💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-06-01.txt captured on 2022-07-17 at 03:11:17.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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[2021-06-01T00:01:47Z] <noocsharp> there's a rather large button on your keyboard that would make your code more readable
[2021-06-01T00:11:29Z] <midfavila> ...of course, the enter key!
[2021-06-01T00:20:25Z] <acheam> you have clang installed?
[2021-06-01T00:20:53Z] <midfavila> i do not.
[2021-06-01T00:21:18Z] <acheam> oh
[2021-06-01T00:21:24Z] <midfavila> why?
[2021-06-01T00:21:37Z] <acheam> clang-formay
[2021-06-01T00:21:45Z] <acheam> s/y/t/g
[2021-06-01T00:21:56Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-06-01T00:22:17Z] <june> clang-formy
[2021-06-01T00:28:35Z] <noocsharp> eww, clang-format uses java style by default
[2021-06-01T00:28:50Z] <midfavila> even more reason to avoid it
[2021-06-01T00:29:19Z] <midfavila> one of these days I'm just gonna put an entire program on a single line, and make it return random numbers as exit codes
[2021-06-01T00:29:44Z] <noocsharp> have you seen those code obfuscation contents?
[2021-06-01T00:29:52Z] <midfavila> yeah, a few entries
[2021-06-01T00:29:53Z] <noocsharp> contests*
[2021-06-01T00:30:22Z] <midfavila> someone once wrote a flappy bird clone in C and formatted it to actually look like the bird.
[2021-06-01T00:32:29Z] <noocsharp> yeah, people do some insane stuff
[2021-06-01T02:04:59Z] <rio6> the land of ioccc
[2021-06-01T03:10:59Z] <acheam> does anyone know why this script script would work in busybox ash, and bash, but not in dash?
[2021-06-01T03:11:20Z] <acheam> https://git.armaanb.net/bin/tree/setter
[2021-06-01T03:11:53Z] <acheam> in dash it gives " [: unexpected operator]" for the tests in lines 5, 9, and 22
[2021-06-01T03:14:51Z] <june> acheam: == is not a standard test(1) operator
[2021-06-01T03:14:57Z] <june> the operator is =
[2021-06-01T03:16:11Z] <acheam> ah thank you!
[2021-06-01T03:16:16Z] <acheam> how confusing...
[2021-06-01T03:24:35Z] <illiliti> '[[' is not portable too
[2021-06-01T03:25:00Z] <illiliti> just do: amixer sget Master | tail -n 1 | grep -q "off" && ...
[2021-06-01T03:26:25Z] <noocsharp> im unironically beginning to believe that templeos' command line is better than unix
[2021-06-01T03:30:55Z] <acheam> illiliti: oops I thought I removed all of the '[['s thanks!
[2021-06-01T03:33:09Z] <acheam> noocsharp: how so?
[2021-06-01T04:18:13Z] <noocsharp> acheam: "commands" are just function calls
[2021-06-01T04:18:50Z] <noocsharp> you get the flexibility and power of a real programming language
[2021-06-01T04:24:22Z] <acheam> hmm interesting
[2021-06-01T04:24:49Z] <noocsharp> it would be like using python as a shell, except closer to the metal
[2021-06-01T04:26:46Z] <acheam> xon.sh
[2021-06-01T04:28:15Z] <acheam> I'd use it if it weren't so damn slow to launcy
[2021-06-01T04:28:30Z] <acheam> and just slow in general
[2021-06-01T04:29:35Z] <noocsharp> i shouldn't have said python: it would be more like using c with a repl
[2021-06-01T04:29:44Z] <noocsharp> but interpreted like python
[2021-06-01T04:30:00Z] <noocsharp> and substantially faster, because it's c
[2021-06-01T04:30:32Z] <acheam> thats cool
[2021-06-01T04:30:45Z] <acheam> not exactly the same thing, but you light like picoc
[2021-06-01T04:30:45Z] <noocsharp> so the entire system uses the same language for everything
[2021-06-01T04:30:54Z] <acheam> thats hot
[2021-06-01T04:32:04Z] <noocsharp> if you haven't seen templeos in action, you should check out some videos of terry davis
[2021-06-01T04:32:10Z] <noocsharp> it's pretty amazing
[2021-06-01T04:32:23Z] <acheam> ive seen bits here and thete
[2021-06-01T04:32:29Z] <acheam> just never dove under the hood
[2021-06-01T04:35:47Z] <noocsharp> the templeos kernel code seems like a good educational resource because of how simple it is
[2021-06-01T04:36:40Z] <noocsharp> it is far more kiss than kiss
[2021-06-01T04:43:04Z] <acheam> how's nvidia support tho
[2021-06-01T04:43:24Z] <acheam> and I gots to have my ac wireless
[2021-06-01T04:48:04Z] <testuser[m]_> hi
[2021-06-01T05:24:46Z] <acheam> hello testuser[m]_
[2021-06-01T13:52:29Z] <nerditup> o/
[2021-06-01T13:54:25Z] <omanom> \o
[2021-06-01T14:07:16Z] <sad_plan> shiet, this LTO stuff is going to take forever. gcc alone been compiling for roughly around 1.5hrs already :p compiling the rest of the system aswell is going to take foreveeer
[2021-06-01T14:10:11Z] <acheam> nerditup: were you able to get sr.ht up?
[2021-06-01T14:12:21Z] <testuser[m]_> sad_plan: only pgo stuff takes longer
[2021-06-01T14:12:27Z] <testuser[m]_> thats lkike 5 packages
[2021-06-01T14:12:59Z] <testuser[m]_> 3* excluding gcc
[2021-06-01T14:13:43Z] <sad_plan> aah ok. I was worried there for a sec, thinking about rust and firefox, which already takes really long time already.
[2021-06-01T14:14:04Z] <sad_plan> what is this pgo stuff anyway?
[2021-06-01T14:14:17Z] <testuser[m]_> ff is with pgo so it takes 2x time, but you can disable it and just go for LTO
[2021-06-01T14:14:49Z] <testuser[m]_> you build a program to generate profile data into a directory, then compiler uses it to optimize hot code paths better
[2021-06-01T14:14:50Z] <testuser[m]_> basically
[2021-06-01T14:15:06Z] <testuser[m]_> its a noticeable difference on large programs like gcc
[2021-06-01T14:15:13Z] <sad_plan> great
[2021-06-01T15:48:43Z] <midfavila> noocsharp of course templeOS' command interface is superior
[2021-06-01T15:48:53Z] <midfavila> it's far more flexible and just *capable*
[2021-06-01T15:55:48Z] <omanom> KISS Temple when?
[2021-06-01T15:55:56Z] <noocsharp> acheam: templeos supports neither graphical accelerate nor wifi
[2021-06-01T15:56:03Z] <noocsharp> nor internet for that matter
[2021-06-01T15:57:56Z] <testuser[m]_> nice
[2021-06-01T16:13:14Z] <june> noocsharp: are those bad things?
[2021-06-01T16:13:37Z] <june> what has graphics acceleration and internet ever done for us
[2021-06-01T16:13:53Z] <claudia> good point
[2021-06-01T16:35:14Z] <illiliti> guys, how do you concat strings in C? would like to hear your opinions
[2021-06-01T16:42:37Z] <soliwilos> I'm a noob, but there's the strcat() function.
[2021-06-01T16:44:15Z] <illiliti> unfortunately, strcat() is unsafe
[2021-06-01T16:46:53Z] <testuser[m]_> strlcat from *bsd?
[2021-06-01T16:47:09Z] <testuser[m]_> just put it in a .h file instead of adding dep on libbsd
[2021-06-01T16:56:00Z] <illiliti> yeah, i considered strlcat
[2021-06-01T16:56:15Z] <illiliti> until i saw memccpy
[2021-06-01T16:56:53Z] <illiliti> which is defined by XSI(POSIX)
[2021-06-01T16:59:50Z] <june> ime there is rarely a good use of str*cat
[2021-06-01T17:00:37Z] <june> for example if it's called in any kind of loop, it's accidentally quadratic
[2021-06-01T17:00:43Z] <illiliti> probably i'll have to roll my own concat func with variadic params, bell and whistles
[2021-06-01T17:00:58Z] <june> have you tried snprintf? :P
[2021-06-01T17:01:08Z] <illiliti> yes
[2021-06-01T17:01:09Z] <midfavila> "Quadratic"?
[2021-06-01T17:01:23Z] <illiliti> snprintf is inefficient
[2021-06-01T17:02:14Z] <june> midfavila: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_complexity#Table_of_common_time_complexities
[2021-06-01T17:04:24Z] <june> illiliti: how so?
[2021-06-01T17:06:18Z] <midfavila> hmm. i'll have to read more about that, june. thanks
[2021-06-01T17:07:13Z] <june> basically if you're calling strlcat in a loop, it gets slower and slower the more you do it
[2021-06-01T17:07:48Z] <illiliti> same thing with snprintf
[2021-06-01T17:07:58Z] <illiliti> snprintf is even slower than str*
[2021-06-01T17:08:17Z] <june> snprintf doesn't inherently get any slower if you use it properly
[2021-06-01T17:09:27Z] <june> the problem with strlcat is that it contains an implicit strlen call
[2021-06-01T17:09:31Z] <testuser[m]_> is there some smaller function than strlcat/snprintf if you just need to add a single char to a char array ?
[2021-06-01T17:09:59Z] <june> sure, arr[i++] = c;
[2021-06-01T17:10:35Z] <testuser[m]_> thanks
[2021-06-01T17:10:41Z] <testuser[m]_> howndid i forget that
[2021-06-01T17:12:37Z] <illiliti> june: i don't think that using it "properly" will help. if you have a lot of strings that you need to concat, snprintf is slower than anything
[2021-06-01T17:13:08Z] <june> based on what?
[2021-06-01T17:14:21Z] <noocsharp> june: i never said they were bad, but acheam asked about it
[2021-06-01T17:15:32Z] <omanom> with the noted caveat that i am probably the worst when it comes to optimizing... at what threshold of "slower" does it actually matter? is it just purely a best-performance-possible thing, or is the use case driving the need for speed?
[2021-06-01T17:18:03Z] <illiliti> june: snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "%s/%s", "/sys/", class); << this is used in lots of threads and definitely slower than chainsaws like memcpy
[2021-06-01T17:18:29Z] <illiliti> i agree that snprintf gives best safety with average performance
[2021-06-01T17:18:41Z] <noocsharp> snprintf is what i always use in that scenario
[2021-06-01T17:18:54Z] <noocsharp> it's fast enough :>
[2021-06-01T17:19:06Z] <illiliti> but i need excellent performance with excellent safety
[2021-06-01T17:19:16Z] <illiliti> snprintf is slow in my case
[2021-06-01T17:19:49Z] <noocsharp> probably best to roll your own then, i don't know of anything like what you want in libc
[2021-06-01T17:20:27Z] <june> lol you really need to be concatenating /sys/ onto the beginning of a string a trillion times per second?
[2021-06-01T17:21:12Z] <june> seems unlikely that's ever going to be the performance bottleneck
[2021-06-01T17:22:03Z] <midfavila> algorithms are funky...
[2021-06-01T17:22:10Z] <omanom> is there a way to ensure calls to strcat() are done safely? like a safety blanket?
[2021-06-01T17:22:44Z] <june> sure, if you check your own bounds beforehand
[2021-06-01T17:23:18Z] <illiliti> june: lol yes
[2021-06-01T17:23:25Z] <illiliti> memccpy is almost what i'm looking for
[2021-06-01T17:32:13Z] <zr> illiliti: You probably shouldn't be using ASCIZ strings for non-trivial applications
[2021-06-01T17:32:43Z] <zr> That kind of performance is hard to avoid with those kinds of data types
[2021-06-01T17:33:02Z] <zr> I'd use something like `struct { char *data; int sz; };` for strings
[2021-06-01T17:33:08Z] <illiliti> yeah
[2021-06-01T17:33:41Z] <june> s/int/size_t/
[2021-06-01T17:33:44Z] <zr> antirez has a good lib for this http://www.google.com/url?q=https://github.com/antirez/sds&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiN2o7m-_bwAhVFElkFHeBYBLcQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0X8zEfkjcIqzWFAssZmQgJ
[2021-06-01T17:33:46Z] <zr> fuck
[2021-06-01T17:33:57Z] <zr> https://github.com/antirez/sds
[2021-06-01T17:34:04Z] <zr> yeah, size_t, not int
[2021-06-01T17:34:10Z] <midfavila> you've been exposed as a google user
[2021-06-01T17:34:11Z] <omanom> typical corporate shill behavior, geez zr don't be so transparent
[2021-06-01T17:34:22Z] <zr> :C
[2021-06-01T17:34:25Z] <midfavila> burn the heretic
[2021-06-01T17:34:43Z] * zr equips cloak of fire resistance
[2021-06-01T17:35:03Z] * midfavila equips Torch of Op-Burning +3 of Fire
[2021-06-01T17:35:35Z] <illiliti> fuck, what the hell ipv6 isn't available on k1sslinux.org
[2021-06-01T17:35:47Z] <midfavila> ipv6 is cringe
[2021-06-01T17:35:48Z] <zr> smh where is that slacker of a bdfl
[2021-06-01T17:35:52Z] <midfavila> embrace trad ipv4
[2021-06-01T17:35:59Z] <illiliti> midfavila: you're cringe
[2021-06-01T17:36:04Z] <midfavila> fight me
[2021-06-01T17:36:06Z] <midfavila> rn
[2021-06-01T17:36:27Z] <testuser[m]_> no
[2021-06-01T17:36:33Z] <midfavila> c r i n g e
[2021-06-01T17:36:47Z] <midfavila> let me guess, you use *words* to solve conflict *peacefully*
[2021-06-01T17:38:17Z] <illiliti> no, i'll send you a box with bomb
[2021-06-01T17:38:33Z] <midfavila> joke's on you, my mailbox isn't large enough to fit a bomb
[2021-06-01T17:39:04Z] <midfavila> ...I mean, unless it was C4 or something. I guess you could rig a detonator.
[2021-06-01T17:39:15Z] <midfavila> ...hmm...
[2021-06-01T22:53:44Z] <midfavila> >finally acquire phantom power supply and not-shit condenser mic
[2021-06-01T22:53:53Z] <midfavila> >the phantom power supply expects two mic inputs
[2021-06-01T22:54:04Z] <midfavila> >mfw mic can only pass a single audio channel through to my PC because of this