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An interview with Mark Spybey of (among other things) Download's early years. Originally appeared in the May 1996 issue of the now-defunct New Life magazine. Retroactively Mark-Spybey-approved backtranslation from German by me, nopeyright idk when.
d o w n l o a d
Music for the KILL OUT
T o m o r r o w i s
a n o t h e r d a y
Somewhere on the equally dangerous as thin line between industrial, ambient, techno and improvised noise music, Download have released their second album within a year, "The Eyes of Stanley Pain". Stanley Pain is the knife in the back of electronic music. It is the accident waiting to happen, the momentary daze after waking from a deep dream when you're wondering who and where you are. Much like its predecessor "Furnace" with "Microscopic", the album is accompanied by an advance EP, "Sidewinder". An extensive world tour will begin this month in Germany. Stanley Pain is more structured than its predecessor and returns to the edge of the ground once trodden by Skinny Puppy. With Phil Western's and Dwayne Goettel's departure from the band, Download currently consists of killvin Clippetty (Ex-cEvin Key, Ex-Skinny Puppy), Mark Spybey (Ex-zoviet-france), Ken "HiWatt" Marshall (producer for Brian Adams, among other things) with contributions by Anthony "Fu" Valcic (Ex-Moev, numerous productions). Once again, Genesis P.-Orridge (Psychic TV, ex-Throbbing Gristle) acts as a guest singer. Apart from new recordings, Download processed old material from the Subconscious and Shangri-La studios, material still featuring Dwayne. Dwayne was largely responsible for the dark soundscapes, futuristic dreams and electronic nightmares that characterized the preceding album, "Furnace". But his departure is not the only cause of stylistic changes. Anthony Valcic had already created, among other things, the edits of the track "Download" from the "Last Rights" LP, and Ken Marshall was likewise involved in previous Skinny Puppy albums, for example with the voice processing. While enjoying the album, one gets the impression that Download, originally initiated with an entirely different intention, is turning into Skinny Puppy's successor project. Perhaps "The Process" could have sounded similarly innovative, if only external circumstances had been different. From "Base Metal" to "Glassblower", an entire spectrum of interesting feelings and moods is covered, new and dangerous sound worlds and soundscapes are explored [sounds less repetitive in German]. Mark Spybey demonstrates impressively that Ogre is not the only one who can sing disquietingly, moreover, he is capable of operating numerous mysterious acoustic instruments. Our rent-a-journo court propagandist Doctor KILL interviewed him in his single free night between work, studio, and moving.
NL: Ken Marshall and Fu Valcic are listed as band members. Has their contribution to the recording process increased, compared to "Furnace"?
Mark Spybey: Yes. Anthony (Fu) had already mastered "Furnace" and "Microscopic". He will be along for the tour, too. Ken hasn't had anything to do with these albums yet. I believe both of them are crucial to our sound. Ken was such an enthusiastic person, so driving [/motivating?] and experienced, and so was Fu.
NL: Genesis P.-Orridge contributes to three of the tracks on the album. Will you continue cooperating with him in after his move to New York?
MS: This door will always stay open.
NL: What do the words "Puppy Gristle Part 1" mean?
MS: Essentially, this piece was recorded as part of the infamous Skinny Puppy/Psychic TV jams that took place in Malibu during the "Process" sessions. cEvin, Dwayne, Ken, Genesis and Larry Thrasher were involved with this material. The resulting recordings are considered common property.
NL: Will other Puppy Gristles be released on Psychic TV CDs?
MS: Yes, at least that's what Genesis says. However, I assume they will be altered and cut up.
NL: Can you tell us what happened to Download's cover version of the Throbbing Gristle title "United"?
MS: No, not really. We recorded this song last summer and gave the tape to Genesis. I suppose he's still waiting for belated contributions. It's probably going to be some sort of GPO tribute album. I'm proud that I'm allowed to be on it.
NL: Have you seen the film "Charlie's Family"? When can we expect the soundtrack?
MS: Kevin has a demo version of the film, but I haven't seen it. We will be selling the soundtrack as tour merchandise. We probably won't be re-pressing it. The early bird catches the worm.
NL: Why's there a "Pulp Fiction" poster hanging in your studio? Do you like this movie?
MS: We are huge John Travolta fans. It is a fantastic movie. It has also restored my trust in Bruce Willis.
NL: Can you tell us anything about future plans for "The Tear Garden" or "Dead Voices on Air" and what you have to do with them?
MS: The new Tear Garden album "To Be An Angel Blind, The Crippled Soul Divide" is completely finished. Steven Stapleton from "Nurse With Wound" is currently working on the artwork. I have to admit that it is a very lovable album. I jammed together with the boys. It was a funny time. DVoA released three albums within a year, and just finished the fourth. I don't know yet when it will be released. I'm taking a vacation from DVoA for Download. But we will be playing DVoA material live, too.
NL: "The Eyes of Stanley Pain" sounds much more structured and less improvised than "Furnace". Is that due to a greater amount of recycled material from Skinny Puppy sessions, or did you take a different musical approach?
MS: Recycled? That's the wrong term. There really is no Download formula. We changed our approach because we had to. There was no Dwayne or Philth. So we collaborated with Ken Marshall. The album reflects how exactly we felt at the time. Things change. I am proud that we could finish the album and the "Sidewinder" EP in just a month. We work really hard. As always I'm excited about the next phase of our development. There is no recycling. I used some texts I had written eight years ago, but it is still my work. I was simply waiting for the right moment to use them. We are a band that thinks on their feet.
NL: There are a lot more vocals on the new album. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to read the texts yet. Do they have a deeper meaning?
MS: Yes. They reflect our feelings at the time. Most of the texts were written in the studio. The words to "Glassblower" were written in Brian Adams' studio and recorded during the last of our remix nights, two days before the product was mastered by Anthony in Los Angeles. So the words mean a lot to me. I might publish them someday somehow, but not on the inlay. As always I'd prefer it if the listeners came up with their own meaning. That makes the listening process a little more interesting.
NL: Why did you decide to commission Dave McKean with the cover design? Are you satisfied with the result?
MS: That's a long story. We like his work. Our decision was justified in retrospect by the result, which is an impressive piece of art, in perfect harmony with our vision of Stanley and the snake-rocket.
NL: Does the word "KILL" have a deeper meaning to you? Is there anything you could associate with it?
MS: Gunnar? YOU of all people ask me this question? At the recordings for Attalal from Furnace I improvised lyrics straight onto the tape. During playback, we both, Kevin and I, heard me say KILL, and we haven't stopped using that word since then. It is more than just a word. This probably means very little to anyone outside our circle. I also see Download music as more of a "KILL OUT" than a "CHILL OUT". I mean it like this. "Hippy" is a dirty word in my vocabulary. If you want to "chill out", lock yourself in your fridge. I like dangerous music. Challenging, stimulating music, music that won't put me to sleep. And I am anything but a pacifist (another dirty word). I like the idea of questioning and changing traditions, of overcoming limitations or... KILLING!
NL: The music, too, sounds aggressive at times. What is the reason for that? What do you think about violence?
MS: My background, my culture. Anger is a better description, and, as Mark Steward put it: "Anger is holy". Generally, I'm a reserved person. I spend most of the time listening to others. But, to be honest, there is a piece of energy in me that is simply uncontrollable. I can only redirect it into my work and into art. At the moment I am quite content with my life, but there are many things I like to be angry about. Personally I would feel depressed without the desire to resist the things that upset me. I do something with these feelings. That's healthy. It's unhealthy to avoid such things or to spend life in a lake [poss.: sea] of denial [or: refusal], wrapped in comfort [or: convenience].
NL: Can you imagine situations in which you would justify violence or militant [implying: armed] resistance?
MS: Yes, of course. This happens when people are oppressed and nobody listens to them. Sometimes, violence can become pathological, but governments aren't the only institutions that should have the right to justify violence. Did you know that the British government considered Nelson Mandela a terrorist until one year before his release? There are many just cases of using violence.
NL: What do you think about the idea to kill and burn 4.5 million British cattle?
MS: Sounds like the classically stupid British thing to do. Do you want to hear a funny story? About five years ago the British government's spokesman held a press conference to dissolve fears of mad cow disease. He made his two little children eat hamburgers in front of the press and said: "Do you think I'd let my children eat beef if it were the least bit dangerous?" Gulp... he was wrong. He should be locked up for child abuse. I'm a vegetarian for 15 years now, if that answers your question. It really is a classical capitalist solution: We can't sell them. So we'll kill them and burn their bodies to buy new poor animals to raise, abuse and kill. Totally daft.
NL: What do you consider situationism to be? In what way do you identify with [or: are you connected to] situationist artists? Are there situationist elements in your music?
MS: Superficially speaking, situationism was an anti-art movement in the sixties that turned into an important anti-authority [or: governance, etc.] wave through interplay with anarchistic politics. Situationism can be traced back directly to the Parisian student protests of 1968 that turned into a general strike and almost brought about the downfall of the government. I quote: "They originated in a small band of avant-garde artists and intellectuals influenced by Dada, Surrealism and Lettrism. The post-war Lettrist International, which sought to fuse poetry and music and transform the urban landscape, was a direct forerunner of the group who founded the magazine Situationiste Internationale in 1957. At first, they were principally concerned with the "suppression of art", that is to say, they wished like the Dadaists and the Surrealists before them to supersede the categorization of art and culture as separate activities and to transform them into part of everyday life. Like the Lettrists, they were against work and for complete divertissement. Under capitalism, the creativity of most people had become diverted and stifled, and society had been divided into actors and spectators, producers and consumers. The Situationists therefore wanted a different kind of revolution: they wanted the imagination, not a group of men, to seize power, and poetry and art to be made by all. Enough! they declared. To hell with work, to hell with boredom! Create and construct an eternal festival." (DEMANDING THE IMPOSSIBLE: A history of Anarchism, Peter Marshall, 1992 Fontana Press, 77-85 Fulham Palace Road, Hammersmith, London W6 8JB, ISBN 0 00 686245 4, also on the World Wide Web: http://www.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/73 [dead link, see below]. There's certainly a connnection to Beuys' statement: "Everybody is an artist." Situationsim can also be found in the development of punk in England. Malcolm McLaren certainly knew the Situationist International. I must mention the wonderful KLF, who created art from situationist jokes. Peronally, situationism appeals to me on multiple levels. Politically, it is certainly anticapitalist. Artistically, it produces good work! (ironically, of course). I also like it because it had tremendous effects. I've always believed that the liberation and empowerment of the individual were the first step toward change, and this still inspires me. I am hardly hopeless, which hostile bastards such as Margaret Thatcher would expect of me. Download breaks rules with all the means necessary for it. I am sure that there is at least an intrinsic connection between our way of working and political and social movements. But I am not the ideal person to analyze this. I am not a theoretician.
NL: To what extent and in what way is your music influenced by economic and political conditions? Would Download sound different in a different kind of society [literally: a different "society formation"]?
MS: I believe I am first and foremost a product of my English background. The class system in particular determines your attitude to a certain degree. As a member of the working class (yes, I know it sounds strange), and proud of these roots, I have a sense for [/of?] powerlessness and anger. I hope I will always retain this consciousness, because it motivates me. I often notice that people who're socially better off feel attacked when I talk like this. They get defensive and appease: "Be quiet. You're getting aggressive." As the first member of my family who could ever attend a university, and earn a decent living and so on, I have the right to be angry. My father was always working overtime. He had to. He died really young. The truth is that labourers are discouraged from concerning themselves with "unimportant things" like art and education, because the so-called middle class could distinguish itself from them that way for centuries. The result is bad art and disappointed people. Now we've even had the right to work taken from us. But I claim this right! I lived through the Thatcher years as an eligible voter. Do you know how frightened we were when Reagan and Thatcher made plans for Europe as the theatre of a limited nuclear war, when Britain declared war against Argentina and people contemplated introducing compulsory military service? Thatcher was completely hostile, simply evil [a noun in German; a little like "evil itself" or "evil incarnate"]. I believe this has had a huge influence on my generation. Do you know that I have friends who finished school with me in 1977 and haven't had a single regular job since then? Only stupid government classes about finding work. What a chance! A stay in Canada obviously leads to a different dynamic, but, no matter what many people would like to believe [literally: mean to believe (?)], the class problematic [lit.: class question] does, of course, exist here also. It's just buried under a lake [poss.: sea] of political apathy and denial [or: refusal]. I know that my discourse was more about myself than about my music and that I am only one part of Download, but you can't consider the music I make separately from my person. It's all part of the package.
NL: The music sounds mystical in places. Is that deliberate? What do you think about mysticism?
MS: I'm not interested in it at all. Mysticism can be avoided and is superfluous. Something that Download certainly isn't. But I do know that we assimilate ideas from different cultures and genres of music. CAN have already done this successfully with their "Ethnological Forgery Series" of the early 70s. So it's nothing new. But I think I am [better, maybe: my work is] more substantiated there than those who indiscriminately [or: recklessly, ruthlessly] plunder ethnic music. Antonin Artaud said that vocalizations like those I adopt always have their origin in one's own culture, and I can definitely hear that in them. Northern England is a rich place, albeit easily surveyed. Our history is strongly interwoven with that of other cultures, such as the Nordic and Celtic traditions. There're Jewish traditions, too, in my family, if rather far away.
NL: Can you tell me your five least favourite people or groups of people?
MS: I've probably done that already. Here they are: The British conservative government, Margaret Thatcher, the British National Party, bureaucrats, animal abusers.
NL: What is the sociocultural role of music in general and Download in particular? Can music help influence the political conditions beyond mere [/pure] reflection?
MS: A long and far-reaching question. Music is part of the structure of society. It reflects and can aggravate [/be hostile to] or unite people. It can challenge, too, [and] grant access to powerful feelings and influence people. I and Download are interested in this idea. I have never thought of music as diversion, as escape. As an opiate? Never! I believe we can address certain points and touch people. That is the heart of our music. I'm not trying to achieve this in a logical and rational way. We're not supplying people with an explanation as to why we're doing certain things instead of them looking elsewhere and having their own ideas. Basically, we want to advertise [/promote] creativity. I'm not trying to sound grandiose. This creativity is society's true capital. It's not the property of artists or politicians, like Beuys expressed it, but mine and yours, that of ordinary people, nurses, teachers, factory workers, taxi drivers, you and me. That's our right, and to engage in creative activities can influence you and me positively. It can increase our self-confidence [or: awareness?], our awareness of others and of our relationship with the environment. It can lead to new insights, to new ways to perceive. From a social and political point of view these are fairly dangerous concepts. My entire family consists of simple labourers. My father-in-law has fought for the republicans in the Spanish civil war and didn't come from any privileged background. He did not care for the British government and emigrated to Spain, was wounded and risked his life fighting fascism. He loved art and music, but he came from a working class family that had neither money nor work in the 30s and lived through terrible poverty. But his devotion to life and his desire for freedom were strong enough to let him [/compel him to?] fight in a war against fascism, years before the government decided to enter the Second World War. His devotion to social equality and liberty was as important as his love of music and books. I believe there is an important connection here. He rejected the social stereotype that proletarians have no appreciation of art. His own life and those of the people around him were motivated by this love of life. I cannot separate this devotion from that out of which I make music. Every step on this way is made in the knowledge of who I am and which obstructions I am trying to remove.
NL: Which other motives do you have to make music?
MS: To be creative. To work collectively [/collaboratively, communally...] with others. Engage with the listeners. Corrupt the youth!
NL: What happened to the "Legendary Pink Dots" and "Tear Garden"? Why won't they join you for the tour, as was planned?
MS: Our schedules just don't fit together. But it will happen eventually. There is an incredibly strong affinity between everyone involved. I can not imagine going on tour with a nicer group of people.
NL: Can you describe the live show for us? Will it be without blood and splatter?
MS: It will be demanding [/strenuous]. Challenging, I assume. Many stimulating sounds and images. Films by Mark Nugent, who's a filmmaker, a projectionist, from the same sphere from which came people like Derek Jarman, whose work I adored very much. I am happy to say there will be neither blood nor splatter. Go watch Pulp Fiction instead!
NL: What are your plans after the tour?
MS: Tour the USA, Mexico and Japan. Vacation. Record another album. Tour again.
NL: Many thanks for the interview.
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