💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-06-17.txt captured on 2022-07-17 at 03:10:50.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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[2021-06-17T00:03:03Z] <Sweets> .
[2021-06-17T00:03:10Z] <necromansy> .
[2021-06-17T00:03:16Z] <Sweets> frens :)
[2021-06-17T00:03:17Z] <Sweets> hello
[2021-06-17T00:03:36Z] <necromansy> heyo
[2021-06-17T00:03:38Z] <necromansy> sup?
[2021-06-17T00:03:46Z] <Sweets> working on a project
[2021-06-17T00:03:50Z] <necromansy> ohnoice noice
[2021-06-17T00:07:03Z] <necromansy> whats the project?
[2021-06-17T01:36:09Z] <acheam> woot kiss is on all my machines now
[2021-06-17T01:36:33Z] <midfavila> took you long enough
[2021-06-17T01:36:34Z] <midfavila> nerd
[2021-06-17T01:37:13Z] <acheam> love you too mid
[2021-06-17T01:37:39Z] <midfavila> uwu~
[2021-06-17T01:37:58Z] <midfavila> hopefully you didn't run into any weird issues setting it up
[2021-06-17T01:38:20Z] <acheam> no was pretty straightforward
[2021-06-17T01:38:36Z] <acheam> accidentally wrote the MBR to the partition not the drive
[2021-06-17T01:38:48Z] <acheam> which took a second to debug
[2021-06-17T01:38:51Z] <midfavila> fivehead move, but also fair
[2021-06-17T01:39:37Z] <acheam> surprisingly kernel config worked first try
[2021-06-17T01:39:47Z] <acheam> my first time using firmware
[2021-06-17T01:40:33Z] <midfavila> well, better than when I gave it my first shot
[2021-06-17T01:41:02Z] <acheam> oh?
[2021-06-17T01:41:03Z] <midfavila> i had to figure out why the kernel wasn't able to find polaris blobs under lib/firmware, only to be told "you realize it doesn't walk subdirectories right"
[2021-06-17T01:41:18Z] <midfavila> this was back when I used slackware
[2021-06-17T01:41:45Z] <acheam> did you just unar the full tarball into /lib/firmware?
[2021-06-17T01:41:53Z] <midfavila> yeah.
[2021-06-17T01:41:57Z] <midfavila> ngl until recently I still did that
[2021-06-17T01:41:59Z] <acheam> sounds like bloat to me
[2021-06-17T01:42:05Z] <midfavila> oh hush
[2021-06-17T01:42:13Z] <midfavila> you probably install all of KISS' documentation and never use it
[2021-06-17T01:42:29Z] <acheam> imagine not deleting /usr/share/games to save an inode
[2021-06-17T01:42:57Z] <midfavila> i nuke usr/local every time I set a system up
[2021-06-17T01:43:08Z] <midfavila> if I could I'd move everything from /usr to /
[2021-06-17T01:43:14Z] <acheam> bruh
[2021-06-17T01:43:17Z] <acheam> wht
[2021-06-17T01:44:06Z] <midfavila> have we never had this conversation before
[2021-06-17T01:44:12Z] <acheam> no
[2021-06-17T01:44:46Z] <midfavila> i'm just not a huge fan of /usr.
[2021-06-17T01:44:48Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-06-17T01:45:06Z] <midfavila> it's just redundant in a lot of ways
[2021-06-17T01:46:22Z] <acheam> tbf half of it gets symlonmed yo / anybow
[2021-06-17T01:46:53Z] <midfavila> symlonmed
[2021-06-17T01:47:53Z] <midfavila> but yeah, /usr wasn't even used for what it is now.. it used to be /home
[2021-06-17T01:59:48Z] <necromansy> yeah /usr bothers me, id prefer if it was merged into / and $home for systemwide and user respectively
[2021-06-17T02:00:16Z] <midfavila> Eh.
[2021-06-17T02:00:31Z] <midfavila> System-wide stuff should be under / and user directories should be under /usr, imo
[2021-06-17T02:00:56Z] <necromansy> ideally yeah but with the current FHS thats not really viable
[2021-06-17T02:13:49Z] <Sweets> .
[2021-06-17T02:13:58Z] <midfavila> ..
[2021-06-17T02:14:18Z] <Sweets> hello gamer friends
[2021-06-17T02:14:18Z] <necromansy> ...
[2021-06-17T02:14:20Z] <GalaxyNova> midfavila: what??
[2021-06-17T02:14:22Z] <Sweets> I have returned
[2021-06-17T02:14:32Z] <midfavila> hey, Sweets
[2021-06-17T02:14:35Z] <Sweets> necromansy: It's a program that does memory injection
[2021-06-17T02:14:40Z] <necromansy> oh nice
[2021-06-17T02:14:42Z] <midfavila> GalaxyNova what????
[2021-06-17T02:14:50Z] <GalaxyNova> what?????
[2021-06-17T02:15:09Z] <midfavila> what????????
[2021-06-17T02:15:55Z] <GalaxyNova> \/usr on / would make no sense lol
[2021-06-17T02:16:08Z] <midfavila> uh, why not
[2021-06-17T02:16:12Z] <GalaxyNova> oof you can't escape slashes on IRC
[2021-06-17T02:16:54Z] <GalaxyNova> /usr/bin is a symlink to /bin anyway
[2021-06-17T02:17:25Z] <Sweets> not per file system hierarchy standard
[2021-06-17T02:17:37Z] <midfavila> nobody follows the FHS anyway at this point
[2021-06-17T02:17:42Z] <Sweets> usr/bin being linked to /bin is because distro devs are lazy cunts
[2021-06-17T02:17:50Z] <midfavila> it's like quibbling about the LSB
[2021-06-17T02:17:52Z] <Sweets> and also it makes package management convenient
[2021-06-17T02:17:53Z] <GalaxyNova> kiss linux symlinks /usr/bin to /bin as well lol
[2021-06-17T02:18:00Z] <Sweets> I said what I said
[2021-06-17T02:18:03Z] <Sweets> dylan isn't exempt
[2021-06-17T02:18:09Z] <necromansy> oh for sure
[2021-06-17T02:18:10Z] <necromansy> lmao
[2021-06-17T02:18:27Z] <GalaxyNova> i guess it simplifies things
[2021-06-17T02:18:35Z] <midfavila> the way I see it is
[2021-06-17T02:18:40Z] <Sweets> I need to learn arm64 flavored assembly
[2021-06-17T02:18:46Z] <Sweets> my dumbass knows 0 assembly
[2021-06-17T02:18:52Z] <Sweets> someone send help
[2021-06-17T02:18:54Z] <midfavila> why have /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/local/sbin, *and* whatever else your distro adds
[2021-06-17T02:18:58Z] <necromansy> midfavila: i am become bloat destroyer of ram
[2021-06-17T02:19:01Z] <necromansy> running mtm inside dvtm
[2021-06-17T02:19:04Z] <GalaxyNova> cmidfavila: compatibility
[2021-06-17T02:19:07Z] <Sweets> because /usr was the original /home directory
[2021-06-17T02:19:20Z] <Sweets> so /usr/bin, /usr/... was things installed by the user
[2021-06-17T02:19:31Z] <Sweets> ./sbin has special permissions, normally
[2021-06-17T02:19:36Z] <midfavila> er
[2021-06-17T02:19:37Z] <Sweets> ./sbin is only accessible by root user
[2021-06-17T02:19:43Z] <midfavila> last I checked /opt was locally installed software, under early unix
[2021-06-17T02:19:45Z] <GalaxyNova> iirc the Unix devs ran out of space on the root parition so they made a new disk and mounted it to /usr
[2021-06-17T02:19:46Z] <Sweets> and /bin is for system wide tools
[2021-06-17T02:19:48Z] <GalaxyNova> then /usr was born
[2021-06-17T02:19:52Z] <Sweets> correct
[2021-06-17T02:20:12Z] <midfavila> eeeeeeeh.
[2021-06-17T02:20:35Z] <GalaxyNova> Sweets: that's how it is on *BSD
[2021-06-17T02:20:41Z] <GalaxyNova> /bin is for system tools
[2021-06-17T02:20:42Z] <Sweets> all of the bin directories _have_ purpose, but linking them all to /usr/bin invalidates their reasoning for existence
[2021-06-17T02:20:47Z] <Sweets> that's how it is on linux too
[2021-06-17T02:20:50Z] <Sweets> or was originally anyways
[2021-06-17T02:20:55Z] <Sweets> debian still does it that way iirc
[2021-06-17T02:21:12Z] <midfavila> one of these days I'm gonna write my own OS
[2021-06-17T02:21:19Z] <midfavila> then, no standard will bind me
[2021-06-17T02:21:27Z] <Sweets> including the kernel?
[2021-06-17T02:21:35Z] <GalaxyNova> You will end up re-creating windows 95
[2021-06-17T02:21:39Z] <midfavila> i mean, if I'm gonna go for it I'm gonna really go for it
[2021-06-17T02:21:47Z] <Sweets> then just go for it
[2021-06-17T02:21:56Z] <midfavila> and no, if anything it's going to be an unholy abomination between RiscOS and Plan 9
[2021-06-17T02:22:28Z] <GalaxyNova> what's the purpose of /sbin anyway
[2021-06-17T02:22:34Z] <Sweets> secure bin tools
[2021-06-17T02:22:34Z] <midfavila> system binaries
[2021-06-17T02:22:40Z] <Sweets> system management tools
[2021-06-17T02:22:42Z] <GalaxyNova> but like
[2021-06-17T02:22:45Z] <Sweets> things that only admins should be able to use
[2021-06-17T02:22:46Z] <GalaxyNova> can't they go in /bin
[2021-06-17T02:22:53Z] <midfavila> it's a matter of convenience
[2021-06-17T02:22:54Z] <Sweets> no, that's why it's the secure bin
[2021-06-17T02:23:04Z] <midfavila> I've never heard anyone call it "secure bin"
[2021-06-17T02:23:05Z] <Sweets> so normal users can't access them
[2021-06-17T02:23:08Z] <midfavila> it's always been "system bin"
[2021-06-17T02:23:09Z] <GalaxyNova> does it make things more secure?
[2021-06-17T02:23:17Z] <midfavila> eeeeeeeeeeeeh. i mean, yes
[2021-06-17T02:23:23Z] <midfavila> you can't run configuration tools
[2021-06-17T02:23:26Z] <midfavila> or anything like that
[2021-06-17T02:23:37Z] <Sweets> system bin, secure bin, whatever you call it, its purpose is that tools inside it should only be administrative system tools that only root user can access
[2021-06-17T02:23:39Z] <GalaxyNova> you can't run configuration tools as a normal user anyway
[2021-06-17T02:23:39Z] <midfavila> it's the same thing with chmod'ing binaries to prevent users who don't need them from running them
[2021-06-17T02:23:48Z] <GalaxyNova> the program will complain about insufficient permissions
[2021-06-17T02:23:52Z] <GalaxyNova> so what's the point
[2021-06-17T02:24:02Z] <midfavila> GalaxyNova sure, but what if I'm trying to run an exploit?
[2021-06-17T02:24:17Z] <Sweets> midfavila: _that_, and also /sbin isn't generally in a users path env var
[2021-06-17T02:24:19Z] <midfavila> preventing people from seeing just what they're dealing with can help in mitigating things.
[2021-06-17T02:24:22Z] <Sweets> so you won't even see them
[2021-06-17T02:24:26Z] <midfavila> yeah, I know
[2021-06-17T02:24:28Z] <midfavila> slackware does that
[2021-06-17T02:24:36Z] <GalaxyNova> so does BSD
[2021-06-17T02:24:46Z] <midfavila> i remember being confused why I couldn't find ifconfig when I first installed slackware years ago
[2021-06-17T02:25:23Z] <GalaxyNova> but imagine all the complexity that would come in the package manager if it had to install packages in different directories
[2021-06-17T02:25:35Z] <midfavila> uh
[2021-06-17T02:25:37Z] <midfavila> literally none
[2021-06-17T02:25:40Z] <GalaxyNova> installing everything in /usr/bin makes sense from a simplicity standpoint
[2021-06-17T02:25:44Z] <midfavila> you just change a configure flag
[2021-06-17T02:26:09Z] <GalaxyNova> oh
[2021-06-17T02:26:14Z] <GalaxyNova> you're right
[2021-06-17T02:26:15Z] <necromansy> you already can do that with the PREFIX flag in make files too
[2021-06-17T02:26:37Z] <midfavila> --bindir, --prefix, --libdir, etc
[2021-06-17T02:28:58Z] <GalaxyNova> I'm sure there's a reason why the layout is what it is on KISS
[2021-06-17T02:29:18Z] <midfavila> because manually making everything work under / would be a massive pain
[2021-06-17T02:29:35Z] <midfavila> or so I imagine
[2021-06-17T02:29:53Z] <Sweets> fuck it, just put everything in /tmp
[2021-06-17T02:30:05Z] <Sweets> or /var/log
[2021-06-17T02:30:08Z] <GalaxyNova> lol
[2021-06-17T02:30:11Z] <midfavila> /var/db
[2021-06-17T02:30:14Z] <midfavila> obviously
[2021-06-17T02:30:14Z] <Sweets> PATH=/var/db
[2021-06-17T02:30:18Z] <Sweets> export PATH
[2021-06-17T02:30:25Z] <GalaxyNova> i actually keep all my repositories in /var/db
[2021-06-17T02:30:36Z] <Sweets> i believe it
[2021-06-17T02:30:46Z] <midfavila> not sure I do
[2021-06-17T02:30:52Z] <midfavila> that's a pretty tall claim
[2021-06-17T02:32:06Z] <GalaxyNova> xD
[2021-06-17T02:33:06Z] <Sweets> man
[2021-06-17T02:33:09Z] <Sweets> writing shellcode
[2021-06-17T02:33:11Z] <Sweets> absolute painl.
[2021-06-17T02:33:14Z] <Sweets> pain.*
[2021-06-17T02:33:38Z] <midfavila> now write perl
[2021-06-17T02:34:14Z] <midfavila> my programmer-friends always complain about shellcode and say that it's easier to work with a "Real:tm:" language
[2021-06-17T02:34:36Z] <Sweets> shellcode != shell
[2021-06-17T02:34:46Z] <Sweets> shellcode is typically written in assembly
[2021-06-17T02:34:52Z] <Sweets> shellcode is an agnostic term though
[2021-06-17T02:34:58Z] <midfavila> well, not sure what that would be then.
[2021-06-17T02:35:34Z] <Sweets> shellcode is code, typically written in assembly, that is used in an exploit to gain something
[2021-06-17T02:35:47Z] <Sweets> like spawn a shell, or thread with escalated privileges, etc
[2021-06-17T02:35:58Z] <midfavila> ...so it's a payload.
[2021-06-17T02:36:03Z] <Sweets> in essence
[2021-06-17T02:36:17Z] <Sweets> It's the payload, yes, but shellcode refers to the actual source of it
[2021-06-17T02:36:35Z] <Sweets> anyways, it's pain
[2021-06-17T02:36:41Z] <midfavila> Yes, I would imagine.
[2021-06-17T02:36:49Z] <midfavila> I didn't particularly enjoy my foray into the realm of assembler.
[2021-06-17T02:37:03Z] <Sweets> lucky me I don't get to write x86 asm
[2021-06-17T02:37:05Z] <Sweets> arm64 asm
[2021-06-17T02:37:53Z] <kimerus> What browser do you use guys?
[2021-06-17T02:37:54Z] <midfavila> i feel like writing asm on an older machine would be a bit more enjoyable. not sure why. probably 'cause they were less complex
[2021-06-17T02:37:59Z] <midfavila> kimerus pale moon
[2021-06-17T02:38:05Z] <midfavila> i saw your post earlier and was gonna mention it to you
[2021-06-17T02:38:05Z] <Sweets> i use google chrome
[2021-06-17T02:38:07Z] <Sweets> like a real hero
[2021-06-17T02:38:14Z] <GalaxyNova> qutebrowser or bust
[2021-06-17T02:38:15Z] <midfavila> become an hero Sweets
[2021-06-17T02:38:15Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-06-17T02:38:23Z] <midfavila> fuckin C h r o m e
[2021-06-17T02:38:26Z] <Sweets> I'd like to
[2021-06-17T02:38:29Z] <Sweets> correct
[2021-06-17T02:38:30Z] <Sweets> chrome
[2021-06-17T02:38:34Z] <Sweets> it's the only sensible browser
[2021-06-17T02:38:41Z] <midfavila> if you're a google shill
[2021-06-17T02:39:02Z] <kimerus> midfavila: why pale moon and not firefox modified?
[2021-06-17T02:39:04Z] <Sweets> or just a normal human being who shaves their neckbeard off when they get small hairs growing in
[2021-06-17T02:39:20Z] <midfavila> imagine not shaving seasonally
[2021-06-17T02:39:33Z] <Sweets> well im required to shave daily
[2021-06-17T02:39:47Z] <Sweets> so I can't imagine
[2021-06-17T02:39:48Z] <midfavila> kimerus because a) mozilla does some weird shit and b) pale moon doesn't require weird workarounds to get running with alsa
[2021-06-17T02:39:57Z] <midfavila> ...that being said,
[2021-06-17T02:40:19Z] <midfavila> UXP browsers, including PM, might be finnicky on musl. I haven't gotten them to work, but I also haven't put much effort into it
[2021-06-17T02:41:17Z] <kimerus> The alsa is okay in my firefox for just sound output
[2021-06-17T02:41:37Z] <kimerus> But pale moon is not too old stuff?
[2021-06-17T02:41:43Z] <midfavila> not really.
[2021-06-17T02:42:03Z] <kimerus> I mean in privacy features?
[2021-06-17T02:42:18Z] <acheam> kimerus: chorizo :)
[2021-06-17T02:42:25Z] <midfavila> I mean, I have no complaints with it. Although I'd recommend you specifically use the Nuegia fork
[2021-06-17T02:42:29Z] <midfavila> acheam silence, S H I L L
[2021-06-17T02:42:31Z] <acheam> but I use chromium for when I need to use webrtc and stuff
[2021-06-17T02:42:53Z] <acheam> midfavila: none shalt stop my shameless self promotion
[2021-06-17T02:43:05Z] * midfavila notices ur browser
[2021-06-17T02:43:10Z] <acheam> uwu
[2021-06-17T02:43:12Z] <midfavila> owo..?
[2021-06-17T02:43:17Z] <Sweets> using any browser that isn't google chrome or chromium if you do web development is actually just a sign of decaying neurons
[2021-06-17T02:43:24Z] <Sweets> if you don't do web dev though, free range
[2021-06-17T02:43:26Z] <midfavila> says the Mac user
[2021-06-17T02:43:28Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-06-17T02:43:32Z] <acheam> Sweets: what?
[2021-06-17T02:43:33Z] <acheam> why?
[2021-06-17T02:43:34Z] <Sweets> correct. and the former web developer.
[2021-06-17T02:43:41Z] <midfavila> *and* a former webdev
[2021-06-17T02:43:45Z] <midfavila> opinions discarded
[2021-06-17T02:43:53Z] <Sweets> acheam: Chromium had the best dev tools there is
[2021-06-17T02:43:58Z] <acheam> false
[2021-06-17T02:43:58Z] <Sweets> for example, websocket packet inspection
[2021-06-17T02:44:01Z] <kimerus> False
[2021-06-17T02:44:02Z] <Sweets> wasn't a thing at all in firefox
[2021-06-17T02:44:05Z] <Sweets> Not false
[2021-06-17T02:44:12Z] <acheam> well, depends on the webdev you do
[2021-06-17T02:44:13Z] <midfavila> if you want packet inspection, I have a suggestion
[2021-06-17T02:44:15Z] <Sweets> And memory regions that can be used
[2021-06-17T02:44:18Z] <midfavila> use a packet analyzer
[2021-06-17T02:44:21Z] <acheam> for me, the Firefox webdev tools are the best
[2021-06-17T02:44:23Z] <kimerus> People tell me firefox is more for webdev
[2021-06-17T02:44:34Z] <Sweets> People have never worked with websockets then
[2021-06-17T02:44:37Z] <midfavila> web browsers in general are ass
[2021-06-17T02:44:39Z] <Sweets> Firefox is better now though, admittedly
[2021-06-17T02:44:46Z] <Sweets> It was much worse when I was a web dev
[2021-06-17T02:44:54Z] <Sweets> Like, its magnitudes better
[2021-06-17T02:45:00Z] <Sweets> ...now
[2021-06-17T02:45:23Z] <acheam> the WebKit tools suck though
[2021-06-17T02:45:38Z] <midfavila> the webkit tools never even worked for me
[2021-06-17T02:45:39Z] <Sweets> I don't know the state of FF now for some features though, like saving mapped memory to the disk for a site
[2021-06-17T02:46:08Z] <Sweets> or another really useful tool, chrome has the ability to render any given webpage on a mobile device by just plugging it into the computer with dev tools open
[2021-06-17T02:46:20Z] <Sweets> so you can see a page, even if it's a local file and not on a server, on your phone
[2021-06-17T02:46:23Z] <Sweets> really useful
[2021-06-17T02:46:33Z] <midfavila> that reminds me
[2021-06-17T02:46:38Z] <Sweets> but again, idk about FF now, and don't really care anymore
[2021-06-17T02:46:45Z] <Sweets> also what's wrong with a mac
[2021-06-17T02:47:00Z] <midfavila> why the fuck do websites not respect requests for *specifically* desktop mode or mobile mode sites
[2021-06-17T02:47:12Z] <Sweets> Because there's not any actual standardization for that
[2021-06-17T02:47:25Z] <midfavila> gay. the W3C or whatever needs to get on that
[2021-06-17T02:47:32Z] <Sweets> Some websites do desktop and mobile modes based on device view ports, some based on user agents
[2021-06-17T02:47:39Z] <Sweets> even worse, some do it based on the JS env
[2021-06-17T02:47:47Z] <midfavila> user-agents are going to give me an aneurysm
[2021-06-17T02:47:55Z] <midfavila> "oh, we don't recognize your UA? fuck off."
[2021-06-17T02:48:17Z] <Sweets> User agents are just a very aged solution to a persistent problem
[2021-06-17T02:48:26Z] <midfavila> the more I deal with shitty sites that filter UAs and/or use CloudFlare the angrier I get
[2021-06-17T02:48:31Z] <Sweets> User agents did not age well, at all
[2021-06-17T02:48:39Z] <midfavila> the Web hasn't aged well
[2021-06-17T02:48:48Z] <midfavila> mostly because people are trying to turn it into a universal platform
[2021-06-17T02:48:50Z] <Sweets> Linux hasn't aged well
[2021-06-17T02:48:57Z] <midfavila> i mean
[2021-06-17T02:49:02Z] <midfavila> unix in general is literally boomer-tier
[2021-06-17T02:49:21Z] <Sweets> ok boomer
[2021-06-17T02:49:28Z] <midfavila> ideally we'd all be using BeOS or P9 or some shit
[2021-06-17T02:49:43Z] <Sweets> i'll stick with windows and macos, thanks
[2021-06-17T02:49:49Z] <midfavila> cringe.
[2021-06-17T02:49:51Z] <Sweets> it took me like 15 or 16 years to get away from linux
[2021-06-17T02:49:54Z] <kimerus> Cringe
[2021-06-17T02:49:54Z] <Sweets> *nix in general
[2021-06-17T02:50:07Z] <midfavila> >mfw Mac is a unix
[2021-06-17T02:50:16Z] <Sweets> shut your up. but yes, you're correct.
[2021-06-17T02:50:19Z] <Sweets> so I'm still trapped.
[2021-06-17T02:50:23Z] <midfavila> shut you're up*
[2021-06-17T02:50:25Z] <Sweets> someone please sned help.
[2021-06-17T02:50:37Z] <midfavila> help is being rendered
[2021-06-17T02:50:41Z] <midfavila> now overwriting /dev/sda...
[2021-06-17T02:50:45Z] <midfavila> installing CP/M...
[2021-06-17T02:50:51Z] <Sweets> luckily for me /dev/sda doesn't exist
[2021-06-17T02:50:52Z] <Sweets> got em
[2021-06-17T02:51:02Z] <midfavila> OKAY
[2021-06-17T02:51:03Z] <midfavila> real talk
[2021-06-17T02:51:04Z] <Sweets> ./dev/disk0
[2021-06-17T02:51:06Z] <Sweets> what's up
[2021-06-17T02:51:12Z] <midfavila> i went into best buy the other day to buy a controller right
[2021-06-17T02:51:15Z] <Sweets> ye
[2021-06-17T02:51:18Z] <midfavila> 'cuz my buddies irl sometimes come over to play smash
[2021-06-17T02:51:20Z] <midfavila> and anyway
[2021-06-17T02:51:24Z] <midfavila> talk about a culture shock
[2021-06-17T02:51:25Z] <midfavila> like w
[2021-06-17T02:51:28Z] <midfavila> hat the fuck
[2021-06-17T02:51:34Z] <midfavila> has happened to technology in the past five years
[2021-06-17T02:51:34Z] <Sweets> ??
[2021-06-17T02:51:50Z] <midfavila> everything is so fucking thin and locked down
[2021-06-17T02:52:04Z] <midfavila> like, I knew it was bad, but what the hell
[2021-06-17T02:52:11Z] <Sweets> thin is nice, makes things convenient. Locked down, not so much
[2021-06-17T02:52:13Z] <midfavila> and there were tablets that were bigger than my laptop
[2021-06-17T02:52:24Z] <midfavila> and to top it all off,
[2021-06-17T02:52:27Z] <midfavila> they didn't even have controllers
[2021-06-17T02:52:34Z] <Sweets> well fuck double wammy
[2021-06-17T02:52:36Z] <kimerus> You guys do a level of sacarms that in times i think is real
[2021-06-17T02:52:44Z] <midfavila> this isn't sarcasm
[2021-06-17T02:52:50Z] <midfavila> i legit didn't realize things were like this
[2021-06-17T02:52:54Z] <midfavila> like, another time,
[2021-06-17T02:52:58Z] <kimerus> A mean you not
[2021-06-17T02:53:01Z] <kimerus> But sweet
[2021-06-17T02:53:01Z] <midfavila> i went into a local thrift store to poke around,
[2021-06-17T02:53:14Z] <midfavila> and started talking with one of the employees about some of the laptops they had on display
[2021-06-17T02:53:31Z] <Sweets> who said I was being sarcastic about what I said kimerus
[2021-06-17T02:53:35Z] <midfavila> and I enquired what the expansion specs were like, such as RAM capacity, disk interface, PCI-e slots, etc
[2021-06-17T02:53:37Z] <Sweets> what do you think I was being sarcastic about lol
[2021-06-17T02:53:42Z] <midfavila> and I was then informed that, and I quote,
[2021-06-17T02:53:47Z] <kimerus> Windows stuff
[2021-06-17T02:53:50Z] <Sweets> ????
[2021-06-17T02:53:53Z] <Sweets> I use windows
[2021-06-17T02:53:54Z] <Sweets> lol
[2021-06-17T02:53:59Z] <midfavila> "laptops haven't used mPCIe for like five years, dude"
[2021-06-17T02:54:02Z] <Sweets> switched from linux to windows
[2021-06-17T02:54:06Z] <kimerus> Is not real for me
[2021-06-17T02:54:09Z] <kimerus> lol
[2021-06-17T02:54:20Z] <Sweets> well it's reality
[2021-06-17T02:54:24Z] <midfavila> lies
[2021-06-17T02:54:27Z] <midfavila> this is a simulation
[2021-06-17T02:54:34Z] <Sweets> :(
[2021-06-17T02:54:36Z] <midfavila> elongated muskrat said so
[2021-06-17T02:54:37Z] <kimerus> Yeah its sounds better
[2021-06-17T02:54:59Z] <Sweets> here's a heart breaker, for those that like hummingbird
[2021-06-17T02:55:04Z] <Sweets> it was developer primarily on windows
[2021-06-17T02:55:06Z] <Sweets> get hurt
[2021-06-17T02:55:14Z] <GalaxyNova> NOOOoooOOOoooooo
[2021-06-17T02:55:15Z] <midfavila> yeah well
[2021-06-17T02:55:18Z] <midfavila> get a dictionary
[2021-06-17T02:55:19Z] <midfavila> nerd
[2021-06-17T02:55:27Z] <Sweets> you're a nerd
[2021-06-17T02:55:28Z] <Sweets> nerd.
[2021-06-17T02:55:30Z] <midfavila> i mean, yes
[2021-06-17T02:55:33Z] <midfavila> whole-heartedly
[2021-06-17T02:55:35Z] <Sweets> yeah
[2021-06-17T02:55:36Z] <Sweets> got em
[2021-06-17T02:55:46Z] <midfavila> you can't knock down what never stood up
[2021-06-17T02:55:48Z] * midfavila dabs
[2021-06-17T02:55:48Z] <GalaxyNova> Sweets: What? You develop things on windows??? Windows is dead use doors ;)
[2021-06-17T02:55:52Z] <GalaxyNova> I use door btw
[2021-06-17T02:56:02Z] <Sweets> I would say some other project, but I don't think anyone who uses kiss is the same crowd using my other projects
[2021-06-17T02:56:05Z] <Sweets> very little overlap
[2021-06-17T02:56:09Z] <Sweets> I actually use floors
[2021-06-17T02:56:13Z] <Sweets> got dunked on
[2021-06-17T02:56:23Z] <midfavila> got dunkereedooed
[2021-06-17T02:56:30Z] <midfavila> fuck lincox users btfo
[2021-06-17T02:56:39Z] <necromansy> i dont really have much usage for windows these days
[2021-06-17T02:56:43Z] <midfavila> same ngl
[2021-06-17T02:56:52Z] <GalaxyNova> Windows is funny
[2021-06-17T02:56:57Z] <midfavila> windows isn't funny
[2021-06-17T02:56:59Z] <kimerus> Its a joke for me because what the hell a windows guy is ins such fucking place like this
[2021-06-17T02:57:01Z] <midfavila> it's infuriating
[2021-06-17T02:57:07Z] <GalaxyNova> Guys
[2021-06-17T02:57:11Z] <GalaxyNova> Whanna hear a joke?
[2021-06-17T02:57:12Z] <kimerus> I mean this is the deep of linux
[2021-06-17T02:57:13Z] <midfavila> don't assume my gender
[2021-06-17T02:57:15Z] <GalaxyNova> _Windows Server_
[2021-06-17T02:57:21Z] <GalaxyNova> HAHAHAHA
[2021-06-17T02:57:22Z] <kimerus> OH GOD LOL
[2021-06-17T02:57:28Z] <Sweets> kimerus that's what you think, but I'm deep everywhere
[2021-06-17T02:57:31Z] <midfavila> that's not a joke, that's just my college curriculum
[2021-06-17T02:57:35Z] <Sweets> I grew up on linux, unfortunately
[2021-06-17T02:57:44Z] <Sweets> so that's how I got this far in
[2021-06-17T02:57:50Z] <midfavila> man I wish I had tried Linux when I was younger
[2021-06-17T02:57:50Z] <Sweets> and one day dylan told me he was making a distro
[2021-06-17T02:57:55Z] <Sweets> and then it was all down hill from there
[2021-06-17T02:57:57Z] <Sweets> now im here
[2021-06-17T02:57:58Z] <GalaxyNova> Sweets: ungrateful xD
[2021-06-17T02:57:59Z] <Sweets> hello
[2021-06-17T02:58:01Z] <Sweets> im windows user
[2021-06-17T02:58:02Z] <kimerus> Sweets: oh this sounds gay man
[2021-06-17T02:58:03Z] <Sweets> and macos user
[2021-06-17T02:58:14Z] <midfavila> i only started with linux when I was like fifteen or something
[2021-06-17T02:58:19Z] <midfavila> fully switches around seventeen
[2021-06-17T02:58:20Z] <GalaxyNova> I am 15 now
[2021-06-17T02:58:22Z] <midfavila> switched*
[2021-06-17T02:58:24Z] <GalaxyNova> I started last year
[2021-06-17T02:58:25Z] <necromansy> unironically why do you prefer windows?
[2021-06-17T02:58:28Z] <necromansy> also damn kids
[2021-06-17T02:58:29Z] <necromansy> ree
[2021-06-17T02:58:35Z] <midfavila> silence boomer
[2021-06-17T02:58:39Z] <midfavila> go write a FFT library
[2021-06-17T02:58:51Z] * necromansy actually was going to
[2021-06-17T02:58:55Z] <Sweets> Got tired of babysitting my system. That, and I could go on and on about my distaste with Linux. At the end of the day, ignorance really is bliss after all.
[2021-06-17T02:59:08Z] <midfavila> that's a fair complaint
[2021-06-17T02:59:11Z] <GalaxyNova> > kiss u
[2021-06-17T02:59:12Z] <kimerus> I 20 now and started in linux last year
[2021-06-17T02:59:17Z] <Sweets> also how old is everyone
[2021-06-17T02:59:20Z] <kimerus> Just a 18 fucking kid
[2021-06-17T02:59:21Z] <necromansy> 26
[2021-06-17T02:59:29Z] <GalaxyNova> wow that's old
[2021-06-17T02:59:31Z] <midfavila> rn I'm nineteen
[2021-06-17T02:59:34Z] <necromansy> heck off kid
[2021-06-17T02:59:37Z] <Sweets> 21
[2021-06-17T02:59:41Z] <Sweets> like a real hero
[2021-06-17T02:59:42Z] <midfavila> ancient
[2021-06-17T02:59:47Z] <Sweets> cunt
[2021-06-17T02:59:55Z] <midfavila> actually I'm more of a goat
[2021-06-17T02:59:58Z] <acheam> 17
[2021-06-17T02:59:58Z] <Sweets> goat
[2021-06-17T03:00:08Z] <midfavila> acheam bab
[2021-06-17T03:00:12Z] <midfavila> smol potat
[2021-06-17T03:00:22Z] <Sweets> galaxy is smol potat bab
[2021-06-17T03:00:27Z] <necromansy> am i the oldest here god damn
[2021-06-17T03:00:28Z] <acheam> bruh youre 2 years older than me
[2021-06-17T03:00:30Z] <midfavila> mash the potat
[2021-06-17T03:00:35Z] <Sweets> yeah you are grandpa
[2021-06-17T03:00:35Z] <acheam> noooooo
[2021-06-17T03:00:41Z] <GalaxyNova> dylin is like 45 or smt
[2021-06-17T03:00:47Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2021-06-17T03:00:47Z] <GalaxyNova> dilyn*
[2021-06-17T03:00:49Z] <kimerus> Dylin is 100
[2021-06-17T03:00:50Z] <acheam> webkit2gtk buold fails :( https://0x0.st/-9ix.txt
[2021-06-17T03:00:57Z] <Sweets> dylin is the ship name of dylan and dilyn
[2021-06-17T03:01:04Z] <midfavila> okay but
[2021-06-17T03:01:05Z] <midfavila> who's the top
[2021-06-17T03:01:15Z] <Sweets> definitely dylan
[2021-06-17T03:01:20Z] <acheam> dilyn ofc
[2021-06-17T03:01:32Z] <kimerus> dilyn
[2021-06-17T03:01:39Z] <GalaxyNova> I can never spell his name
[2021-06-17T03:01:41Z] <acheam> dilyn literally kidnapped dylan
[2021-06-17T03:01:43Z] <Sweets> I don't know dilyn well enough, but dylan lives out on a boat in greece
[2021-06-17T03:01:46Z] <Sweets> so dylan wins
[2021-06-17T03:01:52Z] <midfavila> >dylan has a boat
[2021-06-17T03:01:57Z] <midfavila> tell him that that's based
[2021-06-17T03:02:07Z] <GalaxyNova> what's based /s
[2021-06-17T03:02:15Z] <GalaxyNova> based on what
[2021-06-17T03:02:20Z] <Sweets> based on windows 95
[2021-06-17T03:02:25Z] <midfavila> 3.1*
[2021-06-17T03:02:30Z] <GalaxyNova> pfff
[2021-06-17T03:02:32Z] <kimerus> if dylan has a boat he is ancap
[2021-06-17T03:02:33Z] <GalaxyNova> MS DOS
[2021-06-17T03:02:37Z] <kimerus> live in the ocean
[2021-06-17T03:02:39Z] <Sweets> I really don't want to keep writing shellcode
[2021-06-17T03:02:43Z] <Sweets> im IN PAIN
[2021-06-17T03:02:47Z] <Sweets> someone please call 911
[2021-06-17T03:02:52Z] <necromansy> write c
[2021-06-17T03:02:53Z] <GalaxyNova> shell code or shellcode
[2021-06-17T03:02:58Z] * midfavila dials 911 on the microwave
[2021-06-17T03:03:02Z] <kimerus> write rustc
[2021-06-17T03:03:02Z] <acheam> write a shell in c
[2021-06-17T03:03:02Z] <Sweets> I have written plenty of C
[2021-06-17T03:03:03Z] <acheam> boom
[2021-06-17T03:03:04Z] <Sweets> shellcode
[2021-06-17T03:03:06Z] <Sweets> not shell code
[2021-06-17T03:03:26Z] <midfavila> i need to work on K&R some more, on a similar note...
[2021-06-17T03:03:39Z] <midfavila> i picked up a physical copy the other day from my local bookstand
[2021-06-17T03:03:51Z] <GalaxyNova> cool
[2021-06-17T03:03:54Z] <midfavila> but I'm not looking forward to more array manipulation
[2021-06-17T03:03:58Z] <necromansy> i wannna start writing a FORTRAN compiler soon
[2021-06-17T03:04:02Z] <kimerus> i need to steam work in kiss, thats all i need
[2021-06-17T03:04:07Z] <necromansy> but i am many plagued with research
[2021-06-17T03:04:12Z] <acheam> chroot kimerus
[2021-06-17T03:04:16Z] <midfavila> so many plagues
[2021-06-17T03:04:18Z] <midfavila> so little time
[2021-06-17T03:04:20Z] <acheam> or stop using proprietary garbage
[2021-06-17T03:04:23Z] <midfavila> ^
[2021-06-17T03:04:37Z] <midfavila> "your software doesn't run? well just, like, don't use it, bro."
[2021-06-17T03:04:38Z] <kimerus> acheam: chroot just run native games
[2021-06-17T03:04:50Z] <kimerus> Proton stuff simple don't go
[2021-06-17T03:04:50Z] <acheam> then use gkiss
[2021-06-17T03:04:56Z] <kimerus> but man
[2021-06-17T03:04:59Z] <kimerus> glibc
[2021-06-17T03:05:00Z] <Sweets> proprietary isn't garbage :(
[2021-06-17T03:05:05Z] <midfavila> >installs steam
[2021-06-17T03:05:06Z] <kimerus> No glibc never more
[2021-06-17T03:05:08Z] <midfavila> >complains about glibc
[2021-06-17T03:05:20Z] <acheam> kimerus: steam only supports glibc so....
[2021-06-17T03:05:25Z] <kimerus> i know
[2021-06-17T03:05:34Z] <acheam> Sweets: you dont get a say lol
[2021-06-17T03:05:43Z] <midfavila> i'm thinking of pirating all of my games and then wiping my steam account
[2021-06-17T03:05:51Z] <kimerus> man
[2021-06-17T03:05:57Z] <GalaxyNova> I use a non GNU operating system because I want to make a point to the "muh GNU/Linux" people
[2021-06-17T03:06:13Z] <Sweets> acheam: proprietary software has had more of an impact on modern software than F/OSS ever has or ever will though :(((((9
[2021-06-17T03:06:23Z] <midfavila> GalaxyNova the only people who argue about GahnooLoonix either a) have a point on a technical level or b) are shithead redditors
[2021-06-17T03:06:25Z] <kimerus> midfavila: have you looked in Gnu/Linux Pirate?
[2021-06-17T03:06:29Z] <midfavila> either way, there's no point in engaging
[2021-06-17T03:06:38Z] <midfavila> Sweets and look where we are
[2021-06-17T03:06:41Z] <midfavila> up shit creek without a paddle
[2021-06-17T03:06:47Z] <kimerus> They piracy game repo is pretty good
[2021-06-17T03:06:56Z] <Sweets> I whole heartedly blame lennart poettering
[2021-06-17T03:06:59Z] <midfavila> reject modernity, retvrn to z80
[2021-06-17T03:07:03Z] <midfavila> i mean, yes
[2021-06-17T03:07:06Z] <midfavila> lennart is a shithead
[2021-06-17T03:07:16Z] <midfavila> but he's just enabled by red hat
[2021-06-17T03:07:20Z] <midfavila> and therefore IBM
[2021-06-17T03:07:20Z] <GalaxyNova> meh
[2021-06-17T03:07:22Z] <midfavila> it's always IBM
[2021-06-17T03:07:53Z] <GalaxyNova> He's recieved a lot of hate
[2021-06-17T03:08:04Z] <midfavila> because he's a right cunt
[2021-06-17T03:08:26Z] <GalaxyNova> He's just a crazy guy that wants to turn Linux into MacOS
[2021-06-17T03:08:30Z] <GalaxyNova> but like
[2021-06-17T03:08:34Z] <GalaxyNova> no need to send death threats
[2021-06-17T03:08:43Z] <Sweets> hey pal what's wrong with macos
[2021-06-17T03:08:49Z] <midfavila> >apple
[2021-06-17T03:08:58Z] <Sweets> hey pal what's wrong with apple
[2021-06-17T03:09:05Z] <GalaxyNova> >launchd
[2021-06-17T03:09:07Z] <Sweets> they're the best company for privacy
[2021-06-17T03:09:07Z] <midfavila> do you want an actual set of problems
[2021-06-17T03:09:11Z] <midfavila> HAHAHA
[2021-06-17T03:09:13Z] <Sweets> I can't defend launchd actually
[2021-06-17T03:09:30Z] <Sweets> launchd is its own problem
[2021-06-17T03:09:31Z] <midfavila> imagine thinking apple doesn't mine user data as much as google does
[2021-06-17T03:09:44Z] <Sweets> apple doesn't sell it though
[2021-06-17T03:09:50Z] <midfavila> that's hardly better
[2021-06-17T03:09:53Z] <Sweets> apple doesn't even unlock devices for the US FBI
[2021-06-17T03:09:54Z] <midfavila> you should just not touch it
[2021-06-17T03:09:59Z] <GalaxyNova> apple markets everything as "privacy" but they collects as much data as google or microsoft
[2021-06-17T03:10:07Z] <Sweets> again, they don't sell it though
[2021-06-17T03:10:09Z] <GalaxyNova> and i bet they sell it too
[2021-06-17T03:10:15Z] <midfavila> Sweets acting as if that's a good thing is like people who say they build to code
[2021-06-17T03:10:16Z] <midfavila> it's like
[2021-06-17T03:10:16Z] <GalaxyNova> how do you know they don't
[2021-06-17T03:10:16Z] <midfavila> wow
[2021-06-17T03:10:18Z] <midfavila> congratulations
[2021-06-17T03:10:22Z] <midfavila> you do the absolute bare minimum
[2021-06-17T03:10:23Z] <Sweets> I would much rather elect to give a company my information knowing that they wouldn't
[2021-06-17T03:10:24Z] <midfavila> good fucking job
[2021-06-17T03:10:49Z] <GalaxyNova> Sweets: There's no way to know for sure if they are selling data or not
[2021-06-17T03:10:53Z] <Sweets> Galaxy, how do you know they do
[2021-06-17T03:11:03Z] <GalaxyNova> because it'd be stupid to not
[2021-06-17T03:11:16Z] <GalaxyNova> you have to be naive to believe they won't trade in data they already have for money
[2021-06-17T03:11:16Z] <Sweets> why would you assume? Unlike other companies, nowhere in their TOS does it say that they would give your information out
[2021-06-17T03:11:19Z] <Sweets> Not true
[2021-06-17T03:11:21Z] <noocsharp> they could piot tomorrow and start selling it
[2021-06-17T03:11:24Z] <Sweets> they're a trillion dollar company
[2021-06-17T03:11:24Z] <noocsharp> pivot*
[2021-06-17T03:11:26Z] <midfavila> whether they're actively engaging in it or not doesn't matter. there are telemetry features and hardware backdoors in apple hardware and software
[2021-06-17T03:11:29Z] <Sweets> they don't _need_ to sell information
[2021-06-17T03:11:31Z] <midfavila> that in and of itself is enough to not trust them
[2021-06-17T03:11:39Z] <midfavila> ignoring apple's questionable business practices
[2021-06-17T03:11:39Z] <GalaxyNova> Sweets: How do you think they became a trillion dollar company
[2021-06-17T03:11:41Z] <Sweets> that's also still not true
[2021-06-17T03:11:51Z] <Sweets> They don't leave backdoors open
[2021-06-17T03:11:56Z] <GalaxyNova> lmao
[2021-06-17T03:12:00Z] <midfavila> >used x86 chips for the longest time
[2021-06-17T03:12:08Z] <Sweets> They've been taken to court over it BECAUSE of that lol
[2021-06-17T03:12:12Z] <Sweets> by the us govt
[2021-06-17T03:12:17Z] <midfavila> okay, cool
[2021-06-17T03:12:19Z] <midfavila> still don't care
[2021-06-17T03:12:23Z] <Sweets> and yes, but they can't control that much
[2021-06-17T03:12:27Z] <Sweets> well
[2021-06-17T03:12:28Z] <Sweets> they can
[2021-06-17T03:12:31Z] <Sweets> which is why they made M1
[2021-06-17T03:12:38Z] <Sweets> you can just say you don't like apple because you don't like apple lol
[2021-06-17T03:12:44Z] <midfavila> i had an argument with a friend about whether the M1 was an ARM SoC
[2021-06-17T03:12:46Z] <midfavila> and they were like
[2021-06-17T03:12:49Z] <GalaxyNova> also apple locks you into an ecosystem and hardware (and the hardware is getting more locked down with each new release, look at the M1)
[2021-06-17T03:12:51Z] <midfavila> "but it has apple extensions, it's not arm!!!"
[2021-06-17T03:13:00Z] <Sweets> ??? it absolutely is arm lol
[2021-06-17T03:13:02Z] <Sweets> arm64
[2021-06-17T03:13:08Z] <midfavila> ikr
[2021-06-17T03:13:27Z] <GalaxyNova> good luck upgrading your RAM when using an M1 chip
[2021-06-17T03:13:28Z] <midfavila> my response was that AMD doesn't produce non-x86 chips because of MediaNow! or w/e their extensions are
[2021-06-17T03:13:28Z] <Sweets> "locks you into the ecosystem" ???
[2021-06-17T03:13:34Z] <GalaxyNova> the hardware
[2021-06-17T03:13:42Z] <GalaxyNova> you can't use MacOS on hardware other than apple hardware
[2021-06-17T03:13:44Z] <Sweets> nobody is holding a knife to my throat to use their shit lol
[2021-06-17T03:13:45Z] <midfavila> i mean
[2021-06-17T03:13:48Z] <Sweets> yes you can
[2021-06-17T03:13:48Z] <midfavila> you can, Nova
[2021-06-17T03:13:53Z] <midfavila> it's just a massive pita
[2021-06-17T03:13:55Z] <GalaxyNova> hackintosh is a joke
[2021-06-17T03:14:06Z] <GalaxyNova> it has less hardware support than linux
[2021-06-17T03:14:08Z] <Sweets> you have to be baiting rn lmaoooo
[2021-06-17T03:14:18Z] <midfavila> that's because it's developed by Apple for Apple hardware...
[2021-06-17T03:14:21Z] <Sweets> no shit, apple doesn't make drivers for hardware they never use
[2021-06-17T03:14:22Z] <midfavila> what do you expect from Darwin
[2021-06-17T03:14:29Z] <GalaxyNova> yeah exactly
[2021-06-17T03:14:35Z] <GalaxyNova> that's what I meant about locking you in to hardware
[2021-06-17T03:14:40Z] <midfavila> that's like complaining about how QNX doesn't have drivers for things that aren't industrial PLCs
[2021-06-17T03:14:41Z] <midfavila> it's like
[2021-06-17T03:14:42Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2021-06-17T03:14:45Z] <midfavila> no fucking shit
[2021-06-17T03:14:48Z] <midfavila> nobody runs QNX on their PC
[2021-06-17T03:15:00Z] <Sweets> that's not "locking you into hardware", that's called not wasting resources
[2021-06-17T03:15:14Z] <Sweets> they won't spend their money on paying developers to make drivers for hardware they don't use
[2021-06-17T03:15:21Z] <midfavila> apple can get away with not supporting other hardware because they do both hardware and software
[2021-06-17T03:15:27Z] <midfavila> unlike MS, which is mostly software
[2021-06-17T03:15:38Z] <midfavila> and linux, which is entirely software (and not a corp besides, but w/e)
[2021-06-17T03:15:45Z] <Sweets> also, if you want to upgrade ram, you _don't_ get an m1
[2021-06-17T03:15:46Z] <Sweets> like
[2021-06-17T03:15:53Z] <Sweets> that's a concious decision
[2021-06-17T03:16:01Z] <Sweets> in the same way I chose to blow $750 on my desktop processor
[2021-06-17T03:16:07Z] <GalaxyNova> IIRC M1 will be mandatory for future macs?
[2021-06-17T03:16:08Z] <Sweets> I knew what I was getting myself into
[2021-06-17T03:16:09Z] <midfavila> the way RISC machines are built causes me to have a stroke every time I look at it
[2021-06-17T03:16:34Z] <midfavila> they literally just plop a CPU onto an SoC and call it a day. like, *no*
[2021-06-17T03:16:36Z] <Sweets> risc machines are sad. They're so beautiful on paper. but in real life they just... have really good personalities.
[2021-06-17T03:16:40Z] <midfavila> that's not a computer, that's a discount smartphone
[2021-06-17T03:16:48Z] <midfavila> Sweets look at the original ARM machines
[2021-06-17T03:16:51Z] <midfavila> from Acorn
[2021-06-17T03:16:55Z] <midfavila> they're fascinating
[2021-06-17T03:17:01Z] <midfavila> some models even ran dual CPUs
[2021-06-17T03:17:05Z] <midfavila> one ARM, one x86
[2021-06-17T03:17:13Z] <midfavila> and could execute windows in tandem with RiscOS
[2021-06-17T03:17:25Z] <Sweets> interesting
[2021-06-17T03:17:30Z] <midfavila> they even had full expansion busses
[2021-06-17T03:17:35Z] <midfavila> and were as modular as IBM PCs
[2021-06-17T03:18:11Z] * midfavila sighs wistfully
[2021-06-17T03:18:32Z] <midfavila> Oh, Acorn... you were too advanced.
[2021-06-17T03:19:12Z] <midfavila> one of these days I'm going to like
[2021-06-17T03:19:18Z] <midfavila> design my own Lisp machine
[2021-06-17T03:19:24Z] <midfavila> and then go off-grid
[2021-06-17T03:19:35Z] <midfavila> and just pull a Kaczynski
[2021-06-17T03:19:43Z] <GalaxyNova> pull a dylan
[2021-06-17T03:19:45Z] <GalaxyNova> lol
[2021-06-17T03:19:51Z] <midfavila> Dylan is a puny cnile
[2021-06-17T03:20:02Z] <midfavila> cowers before the based (()((()()))()))()()()()()))()()
[2021-06-17T03:20:15Z] <midfavila> disclaimer: I don't actually know his opinions on lisp
[2021-06-17T03:21:06Z] <GalaxyNova> He's been active recently on gh but I don't know if anyone reached out to him about KISS yet
[2021-06-17T03:21:14Z] <midfavila> dylan will come back to KISS if he wants
[2021-06-17T03:21:27Z] <midfavila> i'm sure he's busy
[2021-06-17T03:21:35Z] <GalaxyNova> of course
[2021-06-17T03:22:16Z] <midfavila> gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I need to get back to studying math
[2021-06-17T03:22:25Z] <midfavila> i really want to start with OSSU's CS course...
[2021-06-17T03:22:35Z] <kimerus> Me too
[2021-06-17T03:22:44Z] <kimerus> I hat calculus
[2021-06-17T03:22:53Z] <kimerus> Just wanna do my electronics shit
[2021-06-17T03:23:08Z] <midfavila> a friend of mine has been teaching himself calculus, and another advanced geometry
[2021-06-17T03:23:14Z] <midfavila> gonna ask them to teach me this summer
[2021-06-17T03:23:50Z] <midfavila> i'm moreso interested in calculus, because I don't think I'm going to be writing a 3D graphics engine any time soon
[2021-06-17T03:24:18Z] <kimerus> Im boring in calculus
[2021-06-17T03:24:22Z] <midfavila> although I'm sure there are many more uses for geometry beyond computer graphics. I'm just not aware
[2021-06-17T03:24:43Z] <GalaxyNova> I'm interested in compilers
[2021-06-17T03:25:01Z] <midfavila> bleh, I don't want to think about how compilers work
[2021-06-17T03:25:12Z] <midfavila> the dragon book has no place on my shelf for the time being
[2021-06-17T03:25:17Z] <GalaxyNova> I find it fascinating
[2021-06-17T03:25:33Z] <midfavila> compilers are nifty, sure, but I'd have no idea where to start with one...
[2021-06-17T03:26:19Z] <kimerus> I will graduate in engineer mechatronic
[2021-06-17T03:26:24Z] <Sweets> dylan probably doesn't want to be bothered about kiss
[2021-06-17T03:26:25Z] <GalaxyNova> lisps have the simplest parsers so they are usually the first programming languages you build interpreters / compilers for I believe
[2021-06-17T03:26:25Z] <Sweets> honestly
[2021-06-17T03:26:42Z] <kimerus> I see myself without all calculus bullshit in future
[2021-06-17T03:26:46Z] <midfavila> GalaxyNova yeah, scheme is pretty common from what I've seen
[2021-06-17T03:27:06Z] <midfavila> Sweets makes sense. I imagine building a distro almost entirely from scratch is part of what burned him out
[2021-06-17T03:28:35Z] <Sweets> distro building wasn't what burned him out
[2021-06-17T03:28:46Z] <midfavila> oh?
[2021-06-17T03:28:51Z] <Sweets> I mean, that's part of it, but it most certainly was not the sole reason why
[2021-06-17T03:28:57Z] <midfavila> well, yeah, obvs
[2021-06-17T03:29:14Z] <Sweets> dylan has garnered a very... big following over the years
[2021-06-17T03:29:30Z] <midfavila> the curse of popularity
[2021-06-17T03:29:32Z] <Sweets> not only does he have various projects, kiss one of them, but he also is really the only one actively maintaining all of them
[2021-06-17T03:29:36Z] <Sweets> despite them being so popular
[2021-06-17T03:29:41Z] <midfavila> yeah, I know that much
[2021-06-17T03:29:58Z] <Sweets> plus, dylan had always said one day he'd disappear into some random vertice on the cube earth
[2021-06-17T03:30:26Z] <midfavila> :thinking:
[2021-06-17T03:30:34Z] <GalaxyNova> I mean he's the one that made it clear that there should be only one BDFL for kiss
[2021-06-17T03:30:59Z] <GalaxyNova> it's in the guidestones
[2021-06-17T03:31:36Z] <midfavila> well, anyway, it's half past midnight and I have class tomorrow
[2021-06-17T03:31:41Z] <midfavila> so I'm gonna log off for the night
[2021-06-17T03:31:47Z] <midfavila> always a pleasure chatting with you, Sweets
[2021-06-17T04:02:41Z] <acheam> how do y'all get your batterry levels?
[2021-06-17T04:03:06Z] <acheam> I'm used to using acpi, but can't figure out what provides it
[2021-06-17T04:03:57Z] <necromansy> cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT1/capacity
[2021-06-17T04:05:54Z] <acheam> oh perfect
[2021-06-17T04:05:55Z] <acheam> thanks
[2021-06-17T04:06:28Z] <necromansy> np
[2021-06-17T04:06:33Z] <necromansy> also capacity_level
[2021-06-17T05:19:00Z] <testuser[m]1> Hi
[2021-06-17T05:20:43Z] <acheam> hi testuser[m]1
[2021-06-17T05:33:43Z] <testuser[m]1> Acheam that webshit fail is OOM
[2021-06-17T05:33:59Z] <testuser[m]1> https://0x0.st/-9ix.txt
[2021-06-17T05:42:18Z] <consolers> I'm trying to follow up on a firefox build failure - the only reference i saw on google was a chatlog from here on [2021-06-02T21:25:06Z] by dilyn
[2021-06-17T05:42:31Z] <testuser[m]1> What is it
[2021-06-17T05:42:53Z] <consolers> "error: no matching function for call to 'nsTHashtable<detail::VoidPtrHashKey>::WithEntryHandle(const void*&, const fallible_t&, "
[2021-06-17T05:43:12Z] <testuser[m]1> The full log
[2021-06-17T05:43:46Z] <consolers> i cant make head or tails of the c++ now - just scrounging to see if there was there any resolution.
[2021-06-17T05:44:00Z] <consolers> you mean the link to the log?
[2021-06-17T05:44:21Z] <consolers> build log or irc log?
[2021-06-17T05:49:55Z] <testuser[m]1> Build log
[2021-06-17T09:49:44Z] <testuser[m]1> bruh linking a debug build of webkit fails with a 45MB linker log
[2021-06-17T12:49:47Z] <midfavila> what's up fuckers
[2021-06-17T13:08:52Z] <sad_plan> I couldnt help think about the wazzaaaaaaaaaaaap thingy from years back when I read that. dunno why. in any case, Im at work doing non-work related stuff, as always :p
[2021-06-17T13:09:13Z] * midfavila gets the whip
[2021-06-17T13:09:21Z] <midfavila> wagie, wagie, back in cagie
[2021-06-17T13:09:41Z] <midfavila> your foreman hasn't approved this social interaction
[2021-06-17T13:09:48Z] <midfavila> foreperson*
[2021-06-17T13:11:33Z] * sad_plan refuses to work
[2021-06-17T13:11:37Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2021-06-17T13:11:47Z] <midfavila> really stickin' it to the capitalists
[2021-06-17T13:11:49Z] <midfavila> gj
[2021-06-17T13:12:05Z] <sad_plan> yeah, gotta stick it to the bosses
[2021-06-17T13:12:45Z] <sad_plan> in all honesty, noone seems to care aslong as I do my actuall job, when its demanded, which isnt a whole lot in those 8 hours in which Im at work
[2021-06-17T13:12:51Z] <sad_plan> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2021-06-17T13:13:02Z] <midfavila> that's what it's been like every time I've worked
[2021-06-17T13:13:10Z] <midfavila> s'long as what needs doing gets done nobody really cares
[2021-06-17T13:13:34Z] <midfavila> today in "what the fuck", my xsession-errors file is 80mb
[2021-06-17T13:13:55Z] <sad_plan> indeed. I love that its like that, so I can mess around with kiss all day, and going gods know what, and nobody gives a shit
[2021-06-17T13:13:58Z] <sad_plan> exacly
[2021-06-17T13:14:20Z] <testuser[m]1> What does it say
[2021-06-17T13:14:49Z] <midfavila> it's mostly garbage data... looks like chunks of aplay output
[2021-06-17T13:15:00Z] <midfavila> oh, no, wait, what the hell-
[2021-06-17T13:15:09Z] <sad_plan> tbh, if it hadent been for me doing this, I probably woulndnt have kiss installed in the first place either. but seeing as I have so much time doing non-work, I get to install kiss, and do other kinds of bs :p
[2021-06-17T13:15:09Z] <midfavila> it's got output from my ffplay scripts, too
[2021-06-17T13:15:29Z] <testuser[m]1> Lol
[2021-06-17T13:15:45Z] <sad_plan> tesuser[m: did you look at my last attempt at firefox? 'cause it still doesnt build for me for some reason
[2021-06-17T13:16:05Z] <testuser[m]1> It built for me fine without pgo, weird that lld would just segfault lol
[2021-06-17T13:16:29Z] <sad_plan> yeah. any suggestions? just try again? lol
[2021-06-17T13:17:11Z] <testuser[m]1> Trying again/Turning it off an on again mostly just works on stuff like windows
[2021-06-17T13:17:13Z] <testuser[m]1> No idea
[2021-06-17T13:38:49Z] <sad_plan> yeah, I dont find that to be as true on linux :p
[2021-06-17T14:04:38Z] <riteo> hiiii!
[2021-06-17T14:05:40Z] <testuser[m]1> Hi
[2021-06-17T14:08:05Z] <acheam> testuser[m]1: thanks I already got it built
[2021-06-17T14:08:11Z] <riteo> the prototype download code of my minecraft project is done!
[2021-06-17T14:08:17Z] <acheam> forgot to enable swap
[2021-06-17T15:29:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> man, after a couple days on stumpwm, I think I'm hooked
[2021-06-17T15:29:48Z] <testuser[m]1> Nice
[2021-06-17T15:29:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> much easier to program it than FVWM, uses an *actual programming language*, and it makes much better use of my laptop's limited screen real estate
[2021-06-17T15:30:48Z] <riteo> just looked it up
[2021-06-17T15:30:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's pretty nifty
[2021-06-17T15:30:58Z] <riteo> sounds great!
[2021-06-17T15:31:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> common lisp manual tiler with emacs bindings
[2021-06-17T15:31:21Z] <riteo> > These screenshots are specifically designed to trigger a feverish commitment to stumpwm. If you have a heart condition or are easily whipped into psychotic frenzies please consult your doctor before viewing these pictures.
[2021-06-17T15:31:25Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-06-17T15:32:08Z] <riteo> lisp's interpreted, right?
[2021-06-17T15:32:16Z] <riteo> I wonder how the performance's like
[2021-06-17T15:32:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> not necessarily
[2021-06-17T15:32:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> you can compile lisp
[2021-06-17T15:32:23Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-06-17T15:32:27Z] <midfavila-laptop> and the performance is fine, imo
[2021-06-17T15:32:42Z] <riteo> so lisp can be both interpreted and compiled?
[2021-06-17T15:32:48Z] <midfavila-laptop> although stumpwm uses quite a bit of memory and disk space... but considering it statically compiles a copy of your lisp environment into itself, that's understandable
[2021-06-17T15:32:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> and yeah, that's right
[2021-06-17T15:32:53Z] <riteo> lisp is 100% more based for me now
[2021-06-17T15:32:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> you can also run lisp as bytecode on a VM
[2021-06-17T15:33:03Z] <riteo> super based
[2021-06-17T15:33:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> meaning lisp can be run in browsers
[2021-06-17T15:33:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> :^)
[2021-06-17T15:33:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> JSlets btfo
[2021-06-17T15:33:17Z] <riteo> talking about js
[2021-06-17T15:33:30Z] <riteo> do you want to see the most clownish page I ever found?
[2021-06-17T15:33:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> i won't be able to view it
[2021-06-17T15:33:51Z] <riteo> I'll send you screenshots
[2021-06-17T15:33:52Z] <riteo> https://galacticraft.team/
[2021-06-17T15:34:03Z] <riteo> no wait I don't need to
[2021-06-17T15:34:16Z] <riteo> open it and read carefully the nojs message
[2021-06-17T15:34:30Z] <riteo> do you know what happens when you run their "app"?
[2021-06-17T15:34:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> >app
[2021-06-17T15:34:35Z] <midfavila-laptop> it renders the page
[2021-06-17T15:34:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> idk
[2021-06-17T15:34:37Z] <riteo> nono
[2021-06-17T15:34:40Z] <riteo> I mean
[2021-06-17T15:34:42Z] <riteo> it renders the page
[2021-06-17T15:34:45Z] <riteo> but it says this: Site in development.
[2021-06-17T15:34:46Z] <riteo> Please checkout our Github in the meantime.
[2021-06-17T15:34:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> one of my friends uses JS to render plaintext on their page
[2021-06-17T15:34:57Z] <riteo> that's it, on a black recangle
[2021-06-17T15:34:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> for reference, most of their site is plaintext
[2021-06-17T15:35:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> amazing
[2021-06-17T15:35:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> make a commit telling them that they've posted cringe
[2021-06-17T15:35:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> and will lose followers
[2021-06-17T15:35:31Z] <riteo> no wait, that's not even a rectangle, that was dark reader
[2021-06-17T15:35:37Z] <riteo> it's literally a gray background
[2021-06-17T15:36:10Z] <riteo> I just can't
[2021-06-17T15:36:14Z] <riteo> here's the screenshot: http://0x0.st/-9Xk.png
[2021-06-17T15:36:33Z] <riteo> that's it, that's their "app", I had to run JS to see this
[2021-06-17T15:36:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah, that's pretty garbage
[2021-06-17T15:36:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> tell them to go browse neocities for inspiration
[2021-06-17T15:37:19Z] <riteo> I wish they did
[2021-06-17T15:37:35Z] <riteo> but they'll surely eventually make a "fancy" website with useless js animations and menus
[2021-06-17T15:37:56Z] <riteo> the fact that I get surprised when a website implements these things without js is worrying
[2021-06-17T15:38:21Z] <testuser[m]1> > You need to enable JavaScript to run this app.
[2021-06-17T15:38:35Z] <testuser[m]1> Why is it so hard for these idiots to just let me read text on their broken page
[2021-06-17T15:38:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> because
[2021-06-17T15:38:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> that breaks the Experience:tm:
[2021-06-17T15:38:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> browsing the internet isn't about exchanging information
[2021-06-17T15:39:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's about Experiencing:tm: Content:r:
[2021-06-17T15:39:25Z] <riteo> a browser is just a "safe" VM to download and run random programs hyperlinked
[2021-06-17T15:39:35Z] <riteo> it isn't HyperText anymore, it's HyperPrograms
[2021-06-17T15:39:46Z] <riteo> HPTP when
[2021-06-17T15:40:42Z] <riteo> for most people their OS is just a way to run a browser
[2021-06-17T15:40:58Z] <riteo> at this point they could make an OS that's just a browser
[2021-06-17T15:41:01Z] <riteo> oh wait
[2021-06-17T15:41:15Z] <riteo> they did
[2021-06-17T15:41:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> http://0x0.st/-9X7.png
[2021-06-17T15:41:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> current stumpwm setup if anyone wants to peek
[2021-06-17T15:41:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's kind of basic rn
[2021-06-17T15:42:18Z] <riteo> cool!
[2021-06-17T15:42:22Z] <testuser[m]1> Nice
[2021-06-17T15:42:25Z] <riteo> btw mid did you hear the news
[2021-06-17T15:42:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> Depends on what news.
[2021-06-17T15:42:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> 'sup?
[2021-06-17T15:42:37Z] <riteo> I'm making a POSIX shell minecraft launcher with multiple instances support
[2021-06-17T15:43:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's neat ig
[2021-06-17T15:43:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> never was really into minecraft
[2021-06-17T15:43:09Z] <riteo> I've already finished a prototype version of the download and validation code for when the remote assets change
[2021-06-17T15:43:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's cool
[2021-06-17T15:43:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm thinking of putting my shellcode studies on hold for a while... LISP is enticing
[2021-06-17T15:43:53Z] <riteo> oh mid you didn't hear the best part
[2021-06-17T15:44:05Z] <riteo> every instance has a package manager
[2021-06-17T15:44:10Z] * midfavila-laptop sighs
[2021-06-17T15:44:11Z] <riteo> and by a package manager I mean kiss
[2021-06-17T15:44:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> Go sit in the corner, Riteo, and think about what you've done.
[2021-06-17T15:44:25Z] <riteo> mid you have no idea how painful is modding
[2021-06-17T15:44:32Z] <testuser[m]1> Wdym instance
[2021-06-17T15:44:33Z] <riteo> I compile everything from source
[2021-06-17T15:44:42Z] <riteo> testuser[m]1: Have you ever heard of MultiMC?
[2021-06-17T15:44:55Z] <testuser[m]1> Yeah but only the name
[2021-06-17T15:45:02Z] <riteo> basically there's only one minecraft installation usually, with configurable saving locations
[2021-06-17T15:45:02Z] <schillingklaus> you will be stumped
[2021-06-17T15:45:17Z] <riteo> MultiMC completely ditches that and creates brand new data folders for each profile
[2021-06-17T15:45:23Z] <testuser[m]1> Oh
[2021-06-17T15:45:24Z] <testuser[m]1> Nice
[2021-06-17T15:45:27Z] <riteo> so you can have two modded versions and whatever
[2021-06-17T15:45:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> real men play dwarf fortress
[2021-06-17T15:45:32Z] <riteo> the main point is though
[2021-06-17T15:45:45Z] <riteo> I hate compiling from source every mod, so I'm using kiss to automate that
[2021-06-17T15:46:02Z] <riteo> it works surprisingly well, I literally don't have to do any change to it
[2021-06-17T15:46:10Z] <riteo> dylan's really a genius
[2021-06-17T15:47:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, s'long as it's a posix environ, it'll work
[2021-06-17T15:47:17Z] <riteo> I can confirm
[2021-06-17T15:47:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's the magic of intercompatibility standards
[2021-06-17T15:47:26Z] <riteo> mid hold yourself
[2021-06-17T15:47:31Z] <riteo> I installed kiss on arch linux
[2021-06-17T15:47:35Z] <midfavila-laptop> C-g 5?
[2021-06-17T15:47:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> oh
[2021-06-17T15:47:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> acheam already did that
[2021-06-17T15:47:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> nice try though
[2021-06-17T15:47:57Z] <riteo> oh I didn't know that
[2021-06-17T15:48:02Z] <riteo> they asked me for my pkgbuild
[2021-06-17T15:48:35Z] <midfavila-laptop> i remember the days when I used Arch like a semi-sane human being
[2021-06-17T15:49:03Z] <testuser[m]1> What are you nkw
[2021-06-17T15:49:05Z] <testuser[m]1> Now
[2021-06-17T15:49:07Z] <riteo> a monster
[2021-06-17T15:49:09Z] <acheam> I was just curious
[2021-06-17T15:49:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> i was already a monster riteo
[2021-06-17T15:49:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> smh
[2021-06-17T15:49:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> we've been over this
[2021-06-17T15:49:28Z] <testuser[m]1> An insane monster then ?
[2021-06-17T15:49:34Z] <riteo> I didn't know you were one on Arch too
[2021-06-17T15:49:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> as for what I am now, I'm a slightly less sane monster
[2021-06-17T15:49:55Z] <riteo> I thought you gone through a daft punk like transformation with some server hardware
[2021-06-17T15:50:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's really more like Lain
[2021-06-17T15:50:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> where my setup becomes progressively more autistic
[2021-06-17T15:50:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> i haven't acquired liquid carbon cooling yet though
[2021-06-17T15:50:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> Soon:tm:
[2021-06-17T15:50:30Z] <riteo> I think that the worst part is when you start tinkering with the current OS to mimick your future installation
[2021-06-17T15:50:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's just good planning
[2021-06-17T15:51:11Z] <riteo> yeah but eventually everything just collapses
[2021-06-17T15:51:41Z] <riteo> For example at the start I was like: "Oh, I'll switch to Linux later" *Turns Windows into a UNIX-y abomination* *drivers die and needs a new fresh install* "fuck"
[2021-06-17T15:51:52Z] <riteo> s/needs/need/
[2021-06-17T15:52:20Z] <riteo> no wait why did I correct myself
[2021-06-17T15:52:21Z] <riteo> revert
[2021-06-17T15:52:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's just part of learning
[2021-06-17T15:52:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> too late
[2021-06-17T15:52:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> you've already lost subscribble
[2021-06-17T15:52:40Z] <riteo> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[2021-06-17T15:52:48Z] * riteo dies of engrish
[2021-06-17T15:53:30Z] <riteo> mhh, I was thinking to call my project minekiss
[2021-06-17T15:54:21Z] <riteo> fun fact: although it's meant to run on kiss it can't yet, since there's no jre-16 package available
[2021-06-17T15:54:42Z] <riteo> It's part of my plan though
[2021-06-17T15:55:04Z] <riteo> minecraft is making me do a lot of stuff for kiss: musl-compatible drivers, java 16 and minecraft
[2021-06-17T15:56:07Z] <riteo> oh god
[2021-06-17T15:56:22Z] <riteo> minecraft native libraries are OBVIOUSLY linked to glibc
[2021-06-17T15:56:59Z] <riteo> now I have to either use gcompat or detect the native libraries and ask the user to compile and install them somehow there
[2021-06-17T15:58:05Z] <riteo> why the fuck do you have to name your symbol "free@GLIBC_2.2.5"?
[2021-06-17T15:58:09Z] <riteo> is it a readelf thing?
[2021-06-17T16:00:33Z] <testuser[m]1> Btw i like how the reactjs site itself works mostly OK without js but anything using that shit doesn't even load lol
[2021-06-17T16:01:46Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-06-17T16:07:15Z] <acheam> riteo: don't you need Java 8?
[2021-06-17T16:08:37Z] <testuser[m]1> riteo i think it just tells the specific glibc version it was built against but the symbol can be from a newer version too
[2021-06-17T16:08:42Z] <testuser[m]1> Btw what happened to the nvidia drivers
[2021-06-17T16:09:05Z] <riteo> testuser[m]1: I'm installing the packages rn chrooting to the USB drive
[2021-06-17T16:09:19Z] <riteo> I kinda distracted myself with this minecraft thing, but I'm working on it
[2021-06-17T16:09:29Z] <riteo> it's been compiling for a while
[2021-06-17T16:10:44Z] <riteo> testuser[m]1: do you think that the symbols marked with @glibc that are available un musl too might work?
[2021-06-17T16:10:49Z] <riteo> s/un/on/
[2021-06-17T16:11:25Z] <testuser[m]1> Probably
[2021-06-17T16:14:43Z] <riteo> we'll see soon
[2021-06-17T16:15:13Z] <testuser[m]1> ™
[2021-06-17T16:16:40Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-06-17T16:16:47Z] <riteo> I mean, it's summer and I don't work
[2021-06-17T16:17:04Z] <riteo> I got literally nothing to do
[2021-06-17T16:17:31Z] <riteo> oh my god, I put two cores because I was doing stuff on my pc but it's compiling llvm now
[2021-06-17T16:19:12Z] <testuser[m]1> <riteo "I mean, it's summer and I don't "> Same
[2021-06-17T16:19:13Z] <testuser[m]1> Lol
[2021-06-17T16:21:22Z] <riteo> nice
[2021-06-17T16:21:59Z] <riteo> I'm really scared for my pc regarding LLVM
[2021-06-17T16:22:15Z] <riteo> will it eat my memory?
[2021-06-17T16:22:39Z] <testuser[m]1> Just install repo-bin
[2021-06-17T16:22:43Z] <riteo> I remember building something related to rocm and llvm and I literally had to make a 50 GB swap to be sure it wouldn't crash
[2021-06-17T16:23:01Z] <riteo> testuser[m]1: good idea
[2021-06-17T16:32:23Z] <riteo> it says checksum mismatch
[2021-06-17T16:33:35Z] <testuser[m]1> Weird
[2021-06-17T16:33:44Z] <testuser[m]1> Can you untsr it manually ? If not then its corrupt
[2021-06-17T16:33:47Z] <testuser[m]1> Untar
[2021-06-17T16:34:43Z] <riteo> yep, I can untar it fine
[2021-06-17T16:34:52Z] <riteo> I think I'll regenerate the checksum
[2021-06-17T16:35:13Z] <riteo> it built successfully
[2021-06-17T16:36:14Z] <riteo> I can't connect with SSL to https://jenkins.armaanb.net/job/kiss-community/, I wonder if it's connected with this
[2021-06-17T16:36:26Z] <riteo> has anybody installed llvm from repo-bin before?
[2021-06-17T16:36:37Z] <riteo> like, in these 6 months from the last commit?
[2021-06-17T16:37:14Z] <testuser[m]1> Huh
[2021-06-17T16:37:18Z] <testuser[m]1> Check the new repo. Ruh
[2021-06-17T16:37:21Z] <acheam> uhhh
[2021-06-17T16:37:24Z] <acheam> run a git pull
[2021-06-17T16:37:43Z] <acheam> you're using something like 10 months old
[2021-06-17T16:40:10Z] <riteo> ermh
[2021-06-17T16:40:10Z] <riteo> https://github.com/ArmaanB/repo-bin
[2021-06-17T16:40:16Z] <riteo> this is the repo, right?
[2021-06-17T16:40:25Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-06-17T16:40:28Z] <riteo> there's a new one
[2021-06-17T16:41:27Z] <riteo> I forgot there was an official one now lmao
[2021-06-17T16:42:03Z] <riteo> oh acheam I just read now your message regarding java
[2021-06-17T16:42:18Z] <riteo> finally mojang updated to java 1.16 in 1.17 (which came like 1-2 weeks ago)
[2021-06-17T16:42:27Z] <riteo> s/1.16/16/
[2021-06-17T16:43:03Z] <riteo> oh also they bumped their opengl version too
[2021-06-17T16:43:32Z] <riteo> a huge release for the based modders and a very big mess for the cringe ones
[2021-06-17T16:44:32Z] <riteo> now I literally have to use obfuscated mappings for my weird packet-based reflection thing on bukkit because they want to switch to the "official mappings" (aka. stupidly licensed symbols)
[2021-06-17T16:45:17Z] <illiliti> if someone having trouble with connecting to wifi using eiwd, read this -> https://github.com/illiliti/eiwd/issues/1
[2021-06-17T16:45:30Z] <illiliti> it took me 2 hours to debug it lol
[2021-06-17T16:48:36Z] <riteo> debugging a thing for a long time is satisfacting though
[2021-06-17T16:48:49Z] <riteo> the new binary llvm package built fine, epic
[2021-06-17T16:50:33Z] <illiliti> iwd may be affected by this bug too btw
[2021-06-17T16:51:11Z] <illiliti> but i don't have a environment with dbus to confirm
[2021-06-17T17:22:47Z] <riteo> ugh I hate when my pc does that
[2021-06-17T17:23:17Z] <riteo> its fans suddenly scream, my screen becomes black and my pants brown
[2021-06-17T17:26:29Z] <omanom> illiliti geez nice find, that looks like it was a pain to figure out
[2021-06-17T17:55:55Z] <sad_plan> testuser: I did a rebuild of ff again, and clang for some reason now has a segmentation fault. ive rebuilt clang, but made no difference on my end anyway. heres the log: https://0x0.st/-9KS.txt
[2021-06-17T17:56:28Z] <riteo> firefox is too strong for clang
[2021-06-17T17:57:11Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2021-06-17T17:57:28Z] <sad_plan> firefox is not having it, with me wanting to have LTO stuff on my kiss install appearantly :p
[2021-06-17T18:00:00Z] <testuser[m]1> Isnt that the same error
[2021-06-17T18:00:23Z] <sad_plan> I dont think so. hold on, Ill fetch the previous link
[2021-06-17T18:01:56Z] <sad_plan> no, heres the log before this one https://0x0.st/-9z_.txt
[2021-06-17T18:02:12Z] <sad_plan> wait, it is the same
[2021-06-17T18:03:42Z] <testuser[m]1> I guess you could ./mach build -v then fetch the line where it segfaults then gdb /usr/bin/clang with all those args and see where the segfault is
[2021-06-17T18:03:45Z] <testuser[m]1> Other than that idk
[2021-06-17T18:04:01Z] <testuser[m]1> You sure its using lld ?
[2021-06-17T18:06:06Z] <sad_plan> I dont belive I use lld. tbh im not even sure what that is. i recall dylin asking the same aswell, probably about ff that time aswell :p
[2021-06-17T18:06:22Z] <sad_plan> i have lld installed
[2021-06-17T18:07:01Z] <testuser[m]1> You have the kiss hook right
[2021-06-17T18:07:58Z] <sad_plan> export KISS_HOOK=/home/wololo/repositories/kissLTO/kiss-hook. < is in my kiss_path. so yeah
[2021-06-17T18:09:30Z] <sad_plan> I also have this hook http://0x0.st/-9KW.txt
[2021-06-17T18:10:03Z] <sad_plan> its from the website. is there any reason to belive theyre interfering with eachother?
[2021-06-17T18:15:06Z] <sad_plan> where exacly was I suppose to ./mach build -v? in the buildscript for ff?
[2021-06-17T18:15:47Z] <sad_plan> ah, I belive I found it.
[2021-06-17T18:15:58Z] <testuser[m]1> No don't do it
[2021-06-17T18:16:13Z] <sad_plan> the line with ./xvfb-run ./mach build? and just add -v?
[2021-06-17T18:16:46Z] <testuser[m]1> It was just an exaggerated way for me to say there's no sane way to debug it
[2021-06-17T18:17:09Z] <sad_plan> so im dead in the water with this? :p
[2021-06-17T18:17:14Z] <testuser[m]1> Hmm i don't remember if i tested the latest ff on musl but the previous few worked for sure
[2021-06-17T18:17:15Z] <testuser[m]1> Yeah
[2021-06-17T18:17:53Z] <testuser[m]1> You've merged both these hooks into one right ?
[2021-06-17T18:18:25Z] <testuser[m]1> Re debugging i guess you could build lld with debug symbols and set ulimit -c unlimited to get a core dump
[2021-06-17T18:18:26Z] <sad_plan> Ive had very few issues on musl with ff myself, but after switching to ff, I had nothing but issues with ff tbh
[2021-06-17T18:18:31Z] <testuser[m]1> But eh
[2021-06-17T18:18:35Z] <sad_plan> no I havent, theyre seperate
[2021-06-17T18:18:47Z] <testuser[m]1> Then only one will work
[2021-06-17T18:18:54Z] <testuser[m]1> Whatever is set in k iss hook
[2021-06-17T18:19:05Z] <sad_plan> both are set in kiss hook :p
[2021-06-17T18:19:22Z] <testuser[m]1> wat
[2021-06-17T18:19:26Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2021-06-17T18:19:38Z] <testuser[m]1> Kiss only does` $KISS_HOOK hookname`
[2021-06-17T18:20:01Z] <sad_plan> no, export KISS_HOOK "dir"
[2021-06-17T18:20:07Z] <sad_plan> and ive done it in 2 lines
[2021-06-17T18:20:19Z] <testuser[m]1> You have the correct hook anyways else ff build would fail with unsupported flags
[2021-06-17T18:20:41Z] <sad_plan> ill give you the file, and you can see for yourself
[2021-06-17T18:21:13Z] <sad_plan> http://0x0.st/-9Kw.sh
[2021-06-17T18:21:47Z] <testuser[m]1> The second export overrides the first one
[2021-06-17T18:21:53Z] <sad_plan> yea. I should have the appropriate flags
[2021-06-17T18:22:06Z] <sad_plan> aah, so its just your hook thats running after all
[2021-06-17T18:22:22Z] <sad_plan> then I would have to merge them, to be able to use both. hold on
[2021-06-17T18:25:27Z] <sad_plan> does this look sane to you? http://0x0.st/-9Kg.sh
[2021-06-17T18:25:38Z] <sad_plan> I just merged them basiclly, like you said
[2021-06-17T19:23:41Z] <midfavila> util-linux appears to conflict with busybox...
[2021-06-17T19:24:02Z] <midfavila> complains about files not being in /usr/bin
[2021-06-17T19:34:11Z] <noocsharp> logs logs logs
[2021-06-17T19:36:10Z] <mcpcpc-hkp> sudo apt update
[2021-06-17T19:36:24Z] <mcpcpc-hkp> sudo apt upate
[2021-06-17T19:39:58Z] * claudia kisslinux has no supercow powers
[2021-06-17T19:55:11Z] <riteo> kisscow powers when
[2021-06-17T20:00:12Z] <midfavila> when someone writes kiss-cow
[2021-06-17T20:00:21Z] <rio6> echo 'echo moo' > /usr/bin/kiss-moo && chmod +x /usr/bin/ikss-moo
[2021-06-17T20:00:32Z] <rio6> s/ikss/kiss
[2021-06-17T20:00:48Z] <midfavila> ikss
[2021-06-17T20:00:51Z] <riteo> ascii arts are bloated
[2021-06-17T20:01:05Z] <riteo> although I would argue about that echo
[2021-06-17T20:01:07Z] <riteo> echo is bloated
[2021-06-17T20:01:14Z] <riteo> printf gang rise up
[2021-06-17T20:01:22Z] <midfavila> it also has unspecified behavior in some cases, last I checked...
[2021-06-17T20:01:27Z] <midfavila> I always prefer printf
[2021-06-17T20:01:42Z] <riteo> remember kids
[2021-06-17T20:01:44Z] <riteo> don't do echo
[2021-06-17T20:02:13Z] <rio6> #!/bin/cat
[2021-06-17T20:02:14Z] <rio6> moo
[2021-06-17T20:02:20Z] <riteo> genius
[2021-06-17T20:02:36Z] <riteo> we got it, KISS cow
[2021-06-17T20:02:47Z] <midfavila> holy shit-
[2021-06-17T20:02:52Z] <midfavila> this is some next level scripting
[2021-06-17T20:03:05Z] <midfavila> but it should be #!/usr/bin/env cat
[2021-06-17T20:03:25Z] <riteo> huh? Why?
[2021-06-17T20:03:35Z] <midfavila> think of the poor nixos users
[2021-06-17T20:04:04Z] <midfavila> ...oh, actually...
[2021-06-17T20:04:07Z] <riteo> oh no
[2021-06-17T20:04:07Z] <midfavila> that might be a quine
[2021-06-17T20:04:13Z] <riteo> I tried it and yes, it is
[2021-06-17T20:04:20Z] <midfavila> that's neato
[2021-06-17T20:04:34Z] <midfavila> a program that prints itself as its only output. how curious.
[2021-06-17T20:05:02Z] <riteo> so the smallest sh quine is `#!/bin/cat`?
[2021-06-17T20:05:09Z] <riteo> that's cool
[2021-06-17T20:05:49Z] <midfavila> acheam that should be our WotD
[2021-06-17T20:05:55Z] <midfavila> #!/usr/bin/cat
[2021-06-17T20:05:59Z] <rio6> smallest quine is this
[2021-06-17T20:06:02Z] <rio6> touch quine
[2021-06-17T20:06:04Z] <rio6> chmod +x quine
[2021-06-17T20:06:14Z] <riteo> that's cheating
[2021-06-17T20:06:14Z] <midfavila> muh obfuscated code rules
[2021-06-17T20:07:07Z] <rio6> #!/usr/bin/tail -n1 might be more suitable for kiss-moo
[2021-06-17T20:07:20Z] <midfavila> tail and head are bloat
[2021-06-17T20:07:22Z] <midfavila> sed 1q
[2021-06-17T20:07:24Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-06-17T20:07:47Z] <noocsharp> well tail -n1 prints everything but the first line
[2021-06-17T20:08:21Z] <midfavila> okay no
[2021-06-17T20:08:24Z] <midfavila> it's sed 2!d
[2021-06-17T20:08:27Z] * midfavila facepaws
[2021-06-17T20:08:50Z] <midfavila> #!/usr/bin/env sed 2!d
[2021-06-17T20:08:50Z] <midfavila> moo
[2021-06-17T20:08:56Z] <midfavila> maximum portability and compliance has been achieved
[2021-06-17T20:09:24Z] <riteo> I still don't get why nix needs this
[2021-06-17T20:09:39Z] <midfavila> because it sticks all of its packages in their own directory or something
[2021-06-17T20:09:42Z] <midfavila> same with guix
[2021-06-17T20:10:11Z] <midfavila> it like, hashes the name and version of the package, and then creates a directory and dumps the contents of the package into said dir
[2021-06-17T20:10:28Z] <riteo> that's nasty
[2021-06-17T20:10:31Z] <rio6> my sed knowledge only contains s and d
[2021-06-17T20:10:40Z] <midfavila> i want to learn more about sed
[2021-06-17T20:10:43Z] <riteo> lmao same
[2021-06-17T20:10:52Z] <midfavila> i'd like to learn if it's possible to store the contents of a sed buffer between commands
[2021-06-17T20:10:57Z] <riteo> I tried once, I only got more confused with gnu extensions
[2021-06-17T20:11:07Z] <riteo> oh not to the buffer thing, in general
[2021-06-17T20:11:15Z] <midfavila> yeah, I know
[2021-06-17T20:11:21Z] <midfavila> i'm just saying that that's my particular interest right now
[2021-06-17T20:11:35Z] <midfavila> there are a lot of scripts where due to lack of knowledge I've had to chain multiple seds together
[2021-06-17T20:11:39Z] <midfavila> kind of embarassing ngl
[2021-06-17T20:12:23Z] <riteo> remember, first make it work, then make it pretty
[2021-06-17T20:12:31Z] <midfavila> mhm
[2021-06-17T20:13:16Z] <rio6> https://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html
[2021-06-17T20:13:30Z] <rio6> keep wanting to finish reading that whole website XD
[2021-06-17T20:13:52Z] <midfavila> ...huh!
[2021-06-17T20:13:55Z] <midfavila> thanks, rio6
[2021-06-17T20:13:58Z] <midfavila> i'll have to add this to my site
[2021-06-17T20:14:29Z] <midfavila> i remember being pretty shocked that you can actually write sed scripts into a file for later batch processing
[2021-06-17T20:14:44Z] <rio6> I only managed to read through half of its awk tutorial :P
[2021-06-17T20:14:51Z] <riteo> oh cool
[2021-06-17T20:15:02Z] <midfavila> I want to spend most of this summer reading
[2021-06-17T20:15:21Z] <midfavila> there's a lot of books I want to get through
[2021-06-17T20:15:37Z] <riteo> btw as soon as mid talked about obfuscation rules the IOCCC suddenly snapped to mind and this stuff's mind boggling: https://www.ioccc.org/2020/carlini/index.html
[2021-06-17T20:16:06Z] <riteo> this tic tac toe game is ran by a single printf loop
[2021-06-17T20:17:01Z] <midfavila> >printf is turing complete
[2021-06-17T20:17:04Z] <midfavila> nice
[2021-06-17T20:17:26Z] <riteo> > Printf Oriented Programming
[2021-06-17T20:17:41Z] <midfavila> the strongest paradigm
[2021-06-17T20:17:55Z] <midfavila> move over, OO, functional, and imperative
[2021-06-17T20:18:02Z] <riteo> oh also
[2021-06-17T20:18:03Z] <riteo> > After macro expansion the format string is roughly 100K
[2021-06-17T20:18:20Z] <rio6> it's not only the One True Debugger but also the One True Language
[2021-06-17T20:18:35Z] <riteo> I think we found god
[2021-06-17T20:18:55Z] <riteo> it was under our noses the whole time
[2021-06-17T20:39:51Z] <riteo> uhhh does anybody know if it's possible to expand a variable inside a string in POSIX sh?
[2021-06-17T20:40:57Z] <riteo> like, the minecarft version manifest has the args needed to pass to the jar in a sh friendly format like "${assets_root}"
[2021-06-17T20:45:11Z] <noocsharp> yes
[2021-06-17T20:46:00Z] <riteo> noocsharp: how?
[2021-06-17T20:53:46Z] <noocsharp> they expand by default?
[2021-06-17T20:54:21Z] <noocsharp> actually for your case you probably need sed
[2021-06-17T20:54:49Z] <noocsharp> s/assets_root/path/g
[2021-06-17T20:55:01Z] <riteo> I feared so
[2021-06-17T20:55:21Z] <riteo> welp, I'll use sed then
[2021-06-17T21:01:03Z] <noocsharp> i support you could set assets_root in the script and then echo the line
[2021-06-17T21:01:49Z] <noocsharp> suppose*
[2021-06-17T21:01:50Z] <riteo> that was the idea, but it should've expanded to nothing if it actually got expanded by the shell
[2021-06-17T21:02:50Z] <GalaxyNova> riteo: are you packaging minecraft lol
[2021-06-17T21:03:55Z] <riteo> GalaxyNova: yes, and not only that
[2021-06-17T21:04:03Z] <GalaxyNova> cool
[2021-06-17T21:04:21Z] <riteo> I'm making a POSIX shell multi instance minecraft launcher that uses kiss as its package manager in order to have always the latest version of my favourite mods, straight from source
[2021-06-17T21:09:01Z] <riteo> you heard right, kiss is not only great for managing the system's utilities, but also for any package managing
[2021-06-17T21:09:39Z] <GalaxyNova> what
[2021-06-17T21:09:43Z] <riteo> managing package managing lol
[2021-06-17T21:09:51Z] <GalaxyNova> so are you going to package every single minecraft mod
[2021-06-17T21:09:58Z] <riteo> the ones I use
[2021-06-17T21:10:05Z] <GalaxyNova> but why
[2021-06-17T21:10:12Z] <riteo> but they're not gonna stay in the main repos, but in special ones
[2021-06-17T21:10:26Z] <rio6> aren't minecraft mods just bunch of jars
[2021-06-17T21:10:35Z] <GalaxyNova> Yeha ik but you can just download the .jar file
[2021-06-17T21:10:35Z] <riteo> GalaxyNova: I compile every mod I use from source and a lot of them are simply better at the latest commit (performance optimizations and whatnot)
[2021-06-17T21:10:58Z] <riteo> I'm simply too lazy to recompile everyone by hand
[2021-06-17T21:11:30Z] <GalaxyNova> I'm very interested to see Minecraft packaged
[2021-06-17T21:11:32Z] <GalaxyNova> link to the repo?
[2021-06-17T21:11:38Z] <riteo> oh I'm still developing it
[2021-06-17T21:11:43Z] <GalaxyNova> oh alright
[2021-06-17T21:11:45Z] <riteo> but as I said, it's gonna be a bit more than that
[2021-06-17T21:11:51Z] <riteo> also, there's still no java 16, yet
[2021-06-17T21:12:03Z] <GalaxyNova> in kiss?
[2021-06-17T21:12:06Z] <riteo> yeah
[2021-06-17T21:12:20Z] <GalaxyNova> can't we just increment the "sources" file
[2021-06-17T21:12:34Z] <GalaxyNova> and get java16
[2021-06-17T21:12:51Z] <riteo> I guess not, since there have been experiments at bringing java to kiss but all halted at like, java 7
[2021-06-17T21:12:56Z] <riteo> at least AFAIK
[2021-06-17T21:13:16Z] <riteo> I can package it though, I got nothing better to do
[2021-06-17T21:13:26Z] <GalaxyNova> package it
[2021-06-17T21:13:36Z] <riteo> it's part of my minecraft epic gamer plan
[2021-06-17T21:13:41Z] <riteo> I'm also bringing nvidia to musl kiss
[2021-06-17T21:13:43Z] <GalaxyNova> The only thing I use my chroots for is Minecraft
[2021-06-17T21:13:58Z] <riteo> do you think that my solution is a little overkill?
[2021-06-17T21:14:20Z] <GalaxyNova> I mean I would personally not use it
[2021-06-17T21:14:26Z] <GalaxyNova> because of lazy
[2021-06-17T21:14:33Z] <GalaxyNova> but it's cool
[2021-06-17T21:14:49Z] <riteo> I see
[2021-06-17T21:15:02Z] <riteo> well, this is more for source based, continuosly changing mods than anything
[2021-06-17T21:15:19Z] <riteo> I already did a similar thing with my server's plugins although way simpler and slightly more manual
[2021-06-17T21:15:42Z] <GalaxyNova> if u do end up packaging java16 consider submitting it to upstream
[2021-06-17T21:15:47Z] <riteo> absolutely
[2021-06-17T21:16:14Z] <riteo> everything I do will get eventually shared with the most permissive license possible
[2021-06-17T21:16:32Z] <riteo> minekiss will almost surely be under the unlicense
[2021-06-17T21:16:47Z] <riteo> (minekiss is the launcher)
[2021-06-17T21:16:58Z] <GalaxyNova> nice name
[2021-06-17T21:17:18Z] <riteo> thanks
[2021-06-17T21:17:55Z] <GalaxyNova> What's the point of the unliscense when there's the BSD liscense
[2021-06-17T21:18:09Z] <riteo> the unlicense is public domain
[2021-06-17T21:18:19Z] <rio6> 0 cause BSD ;)
[2021-06-17T21:18:29Z] <rio6> clause
[2021-06-17T21:18:32Z] <riteo> oh I'm reading it rn
[2021-06-17T21:18:49Z] <riteo> well, the unlicense is a little bit more "complete"
[2021-06-17T21:19:08Z] <midfavila> if you just want to be public domain, use CC-BY-SA
[2021-06-17T21:19:22Z] <riteo> that isn't public domain mid
[2021-06-17T21:19:29Z] <riteo> that's the MIT license, but worse
[2021-06-17T21:19:53Z] <midfavila> it's just "give me credit and don't relicense this without changing the name"
[2021-06-17T21:19:58Z] <midfavila> at least afaik
[2021-06-17T21:20:01Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-06-17T21:20:04Z] <riteo> that isn't public domain
[2021-06-17T21:20:13Z] <riteo> public domain is: "I don't care, do what you want"
[2021-06-17T21:20:25Z] <midfavila> I fail to see how not being able to have your work stolen is a bad thing.
[2021-06-17T21:20:33Z] <riteo> it isn't
[2021-06-17T21:20:35Z] <riteo> I just don't care
[2021-06-17T21:21:00Z] <riteo> I did it for myself, if someone came and asked me "can I do x with minekiss?" I'd say yes anyway so what's the point?
[2021-06-17T21:21:15Z] <riteo> if people want to be jerks they will be, it's not like a license can help me that much anyways
[2021-06-17T21:21:45Z] <riteo> also, what should they steal? A shell script running minecraft?
[2021-06-17T21:22:01Z] <GalaxyNova> lmao
[2021-06-17T21:23:17Z] <rio6> fork it under the same name, add code to inject ads into minecraft, host it on freekissminecraft.net with a big green DOWNLOAD button next to 10 ad frames
[2021-06-17T21:23:39Z] <midfavila> the download button is also an ad frame
[2021-06-17T21:23:42Z] <riteo> yesù
[2021-06-17T21:23:50Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-06-17T21:23:59Z] <riteo> you know that people do that with gpl software too, right?
[2021-06-17T21:24:03Z] <riteo> jerks are jerks
[2021-06-17T21:24:50Z] <GalaxyNova> I guess if you license it with the gpl you can take things like those to court
[2021-06-17T21:25:02Z] <riteo> yeah, from italy
[2021-06-17T21:25:05Z] <riteo> with what money
[2021-06-17T21:25:25Z] <midfavila> with all the money you get from the mob
[2021-06-17T21:25:26Z] <midfavila> obviously
[2021-06-17T21:25:32Z] <omanom> it's not like he'd be on the hook for anyone that installs it from the wrong source
[2021-06-17T21:25:35Z] <riteo> midfavila: good idea
[2021-06-17T21:25:36Z] <midfavila> i've seen The Godfather, I know how Italy works
[2021-06-17T21:25:42Z] <midfavila> you can't fool me, riteo
[2021-06-17T21:25:45Z] <riteo> "Yes judge, this person has put my minecraft shell script on a website with ads"
[2021-06-17T21:26:54Z] <riteo> At most I'd choose MIT or Apache, but usually the Unlicense just fits right
[2021-06-17T21:27:05Z] <midfavila> actually, it would be "Mr/Mrs. Justice" or "Your Honor"
[2021-06-17T21:27:06Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-06-17T21:27:08Z] <rio6> wtfpl for the meme
[2021-06-17T21:27:23Z] <riteo> I thought about it, maybe sometimes I could do that
[2021-06-17T21:27:37Z] <riteo> there was also one that like said: "you shall share the license, fuck terfs"
[2021-06-17T21:28:00Z] <midfavila> injecting unrelated politics into the license is cringe
[2021-06-17T21:28:24Z] <riteo> I'm pretty sure that was like, a meme too
[2021-06-17T21:28:35Z] <midfavila> i'm at the point where I don't know or care any more
[2021-06-17T21:28:39Z] <GalaxyNova> real chads use the ethical source license ;)
[2021-06-17T21:30:45Z] <riteo> I never heard of it
[2021-06-17T21:31:09Z] <midfavila> it's trash
[2021-06-17T21:31:10Z] <riteo> the idea is noble, but it's basically screaming at the clouds sadly
[2021-06-17T21:31:30Z] <riteo> "uh yes google, you can't train military drones with my program"
[2021-06-17T21:31:36Z] <riteo> "please"
[2021-06-17T21:32:00Z] <midfavila> the idea amounts to "if I don't like you you can't use my software!!!"
[2021-06-17T21:32:05Z] <midfavila> that's not noble at all, it's childish
[2021-06-17T21:32:24Z] <omanom> it's their prerogative
[2021-06-17T21:32:30Z] <midfavila> okay, sure,
[2021-06-17T21:32:34Z] <midfavila> but I'm not going to respect it
[2021-06-17T21:32:34Z] <riteo> I mean, that's the GPL
[2021-06-17T21:32:34Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2021-06-17T21:32:52Z] <riteo> "I don't like you because you don't believe in the four freedoms!!!"
[2021-06-17T21:33:04Z] <omanom> so then who gives a shit what the license is if you're just going to break it anyways because "i disagree with your choice of license"
[2021-06-17T21:33:13Z] <midfavila> the GPL makes no moral judgement about individuals or applications
[2021-06-17T21:33:22Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-06-17T21:33:26Z] <riteo> if you share the compiled program it does
[2021-06-17T21:34:02Z] <GalaxyNova> omanom: Richard Stallman
[2021-06-17T21:34:20Z] <riteo> software freedom is a moral thing as much as it's ethical usage of software
[2021-06-17T21:34:43Z] <GalaxyNova> how do you define "ethical usage of software" anyway
[2021-06-17T21:34:43Z] <omanom> GalaxyNova what license does he advocate using?
[2021-06-17T21:34:59Z] <GalaxyNova> omanom: guess
[2021-06-17T21:35:07Z] <omanom> no, tell me, i don't know
[2021-06-17T21:35:12Z] <riteo> the richard stallman license
[2021-06-17T21:35:17Z] <midfavila> GalaxyNova "you can only use it for things I like!"
[2021-06-17T21:35:21Z] <riteo> RSL for short
[2021-06-17T21:35:24Z] <riteo> no ok it's the GPL
[2021-06-17T21:35:33Z] <rio6> I like gpl because it makes me able to get kernel source for my android phone
[2021-06-17T21:35:36Z] <GalaxyNova> riteo: I don't believe you
[2021-06-17T21:35:51Z] <riteo> what
[2021-06-17T21:36:10Z] <GalaxyNova> /s
[2021-06-17T21:36:10Z] <riteo> I just noticed I was doing a slightly excessive amount of trolling and I toned it down
[2021-06-17T21:36:25Z] <omanom> ok so does he advocate breaking licenses as long as its not /his/ chosen license?
[2021-06-17T21:36:43Z] <midfavila> Richard Stallman advocates not accepting the terms of licenses you don't agree with.
[2021-06-17T21:37:06Z] <omanom> ok, so now what does "not accepting the terms of licenses" entail
[2021-06-17T21:37:08Z] <GalaxyNova> Richard will come to your house and kill you in your sleep if you dare choose the BSD license
[2021-06-17T21:37:13Z] <midfavila> omanom exactly what it sounds like lmao
[2021-06-17T21:37:14Z] <riteo> omanom: not using the software
[2021-06-17T21:37:16Z] <omanom> it entails not using the software, right? it doesn't entail ignoring the license
[2021-06-17T21:37:22Z] <riteo> exactly
[2021-06-17T21:37:23Z] <midfavila> to be clear,
[2021-06-17T21:37:50Z] <midfavila> I care about breaking the ESL purely because it's stupid, and there's a certain... *type* of individual who's attracted to it
[2021-06-17T21:38:09Z] <omanom> i thought you said you don't ascribe to applying morality to software
[2021-06-17T21:38:42Z] <midfavila> Licenses aren't software, last I checked.
[2021-06-17T21:38:45Z] <omanom> well, to be more specific you said the gpl doesn't
[2021-06-17T21:38:51Z] <omanom> so i take that back, fine
[2021-06-17T21:38:53Z] <midfavila> Software is just a tool. Tools don't have morality.
[2021-06-17T21:39:20Z] <omanom> so we're back at what the hell is the point of a license then, aren't we?
[2021-06-17T21:39:40Z] <GalaxyNova> midfavila: yeah exactly who cares if you use a gun to kill innocent people smh /s
[2021-06-17T21:39:45Z] <GalaxyNova> guns are just tools
[2021-06-17T21:40:00Z] <midfavila> omanom are you really going to pull that?
[2021-06-17T21:40:09Z] <midfavila> licenses are there to attempt to enforce your will on other people.
[2021-06-17T21:40:21Z] <midfavila> they're not inherently effective. it's only the legal threat backing them up that's effective.
[2021-06-17T21:40:33Z] <midfavila> the ESL hasn't been tested in court and I wouldn't be surprised if it was found invalid, besides.
[2021-06-17T21:40:35Z] <omanom> pull what? i don't get why one license is ok to break whereas others aren't. it's your /choice/ whether you use some software, you don't have to
[2021-06-17T21:40:51Z] <midfavila> omanom I'm not saying it's objectively okay
[2021-06-17T21:41:02Z] <midfavila> i'm saying that I do it because I'm petty and dislike people who use the license, lmao
[2021-06-17T21:41:10Z] <omanom> fair enough lol
[2021-06-17T21:41:38Z] <midfavila> if you're the type to sit there and talk about "diversity" and "openness" and "personal choice" and then you turn around and use the ESL, you're a filthy hypocrite
[2021-06-17T21:41:53Z] <midfavila> shockingly, it's mostly those types of people who use the ESL.
[2021-06-17T21:42:01Z] <rio6> GalaxyNova: <Richard will come to your house and kill you in your sleep> relevent xkcd https://xkcd.com/225/
[2021-06-17T21:42:03Z] <omanom> so don't use their software /shrug
[2021-06-17T21:42:23Z] <midfavila> or I can intentoinally break their license terms to derive a sense of smug satisfaction.
[2021-06-17T21:42:25Z] <midfavila> either or.
[2021-06-17T21:42:25Z] <omanom> GalaxyNova there's actually an Anyone But RMS license https://github.com/landondyer/kasm/blob/master/LICENSE
[2021-06-17T21:44:24Z] <riteo> lmao why
[2021-06-17T21:44:42Z] <midfavila> because smelly MIT man bad!
[2021-06-17T21:44:52Z] <midfavila> mattresses don't belong in offices!
[2021-06-17T21:46:29Z] <omanom> i always think of software as recipes. it's like baking cookies or making a stew or something. everyone and their mother has their own chocolate chip cookie recipe, chances are whatever you do isn't a) entirely original or b) so complex its not reproducible. at least, that applies to everything i've done for sure
[2021-06-17T21:47:17Z] <omanom> so knowing i'm not some kind of genius where no one would ever be able to redo what i've coded, i don't really care about super strict licenses
[2021-06-17T21:47:46Z] <riteo> yeah in the end everything can be done by anyone
[2021-06-17T21:48:06Z] <riteo> the only thing you're doing with permissive licenses is stealing everybody's time
[2021-06-17T21:48:09Z] <riteo> at least IMO
[2021-06-17T21:48:33Z] <riteo> btw minecraft loads!
[2021-06-17T21:49:46Z] <riteo> what's left is authentication, instance managing and some polishing/fancy stuff expecially with stuff like older versions now that there's a split in java compatibility
[2021-06-17T21:50:38Z] <omanom> do you use openjdk?
[2021-06-17T21:50:48Z] <riteo> now I'm on arch linux, so yes
[2021-06-17T21:56:29Z] <riteo> ok apparently I'll have to code in a special mode for old versions since those work in a radical differently way
[2021-06-17T21:57:14Z] <riteo> s/differently/different/
[2021-06-17T22:06:00Z] <riteo> well I've done enough for now, next objective: running nvidia on kiss with musl
[2021-06-17T22:06:07Z] <riteo> I'll go for now, bye!
[2021-06-17T22:06:13Z] <omanom> see ya!
[2021-06-17T22:29:05Z] <kimerus> Someone tested openbsd?
[2021-06-17T23:15:00Z] <GalaxyNova> kimerus: OpenBSD is nice
[2021-06-17T23:18:14Z] <kimerus> Is more minimal than kiss?
[2021-06-17T23:29:40Z] <claudia> kimerus, An openbsd install is easy and takes 5 mins.
[2021-06-17T23:38:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> http://0x0.st/-9NE.png
[2021-06-17T23:38:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> two fucking days to get my status readout in the upper-right corner working
[2021-06-17T23:38:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> and it didn't even have anything to do with my LISP code
[2021-06-17T23:39:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> i forgot about trailing newspace on shell commands >:|
[2021-06-17T23:40:48Z] <noocsharp> which wm?
[2021-06-17T23:40:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> stumpwm
[2021-06-17T23:41:03Z] <midfavila-laptop> written and configured with Common Lisp
[2021-06-17T23:43:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> now...
[2021-06-17T23:43:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> time to steal Acme's color scheme