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Subj: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-22 14:20:00 EST
From: Gy813 Msgs: 34 (89-02-11)
im trying to install the GS/OS on my hard drive and cant get it
to boot. i keep getting file not found for the file:
start.gs.os
even though its in the system subdirectory??? any ideas?
thanks
george
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-22 17:23:38 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Beats me--did you use the installer to install the files? (Shouldn't matter, as long
as you get the files in the right places & don't have anything extra lying around
from the old system disk.)
What exactly does it do? Any error codes? What kind of hard drive, what slot? Are
you trying something weird like booting into the second partition of your drive?
(Probably won't work under GS/OS.)
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-22 20:26:44 EST
From: Matt DTS
George:
Sounds to me like you're trying to launch the file PRODOS from ProSEL. For some
strange reason, that won't work. The file PRODOS on System Disk 4.0 does not always
reboot the system when it's launched.
Simply boot into the hard drive (set the startup slot and press control-open
apple-reset) and all will be fine.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-23 12:23:48 EST
From: JSchober
Matt...
You CAN boot GS/OS from ProSEL, you just have to take a roundabout approach to doing
it, comme ca...:
Program Title: Boot GS/OS
Prefix : ?
Application : ] <=== run BASIC.SYSTEM first
Startup Path : ?GSOS
Now... all ya' gotta do is rename PRODOS from System 4.0 (PRODOS is the loader file
-- a 4 block critter) to GSOS, leave it in the root directory, and make sure the
SYSTEM/ directory contains everything you DO need (START.GS.OS, GS.OS, the FSTS/
folder, the DRIVERS/ folder, the SYSTEM.SETUP/ folder, the TOOLS/ folder) and nothing
you DON'T need (stuff left over from System 3.x -- the only System 3.x stuff that'll
work with GS/OS are desk accessories, fonts, and certain setup files...).
Good luck! :)
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-23 15:00:09 EST
From: Gy813
im using a 30meg Datamac hard drive which is comaptible with the Sider drives. its
partitioned into 2 volumes. when i boot the
drive its in dos 3.3 and there is a menu item to boot into
prodos. when i boot into prodos i t takes me to basic. from
there i tried running the prodos on my ie GS/OS loader file
i presume...it gives me a error $46 file not found for the
file start.gs.os....yet its in the system directory??????
any ideas??
thanks
george
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-23 18:01:11 EST
From: Dave Lyons
George, how can BOOT INTO PRODOS take you into BASIC if you have GS/OS installed on
your hard drive? Is it loading the PRODOS file from your hard drive, or it is
loading an image of PRODOS 8 from the DOS 3.3 partition? I know the Sider software
used to work that way, but later versions of it (Rev C and D, I think) actually
loaded PRODOS from the ProDOS partition, which is what you want to do.
If your drive is doing what I think it is, you're getting ProDOS 8 loaded from the
DOS 3.3 partition, and it's finding BASIC.SYSTEM in the main directory any running
it. At that point some people have had -PRODOS work for them, but it isn't
guaranteed to.
You *might* try converting the PRODOS file from System Disk 4.0 into DOS 3.3 and
copying it in place of whatever file gets loaded when you choose "Boot into ProDOS".
--Dave Lyons
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-25 18:40:18 EST
From: Gy813
that is correct. it is loading dos 3.3 then bloading a prodos file, making several
pokes then doing a call to start prodos? does this make any sense? ive tried just
-PRODOS once its in basic but that where i get the file not found error $46 for the
file called START.GS.OS ???? should i convert the system 4.0 prodos to dos 3.3? if so
how?
thanks
george
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-25 21:01:21 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Try using System Utilities or any other ProDOS -> DOS 3.3 conversion program to
convert PRODOS from System Disk 4.0 to a DOS 3.3 floppy, and then use a DOS 3.3 copy
program (one that came with your hard drive) to copy it to your drive.
Actually I'd recommend upgrading your drive's software so that it actually reads
PRODOS from the ProDOS partition directly. It will make it easier to update yoru
system later.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-26 23:25:28 EST
From: AFL Vince
FCP is informing people that the only way their early drives that allowed op system
partitioning will work properly with GSOS is by changing the roms on the controller
card and making the drives all Prodos. The roms are offered by a 3rd party company.
There is a folder in the Hardware forum here with comments from a chat the other
night with the FCP rep. The newer Siders that are all Prodos dont have any problems
that I know of. On the old drives, you have to boot GSOS with from a 3.5 before your
hd will be recognized.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-27 09:58:14 EST
From: MikeW50
Just to throw a monkey wrence in the works: I'm using a Sider, which still has the
old ROMs, and it works fine with GS/OS.
Mike Westerfield
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-27 22:30:25 EST
From: Matt DTS
Here's the problem, to the best of my knowledge:
Sider's old, Multi-OS ROMs don't seem to initialize themselves for ProDOS until a
low-level READ call is issued to them.
During the boot process, the first thing the generated driver routine does is send it
a STATUS call. If you're booting from power-on and have not used the drive yet, it
will not be initialized and will return "Device Off-Line", to which GS/OS says, "Hey,
I can't generate a driver for you if you're not there."
This only shows up if you boot GS/OS from some drive other than the Sider. If you
do, dropping into ProDOS 8 (BASIC.SYSTEM will do) and coming back will magically make
your Siders appear upon thy desktop.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-28 19:16:15 EST
From: Gy813
and how are you booting into GS/OS ???
george
Subj: Re: How do *I* boot? 88-10-28 20:16:27 EST
From: Matt DTS
Well, *I* have the ATG all-ProDOS ROMs in my Sider ][, and I'm quite pleased with
them. Here's what you should do to boot:
1. Boot the 4.0 system disk from your 3.5" drive.
2. Launch BASIC.SYSTEM from the system disk.
3. Type "BYE". You should be returned to the desktop and your Sider should appear.
4. Insert System Tools and run the Installe program.
5. Pick "Install System Files" and install them to your Sider.
6. If you have a UniDisk 3.5 (the white 3.5" drive), also use the Installer program
to install the UniDisk driver (it's at the very bottom).
7. Reboot the Sider; GS/OS should boot when you pick "Boot into ProDOS".
I hope this works for you. If not, you'll have to get help directly from First Class
Peripherals.
--Matt
Subj: Interface Card Compatibility 88-11-30 12:11:11 EST
From: AFL Jim
Just a reminder...
To use GS/OS you *must* have the IIGS ROM update (only needed on older Apple IIGSs).
Also, if you have:
o Apple's SCSI Interface Card, you *must* have ROM part number
341-0437, Revision A on the card.
o Apple's ProFile Interface Card, you *must* have ROM part
number 341-0299, Revision B on the card.
All three ROM updates are FREE from Apple. Ask your local dealer for details.
Subj: clarify: needed ROMs for GS/OS 88-12-01 20:19:25 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Yes, what Jim said.
The 341-0437-A SCSI ROM is also called "Revision C" (or at least the CARD is called a
Rev C card when it has that ROM in it...something like that).
You can tell that you have the "new" GS ROM when it says "ROM 01" toward the bottom
of the screen when you power on (the older rom, ROM 00, says nothing). ROM 00 is
also known in some documentation as ROM 1.0, and ROM 01 is known as ROM 2.0.
(Brilliant, eh?)
Subj: GS/OS Booting on Sider 88-12-09 17:28:29 EST
From: AFL Jim
The Sider firmware apparantly needs to be initialized before GS/OS will recognize it
as an active ProDOS device. Booting with ProDOS 8 and accessing the Sider once will
initialize the Sider's firmware.
The replacement ROM you mentioned takes care of the initialization problem.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-09 23:19:57 EST
From: Matt DTS
That's pretty much it.
A ProDOS device has four low-level commands - STATUS, READ, WRITE and FORMAT. The
Sider firmware initializes itself when it gets its first READ call. Until then, it
returns "Device Off-Line" error.
And, you guessed it, the first thing ProDOS 8 does is READ and the first thing GS/OS
does is STATUS, which gets back "Device Off-Line" to which GS/OS says, "Hey, if
there's nothing on-line, I can't build a DIB for it." Dropping into ProDOS 8 forces
the firmware to initialize itself, so when GS/OS is restarted, everything goes
according to The Plan.
--Matt
Subj: Installing on a CMS HD How? 88-12-15 20:30:12 EST
From: GPFlint
How do I install GS/OS 4.0 on my CMS hard disk? It seams like I can not get the
installer program to recognize the hard disk. When I select the volume to intall the
new system on the heading changes to /CMS but the icon in the little window is a 3.5
icon. Implementing the "Install" requests the System Tools disk, then the System
disk, then a window appears with a hand, stating "File not found". What file isn't
found? Something on the System disk or the whole hard disk? Nuts.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-15 21:22:23 EST
From: AFA Parik
Which card interface are you using? (The Apple SCSI card or the CMS SCSI Card)
Are you installing the SYSTEM or are you installing the SCSI driver? The SCSI driver
is =ONLY= for the Apple SCSI Card.
What you need to do is INSTALL SYSTEM, and if you are using a Apple SCSI card,
install APPLE SCSI driver. If you are using the CMS card, just leave it alone and
reboot into the drive. It should work perfectly.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-17 02:59:52 EST
From: Matt DTS
Sounds to me like you made a file-by-file copy of the disks rather than a disk image
copy. If you use the Finder to make a file-by-file copy, the Finder won't duplicate
the file FINDER.DEF from /SYSTEM.DISK, and the Installer script requires it to be
present.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-17 07:43:50 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Mmmm...that's a very interesting tidbit, Matt. Can the installer script be fixed not
to require FINDER.DEF? (Or is there a better way around the problem?)
GPFlint--what this boils down to is that if you copy System Disk or System Tools
using the Finder, you should do it by dragging the Disk icon onto the target disk
icon (rather than selecting all the icons inside the disk and dragging _them_ into
the target disk window or onto its icon).
Subj: 4.0 TO CMS DRIVE 89-01-15 22:48:11 EST
From: GPFlint
After all the fiddling to install 4.0 on to my CMS HD I discover that TML Pascal
v1.00D doesn't like 4.0. I have v1.5 but it doesn't like my programs and I don't
plan to go through and find all to changes neccessary. Thanks anyway.
Subj: Use TML Pascal 1.50! 89-01-16 21:26:49 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Ouch! I'd take the trouble to switch over to TML Pascal 1.50 (or 1.50A--only diff is
a Seek bug fixed in 1.50A).
By sticking with 1.00D because you don't want to change over to the new interface
files, you're going to be stuck with that version _forever_! I bet there were a
_lot_ more changes in those interface units between 1.00D and 1.50 than there ever
will be again--they fixed a lot of problems.
I don't have a list of the bugs that were fixed from 1.00D to 1.50, but there were a
lot of them. I'd be _really_ scared using an outdated version of TML Pascal.
--Dave Lyons
Subj: TML1.5 89-01-21 22:51:52 EST
From: GPFlint
Alright Dave, you convinced me. But the work! UGH!
Garth
Subj: Re: CMS and GS/OS 89-01-27 01:07:15 EST
From: AFL Floyd
It sounds like you have the SCSI.DRIVER in the SYSTEM/DRIVERS/ directory of your
system disk. If so, remove it. Boot the system disk. Then run the installer. You
- should* be able to select the CMS drive to install, at least I was able to. Without
the SCSI.DRIVER GS/OS should recognize the CMS drive as just a big ProDOS device.
Floyd
Subj: Re: GS/OS and CMS 89-01-27 10:45:40 EST
From: GPFlint
Thanks Everyone! The idiot finally figured it out! I had the 4.0 system in SYSTEM
file, in other words - /CMS/SYSTEM/SYSTEM doesn't work to hot. /CMS/SYSTEM works
great.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 89-01-29 23:42:55 EST
From: Matt DTS
I feel obliged to point out to Floyd that even WITH SCSI.DRIVER installed, GS/OS
treats anything attached to a CMS SCSI card like a Big ProDOS Device...
--Matt
Subj: Re: Beta testing 89-02-03 01:35:11 EST
From: AFL Floyd
Matt,
When I was beta testing GS/OS my CMS hard disk would not boot with the SCSI.DRIVER
installed and the CMS controller card. Hence my comment. I never tested it after
the final release because I'm using an Apple SCSI card now. ;)
floyd
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 89-02-04 17:08:28 EST
From: Matt DTS
That's strange; that certainly shouldn't be the case for the final product. Not
having a CMS drive, though, I don't suppose I'll be finding out myself.
--Matt
Subj: Wasn't with final version 89-02-10 06:20:12 EST
From: AFL Floyd
Matt,
It was the beta version that did that, not the final version.
Floyd
Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 89-02-11 02:02:39 EST
From: Matt DTS
(Whew. You scared me for a minute there.)
(To refresh - it was beta and not final versions of GS/OS that caused CMS cards *not*
to work if SCSI.DRIVER was installed.)
--Matt
Subj: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-24 22:23:12 EST
From: Spockk1 Msgs: 6 (88-11-06)
Hi all,
I have a problem with the GS/OS system. I have a Apple IIgs w/ a 5.25 floppy and a
3.5 floppy and a 20 meg ProApp HD. I have version ROM 01. I have my HD connected to
a SCSI w/ version 2.0 ROM. However, when I install the HD driver, my HD is not found
by gs/os. If I try to boot from my HD, I get the message...can't load "start.gs.os.
...error $002D or $0002D I can't remember. I have tried different ways to install
the SCSI driver onto my system disk...and always geting, once I boot the system disk,
a damaged disk box...strange HuH? Can you help me.
Looking forward to your reply,
Spockk1...out
Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-25 19:04:32 EST
From: AFL Jim
I think we have this straightened out by EMail, but...
Once again, please check your SCSI card ROM - it should be rev C.
Jim
Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-26 19:28:04 EST
From: DennisDoms
Ver. 2.0 may be Rev. C. That's the version number on my ROM (and the serial number
ends in "A"; Apple Copyright 1986-1988). Did you set up the disk with Installer?
Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-27 21:03:50 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Confirmed: the number on the ROM that ends in 0437-A, Ver 2.0 *is* the Rev C ROM.
Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-11-06 20:09:26 EST
From: Spockk1
Spockk1 to all who have acknowledged my dilemma,
I finally got my system 4.0 software installed. It took two Saturdays, a lot of
trials, but I got it. I daisychained my HD to my 3.5 disk. I then had to wipeout
all the files using a file called WIPEOUT.0 from my HD utilities. After that, used
the ADVANCED DISK UTILITY to initialize the HD. I then installed all the necessary
scripts and system files to the HD. Finally, I reconnected my HD to the SCSI card
and rebooted my system. I works perfectly. I appreciate everybody's information.
So if you here of anyone having trouble with installing system 4.0 files to a ProApp,
please direct them to this note or have them leave a message for me.
Spockk1...out
Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-11-06 23:27:00 EST
From: Matt DTS
Hmm.
Sounds like the "Volume XXX may be damaged..." message was telling you the truth.
--Matt
Subj: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-10-29 15:22:52 EST
From: Moustash Msgs: 19 (89-01-02)
why is it when i have the applelink disk in a drive while i on the desk top using ver
4 there is an icon labled aplk sys 16 on the desk top sort of just laying around?
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-10-29 20:50:45 EST
From: Matt DTS
M: The icon is on the desktop because that's where the people who created the disk
put it. If you don't like it, you can highlight it and pick "Put Back" or "Put Away"
(whatever it's called) under the "File" menu and it will go back into the window
where it originally came from. (That's the icon you double-click on to launch the
IIgs-only version of AppleLink, incidentally.)
Harry: It wouldn't surprise me if the AppleLink software required the mouse to be in
slot 4 on a IIgs. It might even require the ADB mouse, but it shouldn't if the
software uses the 8-bit Mouse Firmware calls. But if it uses the 16-bit mouse
firmware calls (from the Misc. Tools), it probably requires the ADB mouse. BillP
should have more details.
--Matt
Subj: Misc Tools calls and Mice 88-10-30 01:17:53 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Matt, don't the Misc Tools calls search for and use a mouse in any slot, ADB or not
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-10-31 21:09:07 EST
From: Matt DTS
Ya got me. I never tried it. :-)
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-01 02:03:08 EST
From: G Branche
What was that I saw about a GS-only version of the software? The latest that I've
seen is 1.0.7 (I think), and it's the 8-bit version.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-01 18:32:47 EST
From: HErwin
The mouse is in slot 4, but it isn't an ADB mouse.
Harry
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-01 21:08:08 EST
From: JSchober
Omigosh, Greg.... you haven't been on for a while, have you?? ;)
Call up Customer Service -- that's 1-800-227-6364 -- and ask them to send you a 3.5"
version of AppleLink. It contains both AppleLink GS and AppleLink 1.1.9 (or what we
beta testers would call 1.1.9 -- I guess it's labelled as 1.0). Fixes zillions of
bugs -- 1.1.9 is perfect, as far as I know. (Bet you still even have Instant
Messages, huh?? %)
--Joey
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-07 21:51:29 EST
From: PaulM83
Whats this GS only version of Applelink?????
Subj: What you get... 88-11-08 12:11:57 EST
From: AFL Jim
The Apple II AppleLink-PE software package includes 2 disks; a 5.25" disk with the
Apple IIe/IIc version of AppleLink software and a 3.5" disk with the Apple IIGS
version of AppleLink. The major difference between the two packages is the graphics
screens; the IIe/IIc version uses the Hi-Res menu screens while the IIGS version uses
Super-Hi-Res menu screens. I personally use the IIe/IIc version - the program files
are smaller, so it loads faster.
Jim
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-10 23:13:16 EST
From: JimLaz
Actualy the 3.5 disk contains the 8-bit version too, for the IIc+.
JimLaz
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-13 23:43:39 EST
From: AFL TracyP
And the only differences are the Icon Screens and the opening and closing screens.
One you get past the icons screens, the GS user and the IIe/IIc user sees the =exact=
same thing.
Tracy
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-15 01:09:12 EST
From: Matt DTS
Don't forget, however, that the GS version makes GS/OS calls (or ProDOS 16 calls),
not ProDOS 8 calls. Anyone with GS/OS specific features (like more than two
partitions on a hard disk or disks in a file system that's not ProDOS) can take
advantage of them only if running the 16-bit version of the software.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-15 23:10:27 EST
From: ShrinkIt
Yep, *IF* there were another filing system avilable... that we could WRITE to. :)
andy
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-16 22:53:30 EST
From: Dave Lyons
I haven't tried it, but don't you also get to use (but not set!) all 32 prefixes, and
use device names and ":" separators when you use the GS version of ALPE under GS/OS?
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-17 19:30:16 EST
From: AFL Floyd
Dave,
Yes. With the GS version of ALPE under GS/OS you can use device names and ":" when
setting the prefix or typing in pathnames.
Floyd
Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-19 13:55:06 EST
From: JSchober
Yup, you sure can, Dave. In fact, I find it very handy... in my /FX20/ALINK/ folder,
I have two more subdirectories: ALINK/TRANSFER/ (files I've just downloaded, files
that are ready to be uploaded) and ALINK/SCRIPTS (logs, copies of messages). I set up
an ECP16 batch file that sets the prefix to */ALINK, 2/ to */ALINK/TRANSFER, and 3/
to */ALINK/SCRIPTS, then SHELL ALINK.SYS16's the thing. Works great -- no need to
type huge pathnames to go from dir to dir; just type a number and the name.
:)
--Joe
Subj: Compact and AppleLink 89-01-02 11:59:18 EST
From: AFL Floyd
The next version of AppleLink GS is in OMF 2 format and is around 145 blocks (I
think). This version fixes the intermitent upload bug also.
The ACU.SYS16 file is only 1 block long, it simply quits to LACU16 in the II.FOLDER.
I don't think compact will make it smaller. ;)
Floyd
Subj: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS boot 88-11-03 00:24:14 EST
From: AFL TracyP Msgs: 9 (89-05-14)
Forwarded message from AHW......
Subj: NDA'S & CDA'S CRASH GSOS BOOT 88-11-02 23:37:40 est
From: DAGII Msgs: 1 (88-11-02)
Help
If I put add any more than one CDA or NDA to my GSOS boot disk, the computer hangs on
boot. These CDA's and NDA's worked fine in previous versions of prodos 16.
The computer hangs just after the desktop is drawn and the empty menu bar is placed
at the top of the screen. It stops there. The wristwatch cursor fails to appear,
and the menu bar doesn't get filled with the usual items of the GS Finder.
I could be wrong, but I don't think the DA's are at fault and I'm loading them into
the correct folder on the boot disk.
I am using a Woz-signed GS with the ROM 01 upgrade, a GS-RAM card (Applied
Engineering) with 1.5 Meg, Grappler+ and ProGrappler cards installed in slots 2 and
1, respectively, and a few other cards.
My System disk boots fine before adding these DA's, won't work after I do add them,
and again boots fine after I remove them.
Anybody got any ideas?
DAGII
Subj: Problem DAs? 88-11-03 10:17:40 EST
From: AFL Floyd
It sounds like buggy DAs to me. Why don't you list the names of the DAs in question.
That would give us more information to solve your problem.
Floyd
Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-05 21:47:42 EST
From: JimLaz
Also, try putting them in one or two at a time. I've had problems with certain NDA's
causing problems. Like SYSBEEP not working with Styleware's Alarm Clock.
JimLaz
Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS 88-11-08 21:48:34 EST
From: HaleyComet
I have found the problem which has been plagueing me for about three weeks (ever
since I got GS/OS). Whenever I tried to run Prodos 8 based programs such as
Appleworks from the GS/OS finder, it would bomb.
Yesterday, I discovered that the problem was with a NDA I like from StyleWare's
DESKWORKS -- the Menu Clock. This NDA actually resides in the System.Setup
subdirectory. After I removed it. Everything started working great.
Now all I have to do is to get StyleWare (alias Claris) to come up with a fix. ;)
Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-09 22:43:56 EST
From: JSchober
You're not alone. The MENU.CLOCK... errr... (it's NOT an NDA, it's an INIT file) is
infamous for its tendency to cause problems with nearly every program in existance.
In theory, it's great; in practice, it just doesn't work. Sorry, but you'll have to
leave that file out.......
<I wonder if MAC people have the same kinds of problems we do... %) >
--Joe
Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-10 23:08:20 EST
From: JimLaz
Yes, Mac people have just as many problems with screwy INIT's DA's and other wierd
stuff. keeps my pockets full.
JimLaz
Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-11 09:04:33 EST
From: AFL Floyd
Jim Mensch of Apple Computer wrote a Menu Clock INIT that works fine in all the
programs that I use that Styleware's Menu Clock caused to crash.
Jim L.: Did Jim ever upload that here?
Floyd
Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-11 23:50:21 EST
From: AFL Jim
Floyd: Nope, not here.
Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 89-05-14 12:20:00 EST
From: BluCruiser
This is a little late, but I have had similar problems. Only my system disk crashed
just before going to the finder screen. Hmmmm.
Subj: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YUK! 88-11-17 00:55:24 EST
From: PaulM83 Msgs: 8 (88-11-24)
I have GS/OS installed on my Sider which it recognizes with no trouble. I renamed the
start file in the system folder as "finder" and installed Gary Breedons start file so
that the system would boot up and go in to Prosel. My daughter likes the desktop
because she thinks its "so neat" so I wanted to retain that capability.The problem is
that when I select the finder and double click on hard 1 all the icons come up and
everyhing works normally BUT when I double click on hard 2 although the desktop comes
up it it empty. What in the world am I doing wrong?????????????????? (I even tried
installing EVERYTHING on hard 2 and booting into that but the results are exactly the
same. HELPPPPPPP!
Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-18 01:37:43 EST
From: PaulM83
Thats right, Dave, the window opens up with 0 items, blinks a moment later and then
instead of listing a number and then the contents, returns to 0 items. Basic System
catalogs all items in hard2 normally. Copy II Plus(Prodos Version) catalogs all items
in hard2 normally. I can launch all items in hard2 by means of Prosel normally.
However when loading system disk 3.1 (Prodos 16) hard 2 shows empty again! I thought
the patch to boot into Prosel might be causing the problem, so I backed out the
changes listed im my first message but this did not correct the situation. Its
important to note that when I originally installed GSOS that everything was all ok.
This difficulty apparently arose sometime during the past fow days when I was making
changes to hard1 to go directly into Prosel upon boot up. Tonight I went back and
reinstalled GSOS onto hard1 in hope that that would correct things, but no dice, I
still cannot get the finder to list anything in hard2 even though I know all
applications are there and I can run them with Prosel. I'm stumped!!!!
Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-18 19:30:32 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Try running MR.FIXIT on hard2 and see if it finds anything wrong with it.
I'm still interesting in knowing whether Standard File dialogs find anything there
under GS/OS...I suspect they don't. That would confirm that there's probably
something wrong with the directory structure.
Hey, here's an idea. E-mail me a copy of /hard2's directory (it'll be a short file,
only 4 or 5 blocks). From BASIC.SYSTEM do
BLOAD /HARD2,TDIR,A$1000
BSAVE TO.DAVE,A$1000,L$800
and I'll see if anything looks odd.
Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-18 22:00:49 EST
From: PaulM83
Dave, you are an absolute *!&#*%#@$ JEWELL! Mr.Fixit did not find any bad blocks on
Hard1 or Hard2, It found one error on Hard2 and six on Hard1 (boy am I embarassed) in
the directory structure. Fixing these though, still did not correct the problem.
Running fix on the main directory of each sure did though! Now Hard1 gives me the
icons and Hard2 gives me the baby ones with type listings. SURE do appreciate the
help!
Subj: Mr. Fixit fixed it 88-11-18 23:36:46 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Hmmm...don't suppose you have a copy of what the directory looked like _before_ you
ran Mr. Fixit on it, do you? Just curious about what could be messed up that would
cause GS/OS to think there were 0 files when ProDOS 8 could see them fine.
Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-19 21:40:53 EST
From: PaulM83
Sorry, no I don't. Guess I got the cart before the horse.
Subj: Re: Sider modification 88-11-24 05:13:59 EST
From: Raj Dood
There is a chip available from Advanced Tech Services, PO Box 920413, Norcross,
Georgia 30092, (404)441-3322, which allows a Sider to be entirely configured for
ProDOS. I always felt there was a lot of wasted space used up for Pascal, DOS 3.3
and C/PM formatting, which I never used. This chip is easily installed on the Host
Adapter Card. The price includes the chip, formatting software (though you may use
GS software to format the disk), and instructions for installation. You may also use
the entire disk as one volume, which I find simplifies operation on my system. The
cost is $59.95 plus $2.50 S&H, and an additional $2.50 for COD, which is the fastest
way to recieve the kit. I've had mine in for about a month, now, and it works fine
and gives me more storage space on the HD. Glen Bredon put me on to this. It's a
good modification if you run mostly ProDOS. You can run that other stuff from
floppies if you need to.
Subj: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-05 20:37:21 EST
From: THE GIBBER Msgs: 13 (88-12-12)
What are the restrictions on file and volume in GS/OS??? I have been looking over my
beta draft (GSOS reference volume 1) and I thought I saw something about all of the
restrictions being lifted in GSOS. Something about 2 to the 32 (rather than only
16mb for files and 32mb for volumes). The reason I am asking this I am trying to
reformat my 2nd 60 megger and when I go to format I get the message that "Only part
of the volume will be recognized". What the heck is this????? Am I missing the boat
or what? I know with the ADU, I am allowed to partition my hard drive into several
segements. Is this what they call lifting the restrictions???? Any comments would
be of some help.
John Gibson
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-05 23:12:31 EST
From: JSchober
Right, what Mike said. :)
Under >PRODOS< (the PRO.FST Translator), you can only have 32 megs per volume...
that's a limit imposed by using unsigned 2-byte integers for block count. On the
other hand, when the MAC HFS FST comes out, for example, you'll be able to use... I
guess 4 gigs per volume. Of course, using THAT under P8 is a dream... ;)
For operation under ProDOS, you're stuck with 32 meg volumes. The ADU will Partition
any drive connected to an APPLE (CMS and others won't cut the mustard!) SCSI drive --
in slots 1,2,4,6,7, you can have 2 partitions under P8 (total = 64 megs); in slot 5,
you can have up to 4 partitions, or 128 megs. (Actually, the system translates that
to S5D1,S5D2,S2D1,S2D2... but so long as you get the space, who cares?! :)
--Joe
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-05 23:54:03 EST
From: Matt DTS
Actually, ADU will partition up to seven partitions, but you'll only see two of them
(four if the SCSI card's in slot five) under ProDOS 8. But the GS/OS ProDOS FST can
read and write all of them just fine.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-06 21:17:05 EST
From: DennisDoms
The bad news is that the partitioning software eats lots of space; I ended up with 62
meg of my 64 meg drive (2 megs lost to overhead). :(
Also, the apocryphal Some Bozo limited the Apple II Partitioning software to 40
megs...
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-06 23:19:48 EST
From: THE GIBBER
I want it all and I want it now and I want it all in one volume. Thanks for the
info; I sort of knew the answer to that one when I started thinking really hard
about it! But really folks, I do hope that one of those RESERVED fst is for an apple
format system THAT will work with prodos and will allow volumes larger than the
prodos 32 meg limit. Hmmmmmm........ Would that be
fesible???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Naw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Guys for the help. like I said, after thinking about the set up of GSOS with
the FST; I remembered that Prodos Fst was the one doing the formatting :( Oh well,
120 megs and 5 partitions isn't bad. However when I get my 140 on line with this
stack, I am going to have to get another SCSI card :)
John Gibson
aka
Subj: ProDOS format limited to 32MB 88-12-07 21:44:58 EST
From: Dave Lyons
John, the ProDOS disk format is permanently limited to 32MB because it uses 2-byte
block numbers everywhere. 65536 blocks times 512 bytes per block is 32 megabytes.
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-07 23:44:27 EST
From: Matt DTS
If you want, the Apple SCSI card will let you have up to seven partitions. At 32MB
each, that's 224MB (I believe).
Of course, P8 will only see the first two (four if in slot five), but you can use it
all under GS/OS.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-08 13:06:25 EST
From: DougMac
There was a comment about CMS drives not being able to partition. It is the CMS scsi
card that isn't able to be partitioned, not the drive. The only difference is that
the CMS drive and Apple drive, is that CMS has the terminators on the inside, and
Apple's on the outside. You can remove the terminators, and be just like an Apple
drive.. Or if you only have one drive, just leave them in.. Doesn't matter..
Also I posted over usetnet feed comp.sys.apple, and idea for Apple to make a
big_prodos fst.. The appeal to this is that, they already have 90% of the prodos fst
that they can use. And the big_prodos fst would use Gs/os limits on drive space, and
charater names etc.. Of course this is totally incompatible with prodos 8, but then
again any* other foreign fst is going to be incompatible with prodos 8 now isn't it..
This would have limits such as 4GB limit on drive size, and more robust character
names (the whole ascii set cept NUL of course), and stuff like that. Force
applications to become gs/os aware, and this would make them to be foreign fst aware
also..
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-09 10:22:40 EST
From: MikeW50
I would expect Apple to use the Mac HFS format for an FST that can access more than
32M. That wouldn't have any more compatibility problems than the last two solutions,
but would have the distinct advantage that the GS could read and write disks that
could then be popped into a Macintosh.
Mike Westerfield
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-12 19:15:43 EST
From: AFL Floyd
I'm with Mike. I would *much* rather see a HFS FST than a super duper ProDOS FST.
Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-12 20:32:37 EST
From: ShrinkIt
Amen, and it can't get here soon enough... :-)
andy
Subj: GSOS problems with old programs 88-12-10 21:41:43 EST
From: THE GIBBER Msgs: 7 (88-12-23)
I work at an apple dealership and I have had several complaints with older programs
not accepting disks that are formated with GSOS Prodos FST as being "real problems"
During this time of the year I don't have time to sit down and work this one out :)
However the situation is this. Bards Tale II //gs will accept disks formated with
system 3.1 and 3.2, however when I use GSOS I find that the program doesn't accept
these disks as prodos. I have used both interweaving systems and still I haven't
gotten a correct disk. Maybe when christmas is over I will have time to figure this
one out, but maybe You guys will have some answers for me. I think I need to call EA
(eletronic Arts) and tell them this one.
Thanks Alot
John Gibson
Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-10 23:15:40 EST
From: Matt DTS
There's a byte (byte $20 or $21, cause I can't remember if it's VERSION or MINVERSION
we're talking about here) that tells ProDOS what the minimum version of ProDOS is
necessary to read this disk. This was done so that if the directory structure ever
changed, the old ProDOS wouldn't try to read the disk.
Some programs (I believe an old version of ECP did this) accidentally put a value
other than zero in this field, and the ProDOS FST (which checks more than ProDOS 8
does) summarily refuses to read the disk, thinking that it can't. If you have a disk
that can't be read, make sure both bytes $20 and $21 of block 2 are zero and try
again.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-11 10:14:27 EST
From: THE GIBBER
Thanks Matt, But this is going from GSOS to a P-8 disk. The P-8 disk is refusing to
read the GSOS formated disk. I have several customers that are highly angry at this.
These people don't understand that when a new operating system comes on line there
are going to be some problems :) They want everything to work RIGHT NOW AND WORK
RIGHT; however they don't want to have to think about it. thanks for the info. I
will look into it and see if that maybe the problem.
aka
John K. Gibson
Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-11 11:03:15 EST
From: AFA Parik
John,
maybe some of these programs ARE looking for the version number. GS/OS uses P8 v1.7,
BT II GS may just search the version number (its available in the $BF00 page) and if
it doesn't matchup, no go.
Try putting a copy of the older ProDOS 8 on another disk (ram disk, etc), name it
anything you wish. Then launch this from the system disk. It'll be a little weird
since you'll have Prodos screens loaded twice (first to Load the 2nd proDOS 8, and
then once again the 2nd ProDOS 8 being loaded), however, the second prodos 8 should
take the priority. Now go into any utility from basic.system (oh yeah, put
BASIC.SYSTEM on the same disk :) such as Copy II+, Hyperformat, etc, anything that
formats a ProDOS disk, and format the 3.5.
Are you JUST using the Disk Utilities? Have you tried launching other formatting
programs?
Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-11 21:57:23 EST
From: Dave Lyons
On GS/OS (ProDOS FST) not recognizing old P8 disks: What Matt said, only it was TIC
2.03 and earlier rather than ECP that was the problem. If you'd used TIC and then
formatted a disk without rebooting ProDOS 8, there'd accidentally be a $01 at $BFFE,
which would get written to, I think, byte $21 of block 2 of your disk; the ProDOS FST
doesn't appreciate that.
Now, Gibber, what exactly is happening? You say that P8 doesn't like certain disks?
What does it do? Does the volume show up in an Online display? Is it having any
trouble reading blocks from the disk (does it take abnormally long to read?)? Do you
get any error messages
Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-23 23:13:43 EST
From: Dave Lyons
That's odd...I don't know why a ProDOS volume formatted under GS/OS would be
distinguishable from any other ProDOS volume. Are there differences in block 2? The
interleave (2:1 or 4:1) affects only order of blocks within a track & therefore the
amount of time it takes to read from the disk.
Subj: Finding drives 88-12-21 20:44:53 EST
From: Clayburn Msgs: 6 (89-01-02)
Does anyone know how GS/OS recognizes the different types of drives.
Clay
Subj: Disappearing Disk Cache in GSOS 89-01-06 22:41:55 EST
From: RickAllan Msgs: 2 (89-01-06)
I loaded a bunch (6) NDAs onto my GS/OS System Disk, and now the
Disk Cache Menu Item on the Apple Menu has disappeared! Has
anyone else experienced this? How can I keep both?
Subj: Re: Disappearing Disk Cache NDA 89-01-06 22:51:23 EST
From: AFL Jim
Rick, how many NDAs do you have in your DESK.ACCS directory? Is the cache NDA files
still in the DESK.ACCS directory?
Subj: GS/OS error messages 89-01-07 06:46:50 EST
From: AFL Oli Msgs: 15 (89-02-07)
Jim, any idea what "GS/OS Error $0043" is? We have someone running AppleWorks GS
over in the AppleWorks Forum who is getting this error message?
Is there a generally published list of GS/OS error messages that could be posted
here?
Thanks!
Oli
Subj: Re: $0043 According To GSOS.H 89-01-07 16:38:24 EST
From: Coach101
is invalid reference number.
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-07 21:42:15 EST
From: AFL Jim
Oli,
As mentioned above, GS/OS error $43 is an invalid reference number. Each open file is
assigned a reference number by GS/OS. This reference number is used instead of the
pathname for the Close, Flush, GetEOF, GetMark, NewLine, Read, SetEOF, SetMark and
Write GS/OS calls. If an unassigned reference number is passed to any of those calls,
GS/OS will return an invalid reference number error.
It sounds like a reference number is getting changed in memory.
I'll try to type in the list of possible GS/OS error numbers and what they mean. But,
without knowing what calls can return a specific error and why they return it, the
error messages may be meaningless for you.
Jim
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-08 09:46:28 EST
From: AFL Oli
Thanks for the info.. Perhaps when we pass this along to Claris, they will know what
to do with it... :)
Subj: GS/OS Error Code Chart 89-01-08 17:25:11 EST
From: AFL Jim
I've uploaded a chart that shows GS/OS error codes and which GS/OS calls can return
them to the Articles & Transcripts library. It's formatted and ready to print (7
pages - set your printer to 17 cpi).
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-12 02:38:26 EST
From: Guy Rice
Maybe the error should be passed on to Apple, not to Claris. I've gotten several
GS/OS $43 errors lately, and not while running any specific programs! I've gotten
$43 when launching programs before, but it was never anything I could duplicate... at
any rate, I make a Quit call, and GS/OS comes up with a "Error $43" and reboots when
you hit return. Usually happens only after I've been launching and quitting from
several different programs...
GTR
Subj: error $43 89-01-12 20:44:24 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Guy, do you remember whether the error $43s you were getting happened when quitting
to a launching application, or launching a new application? And was the next
application in an online volume?
Just trying to narrow this down a bit.
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-17 03:59:54 EST
From: Guy Rice
It's always when launching a new application, and it's the application is always on
an online volume (namely my hard drive).
The error also gives an address, and although I've never written it down, I'd be
willing to bet it's always the same address - seems to be it's at $Dxxx in Bank 0 -
aka the language card...
Next time it happens I'd get the exact address...
GTR
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-19 00:05:38 EST
From: Guy Rice
Got it! - It's happened twice since I posted that - same address both times - I get
this little box that looks something like this:
________________________________________
| |
| GS/OS System Error |
| |
| Address = $00D9FA LC bank = $0 |
| |
| Error code = $0043 |
| |
| Restart |
|________________________________________|
Of course, in the real box, it uses mousetext and "Restart" is highlighted. You
press return and reboot.
$00/D9FA is in the GS/OS reserved memory - which leads me to believe the error is due
to a bug in that code - in GS/OS itself, and not in any of the applications I'm
running. After all, this is an error that comes up when making a GS/OS Quit call!
How can you have an error $43 on a Quit call? The exact same quit call gives no
error if you reboot and start from scratch, though. This only happens after
launching and quitting from several applications...
GTR
Subj: GS/OS error during a QUIT 89-01-19 03:50:01 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Guy, I'll see what I can figure out from that. What were you Quitting to at the
time?
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-22 01:14:46 EST
From: Guy Rice
It seems to be random... I've had it give me that message when quitting to lots of
different places... seems to me it's always an S16 program, though... maybe not
though... I really haven't noticed any pattern other than it's after I've been
running for a while going thru many different programs...
GTR
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-29 23:15:06 EST
From: Matt DTS
You know what it sounds like to me? Sounds like someone is CLOSEing a file that
doesn't belong to them. Maybe a DA or someone hanging around memory is doing a CLOSE
with refNum zero, when they shouldn't be. Do any of you know if you have the same
DAs lying around?
The fatal error could be occuring when this thing closes a file that GS/OS has opened
for internal use, such as */SYSTEM/P8 when switching the OS, for example.
Any more details are of course, appreciated.
--Matt
Subj: NDAs closing system's files 89-01-30 22:29:14 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Hey! I hadn't thought of that, Matt, but that sounds like a very reasonable
explanation. Assuming that the system opens some file and _then_ calls DeskShutdown
before the OS switch, any CDA or NDA doing a CLOSE(0) during its Shutdown routine
would explain it.
Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-02-07 01:02:53 EST
From: Guy Rice
Hmmm... interesting... I'll have to try removing some NDAs and CDAs and see what
happens... and keep an eye on what DA's I've been using before this occurs...
GTR
Subj: SubjLns, start.gs.os, vol damage 89-01-14 03:51:23 EST
From: Dave Lyons
>First a gripe. Would people from now, not keep on reusing the
>RE: line, I scan through messages, and see a thousand Re: lines,
>and no new description lines.. Maybe a change in software?
Some people will and some won't. :) I wouldn't mind seeing the software changed to
start with the subject field blank and require it to be nonblank, but I bet we'd
start seeing lots of subjects like "x" and "stuff" and "misc"....
>Anyway why does GS/OS not like the filename of 'start.gs.os'
>very much at all.
It seems to like it just fine to me...I'd be _extremely_ surprised to find any
_special_ handling of a particular filename outside the boot process.
>In installing gsos long time ago, I had problems, and now I am
>having problems with it again. Using a generic copy program,
>copying it from the system disk. (ie copy
> /system.disk/system/start.gs.os /hard1/system/start.gs.os)
>sometimes (actually quite a bit) it will lose it. Ie. It says >copy is ok, then I go
and catalog, and presto it isn't there...
Interesting. What "generic copy program" were you using? Have you run Mr.Fixit on
/hard1? There are conditions a directory can get into where stuff like that might
happen...a bad EOF on the dir, maybe?
>Also now I have 'start.gs.os' in my system directory, and now
>'prodos' boot strap loader says it can't load it (due to file
>not found error). Does gs/os look for this, when you are opening
>a file??
START.GS.OS is used during boot. You can't execute the PRODOS file directly (it
isn't guaranteed to work and usually doesn't). That might explain your problem,
since you didn't say whether you were booting or what.
>Also I found some glitches in block 1, and was wondering if any
>legit. software would leave anything there. Otherwise the >directory entries look
perfect...
What are "glitches" in block 1? The block 1 on a GS/OS-formatted ProDOS volume is
full of zeroes, I think (it isn't used), and previously block 1 had "SOS" boot code
(for the Apple ///).
>Also I am getting sick of gs/os watch dogging over me, [...]
>saying that my disk directory structure is damaged.
I'd pay attention to those warnings and run Mr.Fixit or something. Whenever I get
one of those messages, something really _is_ wrong. If you go delete the files and
that gets rid of the messages, that doesn't guarantee everything is peachy...I'd feel
a lot safer running a volume-check utility.
--Dave Lyon
Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-14 15:47:02 EST
From: Scott113
I've got a Unidisk 3.5 with my Gs. It does not disk cache on most programs. I was
wondering if GS/OS would have problems running under my present system. Does anyone
know?
Subj: Start.gs.os.stuff 89-01-14 17:47:35 EST
From: DougMac
heh. couldn't resist. Anyway yes I am booting. So the boot procedure would be execute
block0 -> prodos -> whatever prodos loads like start.gs.os. But I have run mr. fixit
on the whole hard drive, and nothing but those little lost files turn up errors. Like
I said, I looked at the dir structure with a block editor, and it looked fine to me.
I can't imagine why gsos doesn't like that file, otherthan this happened to me on
Friday the 13th..
Now I'm going to have to back up the hard drive yet again, and do a soft-format on
it, see if that helps. Otherwise I might actually have to do a hard format.
Yuck...40M of file copying to get defragmentation is not* my idea of fun..
The little lost files, have nothing wrong with them, but having the EOF past the
physical end of the file. looking through a block editor program, the block counts
are fine, but EOFs are bad. So if I could delete them, they would be fine. The
directory structure isn't as damaged as gsos thinks it is...
Subj: UniDisk 3.5 and GS/OS 89-01-15 01:12:47 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Scott, if you have installed the UNIDISK3.5 driver, I think you will have exactly the
same amount of caching as someone with an Apple 3.5. There shouldn't be a problem.
Typically _directories_ will be cached but not much else these days, until
GS/OS-specific programs get written that are smart enough to ask for _important_
parts of important files to be cached as they are read or written.
Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-19 03:12:35 EST
From: Mark TMM
Dave in effect executing the PRODOS program shoudl bott GS/OS
(I have actually posted this message before in a different forum but its been
pushed down two continues so I doubt anyone has seen it.)
Not to be picky with Apple (since they can change their code), but it seems to me
that starting GS/OS from ProDOS8 is perfectly legal.(And therfore should be
supported) The following references are to the GS/OS Apda Beta manual Appendix D.
brackets are mine i.e. {}
p. 307. "boot codes searches disk... PRODOS... loaded and executed" {at $2000}
{in my case boots my ProDOS 8, then when wanted I can -BOOT.GSOS which in effect
executes it at $2000}
PRODOS {BOOT.GSOS} "loads the file */SYSTEM/START.GS.OS"
"START.GS.OS relocates part of */PRODOS" {*/BOOT.GSOS is at the same location} so as
far as START.GS.OS is concerened IT IS relocating part of PRODOS}
START.GS.OS then goes ahead and finishes the boot process.
p. 308 SYSTEM startup from non-ProDOS volumes
{in my case ProDOS8}
"...a boot file containing the startup routine and file-system specific routines
required by GLoader and GQuit. The boot file is a replacement for the file PRODOS"
{well what I have done is make BOOT.GSOS MY replacement file for PRODOS and since it
is a legal SYS file it should operate from ProDOS8}
Therefore in the GS/OS manual it seems that as long as the machine has been set up
properly before executing START.GS.OS the boot process of GS/OS should behave
"normally" :)
I boot into ProDOS 8 everyday before going (by choice) to GS/OS
Mark (The Modifier)
Subj: -PRODOS supported? 89-01-19 03:45:58 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Mark, Apple's official position is that executing the PRODOS file outside the boot
process is not supported. The description of the boot process isn't very
detailed--it doesn't describe all the various conditions that are normally set up
during a boot.
In practice, I think running the PRODOS file (or your renamed copy of it) will _work_
(although it will still not be _guaranteed_ to work in the future) _if_ you put $Cn
at $07F8, where n is the slot you're trying to boot from. You may need to turn off
the 80-column firmware for this to work--not sure.
--Dave Lyons
Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-21 02:46:01 EST
From: TinderFoot
It seems detailed enough for me as I listed. I've sent the message to AII DTS for
his opinion.
Mark TMM (In disguise)
Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-25 14:08:58 EST
From: AFL Floyd
Mark,
If your method works that's great. All Apple is saying is they don't support it and
it could change in the future. "-PRODOS" alone is definitely not supported and never
has been. It just so happens that in the past it worked fine.
But you'll find that out when AIIDTS gets back to you. :) I hope you sent your
message by the other AppleLink and not here because AIIDTS does not officially answer
technical questions here.
Floyd
Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-02-05 18:06:31 EST
From: Rob Turner
Doug,
The ProDOS FST never checks the EOF of a file to see if the directory is damaged.
The EOF of a file can be in the range 0 to 16meg-1. This is one case of a sparse
file. The ProDOS FST does check things in the directory that ProDOS8/16 did not. So
if ProDOS8/16 is happy that does NOT mean your disk is ok. I hope this helps.
Take Care...
Rob Turner (GS/OS team (ProDOS FST etc.))
Subj: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-14 19:24:51 EST
From: Ralfy Msgs: 17 (89-01-29)
I am unable to use Shrconvert under GS/OS. It boots correctly(?), but when I attempt
to load a file, it presents a disk menu which is only partually filled in. No disk
or file names. After that, it sometimes locks up the system and I have to re-boot.
Note: I can only re-boot by turning off the computer. Any attempt to re-boot with '3
fingers' or reset results in 'Fatal Error 681.' What am I doing wrong? I copyed
GS/OS to my hard disk by copying the entire contents of the 3.5 system disk using
Prosel. Should I re-do it with the Installer program? Why??
I saw a comment on GEnie that Shrconvert worked better under GS/OS than under version
3.2.
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 01:06:39 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Are you using SHRConvert 2.1? Works great for me under GS/OS.
How much memory do you have in your system, and how much is taken up by DAs?
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 10:57:23 EST
From: Ralfy
I have 1.25 meg, and the RAM disk display in the Control Panel (when viewed from the
Desktop) shows close to 600k unused. There is a 128k RAM disk defined. I am using
Shrconvert version 2.1.
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 22:57:23 EST
From: ScottG25
Do you get the "Purge-O-Matic is running...Please wait" message when you execute
SHRConvrt.FINDER? Also, you might try it without a Ramdisk, and with the CACHE size
set to zero... If all else fails, you might have to re-down load the program :(
SG
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 22:57:38 EST
From: AFA Gary J
I don't think lack of memory is the problem, although I'm not exactly sure WHAT the
problem is. I had the same thing happen to me the first time I ran SHR Convert under
GS/OS. But ALMOST every time since then, it has worked beautifully. The only thing
I can figure is that it had something to do with whatever program I had run before,
and whatever garbage in memory it left behind.
Gary
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 18:06:25 EST
From: Ralfy
The first time I ran Shrconvert there was a message 'Auto Scratch Running.' Since
then, I think I've seen something flash by (too fast to read) occasionally. I've
tried booting from the official disk that came in the Apple box, and have
re-downloaded Shrcomvert. No luck.
A friend of mine down-loaded every GS/OS message from GEnie and printed them. (He is
planning to get a GS.) I've read thru the 1st 1/2 inch and saw one message from
some-one having the same problem. It seems like GS/OS behaves differently for
different people. Some people report no problems. Others have all sorts of odd
results. I am beginning to suspect some subtle bug(s) which are dependent on memory
size, devices attached, etc.etc.
I'll set the cashe to 0 and the ram disk to 0 and try a conpletely cold boot. (I've
tried a cold boot already.)
See next message.......
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 18:36:03 EST
From: Ralfy
Back again.... Nothing worked.
Set cashe and Ram disk to zero, turned off the computer and let it rest for about a
minute, and re-booted.
I've been booting into Prosel from slot 5, then running a Basic program which does a
'PR#7'. I just set the boot slot to 7 and re-booted after using Shutdown. That
didn't do it either.
It begins to look (unless someone gets a brilliant idea) like I'll have to run
Shrconvert from 3.2.
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 20:29:16 EST
From: ScottG25
Brilliant idea...;) Try booting straight into the finder, then running
SHRConvert.Finder....
BI, 2..... Did you perhaps execute "install everything" when you installed GS/OS?
If so, try deleting the drivers you don't need... Then rebooting straight into the
finder...
BI, 3..... Are you sure the RAM on your memory card is CAS before RAS? I have a
list of chip types that are if you need it... I left it at work today :(
Scott
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 21:51:11 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Yes, I would suggest trying to launch SHR Convert in different methods. I also agree
with Scott's other suggestions. Like I said in a previous post, mine did the exact
same thing as you are describing at one time, but it DOES work now. I also did some
swapping of my RAM chips somewhere in between the time when it didn't work, and then
when it did, so I'm not totally sure what finally did the trick.
Gary
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-17 18:01:27 EST
From: Ralfy
Scott - B I #1 worked (about 95%). When booting from the SHR Convert Finder, the
info in the disk menu (and in Help) is all filled in. However, when I switch disks,
the 'open' button on my other hard disk is dimmed. Hmmm. I'll poke around and see
if I can figure out why.
Thanks for the help. (Both of you.)
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-17 19:28:10 EST
From: ScottG25
Hey, that's great!!!:) I'm at a loss about the dimmed open button.... unless the
disk isn't in prodos format... A while back, there was a problem with the SFGetFile
dialog that would do very strange things if it couldn't read files from the disk, it
should be fixed by now, tho... Anyrate, try that same disk that wouldn't open in
SHRConvert under the finder. See if it will open there.. If there is anything else we
can do for you, let us know!
Scott
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-18 21:57:36 EST
From: DennisDoms
There may be something about the boot block or volume directory on the "dimmed disk"
that GS/OS doesn't like (anyone else have any specifics on this?)...
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-19 07:31:34 EST
From: AFL Scott
Dave,
A while back, I had discovered a bug in _SFGetFile that if a volume was corrupt in a
strange way (volume name was readable, but the contents of the volume were not) the
thing would hang right there... somewhere in this forum is a more accurate
description... RE: Open.. You're right.
Scott
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-19 23:16:39 EST
From: AFL Floyd
Jason Harper, the author of SHR Convert, has mentioned that there is a bug in v2.1
that *sometimes* causes problems and he suggests using the SHR Convert Finder program
to startup SHR Convert. This usually fixes the problem for those having one. It
works fine without running the purge program first for me though. The bug only
surfaces during certain memory configurations.
The next version of SHR Convert is supposed to have this fixed.
Floyd
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-29 23:26:32 EST
From: Matt DTS
I should add, since it was asked:
It's always better to run the Installer, because there might be new things on the
OTHER disk (/SYSTEM.TOOLS) that you need. For example, if you have UniDisk 3.5
drives on your IIgs, as I do, you MUST install the UniDisk 3.5 driver or eventually
you will trash disks due to caching. If you just copied /SYSTEM.TOOLS to your hard
drive, you don't have that driver installed.
--Matt
Subj: hard.disk ignored 89-02-06 21:23:34 EST
From: DwightW1 Msgs: 7 (89-02-19)
i have, connected to my IIgs the following peripherals: a 40sc
hard disk drive, a 60 plus rodime hard disk, two 3.5 floppy disk
drives, and two 5.25 floppy disk drives. there is also an apple
LQ printer. believe me i need all of this in my programming.
the gs/os operating system doesn't like my arrangement very much
apparently. i would like to see ALL these peripherals on my
desktop, booting from the 40sc hard drive (scsi card, slot #7).
would some one kindly, step by step outline what i should do to
accomplish this.
incidently, currently to get into the gs/os operating system,
i have to boot the computer from the 3.5 disk drive, slot 5/drive 1. the desktop
shows online: 'ram5', the two 5.25 floppy disk drives, and the two 3.5 drives. the
hard disk drives are completely ignored even though the installer program was
utilized
to install the hard disk drives onto the backup gs/os boot disk.
thank you to any one who can help.
dwight
Subj: SCSI ROM Revision C 89-02-06 23:35:03 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Dwight, it sounds like you have already installed the SCSI.DRIVER on your boot disk
(the 3.5 now), so my best guess is that the ROM on your Apple SCSI card is not
Revision C. The ROM is at the top center of the card, and the part number you need
for Rev C is 341-0437-A. (Yes, the part number has no C in it, confusingly enough.
No doubt this was handled by the same person who decided that ROM 01 is called ROM
2.0. :-)
Subj: Re: Hard Disk Ignored 89-02-06 23:36:39 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Dwight,
I'd like to have a few things clarified here....
How is your Rodime drive connected? (Daisy chained to the SC40 drive on the SCSI
card in slot 7?)
Can either of your hard drives be accessed from ProDOS 8 or previous versions of
ProDOS 16?
Is your SCSI card the Apple brand? If so, do you have the Revision "C" upgrade on
your Apple SCSI card?
Gary
Subj: Re: hard.disk ignored 89-02-08 22:50:38 EST
From: DwightW1
Gary:
you and dave hit my problem right on the noise: my scsi card, no
doubt, needs updating!
i never thought about that as a possibility!
to answer your question specifically: my rodime hard disk is used
as a backup for the apple 40sc hard disk drive, therefore it has
second priority behind the apple drive, both on the same scsi
card in slot #7. the rodine drive's cable is piggy-backed to the
apple hard disk drive.
i will plan to go out right away and update the scsi card.
will tell both of you what happens.
again thanks to both of you.
dwight
Subj: Re: hard.disk ignored 89-02-17 02:38:29 EST
From: Matt DTS
Dennis, I would be interested to know if the card has a SmartPort interface, and if
it does, what the type and subtype bytes it returns are.
--Matt
Subj: Re: hard.disk ignored HUH? 89-02-19 16:49:00 EST
From: Pogo5
DWight what do you mean it displays a 3.5 drive? Gs/Os (at least for me) HAS NO 3.5
DRIVE ICON! it does have an icon for 3.5 disks though!
Subj: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-02-19 19:21:11 EST
From: SamT2 Msgs: 7 (89-04-15)
I seem to have problems with GSOS loosing itself when I specify a volume prefix that
isn't online at the moment. This happens when I specify a disk that isn't in a drive
or when I accidently specify a bad volume name. When I specify a disk that just
ins't in a drive and can get it in before GSOS has made its rounds too many times, it
seems to recover. But if it makes a couple of rounds or if I accidently give a bogus
disk name, then GSOS gets into a volume scan loop and doesn't ever seem to tire of
running in circles. RESET seems to be the only way out.
Has anyone else seen this? Is there a solution? (besides being a lot more careful)
Sam
Subj: prefixing to offline volumes 89-02-19 19:41:10 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Sam, as far as I know GS/OS doesn't care whether your prefixes point to online
volumes or not, and it doesn't poll the drives when the prefix is set. Also, I've
never seen a single GS/OS call poll the drives more than once.
The _real_ question here is what APPLICATION you are using. I bet the application is
confused, not GS/OS.
Subj: Re: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-02-21 22:03:07 EST
From: Matt DTS
Dave is right. GS/OS will happily accept ":I love my sister's pet python" as a
prefix. It's when you try to use it that you'll get syntax errors, or volume not
found errors, or something.
Sounds to me like the program you're using looks for the disk in the prefix (maybe to
do a GetDirEntry or Open on it) and if it gets Volume Not Found, just keeps looking
until it does.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-02-25 11:06:28 EST
From: SamT2
Could be a poorly written application. One of the ones that I have had problems with
is AppleLink PE. I think that I have had problems with others.
Subj: excess drive polling 89-02-25 13:47:00 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Actually, it sounds like the thing needs a whole bunch of different files, and for
each one it's looking for a particular volume (that doesn't happen to be online), and
_then_ it's looking in a second location and finding the files. (It ought to just
look for the volume once, and then look for all the files in the second location if
it doesn't find the volume.)
Gee, are there any file systems where ":I love my sister's pet python:" is a valid
volume name? If we had an HFS FST, would that be valid (29 characters)? What's the
longest High Sierra vol name?
Subj: File system conventions 89-02-26 16:07:03 EST
From: Matt DTS
Actually, off the top of my head, I don't know of any file systems where ":I love my
sister's pet python" would be a valid volume name. I believe that HFS allows 31
characters for file names but only 28 for disk names.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-04-15 20:25:30 EST
From: BurgerBill
So when are we going to have an FST that can support "I love my sister's pet python"?
Subj: Mr. Fixit 89-02-20 20:18:19 EST
From: MikeW50
I have seen GS/OS complain about disks when Mr. Fixit dod not see anything wrong that
looked significant, but when I asked it to fix the insignificant stuff, GS/OS was
happy. You might try that.
In general, though, if you reformat the disk and recopy your files, GS/OS will
probably be happy.
Mike Westerfield
Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-20 20:43:05 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Well, the other problem I have with two of the files on my disk is a bad block error.
This can't be fixed with the fixer program, as I have tried. I would suspect those
two files as being the culprits, but those same files had that problem BEFORE I
started getting these GS/OS errors. The problem with GS/OS cropped up AFTER I tried
to delete one of the two files with the bad blocks. I was using ACU at the time, and
while it was trying to delete the file it went into an endless loop. I had to press
CTRL-reset to abort the situation. For some reason this left a bunch of other files
on the disk with freed blocks. The fixer program fixed those files, but not the
GS/OS problem. I suspect that the root directory was damaged in some way, but I am
not sure.
Besides, that really doesn't have anything to do with my question. I REALLY want to
find out what GS/OS is looking for in this situation that previous versions of ProDOS
doesn't. I know how to solve my problem (re-initialize), but that won't cure my
curiosity. :)
Gary
Subj: Re: A Wild Guess..... 89-02-20 22:10:08 EST
From: Coach101
I had a similar problem (though I got into it via a real dumb
mistake on my part). I think what has happened is that the
directory (or sub-directory) that contains the file with the
bad blocks is now (from the ProDos FST's point of view) no longer
self consistent. I believe that when you started the delete
operation some sort of change was made (started) to the directory
structure that was not completed when you ran into the bad
block. I never took the time to fully pursue my problem but I
recall a discussion someplace about the ProDos FST being picky
about finding the correct number of "live" entries in directory
structure. My guess is that the directory indicates that it has
either one more (or, possibly more probably, one less) entry than
the FST is finding when it traverses the directory structure.
I got rid of my problem by deleting the sub-directory (left some
un-retrievable used blocks on the disk, but no big deal).
By the way, is the "MrFixit" utility I read about from time to
time available someplace here on ALPE?
Subj: Good Guess...But No Cigar. 89-02-21 00:08:38 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Coach,
That sounds good, but the file I was trying to delete was not in the main directory.
However, the total blocks USED bytes are in the volume header, and that could
possibly be my problem. I have been poking around with the GS/OS System Call
Exerciser and have discovered that my problem pops up when I try to do a GetFileInfo
call on my damaged volume. It gives me the same error message I mentioned in my
first post (with the 40 -column text screen..) and then pops back into the Exerciser
call window with a "Error $005A: block no. out of range" Error. I'm going to take a
long hard look at the volume header info and see if I can find a problem there.
Gary
Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-21 01:27:56 EST
From: Rob Turner
The problem might be a damaged bitmap or the ProDOS fst is trying to read a block
that is greater then the size of the volume. My guess is that the bitmap is not
correct.
Good Luck...
Rob Turner.
Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-21 19:46:38 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Rob, if there was a 1 in the bitmap past the highest block existing on the volume,
would that cause error $5A? (I suppose I could try it.) It would make sense:
GET_FILE_INFO on the volume needs to read the bitmap and compute the number of used
blocks, right?
Coach, Mr.Fixit is part of Glen Bredon's ProSel package. ProSel owners can download
_encrypted_ updates to the various ProSel utilities from the AUT forum, but the
package itself is commercial. $40 from Glen Bredon, 521 State Road, Princeton NJ
08540. (I've almost got that memorized well enough that I don't need to check it.)
The $40 is for ProSel 8. ProSel 16, which includes ProSel 8, is $60, or $20 if you
already own ProSel 8.
Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-21 22:00:03 EST
From: Matt DTS
The Initialize/Eject dialog is created by the Finder. The dialog after you click
"Initialize" that asks you for File System and Interleave is created by GS/OS.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-22 00:13:14 EST
From: Rob Turner
Dave,
You guessed it. The ProDOS FST checks to make sure that ALL bytes that are suppose
to be zero are in fact zero. It there are bytes past the last valid byte that are
not zero the ProDOS FST will tell you that your disk may be damaged. Of course we
all know that IS damaged otherwise the bytes would be zero. ProDOS8/16 did not check
the trailing zeros. I added it for extra security. Once the message appears the
ProDOS FST software write protects the disk so the user cannot damage the disk
futher.
Good job...
Rob Turner (GS/OS)
Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-22 01:25:44 EST
From: AFA Parik
I don't know if its related, but I've had error #$5A appear before (Under P8 also!)
and the files were really screwed up...couldn't delete them, touch them, etc. Thats
what happens when you have two computers hooked up to one hard drive and you write at
the same time. :(
[guess who keeps a daily backup? LOL]
Subj: Error $5a under P8 89-02-22 01:38:44 EST
From: Dave Lyons
I think you get error $5A under ProDOS 8 if you try to DESTROY a file that has a
fried index block. In other words, when P8 has to mark a block "free" in the bitmap
and notices that the block number is too big. If you just read/write files with
trashed index blocks, I think you just get I/O errors (it doesn't try to find the
block in the bitmap, and the I/O error from the block-level driver gets passed back
up).
Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-22 01:52:13 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Bingo! That did the trick. I have a 62 meg hard drive with two 31 meg volumes, so I
calculated how many blocks it would take to make up the bit map, and it just happens
to leave one half block unused at the end of the bit map. At least it was SUPPOSED
to be unused. The culprit, in this case, happened to be a single bit set in the
first byte of that sector of the block. I changed that byte to zero, and GS/OS was
happy! No more error message. I still don't trust the volume. I don't know how the
two files on my disk got "block in use" errors (if anyone has ideas on this, I'd like
to hear them!).
So, I will now be able to re-format the volume. At least my curiosity is satisfied.
:) Thanks Dave, and all of you for your help!
Gary
Subj: Re: But The Bug Is Still There.. 89-02-24 21:49:36 EST
From: Coach101
From your description, it would seem that when you tried to
delete the file with bad blocks the system _may_ have started
freeing blocks up without making an integrity test to see that
the block was legal. That could be how the bad bits got into
the bit-map. If that happened with anything other than the
ProDos FST under GsOs, I guess we should chalk it up to a known
but infrequently triggered bug in prior, and frozen, versions of
Apple II operating systems. If it happened with the ProDos FST
under GsOs, maybe someone at Apple would be interested in seeing
that it does not happen in future releases.
You were not clear as to what operating system was being used for
the delete operation. Out of curiousity, which was it?
Subj: When I Deleted..... 89-02-25 02:13:56 EST
From: AFA Gary J
When I was deleting the file, I was running ACU under ProDOS 8. It was the most
current version of ProDOS 8. It is what was installed under GS/OS.
Gary
Subj: I/O errors on delete 89-02-26 06:47:27 EST
From: Dave Lyons
That's a good explanation, Michael. Tom's article was the result of a week or so of
discussion on GEnie about the problem...I was there. I _hope_ future versions of
ProDOS 8 are modified so that they mark the file Deleted in the directory _before_
freeing any blocks or reversing the index block.
The only part of that explanation I don't necessarily agree with is the "gradually"
right before "corrupt more and more files on the volume." :-) It _could_ be
gradual...or you could be unlucky enough to have the original file contain block
number $0600, $0700, etc (depending on the size of your volume), so that the
byte-swapped block number is one of your bitmap blocks, which gets freed! Very icky.
What it boils down to is that you should be _very_ careful what you do if you get an
I/O error during a Delete under ProDOS 8 1.3 to 1.7. In particular, _don't_ just try
to delete the same file again. (I don't know how the ProDOS FST on System Disk 4.0
behaves, and I don't know for sure whether future ProDOS 8's will be changed.)
I suppose I might as well save Matt the trouble of pointing out that ProDOS 8's
behavior after getting an I/O error on a Delete is _not_ necessarily a bug,
technically. "All bets are off" w.r.t. file system integrity after an I/O error
during an operation that writes to disk. In general that's a good point...there no
way the OS can guarantee your volume's integrity in general when it tries to write &
can't. But in this particular case it's icky, because it could just as easily leave
your volume in a _stable_ bug slightly-damaged state, rather than a very unstable
state. (A "stable" damaged state means there are blocks marked used in the bitmap
that aren't really used, but everything else is peachy.)
Subj: Re: I Have To Call It A Bug... 89-02-26 11:45:26 EST
From: Coach101
The point about not being able to "guarantee" integrity in the
face of a _write-error_ is well taken. However, I AGREE with
Dave fully, and being a highly opinionated person, probably more
strongly. When face with an error, or when doing operations that
could be _icky_ in the face of errors, it is the responsibility
of the operating system to be very conservative. The payoff,
possibly speed, has to be enormous to justify not being
conservative.
Even with the most prudent and conservative file backup
strategies, data is not necessarily replaceable or regenerable!!
Subj: opinionatedness 89-02-26 14:36:20 EST
From: Dave Lyons
What's that, Coach? You agree with me more strongly than I agree with myself? :-)
Subj: Deleting Bad Block Files 89-02-26 22:08:20 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Thanks for the info, Mike. (I saw that in Open Apple... er... A2 Central and
forgot about it..)
Gary
Subj: Re: AppleLink University 89-03-01 21:35:09 EST
From: Coach101
Well Dave, do you know if they offer a "bonehead english" course
in the AppleLink University? Looks like I need a refresher on
sentence construction.
Subj: Re:P8 "delete" glitches 89-03-01 21:58:44 EST
From: DennisDoms
Just for "credit where credit is due", Glen Bredon is the first person that seemed to
have sniffed out that problem with an error during "delete". It explained several
glitches we had received reports of at _A2-Central_. :)
Subj: GSOS/5 1/4 drive 89-02-25 23:45:21 EST
From: DarrylK1 Msgs: 2 (89-02-26)
I have a 40 meg chinook, a 3 1/2 drive 2 5 1/4 drives, my problem is I loaded AWGS
onto the hard drive and use the GSOS that came with it as my launcher. For some
reason it won't recognize the 5 1/4 drives. How come?
Subj: APPLEDISK5.25 driver 89-02-26 02:46:20 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Have you installed the APPLEDISK5.25 driver using the Installer?
If so, is its "Inactive" check box turned off in the Get Info... window in the
Finder? (Open the boot disk, open the System folder, open the Drivers folder, select
APPLEDISK5.25, and choose Get Info....)
Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:01:19 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Doc Arcane, other users have had problems like yours, yes. I hope you don't mind if
I go ahead and tell you what the problem probably is and how to fix it, even though
you specifically said you weren't asking that. :-)
Most likely you are using AppleWorks 2.0, and you have some New Desk Accessories
(NDAs) in your SYSTEM/DESK.ACCS folder of your boot disk. AppleWorks 2.0 has a bug
where it informs desk accessories that the desktop environment has been started up,
when in fact it has not (AppleWorks is a text-based program). With many NDAs, this
is not a problem, but with some it is. It's an AppleWorks bug that does not show up
until you install certain NDAs.
Solutions: Use AppleWorks 2.1; or remove the offending NDAs if you don't use them
anyway; or reboot from ProDOS 8 when you want to run AppleWorks; or patch your copy
of AppleWorks 2.0 to remove the bug (see back issues of Open Apple or inCider/A+
(don't remember which one of those printed a patch), or ask here & someone can dig up
a patch).
--Dave
Subj: Patch for 2.0 89-03-02 20:07:51 EST
From: AFL Floyd
I posted the patch for AppleWorks 2.0 in the AppleWorks Forum under "Patch Mania" (I
think).
Floyd
Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:20:03 EST
From: HDH
In some programs on the Macintosh I know if I use the Finder on a word processed icon
that it automatically boots up the word processing program that that icon belongs to.
I've tried to do the same thing with my Appleworks files using the Finder in
GS/OS. I always get the same message Can't find Apleworks.System. Since I use Ultra
Macros, Apleworks.System has been renamed Apleworks.Sys. Is there any way I can get
the Finder to realize this and boot up the document via Ultra.System? Or must I
always boot up Appleworks and then get my documents from within?
hdh
Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:33:19 EST
From: CecilFret
Interesting. I am running AppleWorks 2.0 using a 20 MB CMS drive and the Finder. I
have had no problems.
Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:40:31 EST
From: Matt DTS
Cecil: It's like Dave said - sometimes the _FixAppleMenu call causes problems,
sometimes it doesn't. For you, it doesn't. But an upgrade to 2.1 is still probably
wise, especially since it's free (I think).
HDH: To change your situation, use an icon editor (like DAL Systems' "DIcEd") to
change the pathname associated with the AppleWorks WP, SS and DB icons to the
pathname of your ULTRA.SYSTEM file. AppleWorks won't automatically load the file for
you, but it will launch when you double-click an AppleWorks data file icon.
--Matt
Subj: DeskStartup/DeskShutdown; icons 89-03-03 00:18:35 EST
From: Dave Lyons
(Matt, it's DeskStartup and DeskShutdown that are the problem; as far as I know,
AppleWorks never calls FixAppleMenu.)
Yes, DIcEd (available in the AUT libraries under GS Utilities: Icons and Icon
Editors) will do the trick. Use it to edit the FINDER.ICONS file on your boot disk.
Too bad AppleWorks doesn't support the MessageCenter and actually load the file or
files you clicked on.
Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-03 21:35:59 EST
From: AFA Parik
AW GS does automatically load up the document when you click it, right (in the
process loading up AW GS)...
Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-04 01:09:32 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Yes, AWGS supports the message center. I don't think the Finder will let you Open,
say, an AWGS Word Processing document and an AWGS Graphics document at the same time,
though. Too bad, because it wouldn't be a problem for the application...it would
make a lot of sense.
Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-10 04:53:44 EST
From: Dave HDS
You mean something like holding shift down and selecting multiple document icons?
One problem I see is that you could select documents from more than one application
(or from two different applications). Which gets ran? And what does the application
do with message center messages to start files that are not it's own? Perhaps you
can restrict it so that you can only select those files that all share the same
creator. It would be a nice feature, though, especially for something like AWGS...
Subj: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-12 19:30:19 EST
From: HyperRam Msgs: 19 (89-03-29)
I have been downloading a lot of files from Alink. (nda's) And when I use Control
Panel Nda or something else, it some times crashes. I dont know what disks are
effected! Sometimes the trash dissapears! I need a commercial virus checker for all
disks including Harddrives. And that it checks it! Not just suspects it! Help I got
69 3.5" disks and I don't know what is wrong! Help!!!
Subj: WHAT TO PUT IN THIS FOLDER. 89-03-12 19:31:26 EST
From: HyperRam
If you have had GS/OS crashing alot. Comment here!
HyperRam
Subj: Try this: 89-03-12 20:06:45 EST
From: A2Pro Tim
Remove all of your desk accessories, except for the CACHE NDA and then reboot - does
your system still crash? Put the desk accessories back in one at a time and reboot
between each one. More than likely, you've got a desk accessory that is incompatible
with GS/OS (sorry, but it happens).
Subj: viruses are not the problem 89-03-12 22:59:08 EST
From: Dave Lyons
HyperRam, based on the first message in this folder _and_ the other correspondence
between us in the last week or so, I'm confident that your problems come from bugs in
one or more of the CDAs or NDAs you are using.
BUGS AND VIRUSES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!
Viruses are programs that are designed to spread themselves into other programs,
changing those programs on disk. There are only two viruses that I know of that
affect the Apple II, and both of them affect _only_ ProDOS 8 SYS files, not CDAs,
NDAs, or Apple IIgs applications (S16 or EXE files).
Those two viruses are called Festering Hate and CyberAIDS. Again, they only affect
SYS files that run under ProDOS 8. There are programs that can detect those viruses
with 100% certainty.
On the other hand, it is _impossible_, both in theory and in practice, to write a
program that can automatically analyze other programs and correctly classify them as
"safe" or "not safe."
Ideal virus detectors can't exist. The best that can be done is what some existing
programs do: they look for "suspicious" patterns of bytes in files that seem to have
certain purposes (like setting the clock, or formatting a 5.25 disk).
Detectors like this are almost useless. They often give warnings where the code has
a perfectly legitimate purpose, and if somebody really _does_ bother to hide
destructive code inside a program, they could easily keep that part of the program in
a special coded format and have the program decode it when it was ready to be used.
So: keep decent backups and don't waste too much time worrying about viruses. Let
us know what you find out about your CDAs and NDAs, and let's pin down any and all
bugs and get their authors to fix 'em up.
--Dave Lyons
Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-15 22:10:35 EST
From: DennisDoms
I've been using GS/OS since September 1988 (AppleFest) for probably 10+ hours a day
average (computers at work and home) and I've _never_ had a crash I can attribute to
GS/OS. It's usually one or more other factors:
1) Badly written software (If I change my system configuration in terms of DA's, etc.
and things go goofy, I go back to the old configuration and add things more slowly
next time and test them).
2) Too little memory (can be a combination of slightly greater memory use by GS/OS
and any DA's or other memory hogs I've added).
3) Heat effects (I have not had a single "0911 error" since adding a fan to my
system).
4) Bad memory chips (well, I haven't had this problem with GS/OS but I had it with
ProDOS 16, and I have seen it recur with some users and GS/OS). Usually
non-CAS-before-RAS; even if you know that "mine are good", check this again if you
have recurring crashes with software that uses the IIgs expansion memory.
The list goes on; there are a lot of things that can crop up with a machine as
intricate as a computer, especially when users "mix and match" hardware and software
components. The point is that knowing what the symptoms are of a crash and the
conditions that are in effect at the time are more important than a guess as to the
cause. As Matt DTS said elsewhere, there are a lot of crashes hastily attributed to
GS/OS with no solid evidence (GS/OS may not be perfect, but it's a blazing good first
cut at a new OS).
Subj: Re: System Error $1102 89-03-24 00:14:27 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Orch,
What version of the operating system are you running? Are you running GS/OS? I
suspect you may be booting an older version of the operating system, or perhaps you
have a damaged file. System Error $1102 is for Incompatible OMF version: The object
module format version of a load segment (as specified in its header) is incompatible
with the current version of the System Loader. The loader will not load such a
segment.
You should either try booting with GS/OS (which is the most current version of the
operating system available for the IIGS) or, if you already are using GS/OS, try
re-copying the Appleworks program to your ROM or Hard disk.
As for getting your machine to boot from your hard drive instead of your ROM disk:
Go into the control panel (Ctrl-Apple-ESC) and go to the "Slots" menu option and
change your "Startup Slot" to Slot 6, (or Scan should do the same thing if you don't
have anything in slot 7).
Gary
Subj: error $1102 89-03-24 00:54:30 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Yup, Gary's got that one covered.
Subj: Re: error $1102 89-03-24 21:45:10 EST
From: AFL Oli
Apparently, somewhere in the installation process my AWGS file got corrupted. I
copied onto the disk a fresh copy of AWGS and it worked fine.
Thanks
"Orch Teach" Oli
Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-25 20:01:03 EST
From: HyperRam
If I have ANY NDA's and try to launch Paintworks GOLD it will beep and I can't do
anything. Is that a crash or is it telling me I don't got enough memory? I got
1.25meg.
Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-25 20:34:31 EST
From: GlenBredon
It is probably a crash. When it beeps, try pressing control-reset but hold the reset
key down for a while. If you see some junk from the monitor - thats it.
Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-26 01:54:23 EST
From: AFA Parik
PaintWorks Gold doesn't like GS/OS + NDAs due to the way it gets memory.
You need to be running without any NDAs and CDAs basically, i can squash by with one
or two sometimes. The update to PaintWorks Gold should be shipping soon, go to the
ACTIVISION industry connection forum for more info.
Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-26 01:58:03 EST
From: Matt DTS
Yes, basically PWG made some bad assumptions about memory (such as which banks would
be free) that were bad things for it to do.
Again, I've got to ask why this is in this category - this is a question about an
application problem, not about GS/OS "autocrashing". Am I just overly sensitive this
week?
(probably...)
--Matt
Subj: PaintWorks Gold crashing 89-03-26 11:48:10 EST
From: Dave Lyons
HyperRam, do you have a RAMdisk or anything else set up that is using up memory?
PaintWorks Gold (whatever version is current...don't remember the number) needs
almost all the available RAM on a 1.25M machine.
Subj: Folder Placement..... 89-03-26 18:37:15 EST
From: Coach101
Matt, I know what you mean about folders ending up in strange places. Perhaps a lot
of items end up in this arena (ADV that is) because the people monitoring this baby
do such an outstanding job of getting answers or directing a person to the right
place to be. I an NOT taking a swipe at any other Forums since I basically have no
experience with any of the others; ADV fits me right nice.
Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-26 20:32:46 EST
From: AFL Dyfet
Also, this topic can bring up points on what NOT TO DO when writting application
software, which makes it ADV stuff :)
I will give some further thoughts to your comments in this regard when I officially
take charge, Matt...
Dyfet
Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-28 07:33:08 EST
From: HyperRam
Yes, I have noticed that junk on the screen. But-When I just have cache as an NDA it
MAY luanch but you don't have enought memory for animation. Doesn't GSOS take more
room than Prodos 16? Because some person said it will be hard to launch older
programs. How Appleworks GS which is about 50 time bigger launches then?
Subj: running out of memory 89-03-29 02:19:34 EST
From: Dave Lyons
GS/OS does indeed need more memory than ProDOS 16 did.
AppleWorks GS is a bigger _file_ than PaintWorks Gold, but then PWG tries to allocate
640K of memory aside from the what program itself takes up! _That_ is when it fails.
Subj: AWGS--dynamic segments 89-03-29 02:20:34 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Also, AppleWorks GS has quite a few "dynamic segments" that are loaded only when they
are needed. I don't think PaintWorks Gold has many, if any.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 03:11:49 EST
From: HyperRam
I created another folder for the same thing. GS/OS AutoCrash. Haha. Gs/Os crashes all
the time. I hate this computer!
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 18:36:35 EST
From: AFA Parik
Folder's can't be renamed without recopying each message, and since we don't want Jim
or Gary to go crazy, thats not a good option. :)
Not many new users seem to browse the development forum though, you could make a
folder (sort of like the one that says "USE THE MORE BUTTON") that just screams in
bold letters "GS/OS WORKS PERFECTLY!"...
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 23:13:44 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Matt, you are not imagining things! I am amazed at some of the things I have read
about GS/OS. I found a post the other day in the Apple User's Group Forum (under
Forum Business) that accused GS/OS of causing System Error $0911. Another one spoke
of GS/OS having 26 known bugs.
I'm not exactly sure what to do about the situation either, other than checking
everywhere for GS/OS Bug Propaganda messages and doing my best to make sure the truth
is known :) I kind of like Parik's idea about creating the "GS/OS = PERFECT OS"
folder.
I am, personally, very impressed with GS/OS and its performance. I am looking
forward to future Apple support on this product in the way of additional FST's. I
think the presence of GS/OS helps dispell some of the doom and gloom rumors about the
Apple II line that have been floating around. GS/OS gives the Apple IIGS a bright
future. (I mean really, what other system has an operating system like this?
Certainly NOT the Amiga!)
Gary
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 23:40:18 EST
From: AFA Parik
Heh, the Amiga has the OS of a Nintendo...
Subj: Rename Folders.... Yeah!!!!! 89-03-14 00:38:24 EST
From: Coach101
I agree with you Matt, there are a lot of GS/OS (there, are you
happy now?) _problems_ that get posted that are, when all is
said and done, memory, CDAs, NDAs, sloppy programming, etc. In
my usage of GS/OS I have found it to be very reliable, and from
what I can currently see, EXTREMELY extensible (a vital feature
for the future of the II line).
On the other hand, the number of folders titled "GS/OS stinks.."
is sure not a good advertisement. I really can not blame some
of the <posters> since they do not have the experience, knowledge
and programming bent to distinguish between who is doing what to
whom (not every user of GS/OS has Toolbox I, Toolbox II, GS/OS
reference, etc...).
Though it appears to be a lot of work at the present time, maybe
allowing a Forum Leader to "retitle" a folder would be important
enough to ask for some action from Quantum. Of course there
would always be the disgruntled <poster> who refused to believe
that the "retitling" was accurate, but with the integrety of the
forum leaders, I would not see this a major problem.
Subj: renamable folders, etc 89-03-14 03:13:01 EST
From: Dave Lyons
I agree--FLs should definitely be able to rename folders. (By "should" I mean that
Quantum should provide this ability for them.)
HyperRam, GS/OS does ->NOT<- crash all the time. Your machine crashes all the time
because you try to install six thousand desk accessories all at once and only five
thousand nine hundred and ninety nine of them are written properly. Or whatever.
(Desk Accessories get an opportunity to screw things up during boot; just having a
bad one installed can cause a crash, even if you don't use it!)
Sure, GS/OS is in your machine at the time of the crash, but it wasn't responsible.
You might as well blame the little green light on the monitor--it has as much control
over what buggy DAs and applications do to the system as GS/OS does.
--Dave
Subj: GS/OS IS THE GREATEST!!!! 89-03-14 18:54:37 EST
From: DanielJ7
GS/OS is the best operating system I have ever seen.
I have NEVER had it crash except when $#!^@ ProDOS 16 programs don't behave
themselves. Now if only people would start writing GS/OS specific software...
My only gripe is the lack of control-reset!
Daniel B. Johnson
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-15 01:02:31 EST
From: PaulM83
Matt,
I personally like GS/OS very much, and while it may not be perfect it is the best we
have yet. I was the one who opened the folder GS/OS and Printer PGH. Perhaps you will
be kind enough to answer my question --If something works as advertised under Prodos
8 and Prodos 16 but not under GS/OS and if not one of you experts can give me the
slightest reason why, why shouldn't I suspect that the fault is with GS/OS? BELIEVE
ME, I'm open to about any suggestion to resolve this, and I'm not picking on GS/OS.
So what is your suggestion????
Subj: Pointing at the problem 89-03-15 01:48:06 EST
From: AFL Jim
If the AppleLink software doesn't print under GS/OS, then it is most likely a problem
with the AppleLink software. I too have had trouble printing from AppleLink (I use
AppleWriter or AppleWorks to print) and I hope AppleLink's printer routines will be
corrected in the future to handle all printer interfaces.
Subj: GS/OS and RESET 89-03-15 04:37:28 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Daniel, the RESET issue has been beaten to death elsewhere, already. There is no way
to guarantee that the system is in an okay state after a RESET. Overall, it's good
that it's gone.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-15 08:32:32 EST
From: ShrinkIt
Matt, you're going to be on comp.sys.apple? Hooooo boy are we going to have fun! :-)
andy
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-16 22:29:42 EST
From: Matt DTS
Just posted my first comp.sys.apple message a few minutes ago. We'll see what
happens next...
Paul, I meant to say (can't recall if I *did* or not) that of all the folders posted
seemingly blaming GS/OS for something, yours is the only one that has a shot at being
right. You may have a genuine case of something that does not work under GS/OS for
compatibility reasons.
The point was that such resolutions are the exception and not the rule.
--Matt
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability & RESET! 89-03-20 00:55:06 EST
From: PElseth
Chalk up another vote of confidence for GS/OS. Along with the seemingly vast
majority of others, I _really_ like GS/OS. AND, I have found it to be very stable.
However, since Dave says the Reset issue has been beaten to death, I guess it won't
feel anything if I toss my club away - and happen to hit it again in the process :).
It is a fact that allowing a RESET under GS/OS can be a _very_ bad thing. HOWEVER,
there are (few and far between) times at which I _really_ want to be allowed to
RESET. My only argument is that someone else has Decided that I am not capable of
handling myself around the RESET key. Now while this may very well be true, being
the ornery sort, I kind of resent having this decided for me.
In case anyone was wondering, I develope software for a living, and the only times I
have wanted to hit RESET was under APW with a program in a little loop (nowhere near
any disk devices). It's real annoying to have to reboot - loosing any post-mortem
information that happened to be hanging around. Oh yeah - and I never tried to
continue working w/o rebooting unless I was reasonably sure of what I was doing.
My point is that while preventing RESET increases the reliability of the system as a
whole, it would sure be nice if developers could work around it.
Thanks for letting me voice my opinion a little bit late - and I hope I didn't
offend.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-20 01:15:24 EST
From: GlenBredon
Merlin-16+ does allow reset trapping if you want (it is an option). I have never
seen a problem with it, but I would agree that rebooting as soon as possible is
recommended.
As for reliability of GS/OS, I have seen some bugs with it, mostly minor, but it is a
remarkably solid product - not at all what I expected from the beta versions that I
saw and which would not run at all acceptably. Actually, I had more problems with
P16 than with GS/OS, and I've been running GS/OS exclusively since Sept.
Subj: GS/OS is GREAT!! 89-04-14 22:51:35 EST
From: BurgerBill
I write software for a living and at first I was scared about using ProDOS 16 for my
games (Bard's Tale I and II) but now I have written my first game in GS/OS (Crystal
Quest) and now I am believer!! Using Merlin 16+ and GS/OS with an Innerdrive 16 bit
is the best thing I have ever used. I only hope that I can get more info on writing
FSTS for GS/OS.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-04-14 23:12:36 EST
From: GlenBredon
In the last week I have had to revise my opinion of the reliability of GS/OS. There
are some really potentially disastrous problems with it which can, and have, utturly
destroyed hard disk volumes. (Repeatable.) I've been beating my head trying to find
a run-around for such problems, but the only solution I have found is to force a
system shutdown after doing certain things. I still like GS/OS generally, but I sure
hope the next release will solve some of the present defects.
Subj: Re: FST.. 89-04-15 11:53:47 EST
From: DougMac
Yes GS/OS is great, but don't expect too much documentation on FST. I don't
understand why not, as the device driver manual is detailed enough, why can't we make
our own FST, if we can make our own drivers??
Yes GS/OS crashing on a hard drive is very much a pain. I think right now about 5% of
my hard drive is junk, that I have to keep around until I do a file back up of my
hard drive and re-initialize the directory structure.. When a simple crash trashes
the directry structure and sets up links between data files and system files, that
general gets to be a pain.. The drive isn't necessarily going when the crash comes,
the only requirement is an open file..
Subj: Is There No Reconstruct Utility? 89-04-16 11:49:54 EST
From: Coach101
Lost disk space is classic operating system behaviour in the face of an unexpected
termination (known, in vulgar circles as a CRASH). I do not know how GS/OS does it,
but in a lot of systems I have worked with, the system will allocate some amount of
space on the volume and record the fact that the space is in use on the volume. Then
as it needs the space it will use the space that it has pre-allocated. Doing it this
way, will cut down on the writes to the volume's bit map. Of course if the system
crashes before all of the units in the pre-allocated list are used then you end up
with "dead" space on the disk.
In any event, isnt there a utility some place that will run through a volume and
reconstruct the volumes bit map to reflect what is actually found in the volumes
directory and file structures? There must be one someplace.
With respect to FSTs, in one of the Tuesday night sessions there was a comment that
Apple positions with respect to FSTs was that in order to write an FST you need to
know more about the internal structure of GS/OS than Apple is willing to
release/document (or maybe freeze?). So, FSTs are the province of Apple.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-04-16 12:19:23 EST
From: AFL Dyfet
In regards to reconstructing GS/OS volumes, one in theory would have to consider the
FST in use for the given volume. There are a number of good utilities around for
reconstructing ProDOS 8 volumes (including especially some of Glen Bredon's stuff),
and I wish some of these utilities would be adapted to work with extended (resource
fork) ProDOS files, but what do you do if/when the day comes that you have a HFS FST
and a volume crash occurs on an HFS volume? Or what if Apple changes the ProDOS file
system again?
In regards to reliability, I must say I have not found any problem in this respect.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I have not had a problem occur that would
cause loss of a volume, and I have had GS/OS on my harddisk since mid/late-beta.
Glen, if you could elaborate on situation(s) that you have found to be a problem, I
think it would be much appreciated.
Subj: Re: Lost files.. 89-04-16 17:05:26 EST
From: DougMac
Well for my drive, most of the problems come with the some files in the same
directory getting linked to other files.. (ie. they contain a block or two of another
file. So if I want to keep that file. I have to save the other bad file, and remember
not to delete it. Also most of the time what happens is that the files I just
created will end up not allocated on the disk. But that isn't as much a problem as I
can fix them easily.
Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-04-16 22:18:04 EST
From: GlenBredon
ProSel, of course, has facilities for regaining lost blocks on the disk etc. It has
already been revised to deal with forked files.
Subj: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-13 06:37:40 EST
From: HyperRam Msgs: 7 (89-03-25)
I have had some problems with the GS/OS Basic.System. First when I thought my
System.Disk was virused I packed it up and sent it to a Cust Rep. He couldn't unpack
it-It stopped at Basic.System. He thought it was a bad pack. Now when I was coping
the System Disk is said bad blocks. I deleted Basic System and it copied fine.
HyperRam
Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-13 18:35:50 EST
From: AFA Parik
Where did you get your system disk HyperRam?
Subj: bad blocks 89-03-14 03:08:40 EST
From: Dave Lyons
HyperRam, if you have bad blocks on the disk, that's a problem with the disk itself,
the physical thing, not a problem with the file. On a good copy of System Disk 4.0
(or any other system disk, for that matter), BASIC.SYSTEM works fine.
Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-14 16:01:04 EST
From: HyperRam
I deleted the BS and there were no more bad blocks. I bought the package.
Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-14 21:02:07 EST
From: AFA Parik
The easiest thing to do is to just go in and get a new copy from your dealer (I
assume thats where you bought it); there could be other things wrong with the system
disk also. You could also transfer all files except basic.system to a new disk, and
then get basic.system from AppleLink (Its in the APPLE II SYSTEM UTILITIES v3.1
file), but again, your best bet is to get a new copy from your dealer and check it
while you're there!
Subj: bad blocks 89-03-15 04:34:28 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Deleting a file will not repair bad blocks on the surface of your disk. But if you
are using a program that checks for bad blocks by reading through the contents of all
the _files_ on the volume, then you will no longer find out about the bad blocks,
since they aren't being used at the moment.
Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-25 20:04:16 EST
From: HyperRam
Yeah but now I KNOW it is bad. The guys told me so. I deleted it and it was fixed.
And thats that.
Ram
Subj: GS/OS AND PRINTER - PGH! 89-03-14 00:30:10 EST
From: PaulM83 Msgs: 4 (89-03-14)
Finally got smart enough to realize that this is a software and not a hardware
problem. The 'work off line' utility of Alink will print text files nicely on my
Imagewriter I when I boot Prodos 16 and launch Alink. When I boot GS/OS and launch
Alink and go to the 'work off line' utility and try to print text files the dern
thing doesn't eveh hiccough. All that happens is that the text scroals slowly up the
monitor. I have the imagewriter driver in GS/OS. Am I missing something basic??? The
frustrating thing is that this still is true with the brand new Alink disk which came
today and which was supposed to solve the various little problems some of us had been
having with Alink. I bought the Imagewriter I just to work with Alink but now do I
have to bite the bullet and go to a II to suceed??? (Im almost unhappy enough to go
two-ate-six instead!!) Help please!
Subj: printer drivers 89-03-14 03:06:17 EST
From: Dave Lyons
The IMAGEWRITER driver in your SYSTEM/DRIVERS is not used by AppleLink--PE; that
driver is only used by the Print Manager, for software that has Macintosh style
Choose Printer, Page Setup, Print features.
(I don't know what the problem is; I just know what it's not. :)
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND PRINTER - PGH! 89-03-14 19:31:37 EST
From: MacNasty
Dave, I have the same problem. Are you saying that there isn't a driver for the
Imagewriter I? Wouldn't the I and II use same driver? Why will things work under
Prodos16 and not GS/OS?
Subj: Re: GS/OS AND PRINTER - PGH! 89-03-14 19:35:14 EST
From: MacNasty
P.S. I've also found that Alink.Easyprint and Dogpaw won't work either, yet
Appleworks and Screan.Print, and everything else will --very curious!
Subj: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-03-25 20:07:58 EST
From: HyperRam Msgs: 12 (89-05-08)
How come sometime when I delete files the trash can dissapears? The name is still
there and I can still delete file. Sometimes it will come back when I eject disks.
But when its gone- I can't open it.
Subj: Because... 89-03-26 18:30:02 EST
From: Coach101
Why is this folder in the O/S area?
Well, if you are not a programmer (whether you think you are or not), then Finder
looks like the "command" level of an operating system to you; i.e., boot Unix and end
up in 'sh', boot MsDOS and end up in 'command.com', boot GS/OS and end up in Finder.
So, like it or not, to the vast majority of the world, Finder (including all its good
points and whatever bad points there may be) is perceived as part of the operating
system.
Did I spell Finder acceptably Matt?
Subj: sh, csh 89-03-26 19:16:08 EST
From: Dave Lyons
...boot Unix and end up in csh... :-)
^
Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-03-28 03:42:16 EST
From: A2Pro Tim
Are you sure you don't have mutliple copies of the Finder icons in your icon folder
(obviously, one of the copies would have had it's name changed....). This became a
common problem when files of custom icons first started appearing on BBS's - folks
would download replacement icon sets and simply rename their old ones, then copy in
the new set. The Finder's never liked having multiple icons around for special
things like the trashcan...
Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-03-28 07:30:55 EST
From: HyperRam
Sorry about the wrong place-I noticed that after I put it in.
Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-04-26 06:35:34 EST
From: HyperRam
God! It keeps on dissapearing!
Subj: Re: Disappearing Trashcan???? 89-05-01 20:27:22 EST
From: CAPelton
Well, I'm having the same problem. And if this isn't a good place for asking this
question (with all due respect) just where is? I've looed around for someplace to
put this message and couldn't find anyplace that "looked right."
Just WHAT is it that causes this problem?
Chris.
Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-02 00:34:45 EST
From: Dave Lyons
(This *is* a good place to ask this question--much better than Across The Boards, in
fact.)
I suspect that you have TWO trashcan icons, one of which is NOT in a file called
FINDER.ICONS.
Is this true? Try getting rid of the extra one, if so.
Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-02 22:36:37 EST
From: HyperRam
Nope, I don't got 2.
Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-04 05:41:18 EST
From: Dave Lyons
HyperRam, how do you know you don't have two icons with the filetype reserved for the
trashcan? They don't have to *look* like trashcans--they just have to have that
filetype.
How many icon files do you have in the ICONS folders of the disks you have online
while the thing disappears?
Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-08 17:25:13 EST
From: Shoggoth2
I've had this happen to me, too. I don't have multiple trashcans, and I've checked
the filetypes, Dave. Matt said it was the Finder's problem in the second message.
We'll just have to wait for the next revision of the Finder to solve it.
Subj: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-02 13:39:22 EST
From: AFL Scott Msgs: 5 (89-04-03)
A number of people have been removing the Disk Cache NDA from GS/OS in order to
"free" some memory for AppleWorks GS to use. My question is simple, is this alright
to do? Does it open the door for additional problems?
Thanks in advance,
Scott <--still has his Disk Cache NDA intact.
Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-02 14:46:21 EST
From: AFL Dyfet
I believe the only thing this NDA does for you is to give you a way to set or change
the size of the cache. You should be able to use the machine fine without it.
Incidently, setting the cache to 0, from what I understand, doesn't really do this,
as there is still a minimum amount of memory used by the ProDOS FST for directory
caching and such.
Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-02 16:02:37 EST
From: GlenBredon
The cache always uses at least 16K even if set to 0. As stated, removing the NDA
does not affect this - it is just for resizing the cache.
Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-03 06:54:30 EST
From: Matt DTS
What they said. It's just a size changer; the cache operates fine without it
present.
--Matt
Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-03 18:15:45 EST
From: AFL Scott
Thanks, I just wanted to be sure before I said anything.
Scott
Subj: copying DOS 3.3 disks 89-04-12 02:38:42 EST
From: Dave Lyons
You can use the System Utilities to copy DOS 3.3 disks.
DOS 3.3 programs will not run under GS/OS, but you can set your Startup Slot to your
6 in the control panel and reboot directly from the DOS 3.3 disk.
In the future, GS/OS File System Translators may allow you to copy DOS 3.3 files and
disks, but right now you can't do it in the Finder. (You'll still have to reboot to
RUN DOS 3.3-specific programs, though.)
--Dave
Subj: gsos novice 89-04-13 23:49:38 EST
From: TPhoenix Msgs: 7 (89-04-26)
Hope this doesn't seem too silly a question from a novice. Just finished downloading
gsossystem.disk and gsos system.tools. Thought I'd be able to copy them both on to
the same disk, but not enough room. How do I access the system tools from the system
disk (won't boot by itself).
Many thanks,
Todd Phoenix
Subj: Single drive system 89-04-14 00:20:03 EST
From: Jump Long
You boot the /System.Disk, eject it, then insert the /System.Tools disk.
With a single drive system, you may have to swap disks a few times now and then but
the system software automatically asked you to swap disks when it needs one that
isn't in a drive.
JML
Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-14 20:26:25 EST
From: AFA Parik
TPhoenix,
Another thing you may want to do is make a booting disk of GS/OS tailored for your
system. The first thing to do is bootup the SYSTEM.DISK you've downloaded, and
insert SYSTEM.TOOLS. Launch the file INSTALL on the SYSTEM.TOOLS disk. Insert a
blank, formatted 3.5" disk and select the VOLUME box until the name of your formatted
disk comes in. Then select "INSTALL ALL SYSTEM FILES". Let it copy around, you'll
have to swap disks a couple of times. Then, you can install any "specials"; such as
5.25 drivers, or SCSI hard disk, etc, etc.
Now tuck your SYSTEM.DISK and SYSTEM.TOOLS disk away, and boot this newly made GS/OS
disk! You can set options in the finder, change the starting screen, add startbeeps,
and god knows what.
Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-14 21:59:03 EST
From: TPhoenix
Thanks for the help, folks!
Todd
Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-22 12:54:06 EST
From: Matt DTS
When Parik says "Install All System Files", he means "Install System Files", not
"Install Everything Possible". The latter script installs so much stuff that it all
won't fit on a 5.25" disk. (The help button for the script says so, incidentally.)
--Matt
Subj: Let me try that again 89-04-22 12:55:12 EST
From: Matt DTS
I meant it won't all fit on a 3.5" disk. It installs more than 800K worth of files,
so it won't fit on a 5.25" disk either.
--Matt
Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-26 20:41:01 EST
From: THE GIBBER
Well Matt
If we had 1.2 meg floppies we would be able to do that...... Wouldn't we ;)
Gibber
Subj: GS/OS install problem 89-04-16 19:20:36 EST
From: AFL Dyfet Msgs: 5 (89-04-22)
Subj: Drivers ignored- GS/OS 89-04-16 19:02:32EDT
From: CompuWhiz3 Msgs: 1 (89-04-16)
GS/OS is ignoring my 5.25 disk driver, modem driver, AppleMIDI driver, and Printer
driver. HELP!!!!!
Subj: ignored driver files? 89-04-16 23:01:26 EST
From: Dave Lyons
CompuWhiz3, check the following:
--Your driver files are in the DRIVERS folder inside the SYSTEM folder of the disk
you are booting from.
--Your drivers are "active." Select the icons and choose Get Info. If any Inactive
check boxes are checked, uncheck them and reboot.
If this doesn't help, yell again.
--Dave
Subj: Re: GS/OS install problem 89-04-17 19:50:34 EST
From: CompuWhiz3
I tryed that. The finder still ignores them. In fact, they were marked active.
Subj: drivers ignored? 89-04-20 23:55:46 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Are there any drivers GS/OS is NOT ignoring?
If not, is your DRIVERS folder really called "DRIVERS", and is it in the SYSTEM
folder of your boot disk?
Do your 5.25 drives work okay from ProDOS 8 programs?
Subj: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-19 01:18:38 EST
From: TMH2 Msgs: 17 (89-06-04)
Reference has been made (on GEnie, I think) of some bugs in the GS/OS SCSI driver,
and a program is provided to fix them. 1) Are there any known bugs in the driver 2)
if so, what are they 3) What are the fixes. (I'm not about to take someone's word
for it, and disassembly of the driver w/o interface docs would be pointless)
Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_
Z R
Z T. Mike Howeth II N
Z Dallas, Texas N
Z (TMH2) V
Z B Q
ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_
Subj: SCSI bugs... 89-05-19 02:44:28 EST
From: A2Pro Tim
TMike,
Glen Bredon (the guy who writes Merlin, ProSel, etc) is the person who found the
bugs and he's released a patch on GEnie. Search the A2 library for a recent upload
by "bredon" and you'll no doubt find it...
Tim S.
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-19 21:55:17 EST
From: Montagne
Hey guy's, how bout some more information. If you find a bug, we are definitely
interested. Please give us information on the os version, driver version (yes GS/OS
has driver versions) and the offending driver call. A third party patch may satisfy
you in the short term but let's ask the source to fix it the right way! Please send
Apple DTS the details!!!
Thanks, Ray
Subj: Bredon's SCSI patch 89-05-20 03:19:08 EST
From: Dave Lyons
In this case, we already know about it (Matt and I were following the GEnie
discussion several weeks ago, just before Glen released his patch).
Here's the problem, to the best of my understanding: when a block is written through
the SCSI.DRIVER on System Disk 4.0, the first two bytes of the buffer being written
- from* are changed after the block is written. So the block on disk is okay, but if
the program that wrote the block still needs the info in memory, it has a problem.
We forwarded the description from Glen to the appropriate people, & they verified
that the problem does not exist in the 5.0 SCSI stuff (which was completely replacing
System Disk 4.0's interim SCSI driver anyway).
--Dave (DTS)
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-21 19:27:20 EST
From: HyperRam
How did you do that dialog box?
Subj: What? 89-05-22 21:08:47 EST
From: Dave Lyons
HyperRam, your last message said "How did you do that dialog box?"
What are you talking about? (If it doesn't belong in this folder, just reply in the
correct folder.)
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-23 19:02:39 EST
From: GlenBredon
The patch was uploaded here also, I think. I sent in a bug report but that was not
good enough since people were having problems NOW, and it had to be fixed now instead
of waiting for the 5.0 disk to fix it. (I knew that 5.0 did fix it, but could not
talk about 5.0 at that time - I'm not sure I can now.)
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-27 09:59:19 EST
From: LVirden
Dave, Hyper was talking about the window dialog box that Tim put in his first message
- that IS Neat and I was going to ask the same thing!
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-27 19:50:44 EST
From: AFA Parik
Its easy 'nuff, you can figure it out by "SAVE AS..." his message, but the secret is
putting a ^Tchar^T for mousetext in messages ONLY. You need to keep the
control-chars/message in a file, and then just "OPEN..." it and it'll place it where
the cursor is. Don't bother junking up message base with gobs of garbage, message
would just be deleted. So if you wanna put a box of apple's, it'd look like...
^T@A@A@A^T
^TA^T ^T@^T
^T@^T ^T@^T
^TA@A@A@^T
and output would be
@A@A@A@A@A@A@A@A@
A A
@ @
A@A@A@A@A@A@A@A@A
voila!
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-29 12:59:42 EST
From: A GibberFC
An Easy one for youz guys out there...
What does GS/OS look for in the Rev C Scsi card that is or isn't there in the REV B
card??? is it a series of bytes in the Rom or what???
Gibber
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-29 21:01:12 EST
From: Montagne
It's not that we are looking for anything special other than the revision number
obtained through SmartPort Status Call 3. SCSI revisions prior to rev C had some
problems that made earlier revisions of the rom incompatable with GS/OS. This was
corrected in Rev C which Apple provides as a free upgrade. In system 4.0, the SCSI
driver relied rather heavily on the firmware residing on the SCSI card. In system
5.0, the firmware is only used during the boot process but the revision is just as
important as it was for system 4.0.
Subj: "Dialog" box control characters 89-05-31 23:48:12 EST
From: AFA Gary J
Hyper (and others):
Before you go and put a bunch of control characters in your messages, keep in mind
that there will be Macintosh users on this system as well. The mouse text characters
don't translate to the Mac. It just looks like a bunch of garbage.
Gary
Subj: Interesting Choice.... 89-06-01 00:19:05 EST
From: Coach101
No control characters --> Plain text for everyone
Control characters -----> Nice things for Apple II users
-----> Garbage for Mac users
Subj: Re: "Trash for Mac users" 89-06-01 19:57:39 EST
From: TMH2
Nice turning of the tables for a change, don't you think!?!?
(TAKE THIS, MAC USERS!) :
Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_
Z R
Z T. Mike Howeth II N
Z Dallas, Texas N
Z (TMH2) V
Z B Q
ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-06-03 19:56:43 EST
From: Scapino
LOL:)))
WAY TO GO MIKE.....
KURT
Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-06-04 08:41:32 EST
From: Larry A24
I agree, if the MAC users are in this area, they have to live with any junk they get
on their screens. I wonder what mousetext looks like on a MAC screen? This could
get interesting!
Larry