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2019-11-17T03:24:51 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> I figured I'd try sowm, but for some reason if I open a terminal, I lose all keybindings instantly. Everything just gets passed to the terminal. Even if I exit the term I have the same issue.
2019-11-17T03:25:03 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Which sucks, cos it was nice whilst it was working...
2019-11-17T06:46:59 #kisslinux <atkka> hello
2019-11-17T06:47:44 #kisslinux <atkka> I haven't had a chance to install kiss yet but was wondering how manpages are handled
2019-11-17T06:48:22 #kisslinux <atkka> the only other musl/busybox distro I've used is alpine which has no manpages by default
2019-11-17T06:49:33 #kisslinux <qtpie> kiss has man installed by default
2019-11-17T06:49:44 #kisslinux <qtpie> a lot of standard manpages are missing though
2019-11-17T06:50:04 #kisslinux <atkka> how would one get them
2019-11-17T06:50:22 #kisslinux <atkka> are they not distributed with the sources?
2019-11-17T06:51:37 #kisslinux <qtpie> i guess packages are being compiled with docs disabled
2019-11-17T06:51:56 #kisslinux <qtpie> you can change the build file to change that flag i guess
2019-11-17T06:53:09 #kisslinux <atkka> ok thanks, I find myself using man pages constantly
2019-11-17T06:53:26 #kisslinux <atkka> it would be hard to live without them
2019-11-17T06:53:52 #kisslinux <atkka> also xfs support?
2019-11-17T06:56:49 #kisslinux <qtpie> you can enable xfs support while configuring the kernel
2019-11-17T06:57:12 #kisslinux <qtpie> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/XFS#Installation
2019-11-17T06:57:58 #kisslinux <qtpie> then you can compile xfsprogs from https://github.com/mtanski/xfsprogs
2019-11-17T06:58:18 #kisslinux <atkka> ok, thanks for the help
2019-11-17T06:58:40 #kisslinux <qtpie> https://github.com/mtanski/xfsprogs/blob/preadv2/doc/INSTALL
2019-11-17T07:06:41 #kisslinux <qtpie> anyone here has some experience with making icons?
2019-11-17T07:07:09 #kisslinux <qtpie> My bootloader looks like this -> https://0x0.st/zErX.png <- right now
2019-11-17T07:07:37 #kisslinux <qtpie> I am using the alpine logo for KISS rn. Would love to have a KISS icon
2019-11-17T07:08:57 #kisslinux <atkka> what are the logo needs? size in px, format etc
2019-11-17T07:09:59 #kisslinux <qtpie> 128x128 png
2019-11-17T07:10:20 #kisslinux <qtpie> this is the arch logo for reference https://0x0.st/z61h.png
2019-11-17T07:15:43 #kisslinux <atkka> ok, I'll see if I can whip something up
2019-11-17T07:16:48 #kisslinux <qtpie> thanks
2019-11-17T07:17:12 #kisslinux <qtpie> for the color, you can use the red color that the windows logo is using
2019-11-17T07:18:58 #kisslinux <atkka> sure np
2019-11-17T07:23:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The logo on the website is lips. :)
2019-11-17T07:24:34 #kisslinux <atkka> I got it!
2019-11-17T07:24:37 #kisslinux <atkka> here you go
2019-11-17T07:26:14 #kisslinux <atkka> https://transfer.sh/JqmbG/kiss.png
2019-11-17T07:26:57 #kisslinux <qtpie> nice!
2019-11-17T07:27:07 #kisslinux <qtpie> let me try applying this
2019-11-17T07:27:17 #kisslinux <atkka> sweet, send a screenshot
2019-11-17T07:30:11 #kisslinux <atkka> dylanaraps: I didn't realize earlier that you were the fff gyu
2019-11-17T07:30:47 #kisslinux <atkka> great work
2019-11-17T07:31:17 #kisslinux <atkka> thanks for the tutorial on making a tui with bash too
2019-11-17T07:32:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No proble. :)
2019-11-17T07:32:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> problem*
2019-11-17T07:33:24 #kisslinux <qtpie> rebooted
2019-11-17T07:33:27 #kisslinux <qtpie> https://0x0.st/z61C.png
2019-11-17T07:33:32 #kisslinux <qtpie> thanks again atkka
2019-11-17T07:33:53 #kisslinux <atkka> nice! np, anytime
2019-11-17T07:33:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That looks pretty good
2019-11-17T07:34:50 #kisslinux <qtpie> btw i switched to sowm
2019-11-17T07:35:02 #kisslinux <qtpie> pretty good
2019-11-17T07:35:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks
2019-11-17T07:35:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> Building: ripgrep
2019-11-17T07:35:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :Dd
2019-11-17T07:35:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :D*
2019-11-17T07:36:56 #kisslinux <atkka> I see that sowm is an itsy bitsy floating wm, would it be less or more to make a tiling wm
2019-11-17T07:37:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> More
2019-11-17T07:37:12 #kisslinux <atkka> ok
2019-11-17T07:37:16 #kisslinux <atkka> just curious
2019-11-17T07:37:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You'd need the tiling logic and some more logic for dialog windows
2019-11-17T07:37:46 #kisslinux <qtpie> i stayed on openbox for a long time mainly because I couldn't get my tiling script to work on sowm
2019-11-17T07:38:00 #kisslinux <qtpie> tmux takes care of tiling now
2019-11-17T07:38:04 #kisslinux <atkka> qtpie: why not use something like dwm
2019-11-17T07:38:17 #kisslinux <atkka> check out dvtm + abduco if you haven't
2019-11-17T07:38:54 #kisslinux <atkka> I really like dvtm + dwm
2019-11-17T07:39:06 #kisslinux <atkka> basically the same workflow whether I start x or not
2019-11-17T07:39:27 #kisslinux <qtpie> how is dvtm different from tmux?
2019-11-17T07:39:34 #kisslinux <qtpie> tmux has auto layouts
2019-11-17T07:40:02 #kisslinux <atkka> well dvtm is basically dwm but in the framebuffer so same workflow etc
2019-11-17T07:40:25 #kisslinux <qtpie> i see
2019-11-17T07:40:48 #kisslinux <atkka> tmux and I just didn't click
2019-11-17T07:41:03 #kisslinux <atkka> when using it as a wm for the terminal
2019-11-17T07:41:38 #kisslinux <qtpie> i'll give dwm another go sometime soon
2019-11-17T07:42:01 #kisslinux <qtpie> last time i tried, i didn't like how i couldn't resize the windows
2019-11-17T07:42:08 #kisslinux <atkka> you can!
2019-11-17T07:42:18 #kisslinux <qtpie> coming from manual tiling, it seemed pretty weird
2019-11-17T07:42:19 #kisslinux <atkka> with the mouse or keybinds
2019-11-17T07:42:30 #kisslinux <qtpie> you need a patch for it right?
2019-11-17T07:42:42 #kisslinux <atkka> no
2019-11-17T07:42:53 #kisslinux <atkka> it has shrink/expand by default
2019-11-17T07:42:59 #kisslinux <qtpie> nice
2019-11-17T07:43:17 #kisslinux <qtpie> i'll give it another then
2019-11-17T07:43:17 #kisslinux <atkka> plus if a window is floating you can resize with the mouse or keys
2019-11-17T07:43:31 #kisslinux <qtpie> i still have my patches and configs saved
2019-11-17T07:44:20 #kisslinux <atkka> I should check out what patches are available
2019-11-17T07:44:26 #kisslinux <atkka> I'm still running vanilla
2019-11-17T07:44:44 #kisslinux <qtpie> I had patches for some extra layouts
2019-11-17T07:46:07 #kisslinux <qtpie> I also had nostatus and pertag
2019-11-17T07:47:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: can you reproduce the issue now?
2019-11-17T08:08:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm working on the first "This week in KISS" post. Any other ideas for what should be included? https://getkiss.org/blog/20191116a
2019-11-17T08:15:47 #kisslinux <atkka> I'm new here but looks good to me
2019-11-17T08:18:28 #kisslinux <atkka> one question about the site, why are the text columns so narrow? is that for mobile or a personal preferance?
2019-11-17T08:19:33 #kisslinux <atkka> I'm on a 1920x1080 display and I have 5" of whitespace on both sides
2019-11-17T08:20:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Text at 65~ characters wide is a lot easier to read.
2019-11-17T08:20:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I also hate when text spans the entire width of my display and I have to turn my head to read a sentence.
2019-11-17T08:21:24 #kisslinux <atkka> fair enough
2019-11-17T08:21:42 #kisslinux <atkka> I don't prefer whole width text either
2019-11-17T08:21:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/108803
2019-11-17T08:22:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > According to studies, the line length should not exceed 70 characters. So keep your paragraph width between 50 and 70 characters.
2019-11-17T08:22:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also
2019-11-17T08:22:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> >
2019-11-17T08:22:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>     An average of 60-70 characters is ideal for desktop viewing.
2019-11-17T08:22:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>     40-50 is more realistic on mobile.
2019-11-17T08:22:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops
2019-11-17T08:23:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wikipedia has more info too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_length
2019-11-17T08:24:09 #kisslinux <atkka> thanks for the info
2019-11-17T08:24:22 #kisslinux <atkka> It is interesting
2019-11-17T08:25:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The studies conflict of course. Some say 100 characters is ideal and others say 50-70~.
2019-11-17T08:25:34 #kisslinux <atkka> I would lean towards longer lines myself, probably aroun 120 off the top of my head
2019-11-17T08:25:37 #kisslinux <atkka> maybe even 150
2019-11-17T08:25:52 #kisslinux <atkka> but I don't use mobile phones or any of that
2019-11-17T08:26:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Neither. I don't own a phone.
2019-11-17T08:26:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2019-11-17T08:26:12 #kisslinux <atkka> I'm more accustomed to what you whould see in textbooks etc
2019-11-17T08:26:31 #kisslinux <atkka> so seeing very narrow text columns seems jarring
2019-11-17T08:26:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A simple user-style can make the site wider.
2019-11-17T08:27:15 #kisslinux <atkka> oh, no its no criticism of your site
2019-11-17T08:27:36 #kisslinux <atkka> I have noticed a trend to more and more whitespace recently though
2019-11-17T08:28:01 #kisslinux <atkka> I figured it had to do with mobile and peoples attention spans etc
2019-11-17T08:28:16 #kisslinux <atkka> I do want to read some of that research though
2019-11-17T08:29:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup, it's interesting.
2019-11-17T08:30:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Single column layouts are on the rise again thanks to mobile.
2019-11-17T08:31:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't have any analytics numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if half the traffic were from mobile devices.
2019-11-17T08:31:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I actually have no traffic stats or the site. :P
2019-11-17T08:31:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Same goes for KISS itself.
2019-11-17T08:31:44 #kisslinux <atkka> yeah I saw that and appreciated it
2019-11-17T08:31:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't know how many users it has at all.
2019-11-17T08:32:05 #kisslinux <atkka> I did have a laugh at your testimonials section
2019-11-17T08:32:21 #kisslinux <atkka> no habla espanol
2019-11-17T08:32:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lol
2019-11-17T08:32:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's great.
2019-11-17T08:33:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've read a lot of comments which are negative towards KISS being *different* in some way.
2019-11-17T08:33:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Were it the same, there'd be no point in it existing though. ;)
2019-11-17T08:34:12 #kisslinux <atkka> exactly, I think its what I'm looking for potentially
2019-11-17T08:34:20 #kisslinux <atkka> I've been using linux for about 12 year
2019-11-17T08:34:31 #kisslinux <atkka> going more and more minimal
2019-11-17T08:34:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You as a user have the choice to install gettext, dbus, systemd etc if you want these though.
2019-11-17T08:34:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The power is in your hands to extend it in whatever way you see fit.
2019-11-17T08:34:55 #kisslinux <atkka> started off with the buntu's and suse's then arch, then void, alpine, kiss
2019-11-17T08:35:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've been using Linux for 7 years now.
2019-11-17T08:35:50 #kisslinux <atkka> everything just seems bloated and overly complex and this is just from a user, not a developer/programmer/coder etc
2019-11-17T08:35:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh yeah
2019-11-17T08:36:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Software as a whole is terrible today.
2019-11-17T08:36:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Software has been riding hardware advancements for years now.
2019-11-17T08:36:37 #kisslinux <atkka> I agree, the web though is what I'm most sad about
2019-11-17T08:36:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T08:36:45 #kisslinux <atkka> I was an 80s kid
2019-11-17T08:36:56 #kisslinux <atkka> had a 28.8k modem early 90s
2019-11-17T08:37:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I miss the dial up sound
2019-11-17T08:37:11 #kisslinux <atkka> early 2000s web 2.0
2019-11-17T08:37:19 #kisslinux <atkka> the web went to shit
2019-11-17T08:37:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sorry, I'll be back in 10.
2019-11-17T08:37:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I agree.
2019-11-17T08:54:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Back
2019-11-17T08:54:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's a user running KISS with glibc, systemd, dbus etc too. https://github.com/fanboimsft/kissD
2019-11-17T08:57:19 #kisslinux <atkka> haha, yeah that's the beauty of foss I guess!
2019-11-17T09:00:13 #kisslinux <atkka> I should get my first kiss install going tomorrow
2019-11-17T09:00:22 #kisslinux <atkka> 2008 macbook
2019-11-17T09:00:46 #kisslinux <atkka> salvaged from a dumpster
2019-11-17T09:01:16 #kisslinux <atkka> in pretty much mint condition minus the battery
2019-11-17T09:04:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-11-17T09:04:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll be back on in a couple of hours.
2019-11-17T11:00:16 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: regarding content for your blog post, here is a screenshot of KISS stress testing my powerpc box ;)  https://ibb.co/Bzx611K
2019-11-17T11:02:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Woah. That's cool.
2019-11-17T11:04:16 #kisslinux <chrempson> thanks - here's a fork with the changes: https://github.com/jdavies-dev/repo
2019-11-17T11:04:38 #kisslinux <chrempson> not really suitable for human consumption yet, still a few issues
2019-11-17T11:04:51 #kisslinux <chrempson> mainly rust, since they don't support ppcle64 musl very well
2019-11-17T11:05:02 #kisslinux <chrempson> which means no firefox.  but apart from that, it's great!
2019-11-17T11:05:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Amazing work :)
2019-11-17T11:06:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So I'd advertise a KISS fork available for ppc64le?
2019-11-17T11:06:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It'd be nice to also know if there's anything small I can do on my end to help (short of cross-compilation).
2019-11-17T11:08:35 #kisslinux <chrempson> yeah, it's for ppc64le.  Maybe I should build a tarball like you have for x86?  How would I do that?
2019-11-17T11:09:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The tarball is simply a chroot. It's a KISS system with a base set of packages, no kernel and no bootloader.
2019-11-17T11:10:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can set KISS_ROOT to point to an empty directory and install packages to it starting with baselayout.
2019-11-17T11:11:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hm. I may need to make some changes on my end for this.
2019-11-17T11:11:30 #kisslinux <chrempson> aah ok.  Will do that and upload to github.  Will also start adding notes to the README.md with ppc64le-specific notes
2019-11-17T11:11:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll fix the issues on my end so this works in a straightforward and easy way.
2019-11-17T11:12:03 #kisslinux <chrempson> had to make some changes to community also, so will have to fork that also
2019-11-17T11:12:07 #kisslinux <chrempson> ok nice!
2019-11-17T11:12:10 #kisslinux <chrempson> thanks
2019-11-17T11:12:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Actually, this works now:
2019-11-17T11:12:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS_ROOT=~/testroot KISS_FORCE=1 kiss i ~/.cache/kiss/bin/baselayout#1-6.tar.gz
2019-11-17T11:12:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ~/testroot is an empty directory. KISS_FORCE skips dependency checks and kiss install takes a direct path to a built binary.
2019-11-17T11:13:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The list of packages can be seen here: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/releases/tag/1.3.2
2019-11-17T11:14:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The order shouldn't matter so long as baselayout is installed first.
2019-11-17T11:14:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The one issue is if you've used '-march=native'. If you have then what you can do is chroot into it afterwards (using kiss-chroot) and rebuild all of the packages.
2019-11-17T11:15:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The only tedious part is building the initial tarball.
2019-11-17T11:15:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Once you've done this, all you need to do is run 'kiss update' from it every now and then. :)
2019-11-17T11:15:35 #kisslinux <chrempson> so I go through each package in core and install to the directory that way...
2019-11-17T11:15:45 #kisslinux <chrempson> built it with -march=power9
2019-11-17T11:16:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not each package in core, the list from the link to 1.3.2.
2019-11-17T11:16:08 #kisslinux <chrempson> aah ok
2019-11-17T11:16:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's 23 packages in total. :)
2019-11-17T11:17:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll work on making this easier. :)
2019-11-17T11:17:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You've done the hardest part by porting it over though!
2019-11-17T11:18:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> To ease the burden on maintaining the repos in their entirety you can just keep the packages you've changed and tell users to set your repo _before_ the official ones in KISS_PATH.
2019-11-17T11:18:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can also use symlinks to the official packages to only keep track of the files you have personally changed.
2019-11-17T11:19:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For example, the sources, depends and version files could be symlinks pointing to /var/db/kiss/repo/core/pkg_name.
2019-11-17T11:19:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS_PATH would be: KISS_PATH=/path/to/ppc64le-repo
2019-11-17T11:19:49 #kisslinux <chrempson> that sounds a lot easier!  so in my repo I'd just have the packages I've changed, and by putting that repo before the others it will choose my version of the package first?
2019-11-17T11:19:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T11:19:58 #kisslinux <chrempson> even though they will exist in more than one repo?
2019-11-17T11:20:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2019-11-17T11:20:04 #kisslinux <chrempson> ok that's cool
2019-11-17T11:20:07 #kisslinux <chrempson> will go that route
2019-11-17T11:20:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Works exactly like '$PATH'.
2019-11-17T11:20:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Uses the first match.
2019-11-17T11:20:15 #kisslinux <chrempson> got it
2019-11-17T11:20:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> symlinks will reduce the burden further.
2019-11-17T11:20:32 #kisslinux <chrempson> do you build packages as your own user?
2019-11-17T11:20:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup.
2019-11-17T11:20:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> root isn't needed during builds.
2019-11-17T11:21:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For updating the tarballs, I build in a chroot though.
2019-11-17T11:21:12 #kisslinux <chrempson> but the package manager calls sudo, which could allow for naughtiness?
2019-11-17T11:21:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Only on 'kiss install'/'kiss remove'.
2019-11-17T11:21:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> When it needs permissions for the filesystem.
2019-11-17T11:22:49 #kisslinux <chrempson> would be nice to have something like in freebsd's poudriere, where it creates a fake root, installs all packges into it and then builds - so it doesn't require installing packages on the host during a build
2019-11-17T11:23:13 #kisslinux <chrempson> maybe using unlink or something
2019-11-17T11:23:24 #kisslinux <chrempson> I think you can call that without  needing root?
2019-11-17T11:23:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Once you have a working chroot you can build in there for your host too.
2019-11-17T11:23:39 #kisslinux <chrempson> anyway, that's for some other time ;)
2019-11-17T11:23:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T11:24:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Basically, pairing both the 'KISS_PATH' trick and symlinks, you could limit your repository to only tracking the 14 files you have currently changed. :)
2019-11-17T11:25:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You'd have to also not symlink the checksums if any files/ or patches/ have changed but the package manager generates these for you.
2019-11-17T11:27:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For the blog post, would it be right to say something along the lines of "Work started on a ppc64le version of KISS"?
2019-11-17T11:27:25 #kisslinux <chrempson> sure
2019-11-17T11:28:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Awesome. I should have that post out sometime today.
2019-11-17T11:28:54 #kisslinux <chrempson> any special flags needed on the tar command?  or just tar -zcvf  ?
2019-11-17T11:29:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> tar cf - directory/ | xz -z -T 0 - > directory.tar.xz
2019-11-17T11:29:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's what I use.
2019-11-17T11:30:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's better if it's done as root too as I've seen some tar implementations mess around with the resulting permissions when run as a normal user.
2019-11-17T11:30:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> tar tvf directory.tar.xz can be used afterwards to verify all files/directories are owned by root.
2019-11-17T11:35:56 #kisslinux <atkka> chrempson: are you on a talos?
2019-11-17T11:36:04 #kisslinux <chrempson> atkka: yes
2019-11-17T11:36:25 #kisslinux <atkka> sweet!
2019-11-17T11:37:26 #kisslinux <atkka> I saw all those threads!
2019-11-17T11:38:31 #kisslinux <chrempson> ok, have built the tarball.  Github won't let me upload it since it's >25MB so will set up a space somewhere else in case anyone else wants to test it
2019-11-17T11:39:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GitHub lets me upload larger tarballs. Hm
2019-11-17T11:39:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How long does GCC take to compile by the way?
2019-11-17T11:40:35 #kisslinux <chrempson> can't remember, will do it again now.  You want it with or without bootstrap?
2019-11-17T11:41:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Without bootstrap.
2019-11-17T11:41:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Takes around 30 minutes on my machine.
2019-11-17T11:41:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> cpu: Intel i7-6500U (4) @ 3.100GHz
2019-11-17T11:42:35 #kisslinux <chrempson> building now with --disable-bootstrap, -j150
2019-11-17T11:42:57 #kisslinux <atkka> dylanaraps: is that a two core four thread i7?!
2019-11-17T11:43:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T11:43:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Funny right?
2019-11-17T11:43:19 #kisslinux <atkka> I didn't know they existed!
2019-11-17T11:43:36 #kisslinux <atkka> I'm running a 4 core i5 from 2015
2019-11-17T11:43:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The laptop i7s follow different logic to the desktop ones.
2019-11-17T11:43:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Probably to sell more. ;)
2019-11-17T11:43:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo an i7
2019-11-17T11:43:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops
2019-11-17T11:43:58 #kisslinux <konimex> -j150, man that cpu would cry
2019-11-17T11:44:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> only 2 cores
2019-11-17T11:45:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: Oh yeah, does the site work now? I got a hold of a phone and fixed it.
2019-11-17T11:45:37 #kisslinux <chrempson> done: real    3m 43.42s
2019-11-17T11:45:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Beautiful
2019-11-17T11:47:44 #kisslinux <konimex> two secs
2019-11-17T11:48:34 #kisslinux <konimex> https://i.imgur.com/qd6nglV.png uh... nope
2019-11-17T11:48:47 #kisslinux <konimex> depending on what "work" means
2019-11-17T11:49:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> wew. Thanks for testing it again.
2019-11-17T11:49:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I fixed similar issues on someone's iPhone.
2019-11-17T11:50:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Still broken on Android.
2019-11-17T11:53:02 #kisslinux <konimex> it's somewhat surprising that the only real changes needed (for core anyway) is changing the triplet for the toolchain
2019-11-17T11:53:21 #kisslinux <konimex> but it's probably because of the "native" build
2019-11-17T11:53:40 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: have put the tarball here:  https://github.com/jdavies-dev/kiss-ppc64le-dist
2019-11-17T11:53:50 #kisslinux <chrempson> in case any other ppc users come in here who want to test it
2019-11-17T11:54:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Awesome. Will direct those wanting to test there.
2019-11-17T11:55:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: Try now.
2019-11-17T11:56:57 #kisslinux <qtpie> did anyone get w3m to build?
2019-11-17T11:57:19 #kisslinux <qtpie> after applying 2 patches to make it compile it throwing linking errors
2019-11-17T11:57:28 #kisslinux <qtpie> it is*
2019-11-17T11:57:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What are the errors?
2019-11-17T11:57:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ncurses related?
2019-11-17T11:57:48 #kisslinux <konimex> a little bit of padding to the left, but still https://i.imgur.com/5LVJA9u.png
2019-11-17T11:59:43 #kisslinux <qtpie> terms.c:(.text+0x498d): undefined reference to `tputs'
2019-11-17T12:00:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You may need to make it link to ncursesw.
2019-11-17T12:00:26 #kisslinux <qtpie> cool
2019-11-17T12:01:10 #kisslinux <qtpie> those errors got resolved
2019-11-17T12:01:17 #kisslinux <qtpie> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-musl/9.2.0/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-musl/bin/ld: w3mimg/w3mimg.a(x11_w3mimg.o): undefined reference to symbol 'XGetWindowAttributes'
2019-11-17T12:01:26 #kisslinux <qtpie> i have this now
2019-11-17T12:01:52 #kisslinux <qtpie> lX11?
2019-11-17T12:01:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yup
2019-11-17T12:02:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Seems to be missing.
2019-11-17T12:03:06 #kisslinux <qtpie> after adding -lX11 the tputs, tgoto errors are back :/
2019-11-17T12:03:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How did you add them?
2019-11-17T12:03:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How did you add -lX11*
2019-11-17T12:03:54 #kisslinux <qtpie> edited the makefile and added -lX11 -lncursesw to the IMGLDFLAGS variable
2019-11-17T12:04:07 #kisslinux <konimex> I think it's better if you see how other distros build them first before you add them yourself since it might give you a good idea of what should've been added
2019-11-17T12:04:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Void doesn't add any patches or change linker flags.
2019-11-17T12:04:41 #kisslinux <konimex> buuuut they have  --with-termlib=ncurses in their configure flags
2019-11-17T12:04:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T12:05:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> --with-termlib=ncursesw should work
2019-11-17T12:05:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: Try the site now.
2019-11-17T12:06:28 #kisslinux <qtpie> adding that configure flag got rid of those two errors but I have a new one now
2019-11-17T12:06:31 #kisslinux <qtpie> url.c:(.text+0x5ad): undefined reference to `RAND_egd'
2019-11-17T12:08:12 #kisslinux <konimex> goddamn imgur is slow on mobile
2019-11-17T12:08:15 #kisslinux <konimex> two secs
2019-11-17T12:08:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sed -i'' '/define USE_EGD/d' config.h
2019-11-17T12:08:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That'll fix it.
2019-11-17T12:08:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not sure if it needs to be config.h.in or not.
2019-11-17T12:08:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is a libressl compat issue.
2019-11-17T12:10:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Source: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=191956
2019-11-17T12:11:54 #kisslinux <konimex> you know, I think anything kiss-related is cursed on chromium-related programs https://i.imgur.com/QT8NQLq.png
2019-11-17T12:12:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> chrempson: I forgot to tell you and this entirely my fault but the tarball needs to include /proc, /sys and /dev. Apologies.
2019-11-17T12:12:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What I'll do is make kiss-chroot create these if they don't exist.
2019-11-17T12:12:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: AHHHHHHH
2019-11-17T12:13:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Is anything wider than the body?
2019-11-17T12:13:14 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: aah ok, was just installing the packages into a regular empty directory
2019-11-17T12:13:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> chrempson: I also get tar errors on extraction.
2019-11-17T12:13:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not sure if this is busybox tar or an upload issue.
2019-11-17T12:13:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or a download issue on my end.
2019-11-17T12:13:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just a heads up.
2019-11-17T12:13:44 #kisslinux <chrempson> what were the errors?
2019-11-17T12:13:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> tar: corrupted data
2019-11-17T12:13:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> tar: short read
2019-11-17T12:13:57 #kisslinux <qtpie> done
2019-11-17T12:13:59 #kisslinux <chrempson> I'll try extracting on my x86 box
2019-11-17T12:13:59 #kisslinux <qtpie> thanks
2019-11-17T12:14:03 #kisslinux <konimex> nope, the widest one is the black background in the header and the footer
2019-11-17T12:14:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The header and footer span the entire width?
2019-11-17T12:14:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Are the code blocks still wider than the text (even if slightly)?
2019-11-17T12:16:32 #kisslinux <konimex> https://i.postimg.cc/d1gpQ7ds/Screenshot-20191117-191504-Chrome.png I can't give judgement on the second one so I'll send the screenshot instead, but the answer to the first one is no
2019-11-17T12:17:02 #kisslinux <konimex> https://i.postimg.cc/rVpkJxwr/Screenshot-20191117-191504-Chrome.png clearer shot
2019-11-17T12:17:35 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: on my windows box I downloaded the file in Firefox, then in a cygwin term I did:  unxz kiss-ppc64le.tar.xz.  Then tar -zvf kiss-ppc64le.tar.  It extracted OK, though I see everything is still in the "testroot" directory - that isn't right
2019-11-17T12:17:51 #kisslinux <chrempson> sorry, "tar -xvf ..."
2019-11-17T12:18:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's right.
2019-11-17T12:18:12 #kisslinux <chrempson> but the archive itself seemed ok
2019-11-17T12:18:18 #kisslinux <chrempson> not corrupted
2019-11-17T12:18:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Our tarballs extract to a directory too (called kiss-chroot/).
2019-11-17T12:18:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK. Must be on my end.
2019-11-17T12:18:37 #kisslinux <konimex> man it's hard to find an imgur alternative that is not a complete meme
2019-11-17T12:18:48 #kisslinux <konimex> but that would do
2019-11-17T12:19:08 #kisslinux <chrempson> also it had a dev and proc directory?
2019-11-17T12:20:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh good.
2019-11-17T12:20:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Issue is entirely mine then.
2019-11-17T12:20:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Apologies.
2019-11-17T12:20:59 #kisslinux <chrempson> no probs - so the tarball I uploaded is ok for now?
2019-11-17T12:22:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup. Seems fine. Does /etc/profile.d/kiss_path.sh point to your repository and is your repository installed anywhere?
2019-11-17T12:22:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The file is in the kiss package for reference.
2019-11-17T12:22:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You could instead direct users to clone it and manually set it.
2019-11-17T12:23:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Up to you.
2019-11-17T12:23:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> One less thing you need to modify.
2019-11-17T12:24:36 #kisslinux <chrempson> good point - I'm manually setting it right now.  Will think about what to do there...
2019-11-17T12:28:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: Try now...
2019-11-17T12:31:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Our website is #1 on lobsters right now.
2019-11-17T12:31:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh
2019-11-17T12:31:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can't even make an account to reply to comments.
2019-11-17T12:31:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Signup is invite only.
2019-11-17T12:32:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Joining #lobsters :P
2019-11-17T12:32:25 #kisslinux <konimex> https://i.postimg.cc/BJD8X2dx/Screenshot-20191117-192949-Chrome.png
2019-11-17T12:32:27 #kisslinux <konimex> nope
2019-11-17T12:32:31 #kisslinux <konimex> boy what a secret club
2019-11-17T12:34:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > For an invite, see https://lobste.rs/chat and tell us what you'd like to contribute
2019-11-17T12:38:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > I'm pretty sure you're not a spammer so I can probably extend an invite.
2019-11-17T12:38:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > What are you aiming to respond to in the discussion?
2019-11-17T12:38:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Really...
2019-11-17T12:40:09 #kisslinux <konimex> https://0x0.st/z6jh.png alright I got this thing working in my void chromium, what should I look for
2019-11-17T12:40:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-11-17T12:40:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> pre>code is the selector.
2019-11-17T12:40:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (In the CSS)
2019-11-17T12:41:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try messing with:   width: calc(90vw - 40px);
2019-11-17T12:41:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Set it lower and lower and see if it works.
2019-11-17T12:46:07 #kisslinux <konimex> http://0x0.st/z6jC.png looks normal from just a highlight
2019-11-17T12:46:24 #kisslinux <konimex> http://0x0.st/z6er.png but disabling the transform gives me this
2019-11-17T12:46:26 #kisslinux <konimex> so might be related
2019-11-17T12:47:11 #kisslinux <konimex> ah there we go, two secs
2019-11-17T12:49:14 #kisslinux <konimex> http://0x0.st/z6es.png so somehow disabling the font somehow worked
2019-11-17T12:49:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Interesting.
2019-11-17T12:50:44 #kisslinux <konimex> actually, scratch that
2019-11-17T12:52:30 #kisslinux <konimex> i think it's better to rewrite the whole pre>code css to not include those transform things since I'm sure *that* also affect the screen in chrome
2019-11-17T12:52:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The images use it too though.
2019-11-17T12:52:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And they work right?
2019-11-17T12:53:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> On the screenshots page.
2019-11-17T12:53:31 #kisslinux <konimex> let's see
2019-11-17T12:54:06 #kisslinux <konimex> oh right they do
2019-11-17T12:54:15 #kisslinux <konimex> so it's pre>code specific
2019-11-17T12:54:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me push a fix for fonts.
2019-11-17T12:55:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try now.
2019-11-17T12:57:09 #kisslinux <konimex> disabling the font and disabling-and-reenabling the padding somehow "rebugged it", that's before I reloaded the page to try your changes
2019-11-17T12:57:17 #kisslinux <konimex> https://0x0.st/z6ez.png
2019-11-17T12:57:24 #kisslinux <konimex> but... nope, doesn't work after all
2019-11-17T13:06:43 #kisslinux <konimex> alright, i've been playing with your css for a bit
2019-11-17T13:08:50 #kisslinux <konimex> https://0x0.st/z6e8.png looks like removing max-width, position, transform finally made it work
2019-11-17T13:08:59 #kisslinux <konimex> however i don't know the effects on other browsers
2019-11-17T13:09:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've fixed it but we lose the extra wide blocks.
2019-11-17T13:09:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will push.
2019-11-17T13:09:57 #kisslinux <konimex> alright
2019-11-17T13:11:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try now.
2019-11-17T13:14:26 #kisslinux <konimex> alright, finally it's fixed! https://0x0.st/z6eN.png
2019-11-17T13:15:32 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> css is a blast isn't it
2019-11-17T13:15:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oh yeah
2019-11-17T13:15:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The web is so much fun
2019-11-17T13:15:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :(
2019-11-17T13:15:58 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> I'm crazy, I actually like doing js/css
2019-11-17T13:16:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I like the optimization aspects.
2019-11-17T13:16:23 #kisslinux <konimex> debugging phone problems via computer is actually interesting
2019-11-17T13:16:34 #kisslinux <konimex> but, a bit hard
2019-11-17T13:16:45 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> I like making beautiful and functional things on the web. but yeah the web is a giant mess
2019-11-17T13:20:06 #kisslinux <konimex> > So, you’re copying the same style over to all other pages and everyone has to load it n times (n being the number of pages visited). This is only an “optimisation” if one loads a single page. Surely, having it in a dedicated .css file, and taking advantage of browser cashing would have been better, no?
2019-11-17T13:20:31 #kisslinux <konimex> > I’d also mention that one would need to rebuild each and every .html file if style is to be changed - again, not taking advantage of caching (neither CSS nor HTML!).
2019-11-17T13:26:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This isn't the case here though.
2019-11-17T13:27:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If each page is only 3-5KB, it's faster this way.
2019-11-17T13:27:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Google recommend putting critical CSS in your '<head>'. Our CSS is so small that we can put the entirety in the head. ;)
2019-11-17T13:29:37 #kisslinux <konimex> rebuilding is also negligible since come on it's not like we're deploying some full-stack application on docker
2019-11-17T13:29:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T13:30:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rebuild takes no time at all.
2019-11-17T13:53:23 #kisslinux <claudia> when I create a package and cp stuff around in buildfile, is it possible to track these and add to the manifest?
2019-11-17T13:59:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All files added to '$1' go in the manifest.
2019-11-17T14:00:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The DESTDIR location.
2019-11-17T14:00:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Think of '$1' as a mini system. If you want to add something to '/usr/bin', create '$1/usr/bin' and etc.
2019-11-17T14:14:43 #kisslinux <claudia> ah nice, now i understand the meaning of this variable
2019-11-17T14:16:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> When you run 'kiss install' the tarball containing '$1/usr/bin' is extracted to '/'. There are a few more steps inbetween but this is the gist of it
2019-11-17T14:58:18 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> Hey there :]
2019-11-17T15:00:30 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> I have been bitten by the chase of minimalism quite some time ago and found KISS over the exellent article of minimizing KISS's website. I do wonder about the exclusion of wayland from KISS. Isn't this backwards? Wayland seems quite a bunch simplier in design that X...
2019-11-17T15:15:22 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> I think partially because Wayland requires X anyways
2019-11-17T15:15:27 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> so it's not necessarily simple
2019-11-17T15:16:09 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> but I could be wrong about that
2019-11-17T15:17:35 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: Wayland does not require X, X is needed for the backwards compatiblity function of Wayland "XWayland"
2019-11-17T15:18:04 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: There are a bunch of guys on the Wayland channels setting up Wayland-only systems
2019-11-17T15:18:08 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> that's what I meant, sorry
2019-11-17T15:19:04 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: I switched to using the window manager "sway" and so far all the customization and how input works is definetly simplier I'd say.
2019-11-17T15:19:19 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: (as compared to X11)
2019-11-17T15:19:30 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> yeah I've used sway before and liked it
2019-11-17T15:19:41 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> I'm not speaking for KISS, just myself
2019-11-17T15:19:53 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> I've thought about attempting to build Wayland and adding it to the community repo as well
2019-11-17T15:21:19 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: It builds very easily. No crazy dependencies as the historical baggage of X. A rewrite does wonders. But enough of wayland shilling from me :P   I do wonder about the reason of inclusion of Wayland in the specifically exluded packages to satisfy the KISS philosophy...
2019-11-17T15:22:32 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> *inclusion in the exluded list. I'm a grammar master this evening =.=
2019-11-17T15:22:38 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> VladTheImplier: yeah I just built https://github.com/wayland-project/wayland easily enough on  I'll try building Weston next and running it
2019-11-17T15:22:50 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> *easily enough on KISS
2019-11-17T15:23:15 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: Keep in my mind, that weston is the reference WM / Compositor. Refernce implementations always suck a bit :P
2019-11-17T15:24:12 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> yeah I know. just figured it would be a good test if Wayland worked at all :p
2019-11-17T15:28:21 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> weston requires libsystemd :(
2019-11-17T15:28:57 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: Damn you weston :P  I don't know about weston, but sway can be specifically build without any systemd parts.
2019-11-17T15:29:12 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> really? I'll give sway a shot. doesn't it need wlroots as well?
2019-11-17T15:29:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> wayland requires libffi, that's what I call an extra dep I otherwise wouldn't have :(
2019-11-17T15:30:38 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: wlroots is like the compositor baseline that was written, to make many WM / Compositors have compatible tools. And yeah it needs to be built. Also quick and easy though.
2019-11-17T15:30:54 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> ok trying that out now
2019-11-17T15:32:29 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> Here are the details regarding systemd ( https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/Running-Sway-without-systemd ) E5ten: To be fair, once you remove X in favor of Wayland you lose a bunch of X's dependencies...
2019-11-17T15:35:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can't totally remove X yet though.
2019-11-17T15:35:21 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> latest wlroots release has a bug
2019-11-17T15:35:32 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> it's been fixed but a new released hasn't been made yet
2019-11-17T15:36:18 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: You sure O.o  I'm pretty sure I have done it on another laptop already...
2019-11-17T15:36:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you don't need anything unsupported/unported then sure.
2019-11-17T15:37:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you don't use any missing functionality, you're also right.
2019-11-17T15:37:27 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Yeah, that's the point. Many use Wayland-exclusive applications
2019-11-17T15:37:39 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> are the major browsers able to run without X?
2019-11-17T15:37:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox on Wayland still has bugs.
2019-11-17T15:37:42 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Firefox is wayland friendly.
2019-11-17T15:37:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I keep up to date with their tracker.
2019-11-17T15:37:54 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: Also Qutebrowser
2019-11-17T15:38:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Compositing is something I don't want either for example.
2019-11-17T15:39:12 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: That's a design thing. The words have changed it's meaning. Sway is not a windows manager, but a compositor, even though it makes zero sense calling it that. Compositing takes on a different role in wayland. It all comes down to the design philosopy of "Every frame is perfect"
2019-11-17T15:39:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sway isn't just a compositor, it's fairer to call it a display server.
2019-11-17T15:40:12 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: In wayland's (aweful) lingo, ALL window managers are "Servers" and all windows are "clients"
2019-11-17T15:40:32 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> All terms were shuffeled around for maximum confusion ^^
2019-11-17T15:40:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My problem with Wayland is that it isn't a replacement for Xorg but a different thing entirely (not a bad thing). Were it a 1:1 swap, sure. But it's not.
2019-11-17T15:41:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> qutebrowser, more like uglybadser (kill me)
2019-11-17T15:41:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My problem comes from it being touted as a replacement.
2019-11-17T15:41:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> but also unironically the browser is trash
2019-11-17T15:41:43 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: True. The differece stems from the "every frame is perfect" goal. No tearing from a design level requires a lot to be totally rewritten. E5ten: You still got firefox ;]
2019-11-17T15:41:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> a browser written in python? seriously?
2019-11-17T15:41:56 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> yeah not a fan of that
2019-11-17T15:42:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah but then I have to use gtk
2019-11-17T15:42:49 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: No xrandr, no more mouse/keyboard handled by the another component, all configs in once place with wayland's WM at the center. It's all different.
2019-11-17T15:43:00 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> Im on qutebrowser, was the lesser evil in terms of deps
2019-11-17T15:43:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But these differ per wayland implementation, no?
2019-11-17T15:43:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> xrandr at least works on anything running under Xorg.
2019-11-17T15:43:29 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: No. wl-roots was written to prevent that.
2019-11-17T15:43:46 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> and its hinting model is great, thats about it whats great about qutebrowser tho :)
2019-11-17T15:43:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> "no they don't differ per implementation, this one implementation was written to prevent that"
2019-11-17T15:43:50 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Most tools should be shared across WMs.
2019-11-17T15:44:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Right, but wlroots is different to GNOME, KDE and any other wayland libs anyone else writes.
2019-11-17T15:44:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland can't have window managers.
2019-11-17T15:44:59 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: True. GNOME just ported the backend. KDE isn't even done yet. But the rest of wayland world should be on the same page. copy-paste, remote sessions, Screen recording, screenshots it all should be done the same way. And is for the WM's I tried....
2019-11-17T15:45:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Are all of these protocols standardized under FreeDesktop (or whoever is handling the standards)?
2019-11-17T15:45:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How many extensions does each "major" implementation use?
2019-11-17T15:46:53 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: I don't actually know... that's something the #wayland guys definetly know. wl-roots should keep all wayland WM's on the same page regardless of standards, but that is a great question. I'm interested in that as well...
2019-11-17T15:47:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland seems like a step backward in choice to me. Instead we'll have monolithic pillars which may or may not be compatible with each other.
2019-11-17T15:47:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> ok but like what happens if/when one chooses not to use wl-roots?
2019-11-17T15:47:19 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Wayland totally has window managers, it's just that the meaning of the word has changed.
2019-11-17T15:47:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Uh..
2019-11-17T15:47:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The moment something does more than manage windows, it isn't a window manager.
2019-11-17T15:48:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> 2 + 2 totally equals 5, it's just that the meaning of the number 5 has changed
2019-11-17T15:48:16 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Yeah. Which is why Wayland uhh... WIndow managers don't call themselves window managers but compositors. It toatlly confused the crap out of me in the beginning^^
2019-11-17T15:48:26 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm not saying your point is necessarily that ridiculous but that's how ridiculous the phrasing was
2019-11-17T15:48:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But they aren't compositors either. They're reallt display servers.
2019-11-17T15:48:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> compton is a compositor for example.
2019-11-17T15:48:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It handles... compositing
2019-11-17T15:49:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> really*
2019-11-17T15:49:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah I don't know why they decided on the word compositor
2019-11-17T15:49:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> even less accurate than window manager honestly
2019-11-17T15:49:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> From wlroots: [...] or about 50,000 lines of code you were going to write anyway.
2019-11-17T15:50:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This seems like a step backward to me.
2019-11-17T15:50:21 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: heh.. but these packages call themselves compositors, because wayland just redifined the words, because the don't work the same way with the redisign. I'm not a fan of it either... Website url is called "swaywm" https://swaywm.org/ but the first paragraph says it's a compositor^^
2019-11-17T15:51:39 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> E5ten: With the changed design the terms really don't mean the same anymore. dylanaraps: 50000k of stuff that usually is done by the driver with accelerations schemes like SNA and dependant on hardware hacks. Now it's all done in one way.
2019-11-17T15:51:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah I don't really get that at all, the point is to keep the wayland protocol light and leave it up to implementations, but what naturally happened because of that? aside from 2 big DEs doing their own thing, everyone is just using the same implementation of all the stuff, and it's really the same as it was under X...
2019-11-17T15:52:11 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> ugh wlroots requires ctags which only builds releases for windows and SNAP releases for linux. no thanks.
2019-11-17T15:52:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> what's ctags?
2019-11-17T15:52:57 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> aminoglycine: Sway and by extension runs on (all?) flavors of BSD except openBSD, so I'm pretty sure that's inacurate
2019-11-17T15:53:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He meant the pre-built releases.
2019-11-17T15:53:20 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> E5ten: ctags are a documentation feature, which allows Text-editors to browse C code.
2019-11-17T15:53:20 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> yeah I'm just trying to figure out the best way to potentially package up ctags in the future
2019-11-17T15:53:36 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Jump to function definitions and the sorts...
2019-11-17T15:54:03 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> Runs even on DragonFlyBSD, which is my lovebird <3
2019-11-17T15:54:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/Running-Sway-without-systemd
2019-11-17T15:54:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The fact that this page needs to exist worries me too.
2019-11-17T15:55:05 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> dylanaraps would you ever consider allowing a git commit hash as a package source or would that introduce too many problems?
2019-11-17T15:55:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> aminoglycine: Depends on the context.
2019-11-17T15:56:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Any fixes not yet in the latest release can be backported through patches.
2019-11-17T15:56:27 #kisslinux <aminoglycine> ah yeah good call
2019-11-17T15:56:35 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: True, that has been a fight with the sway devs and it's users. But it runs just fine without. Also perfect on BSD, so I don't know what the systemd reference even does in the first place...
2019-11-17T15:56:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If we're talking about something major like xf86-video-intel then it makes more sense to ship a git version.
2019-11-17T15:57:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sway can run under suid but... > using setuid has serious security implications.
2019-11-17T15:57:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> wait so the ways to run sway are setuid, which isn't good, logind, which obviously people here don't want to use, or having the admin capability which is basically giving it a ton of power like setuid?
2019-11-17T15:57:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> From the Sway Wiki linked above.
2019-11-17T15:57:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: yes
2019-11-17T15:58:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't get why it needs the admin capabilities if the user is already in the video and input groups
2019-11-17T15:58:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which is why those groups exist..
2019-11-17T16:02:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I also don't like the wlroots stance on NVIDIA. Kinda goes against the "unopinionated modules" feature of wlroots.
2019-11-17T16:03:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> I genuinely hate ddevault and it's because of his post about nvidia
2019-11-17T16:03:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> (and since then that was added to with the issues made on kiss)
2019-11-17T16:03:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This basically boils down to NVIDIA not supporting GBM but supporting something different. And the wlroots devs don't want to support it just for NVIDIA.
2019-11-17T16:05:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So if I'm a NVIDIA user???
2019-11-17T16:05:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm not even talking about the technical side, like if you don't wanna do the work to support nvidia's thing whatever, but the "And proprietary driver users have the gall to reward Nvidia for their behavior by giving them hundreds of dollars for their GPUs, then come to me and ask me to deal with their bullshit for free. Well, fuck you, too. Nvidia users are shitty consumers and I don’t even want them in my userbase. Choos
2019-11-17T16:05:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> hardware that supports your software, not the other way around." is just a garbage way to talk about users
2019-11-17T16:05:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T16:07:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Wayland is flourishing - everywhere except among Nvidia proprietary driver users. In reality it's them who are dying on their hill, left behind on crappy old software.
2019-11-17T16:07:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > You're correct that Nvidia proprietary driver users are unwelcome. We lay this out explicitly in our GitHub issue template, in fact. If you use that Intel GPU instead we'll get along swimmingly.
2019-11-17T16:07:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > If the nvidia module is loaded on your system, you are not permitted to file bugs of any sort
2019-11-17T16:08:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah that's a guy who's software I'll never be using ever
2019-11-17T16:08:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'd be ashamed to be in his userbase
2019-11-17T16:08:19 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> NVIDIA's confrontational FOSS stance aside, nuveau is a thing, isn't it? dylanaraps: Can you link that reference?
2019-11-17T16:08:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19128420
2019-11-17T16:08:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> he makes me want to return my laptop, buy one with an nvidia GPU, and use the prop driver, just to bug him
2019-11-17T16:10:56 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Thanks. Strong opinions from ddevault have always been a contencious topic. I'm not up to date on any of these issues, but hasn't Nvidia recently made strides to revert this? Also I'm pretty sure, that contribusions towards properietary nvidia support are open, it's just that the core team made some hot headed decisions some time ago...
2019-11-17T16:11:27 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> I also clashed with his strong opinions on another technical matter I want to contribute to ^^
2019-11-17T16:13:56 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> Holy shit: "Linus Torvalds has told [NVIDIA] that he doesn't care [...] and will continue to break their drivers because they just don't listen."
2019-11-17T16:14:19 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> I wonder how long ago that was... especially with Nvidia becoming more open recently...
2019-11-17T16:14:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If the kernel took that stance for each piece of hardware, nothing would work.
2019-11-17T16:14:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (each piece of hardware which did something wrong, bad or didn't follow standards)
2019-11-17T16:15:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> NVIDIA's attempt was this: https://github.com/cubanismo/allocator
2019-11-17T16:15:47 #kisslinux <E5ten> I think the difference there is linus' stance is towards nvidia as a company, he's not saying "fuck all nvidia proprietary users I don't want those shitty users using my kernel"
2019-11-17T16:16:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2019-11-17T16:16:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He also retracted that statement iirc.
2019-11-17T16:17:07 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> E5ten: I'm almost 100% sure, that drew doesn't actually hold anything against the users. It's just his way of expressing spicy high-scoville stances...
2019-11-17T16:17:42 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Ohh, there it is... so my feeling was right :D
2019-11-17T16:18:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't really care, what you say publically has consequences whether or not you believe it, and whether or not he really hates nvidia users he still took the time to post on his blog a rant degrading them and calling them shitty users etc., and that's still garbage
2019-11-17T16:19:23 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> E5ten: In that regard he is a discount version of RMS / Linus - lite edition. I believe there to be a distinction between a personal blog and the software that actually gets build by his contributions and the contributions of the (quite large) community around wayland.
2019-11-17T16:20:41 #kisslinux <E5ten> a personal blog which, in literally the same post, he notes a decision he is making about sway's development and the rest of the blog post is ranting about why he's making that decision
2019-11-17T16:20:50 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's not even remotely separable from sway
2019-11-17T16:21:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Linus only insults those who should know better (people not doing their jobs well). Linus doesn't say anything negative towards the users themselves.
2019-11-17T16:22:07 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: I oppose this as well, but believe he didn't actually mean it in the first place, especially considering the retraction. E5ten: sway isn't just drew, the commits come from all-over.
2019-11-17T16:23:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> like sure in theory, but also it's his project and the second biggest contributor has added half the LOC that he has
2019-11-17T16:24:52 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> All things considered, it *is* a new frontier to explore ^^ With many decisions to be made and to be explored. Which is the main reason I use wayland. Changing the couse of history one LOC at a time :P  But coming to the original quesiton, I understand now why KISS specifically excludes wayland. It's simpler than X in it's design, but the circumstances make it quite a piece of work to wade through...
2019-11-17T16:25:29 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> In case more people wonder into KISS's FAQ and are suprised by wayland's exclusion, a mini FAQ addition would be great to explain this...
2019-11-17T16:25:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes. Xorg would need to be kept around regardless.
2019-11-17T16:25:53 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: As a dep for Wayland you mean?
2019-11-17T16:26:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For those who still need Xwayland or Xorg.
2019-11-17T16:26:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> also I was just looking around and saw that 8 months ago there was a patch for kwin to merge eglstreams and ddevault sent a long email requesting that they don't merge it
2019-11-17T16:26:47 #kisslinux <E5ten> not only does he not want nvidia prop users in his userbase, he wants to make sure they are out of wayland entirely
2019-11-17T16:26:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a lot easier for a user to add wayland to KISS than for a user to try and package Xorg if they need it.
2019-11-17T16:27:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: link?
2019-11-17T16:27:22 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> E5ten: Just to quench my curiosity, can you link that? dylanaraps: yeah... real pioneers build wayland only systems to live like monks in pursuit of an idea
2019-11-17T16:27:31 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> *ideal of their future of software
2019-11-17T16:27:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> With KISS, the power is in your hands.
2019-11-17T16:27:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Don't look at the base as ONLY what you can install. :)
2019-11-17T16:28:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/public-inbox/%3C20190220154143.GA31283%40homura.localdomain%3E
2019-11-17T16:28:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You have the means to do whatever you like (and share this wit everyone else).
2019-11-17T16:28:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> with*
2019-11-17T16:28:24 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Yeah I know, that's unix in general. Just wondered why it's mentioned.
2019-11-17T16:28:43 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: Be right back, making a PR request to make KISS wayland only :P
2019-11-17T16:28:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's mentioned as I don't want that specific list of software anywhere in the official repos.
2019-11-17T16:29:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is just the official repos though. There's a user running dbus, systemd, etc etc for example.
2019-11-17T16:30:32 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: KISS and systemd, now that is true blasphemy :P  Great work on figuring out how to include the favicon in the HTML file itself. Immediatly stolen
2019-11-17T16:30:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks :)
2019-11-17T16:31:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Was that code merged into kWin?
2019-11-17T16:32:06 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: We had Snake in the inspect-elemnt console. Now if we can cycle through HTML sites fast enough, we can make a favicon-snake..
2019-11-17T16:33:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Browsers support animated gifs as favicon. Snake in the favicon exists already. ;)
2019-11-17T16:33:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll see if I can find it.
2019-11-17T16:33:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> The relevant kwin dev responded saying he cared about supporting his userbase and stuff so I'd assume so?
2019-11-17T16:33:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah it was merged
2019-11-17T16:34:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> Good, it'd piss me off greatly ddevault managed to also fuck over users that aren't even in his userbase
2019-11-17T16:34:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> http://www.p01.org/defender_of_the_favicon/
2019-11-17T16:34:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It wasn't snake.
2019-11-17T16:34:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Still a game in a favicon though.
2019-11-17T16:36:09 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> Wow it's way more responsive than I thought
2019-11-17T16:36:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's also these if you weren't aware: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/99 https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/100
2019-11-17T16:37:24 #kisslinux <E5ten> (those are the other lesser reasons I dislike ddevault)
2019-11-17T16:38:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have no problem with Drew but I really don't appreciate how he handled those issues.
2019-11-17T16:39:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's all there is to it really.
2019-11-17T16:39:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> It's very clear to me that they weren't intended to actually bring about any change to how kiss works and were just there to snarkily crap on its choices...
2019-11-17T16:39:46 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> I'm off for some spicy reading. Tales of FOSS is better than any drama fiction. Gonna get a glass of milk real quick
2019-11-17T16:42:52 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> E5ten: "snarkily crap on its choices", hmm... he didn't even defend the point about X being optional and many users having wayland only systems. Maybe there is something to it... Sep30 2019. Hard year I guess? :S
2019-11-17T16:43:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I locked both issues.
2019-11-17T16:46:35 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> "actual goal you're committed to" Yeah, thats straight up personal :S Well, here's to a future where we all get along
2019-11-17T16:46:50 #kisslinux * VladTheImplier drinks milk to quench the spicy flames of FOSS drama
2019-11-17T16:47:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah the wayland issue doesn't demonstrate what I said nearly as much as the other one lol
2019-11-17T16:47:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> The x86_64 one is where he truly shines
2019-11-17T16:48:50 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> E5ten: I should start a weekly podcast. Instead of Youtuber-drama, a summary of this week's FOSS drama. With COC's and stuff I'm sure to no run out of content before 50 episodes...
2019-11-17T16:49:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You'd never run out of content.
2019-11-17T16:49:38 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> :D  It's a genius investment
2019-11-17T16:50:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Drama exists anywhere you look though. :P
2019-11-17T16:50:37 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> But only in FOSS do you have version-controlled drama.
2019-11-17T16:50:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Of course
2019-11-17T16:51:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Gotta record it from a Windows machine using proprietary software
2019-11-17T16:52:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I asked for an invite to lobsters in #lobsters since one of my posts was #1 and they replied asking what I would contribute to the comments...
2019-11-17T16:53:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (of my post)
2019-11-17T16:53:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > I'm pretty sure you're not a spammer so I can probably extend an invite. What are you aiming to respond to in the discussion?
2019-11-17T16:54:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2019-11-17T16:54:31 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> Code reviews usually hold quite the tension in the air. FOSS is a code review with 7 billion potential reviewers. dylanaraps: Heh. "You know how many clicks that article brought? I MADE YOU."
2019-11-17T16:54:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't have analytics. ;)
2019-11-17T16:54:53 #kisslinux <VladTheImplier> dylanaraps: "HoW dArE yOu?!"
2019-11-17T16:54:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I really don't know.
2019-11-17T16:55:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Their chat page on the site says this:  If you are the author or otherwise involved with a story that was submitted to the site, ask and someone will invite you.
2019-11-17T16:55:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: > If not, offer some good links or thoughts on a story and someone will likely invite you so can post them
2019-11-17T16:58:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Meh :P
2019-11-17T17:00:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> VladTheImplier: This subreddit is full of juicy posts to drama https://old.reddit.com/r/MozillaInAction/top/?sort=top&t=all :P
2019-11-17T17:01:52 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: https://github.com/jdavies-dev/kiss-ppc64le
2019-11-17T17:02:00 #kisslinux <chrempson> this is using your suggestion from earlier
2019-11-17T17:02:50 #kisslinux <chrempson> of the base packages, I've only had to modify 3 so far.  Those are the ones in that repo.  Will add more as I go, but that's all that's all the required changes for a base set of packages
2019-11-17T17:03:07 #kisslinux <chrempson> tested it out in a clean chroot using the tarball from earlier
2019-11-17T17:03:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-11-17T17:03:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can also use symlinks to reduce that further.
2019-11-17T17:03:51 #kisslinux <chrempson> how so?
2019-11-17T17:04:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you only modify 'build', symlink the rest of the files to '/var/db/kiss/repo/core/PKG_NAME/FILE' for example.
2019-11-17T17:04:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So 'depends' for autoconf would link to '/var/db/kiss/repo/core/autoconf/depends'.
2019-11-17T17:04:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Same for 'sources', 'version' and 'checksums'.
2019-11-17T17:05:06 #kisslinux <chrempson> can I rely on it being in that location?
2019-11-17T17:05:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you modify the 'sources' file or any patches then omit linking the 'checksums' file.
2019-11-17T17:05:34 #kisslinux <chrempson> I had my repo somewhere else on another install
2019-11-17T17:06:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That is the system-wide location for the repositories. A user would have to explicitly remove this directory or remove it from their KISS_PATH.
2019-11-17T17:06:33 #kisslinux <chrempson> ok nice, that will mean I won't have to keep things up to date
2019-11-17T17:06:38 #kisslinux <chrempson> so much
2019-11-17T17:06:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T17:07:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your .tar.xz archives should include the official repository there as well.
2019-11-17T17:07:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just a 'git clone https://github.com/kisslinux/repo' in '/var/db/kiss'.
2019-11-17T17:07:46 #kisslinux <chrempson> I should do that inside the chroot directory before I zip it up?
2019-11-17T17:07:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your repo could also be by default available as '/var/db/kiss/repo-ppc64le'.
2019-11-17T17:07:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2019-11-17T17:08:05 #kisslinux <chrempson> ok, will add it in now
2019-11-17T17:08:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Once you have a fully working tarball, updating it is typically just a 'tar xvf tarball; cd kiss-chroot; kiss update'.
2019-11-17T17:08:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And a repackage of the result.
2019-11-17T17:09:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The one manual step for users of your tarball would then be adding it to the start of their 'KISS_PATH'.
2019-11-17T17:10:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You could fork the 'kiss' package and update the default KISS_PATH value too.
2019-11-17T17:10:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Those are the two options basically. :)
2019-11-17T17:16:24 #kisslinux <chrempson> updated the tarball on github to include the repo
2019-11-17T17:18:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-11-17T18:06:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Neat: https://www.patreon.com/posts/31633933
2019-11-17T18:06:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Converting systemd units to init style shell scripts
2019-11-17T18:06:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Now converting a unit file into a complete shell script is as easy as running a command like "sysd2v.sh /lib/systemd/system/ssh.service" to translate the OpenSSH service into a shell script.
2019-11-17T18:09:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> New post: https://getkiss.org/blog/20191117a
2019-11-17T18:09:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > This week in KISS (#1)
2019-11-17T18:11:26 #kisslinux <E5ten> gotta be honest I feel like that's way more complex and likely prone to failure than just converting them manually which is probably a job that doesn't take more than a couple of minutes
2019-11-17T18:12:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh yeah
2019-11-17T18:12:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Don't look at the source for the script.
2019-11-17T18:12:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> I already did
2019-11-17T18:13:03 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm very sad
2019-11-17T18:13:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> also the patch thing in the post made me look at the patch issue again and I don't know how this didn't come to me before but why does kiss have lvm2 in repos at all lol
2019-11-17T18:13:39 #kisslinux <E5ten> like in base repos I mean
2019-11-17T18:14:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> also nooo that's so sad there'll always be 1 patch in core cuz that libelf thing's never gonna get merged :(
2019-11-17T18:14:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup :(
2019-11-17T18:14:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Users wanted lvm2 for encryption.
2019-11-17T18:14:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Same goes for cryptsetup etc.
2019-11-17T18:15:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm tempted to whip up a sed command to replace the libelf patch.
2019-11-17T18:15:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 0 patches then ;)
2019-11-17T18:15:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> 🤢
2019-11-17T18:15:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah I was just gonna say how hard would that be to sed
2019-11-17T18:15:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> probably not that hard right?
2019-11-17T18:15:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not too hard.
2019-11-17T18:16:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just wraps a bunch of macros in defines.
2019-11-17T18:16:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'll give it a shot
2019-11-17T18:16:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> #if VAR -> #if defined(VAR)
2019-11-17T18:17:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In lib/elf_repl.h
2019-11-17T18:17:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oof
2019-11-17T18:17:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also needs to handle: #if !__LIBELF64 -> #if !defined(__LIBELF64)
2019-11-17T18:17:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also this file: lib/libelf.h
2019-11-17T18:18:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And this one: lib/sys_elf.h.w32
2019-11-17T18:18:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lol one of the files is full of ^M.
2019-11-17T18:18:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah I remember trying this a while ago when I saw the patch and running into some tiny annoying thing and giving up cuz I had another thing to do
2019-11-17T18:18:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> ha cuz it's for win32
2019-11-17T18:18:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yup
2019-11-17T18:19:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> elfutils is so anti-musl that I'd much rather keep this lib around...
2019-11-17T18:19:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We'd need to use a couple of things ripped out of glibc + a bunch of patches, etc.
2019-11-17T18:20:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A full fork was actually needed... https://github.com/systmkor/elfutils-portable
2019-11-17T18:20:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's dead now too.
2019-11-17T18:21:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/gentoo/musl/tree/master/dev-libs/elfutils
2019-11-17T18:21:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There we go.
2019-11-17T18:21:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's what it looks like.
2019-11-17T18:22:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also needs:
2019-11-17T18:22:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>   sys-libs/argp-standalone
2019-11-17T18:22:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>   sys-libs/fts-standalone
2019-11-17T18:22:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>   sys-libs/obstack-standalone
2019-11-17T18:22:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> These are ripped from glibc...
2019-11-17T18:22:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fun
2019-11-17T18:24:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> well for elf_repl.h it wasn't hard at all, 90% of the time I just took was verifying that the diff matched using the patch vs using the sed lol
2019-11-17T18:24:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> `sed 's/^(#if) (__LIBELF64)/1 defined(2)/'`
2019-11-17T18:26:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The other option is to fork, continue development, become upstream and then take over the world
2019-11-17T18:26:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> `sed 's/^(#if) (!)?(.*)/1 2defined(3)/'` gelf.h
2019-11-17T18:26:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I missed the step where we rewrite it in rust.
2019-11-17T18:28:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> `sed 's/^(#if) (_.*)/1 defined(2)/'` libelf.h, this can probably be used for elf_repl.h too
2019-11-17T18:29:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah it should be able to
2019-11-17T18:31:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> add a [[:space:]]* between # and if and it should also work for sys_elf.h.in
2019-11-17T18:32:03 #kisslinux <E5ten> and that'll also work for sys_elf.h.w32
2019-11-17T18:33:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-11-17T18:38:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> I tried putting them all into one and now it's not working at all and I'm very confused, basically I took the one for gelf.h, added [[:space:]]* between # and if, and added a _ before the .*, and I figured that'd work but it's not and I'm confused
2019-11-17T18:39:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> huh nevermind
2019-11-17T18:40:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh wait also needs to deal with elif in gelf.h
2019-11-17T18:45:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sed -E 's/if (!)?(w*)/if 1defined(2)/'
2019-11-17T18:45:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try that.
2019-11-17T18:45:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> '-E' just saves me escaping everything.
2019-11-17T18:46:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Should work for all of it(?)
2019-11-17T18:47:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> I know and for myself I always use -E but for anything I'm giving to someone especially that'll get used in packaging that goes out to others I try to be POSIX in case they want to be
2019-11-17T18:47:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> I guess it's pointless though cuz -i isn't POSIX either
2019-11-17T18:47:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T18:47:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> isn't w like really non-POSIX though?
2019-11-17T18:48:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> yours matches way too much
2019-11-17T18:48:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It works though??
2019-11-17T18:48:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> At least in my tests it does.
2019-11-17T18:48:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Doing a build now with it.
2019-11-17T18:49:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> for me it replaced a lot of stuff it shouldn't too?
2019-11-17T18:49:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will try build the kernel after.
2019-11-17T18:49:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> like endifs got fucked
2019-11-17T18:49:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You're right actually.
2019-11-17T18:50:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> `s/^(#[[:space:]]*(el)?if) (!)?(_.*)/1 3defined(4)/'`
2019-11-17T18:50:55 #kisslinux <E5ten>  * `'s/^(#[[:space:]]*(el)?if) (!)?(_.*)/1 3defined(4)/'`
2019-11-17T18:50:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> with -E
2019-11-17T18:51:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> something must've been wrong with my escaping cuz all I did was add -E to mine and remove s
2019-11-17T18:51:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-11-17T18:52:24 #kisslinux <E5ten> diff reports my 2 test dirs as different cuz of some fuckery with the CR filled file but other than that it matches the patch
2019-11-17T18:53:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> this is driving me nuts
2019-11-17T18:53:39 #kisslinux <E5ten> I gotta know why the non ERE one isn't working now
2019-11-17T18:54:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> I needed to escape the ?s
2019-11-17T18:54:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> didn't know that
2019-11-17T18:55:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> `'s/^(#[[:space:]]*(el)?if) (!)?(_.*)/1 3defined(4)/'` this also works but is much more hideous than the ERE above
2019-11-17T19:02:20 #kisslinux <dylanara1> E5ten: sed -i'' 's/-I/-isystem /g' libelf.pc.in
2019-11-17T19:02:26 #kisslinux <dylanara1> This should fix the issue. :P
2019-11-17T19:03:40 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Yup
2019-11-17T19:05:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> hahaha that's great
2019-11-17T19:05:52 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Doing another test build.
2019-11-17T19:05:57 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Should be good though..
2019-11-17T19:06:15 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Basically, -Werror doesn't affect -isystem but affects -I.
2019-11-17T19:06:28 #kisslinux <dylanara1> The kernel never used to import libelf with -Werror set.
2019-11-17T19:06:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> that fact that the .pc file has any effect on the build makes no sense
2019-11-17T19:06:55 #kisslinux <dylanara1> The kernel swapped to pkg-config which caused -Werror to be set.
2019-11-17T19:07:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh wait the error happens in the kernel build
2019-11-17T19:07:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> never mind that does make sense
2019-11-17T19:07:26 #kisslinux <dylanara1> It happens in the kernel build because -Werror affects dependencies...
2019-11-17T19:07:38 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Due to -Werror + -I together.
2019-11-17T19:07:58 #kisslinux <dylanara1> These libelf issues aren't new.
2019-11-17T19:08:06 #kisslinux <dylanara1> The kernel just never used to include it in this way.
2019-11-17T19:08:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> looks like version.c should include stdlib.h
2019-11-17T19:08:32 #kisslinux <dylanara1> In libelf?
2019-11-17T19:08:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah
2019-11-17T19:08:57 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Oh yeah, I see it.
2019-11-17T19:09:00 #kisslinux <dylanara1> It's ok
2019-11-17T19:09:05 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Gcc fixes dumb programming mistakes
2019-11-17T19:09:12 #kisslinux <dylanara1> ;)
2019-11-17T19:09:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> clang doesn't error either, but it's still something a sed could easily fix so why not ;)
2019-11-17T19:11:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> `sed -i '/#include <private.h>/s/$/n#include <stdlib.h>/'`
2019-11-17T19:12:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> you could probably use the sed appending thing instead actually
2019-11-17T19:12:30 #kisslinux <dylanara1> It amazes me how many popular libs aren't in development.
2019-11-17T19:13:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah `sed -i '/#include <private.h>/a#include <stdlib.h>'` or i instead of a if it should go before private.h which I guess it probably should
2019-11-17T19:13:13 #kisslinux <dylanara1> libtheora, libelf, bzip2 (GNOME took this one), wavpack
2019-11-17T19:13:22 #kisslinux <dylanara1> All I can think of right now.
2019-11-17T19:13:32 #kisslinux <dylanara1> wavpack has seen dev work this year but no releases.
2019-11-17T19:13:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> the common libelf still is no?
2019-11-17T19:13:44 #kisslinux <dylanara1> There's 9(?) CVEs
2019-11-17T19:14:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> on libelf or wavpack?
2019-11-17T19:14:07 #kisslinux <dylanara1> common libelf is in elfutils
2019-11-17T19:14:14 #kisslinux <dylanara1> wavpack has the CVEs.
2019-11-17T19:14:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah
2019-11-17T19:14:31 #kisslinux <dylanara1> elfutils involves what I mentioned further above.
2019-11-17T19:14:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> so libelf is still in development
2019-11-17T19:14:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> just by idiots
2019-11-17T19:14:40 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Yes
2019-11-17T19:14:46 #kisslinux <dylanara1> just like bzip2 being in rust now
2019-11-17T19:14:59 #kisslinux <dylanara1> or gnupg2 being 10213213 libraries
2019-11-17T19:15:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> believe me I know elfutils sucks, I might not be on musl but it's just as hostile to clang as it is musl
2019-11-17T19:15:12 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Yup
2019-11-17T19:15:20 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Been snooping on the bug tracker
2019-11-17T19:15:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> bzip2, more like I don't have the lib and my commands are from toybox (it only supports decompression but my bzip2 is just a shell script that accepts -d as a noop
2019-11-17T19:15:39 #kisslinux <E5ten>  * bzip2, more like I don't have the lib and my commands are from toybox (it only supports decompression but my bzip2 is just a shell script that accepts -d as a noop)
2019-11-17T19:15:52 #kisslinux <E5ten> and without -d the script errors
2019-11-17T19:15:58 #kisslinux <dylanara1> 10/10
2019-11-17T19:16:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> cuz I have never in my life needed to compress something bzip2 ever
2019-11-17T19:16:20 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Look at my lvm2 package...
2019-11-17T19:16:29 #kisslinux <dylanara1> KISS is the only musl distro with the latest version iirc.
2019-11-17T19:16:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm scared to look
2019-11-17T19:17:04 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Yup, KISS is the only musl distro with it.
2019-11-17T19:17:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> damn a patch directly on the configure
2019-11-17T19:17:13 #kisslinux <dylanara1> I had to write some patches.
2019-11-17T19:17:14 #kisslinux <dylanara1> and welll
2019-11-17T19:17:17 #kisslinux <dylanara1> You'll see
2019-11-17T19:17:23 #kisslinux <dylanara1> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/blob/master/extra/lvm2/build
2019-11-17T19:17:30 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Look at the 'fmt -1' stuff.
2019-11-17T19:17:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh god I just got through looking at the patches
2019-11-17T19:18:03 #kisslinux <E5ten> I just opened build and haven't got a good look yet but oh no that does not look good
2019-11-17T19:18:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> what is fmt and why is this necessary?
2019-11-17T19:18:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh coreutil busybox doesn't have?
2019-11-17T19:18:26 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Read the comment
2019-11-17T19:18:28 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Yup
2019-11-17T19:18:40 #kisslinux <dylanara1> It only ever calls 'fmt -1'.
2019-11-17T19:18:46 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Which splits a string one word per line.
2019-11-17T19:19:01 #kisslinux <dylanara1> cmd | fmt -1 basically
2019-11-17T19:19:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> toybox has it but I haven't made the symlink on my system cuz not POSIX and I don't need it
2019-11-17T19:19:07 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Exactly
2019-11-17T19:19:14 #kisslinux <dylanara1> I've never seen it used anywhere else.
2019-11-17T19:19:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> why don't you actually replace the use of that in the build system though?
2019-11-17T19:19:43 #kisslinux <dylanara1> This is 1:1 and I don't have to touch the source.
2019-11-17T19:19:47 #kisslinux <dylanara1> A sed would work though.
2019-11-17T19:19:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> with like idk `sed 's/[[:space:]]*/n/g'` would probably work
2019-11-17T19:20:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> `tr ' ' 'n'` but I hate tr so I'd probably use the sed personally
2019-11-17T19:20:19 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Let me see what it looks like in the build system
2019-11-17T19:20:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> whenever I see tr in a script I feel like there is always, always a builtin free way to deal with whatever it's doing
2019-11-17T19:20:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> ditto for cut
2019-11-17T19:20:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> cut and tr use is always wrong imo
2019-11-17T19:21:00 #kisslinux <dylanara1> > echo $DEPLIST | fmt -1 | sed 's/ //g;s/(.*)/1:/' >> $@
2019-11-17T19:21:05 #kisslinux <dylanara1> oof
2019-11-17T19:21:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> nice, they already use sed anyway
2019-11-17T19:21:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> braindead
2019-11-17T19:21:47 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Only two places in the code.
2019-11-17T19:21:55 #kisslinux <dylanara1> 1:1 copy of that line.
2019-11-17T19:21:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah
2019-11-17T19:22:01 #kisslinux <dylanara1> So it's duplicated twice.
2019-11-17T19:22:07 #kisslinux <dylanara1> sed it is
2019-11-17T19:22:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> what would DEPLIST be?
2019-11-17T19:22:15 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Who cares tbh
2019-11-17T19:22:28 #kisslinux <dylanara1> This has caused me enough headaches. :P
2019-11-17T19:22:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> well for testing purposes
2019-11-17T19:22:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'd like to make sure it's doing it correctly
2019-11-17T19:22:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> but I can't even get past a configure to see what the value would be lol
2019-11-17T19:22:47 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Ok
2019-11-17T19:22:49 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Here you go:
2019-11-17T19:22:51 #kisslinux <dylanara1> DEPLIST=`sed 's/ \//;s/.*://;' < $@`
2019-11-17T19:22:58 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Happy? ;)
2019-11-17T19:23:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> I saw that
2019-11-17T19:23:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> but what's $@
2019-11-17T19:23:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's .d files I haven't generated yet right?
2019-11-17T19:23:33 #kisslinux <E5ten> dafuq is libaio
2019-11-17T19:23:54 #kisslinux <dylanara1> >  The Linux-native asynchronous I/O facility ("async I/O", or "aio") has a richer API and capability set than the simple POSIX async I/O facility.
2019-11-17T19:24:03 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Another random lib I need to include.
2019-11-17T19:24:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> ha nice toybox fmt doesn't support -1
2019-11-17T19:24:11 #kisslinux <dylanara1> hahah
2019-11-17T19:25:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> yep it's literally just a space separated list of files
2019-11-17T19:25:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> those idiots
2019-11-17T19:25:09 #kisslinux <dylanara1> What's gross about this LVM2 issue is that it built fine without any of these patches.
2019-11-17T19:25:34 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Would just segfault in some of the programs it spits out.
2019-11-17T19:25:53 #kisslinux <dylanara1> So some lv- commands would segfault and others would work.
2019-11-17T19:26:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> the sed that makes DEPLIST, what the fuck is that first bit?
2019-11-17T19:26:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> is it just removing all sets of double backslashes in its input?
2019-11-17T19:26:21 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Removes ' \'
2019-11-17T19:26:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> or the first per line I guess
2019-11-17T19:26:28 #kisslinux <dylanara1> First per line
2019-11-17T19:26:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> when does that appear?
2019-11-17T19:26:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> no wait it's to remove the  at the end of the lines
2019-11-17T19:26:45 #kisslinux <dylanara1> %.d: %.c
2019-11-17T19:26:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> how does 4 backslashes match 1?
2019-11-17T19:26:54 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Uh
2019-11-17T19:27:21 #kisslinux <dylanara1> FILE=`echo $@ | sed 's/\//\\//g;s/\.d//g'`;
2019-11-17T19:27:24 #kisslinux <dylanara1> 6!
2019-11-17T19:27:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> 6?
2019-11-17T19:28:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> what is happenninggg
2019-11-17T19:28:18 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Look at the forward slashes too.
2019-11-17T19:28:25 #kisslinux <dylanara1> s/ // //g
2019-11-17T19:28:27 #kisslinux <dylanara1> ?!?!?!
2019-11-17T19:29:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> so the sed after the fmt can just have s/ /n/g before it right? and then the bit after that is replacing spaces with nothing but they'd all become newlines at that point sooo
2019-11-17T19:29:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> so really you can just remove the fmt, and put n as the replacement in the first bit of the sed
2019-11-17T19:29:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> and that should be all you have to change right?
2019-11-17T19:29:39 #kisslinux <dylanara1> yup
2019-11-17T19:30:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> I kinda can't believe you opted to do what you did instead of this lol
2019-11-17T19:30:21 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Getting it working was #1 at the time.
2019-11-17T19:30:31 #kisslinux <dylanara1> The patches were headache inducing.
2019-11-17T19:30:54 #kisslinux <E5ten> fair enough
2019-11-17T19:31:59 #kisslinux <dylanara1> I'm gonna use tr just because you don't like it. :)
2019-11-17T19:32:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> awww why :(
2019-11-17T19:32:52 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Fine
2019-11-17T19:32:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> when do you use tr?
2019-11-17T19:32:54 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Sed it tis
2019-11-17T19:32:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> aside from intentionally to bug me
2019-11-17T19:33:00 #kisslinux <dylanara1> I'm just gonna replace fmt -1
2019-11-17T19:33:07 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Will be a simpler regex
2019-11-17T19:33:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> makes sense
2019-11-17T19:34:54 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> you use tr to transliterate, how else do you for instance uppercase something (without awk)?
2019-11-17T19:35:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> well in bash ^^, in POSIX sh I haven't really run into it
2019-11-17T19:35:44 #kisslinux <dylanara1> You can it without ^^ in bash. I have a script I wrote somewhere.
2019-11-17T19:35:53 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Was fun
2019-11-17T19:35:58 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> well okey, but uppercasing was just the more simple example
2019-11-17T19:36:02 #kisslinux <dylanara1> I know.
2019-11-17T19:36:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> why would I do it without ^^ in bash though?
2019-11-17T19:36:09 #kisslinux <dylanara1> It has its place.
2019-11-17T19:36:11 #kisslinux <dylanara1> I'm insane
2019-11-17T19:36:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> or do you mean in sh too?
2019-11-17T19:36:50 #kisslinux <dylanara1> bash
2019-11-17T19:37:02 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Can't really iterate char by char in pure sh.
2019-11-17T19:37:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> did you use a c-style for loop, an associative array for a character list, and string indexing?
2019-11-17T19:37:55 #kisslinux <dylanara1> I found it
2019-11-17T19:37:58 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> I was toying with an awk irc client
2019-11-17T19:38:11 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> lowercasing using irc rules is faster spawning tr
2019-11-17T19:38:14 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> than doing it in mawk
2019-11-17T19:38:19 #kisslinux <dylanara1> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/dylanaraps/c1e5ec4d7d4b2fd5a160106cbafe77e0/raw/ca7ea88453f5a08d43c02ee50a73565ec64b3768/hehehehe
2019-11-17T19:39:02 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> using exactly the algorythm you described I guess too
2019-11-17T19:39:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> doesn't awk have toupper and tolower...
2019-11-17T19:39:40 #kisslinux <dylanara1> Is that POSIX?
2019-11-17T19:39:43 #kisslinux <dylanara1> 1;history -p $[{1..31},i+=_,_=i-_]
2019-11-17T19:39:43 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> yeah but irc rules are different
2019-11-17T19:39:48 #kisslinux <dylanara1> This is fibonacci in pure bash
2019-11-17T19:40:04 #kisslinux <dylanara1> It's beautiful.
2019-11-17T19:40:05 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> for isntance a backslash is the lowercase of |
2019-11-17T19:40:10 #kisslinux <E5ten> I know it's intentional golf but get that $[] outta here
2019-11-17T19:40:14 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> or something like that
2019-11-17T19:40:24 #kisslinux <dylanara1> set {1804..2400..4};echo ${@%?[^04]00}
2019-11-17T19:40:27 #kisslinux <dylanara1> leap years ;)
2019-11-17T19:40:30 #kisslinux <dylanara1> The cheat way
2019-11-17T19:45:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> `error: use of undeclared identifier 'R_X86_64_PC32'` with this libelf when I try to build objtool :(
2019-11-17T19:48:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: The pkg-config libelf fix works. ;)
2019-11-17T19:52:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> but I did that fix
2019-11-17T19:53:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/9b799b573bc9d6439ddc6870439e7f4ea8eaf3a3
2019-11-17T19:57:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't understand how libelf works for you nowhere in the source does R_X86_<literally anything> get defined so how do you not have errors trying to build objtool with it?
2019-11-17T20:00:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2019-11-17T20:00:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Welcome to the wonderful world of software
2019-11-17T20:00:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> where does elf.h in the kiss chroot come from?
2019-11-17T20:02:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss-owns /usr/include/elf.h
2019-11-17T20:02:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [musl] owns '/usr/include/elf.h'
2019-11-17T20:08:41 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: you prefer not not have the community repo listed in kiss_path.sh by default?
2019-11-17T20:09:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> When musl works and glibc needs tweaking, that's pretty funny
2019-11-17T20:09:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> Like compatibility-wise I mean
2019-11-17T20:10:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: heh
2019-11-17T20:10:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Core is down to 0 patches. :D
2019-11-17T20:10:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xorg has 1 and Extra has 19.
2019-11-17T20:13:06 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: can I put the community repo in my tarball as well?
2019-11-17T20:13:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's not normally done as the community repository is opt-in.
2019-11-17T20:14:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> What's the 1 for xorg?
2019-11-17T20:14:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Enables rootless xorg when using modesetting drivers.
2019-11-17T20:14:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Uses a new feature in the newer Mesa releases.
2019-11-17T20:14:43 #kisslinux <E5ten> Ah right
2019-11-17T20:14:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In xorg/xorg-server/patches/
2019-11-17T20:15:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's 3 lines long.
2019-11-17T20:15:21 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: ok.  I've made the changes to use symlinks to anything that comes from the main repo.  Packages from community have copies of all the files, since community doesn't have a fixed location.
2019-11-17T20:15:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sounds good, I'll take a look.
2019-11-17T20:16:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also, if you tag your repository with '#kiss-repo' it'll appear here: https://github.com/topics/kiss-repo
2019-11-17T20:17:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> chrempson: You'll have to update libelf's build script. The patch is no longer needed. Just a one line change.
2019-11-17T20:18:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/9b799b573bc9d6439ddc6870439e7f4ea8eaf3a3
2019-11-17T20:19:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You could also make a directory next to repo called community and put the community packages in there.
2019-11-17T20:20:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So the user would also add '/home/myuser/kiss-ppc64le/community' to their KISS_PATH.
2019-11-17T20:20:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Makes it clear where each package is from. Entirely up to you though.
2019-11-17T20:25:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> So since that patch is modifying the modesetting driver it wouldn't work for me cuz I use xf86-video-intel? Or am I misunderstanding what component is being acted on or how it interacts with other components or something (pretty likely)?
2019-11-17T20:25:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It would.
2019-11-17T20:26:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's actually a feature from libdrm (not mesa), my bad.
2019-11-17T20:26:16 #kisslinux <chrempson> ok, libelf changes merged in, builds ok.  Like the idea of separating out the community packages.
2019-11-17T20:26:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-11-17T20:27:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The patch makes the driver detect if drmsetmaster is needed or not.
2019-11-17T20:27:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> drmsetmaster needs root for the modesetting driver.
2019-11-17T20:28:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ubuntu 19.04 also uses it for this purpose.
2019-11-17T20:28:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (To allow rootless xorg with modesetting and without [e]logind)
2019-11-17T20:30:16 #kisslinux <konimex> wew that's a lot of backlog I had to read
2019-11-17T20:31:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> heh
2019-11-17T20:31:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> IRC was very active today.
2019-11-17T20:37:16 #kisslinux <atkka> I'll say
2019-11-17T20:37:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> chrempson: That bootloader feature is really cool.
2019-11-17T20:37:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > You don't need GRUB or any other additional bootloader to boot your KISS installation on the TalosII/Blackbird. Petitboot parses the file /boot/grub/grub.cfg directly to look for kernels.
2019-11-17T20:38:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also this
2019-11-17T20:38:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > For TalosII/Blackbird users, you can load the Debian netboot image directly into petitboot by pressing "n" on the boot menu. This means you can install KISS on your machine without having to install another distro first.
2019-11-17T20:38:07 #kisslinux <chrempson> dylanaraps: yeah, saves dealing with grub
2019-11-17T20:38:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > install another distro first
2019-11-17T20:38:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You typically just boot a live-CD.
2019-11-17T20:38:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You don't have to install anything beforehand. :P
2019-11-17T20:41:28 #kisslinux <chrempson> makes sense, will remove that.  was writing that after having built things in another distro ;)
2019-11-17T20:41:35 #kisslinux <chrempson> now we have the tarball
2019-11-17T20:42:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup. :P
2019-11-17T20:42:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also the 'kiss i' should be 'kiss b'. :)
2019-11-17T20:42:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Other than that. It's perfect.
2019-11-17T20:44:52 #kisslinux <E5ten> But doesn't the Intel driver get used instead of the modesetting driver? Like if you're using it I mean? So wouldn't the modesetting driver change not affect me because I'm using the Intel driver? Or am I misunderstanding what the modesetting driver is and it runs in tandem with the Intel one not either or?
2019-11-17T20:46:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> xf86-video-modesetting and xf86-video-intel are separate.
2019-11-17T20:47:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though they both use KMS (kernel modesetting) iirc.
2019-11-17T20:48:54 #kisslinux <E5ten> Wasn't even aware xf86-video-modesetting was a thing that comes separately from xorg-server, so I thought the thing you were modifying there was that whoops
2019-11-17T20:49:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a part of xorg-server.
2019-11-17T20:49:15 #kisslinux <chrempson> readme updated, community split out into separate dir
2019-11-17T20:49:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But it's a driver.
2019-11-17T20:49:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice :)
2019-11-17T20:50:40 #kisslinux <atkka> xf86-video-modesetting, is this the recommended driver for intel users these days?
2019-11-17T20:50:58 #kisslinux <atkka> for i series users and newer?
2019-11-17T20:51:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> Ok but then isn't the thing in the patch xf86-video-modesetting?
2019-11-17T21:04:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes
2019-11-17T21:04:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> modesetting is the recommended driver for *some* (most(?)) intel users.
2019-11-17T21:04:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I use it and get no tearing (even without a compositor)
2019-11-17T21:04:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Performance is perfect too.
2019-11-17T21:06:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> I had serious tearing without a compositor with it, that's why I switched to xf86-video-intel
2019-11-17T21:07:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Welcome to the wonderful world of software
2019-11-17T21:07:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Works on my machine
2019-11-17T21:08:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I really wish every vim commit wasn't also a full release...
2019-11-17T21:08:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> Shouldn't be complicated to insert basically the same thing before the setdrmmaster call in xf86-video-intel though, but I can't compile it until that guy makes it work with clang :))
2019-11-17T21:08:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/vim/vim/releases
2019-11-17T21:08:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten, it isn't needed with xf86-video-intel.
2019-11-17T21:08:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> That's nuts
2019-11-17T21:09:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can double check if you'd like.
2019-11-17T21:09:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> Why not?
2019-11-17T21:09:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> Not why not have you check, although that too actually, but I mean why isn't it needed?
2019-11-17T21:10:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2019-11-17T21:10:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Testing it.
2019-11-17T21:10:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Actually.
2019-11-17T21:10:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me update vim first.
2019-11-17T21:11:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah no rush lol I'm not even at my computer
2019-11-17T21:11:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> After 8 months of no rain, the rains are finally here.
2019-11-17T21:12:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's summer for 8 months here. It's crazy
2019-11-17T21:12:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But it snows near me during winter.
2019-11-17T21:14:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK. brb
2019-11-17T21:15:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: works fine
2019-11-17T21:15:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2019-11-17T21:16:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> Alright then, nice lol, thanks
2019-11-17T21:16:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> Any idea why it works but doesn't with xf86-video-modesetting?
2019-11-17T21:24:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Welcome to the wonderful world of software
2019-11-17T21:24:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :^)
2019-11-17T21:25:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The modesetting driver always tries to set DRM master (which needs root).
2019-11-17T21:25:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The patch makes it check if needed first.
2019-11-17T21:25:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Turns out it isn't really needed at all.
2019-11-17T21:53:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > https://lists.suckless.org/dev/1511/27786.html
2019-11-17T22:00:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> Ah
2019-11-17T22:08:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> Why do you use an identical sed twice on 2 different files instead of just running it on both the files lol? (lvm2)
2019-11-17T22:09:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> also what's the '' next to -i?
2019-11-17T22:16:51 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> just a more explicit way of saying "no backup file please"
2019-11-17T22:45:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wait, sed can operate on more than one file at once? sed 's/bla/bla/' file file
2019-11-17T22:45:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten:
2019-11-17T22:45:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I read somewhere that sed -i'' is more portable than -i file.
2019-11-17T22:50:52 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yes it can operate on more than one file at once, and I'd assume you've heard that because some seds require an extension after -i instead of it being optional, but the thing is that an empty string in quotes that's touching another string (the other string here being -i) is gonna be interpreted identically to the quotes not being there at all, like once the shell deals with quotes it's not gonna be passing an empty argument
2019-11-17T22:50:52 #kisslinux <E5ten> to sed that's attached to -i, all sed will see is the lone -i
2019-11-17T22:51:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> You can't pass empty optional arguments to shortopts
2019-11-17T22:52:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Heh
2019-11-17T22:52:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Good info.
2019-11-17T22:52:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thank you.
2019-11-17T22:53:13 #kisslinux <konimex> -i isn't POSIX anyway so the portability point is a bit moot
2019-11-17T22:53:24 #kisslinux <E5ten> It isnt
2019-11-17T22:53:44 #kisslinux <konimex> it isn't isn't posix or it isn't posix?
2019-11-17T22:54:03 #kisslinux <E5ten> Oh I read it wrong whoops
2019-11-17T22:54:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Isn't posix
2019-11-17T22:54:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah that
2019-11-17T22:54:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> But you can still be more portable without being POSIX...
2019-11-17T22:55:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T22:55:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> Neither -i or --in-place or whatever the fuck GNU's dumb longopt is are POSIX but which do you think will work in more places?
2019-11-17T22:56:23 #kisslinux <konimex> uh... sed > file?
2019-11-17T22:56:47 #kisslinux <konimex> though I think -i is implemented in most major sed implementation anyway
2019-11-17T22:57:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> Try it and say bye to your file lol
2019-11-17T22:57:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ^
2019-11-17T22:57:39 #kisslinux <konimex> iirc neofetch in the past did use that in the makefiles
2019-11-17T22:57:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> cat file | sed > file works but is butt ugly.
2019-11-17T22:58:24 #kisslinux <konimex> tee would also work doesn't it? or still lost file?
2019-11-17T22:58:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> I thought that still down work?
2019-11-17T22:58:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> Cat i mean
2019-11-17T22:58:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> actually you might be right.
2019-11-17T22:58:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If it's sent over the pipe as it is read
2019-11-17T22:58:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> bye bye file
2019-11-17T22:59:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> yep
2019-11-17T22:59:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> that's how pipes work lol
2019-11-17T22:59:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I like how we're still talking about these problems in almost 2020.
2019-11-17T23:00:02 #kisslinux <tridactyla> `sed expr file >file.tmp && mv file.tmp file` is what i usually use
2019-11-17T23:00:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah I believe sed -i on freebsd and probably other BSD's requires an extension after -i hence the misguided suggestion to try to pass it an empty extension
2019-11-17T23:03:39 #kisslinux <E5ten> yep, I looked, you can give them an empty extension to not make a backup, and you can give no extension to non-BSD seds to not have a backup, but you can't do both so -i is impossible to do in a way that works on both BSD and not BSD, rip lol
2019-11-17T23:05:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> unless you want to make backups but uh no
2019-11-17T23:06:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> and with BSD sed it seems you'd need to do -e after -i '' as well, so all of that leads me to the conclusion "fuck BSD sed"
2019-11-17T23:07:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-11-17T23:10:43 #kisslinux <tridactyla> just write to a temporary file and rename. it's POSIX-compatible and works everywhere
2019-11-17T23:10:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> what's especially great is the difference in behaviour there, as well as the better and more common behaviour relying on optional arguments (it's not better cuz it uses optional argument, which are always stupid, it's better cuz it functionally has no argument at all cuz nobody uses said optional argument) means that -i will definitely never be POSIX
2019-11-17T23:17:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :(
2019-11-17T23:18:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK
2019-11-17T23:19:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Removal of '' from -i is done.
2019-11-17T23:19:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I haven't touched community yet.
2019-11-17T23:19:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Tomorrow.
2019-11-17T23:30:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm not 100% sure of why I was having libelf issues but I'm like 99% of the way there and if it's why I think it is I'm going to fucking explode
2019-11-17T23:33:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> so isn't this fun, it uses cpp with CPPFLAGS to check if something succeeds
2019-11-17T23:33:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> because I have -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 in my CPPFLAGS, and there's no optimization, it gives the `#  warning _FORTIFY_SOURCE requires compiling with optimization (-O)` warning
2019-11-17T23:34:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> the way their fucking old autotools stupid piece of shit build system detects success or failure is using a grep that matches both errors and warnings
2019-11-17T23:34:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> so elf.h wasn't getting included properly because of the build system thinking my elf.h was non-functional
2019-11-17T23:35:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> fuck fucking piece of shit autotools straight to fucking hell what kind of idiotic piece of shit could even come up with such a shitty piece of crap
2019-11-17T23:36:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNU
2019-11-17T23:36:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I hate programming language package managers.
2019-11-17T23:42:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm off to bed.
2019-11-17T23:42:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ciao.