💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2019-09-10.txt captured on 2022-07-17 at 03:29:24.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2019-09-10T06:04:30 #kisslinux <globbot> channel logging requested by dylanaraps: https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux
2019-09-10T06:04:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Neat
2019-09-10T06:39:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2019-12749
2019-09-10T06:39:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dbus CVE
2019-09-10T06:42:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a few months old but Gentoo posted about it today(?)
2019-09-10T06:42:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://security.gentoo.org/glsa/201909-08
2019-09-10T06:50:45 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> i can't imagine my life without dbus. without MPRIS specifically
2019-09-10T06:57:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What do you use MPRIS for?
2019-09-10T06:58:00 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> music players
2019-09-10T06:58:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Remote control/Hotkeys?
2019-09-10T06:58:35 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> controlling and scrobbling to last.fm
2019-09-10T06:58:54 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> https://github.com/mariusor/mpris-scrobbler
2019-09-10T06:59:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah. My music is 100% local.
2019-09-10T06:59:14 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> https://github.com/BlackDex/mpris-control
2019-09-10T06:59:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't really understand "scrobbling" nor why I'd use it.
2019-09-10T07:01:31 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> well, people use lastfm for the same reasons systemd-journal logs everything happening in a system
2019-09-10T07:02:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Does it not just attach a social aspect to your consumption of music?
2019-09-10T07:02:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have a directory with songs in it and I open that directory in mpv.
2019-09-10T07:03:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's it.
2019-09-10T07:03:36 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> i don't use it for socialisation. i use it for logging
2019-09-10T07:04:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do your "logs" sit public on your profile?
2019-09-10T07:04:16 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> *socializing
2019-09-10T07:04:21 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> yes
2019-09-10T07:04:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do you share the link to your profile to others (so they can see what you listen to)?
2019-09-10T07:05:15 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> of course http://last.fm/user/dnup
2019-09-10T07:05:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's socialization.
2019-09-10T07:06:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'd read: https://www.cbsinteractive.com/legal/cbsi/privacy-policy
2019-09-10T07:06:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (CBS owns Last.fm)
2019-09-10T07:06:51 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> it's so difficult to find people with a similar music taste, so i try to use every opportunity
2019-09-10T07:06:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Their privacy policy applies on Last.fm)
2019-09-10T07:09:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Why do you feel the need to seek out others with the same music taste?
2019-09-10T07:10:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You do realize your music consumption in its entirety is being collected and sold.
2019-09-10T07:11:20 #kisslinux <treeshateorcs> why is that bad?
2019-09-10T07:17:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you have to ask you'll never _know_. The responsibility is yours and not mine.
2019-09-10T07:36:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ➜ kiss l zlib
2019-09-10T07:36:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> zlib 1.2.11 1
2019-09-10T07:36:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ➜ kiss l zlib 2>/dev/null
2019-09-10T07:36:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> zlib
2019-09-10T07:36:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> neato
2019-09-10T07:37:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Version is sent to stderr so you can easily filter it out in scripts.
2019-09-10T08:58:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: our ldd dependency finder only checks /usr/bin and /usr/lib (inside the DESTDIR). So if a user packages something and uses /bin it won't detect anything.
2019-09-10T08:59:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If we expand it to / (in DESTDIR) it'll work but it'll also pick up directories we don't want (this is fine but could be slow for say perl).
2019-09-10T09:00:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Actually...
2019-09-10T09:00:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's fast regardless.
2019-09-10T09:12:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> nvm
2019-09-10T09:18:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/
2019-09-10T09:30:42 #kisslinux <jml_> hello
2019-09-10T09:31:01 #kisslinux <jml_> finally moved to IRC
2019-09-10T09:33:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You're dbz yeah?
2019-09-10T09:33:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or do I have that wrong?
2019-09-10T09:33:47 #kisslinux <jml_> no haha.
2019-09-10T09:33:53 #kisslinux <jml_> I'm Stefan.
2019-09-10T09:34:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> haha
2019-09-10T09:34:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ohhhhh
2019-09-10T09:36:49 #kisslinux <jml_> so whats the future of the discord server?
2019-09-10T09:37:04 #kisslinux <jml_> will the chat get archived?
2019-09-10T09:37:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've left one room open '#kiss' and locked the others.
2019-09-10T09:38:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> After a short while I'll lock '#kiss' as well and just keep the server open without anyone able to chat.
2019-09-10T09:38:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Keeping the notice about this IRC server at the top.
2019-09-10T09:38:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So it'll exist just as an archive.
2019-09-10T09:38:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'd love to be able to download everything if possible.
2019-09-10T09:39:24 #kisslinux <jml_> should be possible.
2019-09-10T09:39:30 #kisslinux <jml_> can always use the API.
2019-09-10T09:52:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've got time to figure it out. There are userscripts available to just scrape the site.
2019-09-10T09:53:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Discord updated yesterday so they're all a little broken.
2019-09-10T10:03:02 #kisslinux <jml_> yeah. hate what discord is doing. moving to IRC is a good decision.
2019-09-10T10:04:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's also one less browser tab I _have_ to have open.
2019-09-10T10:06:35 #kisslinux <jml_> that too. its sad that IRC isn't being used as much as discord.
2019-09-10T10:06:38 #kisslinux <jml_> or any other chat app.
2019-09-10T10:08:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup.
2019-09-10T10:08:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's because IRC is "boring" now.
2019-09-10T10:08:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> People find it hard to communicate without emojis, images, reactions etc.
2019-09-10T10:09:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://u.teknik.io/fHm2k.png
2019-09-10T10:09:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 100MB~ of memory shaved off of my system.
2019-09-10T10:09:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And a lot less CPU now. :D
2019-09-10T10:10:28 #kisslinux <jml_> yeah Discord uses way too much resources just for chatting.
2019-09-10T10:10:37 #kisslinux <jml_> electron ruined software.
2019-09-10T10:11:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah although GTK/QT (recent years) aren't very light either.
2019-09-10T10:12:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Resource usage is up overall.
2019-09-10T10:12:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Software has been riding hardware advancements for decades now...
2019-09-10T10:18:34 #kisslinux <jml_> well what is the alternative? TUI's? curses?
2019-09-10T10:22:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We had perfect GUI toolkits over 20 years ago.
2019-09-10T10:22:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And look at the hardware they ran on...
2019-09-10T10:23:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Even terminal emulators are heavily bloated today.
2019-09-10T10:24:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can very easily write a bloated terminal application.
2019-09-10T10:24:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Look at irssi, it requires glib and god knows why.
2019-09-10T10:25:35 #kisslinux <jml_> yeah seems like modern programmers don't care about resource usage.
2019-09-10T10:29:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> glib is used in irssi _only_ for strings/regex handling.
2019-09-10T10:29:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just checked the source.
2019-09-10T10:31:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The other issue with GTK/QT is that they seem to be developed only for GNOME/KDE.
2019-09-10T10:31:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Anyone using them externally is a second-class citizen.
2019-09-10T10:31:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Using Wine's GUI toolkit is lighter than both GTK3 and QT5.
2019-09-10T10:32:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Windows' GUI toolkit is even lighter.
2019-09-10T10:33:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I wish more developers chose FLTK: https://www.fltk.org/shots.php
2019-09-10T10:33:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's super light.
2019-09-10T10:34:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also Nuklear: https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear
2019-09-10T10:34:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Even lighter than FLTK.
2019-09-10T10:39:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> FLTK may be lighter actually.
2019-09-10T10:58:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/
2019-09-10T11:41:33 #kisslinux <jml_> nuklear is pretty nice. have you got any experience with it?
2019-09-10T11:46:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nope
2019-09-10T11:47:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I haven't done any GUI stuff at all.
2019-09-10T11:47:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The only GUI application I use is a web browser.
2019-09-10T11:47:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I only really work on things I'll actually use.
2019-09-10T11:54:56 #kisslinux <jml_> same. I mostly write backend stuff in Go and manage using TUI's over gRPC.
2019-09-10T12:15:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/
2019-09-10T12:17:18 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> The only thing I do not like that much about IRC is the fact that I can't view the chats history without checking globbot
2019-09-10T12:17:25 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> But o/ again
2019-09-10T12:19:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup. There are ways to log it yourself but it requires keeping your PC online 24/7.
2019-09-10T12:19:35 #kisslinux <jml_> setup a bouncer
2019-09-10T12:19:41 #kisslinux <jml_> I'm using ZNC on a VPS.
2019-09-10T12:19:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's a good idea too.
2019-09-10T12:20:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm fine with globbot for my needs though.
2019-09-10T12:20:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm just glad I don't need to run a webapp whenever I'm online anymore.
2019-09-10T12:20:50 #kisslinux <jml_> a bouncer also hides your IP
2019-09-10T12:22:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup.
2019-09-10T12:22:52 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> Hmm… I may have a use for my RPi then lol
2019-09-10T13:20:25 #kisslinux <konimex> > (dylanaraps) (Tue September 10 2019 12:08:17) It's because IRC is "boring" now.
2019-09-10T13:20:33 #kisslinux <konimex> hey, if people want their memes, more power to them
2019-09-10T13:20:48 #kisslinux <konimex> I, for one, am glad to leave discord
2019-09-10T13:37:22 #kisslinux <Jackojc> irc is bad, dont change my mind
2019-09-10T13:38:38 #kisslinux <Jackojc> i do dislike discord but i feel like there isnt a decent competitor, irc is a bit basic
2019-09-10T13:59:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> As am I Konimex.
2019-09-10T13:59:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: I agree.
2019-09-10T14:00:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My net is laggy, dunno if these messages are sending.
2019-09-10T14:00:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb
2019-09-10T14:00:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Jackojc: Words are all that is needed.
2019-09-10T14:00:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> IRC has words.
2019-09-10T14:01:23 #kisslinux <Jackojc> eh, i dont really agree on that honestly
2019-09-10T14:01:34 #kisslinux <Jackojc> plus the organisational aspect isnt as great either
2019-09-10T14:01:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Elaborate?
2019-09-10T14:01:43 #kisslinux <Jackojc> multiple channels under a single server is very handy
2019-09-10T14:02:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We can set up multiple here.
2019-09-10T14:02:05 #kisslinux <konimex> good thing IRC has multiple channels in a single server
2019-09-10T14:02:07 #kisslinux <Jackojc> oh you can? fair enough
2019-09-10T14:02:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I own #kisslinux*
2019-09-10T14:02:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I just haven't set any up yet.
2019-09-10T14:02:18 #kisslinux <konimex> #archlinux and ##linux exist
2019-09-10T14:02:36 #kisslinux <Brutus> oh this channel is smaller than I expected
2019-09-10T14:02:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What were you expecting?
2019-09-10T14:02:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :P
2019-09-10T14:02:49 #kisslinux <Brutus> Hi everyone :)
2019-09-10T14:02:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hello
2019-09-10T14:02:59 #kisslinux <konimex> a lot of technical points are raised about discord and they're all good, but for me it's a bit personal
2019-09-10T14:03:12 #kisslinux <konimex> I don't like their "twitch chat" culture
2019-09-10T14:03:12 #kisslinux <Brutus> Discord?
2019-09-10T14:03:19 #kisslinux * Brutus grabs a stake and a cross
2019-09-10T14:03:26 #kisslinux <Brutus> where's the garlic?
2019-09-10T14:03:45 #kisslinux <Jackojc> what do you mean by twitch chat culture?
2019-09-10T14:04:21 #kisslinux <konimex> well, discord is primarily marketed to gamers, first and foremost aye?
2019-09-10T14:04:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Discord is _for_ gamers and very clearly caters to that audience.
2019-09-10T14:04:50 #kisslinux <Jackojc> sure but that doesnt mean you cant have decent discussions
2019-09-10T14:05:01 #kisslinux <Jackojc> my biggest issue is just that its proprietary
2019-09-10T14:05:10 #kisslinux <konimex> most of the time, you won't have decent discussions though
2019-09-10T14:05:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm sick of all the Anime stuff too.
2019-09-10T14:05:25 #kisslinux <Jackojc> i beg to differ lol
2019-09-10T14:05:32 #kisslinux <Jackojc> ive had plenty of good discussions on servers
2019-09-10T14:05:45 #kisslinux <Brutus> I'm kind of stuck here: https://i.imgur.com/FkboiJK.png
2019-09-10T14:05:47 #kisslinux <Jackojc> just avoid the shitty gamer servers
2019-09-10T14:05:51 #kisslinux <Brutus> that's after doing the kiss build
2019-09-10T14:06:10 #kisslinux <Brutus> did I do something wrong? I don't know where the log files are
2019-09-10T14:06:49 #kisslinux <Jackojc> says out of memory
2019-09-10T14:06:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ^
2019-09-10T14:06:54 #kisslinux <Brutus> ohh where
2019-09-10T14:06:58 #kisslinux <Jackojc> oom killer
2019-09-10T14:07:01 #kisslinux <Brutus> ohhhh
2019-09-10T14:07:09 #kisslinux <Jackojc> about halfway down
2019-09-10T14:07:12 #kisslinux <Brutus> I missed that line. ok that's great, i'll add memory
2019-09-10T14:07:34 #kisslinux <Brutus> Guess you need more than 1GB for it to run
2019-09-10T14:07:58 #kisslinux <konimex> since we're dealing with compiling stuff, I'd throw 4GB
2019-09-10T14:08:20 #kisslinux <Brutus> yeah just added that to the vm
2019-09-10T14:08:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> export MAKEFLAGS='-j1 -l1' should reduce memory usage (but will increase time a ton).
2019-09-10T14:09:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Removing '-pipe' from your CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS will reduce memory usage too (if you have it added).
2019-09-10T14:09:00 #kisslinux <Brutus> dylanaraps: good tip. In this case since it's a VM, adding memory is easier
2019-09-10T14:10:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dash has some weird quirks: https://github.com/kisslinux/kiss/commit/ff80aa1984b0f46d0b914020990172e8dfcddbea
2019-09-10T14:10:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'shift' (even with '|| :
2019-09-10T14:10:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops
2019-09-10T14:10:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'shift' (even with '|| :' to catch errors) will cause the script to abort if no arguments exist.
2019-09-10T14:11:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 'read -r' without a variable errors in dash too.
2019-09-10T14:11:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> '$REPLY' doesn't exist in dash(?)
2019-09-10T14:11:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Other than these it works 100% fine.
2019-09-10T14:11:58 #kisslinux <konimex> (Jackojc) just avoid the shitty gamer servers
2019-09-10T14:12:01 #kisslinux <konimex> yeah, about that...
2019-09-10T14:12:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Discord requires an account too.
2019-09-10T14:12:52 #kisslinux <Brutus> dylanaraps: that's good information :)
2019-09-10T14:14:26 #kisslinux <konimex> how's dash speed pitted against busybox ash?
2019-09-10T14:14:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ash is faster.
2019-09-10T14:14:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The whole zero overhead for subshells and external commands and all
2019-09-10T14:15:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Don't get me wrong, it's still fast with dash.
2019-09-10T14:15:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The next step is to ensure all POSIX commands use POSIX flags.
2019-09-10T14:16:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (This excludes things like 'tar', 'git' and 'rsync' of course)
2019-09-10T14:17:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ➜ cloc kiss
2019-09-10T14:17:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kiss: 539
2019-09-10T14:17:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We're still good with script size.
2019-09-10T14:19:27 #kisslinux <Jackojc> its really not that hard with decent moderation (konimex)
2019-09-10T14:19:33 #kisslinux <Jackojc> is that how i tag people btw?
2019-09-10T14:19:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> username: message
2019-09-10T14:19:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Usually.
2019-09-10T14:19:45 #kisslinux <Jackojc> ah
2019-09-10T14:19:59 #kisslinux <konimex> just mention the nick, I use () since i'm on mobile client
2019-09-10T14:20:12 #kisslinux <Jackojc> ah alright, thanks
2019-09-10T14:20:41 #kisslinux <Jackojc> but anyway, im in a number of servers with good moderation related to programming
2019-09-10T14:21:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> weechat works with the username anywhere in the message though.
2019-09-10T14:21:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which is nice.
2019-09-10T14:21:01 #kisslinux <Jackojc> because in those communities at least, its not really welcome
2019-09-10T14:21:27 #kisslinux <konimex> that's really all proper irc clients
2019-09-10T14:21:27 #kisslinux <Brutus> ok silly question probably. according to the excluded software, gnu coreutils is excluded. but doesn't that part contain stuff like mv, rm, touch etc?
2019-09-10T14:21:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We use busybox in its place.
2019-09-10T14:21:52 #kisslinux <Brutus> does that have the same commands?
2019-09-10T14:22:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There are other coreutils implementations too (sbase, toybox, etc).
2019-09-10T14:22:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes.
2019-09-10T14:22:06 #kisslinux <konimex> but the convention is nick first then : or , just like discord, but without the @
2019-09-10T14:22:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There are differing flags of course but they more or less work the same.
2019-09-10T14:22:28 #kisslinux <Brutus> dylanaraps: ah ok i wasn't aware. i'll find out how it works soon enough hopefully :P
2019-09-10T14:22:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> busybox supports a lot of GNU coreutils flags too. :)
2019-09-10T14:22:54 #kisslinux <konimex> well if you're lost --help will come in handy
2019-09-10T14:23:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The upside to busybox is that it's tiny compared to GNU coreutils.
2019-09-10T14:23:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We also build it statically (Not possible with glibc/gnu coreutils).
2019-09-10T14:24:00 #kisslinux <Brutus> well that's always a good thing
2019-09-10T14:24:42 #kisslinux <Brutus> Would it be easy to install this on an Arm processor? If you put a Arm capable kernel on it, should that work?
2019-09-10T14:24:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nope.
2019-09-10T14:25:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You'd need a 'kiss-chroot' compiled for ARM.
2019-09-10T14:25:11 #kisslinux <Brutus> ahhh ok yeah that makes sense
2019-09-10T14:25:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then every package would need testing.
2019-09-10T14:25:51 #kisslinux <Brutus> yeah that is a lot of work as well.
2019-09-10T14:26:08 #kisslinux <konimex> kiss (both the package manager and the distro) don't support cross-compiling too so compiling from x86_64 to ARM won't work for the time being
2019-09-10T14:26:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Keeping support to x86-64 makes everything easier to maintain and results in less code in each build script.
2019-09-10T14:26:24 #kisslinux <konimex> and cross-compiling is a pain to follow the rabbit hole
2019-09-10T14:26:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah, I really don't want to touch cross-compiling.
2019-09-10T14:27:11 #kisslinux <Brutus> konimex: yeah i just didn't think of the software needing to be compiled differently as well. that will take way too much time
2019-09-10T14:27:34 #kisslinux <Brutus> dylanaraps: it would become a different distro by itself then i guess
2019-09-10T14:27:57 #kisslinux <Brutus> Would have been fun for on the pinetab when it comes out
2019-09-10T14:28:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What is usually done is a bunch of checks for architecture.
2019-09-10T14:28:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then specific options to each one.
2019-09-10T14:28:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then there's patches too...
2019-09-10T14:28:31 #kisslinux <Brutus> Which is fine for a big distro with a lot of people working on it
2019-09-10T14:28:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If cross-compiling is supported you basically have to duplicate the script in itself.
2019-09-10T14:29:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's all a hacky mess if you've read the build scripts for major distros.
2019-09-10T14:30:29 #kisslinux <Brutus> I believe you
2019-09-10T14:30:35 #kisslinux <konimex> maybe if someone wants to retrofit kiss (pkg manager), they can make use of passing the variables ("$1" and "$2" and so on...) as a clever way
2019-09-10T14:30:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> passing ARCH as '$2' would help here.
2019-09-10T14:31:27 #kisslinux <Brutus> (sorry i have to make this joke) passing gentoo as '$3' would help too
2019-09-10T14:31:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Gentoo has issues too.
2019-09-10T14:32:07 #kisslinux <Brutus> Aware. Was just makeing a joke, ARCH as Arch,
2019-09-10T14:32:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2019-09-10T14:32:35 #kisslinux <Brutus> anyway, back to work for a bit
2019-09-10T14:32:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ciao
2019-09-10T14:39:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I wonder if there's a utility to lint whether or not your usage of commands like `grep` is POSIX or not.
2019-09-10T14:40:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can write a proper parser in ash (using non-posix extensions ironically).
2019-09-10T14:49:39 #kisslinux <jml_> people got Apple's T2 chip working with linux. https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux/issues/71
2019-09-10T14:50:12 #kisslinux <jml_> I've got MacBook Air 2018. I'll be installing KISS on that after I got my dotfiles finished on my desktop.
2019-09-10T14:57:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice
2019-09-10T15:04:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/
2019-09-10T15:06:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://ungleich.ch/en-us/cms/blog/2019/05/20/linux-distros-without-systemd/
2019-09-10T15:06:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS has been included on this page (right at the bottom).
2019-09-10T15:06:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It'll be interesting to see how much traffic this drives our way.
2019-09-10T15:09:46 #kisslinux <jml_> Is KISS posted yet on hacker news?
2019-09-10T15:14:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nope.
2019-09-10T15:14:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm holding off for a little bit.
2019-09-10T15:15:10 #kisslinux <Brutus> it's also not on distrowatch
2019-09-10T15:15:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Need some breather time.
2019-09-10T15:15:34 #kisslinux <Brutus> when did the project start?
2019-09-10T15:15:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I submitted KISS to Distrowatch, it takes them some time to go through the applications.
2019-09-10T15:16:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A hackernews post may prompt them to bump it up the queue.
2019-09-10T15:16:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Distrowatch are a little anal regarding installation methods though.
2019-09-10T15:16:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No ISO is a no go for them.
2019-09-10T15:16:46 #kisslinux <Brutus> ahh
2019-09-10T15:18:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> commit 0cda243d535f11e7c26b9182bc63e425deb5ba45
2019-09-10T15:18:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Author: Dylan Araps <dylan.araps⊙gc>
2019-09-10T15:18:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Date: Thu May 9 09:46:50 2019 +0300
2019-09-10T15:18:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> new package manager experiment
2019-09-10T15:18:21 #kisslinux <Brutus> dylanaraps: i think you are the reason i'm here. some reddit user called "Dylan112" talked about his setup ;)
2019-09-10T15:18:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> May 9 was when the first commit was created.
2019-09-10T15:18:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2019-09-10T15:18:35 #kisslinux <Brutus> ah ok that's very recent and already a working system
2019-09-10T15:19:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I started this when Summer began of course...
2019-09-10T15:19:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So I'd do 5-6 hours in the morning and then spend the next 6-7 at the beach.
2019-09-10T15:19:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol
2019-09-10T15:20:00 #kisslinux <Brutus> that's a serious amount of work in such a small time
2019-09-10T15:20:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The weather has finally started to die down a little bit so I can work on it more.
2019-09-10T15:20:38 #kisslinux <Brutus> dylanaraps: you don't have any school/work to go to?
2019-09-10T15:20:43 #kisslinux <Brutus> your github page is impressive
2019-09-10T15:20:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Whenever I post to Reddit I end up monitoring comments for around 18~ hours.
2019-09-10T15:20:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then I finally sleep..
2019-09-10T15:21:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I didn't do High School.
2019-09-10T15:21:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did 3 years of university though.
2019-09-10T15:21:19 #kisslinux <Brutus> oh ok
2019-09-10T15:21:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I started at university at 17.
2019-09-10T15:21:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Did 2 years of comp-sci, dropped out and did a year of journalism before dropping out again. ;)
2019-09-10T15:22:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then I moved to Greece.
2019-09-10T15:23:13 #kisslinux <Brutus> that is impressive
2019-09-10T15:23:49 #kisslinux <Brutus> weird though, i should be mad at you. you said some bad things about a friend of mine. i do remember that, but i can't remember what you said
2019-09-10T15:24:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> University in Australia was laughable. Course materials 6+ years out of date which is especially bad in this field.
2019-09-10T15:24:56 #kisslinux <Brutus> most schools/universities are out of date
2019-09-10T15:25:30 #kisslinux <Brutus> especially in regard to IT, it's always behind. where i went to college was really behind. was running windows 7 and they were still teaching NT 3.51
2019-09-10T15:28:22 #kisslinux <saucecode> did any of you learn to program from a formal university class or similar? I feel like that's the area that does the worst
2019-09-10T15:30:17 #kisslinux <Brutus> other than doing bash scripts, i can't code. i've done html, css and php, i've modified python scripts, but i'm no programmer.
2019-09-10T15:31:27 #kisslinux <Brutus> i know some basic stuff. i spend more time writing LaTeX and markdown files
2019-09-10T15:32:03 #kisslinux <Brutus> oh time to go home, talk to y'all later
2019-09-10T15:32:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ciao
2019-09-10T16:22:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brutus: weird though, i should be mad at you. you said some bad things about a friend of mine. i do remember that, but i can't remember what you said
2019-09-10T16:22:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just saw this message (must've disconnected(?))
2019-09-10T16:22:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Care to elaborate?
2019-09-10T16:24:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I frequently disconnect due to my lack of a proper internet connection, does anyone know if weechat (for example) is able to fetch the last X messages from the server on join/reconnection?
2019-09-10T16:26:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> From Googling it seems that this would need to be a Freenode feature.
2019-09-10T16:28:39 #kisslinux <larbob> something like that is proposed for IRCv3. there's currently nothing like that in the irc protocol afaik.
2019-09-10T16:28:55 #kisslinux <larbob> it might be good to run a bouncer on a vps in that case
2019-09-10T16:32:22 #kisslinux <jml_> yeah its possible with ZNC
2019-09-10T16:32:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Freenode actually does spit out a number of previous messages if the client does /part before /join.
2019-09-10T16:33:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I use this "hack" in a simple IRC client I wrote to avoid having to keep message history.
2019-09-10T16:33:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/dylanaraps/birch
2019-09-10T16:35:00 #kisslinux <dylan-bash-clint> ;)
2019-09-10T16:35:22 #kisslinux <larbob> ah, that's on freenode's end though ofc
2019-09-10T16:35:27 #kisslinux <larbob> how many does it show
2019-09-10T16:36:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 10~
2019-09-10T16:36:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> About 10.
2019-09-10T16:37:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Only issue with this hack is that it spames join/leave messages.
2019-09-10T16:37:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> spams*
2019-09-10T16:38:28 #kisslinux <larbob> https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/batch/chathistory-3.3
2019-09-10T16:39:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/weechat/weechat/issues/1292
2019-09-10T16:39:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Doesn't seem to be supported in weechat yet.
2019-09-10T16:39:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nor in Freenode.
2019-09-10T16:40:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://ircv3.net/support/networks.html
2019-09-10T16:40:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though this website is a little out of date(?) Freenode supports echo-message as I currently use it here.
2019-09-10T16:42:39 #kisslinux <larbob> they accept PRs to help keep it updated
2019-09-10T16:44:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > server supports: extended-join multi-prefix identify-msg account-notify sasl
2019-09-10T16:44:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's not listed here though.
2019-09-10T16:44:58 #kisslinux <larbob> yeah, you add it if it is supported from what I can tell
2019-09-10T16:47:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Weird.
2019-09-10T16:47:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now I'm getting this:
2019-09-10T16:47:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > extended-join tls multi-prefix identify-msg account-notify
2019-09-10T16:47:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> │ chghost sasl cap-notify away-notify
2019-09-10T16:47:50 #kisslinux <larbob> e.g: https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3.github.io/commit/b1c0e5e66dbd22bb7b44d3701bdcb924a0358887
2019-09-10T16:48:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm trying to verify if echo-message _is_ actually supported before I submit a PR.
2019-09-10T16:49:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I currently patch weechat to support it on the client side.
2019-09-10T16:51:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> /quit brb
2019-09-10T16:55:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah. There's no support for echo-message on Freenode yet.
2019-09-10T16:55:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Checked the source code of their IRC daemon.
2019-09-10T17:01:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-9.0-Clang-9.0-Features
2019-09-10T17:01:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> LLVM/Clang 9.0 support building the kernel.
2019-09-10T17:01:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: :D
2019-09-10T18:43:31 #kisslinux <Brutus> dylanaraps: I'm friends with KittyKatt
2019-09-10T18:45:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I haven't said anything bad about him. Did I criticize Screenfetch? Yes. Did I say anything about him personally? No.
2019-09-10T18:46:14 #kisslinux <Brutus> i can't remember exactly what you said, but there were some quotes on another website, but that was a while ago
2019-09-10T18:46:27 #kisslinux <Brutus> anyway, let's forget it about it anyway. past is the past
2019-09-10T18:47:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't like it when things like that are said without any basis or source behind them.
2019-09-10T18:48:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My (since deleted) page about Screenfetch is still available here: https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/wiki/Neofetch-vs.-Screenfetch/52d8deb6c0cd96d1d1c44d609f09240c3af5274a
2019-09-10T18:49:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Is my writing in this instance harsh? Sure. Did I say anything bad or harmful to KittyKat personally? No.
2019-09-10T18:51:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I was young when I wrote this (17(?)) and had this page been written today it'd be in a more diplomatic tone, however I still stand by my words.
2019-09-10T18:52:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I removed this page last year(or earlier?) with the intent to rewrite it in my present voice but I never got around to it.
2019-09-10T19:46:01 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> dylanaraps: this page seems fine and is a good justification for neofetch. doesn't seem offensive imho
2019-09-10T19:50:18 #kisslinux <larbob> dylanaraps: you mind if I lift the way you detect cpu count on irix for a script?
2019-09-10T19:50:25 #kisslinux <larbob> I already had a way of doing it but it's stupid :)
2019-09-10T19:51:03 #kisslinux <larbob> I was using the AVAIL_PROCESSORS value in sysconf instead of NPROC_ONLN; you can't just pass AVAIL_PROCESSORS as an argument to sysconf unlike NPROC_ONLN
2019-09-10T19:59:01 #kisslinux <larbob> basically gonna go from `$(sysconf | grep AVAIL_PROCESSORS | awk '{print $2}')` to `$(sysconf NPROC_ONLN)`
2019-09-10T20:46:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> larbob: You're within the license so long as you retain attribution (just link to neofetch)
2019-09-10T20:47:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I didn't personally write it otherwise I'd just say "go for it" unconditionally.
2019-09-10T20:47:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nihiltarier: I feel the same way, people have a problem with it though. See: https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/issues/1273
2019-09-10T20:51:30 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> Just look forward to rewrite your page in near-future, I think it could avoid any controversy to come.
2019-09-10T20:52:20 #kisslinux <larbob> dylanaraps: I believe it doesn't meet the threshold of originality (it's just running a command that's builtin)
2019-09-10T20:52:28 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> dylanaraps: a question related to your setup: how to you check for current time and battery on your system? I see that you're not using a static bar anymore
2019-09-10T20:53:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > I believe it doesn't meet the threshold of originality (it's just running a command
2019-09-10T20:53:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> │ that's builtin)
2019-09-10T20:53:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In that case it's fine.
2019-09-10T20:53:34 #kisslinux <larbob> cool ty
2019-09-10T20:53:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I wasn't sure as to how much code it contained.
2019-09-10T20:53:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Was playing it safe.
2019-09-10T20:54:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't know the date/time usually.
2019-09-10T20:54:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't _need_ to know for my day to day life.
2019-09-10T20:55:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My laptop is only ever off of power for a few hours. I kinda know when my time is up and I have to go plug it in.
2019-09-10T20:55:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I check with `neofetch battery`.
2019-09-10T20:55:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ➜ neofetch battery
2019-09-10T20:56:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> battery1: 90% [Discharging]
2019-09-10T21:01:16 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> o/
2019-09-10T21:01:21 #kisslinux <dithpri> hello!
2019-09-10T21:01:42 #kisslinux <dithpri> so... obvious reasons of IRC is discord being spyware?
2019-09-10T21:02:27 #kisslinux <saucecode> i suspected it just meant "discord does what IRC does, but with 100x the resource usage and useless features"
2019-09-10T21:02:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It also requires an account to be able to communicate.
2019-09-10T21:02:55 #kisslinux <dithpri> true
2019-09-10T21:02:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And you're forced into using their proprietary client.
2019-09-10T21:03:21 #kisslinux <dithpri> IRC seems more in-line with a KISS philosophy
2019-09-10T21:03:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-09-10T21:03:45 #kisslinux <dithpri> I use discord almost exclusively in a browser, didn't want to install a binary
2019-09-10T21:03:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did the same.
2019-09-10T21:04:05 #kisslinux <saucecode> a friend and I are working on a third party client :3
2019-09-10T21:04:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> God knows what the desktop software is doing...
2019-09-10T21:04:47 #kisslinux <dithpri> well, they have to have *some* business strategy, so I'm guessing selling data
2019-09-10T21:04:58 #kisslinux <dithpri> But that's mostly from conversations probably
2019-09-10T21:05:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nope
2019-09-10T21:05:06 #kisslinux <dithpri> So idk if a third party client would help
2019-09-10T21:05:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Everything
2019-09-10T21:05:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Whatever data they can gather.
2019-09-10T21:05:23 #kisslinux <dithpri> yikes
2019-09-10T21:05:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They scan the system process list in the desktop client.
2019-09-10T21:05:48 #kisslinux <saucecode> [citation needed]
2019-09-10T21:06:30 #kisslinux <dithpri> sauce: yep, but I guess it's safe to assume that anyway
2019-09-10T21:06:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/43lqyb/why_is_discord_recording_our_open_programs_and/czje04s/
2019-09-10T21:06:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> From the CTO of Discord.
2019-09-10T21:06:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We watch the process list for 3 reasons.
2019-09-10T21:06:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Detect games to show on your status message. You can turn this off anytime in the privacy tab of settings.
2019-09-10T21:06:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Detect games to hook the overlay into if it is enabled.
2019-09-10T21:06:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Detect games run as administrator to warn that Push to talk won't work.
2019-09-10T21:07:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You cannot disable the scanning as the 3rd reason is always required.
2019-09-10T21:07:23 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> > Detect games to show on your status message. You can turn this off anytime in the privacy tab of settings. okay, which goddamn games?
2019-09-10T21:07:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They need to read the entire process list for this to work.
2019-09-10T21:09:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> From their privacy policy:
2019-09-10T21:09:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Aggregated Information: In an ongoing effort to better understand and serve the users of the Services, we may conduct research on our customer demographics, interests and behavior based on the information collected. This research may be compiled and analyzed on an aggregate basis, and we may share this aggregate data with our affiliates, agents and business partners. We may also disclose
2019-09-10T21:09:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> aggregated user statistics in order to describe our services to current and prospective business partners, and to other third parties for other lawful purposes.
2019-09-10T21:09:30 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> Yikes.
2019-09-10T21:09:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> . We may expand our use of cookies to save additional data as new features are added to the Service. In addition, we use technologies such as web beacons and single-pixel gifs to record log data such as open rates for emails sent by the system.
2019-09-10T21:10:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You may see our Service advertised in other applications or websites. After clicking on one of these advertisements and installing our Service, you will become a user of the Service. Advertising platforms, which include Twitter and Facebook (and whose SDKs are integrated within our Service), may collect information for optimizing advertising campaigns outside of the Service.
2019-09-10T21:10:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The Company and its affiliates may use this information to contact you in the future to tell you about services we believe will be of interest to you.
2019-09-10T21:11:12 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> yeah, they love privacy. i see.
2019-09-10T21:11:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Business Transfers: As we develop our business, we might sell or buy businesses or assets. In the event of a corporate sale, merger, reorganization, bankruptcy, dissolution or similar event, your information may be part of the transferred assets.
2019-09-10T21:11:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is my favourite: your information may be part of the transferred assets.
2019-09-10T21:11:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your data is an asset
2019-09-10T21:11:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also:
2019-09-10T21:11:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Developers: Developers using our SDK or API will have access to their end users’ information, including message content, message metadata, and voice metadata. Developers must use such information only to provide the SDK/API functionality within their applications and/or services.
2019-09-10T21:11:59 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> An asset a company can use without your permission 😮️
2019-09-10T21:12:08 #kisslinux <larbob> also don't forget this: https://www.wowhead.com/news=294595/classic-wow-raid-reset-days-and-schedule
2019-09-10T21:12:16 #kisslinux <larbob> oh wow thanks for not copying the link...
2019-09-10T21:12:16 #kisslinux <larbob> sec
2019-09-10T21:12:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Developers using the SDK/API have access to messa content.
2019-09-10T21:12:31 #kisslinux <larbob> https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9p5uyp/latest_tos_update_revokes_your_right_to_sue/
2019-09-10T21:12:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> message*
2019-09-10T21:12:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Aggregated or Non-identifiable Data: We may also share aggregated or non-personally identifiable information with our partners or others for business purposes.
2019-09-10T21:13:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You may provide us with ideas for new products or modifications to existing products, and other unsolicited submissions (collectively, “Unsolicited Information”). All Unsolicited Information shall be deemed to be non-confidential and we shall be free to reproduce, use, disclose, and distribute such Unsolicited Information to others without limitation or attribution.
2019-09-10T21:13:25 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> Ugh, can't I just throw every tech I own into the trashbin rn?
2019-09-10T21:13:43 #kisslinux <saucecode> larbob: afaik arbitration clauses have varying degrees of validity, depending on what country you're in
2019-09-10T21:14:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We reserve the right to update or modify this Privacy Policy at any time and from time to time without prior notice. Please review this policy periodically, and especially before you provide any information.
2019-09-10T21:14:13 #kisslinux <saucecode> and most companies have such clauses which aren't as effective as the name suggests
2019-09-10T21:14:55 #kisslinux <saucecode> the Valve subscriber agreement has an arbitration clause, but US citizens successfully filed a class-action lawsuit during the gambling debacle
2019-09-10T21:15:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> it just depends on which way the wind blows on that particular day.
2019-09-10T21:23:39 #kisslinux <larbob> saucecode: mhm
2019-09-10T22:22:55 #kisslinux <Nihiltarier> https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/boi3pl/dwm_plan_9_feel/ Wow, I absolutely love this setup. I'll go with it when I'm able to install KISS because reasons lol