💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-01-19.txt captured on 2022-07-17 at 03:25:48.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2020-01-19T00:04:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sed -i 's/as_fn_error.*fribidi/: 0 "/' configure
2020-01-19T00:04:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sed -i '/pkg_requires="fribidi >= .*/d' configure
2020-01-19T00:04:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :^)
2020-01-19T00:05:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> fair enough
2020-01-19T00:05:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks for this
2020-01-19T00:06:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss l | wc -l
2020-01-19T00:06:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 115
2020-01-19T00:08:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If I combine Xorg into a monolithic build I'll break 100 :^)
2020-01-19T00:09:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Too bad that I won't
2020-01-19T00:12:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm off to bed
2020-01-19T00:12:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Night
2020-01-19T01:07:09 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Okay, so I realize this is probably me being a derp, but I just realized my computer thinks it's 1 am, and I have no idea how to set timezone...
2020-01-19T01:07:45 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> I've been googling for hours, and I think now I'm just too deep and can't see the forest for the trees.
2020-01-19T01:08:57 #kisslinux <konimex> install tzdata
2020-01-19T01:10:04 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Jesus. I knew it was going to be something stupid I missed.
2020-01-19T01:11:04 #kisslinux <konimex> and do some ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/<continent>/<nearest city to your place> /etc/localtime
2020-01-19T01:14:38 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Yep. See, I knew that. But for some reason didn't realize tzdata was in the repo's. Even though I KNOW that's a thing... Was looking for something way more complex, and getting lost.
2020-01-19T01:15:48 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> And there we go. Suddenly it all works perfectly.
2020-01-19T02:27:56 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> o/
2020-01-19T03:31:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> behold the perfect grub stanza https://termbin.com/jace
2020-01-19T03:32:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> o/
2020-01-19T05:53:42 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> dylanaraps: https://0x0.st/zFWi.png
2020-01-19T05:54:03 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> can you update my scrot? thanks :>
2020-01-19T07:49:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Comments are great https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/eqllsf/this_week_in_kiss_linux_7/
2020-01-19T07:53:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lieuxnoir: Added your scrot
2020-01-19T08:00:48 #kisslinux <konimex> you're not even explaining about why systemd is excluded (well, aside of the fact you're excluding it) yet he is already spewing FUD bullshit
2020-01-19T08:01:44 #kisslinux <konimex> "two libcs are possible" yeah go ahead deal with multiple triplets in one system
2020-01-19T08:01:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Even if I liked systemd, we use musl and they're not compatible
2020-01-19T08:02:33 #kisslinux <konimex> I figured dude's probably referring to chroot when he said Alpine but they don't work that way
2020-01-19T08:04:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-September/023177.html
2020-01-19T08:04:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See how big of an effort it is, even back in 2014.
2020-01-19T08:10:01 #kisslinux <konimex> man I honestly don't like the "fragmentation" argument
2020-01-19T08:10:42 #kisslinux <konimex> by their logic, Wayland is a fragmentation, GNOME is a fragmentation (of KDE), "everything I don't like" is a fragmentation
2020-01-19T08:12:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-19T08:12:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's the anti-"Linux is about choice"
2020-01-19T08:13:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can't win with some people.
2020-01-19T08:13:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Instead of complaining about systemd, wayland, GNU etc, I created my own distribution to suit my needs.
2020-01-19T08:13:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They then complain about this
2020-01-19T08:14:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reminder: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html
2020-01-19T08:15:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/09/23/linux-is-about-choice/
2020-01-19T08:24:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> yo
2020-01-19T08:24:21 #kisslinux <atkka> yo
2020-01-19T08:25:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> Can you guys check out my dmesg I have a question about a couple fails
2020-01-19T08:25:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sure
2020-01-19T08:26:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://termbin.com/dp3z
2020-01-19T08:26:30 #kisslinux <asx> hi there!
2020-01-19T08:26:41 #kisslinux <adamantium> So my first question deals with the fail messages surrounding [ 0.346779] acpi PNP0A08:00: _OSC failed (AE_SUPPORT); disabling ASPM
2020-01-19T08:27:03 #kisslinux <adamantium> Not sure what is going on there
2020-01-19T08:28:30 #kisslinux <adamantium> My other question is all of the: [ 2.153933] pcieport 0000:00:02.0: BAR 9: failed to assign [mem size 0xc0000000 64bit pref] / [ 2.153938] amdgpu 0000:05:00.0: BAR 0: no space for [mem size 0x80000000 64bit pref]
2020-01-19T08:28:37 #kisslinux <asx> adamantium, ASPM is for Active State Power Management. not supported from all HW, or sometimes disabled in BIOS/UEFI
2020-01-19T08:29:36 #kisslinux <adamantium> i'm wondering is all of the amdgpu problem just happening because the module is loaded late in init and the kernel doesnt know what to do with the gpu hardware at that point of the boot process
2020-01-19T08:30:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> (i load amdgpu as a module with modprobe)
2020-01-19T08:30:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> hi asx , thanks . So I get this ASPM fail message on both my laptop and workstation, totally different setups and I think they should be supporting this featuree
2020-01-19T08:31:24 #kisslinux <asx> adamantium, what model is your amdgpu ?
2020-01-19T08:31:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> rx460
2020-01-19T08:31:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> What is in common between the two computers is they both use a basic make defconfig kernel with wifi and gpu built as modules
2020-01-19T08:32:55 #kisslinux <asx> that's fine
2020-01-19T08:34:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: any idea
2020-01-19T08:34:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> my other question is if these messages in my dmesg are even bad.....
2020-01-19T08:34:36 #kisslinux <adamantium> I'm okay having error messages if I am confident they are harmless
2020-01-19T08:34:46 #kisslinux <asx> adamantium, about ASPM:
2020-01-19T08:34:49 #kisslinux <asx> [ 0.261363] ACPI FADT declares the system doesn't support PCIe ASPM, so disable it
2020-01-19T08:35:07 #kisslinux <asx> ^^^ look like disabled from BIOS, (or bugged BIOS)
2020-01-19T08:36:28 #kisslinux <asx> this is harmless, other than preventing some device to enter a deeper power save mode
2020-01-19T08:36:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> lets see. the laptop gets the message too, making me doubt its a bios fault
2020-01-19T08:36:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> i will reboot the laptop to another linux distro and check dmesg for the same messssage
2020-01-19T08:37:46 #kisslinux <adamantium> thanks for jumping to this channel to help me btw asx
2020-01-19T08:38:01 #kisslinux <asx> np! ;)
2020-01-19T08:39:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> asx: when I boot "clear linux" on the laptop, I don't see all of the ASPM fail messages, in fact, the only ASPM message that turns up in dmesg is: iwlwifi can't disable ASPM; OS doesn't have ASPM control
2020-01-19T08:41:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> might it be a difference since it uses a module based kernel perhaps
2020-01-19T08:41:31 #kisslinux <asx> adamantium, this second report is about kernel config: check your kernel for CONFIG_PCIEASPM=y
2020-01-19T08:41:42 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-01-19T08:41:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> it =y
2020-01-19T08:42:49 #kisslinux <asx> ok, then may be the iwlwifi modudle doesn't support ASPM
2020-01-19T08:43:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Apologies, looking now
2020-01-19T08:43:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 1> [ 0.832562] platform regulatory.0: Direct firmware load for regulatory.db failed with error -2
2020-01-19T08:43:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This one is fine
2020-01-19T08:43:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [ 0.832565] cfg80211: failed to load regulatory.db
2020-01-19T08:44:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> As is this one
2020-01-19T08:44:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-01-19T08:44:23 #kisslinux <asx> yes
2020-01-19T08:45:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [ 0.346779] acpi PNP0A08:00: _OSC failed (AE_SUPPORT); disabling ASPM
2020-01-19T08:45:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You *may* want to fix this one
2020-01-19T08:45:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> i do want to
2020-01-19T08:45:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> i do not know how
2020-01-19T08:45:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Most devices nowadays can regulate their own power
2020-01-19T08:45:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hardware is probably a better word to use
2020-01-19T08:46:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> i get that same message dylanaraps on both my hp z620 workstation and dell latitude e6430 laptop ...
2020-01-19T08:46:21 #kisslinux <adamantium> i feel like its a configuration error on my part
2020-01-19T08:46:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try: pcie_aspm=force
2020-01-19T08:46:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It may freeze your system or it may work.
2020-01-19T08:46:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> but why is that necessary
2020-01-19T08:46:51 #kisslinux <adamantium> yeah i read it might freeze things
2020-01-19T08:46:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > This error message occurs when the kernel runs the root PCI bridge _OSC control method in your firmware and the execution fails, perhaps due to a bug in the firmware or perhaps it does not exist. The kernel hence cannot determine the features supported or capabilities provided by the device (as specified by your firmware) and hence has to disable PCIe ASPM
2020-01-19T08:47:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> is a sort of bios setting that might be causing this then?
2020-01-19T08:49:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It could be a bios issue
2020-01-19T08:49:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or it's a kernel issue
2020-01-19T08:49:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: i've been having an intermittent issue where one of my cpu does not wake up and i will get nproc = 7 ... It comes and goes on random reboots
2020-01-19T08:49:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> could be related to this?
2020-01-19T08:49:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you haven't seen this outside of KISS then I'm led to believe it's a kernel config issue
2020-01-19T08:49:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Possibly
2020-01-19T08:50:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> k
2020-01-19T08:50:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> hmm
2020-01-19T08:50:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which kernel version?
2020-01-19T08:50:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> CONFIG_PCIEASPM =y ...
2020-01-19T08:50:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> 5.4.12
2020-01-19T08:53:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can also try: pcie_aspm=force pcie_aspm.policy=powersave
2020-01-19T08:53:42 #kisslinux <adamantium> asx: any thoughts
2020-01-19T08:53:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You didn't see this outside of KISS?
2020-01-19T08:54:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> correct
2020-01-19T08:54:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Here's an idea: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1357602#p1357602
2020-01-19T08:55:55 #kisslinux <asx> adamantium, some BIOS disguise disable ASPM as a 'performance' setting ...
2020-01-19T08:57:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do you have Native ASPM Enabled enabled?
2020-01-19T08:57:28 #kisslinux <adamantium> asx: ill double check those soon
2020-01-19T08:57:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (In your kernel)
2020-01-19T08:59:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> im searching for it
2020-01-19T08:59:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont see a
2020-01-19T08:59:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> "native"
2020-01-19T09:00:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me see if I can find it.
2020-01-19T09:00:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> acpi_enforce_resources=lax being the idea?
2020-01-19T09:00:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> (the arch thing)
2020-01-19T09:01:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also try CONFIG_PCI_QUIRKS=y
2020-01-19T09:05:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> quirks is already =y
2020-01-19T09:05:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> so pcie_aspm=force pcie_aspm.policy=powersave i will try first
2020-01-19T09:06:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> or acpi_enforce_resources=lax ?
2020-01-19T09:08:42 #kisslinux <adamanti`> trying all 3
2020-01-19T09:11:29 #kisslinux <adamanti`> dylanaraps: / asx now see https://termbin.com/orxx <-- is there any difference with the new params added?
2020-01-19T09:14:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Doesn't look to be
2020-01-19T09:14:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try: pci=nocrs
2020-01-19T09:14:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also try it in addition to pcie_aspm=force pcie_aspm.policy=powersave
2020-01-19T09:14:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> With it and without it
2020-01-19T09:16:01 #kisslinux <adamanti`> so drop the lax
2020-01-19T09:16:12 #kisslinux <adamanti`> and try nocrs
2020-01-19T09:16:24 #kisslinux <adamanti`> with the force and powersave
2020-01-19T09:16:25 #kisslinux <adamanti`> and without
2020-01-19T09:22:09 #kisslinux <adamanti`> dylanaraps: it fails with pci=nocrs in all combos, including solo
2020-01-19T09:24:32 #kisslinux <asx> adamanti`, what is faiing with pci=nocrs ? ASPM support ?
2020-01-19T09:24:38 #kisslinux <adamanti`> yea
2020-01-19T09:24:46 #kisslinux <adamanti`> ok lets talk about my bios a second
2020-01-19T09:24:58 #kisslinux <adamanti`> runtime power management = enabled
2020-01-19T09:25:02 #kisslinux <asx> ok
2020-01-19T09:25:03 #kisslinux <adamanti`> turbo mode = enabled
2020-01-19T09:25:08 #kisslinux <asx> ok
2020-01-19T09:25:26 #kisslinux <adamanti`> idle power savings = normal (i think extended is default btw. should i put it back to extended?)
2020-01-19T09:25:40 #kisslinux <adamanti`> pcie performance mode - disabled
2020-01-19T09:25:41 #kisslinux <asx> enable 'extended'
2020-01-19T09:25:54 #kisslinux <adamanti`> unique sleep state blink rates - disabled
2020-01-19T09:25:59 #kisslinux <asx> ok
2020-01-19T09:26:15 #kisslinux <adamanti`> maybe pcie performance mode /??
2020-01-19T09:26:24 #kisslinux <asx> what are the choices ?
2020-01-19T09:27:01 #kisslinux <adamanti`> "warning: Enabling pcie performance, may chan ge the settings for turbo mode, runtime power management and idle power savings in order to optimize bus performance.""
2020-01-19T09:27:43 #kisslinux <asx> as i read it, enabling performance mode might disable ASPM
2020-01-19T09:27:51 #kisslinux <adamanti`> agreed
2020-01-19T09:28:13 #kisslinux <adamanti`> when pcie performance mode is selected, it grays out runtime power management
2020-01-19T09:28:21 #kisslinux <asx> yep
2020-01-19T09:34:01 #kisslinux <Guest83> tried reloading bios defaults?
2020-01-19T09:34:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb in an hour or so. Apologies.
2020-01-19T09:35:21 #kisslinux <adamanti`> ya doing now
2020-01-19T09:35:33 #kisslinux <adamanti`> Guest83: yes im doing it again tho right now
2020-01-19T09:35:50 #kisslinux <adamanti`> also updated the bios to latest
2020-01-19T09:38:01 #kisslinux <adamanti`> sigh
2020-01-19T11:13:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> back
2020-01-19T11:30:31 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> i just did some scrollback reading.. how the heck most of you have less than 200 packages and have a usable system? w-what do you use it for with so few packages? lol
2020-01-19T11:31:20 #kisslinux <konimex> some remove makedeps after installed it
2020-01-19T11:31:48 #kisslinux <konimex> for example, you have "meson" hanging about eventhough it's just a make dep, you remove it
2020-01-19T11:37:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-19T11:37:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I keep gcc, make, pkgconf and friends around always though.
2020-01-19T11:38:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> TwistedFate: I develop KISS and my other projects with this package count.
2020-01-19T11:38:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I also watch movies, listen to music etc
2020-01-19T11:39:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have minimal needs from my system and this satisfies them
2020-01-19T11:39:27 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> i have little over 2.5k packages installed :S
2020-01-19T11:39:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-19T11:39:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I also like knowing what each and every package does and is for
2020-01-19T11:39:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I know exactly what's running and why
2020-01-19T11:40:48 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> while i think this number could and should go much below 2.5k, i'm not sure i could use my OS with less than 200 packages :/
2020-01-19T11:41:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No one is telling you to stick to below 200 packages
2020-01-19T11:41:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can install as many as you like on KISS
2020-01-19T11:41:53 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> did you ever encounter a package that you cannot find out what is it for?
2020-01-19T11:42:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No, as I've packaged everything myself or reviewed the pull request for each and every one.
2020-01-19T11:42:42 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> nice
2020-01-19T11:42:49 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> what DE or WM are you using?
2020-01-19T11:43:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sowm
2020-01-19T11:43:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/dylanaraps/sowm
2020-01-19T11:44:28 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> wait what
2020-01-19T11:44:35 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> did you make your own wm? O.o
2020-01-19T11:45:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-01-19T11:46:03 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> oh man, wish i knew as much as you
2020-01-19T11:46:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> When I dive into something like this I know nothing too
2020-01-19T11:46:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I learn as I do
2020-01-19T11:47:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just takes time and patience
2020-01-19T11:48:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And you need the capacity to learn and the confidence to do
2020-01-19T11:48:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I had no formal education post primary school. I did no high school at all.
2020-01-19T11:49:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (No schooling from 13 years of age)
2020-01-19T11:49:24 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> my willpower is shot to hell, brain got lazy after years of inactivity :(
2020-01-19T11:52:49 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> gotta figure out a way to kickstart it
2020-01-19T11:53:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just start doing
2020-01-19T11:53:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Spend less time thinking
2020-01-19T12:13:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Turns out that Firefox will segfault if the system sqlite differs to the version it was built against...
2020-01-19T12:13:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/storage/mozStorageService.cpp#l209
2020-01-19T12:13:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Even if they're ABI compatible)
2020-01-19T12:14:58 #kisslinux <konimex> we don't use --use-system-sqlite, yes?
2020-01-19T12:15:10 #kisslinux <konimex> if it's even possible
2020-01-19T12:16:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox requires sqlite installed to build
2020-01-19T12:16:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though I don't know if there even is a --use-system-sqlite flag
2020-01-19T12:17:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup, it does exist
2020-01-19T12:17:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We use the vendored one thank god
2020-01-19T12:19:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It sucks that Firefox releases are able to hold back releases of software
2020-01-19T12:19:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Rust, system sqlite, autoconf (though we use a workaround)
2020-01-19T12:19:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's probably other examples
2020-01-19T12:27:05 #kisslinux <adamanti`> konimex: thanx for your pciutils build i needed it earlier and it came in handy
2020-01-19T12:28:51 #kisslinux <adamanti`> do you guys know how the hell to copy the current page url from surf
2020-01-19T12:36:47 #kisslinux <konimex> dylanaraps: say, since you use pandoc for html generating from markdown, have you heard of lowdown (https://kristaps.bsd.lv/lowdown/)?
2020-01-19T12:36:52 #kisslinux <konimex> since pandoc is... haskell, after all
2020-01-19T13:07:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: I use https://github.com/mity/md4c nowadays
2020-01-19T13:07:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The KISS website uses pandoc though I never build it locally.
2020-01-19T13:07:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's easier to use pandoc as it is always installed on netlify.
2020-01-19T13:08:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Power went out again :P
2020-01-19T13:28:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm testing a system without eudev
2020-01-19T13:28:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Here we go
2020-01-19T13:32:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: qt without udev(?)
2020-01-19T13:33:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> nvm
2020-01-19T13:41:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello
2020-01-19T13:54:45 #kisslinux <konimex> looks like I'm fragmenting KISS
2020-01-19T13:54:57 #kisslinux <konimex> though if Carbs goes suckless, I'm going GNU-less
2020-01-19T13:55:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I see fragmentation more as choice
2020-01-19T13:56:12 #kisslinux <konimex> but Linux is not about choice!
2020-01-19T13:56:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also as the exploration of new ideas
2020-01-19T13:56:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Were no one doing anything different we would have systemd, pulseaudio, wayland, etc :^)
2020-01-19T13:56:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> wouldn't*
2020-01-19T13:57:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Why stop here though?
2020-01-19T13:57:03 #kisslinux <konimex> anyway, my rootfs is up, but it's ~100MB, LLVM has a hell lot of static libs
2020-01-19T13:57:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-19T13:57:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll add a section to the website about architecture ports and alternate rootfs tarballs
2020-01-19T13:57:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I was going to save it for the website rewrite :P
2020-01-19T13:58:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You should do a write up about the process
2020-01-19T13:59:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It'd be interesting
2020-01-19T13:59:10 #kisslinux <konimex> process of...?
2020-01-19T13:59:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Removing GNU
2020-01-19T13:59:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Swapping to an LLVM/Clang toolchain
2020-01-19T13:59:57 #kisslinux <konimex> I have the repo here to build a pure LLVM toolchain https://github.com/konimex/kiss-llvm
2020-01-19T14:00:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't have a working browser right now
2020-01-19T14:00:16 #kisslinux <konimex> it used GNU ncurses for a while but now it should be clean
2020-01-19T14:00:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will take a look in about 10 mins
2020-01-19T14:00:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> qtwebengine complains that there's no udev basically
2020-01-19T14:01:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or it could be falkon doing something
2020-01-19T14:01:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rebuilds of qtwebengine take about 10-15 minutes which is nice
2020-01-19T14:02:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> qt5-webengine Successfully built package
2020-01-19T14:02:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo
2020-01-19T14:02:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a falkon issue
2020-01-19T14:03:32 #kisslinux <konimex> maybe I'll write a blogpost too on how exactly I did it and what problems I run into
2020-01-19T14:03:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or not
2020-01-19T14:03:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You should
2020-01-19T14:04:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> falkon
2020-01-19T14:04:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Trace/breakpoint trap
2020-01-19T14:04:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then it exits
2020-01-19T14:13:18 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> why are you bent on removing gnu :D
2020-01-19T14:16:01 #kisslinux <konimex> TwistedFate: why not? alternatives are good
2020-01-19T14:16:43 #kisslinux <konimex> besides, if no GNU exist, then there will be discussion, is it still "GNU/Linux"?
2020-01-19T14:17:25 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> hello all
2020-01-19T14:18:16 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> checking in here from Alpine. haven't tried kiss yet though :)
2020-01-19T14:18:41 #kisslinux <konimex> welcome aboard
2020-01-19T14:21:10 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> I was wondering what you guys think about solutions for IPS (Inter Process Communication). Generally the standard is DBus, which works quite well but the standard implementation of it doesn't fit the philosophy. Do you guys have a suckless alternative?
2020-01-19T14:22:18 #kisslinux <konimex> pltrz[m]: OpenWRT has ibus, but no, KISS doesn't use IPC for now
2020-01-19T14:22:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nothing prevents you from installing dbus though.
2020-01-19T14:23:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T14:24:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dbus isn't the only method of IPC either. Other methods are used all over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-process_communication
2020-01-19T14:25:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I personally prefer no IPC "bus" on my system
2020-01-19T14:29:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Back
2020-01-19T14:29:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK
2020-01-19T14:29:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> xorg-server built without eudev fails to use my hardware(?)
2020-01-19T14:31:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Regardless, all of the groundwork is done for optional udev.
2020-01-19T14:33:33 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> dylanaraps: would you like to use busybox's mdev or another device manager?
2020-01-19T14:33:57 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> * or something else
2020-01-19T14:34:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> None ideally
2020-01-19T14:34:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't even run eudev
2020-01-19T14:34:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I let it run at boot to detect my hardware and then it gets killed by the init
2020-01-19T14:34:57 #kisslinux <konimex> though if someone wants to add mdev support for kiss that'd be great
2020-01-19T14:35:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-19T14:35:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> eudev is now optional for libinput/xorg-server/qt/etc
2020-01-19T14:35:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So if anyone wants to try, it's easy enough now
2020-01-19T14:35:29 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> yeah alpine has mdev by default and no eudev
2020-01-19T14:35:39 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> but then xorg-server needs eudev :/
2020-01-19T14:35:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's optional for xorg too
2020-01-19T14:35:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I just can't get it to work at runtime
2020-01-19T14:36:07 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> dylanaraps: yeah same with me
2020-01-19T14:36:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The xf86-video-* drivers seem to depend on it too
2020-01-19T14:36:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/1973da257b5e5b860652d89ce184624cc1a62a31
2020-01-19T14:37:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks to mforney :)
2020-01-19T14:37:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (and Oasis Linux)
2020-01-19T14:37:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo
2020-01-19T14:37:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me try something.
2020-01-19T14:39:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Basically as simple as:
2020-01-19T14:39:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS_FORCE=1 kiss r eudev
2020-01-19T14:39:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kiss b libinput xorg-server
2020-01-19T14:39:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm trying a xorg.conf change to see if it works.
2020-01-19T14:39:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T14:47:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello
2020-01-19T14:47:48 #kisslinux <ectlunya> hi
2020-01-19T14:47:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So, rootless xorg without udev seems to fail
2020-01-19T14:48:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not sure if this is related to me using no device manager
2020-01-19T14:48:05 #kisslinux <konimex> but it works with root?
2020-01-19T14:48:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2020-01-19T14:48:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though no input still
2020-01-19T14:48:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The kernel changed a few years ago to populate /dev itself so I don't think this is a device manager issue
2020-01-19T14:49:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This didn't work: https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/274159
2020-01-19T14:49:27 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> wait, so.. if gnu get's fully removed, what takes it's place and what is that OS called?
2020-01-19T14:49:47 #kisslinux <ectlunya> just call it kiss linux
2020-01-19T14:50:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Well, what makes a Linux system a GNU/Linux system?
2020-01-19T14:50:16 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> isn't GNU an OS and Linux a kernel?
2020-01-19T14:50:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS doesn't use GNU coreutils or Glibc
2020-01-19T14:50:27 #kisslinux <ectlunya> each peice of gnu would be replaced by different things so you couldn't really called it something/Linux
2020-01-19T14:50:36 #kisslinux <konimex> TwistedFate: now, define "OS"
2020-01-19T14:50:55 #kisslinux <ectlunya> s/called/call
2020-01-19T14:51:00 #kisslinux <konimex> by some defintion, the kernel *is* the OS
2020-01-19T14:51:20 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> isn't it just the part of the os?
2020-01-19T14:51:48 #kisslinux <konimex> like I said, it depends on your definition of OS
2020-01-19T14:52:03 #kisslinux <konimex> Dennis Ritchie called the kernel "operating system proper" once
2020-01-19T14:52:54 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> but is there a globally accepted definition of an OS?
2020-01-19T14:53:21 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> TwistedFate: not really. It's hard to define
2020-01-19T14:54:08 #kisslinux <ectlunya> doesn't really matter what you all it anyway
2020-01-19T14:54:15 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> LInux is a Kernel. You can then use any utilities, or group of utilities on top of a Kernel to make a useful system
2020-01-19T14:54:52 #kisslinux <ectlunya> without or without GNU, kiss isn't a cohesive operating system. just a way of putting together a lot of simple components
2020-01-19T14:54:59 #kisslinux <konimex> yeah, generally when you said "Linux" people will understand anyway, not much pedantic blokes around here
2020-01-19T14:55:22 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> would it be right to say that an operating system is a collection of programs/software that manages the hardware?
2020-01-19T14:56:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The kernel does the heavy lifting though
2020-01-19T14:56:40 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> ectlunya: exactly. And at the end of the day really any distro becomes this way looking at it in the right light. To me, for examle it becomes more apparent in distros like kiss, alpine, gentoo, etc. there's no rules on what must / must not be included in an OS
2020-01-19T14:56:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: I think the issue is that udev handles the input/video group permissions
2020-01-19T14:57:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Without it, the permissions aren't updated.
2020-01-19T14:57:36 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> TwistedFate: you just gave a decent overall description of a "kernel". and in our case, we're using the Linux kernel
2020-01-19T14:57:40 #kisslinux <konimex> so you need either plain eudev or a replacement (mdev) running
2020-01-19T14:58:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or, we just set the permissions in a portable way from init
2020-01-19T14:58:38 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> pltrz[m]: but one without the other is not really usable and could not be called an os, right?
2020-01-19T15:00:35 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> it really depends what's your use-case :) if you want to run a typical "desktop" in the traditional sense, and want to have all the facilities of that, you probably would have a useless system without some kind of 'coreutils' - whether that be GNU, busybox, toybox, ctools or others
2020-01-19T15:01:35 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> but if you don't need a coreutils, then you don't need a coreutils, doesn't necessaryli make a system useless without
2020-01-19T15:01:55 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> on a different note, having less than 200 packages.. if you guys can do everything or almost everything i can on my distro with 2.5k+ packages, that brings the question.. why are there systems with that much packages? :/
2020-01-19T15:01:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: The code I wrote ages ago for mdev during init does nothing related to the input/video group permissions.
2020-01-19T15:02:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> crw-rw---- 1 root video 226, 0 Jan 19 16:44 /dev/dri/card0
2020-01-19T15:02:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (with udev)
2020-01-19T15:02:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> crw-rw---- 1 root input 13, 32 Jan 19 16:44 mouse0
2020-01-19T15:02:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (with udev)
2020-01-19T15:03:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me check the values without udev.
2020-01-19T15:03:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T15:03:16 #kisslinux <konimex> TwistedFate: probably split packages, or you just have a lot of languages installed right there
2020-01-19T15:03:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> TwistedFate: Which distro?
2020-01-19T15:04:06 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> yup i'd say split packages / a lot of packages in general probably
2020-01-19T15:04:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Some distros enable all dependencies (even optional) for their packages
2020-01-19T15:04:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Arch is one for example)
2020-01-19T15:04:48 #kisslinux <ectlunya> we also probably just use less programs than you
2020-01-19T15:05:00 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> dylanaraps: devuan
2020-01-19T15:05:03 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> unstable
2020-01-19T15:05:14 #kisslinux <ectlunya> if you play games for example there are probably a lot of related packages that contribute to that
2020-01-19T15:05:18 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> granted, i'm using kde/plasma
2020-01-19T15:05:30 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> > kde/plasma
2020-01-19T15:05:32 #kisslinux <konimex> there we go
2020-01-19T15:05:32 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> ye, i got steam and bunch of games
2020-01-19T15:05:37 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> that'll do it
2020-01-19T15:05:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ^
2020-01-19T15:06:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T15:06:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Testing no eudev again
2020-01-19T15:06:36 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> and the funny thing is, i'm not directly using that many programs myself either
2020-01-19T15:06:42 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> just a couple
2020-01-19T15:06:53 #kisslinux <ectlunya> dependencies build up
2020-01-19T15:06:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> heh
2020-01-19T15:07:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I was right
2020-01-19T15:07:01 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> ye, that sucks :/
2020-01-19T15:07:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I may have solved our udev issue
2020-01-19T15:07:11 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> i recently had dependency hell
2020-01-19T15:07:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T15:07:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lets see
2020-01-19T15:07:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> exit
2020-01-19T15:07:27 #kisslinux <letoram> dylanaraps: if you have the possibility, check how it reacts (or doesn't) on monitor hotplug without udev if you get that far
2020-01-19T15:09:35 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> what exactly does xorg do with udev anyways? I was under the impression udev was working on a lower level on the stack and xorg wouldn't even need to interface it
2020-01-19T15:09:41 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> maybe i just have it wrong in my head
2020-01-19T15:10:25 #kisslinux <konimex> xorg needs access to the video stack, the latter's permissions are handled by udev
2020-01-19T15:16:12 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> konimex: gotcha
2020-01-19T15:18:37 #kisslinux <letoram> it 'needs' udev (for evdev / libinput driver backend) for hotplug and the device quirks database. you don't get proper types from evdev, a ps4 controller might get interpreted as a touch display etc.
2020-01-19T15:30:48 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> letoram: understood
2020-01-19T15:31:25 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> does wayland also do this? access device quirks database? for example, wlroots
2020-01-19T15:31:38 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> is that something handled by libinput?
2020-01-19T15:32:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK
2020-01-19T15:33:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Setting groups fixes the video issue (and part of the underlying input issue)
2020-01-19T15:33:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The input is still broken
2020-01-19T15:33:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though I believe this is xorg related
2020-01-19T15:33:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm typing now from xorg+udev but with libinput compiled to not use udev.
2020-01-19T15:34:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Looks like we'll need to use a xorg.conf
2020-01-19T15:36:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> pltrz[m]
2020-01-19T15:36:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xorg itself only uses udev for input devices
2020-01-19T15:36:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> udev sets group permissions on /dev/input/* and /dev/dri/* though
2020-01-19T15:36:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland compositors typically use libinput, yes
2020-01-19T15:37:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> About the monitor, I have no other technology other than this laptop
2020-01-19T15:39:32 #kisslinux <letoram> pltrz[m]: yes
2020-01-19T15:40:12 #kisslinux <letoram> dylanaraps: I don't :P
2020-01-19T15:40:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You don't what??
2020-01-19T15:44:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> bb
2020-01-19T15:44:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb*
2020-01-19T15:47:15 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> i think they mean they have another monitor ?
2020-01-19T15:47:23 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> is that right, @letoram ?
2020-01-19T15:50:16 #kisslinux <letoram> my bnc died so I might have missed some of that, last I saw was me writing 'I don't'
2020-01-19T15:50:38 #kisslinux <konimex> irc backlogs available at /topic
2020-01-19T15:53:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK
2020-01-19T15:54:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xorg just needs to now be told which input devices to use I believe.
2020-01-19T15:55:39 #kisslinux <letoram> pltrz[m]: so I didn't quite get what you meant with about another 'monitor'?
2020-01-19T15:56:22 #kisslinux <letoram> dylanaraps: as in 'I (arcan as a wl compositor) doesn't use libinput'
2020-01-19T15:56:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-19T15:56:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-19T15:58:11 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> I think it was just a total misunderstanding. dylanaraps said "About the monitor, I have no other technology other than this laptop" then you said "dylanaraps: I don't :P" then dylan "You don't what??"
2020-01-19T15:58:26 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> just a bunch of confusion hahaha
2020-01-19T15:58:57 #kisslinux <letoram> ah, confusion cleared :)
2020-01-19T15:59:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2020-01-19T15:59:45 #kisslinux <letoram> the 'other' tactic to not use libinput is to just set a folder, inotify on it and whatever is in there, assume it's an input device the user wants me to take care of (for input hotplug)
2020-01-19T16:00:17 #kisslinux <letoram> and for display events, just use AF_NETLINK and read the events from there, no need for udev/dbus/...
2020-01-19T16:00:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-19T16:01:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I personally don't need a device manager at all as nothing is ever plugged into this laptop
2020-01-19T16:01:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's "static"
2020-01-19T16:01:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I just need to make Xorg play nice with libinput when udev is absent
2020-01-19T16:02:00 #kisslinux <letoram> part of my test/dev-rigs have the mother of all monsters, usb-c based external GPU enclosure
2020-01-19T16:02:48 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> letoram: that is my dream!!!
2020-01-19T16:03:00 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> I have the start of it at least
2020-01-19T16:03:10 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> my only comuter is my laptop
2020-01-19T16:03:18 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> it's got usb-c/thunderbolt 3
2020-01-19T16:03:32 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> so I would love to get an eGPU and monitor
2020-01-19T16:12:09 #kisslinux <letoram> it's a white whale of mine, non-cooperative dynamic gpu hotplug (foss-stack and binary blobs together)
2020-01-19T16:12:18 #kisslinux <letoram> but the list of things to get right ..
2020-01-19T16:32:39 #kisslinux <ectlunya> dylanaraps: idk much about how dbus works but have you thought about implimenting something like plumb to deal with ipc
2020-01-19T16:32:47 #kisslinux <ectlunya> http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/plumb
2020-01-19T16:48:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ectlunya: This isn't up to me as I care not for any kind of IPC bus.
2020-01-19T16:49:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The user has the choice of installing and using whatever they like (given that they do it themselves)
2020-01-19T16:50:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I provide a minimal base and the hard stuff (Rust, web browsers, Xorg, KISS Base, etc)
2020-01-19T16:50:23 #kisslinux <ectlunya> ah
2020-01-19T16:50:54 #kisslinux <ectlunya> for some reason I remember you talking about some need for an IPC system for eiwd
2020-01-19T16:50:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That being said, I'll help anyone wanting to package something generally
2020-01-19T16:51:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For eiwd I'll be using something like netlink, unix domain sockets, etc
2020-01-19T16:52:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Something "built in" basically)
2020-01-19T16:53:18 #kisslinux <ectlunya> plumb doesn't actually exist for linux but it uses a file based system that seems interesting
2020-01-19T16:53:32 #kisslinux <ectlunya> it was used in plan9
2020-01-19T17:11:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Neat
2020-01-19T17:12:55 #kisslinux <pltrz[m]> oh yeah plumb from plan9 is way cool
2020-01-19T17:16:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T17:18:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylanaraps: without udev I think X always requires manual config
2020-01-19T17:18:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> I didn't read everything above did you get falkon without udev to work?
2020-01-19T17:18:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> You can disable udev in qt5-base maybe you have to do that too?
2020-01-19T17:20:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> Mdev/mdevd can be used for permission setting if that's an issue, check out mdev-like-a-boss
2020-01-19T17:26:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> Also I'd maybe recommend using falkon git in general cuz iirc stuff has worked better on git in the past cuz they take a really long time between releases
2020-01-19T17:26:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> Also I'd recommend getting qt5ct so you can set a colour scheme for fusion (default Qt theme) so falkon doesn't look like shit
2020-01-19T17:43:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have mouse working without udev.
2020-01-19T17:43:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Keyboard still doesn't
2020-01-19T17:43:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :D
2020-01-19T17:44:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Be back online once I get both going.
2020-01-19T17:59:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Still no keyboard
2020-01-19T17:59:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xorg finds it, loads libinput and identifies it.. but it doesn't work
2020-01-19T17:59:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will pop all of this on the Wiki afterwards
2020-01-19T18:01:17 #kisslinux <letoram> man 4 evdev <- tried the example there
2020-01-19T18:16:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I figured out the keyboard...
2020-01-19T18:17:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The libinput driver is failing to load its quirks database which contains fixes for my keyboard.
2020-01-19T18:17:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It loads the database fine for the trackpad however.
2020-01-19T18:17:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T18:42:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah, I don't think the libinput fork (which removes udev) has the quirks feature working.
2020-01-19T18:46:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> rip
2020-01-19T18:46:50 #kisslinux <E5ten> you could try evdev + synaptics, evdev requires a tiny amount of modification to remove udev and I think the manual configuration for evdev and libinput probably isn't too different?
2020-01-19T18:48:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> to build xf86-input-evdev without udev you remove the line PKG_CHECK_MODULES(UDEV, libudev) from configure.ac, remove #include <libudev.h> from src/evdev.cm and replace the contents of the function EvdevDeviceIsVirtual with return FALSE; in that same file
2020-01-19T18:48:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-01-19T18:48:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll keep trying with libinput
2020-01-19T18:48:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's a good fallback though
2020-01-19T18:49:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/BoQsc/libinput/commit/33341ddd20103f0ac447ec4beabe17463af89ca9#628b51a45b83f751f0926cf9390e3428fa04726b_1723_1750
2020-01-19T18:49:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Also, failure to initialize the quirks subsystem just means we continue as
2020-01-19T18:49:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> normal. This shouldn't be a hard failure, it just means a lot of devices won't
2020-01-19T18:49:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> work properly.
2020-01-19T18:49:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now to figure out why it isn't working
2020-01-19T18:51:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/oasislinux/libinput/blob/a6f21673e13efc52fff100d315316ba14c6db848/src/quirks.c#L1094-L1107
2020-01-19T18:51:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah
2020-01-19T18:53:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah, quirks are ifdef'd to udev in mforney's fork.
2020-01-19T18:58:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > mforney
2020-01-19T18:58:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> i looked into the feasibility of using udev-less libinput on Xorg. it will work, but you have to configure all your devices manually
2020-01-19T18:58:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I wonder if I can force a quirk via xorg conf files
2020-01-19T19:01:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-19T19:01:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wait
2020-01-19T19:01:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm using libinput without udev support right now
2020-01-19T19:03:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yay. This means it's my fault and I can fix it
2020-01-19T19:17:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> br
2020-01-19T19:17:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> b
2020-01-19T19:53:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So
2020-01-19T19:53:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Weird behavior.
2020-01-19T19:54:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can swap VTs.
2020-01-19T19:54:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But no other input works.
2020-01-19T19:55:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which means that Xorg is receiving my key presses, but only for a VT switch
2020-01-19T20:21:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So, it all works
2020-01-19T20:21:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But is broken in sowm
2020-01-19T21:07:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So, keyboard works now.
2020-01-19T21:07:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But, only if caps lock is on.
2020-01-19T21:08:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm typing now with using shift to invert case.
2020-01-19T21:09:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Also, falkon crashes on exit without udev installed. Any ideas? You run the same kind of setup no?
2020-01-19T21:18:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah
2020-01-19T21:19:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> so you disabled udev in qt5-base, qt5-webengine through sed, and it still does that?
2020-01-19T21:20:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-19T21:20:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have working keyboard now btw!
2020-01-19T21:21:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> any output from the crash?
2020-01-19T21:21:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Literally just: Trace/breakpoint trap
2020-01-19T21:21:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Strace shows that it hits a signal handler which causes it to exit
2020-01-19T21:21:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> get a bt I guess then?
2020-01-19T21:22:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-19T21:22:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Installing eudev right now "fixes" the issue and Falkon works fine
2020-01-19T21:22:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So it's not related to something eudev does during boot
2020-01-19T21:23:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Is my udev removal fine?
2020-01-19T21:23:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> ok so here's a thing I do when there's a problem related to a lib lol, ldd /usr/{bin,lib}/** 2>/dev/null | grep 'libeudev' -B25
2020-01-19T21:23:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> and if -B25 isn't enough to show you the lib linking libeudev increase
2020-01-19T21:24:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thing is, kiss' package manager does this and populates depends files
2020-01-19T21:24:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It would have picked up on it
2020-01-19T21:25:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> qt5 has: -no-libudev
2020-01-19T21:25:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> huh
2020-01-19T21:25:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webengine has: sed -i '/use_udev/s/=.*/=false/'
2020-01-19T21:25:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> in: src/3rdparty/chromium/build/config/features.gni
2020-01-19T21:27:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Interesting: https://github.com/linuxdeepin/flatpak-deepin-runtime/blob/master/qtwebengine-no-udev.patch
2020-01-19T21:27:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me try this.
2020-01-19T21:27:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh I think you also need to sed udev removal on src/buildtools/config/linux.pri
2020-01-19T21:28:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> idk if that patch above has that
2020-01-19T21:28:24 #kisslinux <E5ten> but it's in my build script I just didn't notice it sorry
2020-01-19T21:28:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> that should work too though
2020-01-19T21:28:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2020-01-19T21:28:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks
2020-01-19T21:29:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Turns out most of my keyboard issues were sowm related.
2020-01-19T21:29:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2020-01-19T21:30:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> lol nice
2020-01-19T21:30:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/dylanaraps/sowm/issues/15
2020-01-19T21:30:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > I can't reproduce this at all. Any help is appreciated.
2020-01-19T21:30:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now I have to fix it
2020-01-19T21:33:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > ERROR at //build/config/sanitizers/sanitizers.gni:185:1: Assertion failed.
2020-01-19T21:33:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > is_cfi requires setting is_clang = true in 'gn args'
2020-01-19T21:34:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Interesting
2020-01-19T21:35:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> use sed -i 's/(use_udev=)true/1false/' on that linux.pri file
2020-01-19T21:35:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I see now
2020-01-19T21:35:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I removed the 2020-01-19T21:36:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks again
2020-01-19T21:48:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://termbin.com/bp1i
2020-01-19T21:48:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Disgusting
2020-01-19T21:49:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This *should* fix the sowm issue.
2020-01-19T21:52:50 #kisslinux <letoram> xkb is so much fun, that they kept it in wayland and managed to make it worse is worth a small /golfclap
2020-01-19T21:54:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2020-01-19T21:56:41 #kisslinux <E5ten> How'd they make it worse?
2020-01-19T21:58:19 #kisslinux <letoram> the keymaps gets compiled into a text representation, written to a file, the file descriptor is passed to the client, the client is then responsible for parsing this format and applying raw keyboard presses in order to get what the key 'meant'
2020-01-19T21:58:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also, there's no standard protocol for how the keymap is decided on
2020-01-19T21:58:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's up to the compositor
2020-01-19T21:59:08 #kisslinux <letoram> for the first 7 or so years (think some compositors still do this) the file descriptor is re-used for all clients, and since the pattern is to create in some shared temp folder,
2020-01-19T21:59:21 #kisslinux <letoram> any client could take the descriptor, truncate it and kill keyboard support for everyone
2020-01-19T21:59:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> God
2020-01-19T22:00:05 #kisslinux <letoram> now since the client is responsible for implementing keyrepeat etc. what happens if the server side stalls when the client thinks a button is pressed?
2020-01-19T22:00:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Programs like setxkbmap aren't possible across compositors in a standard way either
2020-01-19T22:00:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNOME uses gsettings, KDE do their thing etc.
2020-01-19T22:01:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland has a classifier for the keymap format no? However, only xkb exists right now.
2020-01-19T22:04:06 #kisslinux <letoram> yeah, none or xkb
2020-01-19T22:25:10 #kisslinux <E5ten> Fun and good
2020-01-19T22:38:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> qtwebengine is done
2020-01-19T22:38:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Am officially udev free
2020-01-19T22:39:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now to test sowm
2020-01-19T22:39:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2020-01-19T23:56:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Finally done
2020-01-19T23:56:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/dylanaraps/sowm/commit/e0d0415d06ee6747a7b4f25d583e6c1fb9f5ca65
2020-01-19T23:56:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is awful
2020-01-19T23:57:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (To ensure that WM keybinds aren't affected by Caps Lock, Num Lock and friends)