💾 Archived View for gemi.dev › gemini-mailing-list › 000175.gmi captured on 2023-11-04 at 12:30:40. Gemini links have been rewritten to link to archived content
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The tag URI is defined as follow: "tag:" authorityName "," YYYY-MM-DD-date ":" specific [ "#" fragment ] text/gemini document could sport one, to convey authorship. One could turn a gemini url into a tag, e.g.: gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk/cornedbeef/microblogging -via-gemini-a-sketch.gmi ? authorityName: gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk date: 2020-06-01 specific: 5EFkbD fragment: 16:59:06 ? tag:gemini.circumlunar.space/users/solderpunk,2020-06-01:5EFkbD#16:59:06 gemini://gemini.conman.org/gRFC/0002 ? authorityName: gemini.conman.org date: 2019-08-01 specific: 6tXsH fragment: 20:46:12 ? tag:gemini.conman.org,2019-08-01:6tXsH#20:46:12 A MAY, RFC wise.
On Thu, Jun 04, 2020 at 05:31:27AM +0200, Petite Abeille wrote: > The tag URI is defined as follow: > > "tag:" authorityName "," YYYY-MM-DD-date ":" specific [ "#" fragment ] > > text/gemini document could sport one, to convey authorship. > > One could turn a gemini url into a tag, e.g.: I'm not clear what that would gain me as either an author or as a reader? This suggestion, along with anything else involving packing "interesting" data inside URIs is very reminiscent of the semantic web. The idea of the semantic web is that documents are optimised for reading by _computers_, in ways that web documents currently are not. Everything about the existing specification of text/gemini, along with the discussions on this list worrying about how documents look for those who simply "cat" the contents to screen, suggests a desire for a document format that is optimised for _human_ consumption even in its bare form. When meaningful information becomes sandwiched between colons and URL-encoded, or worse base64-encoded, then that's at odds with human readability. For all practical purposes computer assistance is required to extract and interpret the information content, content that could otherwise have been written in English. Taken together your ideas seem like an interesting project, one that could easily operate over the gemini transfer protocol, but such URIs seem at odds with the dominant usage of text/gemini specifically. Cheers, Tom
> On Jun 4, 2020, at 09:24, Thomas Karpiniec <tkarpiniec at icloud.com> wrote: > > I'm not clear what that would gain me as either an author or as a > reader? Our Imagination is the limit :) For example: For one, as both an author & a reader, I like to have text anchored in time. Nothing happen in a vacuum. gemini and text/gemini have no notion of time at all. Instead people tend to compensate by haphazardly leaving contextual breadcrumbs here and there about such basic information: ? gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/cornedbeef/ => microblogging-via-gemini-a-sketch.gmi 2020-06-01 - Microblogging via Gemini: a sketch => replies-in-geminispace.gmi 2020-05-31 - Replies in Geminispace => the-mercury-protocol.gmi 2020-05-26 - The Mercury Protocol => tls-musings.gmi 2020-05-14 - TLS musings => gemini-hearts-atom.gmi 2020-03-20 - Gemini ??s Atom! ? gemini://gemini.conman.org/gRFC/ => 0001 0001 2019-08-01 PROPOSED MIME type and parameters for Gemini Index Files => 0002 0002 2019-08-01 ACCEPTED Resource request format for Gemini => 0003 0003 2019-08-01 PROPOSED Response header to include optional file size in reply => 0004 0004 2019-09-06 PROPOSED Gemini index format The authorship tag gives a simple and consistent way to embed such date in the text/gemini document itself. Furthermore, the tag provides, well, authorship information: who did it? E.g. gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk points to solderpunk actual home at circumlunar. This could be used creatively, by, say, uniquely styling ~solderpunk documents with sigil, color scheme, whatnot: ? gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk ? f01c0885 ? 4028369029 ? ~lapryt-fidseg ? sigil This provides a more stable and granular alternative to the host IP address or certificate. Finally, the tag itself is rather readable on its own: tag:gemini.conman.org <http://gemini.conman.org/>,2019-08-01:gRFC/0002 <gemini://gemini.conman.org/gRFC/0002>#20:46:12 One tag, covering the Who, When, and What, in one fell swoop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ws <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ws>
I?m reminded of the Wiki Mode for RSS? https://communitywiki.org/wiki/WikiModule And that in turn reminds me of the gopher module for feeds I had written, so that we can have one feed for the web and gopher (and why not add Gemini, too). In which case I?d consider the wiki module to be relevant. Anyway, just more stuff to read and only tangentially related to inline tagging of documents. I guess we could just have stuff at the bottom of text files: #author:Alex_Schroeder #date:2020-06-05 #feeds #wiki #metadata #tagging #folksonomy #tags #ohmygodwhenwillitstop At least I do remember the simple tagging convention for phlogs.
> On Jun 4, 2020, at 17:41, Alex Schroeder <alex at alexschroeder.ch> wrote: > > #author:Alex_Schroeder #date:2020-06-05 #feeds #wiki #metadata #tagging #folksonomy #tags #ohmygodwhenwillitstop Ah yes, a boatload of free floating hashes. Which are one space short of being rendered as text/gemini heading lines :D But yes, in that spirit :)
On 6/4/20 3:41 PM, Alex Schroeder wrote: > I?m reminded of the Wiki Mode for RSS? Alex, are you planning on using client certificates to give yourself some sort of write access to your wiki on gemini? I know you wrangled up a "w" item type on gopher so I'm wondering if you could hack something together in that way and still keep auth locked down. I was trying to think of useful things to do with the certs and wikis seem to keep coming up. I'm not sure exactly how editable that would make them, but I figure you must have done a lot of this thinking already to get it working on gopher.
Regarding wikis: yes! But I don?t want to know whether the first and the second edit was made by the same person, and I don?t want to issue any client certificates to users, so they seem to be the wrong tool for me. I?m thinking auth. tokens, or passwords without usernames if you will. On my wiki, that would be the security question I ask first time editors (and often my questions are simply ?please say hello?). More info here: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-04_Gemini_Upload => gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-06-04_Gemini_Upload Gemini Upload Cheers Alex -- Please encrypt your email, if you can.
It was thus said that the Great Petite Abeille once stated: > > > For one, as both an author & a reader, I like to have text anchored in > time. Nothing happen in a vacuum. > > gemini and text/gemini have no notion of time at all. > > Instead people tend to compensate by haphazardly leaving contextual > breadcrumbs here and there about such basic information: > > ? gemini://gemini.conman.org/gRFC/ > => 0001 0001 2019-08-01 PROPOSED MIME type and parameters for Gemini Index Files > => 0002 0002 2019-08-01 ACCEPTED Resource request format for Gemini > => 0003 0003 2019-08-01 PROPOSED Response header to include optional file size in reply > => 0004 0004 2019-09-06 PROPOSED Gemini index format If you check those links, you'll see I already include such metadata in the document itself, not just on the link line. So the above links are not a good example for you here. > The authorship tag gives a simple and consistent way to embed such date in > the text/gemini document itself. In a machine readable way. And the "authorship" is not authorship per se, but the authority. The tag: URI includes either a domain *or* an email address. It's meant to be used for identification of a resource, not authorship of a document. > Furthermore, the tag provides, well, authorship information: who did it? > > E.g. gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk points to solderpunk actual home > at circumlunar. > > This could be used creatively, by, say, uniquely styling ~solderpunk > documents with sigil, color scheme, whatnot: > > ? gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk ? f01c0885 ? 4028369029 ? ~lapryt-fidseg ? sigil > > This provides a more stable and granular alternative to the host IP > address or certificate. > > Finally, the tag itself is rather readable on its own: > > tag:gemini.conman.org <http://gemini.conman.org/>,2019-08-01:gRFC/0002 <gemini://gemini.conman.org/gRFC/0002>#20:46:12 It would help your case if you generated valid tag: URIs, like: tag:gemini.conman.org,2019-08-01:gRFC0001:PROPOSED:Sean%20Conner But that's not easy for humans to parse (they can) because of the encoding and the lack of actual whitespace. -spc
> On Jun 4, 2020, at 23:26, Sean Conner <sean at conman.org> wrote: > > It's meant to be used for identification of a resource, not > authorship of a document. The heavy burden of literalism.
It was thus said that the Great Alex Schroeder once stated: > Regarding wikis: yes! But I don?t want to know whether the first and the > second edit was made by the same person, and I don?t want to issue any > client certificates to users, so they seem to be the wrong tool for me. > I?m thinking auth. tokens, or passwords without usernames if you will. On > my wiki, that would be the security question I ask first time editors (and > often my questions are simply ?please say hello?). I was wondering if you might do this. > More info here: > > https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2020-06-04_Gemini_Upload > => gemini://alexschroeder.ch/2020-06-04_Gemini_Upload Gemini Upload Thankfully, you used a new URL scheme for this, thus keeping this squarely out of the Gemini protocol itself. And the proposal make sense to me. As to the open questions you have, unless you think you would be using the query portion of the URL for something else, why not indicate meta information there? gemini+write://alexschroeder.ch/Test?size=5612&mime=text/markdown&authtoken=foo Or even better (as it too, is part of the spec)---use the ';' to desginate the information on the last part of the path (the ';' is classified as a sub-delimeter and in the earlier URL RFCs was specifically called out as such for the path portion): gemini+write://alexschroeder.ch/Test;size=5612;mime=text/markdown;authtoken=foo That way, you still have the query portion for other uses. -spc
Holy sh*! You're wiki Alex Schroeder? As in Oddmuse? I just put this together. Pleased to meet you! I ran oddmuse for quite some time... (How about we make a wiki:// scheme?) >Message: 1 >Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 22:23:49 +0200 >From: Alex Schroeder <alex at alexschroeder.ch> >To: Gemini application layer protocol <gemini at lists.orbitalfox.eu> >Subject: Re: SPOOFED: Re: authorship tag >Message-ID: <BE39BD3A-2BF1-49D0-A793-6739339AF675 at alexschroeder.ch> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >Regarding wikis: yes! But I don?t want to know whether the first and >the second edit was made by the same person, and I don?t want to issue >any client certificates to users, so they seem to be the wrong tool for >me. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
---
Previous Thread: The Gemini Assigned Protocols Authority (GAPA)