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2020-11-10T01:49:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I'm sitting here fiddling with some software, and I've noticed that no matter what I try, some stuff just refuses to work. not build or whatever, it builds just fine. When you actually go to run the program though, it just... doesn't.
2020-11-10T01:49:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> so then I had a really stupid idea
2020-11-10T01:50:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> could you take another distro's known-good base, and then use kiss to manage all the software on the system? I can't see why not, even if it would be pretty janky
2020-11-10T02:01:58 #kisslinux <kqz> i've been looking for something similar, been using bubblewrap as a "rootless" chroot solution, and would love a way create a kiss package that updates software in said chroot from my host
2020-11-10T02:03:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> *nod*
2020-11-10T02:03:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...although another thing I've been thinking about is using kiss on an LFS setup
2020-11-10T02:03:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> like, that's something I haven't been able to get out of my head.
2020-11-10T02:03:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> for weeks now.
2020-11-10T02:19:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> isn't your issue that you dont know how to debug runtime issues. how can LFS help you tehre?
2020-11-10T02:22:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> more likely compile time since following the exact same steps as on other distros results in working binaries. but the bit with LFS is just something I thought of on the spot. I wanted to use LFS before, but there was no real way for me to do so long-term without some kind of package manager, even if I set up all the packages myself
2020-11-10T02:22:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> what with cruft and conflicts and just bluh
2020-11-10T02:35:10 #kisslinux <dilynm> But why do LFS
2020-11-10T02:35:35 #kisslinux <dilynm> Like what would you do differently so that you end up with something that isn't just KISS with a 26 hour build time xD
2020-11-10T02:38:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> really, you could swap any distro in there
2020-11-10T02:38:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> I just figured kiss would fill the void of a package manager for LFS.
2020-11-10T02:43:24 #kisslinux <dilynm> I mean, yes
2020-11-10T02:44:00 #kisslinux <dilynm> But like, if you just did musl lfs with a few extra patches you'd end up roughly at where a KISS tarball is
2020-11-10T02:44:11 #kisslinux <dilynm> Just use bedrock :v
2020-11-10T02:44:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> Eh...
2020-11-10T02:44:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> Besides, if I was going to make such a system, it'd probably use glibc
2020-11-10T02:45:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> As excellent as using musl would be, a lot of the software I use won't compile against it
2020-11-10T03:03:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay yeah we're good now
2020-11-10T03:04:01 #kisslinux * midfavila facepalms
2020-11-10T05:41:13 #kisslinux <Rio6> what are some softwares that don't run om musl
2020-11-10T05:41:40 #kisslinux <Rio6> I'm deciding whether to use gkiss
2020-11-10T05:42:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly you should try out regular KISS in a chroot before going gKISS
2020-11-10T05:42:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> and if you can't set up all your software that way then try gKISS
2020-11-10T05:46:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rio6 uses KISS already though
2020-11-10T05:46:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If I'm not mistaken
2020-11-10T05:47:02 #kisslinux <Rio6> yeah I have a running kiss on my drive
2020-11-10T05:47:08 #kisslinux <Rio6> not quite my main os
2020-11-10T05:47:19 #kisslinux <Rio6> still need to setup bunch of things
2020-11-10T05:47:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A glibc chroot is another option
2020-11-10T05:47:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> As is something like flatpak
2020-11-10T05:49:19 #kisslinux <Rio6> I'm not too familiar with flatpak, but doesn't it use extra space because every packages come with their own libraries
2020-11-10T05:49:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-11-10T05:49:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lots of extra space
2020-11-10T05:49:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You will also require pulseaudio
2020-11-10T05:49:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And /maybe/ dbus
2020-11-10T05:50:06 #kisslinux <Rio6> :|
2020-11-10T05:50:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Some libraries are still required on the host
2020-11-10T05:52:06 #kisslinux <Rio6> I wonder if I just replace musl with glib without rebuilding, what will break
2020-11-10T05:52:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> literally everything
2020-11-10T05:52:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> except busybox for some weird reason
2020-11-10T05:52:35 #kisslinux <Rio6> since they should have the same symbol name for functions no?
2020-11-10T05:52:45 #kisslinux <Rio6> or do they not
2020-11-10T05:53:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> I wouldn't know the low level details, but since I messed around with KISS when I was on CRUX, you definitely can't run stuff linked against musl on a glibc system
2020-11-10T05:53:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> and vice versa
2020-11-10T05:55:40 #kisslinux <Rio6> static link glibc might be another option, tho not sure if it'll be the same effort as patching packages to use musl
2020-11-10T05:56:06 #kisslinux <Rio6> I dond even know what packhes actually require glibc XD
2020-11-10T05:56:16 #kisslinux <Rio6> *packages
2020-11-10T05:56:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> in the official repos? none
2020-11-10T05:56:55 #kisslinux <Rio6> I'll find out if when I actually need it, I guess
2020-11-10T05:57:04 #kisslinux * midfavila nods
2020-11-10T05:57:37 #kisslinux <Rio6> for now I'm just gonna set up daemonless mdev
2020-11-10T11:19:50 #kisslinux <kisslinuxnoob> hi
2020-11-10T11:21:25 #kisslinux <soliwilos> o/
2020-11-10T11:25:14 #kisslinux <kisslinuxnoob> first of all thanks for the kiss linux project. it's a very fascinating system. i've been trying to build xorg(which also fetches llvm) but it's been taking hours on my old and crappy laptop. i saw a tool called kiss-bin so i was wondering if there were any active binary repos that included xorg. or alternatively how would i proceed with compiling
2020-11-10T11:25:14 #kisslinux <kisslinuxnoob> these stuff on my desktop and then move them to the laptop? Thanks.
2020-11-10T11:32:17 #kisslinux <soliwilos> kisslinuxnoob: I haven't tried this myself, but if you have kiss on your desktop as well, you could try copying the built tarballs from ~/.cache/kiss/bin on your desktop to your laptop and run the commands to install them on the laptop.
2020-11-10T12:16:50 #kisslinux <kisslinuxnoob> thank you! I currently don't have a kisslinux installation on my desktop but i'll setup a quick chroot to give it a try.
2020-11-10T14:43:30 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> Hi
2020-11-10T14:50:55 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> o/
2020-11-10T14:55:59 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> How're you ? :)
2020-11-10T16:27:15 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @testuser.:matrix.org: just fine.  having some fun improving xwm.  it’s been an interesting learning curve. you?
2020-11-10T17:26:53 #kisslinux <testuser[m]> [mcpcpc](https://matrix.to/#/@mcpcpc:matrix.org): nothing much, was just adding some basic instructions to the gkiss README
2020-11-10T17:29:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <midfavila> [06:51:56] except busybox for some weird reason
2020-11-10T17:29:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> supposedly busybox is statically linked
2020-11-10T17:30:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> you know, I've never actually looked into the details of static linking
2020-11-10T17:30:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> I think I'll do that today
2020-11-10T17:31:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's one of the major reasons to love musl
2020-11-10T17:31:36 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> because your hello world ends up being like 6 KB instead of 500KB with glibc
2020-11-10T17:32:23 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and a reasonably complex project with ~1000 LOC about 50KBish
2020-11-10T17:32:26 #kisslinux <miskatonic> musl is especially great for embedded appliances and for rescue disks
2020-11-10T17:32:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> kek
2020-11-10T17:32:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah, there was a pretty significant size difference under musl. Honestly, once I learn enough programming to replace the few programs that refuse to compile against it, I'll probably switch
2020-11-10T17:33:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> there shouldnt be that many nowadays
2020-11-10T17:33:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> which ones are you running into that don't?
2020-11-10T17:33:23 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i started filing upstream bug reports to fix issues in 2011, alpine around 2014
2020-11-10T17:33:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> Galculator, SpaceFM, and UXP browsers are finnicky about musl
2020-11-10T17:33:47 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> as of 2020, 99% of projects should be fixed already
2020-11-10T17:33:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> haven't run into any others
2020-11-10T17:34:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...oh, pidgin was finnicky, too
2020-11-10T17:34:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> huh, galculator builds fine on my sabotage linux
2020-11-10T17:34:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> Hmm.
2020-11-10T17:34:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> you happen to have the error for spacefm on hand? (I don't have gtk so I'm not gonna try to build it myself)
2020-11-10T17:34:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> Nah, I don't, sorry
2020-11-10T17:34:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> It's been a while
2020-11-10T17:34:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> as for UXP/palemoon, check out the reciple/patches in sabotage
2020-11-10T17:35:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> *nod*
2020-11-10T17:35:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> (honestly if I wasn't such a stickler about GTK2 then this wouldn't be a problem, but I am...)
2020-11-10T17:35:26 #kisslinux <E5ten> well if you end up trying to build it again and it still doesn't work, feel free to mention me with the error and I'll try to look
2020-11-10T17:35:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> Cool, thanks
2020-11-10T17:35:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'll try again with building my usual setup against musl today
2020-11-10T17:36:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> it'll be something to do while I sit in class
2020-11-10T17:36:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> my palemoon recipe uses gtk+2 too
2020-11-10T17:36:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> based
2020-11-10T17:38:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm still running musl 1.1.x as 1.2.x has some major changes that i knew would cause issues for early adopters..
2020-11-10T17:38:59 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and i prefered others to play guinea pigs and do the hard work of fixing upstream packages :)
2020-11-10T17:39:55 #kisslinux <E5ten> just looked at the spacefm source lol, this shouldn't be an issue for musl, but yikes it uses the *64 LFS functions instead of just defining _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 and using the normal ones
2020-11-10T17:40:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> it does define _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64, it just also defines the _LARGEFILE_SOURCE shit and uses stuff like stat64 and off64_t, even though the point of _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 is that you use the normal funcs and they'll work with 64-bit
2020-11-10T17:41:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> so then the problem's what, unneded redundancy or whatever?
2020-11-10T17:43:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://wiki.musl-libc.org/faq.html there's an entry about the *64 nonsense
2020-11-10T17:43:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> "only -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 should ever be used, anywhere, even on glibc."
2020-11-10T17:45:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> I grep'd through the source, seems the only LFS stuff it uses is off64_t and stat64, that should probably get changed lol