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Title: Conversations With Gavrilo Princip Author: Martin Pappenheim Date: 1916 Language: en Topics: interview, assassination, propaganda of the deed, Bosnia, Yugoslavia, nationalism, World War I, notes, psychoanalysis Source: Retrieved on 30th July 2020 from https://libcom.org/history/did-teenage-anarchists-trigger-world-war-one-what-was-politics-assassins-franz-ferdinand Notes: Notes of interviews between psychoanalyst Dr Martin Pappenheim and Gavrilo Princip, one of the assassins of Franz Ferdinand while he was imprisoned, with an introduction on the political background of the conspirators.
World War I had far deeper causes than the assassination of Franz
Ferdinand. But, if the assassination had never happened, then a world
war may have been delayed for years - or may have never happened at all.
This makes it important to understand the politics of the assassins.
At least one, the 19 year old Nedjelko Cabrinovic, who threw a grenade
on 28 June, had been both a Social Democrat and an anarcho-syndicalist.
He had also helped lead printers' strikes. Gavrilo Princip, the other 19
year old who shot Franz Ferdinand dead, was also influenced by Kropotkin
and Bakunin. And both men had read William Morris's News From Nowhere.
Tragically, like so may other 20th century revolutionaries, Cabrinovic
and Princip's radicalism became misdirected into the poison of
nationalism and militarism. They had hoped to help trigger a revolution.
Instead they helped trigger World War I.
In 1916, Dr. Pappenheim, a future collaborator with Sigmund Freud,
interviewed Princip in his cell in Terezin/Theresienstadt.
Here since 5 XII 1914. The whole time in solitary confinement. Three
days ago, chains off. Father a peasant, but occupies himself with
enterprises. Father a quiet man, does not drink. Father lives at
Grahovo, Bosnia. No diseases in the family. School at Sarajevo 5
classes, then 3 classes at Belgrade without matura.
Always has been healthy. Knew nothing of serious injuries before the
assassination. At that time injuries on the head and all over. At that
time senseless. Scarlet fever. No bed-wetting. In the Gymnasium,
sleepwalking. Walking about the room. Only during one year. Was waked
up. In the third class. Never had attacks of unconsciousness.
Always “excellent student” up to the fifth class. Then fell in love.
Began to have ideals. Left the school in Sarajevo in 1911. At that time
nationalistic demonstrations were taking place against Tisza. Was in the
first lines of the students. Was badly treated by the professors. Read
many anarchistic, socialistic, nationalistic pamphlets, belles letters
and everything. Bought books himself; did not speak about these things.
Father not occupied with political matters. Was not much with other
schoolboys, always alone. Was always quiet, sentimental child. Always
earnest, with books, pictures, etc. Even as a child was not particularly
religious.
Designates the year 1911 as critical. Went alone to Belgrade. Told
nobody about it. Father and brother would not send any money. Promised
to be a good student. Then they agreed with his remaining in Belgrade.
Father 54 years old, mother 45 years. Two other brothers, one 26, one 18
years. Six others died as small children before 10 years. Himself the
fourth child. Of his brothers, one a student in the Real-schule and the
other a merchant. Brothers quite ordinary men. The love for the girl did
not vanish, but he never wrote her. Relates that he knew her in the
fourth class; ideal love, never kissed; in this connection will reveal
no more of himself. Study as a private student. Intercourse with nobody,
solitary, always in libraries. Wanted to go into the Balkan War, but was
found too weak. Was every year for some months as a brother’s in the
neighborhood of Sarajevo.
Only in May, 1914, took examinations for the eighth class. At the time
of the assassination was injured on the head and back and all over. Took
cyanide of potassium, but was weak and vomited.
It is very hard in solitary confinement, without books, with absolutely
nothing to read and intercourse with nobody. Always accustomed to read,
suffering most from not having anything to read. Sleeps usually only
four hours in the night. Dreams a great deal. Beautiful dreams. About
life, about love, not uneasy. Thinks about everything, particularly
about conditions in his country. He had heard something about the war.
Had heard a tragic thing, that Serbia no longer exists. His life is in
general painful, now that Serbia does not exist. It goes hard with my
people. The World War would not have failed to come, independent of it.
Was a man of ideals wanted to revenge the people. The motives - revenge
and love. All the young men were in the same sort of revolutionary
temper. Spoke of anarchistic pamphlets which incited to murder.
Thinks differently today, thinks a social revolution is possible in all
Europe, as things are changing. Will say no more in the presence of the
guard. Is not badly treated. All behave properly toward him.
Admits attempt at suicide a month ago. Wanted to hang himself with the
towel. It would be stupid to have a hope. Has a wound on the breast and
on the arm… A life like mine, that’s impossible. At that time, about 12
o’clock, he could not eat, was in bad spirits, and on a sudden came the
idea to hang himself. If he had opportunity he would do it. Thinks of
his parents and all, but hears nothing of them. Confesses longing. That
must exist in everybody.
He recognizes me immediately and shows pleasure at seeing me. Since 7 IV
here in hospital. Always nervous. Is hungry, does not get enough to eat.
Loneliness. Gets no air and sun here; in the fortress took walks. Has no
longer any hope for his life. There is nothing for him to hope for. Life
is lost. In former days was a student, had ideals. Everything that was
bound up with his ideals is all destroyed. My Serbian people. Hopes that
something may turn for the better, but is skeptical. The ideal of the
young people was the unity of the South Slav peoples, Serbs and Croats,
Slovenes, but not under Austria. In a kind of state, republic or
something of the sort. Thought that if Austria were thrown into
difficulties then a revolution would come. But for such a revolution one
must prepare the ground, work up feeling. Nothing happened. By
assassination this spirit might be prepared. There already had been
attempts at assassination before. The perpetrators were like heroes to
our young people. He had no thought of becoming a hero. He wanted merely
to die for his idea. Before the assassination he had read an article of
Kropotkin about what we can do in case of a world-wide social
revolution. Studied, talked about it. Was convinced it was possible…
For two months has heard nothing more of events. But it all is
indifferent to him, on account of his illness and the misfortune of his
people. Has sacrificed his life for the people. Could not believe that
such a World War could break out as a result of an act like his. They
did indeed think that such a World War might break out, but not at that
moment.
On being requested to write something on the social revolution, he
writes on a sheet of paper the following, saying that for two years he
has not had a pen in hand. Translates:
“On a certain occasion we spoke among comrades on a question which
Kropotkin had put in Welfare for All - What will the anarchists do in
case of a social revolution? We all took this more for a phrase of an
old revolutionist than that he had seriously thought such a revolution
possible at this time. But we nevertheless all debated over this
revolution and nearly all admitted that such a revolution was possible,
but according to our conviction that previously in all Europe there must
be created between peoples…”
Broke off here, feeling ill. My thoughts are already - I am very
nervous.
…Cannot believe that the World War was a consequence of the
assassination; cannot feel himself responsible for the catastrophe;
therefore, cannot say if it was a service. But fears he did it in vain.
Thought that Serbia and Montenegro should help in case of a revolution
of the national States in Austria.
Our old generation was mostly conservative, but in the people as a whole
existed the wish for national liberation. The older generation was of a
different opinion from the younger as to how to bring it about. In the
year ’78 many Serb leaders and generals prayed for liberation from the
Turks. The older generation wanted to secure liberty from Austria in a
legal way; we do not believe in such a liberty.
It naturally goes hard with our co-nationals in Austria. Also does not
believe it goes well with the Czechs and Poles. Has heard and read that
the Slav peoples in Austria are badly off. Are persecuted. In Bosnia
high treason trials and Iznimne mjere - exceptional law. That often
existed in Bosnia. In Bosnia too few schools. In Serbia more, ten times
more. In Belgrade six Gymnasia, in all Bosnia four. One million, nine
hundred thousand people of all faiths.
The time before he wrote ten lines and one word. Now after this talk he
continues writing again. Stops often and reflects. Complains himself
that it is difficult for him. Ceases writing again after fifteen lines.
Again translates:
“… there must be created a relation where all differences equalize…, are
equalized, between European peoples. But we as nationalists, although we
had read socialistic and anarchistic writings, did not occupy ourselves
much with this question, thinking that each of us had another duty - a
national duty.”…
Wound worse, discharging very freely. Looking miserable. Suicide by any
sure means is impossible. “Wait to the end.” Resigned, but not really
very sad.
…Sometimes in a philosophical mood, sometimes poetical, sometimes quite
prosaic. Thinks about the human soul. What is the essential in human
life, instinct or will, or spirit - what moves man?
Many who have spoken with him think he is a child, think that he was
inspired by others, only because he cannot express himself sufficiently,
is not in general gifted as a talker. Always a reader and always alone,
not often engaging in debates.
Cabrinovic and Grabez were with him in Serbia. The three had resolved to
carry out the assassination. It was his idea. Thought first of an
attempt on Potiorek. Had come from Belgrade to Sarajevo, to his
brother’s. Was always in company of Ilic, who has since died; was his
best friend. Resolved that one of them should make an attempt on
Potiorek. That was in October or November, 1913. He was in the hospital.
Ilic was a little lightheaded, spoke of pan-Slavist ideas, said they
should first create an organization. In all Bosnia and Croatia. Then,
when all was ready, they should make the attempt. Therefore the plan was
given up. Wanted first to study further himself, at Belgrade in a
library. Thought he was not yet ripe and independent enough to be able
to think about it.
Went in February to Belgrade. Heard in March that the Heir Apparent
comes to Sarajevo. Thought it would be a chance. Spoke with Cabrinovic
on this matter, who was of the same opinion. Cabrinovic said he ought to
leave the attempt to him. But he was a type-setter, not of sufficient
intelligence. Thought he was not sufficiently nationalist because
previously and anarchist and socialist. Said they would both do it.
…Read much in Sarajevo. In Sarajevo used to dream every night he was a
political murderer, struggling with gendarmes and policemen. Read much
about the Russian revolution, about the fightings. This idea had taken
hold of him. Admits that the earlier constraints had vanished…
Knows Grabez from boyhood, was also with him at Belgrade. Knew that he
had similar thoughts. In March Grabez takes examination in the eighth
class and returns to Sarajevo to prepare for matura. Said to him to tell
Ilic. This one agreed. But he had no energy. Reading had - he
confessed - made him quite slack. Ilic was under his influence, though
he was five years older and already a teacher. Wrote he himself would
also take part. Said he should procure five or six weapons. In cipher
writing.
Grabez came back again to Belgrade a fortnight later, resolved on
participation. First Princip told him to save himself for another
occasion. But then we he came back to Belgrade, he said he would
participate. Major Tankosic knew at the last moment, when they were
already mentally ready.
Ciganovic, a Bosnian Serb, was there as deserter. Princip told him about
it because he had bombs, he was komitadji. When he was ready to go back
to Sarajevo he told him who it was that the attempt was to be made
against. Ciganovic promised him also to procure revolvers from Tankosic,
who was chief of komitadjis. Then got the revolvers. Went then, at the
end of May, the 26th of May, to Sarajevo.
In the following month he was still able to read and study quietly. Had
a nice library, because always was buying books. Books for me signify
life. Therefore now so hard without books.
Thought that as a result of repeated attempts at assassination there
could be built up an organization such as Ilic desired, and that then
there would be general revolution among the people. Now comprehends that
a revolution, especially in the military state of Austria, is of no use.
What he now thinks the right thing he would not say. Has no desire to
speak on the matter. It makes him unquiet to speak about it. When he
thinks by himself, then everything is clear, but when he speaks with
anybody, then he becomes uncertain.
If he had something to read for only 2-3 days, he could then think more
clearly and express himself better. Does not speak to anybody for a
month. Then when I come he wants to speak about ideas, about dominating
thoughts. He considered that if he prepared the atmosphere the idea of
revolution and liberation would spread first among men of intelligence
and then later in the masses. Thought that thereby attention of the
intelligentsia would be directed upon it. As for instance Mazzini did in
Italy at the time of the Italian liberation. Thought that the Kingdoms
of Serbia and Montenegro should be united.
When permission comes, arm is to be amputated. His usual resigned
disposition.
There is no need to carry me to another prison. My life is already
ebbing away. I suggest that you nail me to a cross and burn me alive. My
flaming body will be a torch to light my people on their path to
freedom.
Even when I was still at Sarajevo I had decided on an attentat. I often
went at night to Zerajitch’s grave. I managed to stay there all night
and thought over our affairs and our wretched condition, and then I made
up my mind.
In trying to insinuate that someone else has instigated the
assassination, one strays from the truth. The idea arose in our own
minds, and we ourselves executed it. We have loved the people. I have
nothing to say in my defense.