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APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
July 24, 1991 10 PM ET
Topic: What's New in SoundSmith?
Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM),
Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene)
Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt
(AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS)
Copyright (c) 1991 America Online
All Rights Reserved
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AFL JoyceM Okay...we can get started...and I have a few
comments first... I would like to welcome Jim Maricondo of
DYA....better known to us as DYA Jim. If you haven't
checked out our libraries recently, we have some very fine
(excellent) files that DYA has uploaded to our library
on instrument files for SoundSmith. And we hope in the near
future to have DYA as a link with AMS. Jim, would you like
to make some comments about DYA and their involvement in the
music field...then we can get to the questions and comments.
Thanks.... Jim:
DYA Jim1 Yo Everyone! :) Currently, we have only one music
product actually released, and that is the DYA Instrument
Disk Volume 1 which is now in the library. We are working
on a couple other music projects for the future. We're not
sure on details just yet, but there probably will be another
instrument disk (now that I've gotten some sound cards for
my synthesizer .. finally! :) and I will be finishing Hot
Licks, our soundsmith player utility, sometime soon.
AFC Eddie Sounds great, Jim!!
DYA Jim1 That is basically it for now, but we might change
that or do more stuff in the future :)
AFL JoyceM Jim, want to explain a little more on what the SS
player utility will do?
Mr Toaster Yes, please Jim.
DYA Jim1 The main extra features we are planning for it
(i.e. NEW features we haven't seen implemented anywhere else
.. yet) are several jukebox modes -shuffle, like a CD
player, and modes where you can specifiy a combination of
files and folders to play in random or in sequence - and
some really neat "VU" effects.
Mr Toaster CoooooOOOOOOOOOoooooool!!!
AFL JoyceM VU effects?
DYA Jim1 We're experimenting with several new kinds of new
VU graphical displays. (yah, you know, like how SoundSmith
does it in graphic play mode). But we will be implementing
several other variations, some of which we've come up with
ourselves.
Mr Toaster (How can you have different kinds of VU
meters??!? I'm curious!!)
AFun Ian Like maybe analog ones?
DYA Jim1 (Wait and see! :) It'll be a good surprise. :)
All digital, currently, except for the LED
track/block/position display.
AFL JoyceM Have you all ever thought of making a SS editor
to make inputing songs easier?
Mr Toaster Oooo, can't wait!!
AFL Marty I wondered the same thing Toaster... until I saw
for myself :)
Mr Toaster Good point.
AFA Gene Oooo analog ones! VERY cool idea, Ian! :)
DYA Jim1 We'll have to consider analog now though :) It
hadn't come up yet
Mr Toaster Like the little needle ones?
DYA Jim1 Let's see.. so far a SS editor isn't in our
lineup..Because of other commitments.
AFun Ian Joyce, SS/Zap is coming along... Poor Jim doesn't
need to do an editor! :)
AFL JoyceM Jim, will this be PD, shareware or ?
AFA Gene Especially if you could get the needle-lines to
be "jaggy-less":)
DYA Jim1 Most likely shareware, but nothing is definite
yet :)
AFL JoyceM Great, Ian....was hoping you would speak up )
DYA Jim1 Good Ian :)
AFL JoyceM Jim, Ian do you all feel that the GS music
software is going to get better and more user friendly?
DYA Jim1 Hmm.. that's kinda difficult..
DYA Jim1 Unfortunately, synthLab/MidiSYNTH is on hold
indefinitely, and there are tons of rumors that SoundSmith
will never be completed..
Mr Toaster It seems like it's on the edge of becoming
awesome... except for AppleCo. :(
DYA Jim1 However, I think instrument editing and song
editing will get better.
AFL Marty I've heard those same rumors. Hope they're
wrong.
AFun Ian Well, I'm working on the easier to use side AND
the better side. You'll see.
DYA Jim1 (You should see all the bugs in the MIDIsynth
toolset!) (there are TONS)
AFun Ian I don't like MIDIsynth. I think SoundSmith'll
kill it! Esp. with my editor! :)
AFL Marty Bugs? In Apple software? You're kidding! :)
DYA Jim1 I'd like MIDIsynth IF it was a final bugless
version.
AFC Eddie Soundsmith won't kill it unless it has MIDI
implemented.
AFL JoyceM Agree, Eddie
Mr Toaster True.
AFC Eddie THEN it will kill it.
AFun Ian Eddie, THAT's what I mean! :)
AFC Eddie Oh!
AFL JoyceM Now that we have some excellent music programmers
on AOL, why don't you all get together and write the perfect
music software :)
Mr Toaster Anyone know Huibert's number? What's long
distance to France cost, anyway? :)
AFC Eddie Do you know something we don't Ian?
AFL Marty I suspect that there is a way to input MIDI with
SS...Huibert can't be entering all those songs via the
"spreadsheet". I bet he has a private utility to do that.
DYA Jim1 <-- hates spreadsheets. entered one songsmith
song and then stopped :)
AFun Ian Well, even if Huibert doesn't do MIDI, I am. :)
AFC Eddie If you check our new files library tonite, you'll
find that SLab can sound just as good as soundsmith. With
MIDI.
AFL Marty When, Ian?
DYA Jim1 But you can't fix the bugs in SLab :(
Mr Toaster (Eddie, I thought that was sLab! :)
DYA Jim1 You could disassemble Midisynth and go bug
hunting, but then you couldn't distribute your new version
(yes, I know someone who did this :)
AFL JoyceM Eddie, want to elaborate on your songs more?
AFC Eddie True, Jim!
AFA Gene Actually.... the really BEST soundsmith songs
will probably always be mostly spreadsheet even after MIDI
"is" implemented (if it ever happens)... Cuz SS will always
quantize the MIDI input; i.e. it will not be like the way SL
does it.
AFL Marty (Guess I scared Ian away :)
AFC Eddie I just UL'd two SLab songs using exclusively
SoundSmith instruments.
Mr Toaster AppleCo's lawyer brigade comes in.... yeah.
AFA Gene <just wanted to make that comment :) >
AFC Eddie You're right, Gene.
DYA Jim1 (darn beatle record company)
AFC Eddie The Beatles are right!
AFA Gene Aren't they still selling the Apple MIDI
Interface? Sam Ash still carries 'em.
Mr Toaster What Beatles? They broke up already!
DYA Jim1 I can't figure it out either, Gene.
AFC Eddie Anyway, if you really want to come as close as
you can to MIDI implementation with the sound of Soundsmith,
you can do it with SynthCreate and AudioZap.
DYA Jim1 The only thing that Apple stopped in the way of
music, was synthlab. They still are updating their MIDI
manager tools for the GS and Mac, they still sell the MIDI
interface, but they're not doing slab/msynth anymore.
AFL JoyceM Jim, how difficult would it be to write a utility
for SS to allow MIDI input?
Mr Toaster Who seriously believes that Apple Records is
going to sue AppleInc? Huh?
DYA Jim1 It's not a light undertaking..
AFC Eddie I do.
Mr Toaster C'mon, they'd never win the case...it'd cost 'em
too much money and it wouldn't be worth it in the end.
DYA Jim1 It entails a lot of doing..I wonder how Ian is
gonna implement it..
AFL JoyceM A MIDI input utility would probably take SL out
of the music market. BTW, Mark Cecys still gets on
AOL....leave him notes about upgrading the Tool35.
DYA Jim1 I heard at KFest that Mark Cecys quit the A2
division.
AFA Gene IMO the hardest part would be to decide how to
split all the MIDI keypresses into SS tracks... like someone
can hit 8 keys at once really easily.
AFL JoyceM I had heard that too about Mark...but he has been
working on the Mac side soon after SL was released.
DYA Jim1 Yeah, I believe Mark switched to Mac :(
AFA Gene I'm not surprised, yet it's funny cuz mark was
originally from Ensoniq.
DYA Jim1 Yeah, I thought the same thing.. he dumped the
Ensoniq. What people do to go work on the Mac side :(.
The original main author of HCGS transferred over to the Mac
side and then got laid off.
AFA Gene Who knows, maybe we'll see an EPS 16+ in the next
Mac. :)
AFL JoyceM What is so sad about this...is that Apple doesn't
care or take pride in what they release when it is buggy!
AFC Eddie That would be unbelievable, Gene!
DYA Jim1 Jim Mensch transferred over to the Mac side right
in the middle of writing the Animation Toolkit. So wonder
there's anyone left
AFA Gene Ed, there already exists such a card... the name
slips me at the moment, but that's basically what it is.
AFC Eddie For the Mac?
AFA Gene Yep. So who knows, Apple might just make it
built-in. ?
AFC Eddie Hmmmm, how about software support for it?
AFA Gene (Apple doesn't put out the card, btw. The people
in MMS seem to love it.)
Mr Toaster Hee hee hee... some friends of mine and I built a
digitizer for an IBM. We got everything soldered together,
all the parts in the right places...Tested it out... It's a
hunk o' junk.
AFL JoyceM Eddie, what to discuss how you did the SS
instruments into SL?
AFL JoyceM The IBM or your board, Toaster?
Mr Toaster I think the Radio Shack guy gave us the wrong
chips.
AFC Eddie Sure...
Mr Toaster Both! :) Naah, the board. (I know, excuses,
excuses...)
AFC Eddie We took some instruments from a couple of SS
songs we really liked....Then loaded 'em into Audiozap for
tweaking and size control, which is really essential for
SynthCreate. Then, used Synthcreate to make a couple of new
wave files. We tried out a bunch of MIDI sequences
converted with Midimate...and Voila!
AFL Marty I'd like to know what Jim means when he says the
instruments are "tuned" to the FUN instruments.
DYA Jim1 They're not tuned to the FUN instruments, they're
tuned to each other and to the keyboards they were sampled
from.
AFL Marty My mistake. What does that mean though?
DYA Jim1 So, a G#4 played by SoundSmith should sound the
same (excluding the degradation of quality) as a G#4 in the
same instrument on the synthesizer it was digitized off of.
Mr Toaster Hmmm, good idea.
AFL Marty Okay... that makes it clear. Thanks.
AFA Gene Yep, Jim, I had to do the same thing when I
digitized my own custom SS insts. (compensating for tuning i
mean)
DYA Jim1 Yeah, that was a pain :)
AFL Marty How hard was it to accomplish (the tuning)?
DYA Jim1 You'll really have to ask Matt.. BUT, he did a
LOT of work in experimenting using a lot of trial and error
I believe in finding the proper settings to digitize and
playback at. It wasn't easy. The tuning problem is what
pushed back the release of the disk about 4-6 months.
Mr Toaster Sounds like a real pain to me.
AFA Gene I did it by ear, so I guess it's just a pain in
the butt. To me it was like tuning a piano.
AFL Marty I figured it wasn't easy.
DYA Jim1 Matt has a great ear for this kinda stuff though
:) He's done a bunch of soundSmith songs off of songs on
tapes of his, with no sheet music and such :)
AFC Eddie Jim, I'd like to get together with you for some
hints, as I'd like to create some insts with the sounds from
my Proteus.
DYA Jim1 Ahh, a Proteus. (I just got a "Proteus/XR
Impressions" soundcard for my D70 :)
AFL Marty I know that disk represents a lot of work.
Hopefully folks will appreciate that (and maybe send money
:)
DYA Jim1 Perhaps you, I, and Matt could meet together
sometime and talk about it. I hope so Marty :)
AFC Eddie Soon you may hear SLab songs with the DYA insts!
AFL Marty You know, when you release something like an
instrument disk there's always the danger that folks will
think you did it in an afternoon.
DYA Jim1 good point.
AFL Marty Now that it's in the transcript they'll know
better. :)
DYA Jim1 Maybe we should add something like "Four months
in the making" or however long it took (I forget :)
AFL Marty I really do appreciate all the work it took. (My
favorite sound, by the way, is Milk Bubbles :) That's the
perfect name for that sound.
AFA Gene Yeah, reminds me of when ultima 5 came out...
"six man-years in the making" :)
AFL Marty Has anyone created any tunes with the new
instrument disk?
DYA Jim1 The DYA Sampler song in the library demonstrates
some of the sounds from a very beta (not tuned very well)
version of the disk. But that's about all I know of so far.
AFL Marty Maybe a contest would generate interest (just
thinking out loud)
AFC Eddie Good idea!
AFL Marty I'll work on some details and EMail them to you.
AFC SteveB (I have a music question for after the chat :)
AFL Marty No Steve... I will NOT sing "Feelings".
AFC Eddie Shoot, Steve!
AFC SteveB Ok! Are there any freeware/shareware Music Studio
players? Or any util. that will let you listen to MS songs?
AFC Eddie I think there is one, Steve.
AFC Eddie Not sure if it's in our library or not, but I can
check... So, you're all gonna check out my new Soundsmith
SLab tunes, right?
AFL Marty Coitenly
Mr Toaster I just saw the Amiga MOD converter in your
library. One o' my roomies has an Amiga w/ lots o' mods.
I'll get some when he comes back to Houston in the fall
AFC Eddie Steve, I know I have one somewhere. I'll look
for it for you!
AFC SteveB Thanks Eddie! :)
AFL JoyceM Great news for me...just got accepted to sell my
paintings in a top gallery here in Denver :)
AFL Marty Congratulations!
AFC Eddie Fantastic, Joyce!!!!!!!!
AFL JoyceM And they will appear in a 1992 Calendar :)...am
so excited :)
AFC SteveB ()()()() Joyce!
AFC Eddie WOW, now you can trade in that D-5 for a Korg T1!
AFL JoyceM Don't I wish...got to learn the D-5 first :)
DYA Jim1 LOL :) T1's rule :)
AFA Gene Congrats Joyce! :)
DYA Jim1 too bad they're so damn expensive :)
DYA Jim1 Congrats
AFL JoyceM Thanks guys....
AFL Marty How expensive?
Mr Toaster WOW Joyce!!! What great news!!!!
DYA Jim1 the lowest model - T3 - I've seen for about $2700
for the keyboard
AFC Eddie List $5669 Marty.
AFL Marty ::faint::
DYA Jim1 (ahh, thanks Eddie :)
AFL JoyceM Good grief....picking self off the floor!!
DYA Jim1 it sounds great though :)
AFL Marty It better!
AFL JoyceM You can buy a car for that...almost!
AFC Eddie But, that's just list.
Mr Toaster Everything but the power door locks! LOL!
AFA Gene Marty keeps having major medical problems at AMS
chats. :)
AFL JoyceM Fainting seems to be one of those medical
problems.
AFC Eddie It's still rather humid here in CT where Marty
and I live. So, fainting can happen!
DYA Jim1 <-- lives in ct
AFL Marty Speaking of which...
AFC Eddie Really, Jim?
AFL Marty We have to get together sometime soon Eddie.
AFC Eddie yes!
DYA Jim1 Yep :)
AFC Eddie With Jim, too! Where,Jim?
AFL Marty Jim's in Trumbull.
AFC Eddie Just there today!
AFL JoyceM I must be the only AOL member who lives out west!
or so it seems.
AFA Gene Jim's from the northeast? I always pictured Jim
as being a California dude :)
AFL Marty But you... I could open my window and yell out to
you, Ed. :)
Mr Toaster Is Houston West?
AFC Eddie Joyce, you add balance.
DYA Jim1 LOL Gene :)
AFL JoyceM Jim...want to thank you and DYA for coming
tonight...most enlightening and we look forward to Hot
Licks...
AFC Eddie And thanks for the great instrument disk!!!
AFL JoyceM Oh, and that too...great!
DYA Jim1 Thanks for the invitation Joyce :) Thanks
everyone! :)
AFL Marty Hot Licks is awesome!
AFL JoyceM Thank you!
AFL JoyceM ---------------log off------------