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[2021-12-01T00:18:56Z] <midfavila-laptop> Oh, hi phoebos
[2021-12-01T00:18:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> What'd you get up to?
[2021-12-01T00:40:04Z] <phoebos> worked with some data: https://tmp.bvnf.space/data.scm and https://tmp.bvnf.space/pearson.scm
[2021-12-01T00:40:33Z] <phoebos> no idea if the approaches i used are considered good practice
[2021-12-01T01:24:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> i definitely wouldn't know, pft
[2021-12-01T01:24:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> i haven't touched lisp in a while, unfortunately, outside of elisp
[2021-12-01T01:24:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> been focusing on maths
[2021-12-01T02:44:49Z] <acheam> phoebos: ew that man page is bad
[2021-12-01T02:45:00Z] <acheam> racket is a superset of the scheme standards
[2021-12-01T02:45:04Z] <acheam> AFAIK
[2021-12-01T02:45:21Z] <acheam> to be fair to racket, it has very good documentation
[2021-12-01T02:45:41Z] <acheam> its documentation itself is racket code, which lets you do some very powerful stuff
[2021-12-01T02:45:50Z] <acheam> the language is called "scribble"
[2021-12-01T02:46:08Z] <acheam> and all the documentation is in one place, for all pacakges
[2021-12-01T02:46:48Z] <acheam> I haven't used drracket, but I do use racket-langserver, which is a lanugage server for racket based on DrRacket's API, so it gives you the same functionality in whatever editor (in my case nvim)
[2021-12-01T02:47:51Z] <acheam> phoebos: I'm not very good at lisp, but your formatting is quite non standard from the lisp I've seen
[2021-12-01T02:48:11Z] <acheam> also does standard lisp not have the function define syntactic sugar?
[2021-12-01T02:48:43Z] <acheam> where you dont need the lambda
[2021-12-01T02:49:13Z] <acheam> hello midfavila-laptop 
[2021-12-01T02:52:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> racket is a superset of r5rs yes
[2021-12-01T02:52:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> and define is not a part of lisp itself
[2021-12-01T02:52:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> only lambda is technically provided
[2021-12-01T02:52:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> defun and define and etc are just sugar on a per-language basis
[2021-12-01T02:52:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> also hello acheam
[2021-12-01T03:06:50Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-12-01T03:13:02Z] <acheam> yay an early hi
[2021-12-01T03:13:13Z] <acheam> midfavila-laptop: oh nice
[2021-12-01T03:13:36Z] <testuser[m]> noocsharp: I'll try
[2021-12-01T03:13:47Z] <acheam> when you say "defun and define" I assume you mean the shorthand I'm referring to?
[2021-12-01T03:14:06Z] <testuser[m]> Have been working on a project for most of my time
[2021-12-01T03:14:06Z] <acheam> not a lack of a way to define variables
[2021-12-01T03:14:15Z] <acheam> nice what project?
[2021-12-01T03:14:46Z] <testuser[m]> matrix client
[2021-12-01T03:14:51Z] <testuser[m]> It definitely aint KISS though
[2021-12-01T03:15:43Z] <acheam> why isnt it kiss?
[2021-12-01T03:15:50Z] <acheam> c11 and cjson?
[2021-12-01T03:19:36Z] <testuser[m]> Needs a database
[2021-12-01T03:19:53Z] <testuser[m]> And matrix protocol itself is pretty big
[2021-12-01T03:20:09Z] <testuser[m]> Also i had to implement half assed generics in C using union Lol
[2021-12-01T03:20:14Z] <acheam> what kind of database?
[2021-12-01T03:20:27Z] <testuser[m]> Just for caching messages
[2021-12-01T03:20:39Z] <acheam> your own implementation, or sqlite or something?
[2021-12-01T03:20:45Z] <testuser[m]> lmdb
[2021-12-01T03:20:49Z] <testuser[m]> It's a key value store
[2021-12-01T03:21:08Z] <testuser[m]> So it's easy, i just store json and reparse it into a matrix event 
[2021-12-01T03:22:07Z] <testuser[m]> Don't need to do anything extra for this, I just reuse the original code that parsed the json from server in the first place
[2021-12-01T03:22:08Z] <acheam> nice
[2021-12-01T03:23:29Z] <acheam> oh interesting, lmdb is part of openldab
[2021-12-01T03:23:32Z] <acheam> ldap*
[2021-12-01T03:40:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> yes, that's what I'm referring to, acheam
[2021-12-01T03:40:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> sorry for the late response
[2021-12-01T03:40:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> i was playing games with a friend
[2021-12-01T03:40:57Z] <acheam> unnacepetable
[2021-12-01T03:41:01Z] <acheam> I must be attended to at all times
[2021-12-01T03:41:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> anyway the standard for defining variables is set afaik
[2021-12-01T03:41:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> maybe I should just write a mid-bot
[2021-12-01T03:44:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> also phoebos i'm disappointed you didn't use the method of successive approximation for your sqrt procedure
[2021-12-01T03:49:09Z] <acheam> midfavila-laptop: where in math are you now?
[2021-12-01T03:50:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, currently I'm working through serge lang's "Basic Mathematics", and I've just finished the second chapter, so I've worked out proofs for all basic principles of algebra and some basic proofs for systems of equations
[2021-12-01T03:50:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm working on geometric proofs as well
[2021-12-01T03:50:22Z] <acheam> nice
[2021-12-01T03:50:34Z] <acheam> it sounds like your learning much more in-depth and with a greater understanding than I ever did
[2021-12-01T03:50:42Z] <acheam> I wish I had your kind of motivation to do that
[2021-12-01T03:51:11Z] <bujeddhazeus> To each their passion, from which motivation flows
[2021-12-01T03:51:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, the way I see it is that I can't apply algorithms without an understanding of calculus and related fields, which require algebra and geometry, which in turn depend on arithmetic. meaning I need to become at least proficient in those if I want to have any hope of calling myself a computer scientist
[2021-12-01T03:51:30Z] <acheam> bujeddhazeus: brave of you to assume I have any passion
[2021-12-01T03:51:47Z] <bujeddhazeus> acheam: I lose mine a lot. I know how that goes
[2021-12-01T03:52:14Z] <bujeddhazeus> I felt too empty to learn anything during my 20's
[2021-12-01T03:52:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> and I mean, re:passion, I tend to get discouraged a lot
[2021-12-01T03:52:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> because it's like,
[2021-12-01T03:52:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> most people in my position already have at least a vague understanding of this stuff
[2021-12-01T03:52:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> meanwhile I'm over here working on the absolute fundamentals,
[2021-12-01T03:52:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> but then I remind myself that I'm being much more thorough and it's all okay again. - w-
[2021-12-01T03:53:05Z] <bujeddhazeus> midfavila-laptop: yeah... going in blind is more challenging
[2021-12-01T03:53:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, i'm going from essentially an eighth or ninth grade maths understanding, so that's definitely true
[2021-12-01T03:53:36Z] <bujeddhazeus> And thoroughly learning a subject is something I have a lot of trouble with
[2021-12-01T03:53:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> i ended up getting shafted pretty hard with school because of the pandemic
[2021-12-01T03:53:52Z] <bujeddhazeus> Aw
[2021-12-01T03:53:59Z] <hyrc> did you know that the WHO 'redefined' what a pandemic is?
[2021-12-01T03:54:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's pretty gay
[2021-12-01T03:54:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> they should just like
[2021-12-01T03:54:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> not do that
[2021-12-01T03:54:16Z] <bujeddhazeus> Are there good moocs out there still?
[2021-12-01T03:54:24Z] <hyrc> always beware the word benders, they never do it for your benefit
[2021-12-01T03:54:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> I'm looking at https://github.com/ossu/computer-science
[2021-12-01T03:54:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> they have a complete curriculum that's equivalent to a bach degree in CS
[2021-12-01T03:54:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm supplementing it with courses from MIT
[2021-12-01T03:54:50Z] <bujeddhazeus> Sweet
[2021-12-01T03:55:06Z] <bujeddhazeus> Good
[2021-12-01T03:55:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> currently I intend to learn Japanese and German and take a few philosophy courses, to round out my humanities
[2021-12-01T03:55:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> that way I can read all the latest animes and watch the latest mangas before they're translated
[2021-12-01T03:55:24Z] <bujeddhazeus> That's smart
[2021-12-01T03:55:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm very neurotic about these things uwu
[2021-12-01T03:55:46Z] <bujeddhazeus> Heh
[2021-12-01T03:55:48Z] <midfavila-laptop> honestly I wish I had the ability to focus for longer
[2021-12-01T03:55:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> right now I can only average about four or five hours of useful study per day
[2021-12-01T03:56:00Z] <bujeddhazeus> Use it while you can
[2021-12-01T03:56:14Z] <bujeddhazeus> I'm in my mid-30's now. The brain slows down
[2021-12-01T03:56:22Z] <bujeddhazeus> Hence big tech's ageism
[2021-12-01T03:56:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> although there was one day I clocked thirteen and a half hours of straight studies. that was motivating. 
[2021-12-01T03:56:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> and yeah, I've heard about that
[2021-12-01T03:56:41Z] <bujeddhazeus> Wow
[2021-12-01T03:56:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> unless you work hard to preserve neuroplasticity it drops off in your late twenties
[2021-12-01T03:56:51Z] <bujeddhazeus> Yeah all nighters working lol
[2021-12-01T03:56:59Z] <bujeddhazeus> Hmm I see
[2021-12-01T03:57:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> god, I pulled way too many all-nighters in the past few years
[2021-12-01T03:57:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> my sleep was so fucked
[2021-12-01T03:57:27Z] <midfavila-laptop> couldn't even muster the energy or focus to read books for the longest time
[2021-12-01T03:57:38Z] <bujeddhazeus> Heh I hear you
[2021-12-01T03:58:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> bleh, I'm gonna turn twenty in a couple weeks
[2021-12-01T03:58:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> i feel ancient
[2021-12-01T03:58:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> absolutely decrepit
[2021-12-01T03:58:21Z] <bujeddhazeus> Bahaha
[2021-12-01T03:58:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> >:c
[2021-12-01T03:58:37Z] <bujeddhazeus> You can't even drink in USA
[2021-12-01T03:58:47Z] * midfavila-laptop laughs in leaf
[2021-12-01T03:59:08Z] <bujeddhazeus> And you can't buy any weed yet in most of Canada
[2021-12-01T03:59:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> meh, drugs are a waste of time and money
[2021-12-01T03:59:21Z] <bujeddhazeus> Nah
[2021-12-01T03:59:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> i could spend that money on more textbooks
[2021-12-01T03:59:25Z] <bujeddhazeus> Therapeutic
[2021-12-01T03:59:29Z] <bujeddhazeus> Sure but
[2021-12-01T03:59:38Z] <bujeddhazeus> There's libgen for that
[2021-12-01T03:59:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> i don't like PDFs or ePubs
[2021-12-01T03:59:50Z] <bujeddhazeus> Ah
[2021-12-01T03:59:59Z] * bujeddhazeus has an eink kindle
[2021-12-01T04:00:03Z] <midfavila-laptop> physical books are a lot easier for me, especially when I work on my laptop
[2021-12-01T04:00:08Z] <bujeddhazeus> Ok
[2021-12-01T04:00:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> since my laptop's only got a vertical res of 768
[2021-12-01T04:00:25Z] <bujeddhazeus> Ooh Chromebook?
[2021-12-01T04:00:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> toughbook
[2021-12-01T04:00:40Z] <hyrc> laptops had crappy res for a long time
[2021-12-01T04:00:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> i used to have an IBM A31p 
[2021-12-01T04:00:56Z] <midfavila-laptop> which had an absolutely astonishing 1600x1200 screen
[2021-12-01T04:00:59Z] <hyrc> 1600x1200?
[2021-12-01T04:01:01Z] <hyrc> nice
[2021-12-01T04:01:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah
[2021-12-01T04:01:03Z] <midfavila-laptop> flexview
[2021-12-01T04:01:09Z] <hyrc> i need to repair mine
[2021-12-01T04:01:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> maxed the memory, upgraded the CPU, added master-slave CF cards
[2021-12-01T04:01:27Z] <midfavila-laptop> wireless, bluetooth, the whole nine yards
[2021-12-01T04:01:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> dual batteries...
[2021-12-01T04:01:32Z] <hyrc> what's m-s cf cards for
[2021-12-01T04:01:35Z] <bujeddhazeus> I'm going to be messing with wayvnc's experimental h264 support soon and hardware accelerate the encoding/decoding to an android tablet with that resolution actually, or almost. 1280x800 5"
[2021-12-01T04:01:37Z] <midfavila-laptop> hard drive replacement
[2021-12-01T04:01:41Z] <hyrc> it was a 'workstation' laptop
[2021-12-01T04:01:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah, but IDE SSDs are too expensive and too limited in capacity :P 
[2021-12-01T04:02:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> you can fit two CF cards in there ezpz
[2021-12-01T04:02:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> some asshole stole it from me though
[2021-12-01T04:02:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> i was so mad
[2021-12-01T04:02:21Z] <hyrc> i thought it had two slots
[2021-12-01T04:02:24Z] <acheam> lmao imagine accusing midfavila-laptop of being a chromebook
[2021-12-01T04:02:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> if you use one of the expansion bays yeah
[2021-12-01T04:02:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> you can have up to three
[2021-12-01T04:02:37Z] <acheam> the deepest insult known to humanity
[2021-12-01T04:02:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> but I used the two bays for extra batteries
[2021-12-01T04:02:47Z] <acheam> IDE SSDs are a thing?
[2021-12-01T04:02:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> why wouldn't they be
[2021-12-01T04:02:57Z] <hyrc> i think it was a pentium-m?  or p-III?
[2021-12-01T04:03:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> P4
[2021-12-01T04:03:07Z] <hyrc> hm 
[2021-12-01T04:03:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> not a mobile variant
[2021-12-01T04:03:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> desktop
[2021-12-01T04:03:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> i had a 2ghz model in mine with a custom heatsink
[2021-12-01T04:03:24Z] <acheam> midfavila-laptop: idk, I think about IDE as old and SSD as new, and them not having much overlap
[2021-12-01T04:03:28Z] * midfavila-laptop grinds their teeth together
[2021-12-01T04:03:31Z] <acheam> but I am proven incorrectly
[2021-12-01T04:03:35Z] <acheam> s/ly//g
[2021-12-01T04:03:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> SSDs were really popular in industrial computers as disks on module
[2021-12-01T04:03:45Z] <hyrc> https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:A31p
[2021-12-01T04:03:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> hmm
[2021-12-01T04:04:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> mine wasn't an M variant
[2021-12-01T04:04:13Z] <hyrc> a21p has the p-III
[2021-12-01T04:04:27Z] <midfavila-laptop> but yeah ever since that day I've had PTTS
[2021-12-01T04:04:33Z] <midfavila-laptop> post-theft thinkpad syndrome
[2021-12-01T04:04:40Z] <hyrc> i got that too
[2021-12-01T04:04:42Z] <midfavila-laptop> no other thinkpad can compare to the A31p
[2021-12-01T04:04:46Z] <hyrc> my x200 got kyped
[2021-12-01T04:04:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> rip
[2021-12-01T04:05:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> i should have installed a LoRa beacon in my machine...
[2021-12-01T04:05:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> the worst part isn't even that it was stolen
[2021-12-01T04:05:17Z] <hyrc> i have a borken one here if you want to fix one up
[2021-12-01T04:05:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's that some loser probably saw that it was old and then threw it out
[2021-12-01T04:05:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> and I mean, what's wrong with yours?
[2021-12-01T04:05:41Z] <hyrc> idk
[2021-12-01T04:05:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> hmm
[2021-12-01T04:05:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> does it just not turn on?
[2021-12-01T04:06:02Z] <hyrc> yes
[2021-12-01T04:06:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> bah, there could be any number of things wrong with it...
[2021-12-01T04:06:26Z] <hyrc> yes
[2021-12-01T04:06:40Z] <hyrc> oh here's one going for 12 euro 'for parts'
[2021-12-01T04:06:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> i've heard that the GPUs can overheat and disconnect from the motherboard in some revisions
[2021-12-01T04:06:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> so maybe that was it
[2021-12-01T04:07:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'll probably just stick with toughbooks though
[2021-12-01T04:07:15Z] <hyrc> that's panasonic?
[2021-12-01T04:07:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah
[2021-12-01T04:07:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> i used to use a Getac 
[2021-12-01T04:07:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> once I have the money I'm gonna buy an MNT Reform
[2021-12-01T04:07:39Z] <hyrc> i have a bunch of old hardware but i'm fanless addict now
[2021-12-01T04:07:47Z] <hyrc> if i can't run it fanless it stays off
[2021-12-01T04:07:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> my laptops are all fanless :P 
[2021-12-01T04:07:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> the Reform is fanless too, I believe
[2021-12-01T04:08:00Z] <acheam> midfavila-laptop: did you get rid of the getac since the other day when we spoke?
[2021-12-01T04:08:05Z] <acheam> I thought you had it then?
[2021-12-01T04:08:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> no, I still have the getac
[2021-12-01T04:08:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> i just don't use it as my main machine
[2021-12-01T04:08:18Z] <acheam> also this lora thing looks pretty cool
[2021-12-01T04:08:20Z] <acheam> oh I misread
[2021-12-01T04:08:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's gonna be going into the kitchen soon as a terminal
[2021-12-01T04:08:26Z] <midfavila-laptop> and yes, lora is very nifty
[2021-12-01T04:08:27Z] <acheam> "I used to use" as "I used to have"
[2021-12-01T04:08:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> i helped the civil engineering corps deploy a LoRa network a few years ago 
[2021-12-01T04:09:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> for monitoring the tide of the river and distributing information about flooding and shit
[2021-12-01T04:09:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> that was fun
[2021-12-01T04:09:19Z] <hyrc> what's a supercheap low power lora board 
[2021-12-01T04:09:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> raspi zero with a lora module slapped on top
[2021-12-01T04:09:52Z] <noocsharp> doesn't pine have some
[2021-12-01T04:09:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> maybe?
[2021-12-01T04:10:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> also hi noocsharp
[2021-12-01T04:10:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> you're a math nerd right
[2021-12-01T04:10:11Z] <noocsharp> hello, perhaps
[2021-12-01T04:10:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> have you ever read any of serge lang's books
[2021-12-01T04:10:28Z] <acheam> ha nerd!
[2021-12-01T04:10:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> thank you acheam
[2021-12-01T04:10:58Z] <noocsharp> i think i briefly wanted to read his number theory book a few years ago, downloaded it an never did
[2021-12-01T04:11:04Z] <hyrc> i wouldn't need that much computer tho
[2021-12-01T04:11:11Z] <hyrc> stm32 or something would be fine
[2021-12-01T04:11:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> aw, unfortunate. i wanted to ask a mathy person what they thought of his work
[2021-12-01T04:11:22Z] <hyrc> just relay some sensor data
[2021-12-01T04:11:24Z] <midfavila-laptop> i've been reading his "Basic Mathematics" lately
[2021-12-01T04:11:37Z] <noocsharp> what does it cover?
[2021-12-01T04:11:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> hyrc can't you just program a microcontroller then?
[2021-12-01T04:12:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> noocsharp everything in a K-12 mathematics program as well as first-year college maths, complete with proofs
[2021-12-01T04:12:02Z] <hyrc> yeah is there like a lora radio card with microcontroller and solar panel or somethin
[2021-12-01T04:12:20Z] <hyrc> that can send a few bytes per minute
[2021-12-01T04:12:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> so arithmetic, algebra, euclidean geometry, basic calculus, trigonometry, etc
[2021-12-01T04:12:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> hyrc you'll probably have to make that
[2021-12-01T04:12:33Z] <midfavila-laptop> i can't see it being hard though
[2021-12-01T04:12:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> if you want it to be Extra Reliable:tm: use an RCA CDP1802A
[2021-12-01T04:13:03Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's eight-bit but it's also shielded against electrostatic discharge and radiation
[2021-12-01T04:13:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> and it's fairly cheap
[2021-12-01T04:13:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> gonna make myself a microcomputer based on it
[2021-12-01T04:13:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> although I'd really rather modify it to be thirty-two bit so that it can have a flat address space...
[2021-12-01T04:14:01Z] <noocsharp> what was the last math book that you worked through?
[2021-12-01T04:14:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, I'm working through Basic Mathematics right now
[2021-12-01T04:14:22Z] <noocsharp> before that
[2021-12-01T04:14:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> as well as George Simmons' "Precalculus in a Nutshell"
[2021-12-01T04:14:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> and before that? elements of algebra
[2021-12-01T04:14:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> although I didn't finish elements of algebra
[2021-12-01T04:14:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> because the translation isn't modern english 
[2021-12-01T04:14:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's hard enough to self-teach mathematics without having to also interpret archaic grammar
[2021-12-01T04:16:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> but yeah, I'm gonna be working through those while also making regular tests for myself referencing James Stewart's precalc text, as well as Spivak's
[2021-12-01T04:17:38Z] <noocsharp> i worked through spivak, i think stewart was used in the precalc class at my high school
[2021-12-01T04:17:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> there's a book on proofs I want to get, as well, since I'm having some trouble grasping how proofs work
[2021-12-01T04:17:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> what do you think of them?
[2021-12-01T04:17:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> the books, not proofs
[2021-12-01T04:18:24Z] <noocsharp> what are you having trouble grasping about proofs?
[2021-12-01T04:18:37Z] <noocsharp> i liked spivak
[2021-12-01T04:18:45Z] <noocsharp> no opinion on stewart
[2021-12-01T04:18:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, for some stuff, I just don't get how it... proves things
[2021-12-01T04:19:07Z] <noocsharp> logs pls
[2021-12-01T04:19:21Z] <noocsharp> (like what?)
[2021-12-01T04:19:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> there was a geometric proof for the pytagorean theorem for example that tiled right triangles such that they were arranged in a square 
[2021-12-01T04:19:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> and then the book was like
[2021-12-01T04:19:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> "this proves the pythagorean theorem"
[2021-12-01T04:19:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> and I was just like
[2021-12-01T04:19:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> "wtf"
[2021-12-01T04:20:02Z] <noocsharp> think about what the pythagorean theorem says
[2021-12-01T04:20:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> the proof itself makes sense, but... idk I'm having a hard time articulating it exactly
[2021-12-01T04:21:11Z] <noocsharp> the a square with the length of the hypotenuse has the same area as the sum of the areas of squares with side lengths as the legs of the triangle
[2021-12-01T04:21:20Z] <noocsharp> s/the a/a/
[2021-12-01T04:21:41Z] * midfavila-laptop shrugs
[2021-12-01T04:21:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm just gonna work through a dedicated book of proofs
[2021-12-01T04:22:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> because the whole thing is just kind of vaguely defined and touched-on in my current books
[2021-12-01T04:22:16Z] <noocsharp> it's very cool because it turns the concept of a square of a number into a concrete geometric thing
[2021-12-01T04:22:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah, i've learned to appreciate geometry as a way of connecting statements to algebra
[2021-12-01T04:22:56Z] <noocsharp> a proof is simply a rigorous argument
[2021-12-01T04:23:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> mmh. i think the two main types of proof used are proofs from absurdity and proofs from axioms... can't recall the actual term for the latter atm
[2021-12-01T04:23:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's been a long day
[2021-12-01T04:23:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> deductive reasoning or whatever
[2021-12-01T04:24:32Z] <noocsharp> a proof is a proof, reductio ad absurdum is still deduction
[2021-12-01T04:24:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> no, I'm thinking of *inductive*. deductive is the other way around, durr
[2021-12-01T04:24:56Z] <noocsharp> an inductive proof is still deductive
[2021-12-01T04:25:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, fair enough, I guess
[2021-12-01T04:25:14Z] <noocsharp> induction is just a technique used in deduction
[2021-12-01T04:25:25Z] <noocsharp> (the mathematical sense of induction)
[2021-12-01T04:25:42Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah
[2021-12-01T04:25:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> induction is the specific term for what I was thinking of
[2021-12-01T04:26:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> applying axioms to derive more complex axioms
[2021-12-01T04:26:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> even if I don't become spectacular with mathematical concepts I'd at least like to be competent
[2021-12-01T04:29:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> oh, by the way, acheam, you might or might not find these useful
[2021-12-01T04:29:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> http://aduni.org/courses/
[2021-12-01T04:29:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> in particular the unix workshop
[2021-12-01T04:30:20Z] <acheam> midfavila-laptop: bookmarked, thanks!
[2021-12-01T04:30:24Z] <midfavila-laptop> np
[2021-12-01T04:30:28Z] <noocsharp> noble goal, but as you've heard from me before, the best way to learn these things is not textbooks but finding ways to apply things in real life
[2021-12-01T04:30:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> oh, definitely. it's unfortunate that I can't come across more organic applications of some of the concepts I've learned
[2021-12-01T04:30:57Z] <hyrc> to do some things in real life you need a foundation though
[2021-12-01T04:31:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> also that
[2021-12-01T04:31:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> i've been using lisp instead of a calculator while working on problems so to test my understanding of functions and concepts I've been working on a homebrew math library, which is at least something
[2021-12-01T04:31:37Z] <noocsharp> go write a program to evaluate a riemann sum or something
[2021-12-01T04:31:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> i don't even know what a riemann sum is
[2021-12-01T04:32:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> reminder that I'm actually a mathlet
[2021-12-01T04:32:26Z] <noocsharp> you'll find out soon enough
[2021-12-01T04:32:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> looks like it's something to do with calc, so hopefully
[2021-12-01T04:33:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> once I've become decent with single-variable calculus I think I'll be able to call myself at least numerate. that's the big goal right now
[2021-12-01T04:33:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> arithmetic, then algebra and geometry, then trigonometry and graphing stuff, probability and stats, then calculus and... from there idk
[2021-12-01T04:33:46Z] <acheam> its usually taught in calc courses, but you could probably learn it now if you wanted to
[2021-12-01T04:33:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> doubtful
[2021-12-01T04:34:48Z] <noocsharp> do you know what a derivative is?
[2021-12-01T04:34:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> the opposite of an integral
[2021-12-01T04:35:08Z] <acheam> do you know what an integral is?
[2021-12-01T04:35:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> nope
[2021-12-01T04:35:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> no clue
[2021-12-01T04:35:26Z] <midfavila-laptop> i only took up to tenth grade geometry before the pandemic happened
[2021-12-01T04:35:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> i have a lot of ground to cover
[2021-12-01T04:36:09Z] <noocsharp> a derivative of a function at a point is the limit of the approximation of slope at that point
[2021-12-01T04:36:38Z] <noocsharp> so its just a function that gives you the slope of the original function at some x value
[2021-12-01T04:36:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> i see.
[2021-12-01T04:37:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> once I have a deeper understanding of functions and their graphs I'm sure I'll appreciate your explanation more
[2021-12-01T04:37:08Z] <noocsharp> the integral is the area between the x-axis and the graph of a function
[2021-12-01T04:37:16Z] <noocsharp> there, you now know calculus
[2021-12-01T04:37:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> declaratively, maybe
[2021-12-01T04:39:27Z] <noocsharp> do you know what the slope of a function is?
[2021-12-01T04:39:30Z] <noocsharp> at a point?
[2021-12-01T04:39:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> i do not. like I said, my formal mathematics education never finished a tenth-grade level
[2021-12-01T04:40:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> and even then I was taught poorly
[2021-12-01T04:40:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> embarassing to admit, honestly.
[2021-12-01T04:40:30Z] <noocsharp> do you know what a tangent line is?
[2021-12-01T04:40:40Z] <acheam> the slope is just the rate of change of the function. So if the slope of a line is 2, then for every 1 unit a line moves in the X direction, it increases 2 in the Y direction
[2021-12-01T04:40:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> Ah.
[2021-12-01T04:40:58Z] <acheam> tangent lines usually come after learning slope, at least they did in my curriculum
[2021-12-01T04:41:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> Yeah, slope was the last thing I recall learning...
[2021-12-01T04:41:48Z] <noocsharp> well i asked because tangent lines are easy to understand conceptually
[2021-12-01T04:42:24Z] <noocsharp> actually nvm, probably makes sense to define in terms of slope
[2021-12-01T04:42:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> gonna point out that it's like
[2021-12-01T04:42:35Z] <midfavila-laptop> 1am
[2021-12-01T04:42:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> and my brain is fried right now
[2021-12-01T04:42:47Z] <acheam> stfu its 12:42
[2021-12-01T04:42:57Z] <noocsharp> stfu its 10:42
[2021-12-01T04:43:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> - w-
[2021-12-01T04:43:20Z] <acheam> ugh mountain timers
[2021-12-01T04:43:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> anyway, I just need to study more
[2021-12-01T04:43:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's the conclusion I've reached
[2021-12-01T04:43:31Z] <acheam> you dont even live near a mountain
[2021-12-01T04:43:32Z] <noocsharp> cst
[2021-12-01T04:43:55Z] <acheam> oh yeah
[2021-12-01T04:44:08Z] <acheam> for some reason I thought 11-10=2
[2021-12-01T04:44:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> big rip
[2021-12-01T04:44:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> that makes me feel a little better :P 
[2021-12-01T04:44:27Z] <acheam> mid, got any good books on preschool level arithmatic?
[2021-12-01T04:44:33Z] <midfavila-laptop> i mean
[2021-12-01T04:44:38Z] <noocsharp> learn to count with elmo
[2021-12-01T04:44:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> serge lang starts out by teaching you how to count
[2021-12-01T04:44:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> with proofs
[2021-12-01T04:45:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> and then in ten pages he's moved on to talking about factorials and shit
[2021-12-01T04:45:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> which is kind of amusing
[2021-12-01T04:45:26Z] <acheam> damn how could I forget about elmo
[2021-12-01T04:45:29Z] <noocsharp> well factorials are pretty important for counting
[2021-12-01T04:45:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> oh, definitely
[2021-12-01T04:45:43Z] <Denshi> yeah
[2021-12-01T04:45:49Z] <Denshi> so is a fundamental grasp of linear algebra
[2021-12-01T04:45:54Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's just amusing how he covers basically an entire k-10 education in as many pages
[2021-12-01T04:45:56Z] <Denshi> vector addition is essential for preschool knowledge
[2021-12-01T04:46:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> fuck
[2021-12-01T04:46:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm going back to preschool i guess
[2021-12-01T04:46:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> four year old me is literally a dumbass
[2021-12-01T04:47:03Z] <noocsharp> math textbooks often start out with chapters on what is supposed to be prerequisite knowledge
[2021-12-01T04:47:10Z] <hyrc> in a sense you're doing it when you catch a ball, yes Denshi :)
[2021-12-01T04:47:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> oh, well, yeah, that makes sense
[2021-12-01T04:47:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> but this book doesn't make any assumptions about requisite knowledge other than decent reading comprehension, I would say
[2021-12-01T04:48:19Z] <noocsharp> well that goes for many math textbooks, but a terse chapter on prerequisites may not be the best learning material
[2021-12-01T04:48:23Z] <noocsharp> just review
[2021-12-01T04:48:42Z] <midfavila-laptop> the arithmetic/algebra chapter is the longest one in the book last I checked
[2021-12-01T04:49:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> most chapters are no larger than maybe twenty pages
[2021-12-01T04:49:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> complete with proofs and exercises
[2021-12-01T04:49:27Z] <midfavila-laptop> my only complaint with it is that the bastard didn't include a full answer key
[2021-12-01T04:49:58Z] <noocsharp> tbh go grind khanacademy for a year
[2021-12-01T04:50:04Z] <noocsharp> that should get you up to speed
[2021-12-01T04:50:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> i worked on KA for about three months during the summer
[2021-12-01T04:50:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> i remember almost none of it
[2021-12-01T04:50:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> the material lacks substance. that and it was also like 40C+ in my apartment 
[2021-12-01T04:51:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> ...and I was sleep deprived, and there was a lot of shit happening, but point is, I didn't benefit as much from it as I have from my texts
[2021-12-01T04:51:08Z] <noocsharp> wdym lacks substance
[2021-12-01T04:51:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, there's not as many exercises as I would like, nor are there step-by-step proofs for things. not that KA is a bad resource because of either of those, especially the latter, but I do appreciate my texts as a primary resource
[2021-12-01T04:51:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> KA would shine as a secondary resource, I think
[2021-12-01T04:52:07Z] <noocsharp> it's probably the sleep deprivation and 40C+ that caused you to not remember anything
[2021-12-01T04:52:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah
[2021-12-01T04:52:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> anything about 20C and I just melt
[2021-12-01T04:52:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> above*
[2021-12-01T04:52:54Z] <testuser[m]> Bruh
[2021-12-01T04:52:56Z] <noocsharp> haha 20C
[2021-12-01T04:53:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> look I'm canadian
[2021-12-01T04:53:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> give me -20 and I'm fine
[2021-12-01T04:53:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> give me 20 and I die
[2021-12-01T04:53:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> what do you want
[2021-12-01T04:53:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> i fucking hate my province so much though. it has an 80-100C temperature gradient
[2021-12-01T04:53:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> -40 to 40 on average with extremes of -50 to 50
[2021-12-01T04:54:24Z] <hyrc> dig down far enough and you get stable temps
[2021-12-01T04:54:35Z] <noocsharp> at least you're province supplies you with water in that temperature range
[2021-12-01T04:54:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah and charges me a fortune in the process
[2021-12-01T04:55:07Z] <noocsharp> and electricity
[2021-12-01T04:55:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> also a fortune and it goes out constantly
[2021-12-01T04:55:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> can't fucking wait until I learn enough EE to build a decent UPS
[2021-12-01T04:55:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> NB Power can go suck a dick
[2021-12-01T04:56:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> oh, speaking of building things
[2021-12-01T04:57:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> not sure if any of you are into homebrew computers, but I found one that approximates the specs of an Amiga 1k 
[2021-12-01T04:57:25Z] <noocsharp> lmk when you do learn enough EE, i'll be on the look out for a story about an apartment building burning down
[2021-12-01T04:57:48Z] <hyrc> i did a digital electronics course. very fun
[2021-12-01T04:58:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm sure it'll be fine noocsharp :^)
[2021-12-01T04:58:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> https://www.tindie.com/products/rosco/rosco-m68k-revision-123/
[2021-12-01T04:58:29Z] <acheam> midfavila is electroboom confirmed
[2021-12-01T04:58:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> idek who that is
[2021-12-01T04:58:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> too busy inhaling textbooks to keep up with ecelebs
[2021-12-01T04:59:01Z] <acheam> yewtube him
[2021-12-01T04:59:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> uggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghfine
[2021-12-01T05:00:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah I mean this looks fine
[2021-12-01T05:00:24Z] <midfavila-laptop> seems more reputable than veritasium or other plebbit-tier soyence channels
[2021-12-01T05:01:30Z] <noocsharp> i want a riscv homebrew computer
[2021-12-01T05:01:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> riscv is literally going to bring about the technocalypse
[2021-12-01T05:01:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> nobody can dissuade me from this opinion
[2021-12-01T05:02:01Z] <noocsharp> wdym?
[2021-12-01T05:02:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> death of the IBM PC and hobbyist computing as we know it
[2021-12-01T05:02:35Z] <midfavila-laptop> commodity hardware that isn't total ass while still being flexible is going to become a myth
[2021-12-01T05:02:56Z] <midfavila-laptop> because stuff is just going to be cost-reduced to SoCs that require an internet connection to do literally anything
[2021-12-01T05:03:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> and people are going to be fine with it because "wow dude it's like so convenient and stuff to just do all my things in the cloud bro"
[2021-12-01T05:03:13Z] <noocsharp> alternatively we kill the ibm pc and build a better platform on riscv
[2021-12-01T05:03:29Z] <noocsharp> because riscv is just a processor architecture
[2021-12-01T05:03:33Z] <noocsharp> rather instruction set
[2021-12-01T05:03:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> and so is ARM, and yet the overall design of most ARM systems is that of an SoC that's cost-reduced to all hell and completely inflexible
[2021-12-01T05:04:13Z] <noocsharp> yes, but arm has licensing costs, so no individual can go and build an arm platform
[2021-12-01T05:04:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> and no individual can reasonably afford to make their own risc-v machine
[2021-12-01T05:04:37Z] <akspecs> thoughts on the m1 chip?
[2021-12-01T05:04:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> literally just an ARM core with a bunch of coprocs
[2021-12-01T05:04:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's nothing special
[2021-12-01T05:05:16Z] <noocsharp> macos is so slow that they had to make hardware faster than anybody else
[2021-12-01T05:05:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> but it's applel so it's Innovative:tm: and Courageous:r: and Brave:c: and all that other shit
[2021-12-01T05:05:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> honestly I think if I get another modern desktop PC I'll just save for a while and buy a POWER9 machine
[2021-12-01T05:06:02Z] <akspecs> noocsharp: is the hardware faster, or is it just as fast while using less power?
[2021-12-01T05:06:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's a poor question
[2021-12-01T05:06:21Z] <akspecs> how so?
[2021-12-01T05:06:24Z] <noocsharp> also have you seen the hifive unmatched midfavila?
[2021-12-01T05:06:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's extremely difficult to perform direct performance comparisons between even microarchitectures of the same ISA, let alone entirely different ISAs following entirely different principles
[2021-12-01T05:07:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> RISC will perform worse on more complex workloads and CISC will perform worse on simple workloads, as I understand it, so even in terms of power consumption it's difficult to make a case for things
[2021-12-01T05:07:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> but I'm also a NEET so feel free to ignore me
[2021-12-01T05:07:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> and yes I've heard of the unmatched noocsharp
[2021-12-01T05:07:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's that new development board right
[2021-12-01T05:08:15Z] <hyrc> a case could be made that we have more computing power than is good for us now
[2021-12-01T05:08:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> i mean, yes
[2021-12-01T05:08:26Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's indisputable 
[2021-12-01T05:08:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> making computers easily accessible was a mistake
[2021-12-01T05:08:51Z] <hyrc> at least there are some downsides
[2021-12-01T05:08:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> most of the internet's bandwidth is wasted on streaming services and social media
[2021-12-01T05:09:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> and all that results is massive environmental damage, brain rot, and a huge increase in global vitriol 
[2021-12-01T05:09:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> as well as yet another product to consoom
[2021-12-01T05:09:40Z] <hyrc> and the state has a command-and-control capability that's a bolshevik's wet dream
[2021-12-01T05:10:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> which is why we all need to go full schizo and design our own ISA and system architecture in our secret basement workshop 
[2021-12-01T05:10:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's an eventual goal of mine
[2021-12-01T05:10:25Z] <noocsharp> it's called risc-v + some future standard platform
[2021-12-01T05:10:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> >uses an SoC
[2021-12-01T05:10:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> already lost any interest in it
[2021-12-01T05:10:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> call me when there's a desktop form factor motherboard that uses a socketed CPU
[2021-12-01T05:11:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> until then it's useless to me
[2021-12-01T05:11:11Z] <testuser[m]> Soon
[2021-12-01T05:11:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> :tm:
[2021-12-01T05:11:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> doesn't even have a full sixteen lanes of PCIe
[2021-12-01T05:11:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> gonna stick with my 96 lanes and dual xeons thx
[2021-12-01T05:12:01Z] <noocsharp> with a garbage crufty architecture
[2021-12-01T05:12:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> look, I'm not happy about it either
[2021-12-01T05:12:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> if I could have a scaled-up 1802 or superh i'd be using that
[2021-12-01T05:12:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> unfortunately the former is only used in missiles and the latter is only used in cars
[2021-12-01T05:12:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> and risc-v has no modular backplanes or similar yet
[2021-12-01T05:13:18Z] <noocsharp> risc-v is an isa
[2021-12-01T05:13:27Z] <natris1979[m]> do ya'll know if it's possible to run wayland apps through a chroot?
[2021-12-01T05:13:27Z] <noocsharp> an isa cannot have modular backplanes, it can only have instructions
[2021-12-01T05:13:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> yes I'm aware of this
[2021-12-01T05:13:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> the fact remains that there are no modular systems that allow for the usage of a risc-v processor
[2021-12-01T05:13:48Z] <midfavila-laptop> at least that I am aware of
[2021-12-01T05:13:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> if there are, i'd be very interested
[2021-12-01T05:14:05Z] <noocsharp> Soon
[2021-12-01T05:14:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> :tm:
[2021-12-01T05:14:27Z] <testuser[m]> natris1979: bind mount /tmp export WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-1
[2021-12-01T05:14:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> the Reform is the closest I've seen to a modular RISC-V system
[2021-12-01T05:14:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> and even it uses an SoC
[2021-12-01T05:15:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> but it's a laptop so it kind of gets a pass
[2021-12-01T05:15:12Z] <noocsharp> isn't reform arm?
[2021-12-01T05:15:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's architecture agnostic
[2021-12-01T05:15:28Z] <noocsharp> hmm interesting
[2021-12-01T05:15:37Z] <midfavila-laptop> the standard compute module is ARM, but there are risc-v and xilinx modules in development
[2021-12-01T05:15:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> or, rather, the xilinx comes with a risc-v softcore loaded by default
[2021-12-01T05:16:04Z] <hyrc> i just want hardware that isn't backdoored
[2021-12-01T05:16:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> use nothing made after 1985
[2021-12-01T05:16:28Z] <noocsharp> reflections on trusting trust
[2021-12-01T05:16:33Z] <midfavila-laptop> i suggest buying an early lisp machine
[2021-12-01T05:16:34Z] <noocsharp> go make it yourself
[2021-12-01T05:16:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> someone should crowdfund a modern lispm
[2021-12-01T05:16:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> call it the EVAL
[2021-12-01T05:17:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> i wonder why that hasn't happened yet
[2021-12-01T05:17:19Z] <testuser[m]> make it happen
[2021-12-01T05:17:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> can I make it happen after I'm not a useless dweeb
[2021-12-01T05:17:41Z] <noocsharp> because people who like lisp are too busy evangelizing
[2021-12-01T05:17:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> they should just build stuf
[2021-12-01T05:18:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> stuff*
[2021-12-01T05:18:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> smh
[2021-12-01T05:18:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> make mcclim not perform like ass
[2021-12-01T05:18:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> that would be a good start
[2021-12-01T05:19:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> anyway, I really do need to sleep 
[2021-12-01T05:19:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> so I'm gonna log off in like five minutes
[2021-12-01T05:19:40Z] <noocsharp> same
[2021-12-01T05:21:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> right, well, it was good talking to you noocsharp
[2021-12-01T05:22:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> hopefully next time I'll be able to provide more interesting perspectives on math than "wow it's a thing"
[2021-12-01T05:22:19Z] <natris1979[m]> testuser: that's getting me closer for sure
[2021-12-01T05:22:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> see you later acheam and the rest of you
[2021-12-01T05:22:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> will probably be on tomorrow for a bit
[2021-12-01T05:22:43Z] <hyrc> ttyl
[2021-12-01T05:23:15Z] <natris1979[m]> but I think I'm mounting /tmp wrong. When I chroot it, it seems to blow away the contents of /tmp on the "host" (not sure if that's the right terminology
[2021-12-01T05:25:19Z] <testuser[m]> mount --bind /tmp /chroot/tmp
[2021-12-01T05:25:49Z] <hyrc> i don't see why the chroot needs to share tmp with host 
[2021-12-01T05:26:08Z] <testuser[m]> That's where the wayland socket is
[2021-12-01T05:26:16Z] <testuser[m]> Usually
[2021-12-01T05:26:22Z] <testuser[m]> Check XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
[2021-12-01T05:26:22Z] <hyrc> ok, doing gui stuff fine
[2021-12-01T05:26:24Z] <testuser[m]> and bind that
[2021-12-01T05:26:46Z] <natris1979[m]> testuser: yeah, I'm already sharing that folder successfully
[2021-12-01T05:26:53Z] <hyrc> the whole /tmp thing is fucked since idiots decided to make it a ram drive by default
[2021-12-01T05:27:09Z] <hyrc> now it's doing dual-use, including things that should never require a ram drive
[2021-12-01T05:27:17Z] <hyrc> like python putting gigs of files into it
[2021-12-01T05:27:23Z] <natris1979[m]> so maybe sharing /tmp is fruitless
[2021-12-01T05:27:33Z] <testuser[m]> natris1979: what error do u get
[2021-12-01T05:27:36Z] <testuser[m]> When running a program
[2021-12-01T05:29:57Z] <natris1979[m]> `[backend/wayland/backend.c:401] Could not connect to remote display: No such file or directory` then `couldn't create backend`
[2021-12-01T05:30:12Z] <natris1979[m]> but that's down from like 5 errors a minute ago!
[2021-12-01T05:30:26Z] <testuser[m]> Are u trying to run nested compositor from chroot
[2021-12-01T05:30:37Z] <testuser[m]> Then maybe share your gpu from /dev
[2021-12-01T05:30:47Z] <testuser[m]> It's in  /dev/dri but i bind mount the whole /dev
[2021-12-01T05:31:55Z] <natris1979[m]> yeah, it's iffy and experimental. Ultimately it connects to windows through wslg. (at which point you probably throw up your hands and "say you're on your own my friend"
[2021-12-01T05:32:12Z] <testuser[m]> Brush
[2021-12-01T05:32:14Z] <testuser[m]> Bruh
[2021-12-01T05:32:36Z] <natris1979[m]> lol. Yeah. Surprised I've been able to do this much
[2021-12-01T05:32:51Z] <hyrc> testuser[m]: btw you ever use barrier (synergy) to share mouse/kbd between computers?
[2021-12-01T05:33:01Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2021-12-01T05:33:19Z] <natris1979[m]> hyrc: I used to use that between linux and windows
[2021-12-01T05:33:27Z] <natris1979[m]> was pretty slick, really
[2021-12-01T05:33:28Z] <hyrc> it's on my todo to write a wayfire plugin that handles it
[2021-12-01T05:33:38Z] <hyrc> but i'd like to fob the project off on someone else
[2021-12-01T05:34:05Z] <hyrc> it's pretty fun natris1979[m] 
[2021-12-01T05:34:27Z] <hyrc> but the way to do it under wayland/wayfire is as a windowmanager plugin
[2021-12-01T05:35:03Z] <hyrc> just somebody needs to do it
[2021-12-01T05:35:32Z] <natris1979[m]> was really nice when I was still doing windows development part time. Glad those days are behind me
[2021-12-01T05:35:40Z] <hyrc> :)
[2021-12-01T05:36:53Z] <hyrc> shoulda invested in crypto.  i'd sponsor all kinds of cool FOSS stuff.
[2021-12-01T05:37:23Z] <natris1979[m]> I think I actually sent the synergy guy some money once
[2021-12-01T05:37:47Z] <hyrc> nice.  i supported freenx on arm if you remember that
[2021-12-01T05:38:21Z] <natris1979[m]> nope never heard of that one 
[2021-12-01T05:38:41Z] <hyrc> was basically x11 networking, compressed.  so you had reasonable performance over slow wifi
[2021-12-01T05:38:55Z] <natris1979[m]> oh that's neat
[2021-12-01T05:38:55Z] <hyrc> i used it on a psion netbook running debian
[2021-12-01T05:39:23Z] <hyrc> would run around with that on a little satchel and ppl were all impressed
[2021-12-01T05:39:30Z] <hyrc> before little computers were mainstream
[2021-12-01T05:40:08Z] <natris1979[m]> I suspect I'll probably end up getting this to work using a "remote" x client from windows. But I'd really like to do wayland if I can pull it off. I know it's a long shot
[2021-12-01T05:40:44Z] <hyrc> i'm kinda stupid now but wayfire was usable for me
[2021-12-01T05:41:00Z] <hyrc> soreau did great work with it
[2021-12-01T05:41:20Z] <hyrc> and x11 apps work on it pretty nice
[2021-12-01T05:42:08Z] <natris1979[m]> seems heavy to me (says the guy on windows). But on pure linux I'm a dwm guy
[2021-12-01T05:42:31Z] <hyrc> wayfire?
[2021-12-01T05:42:45Z] <natris1979[m]> at very first glance
[2021-12-01T05:43:07Z] <hyrc> wayfire doesn't waste cycles that I noticed
[2021-12-01T05:44:13Z] <hyrc> right now there's some badness with it and my current panfrost gpu drivers though
[2021-12-01T05:44:27Z] <hyrc> so i'm back to x until that resolves itself
[2021-12-01T05:47:06Z] <hyrc> panfrost is the best thing to happen to arm linux in a long, long time
[2021-12-01T05:47:14Z] <hyrc> heroes, those people
[2021-12-01T05:53:47Z] <natris1979[m]> oh is that the key? Does this run on arm and most don't?
[2021-12-01T05:54:02Z] <natris1979[m]> wayland window managers I mean
[2021-12-01T06:03:32Z] <natris1979[m]> progress. Making progress
[2021-12-01T06:03:38Z] <natris1979[m]> I'm finding `strace` is my friend 
[2021-12-01T06:04:06Z] <hyrc> fatrace is another friend.  
[2021-12-01T06:04:36Z] <hyrc> gpu drivers for linux in arm space were few and far between
[2021-12-01T06:04:41Z] <hyrc> particularly open source ones
[2021-12-01T06:05:01Z] <hyrc> a few projects made progress, but panfrost really rocked arm-world
[2021-12-01T06:05:04Z] <natris1979[m]> ah yes, seems like a poor state even now
[2021-12-01T06:05:39Z] <hyrc> so for gpus between mali400 (i think?) and bifrost, we now have both opengl and opengl-es
[2021-12-01T06:05:42Z] <hyrc> and some vulkan
[2021-12-01T06:06:15Z] <hyrc> which pretty much transformed my toy amlogic sbc into my daily desktop
[2021-12-01T06:07:51Z] <hyrc> there's limitations of course.  but going from useless to being able to see doom3 run at decent fps was just a treat for me
[2021-12-01T06:07:56Z] <hyrc> but i'm an old graphics nerd
[2021-12-01T06:08:20Z] <natris1979[m]> that's pretty awesome actually
[2021-12-01T06:09:26Z] <hyrc> yeah and it was basically just some young devs with a fanatical devotion to the cause
[2021-12-01T06:09:45Z] <hyrc> 'unreasonable people change the world'
[2021-12-01T06:10:13Z] <hyrc> the good kind of crazy :)
[2021-12-01T06:13:13Z] <natris1979[m]> hehe yes
[2021-12-01T06:16:53Z] <natris1979[m]> hrmm. For some reason I can't get /dev/shm to mount into the chroot properly
[2021-12-01T06:18:18Z] <hyrc> mount -o bind /dev/shm /thingy/dev/shm works for me
[2021-12-01T06:18:24Z] <testuser[m]> Cuz u not doing recursive bind
[2021-12-01T06:18:34Z] <testuser[m]> Just do it manually
[2021-12-01T06:19:37Z] <natris1979[m]> from arch `ls /dev/shm` returns nothing (and wayland apps work), and from the kiss chroot returns ls: /dev/shm: No such file or directory
[2021-12-01T06:19:41Z] <natris1979[m]> manually how?
[2021-12-01T06:20:47Z] <hyrc> now i learned what recursive bind does yay.  
[2021-12-01T06:21:10Z] <hyrc> not seen an instance where i'd need that though. i think.
[2021-12-01T06:21:42Z] <natris1979[m]> Windows -> WSL -> Arch -> Kiss chroot might be it :D
[2021-12-01T06:21:52Z] <natris1979[m]> oh wait, you said when you'd need it :D
[2021-12-01T06:24:57Z] <natris1979[m]> hmmm. on arch if I do `df -h1, I have `/run/shm` instead of `/dev/shm` I wonder if I need to mount kiss's `/dev/shm` to that
[2021-12-01T06:25:41Z] <natris1979[m]> oof, messed up the tickmarks there 
[2021-12-01T06:30:09Z] <hyrc> on my system /run/shm is symlinked to /dev/shm
[2021-12-01T06:30:29Z] <hyrc> it's used for some kind of interprocess communication
[2021-12-01T06:30:29Z] <natris1979[m]> yup, here too. mounting directly didn't help
[2021-12-01T06:30:46Z] * hyrc waves hands in air vaguely
[2021-12-01T06:31:03Z] <natris1979[m]> that's currently my level of understanding too :)
[2021-12-01T06:45:09Z] <natris1979[m]> Yes!
[2021-12-01T06:45:12Z] <natris1979[m]> I did it!
[2021-12-01T06:45:38Z] <natris1979[m]> just had to create /mnt/kiss/dev/shm with the right permissions and it worked!
[2021-12-01T06:48:34Z] <natris1979[m]> needed to do `mkdir /mnt/kiss/dev/shm` then `chmod +t /mnt/kiss/dev/shm` and `chmod 777 /mnt/kiss/dev/shm`.  Mounted it same a the other stuff cribbed from kiss-chroot with ` mmount "$1/dev/shm" -o bind /dev/shm`
[2021-12-01T06:50:11Z] <natris1979[m]> for anyone else in IRC logs trying to do this, I also had to similarly mount /mnt/wslg into the chroot (and /mnt/wsl, but I'm unsure if that was needed)
[2021-12-01T06:52:06Z] <natris1979[m]> Then I had to set the folllowing ENV variables `DISPLAY=:0`, `XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/mnt/wslg/runtime-dir` and `export WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0`
[2021-12-01T06:53:33Z] <natris1979[m]> thanks hyrc and testuser for letting me bounce ideas of you. Now I need to try to sleep when I super excited
[2021-12-01T06:53:43Z] <natris1979[m]> *off of you
[2021-12-01T06:54:10Z] <natris1979[m]> *I'm
[2021-12-01T06:54:20Z] <testuser[m]> Np
[2021-12-01T06:54:22Z] <hyrc> glad you made progress
[2021-12-01T06:54:53Z] <natris1979[m]> "progress" he says. I solved it :D :p
[2021-12-01T06:55:50Z] <natris1979[m]> I'm just glad I'll be able to use a half way decent window manager outside of a (traditional) vm or dual booting 
[2021-12-01T08:14:54Z] <testuser[m]> > [400/49394]
[2021-12-01T08:14:59Z] <testuser[m]> adding 5000 new targets every release
[2021-12-01T08:15:00Z] <testuser[m]> bruh
[2021-12-01T08:15:32Z] <testuser[m]> 100k by 2023
[2021-12-01T08:30:51Z] <phoebos> oof
[2021-12-01T08:31:07Z] <phoebos> ah you're right acheam i didn't need the lambda wrapper
[2021-12-01T08:31:37Z] <phoebos> initially i had too many parentheses so the function was trying to execute the result of the calculation as a function
[2021-12-01T08:32:26Z] <testuser[m]> bruh
[2021-12-01T09:48:52Z] <phoebos> maybe i'll try to do some of the advent of code problems in scheme
[2021-12-01T09:49:28Z] <phoebos> that way by the end of december i should be almost able to write decent code
[2021-12-01T11:09:09Z] <testuser[m]> noocsharp: https://github.com/kiss-community/bin/commit/a3673a652d708b3bb79467cc5aad63d7f8a4dc55
[2021-12-01T11:57:27Z] <bibliocar> sometimes things just confuse me.
[2021-12-01T11:57:57Z] <testuser[m]> wat
[2021-12-01T11:58:50Z] <bibliocar> I was looking at the musl sin function. Oh, nothing kiss related, really. I just thought I'd share my confusion at "return x - x;" in the musl sinf function.
[2021-12-01T11:59:18Z] <bibliocar> I assume it's some weird floating point magic to return the correct error value or something.
[2021-12-01T12:01:08Z] <testuser[m]> > sin(Inf or NaN) is NaN
[2021-12-01T12:01:19Z] <testuser[m]> if u gonna return nan then why not just return x which is already a nan
[2021-12-01T12:01:22Z] <testuser[m]> ask in #musl irc
[2021-12-01T12:01:31Z] <testuser[m]> this is taken from freebsd anyways
[2021-12-01T12:01:43Z] <testuser[m]> > trig(+-INF)  is NaN, with signals;
[2021-12-01T12:01:44Z] <testuser[m]> maybe this
[2021-12-01T12:01:48Z] <testuser[m]> idk what a "signal" is here
[2021-12-01T12:02:02Z] <bibliocar> I'm not smart enough to ask in #musl
[2021-12-01T12:02:17Z] <bibliocar> maybe not smart enough to ask here either... I dunno.
[2021-12-01T12:02:30Z] <bibliocar> It wasn't important
[2021-12-01T12:03:09Z] <bibliocar> I was just observing that even though C is pretty basic, there's still some nuances that still confuse me.
[2021-12-01T13:39:23Z] <phoebos> https://tmp.bvnf.space/aoc1.tar.gz
[2021-12-01T13:39:55Z] <phoebos> the scheme version has the fewest lines but took about 10 times as long as the others
[2021-12-01T13:40:03Z] <phoebos> its a completely different algorithm
[2021-12-01T13:41:00Z] <testuser[m]> > getline
[2021-12-01T13:41:01Z] <testuser[m]> weak
[2021-12-01T13:41:05Z] <testuser[m]> just convert in-place
[2021-12-01T13:42:11Z] <testuser[m]> n = (n * 10) + ascii
[2021-12-01T13:50:05Z] <phoebos> you mean instead of atoi?
[2021-12-01T13:59:27Z] <testuser[m]> yeah
[2021-12-01T13:59:30Z] <testuser[m]> u dont need temporary buf
[2021-12-01T14:26:29Z] <phoebos> not sure i understand
[2021-12-01T14:27:28Z] <testuser[m]> while ((c = getchar()) != EOF) num = (num * 10) + (c - '0')
[2021-12-01T14:27:30Z] <testuser[m]> Like this
[2021-12-01T14:27:34Z] <testuser[m]> And then check on newline
[2021-12-01T14:28:22Z] <phoebos> oh yeah
[2021-12-01T14:28:38Z] <phoebos> getline is a bit more clear
[2021-12-01T14:30:06Z] <noocsharp> thank you testuser[m] 
[2021-12-01T14:30:19Z] <testuser[m]> np
[2021-12-01T15:01:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> hey everyone
[2021-12-01T15:03:09Z] <omanom> hello
[2021-12-01T15:32:51Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-12-01T20:29:33Z] <sereg> hello 
[2021-12-01T20:35:44Z] <acheam> phoebos: i hate when that happens lmao
[2021-12-01T20:35:55Z] <acheam> just something to get used to/look out for with lisp ig
[2021-12-01T20:38:34Z] * midfavila-laptop waves
[2021-12-01T20:39:15Z] * noocsharp beach
[2021-12-01T20:40:29Z] * acheam sand
[2021-12-01T20:41:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> why do I bother visiting this channel - w-
[2021-12-01T20:41:51Z] <hyrc> avoiding the rotting fish carcass
[2021-12-01T20:42:35Z] <hyrc> just an association i have with walks on the beach
[2021-12-01T21:51:08Z] <sereg> midfavila-laptop: heyo there
[2021-12-01T21:53:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> hello
[2021-12-01T22:53:25Z] <natris1979[m]> midfavila-laptop: you come around to gather support for your eval lisp effort?
[2021-12-01T23:28:23Z] <kqz> anyone have a posix shell wg-quick implementation?
[2021-12-01T23:35:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> natris1979[m] lmao no
[2021-12-01T23:35:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> i don't have even part of the necessary skills to make a modern lispm
[2021-12-01T23:36:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> i just come here to talk about math and scream about how awful wayland and GTK3/4/Qt are
[2021-12-01T23:36:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> sometimes I contribute useful information but that's pretty rare
[2021-12-01T23:36:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> just ask acheam
[2021-12-01T23:37:19Z] <natris1979[m]> oh, you'd be a fan a discussion I had over on #qutebrowser:libera.chat today. A guy is having segfaults running it, and they're deep in the QTWebEngine rendering code. Fun times
[2021-12-01T23:39:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's disgusting on so many levels
[2021-12-01T23:39:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> webkit makes me want to throttle someone
[2021-12-01T23:40:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> or is webengine based on blink now?
[2021-12-01T23:40:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> if so, even worse
[2021-12-01T23:43:14Z] <acheam> webengine has always been blink
[2021-12-01T23:43:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> has it? gross
[2021-12-01T23:43:31Z] <acheam> there is qtwebkit and qtwebengine
[2021-12-01T23:43:56Z] <acheam> qutebrowser supports both but is phasing out support for qtwebkit as it uses a really old webkit version
[2021-12-01T23:44:03Z] <acheam> kissmoon when?
[2021-12-01T23:44:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> when I get around to learning how to write a web engine