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NUMBER OF LINES: 629 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ********************* REMOVED: 11 JUN 83 *************************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 25 In any race that upward strives in thought 26 But few there are who lead the way 27 All wxo view them know they ought 28 The same life's role to play. 29 30 He rose sublime in ways of mind, 31 He shows the way for us behind. 32 His light shines out for any race, 33 He did what few of us could face. 34 35 Not by deeds but bravely done 36 He saves our spirit, struggle won. 37 What means freedom? How to brave it? 38 He risked his only death to save it. 39 40 In silvery flash of his swift passage, 41 The fear he brought, the hope that came. 42 He swiftly sows his truth of message, 43 To scorn the paths of meaning tame. 44 45 ################################################################# 46 DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO REACH BILL MARKS? IF SO -HAVE HIM CALL 47 RANDY KULBE CONCERNING BOB KULBE AND SOFTWARE. 48 THANK YOU::::::::::::::::::6-3-83:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 49 ################################################################### 50 51 A LETTER IS 52 A SHIP OF WORDS 53 THAT LETS THE NEWS 54 OF FRIENDS BE HEARD 55 SO MAY THIS MESSAGE 56 HAVE A PLESANT TRIP 57 AND REACH YOU AS 58 A TRUE FRIENDS SHIP. 59 *********************************************************************.OFF 60 OFF 61 =========================================================== 62 I do not choose to be a common man; it is my right to be uncommon... 63 if I can. 64 I seek opportunity...not security. 65 I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the 66 state look after me. 67 I want to take the calculated risk, to dream and to build, to fail and 68 to succeed. 69 I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. 70 I prefer the challenges to the guaranteed existence, the thrill of 71 fulfillment to the false calm of Utopia. 72 I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. 73 I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat. 74 It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act 75 for myself; to enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world 76 boldly. 77 I will protect these beliefs from incursions, on any front, with the full 78 substance of my being...every time, without whimper or waiver. 79 ========================== Think on this, folks ========================= 80 ######################################################################### 81 82 83 HI THERE ALL YOU PEROPLE OUT IN CRT LAND. WHAT ARE YOU ALL DOING TONIGHT? 84 85 IF YOU CANT FLY DONT. 86 87 88 89 KEV 90 91 ################################################################################ 92 93 ------------------------ 94 95 TRON: 96 97 I WOULD BE VERY INTERESED IN PERSUING THE IDEA OF FORMING A LARGE COMPANY... 98 AS OF NOW, I ONLY HAVE ONE OTHER PERSON WORKING WITH ME. 99 102 AND PASSwORDS WAS DESTROYED BY A MALFUNCTIONING COMPUTER (TRS-80). 103 THE PASSwORD USE TO BE MADE UP OF CONTROL CHARACTERS AND REQUIRED A PROGRAM 104 TO LOG ON... 105 THE PROGRAM REQUIRED YOU TO TYPE IN THE FOLLOWING: 106 107 SYSTEM MANAGER 3.1415926535 108 109 AND WHEN YOU WERE LOGGED ON TO THE CORVUS STORAGE SySTEM YOU HAD TO TYPE: 110 111 DG1029 112 113 AS THE SECOND PASSWORD. 114 115 BUT, AS OF TODAY, THIS IS ALL DIFFERENT... 116 117 ONE LAST WORD, I WAS ALSO CONSIDERING A TRS-80 MODEL 16. I wAS BOND BY THE 118 SAME RESTRICTION...PRICE; UNTIL... 119 120 LAST MONTH I ATTENDED NORTHCON/83 AT THE COLISIUM. THE GUY AT THE MOTOROLA 121 EXIBIT GAVE ME A 68000 AND TWO 68008` MICROPROCESSORS-I MAY MAKE MY OWN 122 COMPUTER... 123 124 ALSO: A WORD TO THOSE DISCUSSING LIGHT AND SOUND: 125 126 IT IS ALL RELATIVE... 127 128 THE SySM. 129 130 ======================================== 131 To: Sysm and Einstien enthusiasts From: Tron Re: E=MC2 132 133 All true! I had a friend that told me that you couldn't 134 go past or ever get to the speed of light. It went something 135 like this: 136 You travel faster and faster. The atoms that are being used 137 up as exhaust is being spitted out the back and makes your ship 138 more massive. Massive in mass pack not massive big. So, it takes 139 more and more fuel to get you faster and faster until finally 140 you get infinitely small. Is this true? It sounds kinda true but 141 there are a few things that don't really make sense. 142 I don't see how time could go faster for someone else while 143 on you, time goes real slow. 144 145 Tron 146 ---------- 147 To: SYSM From: Tron Re: All sorts of things 148 149 David, 150 Well, TRS-80 computers aren't the best computers in the world. 151 All computers have their faults. 152 I really haven't opened up a store or even tried to. I have 153 another friend that is going to help me make a mainframe machine. 154 He is also trying to start his own software company. My dad 155 is a real-estate agent. He could track down and locate a good 156 place to start one. The computer I wish to make consists of a 157 8085A Microprocessor with 512 onboard memory. Then there will 158 be 10 hard disks that store about 500 megabytes each; making a 159 total of 5 billion bytes. Think that's enough? Also, lets talk 160 on the PMS or something. This is not a real private place. 161 162 Tron 163 ---------- 164 ----- 165 Tron, I didn't QUITE explain it like that... 166 ----- 167 **==**==**== 168 169 I THINK EVERONE SHOULD ALL GET TOGETHER AND TRY 170 TO DEVELOP A GENERAL LAW SO WE CAN GET ALL THIS 171 SOUND AND SPEED STUFF OUT OF THE WAY.!.! 172 I HEAR ALOT OF TALK, AND SOME FACTS(FINALLY), 173 BUT STILL--I THINK ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE TALKING 174 OF THE TOP OF THEIR HEADS! I NEVER KNEW 175 THEIR WERE SO MANY EINSTEINS OUT THERE. 176 I THOUGHT THIS WORLD WAS LACKING IN 177 SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE, BUT WE HAVE MORE 178 THEN ONE MILLION PROFESSIONAL 179 SCIENTISTS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW!! 180 ASIMOV BETTER WATCH HIS TAIL!! WE 181 GONE. 182 183 ZEUS-WATCHING THE HEAVENS... 184 AND WOMEN TOO. 185 **==**==**== 186 187 ---------- 188 Pion, enter the correct one. I didn't mean to make a fool of 189 yourself. Even the above looks right. I have miss-printed it. 190 Sorry about that. Hey, if you would, will you print the correct 191 junk on here? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks..... 192 193 194 Tron 195 ---------- 196 TRON: 197 BASICLY THATS THE WAY IT GOES. BY THE TIME YOU GET UP NEXT TO LIGHTSPEED 198 YOU HAVE TO CONVERT ALL OF YOUR MASS TO ENERGY TO GO ANY FASTER.. WHICH OF 199 COURSE MEANS THERE'S NOTHING LEFT OF YOU TO GO FASTER.... 200 NOW LETS CONSIDER SOME IMPLICATIONS HERE .. FIRST WHAT IF YOU UNBALANCE 201 THE EQUATION. THAT IS WHAT IF YOU COULD 'BORROW' ENERGY FROM SOMEPLACE 202 ELSE? (I DON'T KNOW WHERE, I AM JUST POSING THE QUESTION) THE USUALL 203 RESPONSE I GET IS THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE, BUT THEY GENERALLY FALL INTO 204 A FIT OF DON'T ASK THAT QUESTION IT'S NOT PROPER WHEN I PUSH IT. 205 (I TEND TO LIKE TO PUSH PEOPLE LIKE THAT WHEN THEY SAY SOMETHING IS 206 NOT POSSIBLE, FIND A POSSIBLE WAY AROUND THE PROBLEM AND SEE HOW THEY 207 REACT WHETHER THE MEANS AROUND THE PROBLEM IS DOABLE OR NOT. AT LEAST 208 IT GETS THEM THINKING.) ANOUTHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION YOU CAN FOOL 209 WITH IS THE MASS. THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT IT CONTINUES TO INCREASE 210 AS YOU INCREASE YOUR SPEED. SO WHAT IF YOU WERE TO PREVENT THE MASS 211 FROM INCREASING? HUH? AGAIN THE RESPONSE IS THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE DON'T 212 ASK SUCH STUPID QUESTIONS. BUT IT DOES REMAIN AN OUT IF YOU COULD 213 FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT. NOW I'M NOT ADVOCATING THAT ALL THIS IS 214 POSSIBLE WITH TODAYS UNDERSTANDING OF PHYSICS, I'M JUST POINTING 215 OUT AREAS WHERE IT IS WEAK AND SOME HOLES MIGHT BE FOUND. 216 IF YOU CAN'T PROPERLY EXPLAIN IN LAYMANS TERMS WHY SOMETHING IS NOT 217 SO, THEN YOU PROBABLY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. 218 ONE ASPECT THAT I DIDN'T COVER IS THE TIME CHANGE FACTOR. THIS ALSO 219 IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. BASICLY IT SAYS THAT AS YOUR 220 SPEED INCREASES TIME SLOWS DOWN. THIS MEANS THAT BY THE TIME WE 221 GET NEAR TO THE SPEED OF LIGHT AN INFINATE AMOUNT OF TIME WILL 222 HAVE PASSED MEANING THAT OUR TIME IS UP AND WE CAN'T GET THERE IN 223 TIME ANYWAY SO WHAT'S THE POINT? I TEND TO HAVE OTHER FEELINGS 224 IN REGARD TO THIS WHOLE MESS, IT IS BASED ON RELATIVITY AND THE 225 HIESENBURG PRINCIPLE, BUT I GENERALLY DON'T DICUSS IT BECAUSE 226 IF YOU THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF ARGUING GENERATED ABOUT SPEED 227 YOU SHOULD SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN TIME COMES INTO THE PICTURE. 228 ANOTHER QUOTE, THE GREATER THE ARGUMENT THE GREATER THE CHANCE 229 THAT NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. 230 REMEBER WHAT I TOLD YOU ABOUT PAINTING DOORS ON BRICK WALLS. 231 SINCE ALL MOTIVE FORCE EQUATIONS INCLUDING THOSE RELATING TO 232 THE RELATIVITY QUESTION INVOLVES RELEASING SOME OF YOUR MASS 233 AS ENERGY TO INCREASE YOUR SPEED. CONSIDER THAT THIS ALL 234 REACTIVE FORCE YOU CAN NEVER GET THERE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO 235 USE UP EVERYTHING TRYING. SO WHAT IF YOU WERE TO USE A CREATIVE 236 FORCE? THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO USE UP YOUR MASS GETTING THERE 237 OF COURSE ALL THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE BY TODAYS PHYSICS, BUT IF 238 SOMEONE DOES COME UP WITH A CREATIVE FORCE INSTEAD OF THE REACTIVE 239 ONE. THEN AT LEAST ONE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED. 240 (WE STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE INCREASING MASS AND TIME PROBLEMS.) 241 WITH REACTIVE FORCE YOU CAN ONLY GO AS FAST AS THE REACTION CAN TAKE 242 PLACE. SINCE THE MAXIMUM SPEED OF A REACTION IS THE SPEED OF LIGHT WE 243 CAN ONLY GO THIS FAST. WITH CREATIVE FORCE THERE IS NO MAXIMUM SPEED 244 BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT DEALING WITH A PAST REACTION, BUT RATHER A FUTURE ONE. 245 OH YES, I SHOULD SAY HERE THAT CREATIVE FORCE BY TODAYS PHYSICS IS 246 IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE IT GOES COUNTER TO THE ENTROPHY THEORY. 247 WELL, ENOUGH OF THIS JUNK. I SAID TOO MUCH ALREADY...... 248 ***** CISTOP MIKEY BABELING ON AGAIN *** 3 JUN 83 *** 10:00PM ******* 249 Who cares if we can't travel at nearly the speed of light? We really 250 don't want to anyhow. The equations (if they work at all, which obviously 251 hasn't been tested) only say the mass becomes something times the 252 square root of -1 when you go faster than light. The only trouble 253 exists at C, or near it. This is a problem only if to get to faster 254 we have to through C, and who says speed needs to be continous? 255 Every thing else isn't: they are quantized. 256 That square root of -1 isn't really that scary either, all electronics 257 people use it every day, or at least any time they deal with AC. 258 Edison beleived that AC was useless because the average current was 0. 259 Which is correct, but POWER is the product of the instantaneous current 260 times the voltage at the same time; since they each go negative at the 261 same time, it is always positive. (Unless there is phase shift, and then 262 that square root of minus 1 comes in) In any case Tesla was right, and 263 Edison wrong, so we use AC every day. 264 265 More exotic physics: I read that a particle said to be the link that 266 carries the combination electromagnetic-weak nuclear force has been separated 267 out and detected. This required tremendous energy, and the particle 268 is very heavy. Would someone please explain how a very heavy particle 269 is the glue that hold together much lighter particles? 270 271 Next question: once all of reality is described by one simple equation, 272 does this make reality any simpler? 273 >>> Don't be ridiculous, the equations for electromagnetic waves have 274 been around for some time, and there is still good money being made 275 designing radio antennas, because even if the equation applies, it 276 isn't obvious, or even visible how to apply it in other than the 277 simplest geometries. 278 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++B.A.D.++++++++++++++++ 279 Maybe I shouldn't have read disc B. 280 The common belief that "I don't understand it, therefore it is not true." 281 is very wrong. The fact that many people believe something doesn't make 282 it true (or false either). Relativity is only a way to describe the world 283 we live in, more accurrately than say, Newtonian physics; but even these 284 are to complex for many people. The only way to find out if something is 285 true is to try it. For a description of a black hole, it may be hard to 286 do, because we haven't found one yet, at least not for sure & so we aren't 287 really sure what they look like, but unless our understanding of reality 288 is wrong they do exist, and we can make some pretty good guesses what 289 they are like. We really do know a lot about reality. Although is can 290 be argued that all is illusion, this is a self defeating arguement, and 291 we all act as if we understand our environment enough to keep our fingers 292 out of the fire, or out of in front of a moving car. 293 294 In a Newtonian frame, the energy of a moving object is 295 E=1/2*M*V^2 296 If you move fast enough, the mass changes with the speed. 297 E=M*C^2 gives the energy in the rest mass of an object, or in fact, the 298 total energy o a moving one. 299 The possibility of travel near the speed of light is pretty small, even 300 if relativity is ignored (it can be until you get very close to c) simply 301 because of the energy involved. 302 You don't believe me? figure out the cost of electricity to accelerate 303 yourself (without any extra weight for space ship, food, air, etc) to 304 3/4 c. The add in the fact that it takes a car about 10 time your weight 305 to get you to only 55 mph, and extrapolate that weight to a spaceship 306 . ......................................................... 307 Unless I made some simple error, it would cost only about $30 billion 308 for enough electricity to get me to 3/4 c. Using Newtonian rather than 309 the full Lorentz equation for energy gives about 2% error. Oh, by 310 the way, Eienstein isn't the only person who studied the effects of 311 traveling near the speed of light, he only tried to put together what 312 a lot of others already knew. 313 .......................: 314 B.A.D. asked how massive particles can be the 'glue' that holds together 315 smaller particles. Well, in layman's terms, here goes. Actually, the 316 Z-Zero particle discovered (at least announced) a few days ago carries 317 the weak force between particles. This force is much less powerful 318 than the Strong Force, which is carried by (I believe) the Pi Meson, 319 and the electromagnetic force, which is carried by the photon. 320 It turns out that a vacuum isn't really a vacuum, after all. 321 Such things as 'virtual particles' exist, which means that for an 322 instant (or slightly longer) a particle and an antiparticle come into 323 existance where nothing existed before, and usually annihilate them- 324 selves an instant afterwards. Impossible, you say? Not really, the 325 Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle allows this, if the uncertainty 326 in the mass (size of particle) multiplied by the time (length of 327 duration) doesn't exceed a particular amount. 328 The more massive a particle is, the shorter a time it is likely 329 to exist, and less probable, too. This means that heavy particles cause 330 weak forces, and light particles cause strong forces (very simplified 331 generalization). 332 The Weak Force is still stronger by a wide margin that gravitational 333 force, so the graviton, if it exists, should be discovered much later. 334 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 335 336 I THINK I JUST DISCOVERED A BLACK HOLE. YES, I'M SURE I DID. THERE IT IS, 337 RIGHT OVER THERE? SEE IT? IT'S SOOOO BLACK! WOW. HOW DO I KNOW IT'S A 338 BLACK HOLE? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S BLACK, AND IT CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE A 339 BLACK HOLE. IT SMELLS LIKE A BLACK HOLE. IT SOUNDS LIKE A BLACK HOLE. 340 I THINK I'LL GET CLOSER AND SEE IF IT FEELS LIKE A BLACK HOLE... YES, I'M 341 REALLY CLOSE NOW..... I CAN DEFINITELY SAY THAT IT STILL LOOKS LIKE A 342 BLACK HOLE.... IT EVEN FEELS LIKE 343 A BL 344 AC 345 K 346 H 347 O 348 L 349 E 350 OOOOOOOO 351 O O 352 O O 353 O O 354 OOOOOOOO 355 (SLURP) 356 -------------------------------------------------------------------- 357 Ahh, At last you begin to think! Instead of monotoning your mantra 358 "It's impossible. It' impossible. It's impossible. It's impossible." 359 you are now looking at the possiblities of how you could do something 360 if you could take care of some aspect. This is how science advances. 361 I see someone out there is keeping up to date on the lastest happenings. 362 instead of quoting from text books out of college from 'a few years ago'. 363 (Which were probably a few more years older then that.) Bravo! At least 364 you maintain a true intestest in that which you discuse. I also see 365 that someone is looking at ways to get around anther part of the equation 366 which I had not discused. that being the speed of light constant. Making 367 the constant a variable I have to admit is an intestesting aproach. 368 I was begining to wonder if there was anyone left in this world who 369 could think and question the existing of the world. 370 ** CISTOP MIKEY APPLUDING YOU *** 4 JUN 83 *** 10:21AM *************** 371 >>>>>>> Reluctant to interrupt such a high-level conversation...! <<<<<<< 372 ############################################################################! 373 WHAT ARE PEOPLES OPINIONS ON THE ARTICLE IN BUSINESS WEEK 6-6-83 CONCERN 374 ING THE USE OF SILICON DISCS(2 1/2 IN)WITH FULL PRINTED CIRCUITS AND 375 BACK UP INSTEAD OF A BATTERY OF MICRO CHIPS(TRILOGY SYSTEMS CORP.)????????? 376 ********************************************************************** 377 Ahh.. Milady, your voice is always welcome here. Come pull up a chair 378 and rest your feet. We can talk of other things, for we only banter 379 in the joy of friendship. 380 *********** Innkeeper **************** 12:01PM ***** 4 JUN 83 ******* 381 Another piece of nonsense about dragons: 382 First Chinese woman: 'I want a man with one Dragon on his chest'. 383 Second Chinese woman: 'I want a man with two Dragons on his chest'. 384 Third Chinese woman: 'I want a man with one draggin' on the ground'. 385 386 Sorry about that one, just read it somewhere..... 387 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 388 IT WAS HERE! THE DISK ON WHICH IT WAS HAS SINCE BEEN ARCHIVED...... 389 ....................................................... 390 ---------- 391 To: All From: Tron Re: Stuff 392 I am also a person that likes to find ways out of "impossible" 393 situations. But, I have a big question. Why doesn't the mass you 394 use up go flying out into space instead of attaching itself to 395 you and making you more massive? Just curious....... 396 397 Tron 398 ---------- 399 Ok you mental midgets and pea-brains. If you can't understand 400 science that's ok with me, just don't spread nonsense about 401 your view of relativity around here. Facts are facts, even 402 if you can't comprehend them. Your agreement is totally 403 unnecessary and pointless, and some day you will find that 404 out. 405 You may feel a need to 'do the impossible.' I do to, 406 except that I am capable of realizing when something is 407 impossible because of physical laws, as opposed to it being 408 impossible simply because people say it's impossible. 409 The whole discussion has been a 'tempest in a teapot' as 410 far as I'm concerned. Until I hear some more accurate statements 411 being made concerning this subject, my opinion will not change. 412 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 413 I just saw the movie Wargames. Ok, with a few exceptions. How about a 414 new discussion topic, common misrepresentations of computers in literature 415 (especially movies). 416 In Wargames, the war simulation computer (WOPR) was portrayed like 417 the typical 1950's computer, with banks of lights flashing on and off. 418 I ask you, since when have computers been built with long rows of 419 flashing lights? True, many computers have very small front panels with 420 lights, but I don't know of anything built within the last 15 years that 421 has a lot of lights. Question: So why are computers portrayed this way? 422 Second, the idiots who wrote the movie found it necessary to give 423 the computer a synthesized voice. Since when does any computer need a 424 voice? What was particularly stupid was the fact that the though the 425 voice was actually generated by the kid's Votrax (or whatever) the 426 voice showed up 500 miles from the guy's house. 427 Unfortunately, movie producers don't realize (or perhaps they 428 do...) that a computer's appearance is usually quite boring (no 429 flashing lights or voice). To us, the computer cognoscenti, this is 430 not surprising, but to someone trying to make a movie to appeal to 431 the ignoramus masses, they have to embellish the truth. 432 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 433 You speak of 'physical laws' yet the theory of relativity is not 434 a 'law' if you look real close you will see the word 'theory' in the 435 phrase 'theory of relativity'. The reason that it is still a theory and 436 not a law is because it has not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt 437 to be true, nor does it have other supportive laws for proof to lead it 438 to being a law. I would suggest you get your own facts straight sir. 439 I will stop with my blather in regard to relativity, as those who 440 would listen have, and those who would not still have not. It is a 441 shame though that there are those out there who refuse to consider 442 the impossible just because someone in authority says it is. 443 Despite the fact that the very theories they are holding so precariously 444 were obtained by questioning the impossible to begin with. -- sigh -- 445 Authority: Someone other then yourself; The greater the distance 446 the greater the power of that authority. A quote from a friend of mine. 447 **** CISTOP MIKEY ** THE END ** 11:20PM ***** 4 JUN 83 ************ 448 To whoever asked why computers are shown in the movies with flashing 449 lights: I think you answered it yourself, a black or blue box is dull. 450 451 Who blathers about something being a "theory" rather than "physical law"? 452 There is no diference. We see something, and guess about why it happened. 453 At first this is called a suggestion (or some such, there isn't any good 454 term for a first guess), then after it is a little better accepted, it 455 acquires the more high-faluting name of theory. (It helps to be hard 456 to understand if you want to be called a theory.) After a while, it is 457 even better accepted and if noone complains to loudly it is called a 458 law of nature, or some such. The real difference between guess, theory, 459 and law is the gulibility of the speaker. 460 461 For example: 462 For a long time it was known that the world was flat. (Maybe it curved up 463 a little at the edges) Every ones experince agreed with this, and no 464 experiments disproved it. It was true. ::: Time passed, and knowlege 465 incresased, including some things that implied the world was not flat. 466 <Ships slowly fading from view, the shadow on the moon during eclipse,etc> 467 It was then theorized that the Earth was round. Saying this was heretical, 468 thou, and dangerous at first, but it came to be truth. BUT, it is now 469 known that the Earth is not a sphere at all, but slightly flattened at the 470 poles, and somewhat pinched in the northern hemisphere. It even changes 471 with the tides....Truth never changed, but our perceptions did. 472 Now if something was ever true about the universe, it is still true today, 473 so how did the flat earth become round? It didn't. In fact, a flat earth 474 theory is a very good description of the world most of us live in, it is 475 only very rarely that we experince the curvature of the earth, and the 476 deviations from a sphere are very rarely important unless you are targeting 477 ICBM's. The flat earth is actually better: it is easier to visualize. 478 Of course the time may come when you need more accuracy, but it won't 479 affect a state road map, and when you need it, then accept that your 480 earlier description was only an approximation, and use a better approx. 481 Eventually you will realize that all descriptions os reality, whether you 482 call them theories, laws, or whatever, are just approximations. 483 Hey, Mike, I can type almost as good as you, only about 1 typo per line. 484 485 Thanks for the stuff on the heavy particles. 486 .............................................B.A.D.......Jun 5,83,,0036 am.... 487 Milady of dragons, 488 The project is complete. The words have now formed and they say that 489 one and a half of the kings inches do they hold. The words they shall 490 fly on the Monday here after and with hope they will soon to meet the 491 destination towards which they are bound. 492 *** ye old Innkeeper of the Backwater Inn *** 1:03AM *** 6 Jun 83 ***** 493 Tron: Light does slow down when going thru any transparent medium 494 other than a vacuum. In fact the index of refraction is the ratio 495 of the speed in a vacuum to the speed in the substance (Ir=Sv/Ss) 496 Some interesting effects occur when a particle exceeds this 497 lowered speed of light. The speed of light that can't be exceeded 498 (we think) is the speed of light in a vacuum. 499 As to the mass increase, it doesn't come from the mass you 500 used up. It comes from the mere fact that you are travelling at 501 high speed. EVERYONE PLEASE NOTE!! Science is supposed to explain 502 what & how, NOT WHY!! Also, at high speeds YOU wouldn't think 503 YOUR mass had increased! YOU would think that the mass of the 504 rest of the universe had increased. There are some EXTREMELY 505 far-out suggestions that some of the braver physicists have made 506 that lead to many "impossible" things. All the talk about the 507 flat earth makes me wonder how much history they know. The 508 GREEKS knew the earth was round (they even figured out a very 509 close value for the diameter). Proofs didn't really enter into 510 things until the late 1600s. In fact you could almost say that 511 "science" didn't exist until then. In any case, any new theory 512 has to include both Newtonian & Einsteinian physics as special 513 cases that apply to the areas in which they have been tested. 514 General relativity may not be totally correct but some things 515 it has predicted have been measured. One of the stranger ones 516 is the frequency shift in a laser beam traveling against the 517 earth's gravity. 518 On that bit about spinning masses & gravity, what I 519 THINK he may have been talking about is called "dragging the 520 metric". This is where a (VERY) massive object creates "gravity- 521 like" forces by (in effect) dragging the fabric of space-time 522 along with it when it moves. Some "anti-gravity" devices have 523 been designed using this effect (or a similar one predicted by 524 NEWTONIAN physics!). Unfortunately, you need something rather 525 denser than neutronium to build them. 526 Have you heard of the idea that the entire UNIVERSE 527 may be a black hole? The bigger the radius of a black hole 528 the less dense it needs to be. 529 ______________________________________________ 530 p.s. to B.A.D. or Mikey (I forget which of you made the comment) 531 As far as can be told from what we know right now, questions 532 like "what if we kept the mass from increasing" are ALMOST in 533 the same league as "what if blue was red". Note I said "almost" 534 you would get a slightly better response if you said "what if 535 we could neutralize the mass increase". (There IS a difference, 536 one is like saying "what if gravity didn't exist" & the other is 537 "what if we could neutralize gravity". The difference between a 538 TOTALLY impossible premise & a THEORETICALLY impossible premise!) 539 As someone said "to successfully replace a modern scientific 540 theory, you must FIRST be an expert with the theory you wish to 541 replace" 542 ________________________________________________________________ 543 Oh, wow. MOVIE computers have flshing lights for the same reason that 544 explosins are big, loud, and exiting in movies. Not accurate, but fun. 545 Although, my pet peeve has always been the varying pitched beeps in most 546 low grade and some high grade movie computers. That is, until I heard 547 the Ben Franklin computer. For real, man: it BEEPS JUST LIKE THE MOVIES, 548 just not as loud. 549 =========================================================================== 550 Yup, yup, yup. 551 The siderial universe is a very complicated thingamabob and the descrip 552 tions we poor humans have come up with to keep track of what we see (or think 553 we see) are getting a might complicated. It's about time a new genious 554 arises to explain what the heck is going on! Whatever replaces Einstein's 555 theories as the best description of the universe we live in, will probabbly 556 not invalidate ol' Alberts rules of order. It will just extend and (hope- 557 fully) simplify them. 558 From observation and Theory (capital T means the theory predicts) we 559 can be reasonably sure that you can't get past the light barrier with a 560 newtonian rocket ship. Some other way is needed. The only reason a 561 "Subspace Drive" or "Warp Drive" or "Transmat" can't be built today is 562 because we don't have the slightest idea how! There doesn't seem to be 563 any thearetical reason you can't do it except that not often mentioned 564 fly called "causality", which may have been fixed by a guy in a wheel- 565 chair in California. 566 Ramblin' on 567 the Phantom Glitch 568 569 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++6+5+83+++12:00+++++++++++++++ 570 For an interesting article on the subject of the origin of the universe, 571 check Discover mag, June issue, page 92. It discusses the history back 572 to 10 e-43 seconds after Big Bang. Including the idea of expanding space, 573 domain walls in the universe, Higgs fields, etc. 574 And how about the article in Scientific American a few months ago 575 that considered the future of the universe, up to about the year 10 e100. 576 577 The Discover article suggests that the Universe is one big free 578 lunch, generated by a semirandom fluctuation of NOTHING. I guess this 579 means we are all figments of our own non-existant imagination, non- 580 existantly comtemplating each other's non-existance. Heavy stuff. 581 Try it. You'll probably not understand it, but you might like it. 582 -------------------------------- 583 THE REASON FOR ALL THE CONFUSION ABOUT THEORIES IS THIS: TO THE LAYMAN, 584 THE TERM THEORY SUGGESTS AN EXPLANATION WITH LITTLE OR NO PROOF, 585 GENERATED BEFORE ANY EXPERIMENTS. WHILE TO A SCIENTIST, THEORY MEANS 586 AN EXPLANATION THAT IS BACKED UP ALREADY BY EXPERIMENT. SO WHEN A 587 SCIENTIST REFERS TO AN IDEA WHOSE CORRECTNESS IS NOT REALLY IN DOUBT, 588 HE CALLS IT A THEORY, WHICH IMPLIES TO THE LAYMAN THAT THIS IDEA 589 IS NOT VERY CERTAIN. 590 THE 'THEORY OF RELATIVITY' , AND FOR THAT MATTER MANY OTHER THEORIES, 591 WILL BE CALLED BY THAT NAME LONG AFTER THEY ARE CONSIDERED CERTAIN 592 BY SCIENTISTS. 593 UNFORTUNATELY, THIS CONFUSION IS SIEZED BY ANTI-SCIENCE OR 594 NON-SCIENCE QUACKS, WHO USE IT TO ARGUE THEIR PET IDEAS OF HOW 595 THE WORLD WORKS. TRIVIA QUESTION: HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF 596 J.W. ECKLIN? IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. 597 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 598 AHH, I SEE YOU ARE STIL TRYING TO USE THE AUTHORITARIAN APPROACH TO 599 THE QUESTION. I.E. THIS GUY IS IMPORTANT, AND HE SAYS IT IS TRUE 600 THEREFOR IT IS! IT IS A SHAME YOU CAN'T THINK FOR YOURSELF. 601 ................................................................. 602 I would have to disagree with you as to the general usage of the 603 term 'theory'. In general the theory is created to attempt to 604 explain the results of the experiment in terms that the 605 scientists who performed it can understand. 606 The suggestion as B.A.D. indicated is what caused the experiment to 607 be done in the first place. The 'law' comes into play after the idea 608 has been kicking around under foot for so long that nobody has seriously 609 disagreed with it that it just drifts into being called a law rather then 610 theory. This however does not make it any more valid then befor. Remember 611 the law of gravity what goes up must come down is violated almost dayly 612 by rockets sending things into earth orbit and beyond. 613 Have you ever heard the answers given by a group of people 614 who saw some action? Its amazing the variety of answers that 615 are given. Scientists being human are not exempt from this either. 616 ********* CISTOP MIKEY **** 5 JUN 83 **** 1:00PM ************ 617 618 For Sale....... 619 D.C. Haves Micromodem ][ for the Apple ][. 620 If you can read this you probably don't 621 need one, but maybe you have a friend 622 that does. It is in very good condition 623 and includes the Videx firmware ROM. 624 Asking $225.00. 625 Call Glenn at...... 626 655-xxxx ext 329 DAYS 627 659-xxxx after 6 EVES 628 629 the universe is a fig newton of your imagination...............................