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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
December 13, 1988 10:00 pm Eastern
Topic: Pascal and C
Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim)
AFL Jim Looks like a nice small group tonight...
JSchober Ummm... not too much.... yup, Jim...
AFL Tom Cozy.
AFL Jim The topic is Pascal and C, Shadow, but we rarely stick to it.
AFA Gary J I haven't noticed our banner yet, though.
AFL Jim We'll see if Santa-Eileen programmed one for us.
JSchober 'tain't a banner... 'tis a wyrm... (pronounced: wyrm...)
Shadow100 Apple pascal or TML(other) pascal?
JSchober Hi, Airship.
Dave Lyons As long as we're not on topic yet, somebody please explain to me
why "lowest
AFL Jim Either, Both
Airship Hi everybody.
AFA Gary J Hi Airship
Dave Lyons common denomonator" in Life means something _minimal_, while w/
fractions it
ScottG25 Howdy air!
JSchober Hi Parik, Dennis!
Dave Lyons means something that is _bigger_than a collection of things,
actually having
ScottG25 Howdy Parik!
Dave Lyons each of them as a _factor_?
Airship Hmmmmm....sounds deep...
JSchober Errr.... <bzzzzzt!> <Dave's Q just fizzled what was left of my
brain..........>
AFA Parik Hiya all. I'm doing some work outside the house, so don't pay
attention to me
AFA Parik :-)
AFA Gary J Hmmm. Sounds like a question you should program a computer to
figure out...
AFA Gary J :)
JSchober :) Gary...
AFL Jim 42
Dave Lyons :)
AFL Jim Hi Dennis
AFL Jim Hi Parik
DennisDoms Hi, all.
AFL Jim We're all here, so let's get started.
JSchober All?? Ok, welllll... :)
AFL Jim Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum. Tonight's scheduled
topic is Pascal
JSchober (yo Matt!)
AFL Jim and C. I'm Jim Luther, the Forum Leader here and Gary Jacobson,
AFA Gary J, is
AFL Jim the Forum Assistant for this forum.
AFL Jim Poke? That's BASIC?
AFA Parik (Hi Matt & John)
JSchober :) Jim...
JSchober (hi John)
AFA Gary J (Just what I was thinking!)
AFL Jim Hi Matt, John
AFL Jim Obviously, the banners *don
AFL Jim *don't* come from Quantums technical department.
AFA Gary J :)
JSchober (hi, Mike)
Dave Lyons Yeah, you can write a Poke in either Pascal or C, Jim :)
AFL Jim Aren't pointers great?
JSchober (howdy, Steve...)
Dave Lyons void Poke(addr,val) char *addr; char val; { *addr = val; } :-)
St SteveW Hiya Joe
AFL Jim About the only new news I have in the Apple II Pascal/C world is
that TML,
JSchober (hi, John)...
AFL Jim the Byte Works and Apple are working together to standardize the
Pascal
AFL Jim interfaces to the IIGS Toolbox. There will be some changes to both
TML and ORCA
JSchober (hi Cecil)
CecilFret Hi guys (and gals?)
AFL Jim Pascal as a result, but it should make writing books, magazine
articles, etc.
AFL Jim a lot easier.
AFL Jim Hi Cecil, John, St...
St SteveW Hi Jim
AFL Jim Hi Sue
JSchober (hi, Sue...)
SueFox Hi Jim
SueFox Hi All
AFL Jim Pascal interface standards should also make it possible for Apple
to publish
AFL Jim more technical information using Pascal examples.
AFL Jim Tom, Matt, do either of you know how far along these standards
are?
JSchober (hi, Jack!)
Matt DTS I'll pass that one to Tom.
AFL Jack hiya Joe :)
AFL Tom Thanks, Matt. No, I am not sure. I should pass that one on to
Tim Swihart,
AFL Tom but he's not here!
CecilFret I know I jumped in late, but how about standards for C??????
also
AFL Tom And about the examples, Jim, I'll leave a hint that you have a
good idea about examples.
AFL Jim The first I heard of it was at the Apple Spring Developer's
Conference last
AFL Jim April.
AFL Jim also what, Cecil?
AFL Jim (Hi Steve)
Airship What's the learning curve like for C?
CecilFret The also was an afterthought. My point is, give C equal time with
respec to
CecilFret pascal
CecilFret Airship, what other languages do you know?
AFL Jim What language(s) do you know already, Airship?
AFL Jim :)
AFL Tom (Is there an echo in here?)
AFL Jim ...in here?)
Airship Very experience in BASIC, dabble in Pascal, intermediate 65c02.
JSchober ...in here?) ...here?) ...here?)
CecilFret No echo, just people from Missoure thinking alike jus like great
minds:)
JSchober (hi Hal)
AFA Gary J GMTA
Dave Lyons You shouldn't have much trouble w/ C, then...'course, a "lint"
utility would
CecilFret Airship, the Pascal people will laugh me right off the screen,
however....
AFL Jim Going from Pascal to C was very easy for me Airship
Dave Lyons help a lot, since it would catch a lot of errors that aren't
"really" errors
CecilFret I have dabbled in both languages and found C to follow Pascall
easily.
Dave Lyons as far as the compiler's concerned.
AFL Jim (Hello HalC2)
CecilFret Gotta watch C though. As long as bracketes {} match, C will figure
out somethin
CecilFret to do with it
HalC2 Hello Jim
Matt DTS There's currently more of a need for standards since there are two
Pascal...
Dave Lyons :) Yeah, making a punctuation error in C usually results in a
valid programs
Matt DTS ...compilers out there, but only one C compiler (from Apple).
Dave Lyons (er...program) that doesn't do what you wanted.
Airship Is there a C comiler other than APW currently available?
AFA Gary J So far..Matt.
JSchober (hi, Doc)
HalC2 I am looking for a good Pascal or C compiler for the AppleII. I
have APWC
HalC2 and TML Pascal for my IIGS
HalC2 Any suggestions?
MikeJK ORCA C is due early next year.
AFL Jim Hal: The only one you don't have is ORCA/Pascal
AFA Gary J Hal, are you talking about Pascal or C for a NON IIGS Apple II?
Dave Lyons HalC2, you're looking for a non-GS C compiler?
HalC2 But I need these to support the older IIe and IIc
Airship I've heard APW can be pretty overwelming unless you're pretty
experienced.
JSchober (hi, Ksuther... EGADS! 20!!)
Dave Lyons (echo, echo...)
Doc Banks How different will ORCA C be from APW C, which I'm using now?
AFL Jim Hi Kathryn
KSUTHER Hello folks.
AFA Gary J Q = Hal
THE GIBBER It won't be too much different, look at the differences in apw and
orca/m ;)
AFL Jim Mike Westerfield has stated that ORCA/C will be very compatible
with APW/C
CecilFret Uhoh the boss just showed up!!!. HI msk
CecilFret Airship, I don't think APW is all that bad. After all, the IIgs
is not really
KSUTHER Hello Tractor man
CecilFret for beginners.
AFL Jim Hal: I believe that one of the 2 Pascal compilers for the //e is
now gone, tat
Doc Banks I'm brand new to C, and I like challenges, so I haven't found APW
C too bad.
AFL Jim that is Kyan Pascal. Apple Pascal is still available from APDA.
Airship Can you run APW on a 1.25 meg machine with one 3.5 drive (& a
5.25)?
Matt DTS If you enjoy personal frustration, yes.
AFL Jim :)
CecilFret Not the best but possible Airship. As long as you have APW on 3.5
and source
Matt DTS Maybe.
CecilFret on 5.25"
THE GIBBER LOL
HalC2 Airship, I have. I know have 2 of each and thats not enough.
JSchober (hi, Ralfy) LOL Matt...
JSchober (hi Fuzzzzy)
Ralfy Hi. Lots of people here.
THE GIBBER I got frustrated with 2 3.5's and I bought a 60 meg hd for my
workshop
Fuzzzzy Hi.
Airship Hmmmm...sounds like the best thing to do is wait for Orca/C or the
like.
JSchober :) John... agreed.... HD's are inifinitely nicer than floppies,
especially for
JSchober development... (and BBS'es.. %)
HalC2 Gibber, who made the drive?
AFL Jim Hal: The only C I know of for the //e is Manx Aztec C which seemed
to be very
AFA Parik Not when they die...
THE GIBBER Rodime
JSchober :) Parik...
AFL Jim slow last time I saw it.
Fuzzzzy Wasn't there a Hippo C for the //?
Airship I've got Aztec C...haven't got too far into it yet but it seems to
be a good...
DennisDoms That was WSM (Hippo C)...they're gone, too. (sigh)
Airship system to learn the fundamentals on.
AFL Jim Oh yeah... there's Small-C from the Byte Works, but it is more of
a learning
CecilFret There used to be a good small C available from out outfit in
Arizona. I don't
AFL Jim tool. Not for writing applications.
CecilFret know if they are still in business.
JSchober (hi Charles)
BIG LYFORD Hello Joe
AFL Jim Hi Charles
BIG LYFORD Hi All
BIG LYFORD What's up?
KSUTHER It would be nice to have a comparative review of the different C's
out there.
Airship For learning C it looks like Manx Apprentice C is hard to beat
(only $20!).
HalC2 Thanks for the C compiler suggestions.
KSUTHER Anyone interested in tackling this project for Call -A.P.P.L.E.
CecilFret Hey all you C people, K Suther made a good point. Let me add my
two bits
Matt DTS (That would be the solicited rate, guys! Better jump!)
AFL Jim Does *anyone* know what happened to Kyan Software?
CecilFret and ask you experts to put together some articles on C
Dave Lyons :)
AFL Jim :) Matt
Dave Lyons (My :) was for Matt, too)
Matt DTS (Don't shoot me, Kathryn... :-)
KSUTHER :- humm haven't learned that one yet.
BIG LYFORD I looked at C. It makes no sense. Needed: a book comparing BASIC
to C, line by
BIG LYFORD line
Matt DTS It's one where the) serves two purposes. ASCII economy.
AFL Jim For those you you who haven't been introduced, Cecil and Kathryn
are the editor
AFL Jim and technical editor of Call-A.P.P.L.E. magazine.
Dave Lyons Big L, have you done anything with Pascal? Makes a much easier
comparison.
JSchober I know Cecil, but hi, Kathryn. :)
Dave Lyons A lot of things in C have no parallels in BASIC (local variables,
parameter
Dave Lyons passing, etc.).
BIG LYFORD No. I seem stuck on Applesoft.
CecilFret Uh Oh Jschober, how did we meet
Matt DTS I have this book from Compute! (don't laugh) called "From BASIC to
C"...
JSchober Errr.... well, here... :)
Matt DTS ...which does a fairly decent job of leveraging off BASIC
knowledge...
Matt DTS ...to teach C concepts and practices.
Fuzzzzy Matt: Haha
CecilFret Comparing line by line C to BASIC is not all that straightforward
Big Lyford
Doc Banks I found Schildt's Advanced C (1st ed.) to be helpful in making
conversion...
Doc Banks from BASIC to C.
Airship That's the problem I had with C...looks pretty cryptic.
JSchober Ummm... if anyone sent me a FN that I didn't answer... sorry....
if it was
JSchober important, send it again s'il vous plait....
AFL Jim I learned from the book, "Programming in C" by Stephen Kochan
JSchober But ditto, Airship. I have this funny feeling a C program is all
commented
THE GIBBER Try programming when your Dyslexic..... It is murder when
debugging
JSchober out.........
AFA Parik (while Joe's swamped with FNs, lets all move to another room!
:)
Doc Banks Bye, folks :)
CecilFret C does not have to be cryptic Airship.
JSchober :PPPP Parik...
AFA Parik Bye Doc!
AFA Gary J Bye Doc.
AFL Jim Bye Doc
AFA Parik Its extremely cryptic when you're reading the moniter upside
down...
Dave Lyons It's more _fun_ when it's cryptic, though :)
JSchober (hi Jeff)
BIG LYFORD There's an interesting idea " more fun if it's cryptic"
AFL Jim char (*(*x()) []) ()
Dave Lyons Well, it's fun when you're _writing_ cryptic code, but not when
you're trying
Dave Lyons to read somebody else's, although that's good practice for writing
more of
BIG LYFORD I think it's more effective if it's understandable and useable.
JSchober Riiiight Jim...
Dave Lyons your own later.
AFA Gary J Looks more like line noise than program logic.
St SteveW That was a pretty cryptic message in its own right, Dave :)
JSchober :)
Dave Lyons Are you going to decode that declaration for us, Jim?
AFA Gary J :)
Dave Lyons (There's a utility on some Unix systems that will actually do
that, into
AFL Jim :)
AFA Parik Looks like something LaPub would serve when DTS is Serving...
Dave Lyons English description...called 'cdecl' I think.)
JSchober hehehehehehehe
AFA Gary J LOL, Parik!
CecilFret Translates to x=x doesn't it Jim?
Ralfy Or x<>x?
AFL Jim x: function returning pointer to array [] of pointer to function
returning char
AFL Jim :)
JSchober Say WHAT?!
CecilFret Airship, one thing about C or Pascal is their structured nature.
The new
AFA Gary J :)
CecilFret BASICS for the IIgs are starting to introduce structured
programming
CecilFret capabilities.
Dave Lyons Gee, I was trying to work it out myself :( :-)
AFA Parik (lets go to LaPub and try to serve the drink Jim concocted :)
AFL Jim The IIGS Toolbox is much easier to program with C or Pascal
(compared to BASIC)
Dave Lyons Sure Joe, haven't you ever needed a data type like that? :)
JSchober ::gulp:: <faint>
CecilFret For sure JIM!
Dave Lyons Ralfy, "<>" isn't part of C...try "!=" instead! :)
JSchober Yeah, Dave... remind me to include THAT in UPD!! (re-starting work
on it in
JSchober three days......)
AFL Jim Pascal and C both let you define your own data structures. With
IIGS BASIC
BIG LYFORD I guess I'll stick with Applesoft.
Airship Yeh...The structured Basic's are great...I'm really attracted to
more...
Ralfy My basic - you C.
Airship structured langs. like Pascal or C... but sometimes they're like
working...
AFA Parik :) Ralfy
AFL Jim languages, you must either use some kind of "glue" library
routines to access
Ralfy Read me for my
Dave Lyons Big L, please don't let Jim's example scare you away from C: it's
NOT a
Airship with a toolbox with too many tools...you've got to weed out those
you need.
AFL Jim the toolbox or load the toobox call's parameters into an array
(Micol).
Dave Lyons typical data strucutre. In general it's easier to do things with
structures
CecilFret Airship, Lichty and Eyes have a new book coming out soon.
Although it uses
Dave Lyons and arrays than in BASIC, since you can give every type a nice
name and
Dave Lyons get at pieces of structures by name, etc.
CecilFret assembly language, it is a good book to get to put some order into
the toolbox
AFL Jim Cecil, right!
CecilFret Have you seen it JIM?
AFL Jim Yes
CecilFret I reviewed it in February
CecilFret In final form JIM?
AFA Gary J February? And it's not out yet?
AFL Jim I didn't get to until November :(
Ralfy Goodnight all....
CecilFret I.E. bookstore?
AFA Parik Night Ralfy!
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Ralph
JSchober Night, Ralfy!
Airship I'll look forward to it...
BIG LYFORD Night, Jon-Boy
AFL Jim I've got a quick question for you all....
MikeJK h
JSchober GA Jim..... :)
CecilFret ga jim
Airship Speaking of arrays, I found TML BASIC has real problems when
handling arrays.
AFL Jim With APW's ability to add libraries to languages, what kind of
library modules
AFL Jim would you like to see available for C and Pascal?
JeffDWoods That beats Integer problems, Airship! ;)
JSchober Ummm... biased answer: something similar to Morgan's
ModemWorks...
Airship It has some weird quirks with integers too.:(
AFL Jim I've already suggested that to Morgan, Joe.
JSchober Oh. :)
CecilFret That's a biggy Jim.
JeffDWoods Jim, do you mean applications for libraries or implementation? (I
have Orca.)
AFL Jim I mean ready to use libraries of routines.
AFL Jim (something like mini-toolboxes)
JeffDWoods Do you mean libraries like the system loader uses? I didn't think
the linker
JeffDWoods supported them yet.
Airship Clearly defined routines for handling graphics larger than the
screen would...
AFA Parik (dunno what a library is :) but how about some better text
routines...windows
AFA Parik and such.
AFL Jim Some of the programming magazines (for non-Apple machines) seem to
have lots
Dave Lyons Modules like Jim's talking about could be regular libraries _or_
run-time
Airship be nice along with a versatile screen dump library.
Dave Lyons libraries. I'm not sure whether they're supported yet or not.
(As far as I
Dave Lyons know they're not.)
AFL Jim of "toolkits" available for Turbo Pascal (for example)
JSchober Parik... a library is just a correction of procedures, if you're
in Pascal
JSchober terms. :)
JSchober argh... correction = collection.
Dave Lyons Quickdraw II can already handle bigger-than-screen graphics,
Airship.
JeffDWoods Automatic memory or disk based sorts (memory when available, disk
otherwise)
CecilFret Screen dump to where Airship? File or Printer?
AFA Parik Doesn't help me joe, but don't bother. :)
Matt DTS The MPW IIgs Linker (LinkIIgs) will create run-time libraries.
JSchober :)
Dave Lyons Will the GS loader load them, Matt?
Airship Printer...the current routines I use leave my graphics looking
chunky.
Matt DTS Yup.
Matt DTS (if it doesn't, it's a bug)
THE GIBBER Joe, when aer uoy gniog to learn ot epyt?????
Airship Yeh, QD II is nice, but its taking me forever to figure out the
new terminology
JeffDWoods Has anybody (we know of) used run-time libraries yet?
JSchober I dunno.... one day, John... ;)_
JSchober <see?!>
ScottG25 This is off the subject, but I'd like to see more programs that
make...
CecilFret Airship, the November issue of Call -A.P.P.L.E. has a screen to
printer CDA
CecilFret with all the necessary code from Sandy Mossberg
SEGlass Libraries don't have to be run time to be useful.
ScottG25 programming the user interface easier... such as layout, actions,
etc..more
AFA Gary J It works too, Cecil. (I tried it :)
Airship I like dump routines like Triple Dump were I can control the
quality.
JeffDWoods But run-time libraries allow the code to be shared which saves
memory & disk.
CecilFret For sure AFA Gary J. I modifed it to dump screen to text file.
AFL Jim Linkable libraries are very useful - look at ORCA/M for an
example.
Airship Cecil...text screen or SHR screen?
JSchober (hi Lance!)
AFA Gary J Exactly my idea, Cecil! :)
CecilFret Text screen Airship. Code could be easily modifed tohandle SHR
screen
CecilFret I think!!!
SEGlass Run-time libraries save disk space, but not necessarily space in
memory.
CecilFret Tain't easy AFA Gary
ScottG25 on the lines of a working thing, vice that dialog thing that I can
never get to
ScottG25 run...
CecilFret Amen SEGlass!!!!!
Airship Yeh, I've seen a lot of text screen dumpers.
JeffDWoods Steve, memory is saved if two or more routines (like NDAs) are
using the lib.
Airship I'd like to set my pront dumps up so one pixel on the screen give
one on the...
Airship printer.
JeffDWoods Aren't they?
SEGlass Only if the two things are in memory at the same time. Not a
likely
SEGlass occurance. Moreover, if you ship an application,
SEGlass you will have to provide a copy of the run time library. If you
ship
SEGlass another application you will have to ship another copy of the run
time
SEGlass library. You will also make certain that your users know how to
move
SEGlass things to a hard disk so that the libraries can be found. Only
SEGlass then will you start saving disk space.
JSchober (ok, night, Charles!)
BIG LYFORD Bye All.
SEGlass The cost of that space is potential compatibility problems if
there are ever
AFL Jim The Toolboxes are a kind of library...
AFA Parik Night Big Lyford!
SEGlass more than one copy of the library around. Believe me I know
about
SEGlass compatibility problems.
JeffDWoods But for multi-program applications, like NDAs etc., they would be
nice.
Matt DTS Only if the user had a large number of NDAs and programs which all
used the...
SEGlass No doubt they can be useful. Just take care in deciding when it
is
SEGlass right to use them.
Matt DTS ...same RTL, Jeff. Otherwise multiple RTLs could clog the 2/
directory.
SEGlass A good example would be if you were to sell a collection of DAs
and
JeffDWoods Also, for commercial Apps they have disadvantages, but they could
be moved into
SEGlass wanted to share code.
JeffDWoods the program file by changing to linked libs before shipping.
AFL Jim That's exactly what Kyan did with their Code Optimizer package for
Kyan Pascal.
Dave Lyons (Isn't acronym double-duty Fun? RTL = return from subroutine
long; run-time
Dave Lyons library; NDA = New Desk Accessory; nondisclosure agreement.
More?)
JSchober :) Dave...
AFL Jim They linked only the routines needed by your application into the
executable
AFL Jim file.
THE GIBBER No Daves Allowed????
JeffDWoods Can run-time libs be created by anything other the
MPW-IIGS-cross-linker?
AFA Parik Hehehe Dave
Matt DTS DTP = Desktop publishing or Developer Texa Port... :-)
Dave Lyons (ADB = AppleWorks Database; Apple Desktop Bus)... :)
Dave Lyons :) Gibber
Matt DTS The APW linker currently doesn't make Run time libraries, but I
don't know...
THE GIBBER ADB= A Definite Bug ;)
JSchober hehehehe
AFA Parik :)
Matt DTS ...about the TML or ORCA linkers (or the Micol OMF converter)
SEGlass There is an MPW x-dev tool called makelibiigs that makes
libraries.
JeffDWoods I don't think Orca & TML can.
SEGlass The MPW x-dev linker can link files that follow our OMF
standards.
SEGlass They can be created by the cross assembler, the apw assembler, a
compiler
JeffDWoods Does MakeLibIIgs run on the Mac or GS?
SEGlass running on either machine. They all can be linked together and/or
made into
SEGlass libraries.
SEGlass The IIGS suffix is for tools running under MPW on a Mac.
AFL Jim Jeff: Mac
JeffDWoods So the only way to make a IIgs RTL is to buy a Mac. :(
AFL Jim For now :)
SEGlass Isn't there a makelib facility in APW?
JeffDWoods For over 2 years....
Matt DTS Yeah, but the linker won't support run-time libraries, Steve.
AFL Jim makelib under APW makes a linakable library, Steve.
JeffDWoods MakeLib makes linker libs. Don't RTLs have a different format?
AFL Jim (-a)
Fuzzzzy I have a Mac II for sale - $1500.
SEGlass I guess we gotta start somewhere.
AFL Jim sure!
Fuzzzzy <just kidding> :)
AFA Parik Sold Fuzzzy. :)
AFA Parik dang. :-)
JSchober heh... $2.34 < $1500, but I can bounce a check, LOL....
THE GIBBER Check the serial number, and then lets have a b-b-Q ;)
Airship Got iit Cecil, thanx.
AFA Gary J I had finger arrest there....the price knocked me off my chair,
Fuzzzzy. :)
JSchober hehe Gary...
Fuzzzzy <Did I say Mac II, I meant Apple II>
ScottG25 made a profit, Joe? used to be 2.32..
AFA Parik :-)
JSchober :) Fuzzy...
JSchober Yeah, I got a nickel from Marty.... %)
AFA Gary J OH! Minor detail... (heheh)
Airship Is that with 16K and all!?
THE GIBBER OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
JSchober Oops... wrong. Dave owes me a nickel; Marty gave me $0.02...
AFL Jim It looks as though our scheduled hour is up this week. Feel free
to stick
AFL Jim around longer.
AFA Parik Dang, we didn't make 23+...:(
AFL Jim Thnks for coming tonight.
AFA Parik Wanted to see if the room would blow up. :)
CecilFret Yup, us grandpas to be need to get our beauty rest
SEGlass There are good ways to simulate the run time libraries using user
tools.
JSchober Thanks, Jim... :) It was most interesting.........
KSUTHER Thanks Jim!
SEGlass You don't need any linker support.
JeffDWoods Thanks for the info, Matt & Steve! I appreciate the direct input.
:)
AFA Parik ::::clap:::: ::::clap::::
Dave Lyons Why do I owe you a nickel, Joe?
Airship G'nite everybody!
AFA Gary J How's that, Steve?
Airship ()()()()()()()()
CecilFret Standing applause
JSchober Something about a bet you made in AUT with Floyd about ACU... but
I paid off
JSchober the bet.... something like that. ;)
CecilFret Night all!
KSUTHER Hey Dave Lyons, where is that article for Call you talked with
Charlie about?
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Cecil.
AFA Parik (let him rave a little Dave, its good for programmers to let out
their
JSchober >> From: Dave Lyons / >> I'll bet you a nickel........
JSchober Night, Cecil!
AFA Parik frustrations in chat rooms instead of in the shell :)
SEGlass I think what I'll do is explain it all to Matt and have him post
it.
MikeJK Night all. Thanks fom a MUMPSTER
JSchober Night, Mike.
AFL Jim Gary: Steve's talking about writing your own Toolboxes.
AFL Jim Bye Mike
AFA Gary J OK...
JeffDWoods Steve, do you consider user toolsets a good substitute for TRLs?
JeffDWoods oops... RTLs?
AFA Parik Take 2 2x3' pieces of wood, saw together, put a top on, you have
one sturdy
AFA Parik toolbox.
THE GIBBER LOL
SEGlass I think it could be a good substitute.
JSchober grrrrooaaan....
JSchober Hi, Mike.
AFA Parik Hi Mike!
Matt DTS ("and HAVE him post it..." And I thought just Harry didn't like
me...)
Matt DTS <professional grumbler>
JSchober :)
AFA Gary J :)
THE GIBBER Is that the //gs Carpenter's tool box???
SEGlass Matt, now everyone knows why we hired you?
Fuzzzzy Matt: Done with the A2 technotes yet? <ducking>
Matt DTS You just wait, Steve. I'll get you, and your little dog, too.
JeffDWoods I think it is more cumbersome to interface with, but otherwise a
good solution.
AFA Parik Yup John. Use it to take apart your GS and install faster parts.
:)
Matt DTS TNs are in duplicatin.
AFA Parik <amatuer grumbler>
JSchober hehehehe Parik!
JSchober ARE in, or will be RSN?? ;)
SEGlass I must leave. See you all soon.
Matt DTS It's the same thing. :-)
AFL Jim Bye Steve
Matt DTS G'night, Steve.
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Steve.
JSchober hehehehehe... NOW we know... ;)
AFA Parik (2 more days, and Apple package should be at my door :)
JSchober Bye, Steve!
Dave Lyons Bye, Steve!
JeffDWoods Have the TNs been uploaded yet, or do they have to wait for
duplication??? ;)
AFA Parik Night Steve!
Fuzzzzy So they'll be ready for the November developer mailing that is
going to be mailed in Jan? ;)
THE GIBBER Afa Parik: What apple package is that ????
Matt DTS The text files aren't done, but the paper ones are in
duplication.
ScottG25 Fuzzy///// LOL!!
Matt DTS Text files are in progress.
AFA Parik John, the developer packages always come in on the 15th for me,
and the Septemb
Matt DTS Well, g'night. Gotta go read messages.
AFA Parik issue promised me a whole new set of TNs. Its gonna come
eventually. :)
JSchober CUL Matt..
AFA Gary J Fuzzzzy...Apple's clock is 2 months slow..
AFA Parik Bye Matt
THE GIBBER Is it the apple package from Colombia??????
JeffDWoods One would think the paper copies would printed from computer text
files. :)
Fuzzzzy Gee, did I run Matt off? :)
AFL Jim 'Night, Matt
THE GIBBER Now we know where you get those crazy game Ideas ;)
ScottG25 Probably are, Jeff... MacWrite...
AFA Gary J They are, Jeff...MacWrite
AFA Parik :P John
JSchober Right, what Scott said... and Gary... :(
AFA Parik (why don't they use AppleWorks GS? hehehe)
JeffDWoods So what is the delay on uploads?
JSchober LOL Parik...
AFA Gary J Right, Parik.. We need a conversion utility.
AFA Gary J (MacWrite to AppleWorks GS)
AFL Jim Parik, they want them printed this year :)
AFA Parik :)
Fuzzzzy Parik: They tried that but got too many "Serious Sytem Errors".
hehehe
AFA Gary J hehehe
ScottG25 THAT is the best suggestion I've heard in ages!
JSchober LOL Jim....
JeffDWoods How about "Print to disc","AFE", and import into GSWorks?
AFA Parik And notice how the tech notes are justified...
AFA Parik (try that in AW GS)
AFA Parik Its appleWorks GS now Jeff. (GSWorks -> AppleWorks GS)
Fuzzzzy Jeff: The technotes are in Mac format, Matt is working to convert
them to straight text.
AFA Gary J Jeff...the graphics don't come across that way.
JSchober Heck... classic AWorks will do THAT, Parik!
AFA Parik hi F4Eart!
JeffDWoods But I strongly prefer GSWorks. :) It's easier to say, & I liked
StyleWare!
JSchober Hi, F4...
JSchober hehehe... it WAS a better name...
F4EART hello !
AFA Parik heheh Jeff.
JSchober Now we have this AppleWorks (Classic) vs AppleWorks GS stuff...
Fuzzzzy I'm outta here. Bye all.
AFA Parik Does anyone know if the Print Managers justification routines
work?
AFA Parik Bye Fuzzzzy!
JeffDWoods If you care about how long ot takes to print there is NO decision
to make!!!
AFL Jim Sounds like the Coca-Cola wars all over again.
AFA Gary J :)
JSchober hehehehe... Classic AW, New AW...
JSchober fun fun fun...
AFA Parik Tastes Great...
JSchober Less filling!
AFA Parik :)
JSchober (Less expensive, too...)
THE GIBBER Appleworks Gs is a good idea. Now they need a machine that will
take it to
AFA Gary J We just need to make the "classic" AppleWorks into a CDA now...
THE GIBBER it's limits :)
JeffDWoods I don't think the Print Manager justifies buying GSWorks. ;)
JSchober hehehehe Gary...
Dave Lyons Tastes great / less speed
THE GIBBER LOL
JSchober Gotta run for now, folks.... thanks for the chat, Jim/Gary... see
y'all later!
AFA Parik Bye Joe!
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Joe.
THE GIBBER By joey
ScottG25 Less speed!