💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-10-06.txt captured on 2023-01-29 at 03:53:03.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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[2021-10-06T00:50:58Z] <phoebos> DILYN: https://tmp.bvnf.space/0001-links-bump-to-2.25.patch
[2021-10-06T03:18:59Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-10-06T03:21:18Z] <dilyn> o/
[2021-10-06T03:27:02Z] <testuser[m]> dilyn: Can i put my bins on the bin repo
[2021-10-06T03:27:45Z] <dilyn> absolutely!
[2021-10-06T03:27:52Z] <dilyn> you can replace the ones in there
[2021-10-06T03:27:56Z] <dilyn> as well*
[2021-10-06T03:28:48Z] <testuser[m]> Can i just make 1 release with 3-4 tarballs or do individually ?
[2021-10-06T03:29:55Z] <dilyn> one release is probably sufficient -- i did individual releases because I'm neurotic but it's taxing doing it that way
[2021-10-06T03:33:31Z] <noocsharp> which binaries? chromium?
[2021-10-06T03:42:03Z] <dilyn> presumably
[2021-10-06T03:46:14Z] <dilyn> in other news, i got snapd to properly fetch snaps from the store!
[2021-10-06T03:46:48Z] <dilyn> bad news, snapd actually generates the systemd mount unit files on the fly, so i have to modify snapd a bit to either make it a real file or change how it interacts with that file
[2021-10-06T03:52:03Z] <testuser[m]> done
[2021-10-06T03:52:26Z] <dilyn> mmm them cflags tho
[2021-10-06T03:52:29Z] <dilyn> spicy
[2021-10-06T03:54:23Z] <testuser[m]> sekurity 100
[2021-10-06T05:42:28Z] <GalaxyNova> dilyn: Are you trying to get snapd to work on KISS?
[2021-10-06T05:42:42Z] <dilyn> mmhmm
[2021-10-06T05:43:23Z] <dilyn> snapd provides a very thin shim over systemd and most of the internals are basically just systemctl calls
[2021-10-06T05:43:29Z] <Guest5282> testuser[m]: Hi! I try to compile the matrix-client but I get an error:
[2021-10-06T05:43:34Z] <Guest5282> src/input.h:6:10: fatal error: 'termbox.h' file not found
[2021-10-06T05:43:35Z] <Guest5282> #include "termbox.h"
[2021-10-06T05:43:36Z] <Guest5282> Help me please
[2021-10-06T05:43:51Z] <GalaxyNova> oh lol
[2021-10-06T05:44:05Z] <dilyn> if I actually knew go I imagine I could replace a lot of the necessary functionality to get it to work, with the exception of the service management feature. which could probably also be replaced
[2021-10-06T05:45:36Z] <dilyn> theoretically you don't even need to use snapd; snaps are just a squashfs that get mounted to a place, and snap just sets up some environment variables/enables apparmor/adds seccomp profiles to restrict applications. you could probably redo the whole thing in sh tbh
[2021-10-06T05:45:41Z] <GalaxyNova> that's heresy dilyn O_O
[2021-10-06T05:45:52Z] <dilyn> hey i really like the idea of snaps lol
[2021-10-06T05:46:25Z] <dilyn> it solves apt's PPA problem and it's very secure (if the packagers and users do it right)
[2021-10-06T05:46:40Z] <GalaxyNova> meh
[2021-10-06T05:46:48Z] <GalaxyNova> I can't see how it's better than flatpaks
[2021-10-06T05:46:50Z] <dilyn> i just wish you could self-host a snap store without paying canonical $30k
[2021-10-06T05:47:06Z] <dilyn> because flatpack 1) isn't secure, and 2) suffers from apt's PPA problem
[2021-10-06T05:47:11Z] <dilyn> flatpacks are just a bad version of snaps
[2021-10-06T05:47:17Z] <GalaxyNova> what's the PPA problem you're talking about
[2021-10-06T05:47:55Z] <dilyn> it's similar to the problem we have with KISS where we have to use tools like kiss-find to discover other packages
[2021-10-06T05:48:21Z] <dilyn> package discovery shouldn't be hard, and PPAs/repositories make it hard
[2021-10-06T05:49:40Z] <GalaxyNova> well that's the nature of having an open source backend where its very easy to selfhost things
[2021-10-06T05:49:41Z] <dilyn> plus the overhead involved with pinging a repo on every update when it probably doesn't have any updates to offer. and it makes the hurdle for more naive users unecessarily burdensome ("why do I have to do all this work, why can't I just `apt install foo`")
[2021-10-06T05:49:51Z] <GalaxyNova> if people are able to easily self host things you are bound to get fragmentation
[2021-10-06T05:50:03Z] <dilyn> sure
[2021-10-06T05:50:28Z] <dilyn> but the point is that it's *easier*. it's why flatpack has flathub
[2021-10-06T06:01:27Z] <testuser[m]> @Guest5282:libera.chat: It doesn't work yet, no UI
[2021-10-06T06:01:39Z] <testuser[m]> But the third party libs are submodules so you need to do git submodule update
[2021-10-06T06:02:40Z] <testuser[m]> Either way it's not buildable rn
[2021-10-06T06:16:38Z] <Guest59> testuser[m]: Ok, thx
[2021-10-06T06:43:44Z] <GalaxyNova> acheam: Do you run dbus on OpenBSD or have you forked the ports tree
[2021-10-06T06:51:26Z] <GalaxyNova> I've spent 5 hours removing the dbus dependency from firefox only to realize that gtk depends on it :P
[2021-10-06T07:04:58Z] <illiliti> https://github.com/dcbaker/meson-plus-plus
[2021-10-06T07:06:59Z] <illiliti> build system depends on meson lol
[2021-10-06T07:07:52Z] <testuser[m]> > as a high level language it's easy to end up in a bootstrap loop, you need Python to build X which you need to build Python. Meson++ can avoid that be being written in a common low level language, and use conditional compilation to minimize dependencies.
[2021-10-06T07:07:55Z] <testuser[m]> lol
[2021-10-06T07:08:03Z] <testuser[m]> Doesn't it recreate the problem them
[2021-10-06T07:43:00Z] <phoebos> dilyn: https://tmp.bvnf.space/0001-links-bump-to-2.25.patch
[2021-10-06T07:44:03Z] <phoebos> did you say golang would be good for replacing a lot of necessary functionality in snapd?
[2021-10-06T07:44:26Z] <phoebos> > if I actually knew go
[2021-10-06T07:45:47Z] <phoebos> GalaxyNova: I think acheam just runs firefox with all the cruft it comes with on obsd
[2021-10-06T07:46:19Z] <phoebos> you'll have a much harder time pruning dependencies there than on kiss
[2021-10-06T12:38:43Z] <testuser[m]> Hmm the efi entries i make through efibootmgr seem to overwrite the previous entries instead of being appended (efibootmgr shows 2 entries but on reboot uefi shows just the latest one), any idea ?
[2021-10-06T14:07:51Z] <dilyn> snap{d} is written in golang already phoebos
[2021-10-06T14:11:50Z] <phoebos> ah
[2021-10-06T14:14:12Z] <testuser[m]> Wasn't snap considered a pozzed flatpak and not the other way around
[2021-10-06T14:36:59Z] <dilyn> people certainly have that I opinion
[2021-10-06T14:37:16Z] <dilyn> (insert charitable version of 'people are dumb' here)
[2021-10-06T14:37:39Z] <midfavila> just use appimage
[2021-10-06T14:37:53Z] <dilyn> HNG
[2021-10-06T14:37:58Z] <illiliti> appimage is trash
[2021-10-06T14:38:16Z] <midfavila> i mean, yes
[2021-10-06T14:38:21Z] <midfavila> i'm not going to say it's not trash
[2021-10-06T14:38:32Z] <midfavila> but at least it's not $BAD_THING
[2021-10-06T14:38:33Z] <illiliti> "Linux apps that run anywhere" is a fucking lie
[2021-10-06T14:39:01Z] <dilyn> but snaps are $GOOD_THING
[2021-10-06T14:39:09Z] <midfavila> snaps are a pain in the ass
[2021-10-06T14:39:15Z] <dilyn> ??
[2021-10-06T14:39:19Z] <dilyn> how so
[2021-10-06T14:39:46Z] <midfavila> "yeah let's just include every single dependency for every single program in its own little bundles then require all this extra infrastructure on top of existing stuff just to use said bundles"
[2021-10-06T14:39:57Z] <midfavila> at least appimage lets you extract them
[2021-10-06T14:40:07Z] <dilyn> so do snaps :v
[2021-10-06T14:40:32Z] <midfavila> if that's true then fair enough, I guess. /shrug
[2021-10-06T14:41:43Z] <dilyn> i agree that just bundling all the dependencies is a bit silly, but it doesn't inflate the sizes all that much
[2021-10-06T14:41:58Z] <midfavila> well, if it's just for a few things that are huge anyway, yeah
[2021-10-06T14:42:07Z] <dilyn> the chromium snap is smaller than my chromium build, for instance XD
[2021-10-06T14:42:07Z] <midfavila> something like a CAD suite or a browser or w/e could benefit from that
[2021-10-06T14:42:27Z] <midfavila> but for smaller programs it's just obscene
[2021-10-06T14:42:55Z] <midfavila> something something muh slip and slide
[2021-10-06T14:45:32Z] <dilyn> ultimately what I want to do is is turn KISS into what canonical did with ubuntu core xD
[2021-10-06T14:47:25Z] <testuser[m]> Has someone sanitized libwayland
[2021-10-06T14:47:42Z] <testuser[m]> The wayland-scanner tool itself seems to have a ton of leaks
[2021-10-06T14:51:52Z] <illiliti> "Package once and run everywhere" is simplified for "properly made AppImages will run on most mainstream desktop distributions".
[2021-10-06T14:52:01Z] <illiliti> disgusting
[2021-10-06T14:55:01Z] <testuser[m]> they further extended that, something like common libs like libGL are assumed to be present
[2021-10-06T14:55:09Z] <testuser[m]> dunno which comment it was
[2021-10-06T15:05:06Z] <noocsharp> imagine a world where chromium could be statically linked
[2021-10-06T15:07:37Z] <noocsharp> i wonder if there's a statically linkable implementation of the opengl api (even though opengl is supposed to only be dynamically linkable)
[2021-10-06T15:12:12Z] <rfaa> Hey! Anyone here running kiss with s6? Including s6-rc and mdevd?
[2021-10-06T15:14:37Z] <dilyn> dylan is/was
[2021-10-06T15:14:38Z] <dilyn> i was
[2021-10-06T15:14:43Z] <dilyn> someone else in here was...
[2021-10-06T15:17:33Z] <rfaa> Any pointers on how to get it running? I got it booting by creating a default folder with an "up" file containing "/usr/lib/init/rc.boot" and a "type" file containing "oneshot", from this I generated a db in /etc/s6-rc/compiled but I'm not sure it's correctly setup
[2021-10-06T15:18:10Z] <rfaa> It's definitely not calling the /usr/lib/init/rc.shutdown from anywhere, not sure how to go about fixing that
[2021-10-06T15:19:38Z] <dilyn> you could look at what dylan was trying to do if that interests you https://kisslinux.org/post/20210829a
[2021-10-06T15:19:50Z] <dilyn> i didn't bother using s6-rc with baseinit, i just adopted the whole s6 stack
[2021-10-06T15:21:03Z] <dilyn> but to run rc.shutdown you probably just need a `down` file, no?
[2021-10-06T15:21:38Z] <rfaa> Thanks, I'll look into that! Yeah I tried that as well but got errors when shutting down
[2021-10-06T15:22:06Z] <rfaa> Can't remember exactly what... but think it was related to unmounted drives
[2021-10-06T15:31:52Z] <testuser[m]> noocsharp: https://github.com/pfalcon/foreign-dlopen
[2021-10-06T15:35:19Z] <testuser[m]> But you would still have nss to deal with
[2021-10-06T15:56:03Z] <testuser[m]> dilyn how hard would it be to put an `ar rcs libshit.a ./*.o` https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/blob/main/extra/nss/build
[2021-10-06T16:00:19Z] <noocsharp> testuser[m]: i mean a literal static implementation of the opengl api, like a libGL.a
[2021-10-06T16:00:24Z] <noocsharp> but foreign-dlopen looks interesting
[2021-10-06T16:04:46Z] <testuser[m]> noocsharp: Yeah I just provided the closest alternative :p
[2021-10-06T16:14:14Z] <dilyn> it wouldn't be hard, it just probably wouldn't work...
[2021-10-06T16:56:51Z] <testuser[m]> bruh i just realized nodejs takes about as much time to buiild as firefox itself
[2021-10-06T17:58:45Z] <dilyn> I mean nodejs is essentially a browser
[2021-10-06T18:02:21Z] <testuser[m]> A headless one
[2021-10-06T18:30:13Z] <GalaxyNova[m]> Maybe a browser is just nodejs
[2021-10-06T19:17:09Z] <cem> dilyn: 5 days in canonical and you're already pushing snaps smh my head
[2021-10-06T19:19:53Z] <dilyn> hey hey hey
[2021-10-06T19:19:56Z] <dilyn> it's been a month
[2021-10-06T19:19:58Z] <dilyn> :P
[2021-10-06T19:20:05Z] <cem> :^)
[2021-10-06T23:35:30Z] <acheam> o/