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Hello, One of the things that I love about text/gemini is how it's easy to parse, and being it line-based it's also really easy to stream it. When I started working on telescope, the idea of being able to stream content was present in the design of the parser from the first draft -- it also fit nicely with separation in multiple processes (one process does the fetching, another one the rendering, and messages are sent from one proc to the other.) But other than knowing from the code that it should work, I never played with this aspect of text/gemini. Fast forward various months, I've just watched the "Why gemini" video by Tomasino and I got an urge to build something with streaming text. I'm attaching a very, very simple CGI script that streams text/gemini to build an interactive chatroom. The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for gemini applications" gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-gemi ni-applications.gmi and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played with it (yet)) The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the message. (the various `tail -f' gets eventually killed by a SIGPIPE when the client closes the connection and the server closes the script stdout. It could take a while due to the buffering, but can be worked out. I don't know if servers are expected to kill the spawned scripts -- I don't recall anything from the RFC -- but I'm probably wrong. gmid anyway doesn't kill the scripts, it let UNIX do its things with signals. Feature or bug? dunno.) It doesn't require a client certificates, but uses the subject of it if provided. There's a check that can be de-commented to enforce the usage of client certificates. I'm hosting a demo at gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/lets-chat but I don't promise to keep it online. It's a quick-n-dirty script (less than 50 lines of -hopefully- portable sh), probably filled with bugs, wrote only to be a demonstration. I don't want to moderate it if/when people write things. It's really easy to host it locally, for e.g. using gmid (disclaimer: I'm the author) $ gmid -x '*' . from the same directory where you saved the script. It seems to work with Telescope, Tinmop and Lagrange. Kristall and Amfora don't seem to support streaming, or maybe I have an old version. Elpher doesn't stream by design. I hope this inspires someone to build amazing things with the streaming capability of text/gemini. There are a lot of possibilities, for instance capsules like station could stream the feed, or the notification page; it could be better than clients continously refreshing the page. Think of it like some sort of "websockets" but for humans ;) Gemini clients could "ring" or use some other kind of mechanism to inform the user that more content is available in a page (for e.g. Telescope adds a `!' before the tab title.) Cheers, Omar Polo P.S.: this is also a partial reply to the talkat spec. I love seeing what creative things folks are building, and I really hope the best for mbays and their idea (if I got the paternity correctly :P), but I also like the idea of doing these sort of things over gemini. On one hand I don't want to push gemini over its boundaries, on the other I love doing that :)
On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:45 PM Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote: > The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for > gemini applications" > > gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-ge mini-applications.gmi > > and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like > this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know > kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played > with it (yet)) > > The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the > response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail > -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone > sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the > message. Looks familiar! gemini://chat.mozz.us/ (source code) https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/blob/master/examples/chatroom.py - Michael
Michael Lazar <lazar.michael22 at gmail.com> writes: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:45 PM Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote: >> The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for >> gemini applications" >> >> gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-g emini-applications.gmi >> >> and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like >> this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know >> kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played >> with it (yet)) >> >> The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the >> response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail >> -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone >> sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the >> message. > > Looks familiar! > > gemini://chat.mozz.us/ > > (source code) https://github.com/michael-lazar/jetforce/blob/master/examples/chatroom.py > > - Michael Oooouch sorry, I haven't seen that! The idea of a infinite loop of redirects for providing input is really clever, and of course the implementation is way, way better! Thanks for sharing! ;)
I've seen a proof of concept like this a while ago, although I don't remember where or when exactly. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On 2021-10-04 16:40, Michael Lazar wrote: > Looks familiar! > > gemini://chat.mozz.us/ There was another chatroom: gemini://chatroom.yysu.xyz (source code: https://git.sr.ht/~ysu/gemini-chatroom) but it's offline now.
Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> writes: > Hello, > > One of the things that I love about text/gemini is how it's easy to > parse, and being it line-based it's also really easy to stream it. When > I started working on telescope, the idea of being able to stream content > was present in the design of the parser from the first draft -- it also > fit nicely with separation in multiple processes (one process does the > fetching, another one the rendering, and messages are sent from one proc > to the other.) But other than knowing from the code that it should > work, I never played with this aspect of text/gemini. > > Fast forward various months, I've just watched the "Why gemini" video by > Tomasino and I got an urge to build something with streaming text. I'm > attaching a very, very simple CGI script that streams text/gemini to > build an interactive chatroom. > > The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for > gemini applications" > > gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-ge mini-applications.gmi > > and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like > this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know > kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played > with it (yet)) > > The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the > response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail > -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone > sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the > message. > > (the various `tail -f' gets eventually killed by a SIGPIPE when the > client closes the connection and the server closes the script stdout. > It could take a while due to the buffering, but can be worked out. I > don't know if servers are expected to kill the spawned scripts -- I > don't recall anything from the RFC -- but I'm probably wrong. gmid > anyway doesn't kill the scripts, it let UNIX do its things with signals. > Feature or bug? dunno.) > > It doesn't require a client certificates, but uses the subject of it if > provided. There's a check that can be de-commented to enforce the usage > of client certificates. > > I'm hosting a demo at > > gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/lets-chat > Thanks for experimenting with this. Ive been wondering about treating feeds as if it was a REPL, for group projects. Ive never gotten around to IRC but Id like to think people interoperate well in streams with heterogenous coding tricks. > but I don't promise to keep it online. It's a quick-n-dirty script > (less than 50 lines of -hopefully- portable sh), probably filled with > bugs, wrote only to be a demonstration. I don't want to moderate it > if/when people write things. It's really easy to host it locally, for > e.g. using gmid (disclaimer: I'm the author) > > $ gmid -x '*' . > > from the same directory where you saved the script. > > It seems to work with Telescope, Tinmop and Lagrange. Kristall and > Amfora don't seem to support streaming, or maybe I have an old version. > Elpher doesn't stream by design. Its always nice getting titbits comparing the browsers. Are there any good research points which evaluate such things in a tabular way (something I had originally planned but I lost 2 weeks with earache)? > > I hope this inspires someone to build amazing things with the streaming > capability of text/gemini. There are a lot of possibilities, for > instance capsules like station could stream the feed, or the > notification page; it could be better than clients continously > refreshing the page. Think of it like some sort of "websockets" but for > humans ;) > > Gemini clients could "ring" or use some other kind of mechanism to > inform the user that more content is available in a page (for > e.g. Telescope adds a `!' before the tab title.) > A nice touch! > Cheers, > > Omar Polo > > > P.S.: this is also a partial reply to the talkat spec. I love seeing > what creative things folks are building, and I really hope the best for > mbays and their idea (if I got the paternity correctly :P), but I also > like the idea of doing these sort of things over gemini. On one hand I > don't want to push gemini over its boundaries, on the other I love doing > that :) > > > [2. application/octet-stream; lets-chat]... Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy at libre.brussels
I feel that using Gemini for things where other established protocols are better designed for the task is a path to it becoming just another web protocol that tries to do everything, poorly. A much better model might be something like Unix where you have tools that do their thing well and also work together well. Having said that, I wonder if Gemtext would be a decent marking down content in a chat system, such as IRC, or in a great many other places in a Gemini fediverse. Line orientation could be a nice feature there. On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:45 PM Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote: > Hello, > > One of the things that I love about text/gemini is how it's easy to > parse, and being it line-based it's also really easy to stream it. When > I started working on telescope, the idea of being able to stream content > was present in the design of the parser from the first draft -- it also > fit nicely with separation in multiple processes (one process does the > fetching, another one the rendering, and messages are sent from one proc > to the other.) But other than knowing from the code that it should > work, I never played with this aspect of text/gemini. > > Fast forward various months, I've just watched the "Why gemini" video by > Tomasino and I got an urge to build something with streaming text. I'm > attaching a very, very simple CGI script that streams text/gemini to > build an interactive chatroom. > > The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for > gemini applications" > > gemini:// > gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-gemini-applications.gmi > > and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like > this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know > kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played > with it (yet)) > > The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the > response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail > -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone > sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the > message. > > (the various `tail -f' gets eventually killed by a SIGPIPE when the > client closes the connection and the server closes the script stdout. > It could take a while due to the buffering, but can be worked out. I > don't know if servers are expected to kill the spawned scripts -- I > don't recall anything from the RFC -- but I'm probably wrong. gmid > anyway doesn't kill the scripts, it let UNIX do its things with signals. > Feature or bug? dunno.) > > It doesn't require a client certificates, but uses the subject of it if > provided. There's a check that can be de-commented to enforce the usage > of client certificates. > > I'm hosting a demo at > > gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/lets-chat > > but I don't promise to keep it online. It's a quick-n-dirty script > (less than 50 lines of -hopefully- portable sh), probably filled with > bugs, wrote only to be a demonstration. I don't want to moderate it > if/when people write things. It's really easy to host it locally, for > e.g. using gmid (disclaimer: I'm the author) > > $ gmid -x '*' . > > from the same directory where you saved the script. > > It seems to work with Telescope, Tinmop and Lagrange. Kristall and > Amfora don't seem to support streaming, or maybe I have an old version. > Elpher doesn't stream by design. > > I hope this inspires someone to build amazing things with the streaming > capability of text/gemini. There are a lot of possibilities, for > instance capsules like station could stream the feed, or the > notification page; it could be better than clients continously > refreshing the page. Think of it like some sort of "websockets" but for > humans ;) > > Gemini clients could "ring" or use some other kind of mechanism to > inform the user that more content is available in a page (for > e.g. Telescope adds a `!' before the tab title.) > > Cheers, > > Omar Polo > > > P.S.: this is also a partial reply to the talkat spec. I love seeing > what creative things folks are building, and I really hope the best for > mbays and their idea (if I got the paternity correctly :P), but I also > like the idea of doing these sort of things over gemini. On one hand I > don't want to push gemini over its boundaries, on the other I love doing > that :) > > >
Nice man! It is cool looking all you awesome dudes so inspired, let you continue to rock with Gemini!!! Gemini == <3 TGL > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2021 18:10:27 +0200 > From: Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> > To: gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu > Subject: chat over gemini (or, let's play with streaming text) > Message-ID: <87ilycsk8z.fsf at omarpolo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello, > > One of the things that I love about text/gemini is how it's easy to > parse, and being it line-based it's also really easy to stream it. When > I started working on telescope, the idea of being able to stream content > was present in the design of the parser from the first draft -- it also > fit nicely with separation in multiple processes (one process does the > fetching, another one the rendering, and messages are sent from one proc > to the other.) But other than knowing from the code that it should > work, I never played with this aspect of text/gemini. > > Fast forward various months, I've just watched the "Why gemini" video by > Tomasino and I got an urge to build something with streaming text. I'm > attaching a very, very simple CGI script that streams text/gemini to > build an interactive chatroom. > > The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for > gemini applications" > > gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-ge mini-applications.gmi > > and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like > this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know > kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played > with it (yet)) > > The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the > response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail > -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone > sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the > message. > > (the various `tail -f' gets eventually killed by a SIGPIPE when the > client closes the connection and the server closes the script stdout. > It could take a while due to the buffering, but can be worked out. I > don't know if servers are expected to kill the spawned scripts -- I > don't recall anything from the RFC -- but I'm probably wrong. gmid > anyway doesn't kill the scripts, it let UNIX do its things with signals. > Feature or bug? dunno.) > > It doesn't require a client certificates, but uses the subject of it if > provided. There's a check that can be de-commented to enforce the usage > of client certificates. > > I'm hosting a demo at > > gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/lets-chat > > but I don't promise to keep it online. It's a quick-n-dirty script > (less than 50 lines of -hopefully- portable sh), probably filled with > bugs, wrote only to be a demonstration. I don't want to moderate it > if/when people write things. It's really easy to host it locally, for > e.g. using gmid (disclaimer: I'm the author) > > $ gmid -x '*' . > > from the same directory where you saved the script. > > It seems to work with Telescope, Tinmop and Lagrange. Kristall and > Amfora don't seem to support streaming, or maybe I have an old version. > Elpher doesn't stream by design. > > I hope this inspires someone to build amazing things with the streaming > capability of text/gemini. There are a lot of possibilities, for > instance capsules like station could stream the feed, or the > notification page; it could be better than clients continously > refreshing the page. Think of it like some sort of "websockets" but for > humans ;) > > Gemini clients could "ring" or use some other kind of mechanism to > inform the user that more content is available in a page (for > e.g. Telescope adds a `!' before the tab title.) > > Cheers, > > Omar Polo > > > P.S.: this is also a partial reply to the talkat spec. I love seeing > what creative things folks are building, and I really hope the best for > mbays and their idea (if I got the paternity correctly :P), but I also > like the idea of doing these sort of things over gemini. On one hand I > don't want to push gemini over its boundaries, on the other I love doing > that :) > >
Chris McGee <newton688 at gmail.com> writes: > I feel that using Gemini for things where other established protocols are better designed for the task is a path to it becoming just > another web protocol that tries to do everything, poorly. A much better model might be something like Unix where you have tools > that do their thing well and also work together well. I agree with that, there are surely better way to chat! I was mostly trying to get some fun with the streaming ability of text/gemini, and the chat was the first thing I could think of, and also the easiest to implement (it's crap written in less than 50 lines of shell, including blanks.) It's more of a demonstration of how easy and useful streaming pages can be. Thinking of text/gemini as a (possibly) "infinite" stream of lines is an interesting perks of gemini, and can unlock the creation of simple, yet very powerful applications. Think of a fediverse instance over gemini, or maybe station, with a "feed" page that streams toots/posts. Or a news site that streams live events. Now, not every capsule needs to stream pages of course, but I was mostly trying to bring up the point again, and see if it stimulates someone to create something more useful. ;-) > Having said that, I wonder if Gemtext would be a decent marking down content in a chat system, such as IRC, or in a great many > other places in a Gemini fediverse. Line orientation could be a nice feature there. > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:45 PM Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > One of the things that I love about text/gemini is how it's easy to > parse, and being it line-based it's also really easy to stream it. When > I started working on telescope, the idea of being able to stream content > was present in the design of the parser from the first draft -- it also > fit nicely with separation in multiple processes (one process does the > fetching, another one the rendering, and messages are sent from one proc > to the other.) But other than knowing from the code that it should > work, I never played with this aspect of text/gemini. > > Fast forward various months, I've just watched the "Why gemini" video by > Tomasino and I got an urge to build something with streaming text. I'm > attaching a very, very simple CGI script that streams text/gemini to > build an interactive chatroom. > > The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for > gemini applications" > > gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-g emini-applications.gmi > > and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like > this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know > kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played > with it (yet)) > > The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the > response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail > -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone > sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the > message. > > (the various `tail -f' gets eventually killed by a SIGPIPE when the > client closes the connection and the server closes the script stdout. > It could take a while due to the buffering, but can be worked out. I > don't know if servers are expected to kill the spawned scripts -- I > don't recall anything from the RFC -- but I'm probably wrong. gmid > anyway doesn't kill the scripts, it let UNIX do its things with signals. > Feature or bug? dunno.) > > It doesn't require a client certificates, but uses the subject of it if > provided. There's a check that can be de-commented to enforce the usage > of client certificates. > > I'm hosting a demo at > > gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/lets-chat > > but I don't promise to keep it online. It's a quick-n-dirty script > (less than 50 lines of -hopefully- portable sh), probably filled with > bugs, wrote only to be a demonstration. I don't want to moderate it > if/when people write things. It's really easy to host it locally, for > e.g. using gmid (disclaimer: I'm the author) > > $ gmid -x '*' . > > from the same directory where you saved the script. > > It seems to work with Telescope, Tinmop and Lagrange. Kristall and > Amfora don't seem to support streaming, or maybe I have an old version. > Elpher doesn't stream by design. > > I hope this inspires someone to build amazing things with the streaming > capability of text/gemini. There are a lot of possibilities, for > instance capsules like station could stream the feed, or the > notification page; it could be better than clients continously > refreshing the page. Think of it like some sort of "websockets" but for > humans ;) > > Gemini clients could "ring" or use some other kind of mechanism to > inform the user that more content is available in a page (for > e.g. Telescope adds a `!' before the tab title.) > > Cheers, > > Omar Polo > > P.S.: this is also a partial reply to the talkat spec. I love seeing > what creative things folks are building, and I really hope the best for > mbays and their idea (if I got the paternity correctly :P), but I also > like the idea of doing these sort of things over gemini. On one hand I > don't want to push gemini over its boundaries, on the other I love doing > that :)
Sorry, I didn't mean to knock on a fun hacking project. I hope you have fun. :) I can see the draw of gemtext's line orientation in streaming chat systems. Maybe it would be a good fit for IRC also? Chris On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 11:24 AM Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote: > > Chris McGee <newton688 at gmail.com> writes: > > > I feel that using Gemini for things where other established protocols > are better designed for the task is a path to it becoming just > > another web protocol that tries to do everything, poorly. A much better > model might be something like Unix where you have tools > > that do their thing well and also work together well. > > I agree with that, there are surely better way to chat! > > I was mostly trying to get some fun with the streaming ability of > text/gemini, and the chat was the first thing I could think of, and also > the easiest to implement (it's crap written in less than 50 lines of > shell, including blanks.) It's more of a demonstration of how easy and > useful streaming pages can be. > > Thinking of text/gemini as a (possibly) "infinite" stream of lines is an > interesting perks of gemini, and can unlock the creation of simple, yet > very powerful applications. Think of a fediverse instance over gemini, > or maybe station, with a "feed" page that streams toots/posts. Or a > news site that streams live events. > > Now, not every capsule needs to stream pages of course, but I was mostly > trying to bring up the point again, and see if it stimulates someone > to create something more useful. ;-) > > > Having said that, I wonder if Gemtext would be a decent marking down > content in a chat system, such as IRC, or in a great many > > other places in a Gemini fediverse. Line orientation could be a nice > feature there. > > > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:45 PM Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > One of the things that I love about text/gemini is how it's easy to > > parse, and being it line-based it's also really easy to stream it. When > > I started working on telescope, the idea of being able to stream content > > was present in the design of the parser from the first draft -- it also > > fit nicely with separation in multiple processes (one process does the > > fetching, another one the rendering, and messages are sent from one proc > > to the other.) But other than knowing from the code that it should > > work, I never played with this aspect of text/gemini. > > > > Fast forward various months, I've just watched the "Why gemini" video by > > Tomasino and I got an urge to build something with streaming text. I'm > > attaching a very, very simple CGI script that streams text/gemini to > > build an interactive chatroom. > > > > The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for > > gemini applications" > > > > gemini:// > gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for-gemini-applications.gmi > > > > and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like > > this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know > > kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played > > with it (yet)) > > > > The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the > > response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail > > -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone > > sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the > > message. > > > > (the various `tail -f' gets eventually killed by a SIGPIPE when the > > client closes the connection and the server closes the script stdout. > > It could take a while due to the buffering, but can be worked out. I > > don't know if servers are expected to kill the spawned scripts -- I > > don't recall anything from the RFC -- but I'm probably wrong. gmid > > anyway doesn't kill the scripts, it let UNIX do its things with signals. > > Feature or bug? dunno.) > > > > It doesn't require a client certificates, but uses the subject of it if > > provided. There's a check that can be de-commented to enforce the usage > > of client certificates. > > > > I'm hosting a demo at > > > > gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/lets-chat > > > > but I don't promise to keep it online. It's a quick-n-dirty script > > (less than 50 lines of -hopefully- portable sh), probably filled with > > bugs, wrote only to be a demonstration. I don't want to moderate it > > if/when people write things. It's really easy to host it locally, for > > e.g. using gmid (disclaimer: I'm the author) > > > > $ gmid -x '*' . > > > > from the same directory where you saved the script. > > > > It seems to work with Telescope, Tinmop and Lagrange. Kristall and > > Amfora don't seem to support streaming, or maybe I have an old version. > > Elpher doesn't stream by design. > > > > I hope this inspires someone to build amazing things with the streaming > > capability of text/gemini. There are a lot of possibilities, for > > instance capsules like station could stream the feed, or the > > notification page; it could be better than clients continously > > refreshing the page. Think of it like some sort of "websockets" but for > > humans ;) > > > > Gemini clients could "ring" or use some other kind of mechanism to > > inform the user that more content is available in a page (for > > e.g. Telescope adds a `!' before the tab title.) > > > > Cheers, > > > > Omar Polo > > > > P.S.: this is also a partial reply to the talkat spec. I love seeing > > what creative things folks are building, and I really hope the best for > > mbays and their idea (if I got the paternity correctly :P), but I also > > like the idea of doing these sort of things over gemini. On one hand I > > don't want to push gemini over its boundaries, on the other I love doing > > that :) > >
On 2021-10-05 17:15, Omar Polo wrote: > Thinking of text/gemini as a (possibly) "infinite" stream of lines is an > interesting perks of gemini, and can unlock the creation of simple, yet > very powerful applications. Think of a fediverse instance over gemini, > or maybe station, with a "feed" page that streams toots/posts. Or a > news site that streams live events. > > Now, not every capsule needs to stream pages of course, but I was mostly > trying to bring up the point again, and see if it stimulates someone > to create something more useful. ;-) There's a capsule that renders ASCII art using streaming with intentional slowdown to emulate modem-like download speed. gemini://ansi.hrtk.in/
Hi Geminauts, I would add another bunch of words about this... I really watch with admiration anytime someone is pushing the boundaries of the protocol to its limits, I think is smart and useful, I don't feel upset or annoying, on the contrary I think it has the beneficial effect to understand better what we can achieve or what we can not with Gemini. This effort of creativity is totally different to propose changes to the protocols thus I really encourage all the people with such expertise to continue to experiment with Gemini wherever your creativity leads you! A big thank you to each and everyone of you!!! TGL On 10/6/21 7:00 AM, gemini-request at lists.orbitalfox.eu wrote: > Send Gemini mailing list submissions to > gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/listinfo/gemini > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gemini-request at lists.orbitalfox.eu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gemini-owner at lists.orbitalfox.eu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gemini digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: chat over gemini (or, let's play with streaming text) > (Omar Polo) > 2. Re: chat over gemini (or, let's play with streaming text) (mbays) > 3. Re: chat over gemini (or, let's play with streaming text) > (Chris McGee) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2021 17:15:10 +0200 > From: Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> > To: Chris McGee <newton688 at gmail.com> > Cc: gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu > Subject: Re: chat over gemini (or, let's play with streaming text) > Message-ID: <87o883sdej.fsf at omarpolo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Chris McGee <newton688 at gmail.com> writes: > >> I feel that using Gemini for things where other established protocols are better designed for the task is a path to it becoming just >> another web protocol that tries to do everything, poorly. A much better model might be something like Unix where you have tools >> that do their thing well and also work together well. > I agree with that, there are surely better way to chat! > > I was mostly trying to get some fun with the streaming ability of > text/gemini, and the chat was the first thing I could think of, and also > the easiest to implement (it's crap written in less than 50 lines of > shell, including blanks.) It's more of a demonstration of how easy and > useful streaming pages can be. > > Thinking of text/gemini as a (possibly) "infinite" stream of lines is an > interesting perks of gemini, and can unlock the creation of simple, yet > very powerful applications. Think of a fediverse instance over gemini, > or maybe station, with a "feed" page that streams toots/posts. Or a > news site that streams live events. > > Now, not every capsule needs to stream pages of course, but I was mostly > trying to bring up the point again, and see if it stimulates someone > to create something more useful. ;-) > >> Having said that, I wonder if Gemtext would be a decent marking down content in a chat system, such as IRC, or in a great many >> other places in a Gemini fediverse. Line orientation could be a nice feature there. >> >> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:45 PM Omar Polo <op at omarpolo.com> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> One of the things that I love about text/gemini is how it's easy to >> parse, and being it line-based it's also really easy to stream it. When >> I started working on telescope, the idea of being able to stream content >> was present in the design of the parser from the first draft -- it also >> fit nicely with separation in multiple processes (one process does the >> fetching, another one the rendering, and messages are sent from one proc >> to the other.) But other than knowing from the code that it should >> work, I never played with this aspect of text/gemini. >> >> Fast forward various months, I've just watched the "Why gemini" video by >> Tomasino and I got an urge to build something with streaming text. I'm >> attaching a very, very simple CGI script that streams text/gemini to >> build an interactive chatroom. >> >> The idea is similar to the one presented by solderpunk in "A vision for >> gemini applications" >> >> gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/gemlog/a-vision-for -gemini-applications.gmi >> >> and, frankly, I'm quite disappointed nobody has built something like >> this before. (or at least I haven't been able to find it. I know >> kensanata has made some experiments with a mush, but I haven't played >> with it (yet)) >> >> The idea is to provide two pages: one that accepts input via the >> response code 10 and appends to a file, the second is a literal `tail >> -f'. Simple, but it works, and it's immediate. As soon as someone >> sends something, all the clients reading from `tail -f' gets the >> message. >> >> (the various `tail -f' gets eventually killed by a SIGPIPE when the >> client closes the connection and the server closes the script stdout. >> It could take a while due to the buffering, but can be worked out. I >> don't know if servers are expected to kill the spawned scripts -- I >> don't recall anything from the RFC -- but I'm probably wrong. gmid >> anyway doesn't kill the scripts, it let UNIX do its things with signals. >> Feature or bug? dunno.) >> >> It doesn't require a client certificates, but uses the subject of it if >> provided. There's a check that can be de-commented to enforce the usage >> of client certificates. >> >> I'm hosting a demo at >> >> gemini://gemini.omarpolo.com/cgi/lets-chat >> >> but I don't promise to keep it online. It's a quick-n-dirty script >> (less than 50 lines of -hopefully- portable sh), probably filled with >> bugs, wrote only to be a demonstration. I don't want to moderate it >> if/when people write things. It's really easy to host it locally, for >> e.g. using gmid (disclaimer: I'm the author) >> >> $ gmid -x '*' . >> >> from the same directory where you saved the script. >> >> It seems to work with Telescope, Tinmop and Lagrange. Kristall and >> Amfora don't seem to support streaming, or maybe I have an old version. >> Elpher doesn't stream by design. >> >> I hope this inspires someone to build amazing things with the streaming >> capability of text/gemini. There are a lot of possibilities, for >> instance capsules like station could stream the feed, or the >> notification page; it could be better than clients continously >> refreshing the page. Think of it like some sort of "websockets" but for >> humans ;) >> >> Gemini clients could "ring" or use some other kind of mechanism to >> inform the user that more content is available in a page (for >> e.g. Telescope adds a `!' before the tab title.) >> >> Cheers, >> >> Omar Polo >> >> P.S.: this is also a partial reply to the talkat spec. I love seeing >> what creative things folks are building, and I really hope the best for >> mbays and their idea (if I got the paternity correctly :P), but I also >> like the idea of doing these sort of things over gemini. On one hand I >> don't want to push gemini over its boundaries, on the other I love doing >> that :) > >
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