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💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-12-22.txt captured on 2022-07-17 at 03:05:29.
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[2021-12-22T00:59:27Z] <phoebos> ugh why doesn't posix specify TIOCGWINSZ for ioctl(3) :(
[2021-12-22T01:01:45Z] <phoebos> sure finding the terminal size is kinda implementation specific but the whole point of posix is to provide a standardized interface to the implementations
[2021-12-22T01:03:11Z] <phoebos> but then it requires stuff like ls to adapt their output "to the nature of the output device", "based on the implementation's knowledge of the output device"
[2021-12-22T01:03:56Z] <phoebos> just gonna have to hope people set $COLUMNS
[2021-12-22T01:04:02Z] <noocsharp> the obvious solution is to not use terminals
[2021-12-22T01:04:03Z] <phoebos> otherwise they're getting 80
[2021-12-22T01:04:20Z] <phoebos> oh yeah, that must be what they're getting at
[2021-12-22T01:05:04Z] <phoebos> MADNESS
[2021-12-22T01:15:07Z] <bibliocar> Maybe someone could make a standard other than posix?
[2021-12-22T01:16:11Z] <bibliocar> queue xkcd standards comic
[2021-12-22T01:18:51Z] <bibliocar> specify UT1 over UTC and eliminate leap seconds once and for all.
[2021-12-22T01:23:02Z] <bibliocar> Also, i just learned there are NTP servers for UT1, which means at least I'm happy.
[2021-12-22T01:27:47Z] <acheam> just pull a GNU and ignore POSIX
[2021-12-22T01:41:30Z] <bibliocar> Ignoring at least parts of it seems pretty common nowadays.
[2021-12-22T01:42:29Z] <illiliti> phoebos: https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1151
[2021-12-22T01:43:03Z] <bibliocar> I think it's okay as long as it's well documented, especially when you have lots of little simple components like kiss.
[2021-12-22T01:44:49Z] <bibliocar> oh wow
[2021-12-22T01:46:06Z] <acheam> even if its in a newer standard of POSIX, whats even the point
[2021-12-22T01:46:53Z] <acheam> most systems I've seen only try to conform to 2001 or 2008
[2021-12-22T01:49:45Z] <illiliti> just don't care about ancient systems. drop them and move on
[2021-12-22T01:50:01Z] <phoebos> illiliti: :D yay
[2021-12-22T01:50:06Z] <phoebos> thanks
[2021-12-22T01:50:38Z] <illiliti> don't forget to adhere to POSIX as much as possible
[2021-12-22T01:51:01Z] <cem> yeah, I totally agree
[2021-12-22T01:51:23Z] <phoebos> for tc[gs]etwinsize, just gotta wait 20 years for people to realise POSIX updated :p
[2021-12-22T01:51:24Z] <cem> we should try best to be portable, but not with 40 year old systems
[2021-12-22T01:52:07Z] <phoebos> the only standard i care about is posix. if your system doesn't work with posix, buy something newer
[2021-12-22T01:55:21Z] <cem> the only needed addition to posix is shell local variables :^)
[2021-12-22T01:55:54Z] <cem> and like it will never happen, but I still don't know of a shell without local variables
[2021-12-22T01:56:47Z] <illiliti> yash in posix mode doesn't support local
[2021-12-22T01:56:52Z] <cem> let me fix that statement and say bourne-like shells without local variables currently used
[2021-12-22T01:56:54Z] <phoebos> i mean, you can always make more shells: myvar=1; (myvar=2; foo $myvar;) bar $myvar
[2021-12-22T01:57:11Z] <cem> illiliti: I thought that it did
[2021-12-22T01:58:10Z] <cem> I just tried, it works on yash posix mode
[2021-12-22T01:58:39Z] <illiliti> hmm, looks like author added support for it
[2021-12-22T01:58:50Z] <illiliti> the last time i tried it didn't
[2021-12-22T01:58:51Z] <cem> phoebos: but creating subshells is worse, and not worth it
[2021-12-22T01:59:01Z] <cem> ah I see
[2021-12-22T01:59:50Z] <cem> most shells do add the support for it, because it's one of the most common mistakes
[2021-12-22T02:00:20Z] <phoebos> cem: but if you really want "local" variables, subshells provide the same functionality. kinda. if you use a few `export`s for globals
[2021-12-22T02:00:21Z] <cem> even then, I'd argue that locals are very useful, even if not 100% necessary
[2021-12-22T02:01:11Z] <illiliti> globals by default is the most annoying thing in shell
[2021-12-22T02:01:56Z] <phoebos> but shell was never meant for real programming
[2021-12-22T02:01:59Z] <phoebos> just plumbing
[2021-12-22T02:02:46Z] <cem> yeah, I get that you can have the same functionality with subshell, but at the end of the day, a subshell is a spawned subprocess
[2021-12-22T02:02:59Z] <cem> a local variable is cheap
[2021-12-22T02:03:07Z] <cem> subprocesses are not
[2021-12-22T02:03:30Z] <phoebos> ofc
[2021-12-22T02:03:55Z] <phoebos> i wouldn't genuinely use subshells just to get local variables
[2021-12-22T02:23:52Z] <illiliti> cem: yash even accepts typeset in posix mode. something is wrong...
[2021-12-22T02:25:52Z] <trunc88> the most
[2021-12-22T02:25:55Z] <trunc88> POSIX-compliant shell in the world!
[2021-12-22T02:26:01Z] <trunc88> :^)
[2021-12-22T02:26:13Z] <illiliti> it was much stricter before
[2021-12-22T03:02:18Z] <travankor> you start yash with yash -o posixly-correct?
[2021-12-22T03:03:54Z] <illiliti_> yep
[2021-12-22T03:03:57Z] <illiliti_> yash -o posixlycorrect
[2021-12-22T03:04:19Z] <illiliti_> i also tried to run it as sh
[2021-12-22T03:24:27Z] <phoebos> spot the patch that's been waiting to be pushed since october: https://git.bvnf.space/bore/
[2021-12-22T03:26:51Z] <phoebos> also does anyone know if the struct dirent * returned by readdir(3) should ever be free(3)'d?
[2021-12-22T03:32:09Z] <noocsharp> when in doubt, look at the musl source
[2021-12-22T03:32:33Z] <phoebos> oh i guess you're not supposed to do anything with the pointer until you're finished reading the dir, and then the pointer will be NULL
[2021-12-22T03:32:34Z] <phoebos> :p
[2021-12-22T03:53:14Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-12-22T04:18:40Z] <noocsharp> o/
[2021-12-22T04:59:58Z] <Featyre> The only issue with some POSIX shells I have seen is pressing left and right to make changes but all I got is ^[[A or something
[2021-12-22T05:00:25Z] <Featyre> Surprisingly, KISS' POSIX shell doesn't
[2021-12-22T05:03:09Z] <testuser[m]> Cuz those shells don't parse escape sequences
[2021-12-22T07:01:32Z] <Featyre> Oh
[2021-12-22T07:24:58Z] <mmatongo> Hi
[2021-12-22T07:25:04Z] <testuser[m]> hi
[2021-12-22T07:25:12Z] <mmatongo> Been a min
[2021-12-22T07:25:24Z] <testuser[m]> many mins
[2021-12-22T07:25:46Z] <mmatongo> Unfortunately I use macOS now as my daily driver cause of work
[2021-12-22T08:44:01Z] <Featyre> Hi
[2021-12-22T11:35:23Z] <Featyre> Trying to install xorg is a chore
[2021-12-22T11:36:01Z] <Featyre> I'm stuck in this error 
[2021-12-22T11:36:05Z] <testuser[m]> show
[2021-12-22T11:36:11Z] <Featyre> Hold on let me show logs
[2021-12-22T11:45:39Z] <Featyre> So it stuck on building libeproxy
[2021-12-22T11:49:45Z] <Featyre> https://dpaste.com/EBHTJ3K2M.txt
[2021-12-22T11:50:38Z] <testuser[m]> have u modified the mesa build file
[2021-12-22T11:50:50Z] <Featyre> Nope
[2021-12-22T11:50:59Z] <testuser[m]> using libglvnd?
[2021-12-22T11:51:05Z] <Featyre> Yeah
[2021-12-22T11:51:15Z] <testuser[m]> why
[2021-12-22T11:51:33Z] <Featyre> libeproxy doesn't detect mesa
[2021-12-22T11:52:15Z] <testuser[m]> hmm u dont need libglvnd at all, remove libglvnd, rebuild default mesa and then show the log
[2021-12-22T11:52:20Z] <testuser[m]> does it have the same error ?
[2021-12-22T11:52:54Z] <testuser[m]> u might have installed mesa, then installed libglvnd and then removed mesa somehow
[2021-12-22T11:52:59Z] <testuser[m]> so the alternatives werent swapped
[2021-12-22T11:53:23Z] <testuser[m]> but mesa with libglvnd isnt possible unless u alter the build file
[2021-12-22T11:53:26Z] <testuser[m]> oh nvm it checks
[2021-12-22T11:53:46Z] <testuser[m]> /usr/include/EGL doesn't exist right?
[2021-12-22T11:54:38Z] <Featyre> Yep
[2021-12-22T11:55:09Z] <testuser[m]> show contents of /var/db/kiss/installed/libglvnd/build and /var/db/kiss/installed/mesa/build and /var/db/kiss/choices
[2021-12-22T11:55:52Z] <Featyre> Well I uninstalled libglvnd
[2021-12-22T11:56:14Z] <Featyre> Mesa is rebuilding
[2021-12-22T11:56:18Z] <testuser[m]> ok
[2021-12-22T11:56:19Z] <testuser[m]> nice
[2021-12-22T12:33:24Z] <testuser[m]> Done?
[2021-12-22T12:33:26Z] <testuser[m]> lol
[2021-12-22T13:03:50Z] <Featyre> I think it's fine now, don't know why it didn't detect Mesa the first time but whatever
[2021-12-22T13:04:00Z] <Featyre> Wait nvm
[2021-12-22T19:21:54Z] <akira01> hey guys
[2021-12-22T19:22:01Z] <akira01> im little confused
[2021-12-22T19:22:17Z] <akira01> whats the package that includes egl?
[2021-12-22T19:22:33Z] <akira01> mesa? Or other?
[2021-12-22T19:40:10Z] <noocsharp> yes