gemini - kennedy.gemi.dev

💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-07-09.txt captured on 2022-07-17 at 03:10:12.
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[2021-07-09T00:00:28Z] <micro_O_> honestly i'd hope that dylanaraps moves /community from the kiss/repo git repo and just maintains `core` and maybe `extra`
[2021-07-09T00:00:42Z] <micro_O_> dilyn ^^ re plans on kiss-community/repo
[2021-07-09T00:01:26Z] <acheam> dilyn: what's the first worst thing? gnu?
[2021-07-09T00:01:50Z] <micro_O_> at the very least, I appreciate having a general community repo that feels lower barrier and more communal, and makes little promises
[2021-07-09T00:02:05Z] <noocsharp> community was never in kiss/repo
[2021-07-09T00:02:16Z] <noocsharp> it's always been a separate repo
[2021-07-09T00:02:22Z] <micro_O_> sorry, i meant org
[2021-07-09T00:03:38Z] <noocsharp> ah, idk, i think it makes sense since the goal was just to get a complete system up
[2021-07-09T00:05:00Z] <micro_O_> dilyn: how do you feel about archiving kiss-community/repo, and just splitting the /xorg folder to its own repo kiss-community/xorg ?
[2021-07-09T00:05:04Z] <acheam> yeah kiss-community being separate would be nice
[2021-07-09T00:05:52Z] <micro_O_> i mainly think this way in case we need to fork/update kisslinux/repo in the future or just to reduce confusion
[2021-07-09T00:06:06Z] <micro_O_> either way, no need to figure it all out right away
[2021-07-09T00:06:12Z] <micro_O_> (in fact, probably impossible to)
[2021-07-09T00:10:55Z] <dilyn> these are many of my thoughts, hence the waiting :)  
[2021-07-09T00:11:00Z] <dilyn> acheam: yes :)  
[2021-07-09T00:11:41Z] <midfavila> noocsharp >assuming my gender in $YEAR
[2021-07-09T00:11:41Z] <midfavila> but anyway yeah I'm definitely staying on X
[2021-07-09T00:11:51Z] <midfavila> been planning to fork the repo soonish
[2021-07-09T00:15:39Z] <GalaxyNova> midfavila: why are you staying on X?
[2021-07-09T00:16:15Z] <midfavila> why would I switch? all of my programs use Xlib, Xaw, or GTK2
[2021-07-09T00:16:39Z] <midfavila> I would have to replace every single GUI program I use, save Pale Moon and EMACS, but I'd still have to use GTK3/4
[2021-07-09T00:17:07Z] <midfavila> not to mention that I don't like the idea of being forced to run a compositor on my laptop
[2021-07-09T00:20:39Z] <acheam> midfavila: palemoon supports Wayland?
[2021-07-09T00:20:51Z] <midfavila> It supports GTK3, so I would assume so.
[2021-07-09T00:20:56Z] <acheam> ah
[2021-07-09T00:36:57Z] <GalaxyNova> is the move to OpenSSL really necessary?
[2021-07-09T00:37:10Z] <midfavila> wait, *what*
[2021-07-09T00:37:24Z] <GalaxyNova> what?
[2021-07-09T00:37:32Z] <midfavila> is KISS moving to Open?
[2021-07-09T00:37:36Z] <GalaxyNova> yes
[2021-07-09T00:37:40Z] <GalaxyNova> Dylan confirmed it
[2021-07-09T00:37:40Z] <midfavila> Sources.
[2021-07-09T00:38:04Z] <GalaxyNova> midfavila: https://k1sslinux.org/irc#2.0
[2021-07-09T00:38:08Z] <GalaxyNova> whoops
[2021-07-09T00:38:10Z] <GalaxyNova> wrong link
[2021-07-09T00:38:21Z] <GalaxyNova> https://kisslinux.xyz/news/20210708a
[2021-07-09T00:38:26Z] <GalaxyNova> midfavila ^
[2021-07-09T00:38:53Z] <midfavila> yeah nah
[2021-07-09T00:39:01Z] <midfavila> i'm not cool with that. gonna fork the repos.
[2021-07-09T00:39:20Z] <GalaxyNova> lol
[2021-07-09T00:39:27Z] <GalaxyNova> honestly i might end up using your fork
[2021-07-09T00:39:31Z] <GalaxyNova> i dislike the change myself
[2021-07-09T00:41:16Z] <GalaxyNova> but it's necessary
[2021-07-09T00:41:31Z] <GalaxyNova> python 3.10 will drop support for libressl
[2021-07-09T00:41:40Z] <midfavila> i don't give a shit about python
[2021-07-09T00:42:04Z] <midfavila> i'll rewrite the python scripts for packages in lisp if I have to 
[2021-07-09T00:42:14Z] <kqz[m]> lol
[2021-07-09T00:42:22Z] <midfavila> and if that's not feasible, then it won't be included. simple as that. 
[2021-07-09T00:42:32Z] <GalaxyNova> good luck with that
[2021-07-09T00:42:38Z] <GalaxyNova> python is included everywhere
[2021-07-09T00:43:01Z] <midfavila> there's like, maybe five programs on my system that depend on python, and those only use it for buildtime.
[2021-07-09T00:43:40Z] <GalaxyNova> even if it's only needed at build time it still needs to link to openssl
[2021-07-09T00:43:54Z] <midfavila> yes, I know that. hence "rewrite in lisp"
[2021-07-09T00:43:59Z] <midfavila> or, alternatively, "drop it"
[2021-07-09T00:46:13Z] <dilyn> i'm almost 100% certain you can build python without openssl 
[2021-07-09T00:46:24Z] <dilyn> you just can't use their ssl modules et al, and a lot of features won't be available 
[2021-07-09T00:46:33Z] <dilyn> I have no idea to what extent any given package depends on those features
[2021-07-09T00:46:38Z] <GalaxyNova> hm
[2021-07-09T00:46:41Z] <dilyn> you wouldn't be able to build certbot, but that's about all I know 
[2021-07-09T00:46:57Z] <GalaxyNova> is that enough to justify completely ditching libressl?
[2021-07-09T00:47:16Z] <midfavila> if python requires those features to build programs, then that's kind of a pyrrhic victory 
[2021-07-09T00:47:20Z] <GalaxyNova> maybe including openssl and libressl both in the repositories it could help?
[2021-07-09T00:47:26Z] <midfavila> no point
[2021-07-09T00:47:29Z] <midfavila> can't use both at once
[2021-07-09T00:47:44Z] <GalaxyNova> if you want the features of python just replace openssl with libressl
[2021-07-09T00:47:50Z] <GalaxyNova> that would be perfect imo
[2021-07-09T00:48:01Z] <midfavila> if they're dropping support, then that's not going to be tenable in the future
[2021-07-09T00:48:12Z] <midfavila> it would be much easier to just... not use python.
[2021-07-09T00:48:16Z] <midfavila> at least for me.
[2021-07-09T00:48:17Z] <kqz[m]> swapping ssl implementations on the fly is not so simple, you will be doing a lot of rebuilds
[2021-07-09T00:48:30Z] <kqz[m]> and many packages already have shims shoved in for libressl compat
[2021-07-09T00:48:42Z] <kqz[m]> you'd have to have multiple versions of multiple packages
[2021-07-09T00:49:53Z] <kqz[m]> fwiw openssl is A LOT better than what it was before the libressl fork, my only gripe with it nowadays is the perl build time dep
[2021-07-09T00:50:01Z] <dilyn> everybody keeps saying using libressl requires too much work patching software but like...
[2021-07-09T00:50:21Z] <dilyn> there's two packages, one of them is basically a sed and the other is maintained by *me* 
[2021-07-09T00:50:31Z] <dilyn> show me the labor 
[2021-07-09T00:51:00Z] <kqz[m]> dilyn: anything that uses tls 1.3 will explode currently :)
[2021-07-09T00:51:02Z] <GalaxyNova> port python ssl to use libressl
[2021-07-09T00:51:16Z] <kqz[m]> not sure about official repos but it's bitten me a couple dozen times when packaging stuff at this point
[2021-07-09T00:51:21Z] <dilyn> aha
[2021-07-09T00:51:26Z] <dilyn> rip y'all then :v 
[2021-07-09T00:51:32Z] <dilyn> why use 1.3 when 1.2 do trick
[2021-07-09T00:51:53Z] <kqz[m]> because 1.3 is hip and new! 
[2021-07-09T00:52:03Z] <kqz[m]> but tbh no clue, usually i just patch out the tls 1.3 features 
[2021-07-09T00:52:12Z] <midfavila> same reason people use unity when the quake engine would suffice
[2021-07-09T00:52:13Z] <kqz[m]> cipher suites and yadda yadda, dont need em
[2021-07-09T00:52:54Z] <dilyn> #ifdef BITE_ME
[2021-07-09T00:54:16Z] <kqz[m]> ahaha pretty much, wish the openbsd guys had more resources to throw at libressl so the openssl compat api could keep up, seems their dev process is very very careful (and slow)
[2021-07-09T00:54:41Z] <GalaxyNova> it's like that in basically every OpenBSD project
[2021-07-09T00:54:47Z] <GalaxyNova> they take code quality very seriously
[2021-07-09T00:57:15Z] <acheam> hmm looks like I'm going to have to switch to uefi
[2021-07-09T00:57:23Z] <GalaxyNova> why's that
[2021-07-09T00:57:26Z] <acheam> because syslinux doesnt compile with musl
[2021-07-09T00:57:31Z] <acheam> s/musl/clang/g
[2021-07-09T00:57:59Z] <GalaxyNova> I've heard uefi is an unecessarily complex standard unfortunately
[2021-07-09T00:58:11Z] <kqz[m]> ? efistub is ez af
[2021-07-09T00:58:34Z] <kqz[m]> so much better than dealing with grub at least
[2021-07-09T01:02:23Z] <acheam> is there any issue I might run into switching?
[2021-07-09T01:02:41Z] <GalaxyNova> you'll have to reinstall grub
[2021-07-09T01:02:47Z] <acheam> I dont use grub
[2021-07-09T01:02:51Z] <acheam> but I meant more like
[2021-07-09T01:03:09Z] <acheam> are all the changes just in /boot and in linux/linux-headers
[2021-07-09T01:05:23Z] <kqz[m]> should just have to make sure kernel is configured right than create the efi boot entry with efibootmgr via efivarfs or an efi shell 
[2021-07-09T01:06:10Z] <acheam> cool
[2021-07-09T01:06:17Z] <GalaxyNova> I wish Dylan was online on IRC more
[2021-07-09T01:06:21Z] <GalaxyNova> ig he's really busy
[2021-07-09T01:08:25Z] <riteo> hiiiii!
[2021-07-09T01:08:39Z] <GalaxyNova> hi
[2021-07-09T01:09:43Z] <GalaxyNova> riteo: What do you think about the breaking changes
[2021-07-09T01:10:26Z] <riteo> oh I think I might've missed something
[2021-07-09T01:10:33Z] <riteo> I really should look at the logs more
[2021-07-09T01:10:37Z] <riteo> what happened?
[2021-07-09T01:10:54Z] <GalaxyNova> basically KISS is moving to OpenSSL and dropping support for Xorg
[2021-07-09T01:11:03Z] <riteo> oh I heard about that then lol
[2021-07-09T01:11:20Z] <riteo> regarding the xorg part that was inevitable and I actually kinda like it
[2021-07-09T01:11:42Z] <midfavila> the migration to wayland wasn't inevitable.
[2021-07-09T01:12:00Z] <midfavila> there's no reason to do so, as far as I'm concerned. but it's not my distro. so whatever.
[2021-07-09T01:12:13Z] <riteo> yeah, wayland isn't the most KISSy thing ever and not super unixy but xorg has done enough and its time for it to retire
[2021-07-09T01:12:32Z] <midfavila> hard disagree.
[2021-07-09T01:12:42Z] <riteo> well mid we're talking about the default repos, it's not like you can't use a xorg repo
[2021-07-09T01:12:48Z] <GalaxyNova> unless firefox drops support for X then I see no reason to switch the repos to wayland
[2021-07-09T01:13:33Z] <riteo> well it might as well do it not to far in the future considering lots of big lts distros are switching to it
[2021-07-09T01:13:35Z] <kqz[m]> well firefox will eventually be dropping support for X, so
[2021-07-09T01:13:51Z] <midfavila> who cares what mozilla does?
[2021-07-09T01:13:56Z] <midfavila> they're controlled opposition.
[2021-07-09T01:14:13Z] <riteo> mid I think you're forgetting the point of the main repo
[2021-07-09T01:14:22Z] <midfavila> not really.
[2021-07-09T01:14:35Z] <riteo> all it's meant to do is to have the minimum to get a working system and a browser
[2021-07-09T01:14:40Z] <midfavila> again, I just disagree with the changes. I'll fork the repos and maintain them myself.
[2021-07-09T01:14:46Z] <riteo> that's fine
[2021-07-09T01:15:10Z] <GalaxyNova> riteo: Such as?
[2021-07-09T01:15:18Z] <kqz[m]> luckily there will be no major xorg updates anytime soon so maintenance burden won't be high ;p
[2021-07-09T01:15:31Z] <GalaxyNova> Ubuntu still has Xorg, Mint still has Xorg, OpenSuse still has Xorg
[2021-07-09T01:16:31Z] <riteo> I didn't say they have it now though
[2021-07-09T01:17:15Z] <riteo> they're going to switch to it not too late as mainstream DEs become more polished AFAIK
[2021-07-09T01:17:31Z] <riteo> also I'm not the only one saying this: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/270#issuecomment-876232160
[2021-07-09T01:18:41Z] <dilyn> acheam: if you're looking to just use efibootmgr to directly utilize efistub, just make sure efistub is enabled in your kernel config 
[2021-07-09T01:18:44Z] <dilyn> it's about as easy as https://k1sslinux.org/wiki/boot/efistub
[2021-07-09T01:18:45Z] <GalaxyNova> Personally I'll stick to Xorg for as long as I can
[2021-07-09T01:18:52Z] <riteo> again, that's fine
[2021-07-09T01:18:53Z] <dilyn> fun fact: grub just uses efistub anyways :)  
[2021-07-09T01:19:12Z] <riteo> just because the official repos are switching that doesn't mean you'll have to change anything other than the repo from which you get the packages
[2021-07-09T01:19:46Z] <riteo> also I'm pretty sure mid can live on X11 basically forever considering they use retro software and don't depend (IIRC) on fancy browsers
[2021-07-09T01:20:11Z] <GalaxyNova> they use palemoon right?
[2021-07-09T01:20:49Z] <riteo> IIRC they use a text browser on their laptop 
[2021-07-09T01:21:00Z] <riteo> regarding their main machine though I don't know
[2021-07-09T01:22:03Z] <riteo> well, regarding openssl I'm a bit more against it
[2021-07-09T01:22:39Z] <midfavila> pale moon and links
[2021-07-09T01:22:43Z] <riteo> epic
[2021-07-09T01:22:46Z] <midfavila> it's not really "retro", it's just simple.
[2021-07-09T01:23:19Z] <riteo> wasn't that file manager you were talking about though
[2021-07-09T01:23:47Z] <midfavila> what, xfm? I just wanted to see if I could get it working
[2021-07-09T01:23:50Z] <midfavila> I don't actually use it.
[2021-07-09T01:24:08Z] <riteo> oh I see
[2021-07-09T01:25:21Z] <riteo> also, why does certain software depend on openssl explicitly? Isn't libreSSL a fork? What changed?
[2021-07-09T01:25:42Z] <midfavila> their APIs slowly diverge as a result of being developed seperately
[2021-07-09T01:25:46Z] <midfavila> extra work has to be done to maintain that
[2021-07-09T01:25:56Z] <midfavila> some people think it's not worth it
[2021-07-09T01:25:58Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-07-09T01:28:22Z] <riteo> mhhh, reading a bit it looks like openssl is actually getting better than libressl
[2021-07-09T01:30:15Z] <riteo> dumb question, isn't there an ABI compatible alternative to openssl with less feature but smaller codebase?
[2021-07-09T01:30:34Z] <riteo> I'm reading about a certain bearssl, has it been considered or is it incompatible?
[2021-07-09T01:32:24Z] <dilyn> everyone keeps asking the same questions lmfao 
[2021-07-09T01:32:31Z] <riteo> oh sorry
[2021-07-09T01:32:35Z] <dilyn> bearssl is to libressl as libressl is to openssl
[2021-07-09T01:32:36Z] <kqz[m]> :D
[2021-07-09T01:32:36Z] <riteo> better if I read the logs then
[2021-07-09T01:32:51Z] <dilyn> i mean it's a reasonable question 
[2021-07-09T01:33:02Z] <dilyn> it just has been asked a lot for the last like, week lmfao 
[2021-07-09T01:33:05Z] <dilyn> it's funny
[2021-07-09T01:33:39Z] <riteo> well I think that's understandable, SSL libraries don't look very discussed to me
[2021-07-09T01:34:11Z] <acheam> dilyn: thanks
[2021-07-09T01:34:30Z] <dilyn> yah! 
[2021-07-09T01:34:31Z] <acheam> so I need to do this in a chroot from a live iso then?
[2021-07-09T01:34:49Z] <dilyn> you can do it on your livesystem, assuming you have efivarfs enabled in your kernel 
[2021-07-09T01:35:00Z] <dilyn> otherwise, a live CD is... i think basically the only way 
[2021-07-09T01:35:16Z] <acheam> oh, so even if i'm booted with BIOS, but as long as the kernel has the config?
[2021-07-09T01:35:20Z] <acheam> cool then I think i'm all set
[2021-07-09T01:35:20Z] <riteo> GalaxyNova: well to wrap it up I think I'm relatively ok with these changes and in general I'm favourable with them, although the SSL lib thing looks kinda like a big mess.
[2021-07-09T01:35:23Z] <acheam> see you on the other side
[2021-07-09T01:35:28Z] <dilyn> wait!
[2021-07-09T01:35:30Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-07-09T01:35:44Z] <dilyn> ls /sys/firmware/efi/efivars ? 
[2021-07-09T01:35:59Z] <dilyn> if efibootmgr didn't give you any errors when you made the entry you're good tho 
[2021-07-09T01:36:00Z] <acheam> not present
[2021-07-09T01:36:05Z] <acheam> ehr
[2021-07-09T01:36:18Z] <acheam> I couldn't run efibootmgr because I wasn't booted in with efi
[2021-07-09T01:36:19Z] <dilyn> iirc you have to be booted from UEFI for efivarfs to be mountable 
[2021-07-09T01:36:30Z] <acheam> but I can't boot with efi until I setup efibootmgr
[2021-07-09T01:36:31Z] <dilyn> lmao then yeah you'll have to do this from a live usb
[2021-07-09T01:36:32Z] <acheam> so....
[2021-07-09T01:36:34Z] <acheam> :(
[2021-07-09T01:36:46Z] <dilyn> if your usb iso supports efi booting then you're gucci gang 
[2021-07-09T01:36:54Z] <acheam> ye
[2021-07-09T01:37:11Z] <dilyn> just download an archiso, cat archiso.iso > /dev/sdXY, reboot. should do it; kiss-chroot mounts efivarfs automagically 4 u 
[2021-07-09T01:37:54Z] <acheam> ye
[2021-07-09T01:38:04Z] <acheam> wait is my partition layout okay?
[2021-07-09T01:38:20Z] <acheam> MBR, 2 partitions, / and /boot, both ext4
[2021-07-09T01:39:28Z] <kqz[m]> mbr, oof, you'll need to be on gpt
[2021-07-09T01:40:22Z] <acheam> and is ext4 okay or does it need to be vfat?
[2021-07-09T01:41:42Z] <acheam> looks like it needs to be fat...
[2021-07-09T01:41:47Z] <acheam> this is getting complex
[2021-07-09T01:42:20Z] <acheam> I think i'll stick with bios for now...
[2021-07-09T01:42:23Z] <kqz[m]> yeah, also note that relabeling a drive to gpt will wipe everything
[2021-07-09T01:42:34Z] <acheam> isn't there a way of converting it?
[2021-07-09T01:42:42Z] <kqz[m]> nope :(
[2021-07-09T01:43:07Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-07-09T01:43:55Z] <dilyn> if you have a second disk it's pretty trivial 
[2021-07-09T01:44:26Z] <acheam> looks like its possible
[2021-07-09T01:44:26Z] <acheam> https://serverfault.com/questions/963178/how-do-i-convert-my-linux-disk-from-mbr-to-gpt-with-uefi
[2021-07-09T01:44:28Z] <GalaxyNova> give systemrescuecd a try
[2021-07-09T01:44:40Z] <GalaxyNova> it's a great arch iso tuned for live cd usage
[2021-07-09T01:44:52Z] <acheam> I'm pivoting my question: any bootloader reccomendations
[2021-07-09T01:44:53Z] <dilyn> but your disk has to be GPT, with a /boot parition formatted mkfs.fat -F32, ROOTFS can be basically anything 
[2021-07-09T01:45:05Z] <dilyn> it's almost like you didn't read my article, acheam. I'm offended :(  https://k1sslinux.org/wiki/storage/disks 
[2021-07-09T01:45:32Z] <acheam> sorry, I saw dilyn corner at the top, and immediately clicked away
[2021-07-09T01:45:42Z] <dilyn> f
[2021-07-09T01:45:50Z] <dilyn> how will i ever recover 
[2021-07-09T01:45:54Z] <acheam> you wont
[2021-07-09T01:45:58Z] <dilyn> :(  
[2021-07-09T01:46:07Z] <kqz[m]> acheam: that'll convert it alright, but you will still lose everything :D
[2021-07-09T01:46:17Z] <kqz[m]> only bootloader i've been able to compile with clang has been grub
[2021-07-09T01:46:21Z] <acheam> harumph
[2021-07-09T01:46:24Z] <kqz[m]> lilo and sys/extlinux do not into 
[2021-07-09T01:46:46Z] <konimex[m]> alright, finally I have sway running, now what...
[2021-07-09T01:47:04Z] <acheam> get swaying
[2021-07-09T01:47:07Z] <konimex[m]> not ideal, but serviceable definitely
[2021-07-09T01:48:06Z] <konimex[m]> and now onto the openssl migration, should be way easier
[2021-07-09T01:48:39Z] <acheam> I might give this a shot: https://github.com/aejsmith/kboot
[2021-07-09T01:49:04Z] <riteo> oh it looks very cool
[2021-07-09T01:49:09Z] <riteo> I like the icon selection menu
[2021-07-09T01:49:26Z] <acheam> I don't lol, I don't even use a menu with syslinux
[2021-07-09T01:49:30Z] <acheam> just boots straight into my kernel
[2021-07-09T01:49:40Z] <riteo> well that's what I did with my kisslinux usb too
[2021-07-09T01:49:47Z] <riteo> it's looks cool though
[2021-07-09T01:49:50Z] <kqz[m]> yeah that looks neat, will give that a try on a vps tomorrow
[2021-07-09T01:50:05Z] <riteo> s/it's/it/
[2021-07-09T01:50:22Z] <acheam> okay since there are no good options besides potentially kboot
[2021-07-09T01:50:27Z] <acheam> time to patch syslinux
[2021-07-09T01:50:33Z] <dilyn> oh i like this 
[2021-07-09T01:50:37Z] <riteo> also I found something that mid might like
[2021-07-09T01:50:48Z] <riteo> apparently one of the contributors of this bootloader made this: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano
[2021-07-09T01:51:04Z] <acheam> hm nice
[2021-07-09T01:51:27Z] <dilyn> mid is finally free from KISS tyranny
[2021-07-09T01:51:36Z] <riteo> small random question: do mentions on irc require the ":" after the username?
[2021-07-09T01:51:44Z] <kqz[m]> can't remember what the last error i ran into before giving up was but i started a syslinux package here https://git.sr.ht/~kqz/repo/tree/master/item/server/syslinux
[2021-07-09T01:51:55Z] <riteo> dilyn: red hat has lost
[2021-07-09T01:52:00Z] <konimex[m]> riteo: nope
[2021-07-09T01:52:15Z] <riteo> cool
[2021-07-09T01:52:17Z] <konimex[m]> at least irssi here doesn't
[2021-07-09T01:52:38Z] <riteo> weird, I would've swore that it didn't work there
[2021-07-09T01:52:46Z] <riteo> someone mention me without the ":"
[2021-07-09T01:52:51Z] <kqz[m]> riteo
[2021-07-09T01:52:54Z] <konimex> hmm let's try
[2021-07-09T01:52:54Z] <riteo> oh it works
[2021-07-09T01:52:56Z] <konimex> konimex[m]
[2021-07-09T01:52:59Z] <konimex[m]> yep it works
[2021-07-09T01:53:06Z] <riteo> maybe it's because last time it was in the middle of the message?
[2021-07-09T01:53:12Z] <riteo> someone write my name in the middle of a random sentence
[2021-07-09T01:53:37Z] <kqz[m]> hello how are you doing riteo on this very fine day
[2021-07-09T01:53:45Z] <riteo> ok it doesn't work
[2021-07-09T01:53:50Z] <riteo> that's why
[2021-07-09T01:54:10Z] <riteo> that's interesting
[2021-07-09T01:54:20Z] <dilyn> kiwiirc will notify me without a : 
[2021-07-09T01:54:27Z] <dilyn> behold the power of web irc
[2021-07-09T01:54:28Z] <kqz[m]> lol yeah that's weird, most clients i've used ping regardless if someone types your nick
[2021-07-09T01:57:06Z] <acheam> okay I think I know how to fix this maybe, lets see
[2021-07-09T01:57:16Z] <acheam> some clients use | or , after mentions
[2021-07-09T01:57:26Z] <acheam> generally they just highlight any instance of the nick
[2021-07-09T01:57:31Z] <acheam> so it can even be mid message
[2021-07-09T01:59:35Z] <GalaxyNova> weechat only pings if someone types your nick
[2021-07-09T02:08:09Z] <riteo> mhhh I was reading https://k1sslinux.org/package-manager and though: what license are those scripts under? MIT?
[2021-07-09T02:08:23Z] <riteo> s/though/thought/g
[2021-07-09T02:08:30Z] <acheam> yes
[2021-07-09T02:08:35Z] <riteo> epic
[2021-07-09T02:08:53Z] <riteo> maybe it should be a little more explicit though, maybe in the footer?
[2021-07-09T02:09:01Z] <GalaxyNova> why does this community dislike GPL
[2021-07-09T02:09:05Z] <GalaxyNova> serious question
[2021-07-09T02:09:24Z] <konimex[m]> I don't
[2021-07-09T02:09:25Z] <acheam> its complex, and restricts user freedomss
[2021-07-09T02:09:28Z] <acheam> thats my reasoning
[2021-07-09T02:09:34Z] <acheam> its mostly me and dilyn who don't like it
[2021-07-09T02:09:40Z] <acheam> but I still like it in some circumstances
[2021-07-09T02:09:43Z] <riteo> same thing
[2021-07-09T02:09:52Z] <acheam> for example: I do like it in major projects like Linux, Git, etc
[2021-07-09T02:09:55Z] <acheam> but for my scripts repo?
[2021-07-09T02:09:57Z] <acheam> who tf cares
[2021-07-09T02:10:09Z] <dilyn> i do not like gpl for many reasons 
[2021-07-09T02:10:24Z] <riteo> I mean, my biggest concern is that it tries to use the law for stopping the same huge corpos who can literally manipulate it
[2021-07-09T02:10:37Z] <riteo> fine google however you want, they'll pay and keep doing whatever they want
[2021-07-09T02:11:08Z] <GalaxyNova> dilyn: elaborate ?
[2021-07-09T02:31:22Z] <dilyn> perhaps one day i will (: 
[2021-07-09T02:31:27Z] <dilyn> but this is some mad bs https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/blob/wayland/extra/mesa/post-install 
[2021-07-09T02:31:46Z] <riteo> I got a weird idea that might fix some issues with programs that download stuff at build time: what if we added some postdownload script in the package format for fancier stuff like predownloading rust crates or gradle dependencies?
[2021-07-09T02:32:17Z] <riteo> it should be basically free to implement, right?
[2021-07-09T02:33:36Z] <dilyn> i mean, technically... https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/blob/master/wayland/wl-clipboard-rs/sources
[2021-07-09T02:35:07Z] <riteo> yeah I know this has been done somewhat manually, but it would be nice to avoid this and automate it, expecially in... More extreme circumstances
[2021-07-09T02:35:29Z] <riteo> I wish I had the link of the issue of the person losing their minds to this but it looks like they disabled them on their repo
[2021-07-09T02:35:36Z] <riteo> s/minds/mind/g
[2021-07-09T02:39:54Z] <riteo> a lot of people tried to package java with the "download everything at the start" mentality and lost their minds due to the hundred (or were they thosands?) of dependencies and files that it downloads, or at least that's what I understood
[2021-07-09T02:41:36Z] <riteo> that repo in question was this btw: https://github.com/xzcvczx/KISS-Java-Repo
[2021-07-09T02:47:21Z] <dilyn> there used to be a contrib/kiss-* script that generated the sources file i linked
[2021-07-09T02:47:29Z] <dilyn> source wrangling is... maddening. :V 
[2021-07-09T02:48:29Z] <riteo> still an hug source file sounds a lot compared to a small script
[2021-07-09T02:48:40Z] <dilyn> mayhaps 
[2021-07-09T02:48:40Z] <riteo> expecially if that thousands dependencies thing is true
[2021-07-09T02:49:08Z] <riteo> I read it a long time ago and the proof of it got removed, so I really don't want to talk in absolute terms
[2021-07-09T02:49:21Z] <dilyn> I mean I wouldn't be surprised 
[2021-07-09T02:49:38Z] <dilyn> I tried to help mmatongo build jdk and I did not enjoy the twenty minutes i spent on it 
[2021-07-09T02:51:20Z] <riteo> oh their packages are bins too
[2021-07-09T02:53:05Z] <riteo> well, should I ever package java I'll surely try patching kiss and see how it goes
[2021-07-09T02:56:23Z] <riteo> does anybody know if there's a simpler way to get the first match of a glob other than `ls * | head -n 1`?
[2021-07-09T03:01:03Z] <acheam> ach now syslinux build is failing because of assembly things
[2021-07-09T03:01:12Z] <acheam> this is a little bit out of my area of expertise
[2021-07-09T03:01:16Z] <dilyn> if you don't care about POSIX you can use find -quit
[2021-07-09T03:01:16Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-07-09T03:01:31Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-07-09T03:02:04Z] <riteo> I see
[2021-07-09T03:02:28Z] <riteo> I'm doing some interesting stuff with kiss again, so I think I'll just stick with ls/printf and head
[2021-07-09T03:05:48Z] <riteo> and my interesting I mean mildly cursed
[2021-07-09T03:06:30Z] <riteo> s/my/by/
[2021-07-09T03:29:20Z] <konimex> man people are focusing on the wayland change and not openssl change huh
[2021-07-09T03:29:26Z] <riteo> yep
[2021-07-09T03:30:16Z] <riteo> although I must admit that I'm a bit split
[2021-07-09T03:30:41Z] <riteo> on one side libressl seems to have superior code quality but without the assembly the performance is worse and it's in general less audited and supported
[2021-07-09T03:31:29Z] <riteo> on the other openssl seems more supported and I heard it's a lot better from some time ago although it's still huge and it's code is not the best as far as I heard
[2021-07-09T03:32:00Z] <riteo> s/better from/better compared to/
[2021-07-09T03:32:27Z] <riteo> I just wish there was a standard ABI so that a very slim option could be created
[2021-07-09T03:34:21Z] <acheam> okay syslinux may never compile with gcc
[2021-07-09T03:34:21Z] <schillingklaus> the move to wayland is much worse
[2021-07-09T03:34:51Z] <schillingklaus> how is syslinux compiled? clang?
[2021-07-09T03:34:59Z] <acheam> ehr
[2021-07-09T03:35:03Z] <acheam> other way around I meant
[2021-07-09T03:35:10Z] <acheam> syslinux may never compile with clang
[2021-07-09T03:35:34Z] <acheam> gcc is super engrained in the build system
[2021-07-09T03:40:57Z] <schillingklaus> once network neutrality is abolished, free systems will be impossible, anyways, no matter whether with gcc or clang or cproc or tcc or...
[2021-07-09T03:51:40Z] <schillingklaus> which bootloader would compile with clang?
[2021-07-09T03:52:40Z] <acheam> schillingklaus: none of the ones im interested in
[2021-07-09T03:52:57Z] <acheam> lilo also fails due to the use of gnu extensions
[2021-07-09T03:53:11Z] <acheam> i guess I have no choice but to switch to uefi then
[2021-07-09T03:53:30Z] <acheam> my system is only 14gb luckily isn't all that much to backup
[2021-07-09T03:53:58Z] <acheam> of that 14gb, 8gb of it is an arch linux chroot lol
[2021-07-09T04:01:33Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-07-09T04:01:44Z] <riteo> hi!
[2021-07-09T04:05:00Z] <dilyn> 'arch is so minimal'
[2021-07-09T04:05:28Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-07-09T04:05:46Z] <schillingklaus> nothing with systemd is minimal
[2021-07-09T04:18:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> yes, riteo, Mezzano is very cool. I've considered tinkering with it. been following it for about a year
[2021-07-09T04:19:26Z] <midfavila-laptop> sorry for the late reply, been working on the community and core repos
[2021-07-09T04:19:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> gonna have to rewrite most of them at some point...
[2021-07-09T04:19:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> the packages, that is
[2021-07-09T04:20:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> also
[2021-07-09T04:20:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> >not writing your own bootloader
[2021-07-09T04:20:37Z] <midfavila-laptop> smh
[2021-07-09T04:20:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> disappointed in you acheam
[2021-07-09T04:21:13Z] <acheam> apologies
[2021-07-09T04:21:31Z] <acheam> honestly though.... how hard could it be?
[2021-07-09T04:21:44Z] <acheam> i dont need many features
[2021-07-09T04:21:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> i mean,
[2021-07-09T04:21:56Z] <midfavila-laptop> afaik the bootloader just has to bootstrap itself using 512 bytes
[2021-07-09T04:22:06Z] <acheam> it should read vmlinuz from an ext4 partition and thats it
[2021-07-09T04:22:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> and then basically just jump to the memory address of the kernel after loading it
[2021-07-09T04:22:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> but idk
[2021-07-09T04:22:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> i feel like a simple bootloader wouldn't be... terribly difficult. the worst part would probably be FS support
[2021-07-09T04:22:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> bootloader in common lisp time
[2021-07-09T04:23:01Z] <GalaxyNova> make it in elisp
[2021-07-09T04:23:04Z] <GalaxyNova> emacs bootloader
[2021-07-09T04:23:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> cringe and editor-pilled
[2021-07-09T04:23:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> there needs to be a not-shit common lisp editor
[2021-07-09T04:23:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> there's like three but they're all in various states of bitrot 
[2021-07-09T04:24:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> lisp shows up in the weirdest places
[2021-07-09T04:24:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> like,
[2021-07-09T04:24:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> apparently the engine for a ton of 3D N64 games was written in CLISP
[2021-07-09T04:24:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> SM64, Banjo and Kazooie, etc
[2021-07-09T04:24:35Z] <midfavila-laptop> same with Jak and Daxter
[2021-07-09T04:24:44Z] <riteo> midfavila-laptop: re: mazzano oh cool
[2021-07-09T04:24:54Z] <midfavila-laptop> yes, mezzano is very cool
[2021-07-09T04:24:56Z] <schillingklaus> stumpwm
[2021-07-09T04:25:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> apparently you can just about boot it on real hardware
[2021-07-09T04:25:08Z] <dilyn> how big even is systemd...
[2021-07-09T04:25:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> the problem isn't size, but complexity
[2021-07-09T04:25:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> although I wouldn't be surprised if systemd was thick as fuck
[2021-07-09T04:25:31Z] <dilyn> cool
[2021-07-09T04:25:33Z] <dilyn> it's 26MB
[2021-07-09T04:25:47Z] <riteo> compiled?
[2021-07-09T04:25:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, it's smaller than emacs, so that's good at least
[2021-07-09T04:26:07Z] <rio6> damn how big is emacs
[2021-07-09T04:26:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> all together? 109mb
[2021-07-09T04:26:24Z] <midfavila-laptop> at least on my system. that's not with any packages or fancy configs.
[2021-07-09T04:26:40Z] <riteo> those numbers are compiled, right?
[2021-07-09T04:26:41Z] <GalaxyNova> TIL mid uses emacs
[2021-07-09T04:26:48Z] <dilyn> that's what arch reports as the installed size 
[2021-07-09T04:26:53Z] <riteo> like, not the source tarball or anything, right?
[2021-07-09T04:26:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> emacs is what I've been using for anything that requires more than plain ASCII
[2021-07-09T04:27:03Z] <midfavila-laptop> and yes, mine is compiled
[2021-07-09T04:27:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> in the future I'd like to write a simpler emacsen 
[2021-07-09T04:27:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> and, more importantly,
[2021-07-09T04:27:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> make most of the default packages optional
[2021-07-09T04:27:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> like
[2021-07-09T04:27:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> why the fuck is tetris a mandatory package
[2021-07-09T04:27:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> get that outta here
[2021-07-09T04:27:47Z] <riteo> damn, if my memory hasn't gone away systemd is scaringly close to a compiled linux kernel
[2021-07-09T04:27:53Z] <schillingklaus> I need much less for emacs
[2021-07-09T04:27:54Z] <midfavila-laptop> about twice as large
[2021-07-09T04:27:56Z] <riteo> even bigger than it
[2021-07-09T04:27:57Z] <riteo> god
[2021-07-09T04:28:06Z] <rio6> <why the fuck is tetris a mandatory package> lol
[2021-07-09T04:28:11Z] <riteo> what
[2021-07-09T04:28:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> klaus do you only use the terminal UI?
[2021-07-09T04:28:16Z] <riteo> why
[2021-07-09T04:28:21Z] <schillingklaus> yes, I onlyy use the terminal
[2021-07-09T04:28:43Z] <schillingklaus> for I hate mice, colours, icons,...
[2021-07-09T04:28:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> the same reason emacs has two calculators, a news reader, a web browser, an email client, an irc client, a shell, a terminal emulator (I think), file management capabilities, graphics capabilities...
[2021-07-09T04:29:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> these are all default btw
[2021-07-09T04:29:03Z] <riteo> uh, so it's really an operating system
[2021-07-09T04:29:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> p much
[2021-07-09T04:29:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> i just like command chords
[2021-07-09T04:29:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> and having inline graphics can be useful for presentations and stuff
[2021-07-09T04:29:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> but for the most part emacs is super overkill
[2021-07-09T04:30:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> hmm
[2021-07-09T04:30:52Z] <schillingklaus> just a bit over 10MB for emacs here
[2021-07-09T04:30:54Z] <midfavila-laptop> til that brownout exists
[2021-07-09T04:30:56Z] <midfavila-laptop> also,
[2021-07-09T04:31:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> is that ls -lh or kiss size, klaus?
[2021-07-09T04:31:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm using kiss size
[2021-07-09T04:31:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> which is total size on disk
[2021-07-09T04:31:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> just the emacs binary on my system is six megs
[2021-07-09T04:34:13Z] <GalaxyNova> is there any way I can force a program to be installed?
[2021-07-09T04:34:27Z] <GalaxyNova> > trick the package manager to think it is installed
[2021-07-09T04:34:28Z] <testuser[m]> KISS_FORCE
[2021-07-09T04:34:30Z] <testuser[m]> =1
[2021-07-09T04:34:38Z] <GalaxyNova> that works with install?
[2021-07-09T04:34:40Z] <GalaxyNova> cool
[2021-07-09T04:34:54Z] <testuser[m]> What else would you use it on
[2021-07-09T04:35:03Z] <riteo> removal?
[2021-07-09T04:35:50Z] <GalaxyNova> I've always used it with removal
[2021-07-09T05:35:11Z] <humaid_01> hello
[2021-07-09T05:35:18Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-07-09T05:35:28Z] <humaid_01> how are you testuser?
[2021-07-09T05:35:49Z] <riteo> hi!
[2021-07-09T05:36:02Z] <humaid_01> hi riteo
[2021-07-09T05:36:55Z] <humaid_01> I have been watching the logs for months, this is my first time using irc from terminal(kirc).
[2021-07-09T05:38:11Z] <testuser[m]> <humaid_01 "how are you testuser?"> Good
[2021-07-09T05:38:19Z] <humaid_01> I was wondering, is there a binary release of chromium? If not, how much time does it take people on laptops to build it?
[2021-07-09T05:38:47Z] <riteo> have you checked in the binary repo?
[2021-07-09T05:38:54Z] <testuser[m]> 2 days probably
[2021-07-09T05:39:08Z] <riteo> oh there's only firefox
[2021-07-09T05:39:18Z] <humaid_01> riteo, yes.
[2021-07-09T05:39:22Z] <riteo> yeah it takes a lot of time to build a web browser
[2021-07-09T05:39:28Z] <riteo> expecially chromium
[2021-07-09T05:39:33Z] <testuser[m]> what specs on laptop?
[2021-07-09T05:40:31Z] <testuser[m]> Building on HDD with R5 3600 takes ~5 hrs, and ~20gb of ram (including swapping)
[2021-07-09T05:40:33Z] <humaid_01> testuser, yeah 2days is a little much. I'm on i3 mobile cpu
[2021-07-09T05:40:43Z] <humaid_01> 8GB ram
[2021-07-09T05:41:00Z] <humaid_01> swap is available
[2021-07-09T05:41:31Z] <riteo> I don't think you can build it in a reasonable timeframe
[2021-07-09T05:41:48Z] <riteo> maybe someone already built it though
[2021-07-09T05:42:11Z] <humaid_01> riteo, I think you are right.
[2021-07-09T05:42:24Z] <riteo> ask around, I really don't want to say a wrong thing but I think acheam built it already if I'm not mistaken
[2021-07-09T05:42:51Z] <humaid_01> If someone could provide it, I'll be happy to drop nix.
[2021-07-09T05:43:11Z] <humaid_01> Thank you guys.
[2021-07-09T05:43:13Z] <testuser[m]> It's not happening on an i3 humaid, will take literal weeks
[2021-07-09T05:43:29Z] <testuser[m]> I'll upload my generic binary when i next bump chromium
[2021-07-09T05:43:34Z] <testuser[m]> i.e 2 weeks
[2021-07-09T05:44:06Z] <humaid_01> testuser, Good. I'll wait.
[2021-07-09T05:44:45Z] <riteo> nice
[2021-07-09T05:45:31Z] <humaid_01> I actully tried to build it, but came after 18 hours, and it was in the beggining, so I quit. 
[2021-07-09T05:46:15Z] <riteo> god why do programs like these exist
[2021-07-09T05:48:05Z] <humaid_01> One time I tried to build it, went to bed..and in the morning it was only decompressing chromium's sources if I remember.
[2021-07-09T05:48:22Z] <humaid_01> haha I won't try again.
[2021-07-09T05:57:36Z] <riteo> well, gtg, bye everyone!
[2021-07-09T08:36:21Z] <testuser[m]> Is anyone here running a non x86_64-v3 supporting cpu ?
[2021-07-09T08:36:26Z] <testuser[m]> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/631217/how-do-i-check-if-my-cpu-supports-x86-64-v2/631226#631226
[2021-07-09T10:09:21Z] <ang> acheam: join the /boot/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi gang
[2021-07-09T10:10:02Z] <ang> no need to mess around with efivars
[2021-07-09T10:10:56Z] <ang> s|/boot||2
[2021-07-09T11:30:27Z] <lonzo> hey hey
[2021-07-09T11:33:06Z] <ang> o/
[2021-07-09T11:34:01Z] <lonzo> so we moving to wayland now huh
[2021-07-09T11:44:22Z] <ang> the official repos are, yep
[2021-07-09T11:44:50Z] <ang> good chances people who don't want to make the switch, wont have to
[2021-07-09T11:45:07Z] <ang> only change being an addition to $KISS_PATH
[2021-07-09T13:54:03Z] <jslick> testuser my w520 running kiss might be non-x86_64-v3 , but it's not turned on right now.  It has a 2nd gen mobile i7
[2021-07-09T14:11:32Z] <akira01> hi guys
[2021-07-09T14:13:17Z] <testuser[m]> hi
[2021-07-09T14:14:13Z] <testuser[m]> kqz are you running synapse ? Or some other hs implementation
[2021-07-09T14:15:16Z] <kqz[m]> i believe synapse, it's a hosted plan via element.io so whatever they use 
[2021-07-09T14:15:29Z] <testuser[m]> Oh
[2021-07-09T16:50:36Z] <acheam> rustc can now use GCC as a backend
[2021-07-09T16:50:38Z] <acheam> https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/442
[2021-07-09T16:52:17Z] <testuser[m]> nice
[2021-07-09T16:52:37Z] <testuser[m]> So it's possible to drop lolvm if you just need rust ?
[2021-07-09T16:54:01Z] <acheam> I think so
[2021-07-09T16:54:23Z] <acheam> no idea how comparable optimizations, binary size, etc are
[2021-07-09T16:55:04Z] <acheam> my solution is just to not use rust
[2021-07-09T17:19:42Z] <zola> I just saw that dylan posted an on kisslinux.xyz about moving to openssl and wayland, with braking changes
[2021-07-09T17:19:59Z] <zola> Does this mean kiss linux i splitting into 2 distros
[2021-07-09T17:20:40Z] <omanom> you can scroll back in the irc logs to see some opinions -- nothing is really decided yet
[2021-07-09T17:20:55Z] <zola> I will 
[2021-07-09T17:21:11Z] <zola> i am really interested to see where this all goes
[2021-07-09T17:23:12Z] <kyxor> Hello, yeah I saw dylan post too, that's why I hopped into irc (my first time here)
[2021-07-09T17:23:19Z] <acheam> hey kyxor 
[2021-07-09T17:23:36Z] <acheam> yeah nobody really knows much
[2021-07-09T17:23:44Z] <acheam> i've decided just to self-maintain my own kiss fork
[2021-07-09T17:23:56Z] <dilyn> KISS isn't splitting
[2021-07-09T17:29:25Z] <kyxor> Did anybody else experience a bug with busybox's ash shell where it does not correctly handle termination signals? I use st terminal, and sometimes ash shell terminates before the st terminal leaving the terminal unresponsive, kill is the only option
[2021-07-09T17:29:35Z] <acheam> yes
[2021-07-09T17:29:56Z] <acheam> no clue how to fix it
[2021-07-09T17:30:06Z] <acheam> never really bothered with it, its easy enough to just use xkill
[2021-07-09T17:33:08Z] <kyxor> I wonder why but I can only reproduce this ash bug on a certain machine and others don't seem to have this bug. Or it's so random. I saw a bug report from 2012 on busybox bugzilla describing similar problem. Y
[2021-07-09T17:37:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> blame DNS
[2021-07-09T17:37:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's always the fault of DNS
[2021-07-09T17:37:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> even when it's not
[2021-07-09T17:38:32Z] <kyxor> Also if you guys remember the github issue where I was talking about embedding blobs into kernel, well I tried it again and basically the path has to be 100% the same as on the firmware git repo, so if you don't make all the subfolders the kernel will not load the blobs, it's hardcoded.
[2021-07-09T17:38:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> uh, no
[2021-07-09T17:38:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's not true.
[2021-07-09T17:39:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's a relative path starting from /lib/firmware
[2021-07-09T17:39:44Z] <kyxor> I had an extra slash in the path, and it does not like those either.
[2021-07-09T17:39:53Z] <ang> kyxor, yeah I experienced the firmware thing too
[2021-07-09T17:40:30Z] <ang> the kernel requests something like "foowifi/bar.bin"
[2021-07-09T17:40:53Z] <ang> and it's gotta be build into the kernel under that path
[2021-07-09T17:42:59Z] <ang> I was puzzled for quite a while why the kernel wouldn't load certain firmware
[2021-07-09T17:44:37Z] <kyxor> midfavila-laptop, what's DNS? Domain resolution name is only one I know of
[2021-07-09T17:44:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's the joke.
[2021-07-09T17:46:22Z] <kyxor> Well, good to know who to blame for then :) 
[2021-07-09T17:48:17Z] <acheam> midfavila-laptop: yeah I'm not sure you're right on that
[2021-07-09T17:48:30Z] <acheam> i've seen the same thing with exact paths
[2021-07-09T17:49:04Z] * midfavila-laptop shrugs
[2021-07-09T17:49:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> Only time I've run into problems is when I haven't used relative paths.
[2021-07-09T17:49:52Z] <kyxor> I guess I can close this? Not worth a check? https://github.com/kiss-community/kiss/issues/57
[2021-07-09T17:51:33Z] <acheam> kyxor: it might get more traction if you submit it as a PR
[2021-07-09T17:51:42Z] <acheam> less friction on the maintainer end
[2021-07-09T17:51:52Z] <acheam> even if you already outline exactly what to do
[2021-07-09T18:02:28Z] <micro_O> has anyone else seen the issue that if you kiss build/install a dependency of sway, it will crash a running sway instance? I wish I could see a log/dump of what exactly is breaking it, but it freezes my entire machine and i have to hard reboot.
[2021-07-09T18:02:53Z] <micro_O> its gotten to the point where I only kiss update in a tty, with sway exited, which is a little annoying.
[2021-07-09T18:03:20Z] <omanom> if i kill wayfire or sway, the whole laptop freezes.  the only way i can "exit" is to reboot
[2021-07-09T18:03:29Z] <micro_O> It also might not be sway's fault - could be some kernel config / missing IPC or service, etc.
[2021-07-09T18:03:34Z] <omanom> not quite the same i guess
[2021-07-09T18:03:41Z] <micro_O> omanom I can exit sway naturally / restart it without freezing
[2021-07-09T18:05:37Z] <dilyn> i firmly believe this is some sort of wayland issue 
[2021-07-09T18:05:46Z] <dilyn> (I have had this for many months on hikari and wayfire :v) 
[2021-07-09T18:06:39Z] <kqz[m]> more likely a driver issue, used to have the same on amdgpu but can no longer reproduce on newer kernels
[2021-07-09T18:06:48Z] <cem> duh don't exit sway
[2021-07-09T18:07:17Z] <cem> jokes aside, I think I had that issue until I started using seatd
[2021-07-09T18:07:18Z] <kqz[m]> probably something to do with grabbing and destroying device nodes properly, could try asking around in #sway 
[2021-07-09T18:08:39Z] <cem> I used my phone to ssh in and switch between ttys when that happened
[2021-07-09T18:16:13Z] <testuser[m]> ulimit -c unlimited then just crash it and check the core file
[2021-07-09T18:16:25Z] <testuser[m]> It's a segfault right ?
[2021-07-09T18:54:48Z] <akira01> man
[2021-07-09T18:54:59Z] <akira01> wtf did dylan with eiwd?
[2021-07-09T18:55:05Z] <akira01> it disappear
[2021-07-09T18:55:16Z] <acheam> use illiliti's fork
[2021-07-09T18:58:43Z] <akira01> dylan go crazy
[2021-07-09T18:58:47Z] <akira01> why eiwd?
[2021-07-09T18:58:57Z] <akira01> he mentioned somethinf?
[2021-07-09T18:59:49Z] <omanom> if i remember right, dylan wasn't maintaining eiwd when he took a break so illiliti started.  there were a couple changes needed to work with newer kernels
[2021-07-09T19:05:05Z] <kyxor> Why people use eiwd? does it perform better than wpa_supplicant ?
[2021-07-09T19:05:34Z] <akira01> less bloat
[2021-07-09T19:06:53Z] <kyxor> Hm, I might consider it. But wasn't there more bloat because of systemd dependency or smth? 
[2021-07-09T19:07:15Z] <omanom> eiwd removes the dbus dependency
[2021-07-09T19:07:29Z] <akira01> yeah
[2021-07-09T19:07:37Z] <akira01> and it not have cli
[2021-07-09T19:10:43Z] <kyxor> Also do you guys know a good htop replacement? Preferably written in C, vi keys, (not busybox top) 
[2021-07-09T19:11:03Z] <akira01> don't know
[2021-07-09T19:11:11Z] <akira01> but maybe you see in slant.co
[2021-07-09T19:13:05Z] <kyxor> What's that? 
[2021-07-09T19:13:19Z] <akira01> website
[2021-07-09T19:13:42Z] <akira01> with had a ranking by users
[2021-07-09T19:14:18Z] <akira01> search about best system monitors for linux
[2021-07-09T19:14:32Z] <akira01> You will see much options listed
[2021-07-09T19:15:50Z] <ang> > (not busybox top)
[2021-07-09T19:15:58Z] <ang> top from procps-ng :p
[2021-07-09T19:16:31Z] <kyxor> Sorry the jc threw me off
[2021-07-09T19:16:58Z] <kyxor> Sorry the fat of js on that site, can't access with lynx, 1 sec
[2021-07-09T19:25:52Z] <kyxor> Ok thanks I found some options on that site. nmon looks pretty minimal, also atop looks interesting
[2021-07-09T19:26:42Z] <GalaxyNova> is ninja (the build system) not packaged in community?
[2021-07-09T19:26:49Z] <GalaxyNova> i was 100% sure it was
[2021-07-09T19:27:00Z] <kqz[m]> kiss uses samurai
[2021-07-09T19:27:12Z] <GalaxyNova> are they interchangable?
[2021-07-09T19:27:15Z] <omanom> yes
[2021-07-09T19:27:17Z] <kqz[m]> yep
[2021-07-09T19:27:52Z] <GalaxyNova> alright
[2021-07-09T19:28:27Z] <omanom> https://k1sslinux.org/news/20191031a for reference to change
[2021-07-09T20:12:05Z] <trunc88> Writing an issue for a scenario that causes kiss to segfault. how should i obtain debugging info for this? not sure if its curl or the shell or what is actually segfaulting
[2021-07-09T20:12:48Z] <acheam> hard to tell without more info
[2021-07-09T20:12:56Z] <acheam> send the build log
[2021-07-09T20:13:02Z] <acheam> they're in ~/.cache/kiss/logs
[2021-07-09T20:15:40Z] <trunc88> i think it segfaults before it writes the log
[2021-07-09T20:16:07Z] <trunc88> its as soon as the source download reaches 100%
[2021-07-09T20:16:46Z] <acheam> hmmmmmm
[2021-07-09T20:16:51Z] <acheam> kiss version?
[2021-07-09T20:17:12Z] <trunc88> 5.4.10
[2021-07-09T20:17:20Z] <trunc88> i kinda know what causes it
[2021-07-09T20:17:57Z] <trunc88> if i have "hosts: files dns" in /etc/nsswitch.conf so that dnscrypt respects /etc/hosts, it will segfault
[2021-07-09T20:18:31Z] <trunc88> i havent checked if it segfaults when not using dnsscrypt yet
[2021-07-09T20:19:22Z] <trunc88> i will once gtk3 finishes building
[2021-07-09T20:24:24Z] <GalaxyNova> what browsers do you use acheam
[2021-07-09T20:24:58Z] <acheam> GalaxyNova: links + chorizo
[2021-07-09T20:57:28Z] <trunc88> acheam: it segfaults when not using dnscrypt-proxy as well. any ideas or should i just submit the issue?
[2021-07-09T20:57:57Z] <acheam> trunc88: nothing comes to mind
[2021-07-09T20:58:03Z] <acheam> im not familiar with that software
[2021-07-09T21:06:08Z] <trunc88> well, its unrelated to that software
[2021-07-09T21:06:33Z] <trunc88> it seems to purely be caused by /etc/nsswitch.conf
[2021-07-09T21:10:08Z] <jstnas> kyxor: check out https://gitlab.com/thelinuxguy9/htim written in C, vi keys
[2021-07-09T21:48:58Z] <kyxor> Thanks jstnas, I did not realize that htop was actually mostly C, I assumed it was written in python because it has that dependancy if you look into the package revdepends. What does it use python for? 
[2021-07-09T21:53:42Z] <jstnas> it doesn't like like the sources for either contain any python, so I'm not sure
[2021-07-09T21:53:43Z] <ang> it
[2021-07-09T21:54:00Z] <ang> it's a build-time dep
[2021-07-09T21:54:39Z] <jstnas> yeah, I'm just not sure why you need python to build it
[2021-07-09T21:56:33Z] <ang> maintainer error then maybe?
[2021-07-09T21:58:07Z] <ang> yeah, python was removed from the build system at some point
[2021-07-09T21:58:22Z] <ang> https://github.com/htop-dev/htop/search?q=python
[2021-07-09T21:59:08Z] <jstnas> nice
[2021-07-09T22:00:34Z] <ang> somebody should let Ominitay <37453713+Ominitay@users.noreply.github.com> know
[2021-07-09T22:41:55Z] <acheam> do those github emails forward to the sender?
[2021-07-09T22:42:03Z] <acheam> s/sender/user/g
[2021-07-09T22:52:21Z] <ang> no idea
[2021-07-09T22:53:18Z] <ang> acheam: did you fix the uefi stuff or too lazy to repartition?
[2021-07-09T22:54:29Z] <ang> earlier I suggested to you to skip efibootmgr all together
[2021-07-09T22:55:38Z] <acheam> ang: I'll do it on the weekend. on the weekdays my computer is mission critical, unfortunately
[2021-07-09T22:56:05Z] <kyxor> I think it does forward it to their email
[2021-07-09T22:56:25Z] <kyxor> Let me test
[2021-07-09T22:56:25Z] <ang> acheam: ah
[2021-07-09T22:56:39Z] <ang> yeh, better not render it unusable
[2021-07-09T22:56:44Z] <acheam> I'll probably just reinstall
[2021-07-09T22:57:24Z] <ang> if you don't mind recompiling the kernel whenever you want to change the kernel commandline
[2021-07-09T22:57:39Z] <ang> I would go the /boot/EFI/bootx64.efi route
[2021-07-09T22:58:10Z] <acheam> yeah I dont mind recompiling
[2021-07-09T22:58:34Z] <acheam> thanks for the tip
[2021-07-09T22:58:58Z] <ang> yw
[2021-07-09T23:01:36Z] <kyxor> hm never mind, I can't sent myself an email though this .noreply thing, so it probably does not work. I guess just make gihub issue and ping him form there is only option
[2021-07-09T23:17:44Z] <kyxor> Done. https://github.com/kiss-community/community/issues/534