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Subject: Re: Apple//c newbie questions
From: spec@vax2.concordia.ca (Mitchell Spector)
Date: Thu, Oct 8, 1998 02�53(H
Message-id: <8OCT199805534625@vax2.concordia.ca>
In article gkomatsu@Hawaii.Edu (Galen Tatsuo Komatsu) writes...
>David Cross <dcross1@nospam.home.com> wrote:
>>An Apple ][+ with the old Disk ][ controller card (a collectors item these
>>days!) would be able to boot such a disk.
>
> Is there anything notable to distinguish them from a not-old
>Disk ][ controller?
Yep, you simply examine the P5 and P6 PROM chips on the controller.
The original P5 is marked '341-0009' and P6 marked '341-0010' and will
only work with 13-sector disks (DOS 3.2.1 or earlier). They're quite
rare to come across, I don't have any of the old PROMs myself actually.
The standard 16-sector PROMs had an "A" suffix, and were generally
marked P5A and P6A (or by the Apple part number: 341-0027 and -0028).
Some of the early controllers had a sticker showing a red apple logo
with the number "16" in the middle to indicate it was upgraded or
pre-shipped with the newer PROMs. They've been around since DOS 3.3.
>>Almost all software written for the ][+ will work on a //c as long as it
>>is on a DOS 3.3 or ProDOS disk.
>
> Will BOOT13 from the DOS3.3 System Master disk work for 13 sector
>floppies?
You mean on an Apple IIc with its internal floppy drive? Yep, you
just run the BOOT13 program from a DOS 3.3 disk and then insert the
13-sector floppy when prompted to do so. I just tested this now on
my late model Apple IIc, booting up the Apple II Plus Dealer Service
Diagnostic disk dating back from 1979 (a 13-sector disk).
>....and I have some questions myself (guess who else got a //c recently?)
>since the library's copy of the tech ref is currently loaned out.
>
> Just what do the Keyboard and 40/80 buttons do?
I believe it is to toggle a softswitch that programs can detect,
and upon doing so, start up in your choice of either 40 or 80 column
text display. There were literally only 2 or 3 programs that ever
used this feature, so it was removed by the time the Apple IIc Plus
came out.
The short answer, it doesn't really do anything since 99.9% of
programs out there ignore it. :) (you could write you own to use
the switch, but there is little point).
> Is ctrl-CA-reset supposed to do nothing now?
That is normal behavior, as the IIc differs from the Apple IIe.
You must press Control + Open-Apple + Solid-Apple + Reset, and this
will invoke the built-in self-test (excluding the original IIc, ROM
255, which has no self-test).
> What does the external floppy connector accept? I saw a message
>from someone else looking for a Unidisk3.5 stating that his Apple 3.5 disk
>drive doesn't work with the //c, and guess what 3.5 drive I have... Also
>the Apple 5.25 disk drive (the daisychaining one with DB25 connectors.)
On the original Apple IIc (typing 'PRINT PEEK (64447)' reports
back a value of "255") your limited in that you can only add one
external 5.25 drive. Later versions of the IIc (value reported by
doing that PEEK reports "0", "3" or "4") will let you add up to
two external 5.25 drives, two or more UniDisk 3.5 drives as well
as other Smartport devices, like the Chinook floppy port hardisk.
In terms of 5.25 drives, you can use the Apple 5.25, UniDisk
5.25, DuoDisk 5.25, Disk IIc external, and even an old Disk II
if you have an IDC20 to DB19 adapter. Compatibles will work as
well of course. [Note: on the original IIc, the DuoDisk 5.25 will
still work, but it will only use the first drive and ignore the
second]
> Will the RGB port work with the monitor on my GS?
No, as it does not have an RGB port. What it does have is a
video expansion port, providing the necessary signals to use a
convertor adapter (Apple made an RF-modulator and Video 7 made
a digital RGB adapter, which was a box that plugged into the
port). The only device which works with the port directly is
the LCD flat panel display made for the IIc.
Apparently there was an analog RGB adapter made, which if
exists, would allow you to use the AppleColor RGB (the digital
adapter would work as well, but the colors would be wrong).
> Does it take a special mouse, or is it the same one as with the
>//e and early Macs?
It uses the same mouse used by the Macintosh Plus, 512e, 512,
128, XL, Lisa, Lisa 2 and Apple II Plus, IIe and III with a mouse
interface card. Those all uses the same DB9 male connector.
> The LCD Flat Panel Display (no, I didn't get one with my //c =^)
>I'm just wondering...) does it draw its power from the video signal or
>requires it's own source?
It draws its power from the video expansion port, through a
flat ribbon cable that plugs into the DB15 connector. As I'm
sure you know, both the Apple and C-Vue LCD screens were not
really passable as far as viewability goes (and that is going
by standards in the mid-80's, I'm not talking about today).
> Any notable quirks/differences to tell someone who's been using
>a //e most of his life? (Besides the physical attributes and lack of
>slots. =^)
Well some software hardcoded to work with a Disk II connected
to a controller card sometimes won't work (Broderbund's Drol and
Karateka come to mind, which is also a problem with the IIgs and
its disk port).
You should also know built-in devices are mapped to virtual
slots, such as the mouse mapped to "slot 4" (moved to "slot 7" on
the ROM 3, 4 and IIc+) the internal floppy mapped to "slot 6" and
a UniDisk 3.5 mapped to "Slot 5". On later versions the Slinky RAM
card is mapped to "slot 4" (and other obvious ones like Extended 80
Column Card to "slot 3" and serial ports to "slot 1" and "slot 2").
The second IIc had AppleTalk support firmware (just a _hook_ for
a device which would provide the actual hardware) in "slot 7", which
is why you will see the message "AppleTalk Offline" if you do a
'PR#7'. It was removed from future revisions since such a device
was never released.
Basically the IIc is the eqivalent of an Enhanced Apple IIe
(that is actually backwards, since the Enhanced IIe was to make
the IIe compatible with the IIc) with two built-in Super Serial
Cards, a mouse interface card, a Disk II controller (and Liron
card with newer ROM firmware), an Extended 80 Columns Card and
a 5.25 floppy drive. There were two major motherboard revisions,
four firmware revisions and of course, the IIc Plus which was
a whole new machine. I'll leave the discription of the
differences between them all for another post. :-)
Mitchell Spector
spec@vax2.concordia.ca