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LIST FILE ON MARGIN IS 22 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 629 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 *********************** REMOVED: 4 NOV 83 *************************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ============================================== 24 25 God is Holy, 26 Man is Not, 27 Man made whiskey, 28 God made pot.! 29 30 31 32 RE: THE BIT ABOUT DESIGN BEING APPARENT IN THE WORLD, IT IS INTERESTING TO 33 NOTE THAT MANY MORE PROGRAMMERS AND ENGINEERS THAN SCIENTISTS ARE RELIGIOUS. 34 I'M AFRAID I MUST ADMIT (BEING ONE OF THE PROGRAMMERS) THAT THIS FORMER 35 GROUP HAS A CERTAIN SORT OF STRAIGHT LINE MENTALITY. WHENEVER CREATIONISTS 36 TROT OUT A PET 'SCIENTIST' TO SUPPORT THEIR VEIWS, HE MOST OFTEN TURNS 37 OUT ACTUALLY TO BE AN ENGINEER, AN ADMINISTRATOR AT A UNIVERSITY, A FAKE, 38 OR A FAILED SCIENTIST. ENGINEERS AND PROGRAMMERS THINK IN TERMS OF DESIGN 39 WHEN IT COMES TO ALMOST ANYTHING. 40 THE FACT THAT SOMETHING HAS AN INTRICATE INTERNAL MAKEUP PROVES NOTHING 41 AT ALL. THIS ARGUMENT IS STRICTLY NON SEQUITER. THIS PARTICULAR TRAIN 42 OF THOUGHT HAS BEEN DISSEMINATED FROM THE TOP OF THE MORAL MAJORITY 43 PYRAMID, SO I ASSUME THAT FALWELL ET AL HAVE GREAT HOPE FOR IT. WE ASSUME 44 THAT ALL THINGS HAVE BOTH COMPLEX AND SIMPLE ASPECTS... 45 IT IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THAT THE CREATIONISTS CAN'T IMAGINE 46 ANY OTHER WAY FOR THINGS TO HAVE COME ABOUT THAN THE WAY THEY ARE ALREADY 47 BAISED TOWARDS. BUT THATS NOT THE SOLUTION, THATS THE PROBLEM. 48 ANYWAY, D AND DEB ARE BOTH IGNORING WHAT I CHALLENGED THEM WITH BEFORE: 49 THAT EVOLUTION OF THESE COMPLEX CREATURES IS NOT IN DOUBT - BECAUSE IT 50 GOES ON RIGHT NOW, EVERY MINUTE. WE CAN SEE IT HAPPENING IN REAL TIME 51 EXPERIMENTS. WE GIVE A COLONY A STIMULUS OR VECTOR AND THE COLONY OF 52 ORGANISMS SHIFTS IN IT'S CHARACTERISTICS. DARWIN, ET AL DID NOT COME 53 UP WITH THEIR THEORIES SOLELY FROM FOSSILS - THE MOST PERSUASIVE EVIDENCE 54 CAME FROM LIVING CREATURES. 55 56 D AND DEB: I WOULD LIKE TO ESTABLISH SOMETHING. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE 57 OTHER MAJOR RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD ARE EQUALLY AVALID AS THE CHRISTIAN 58 RELIGION YOU YOURSELVES ESPOUSE? IF NOT, EXPLAIN TO US WHY YOU THINK 59 CHRISTIANITY IS BETTER. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF I SHOULD ARGUE AGAINST 60 RELIGION IN THE ABSTRACT, OR JUST THE TENENTS OF YOUR PARTICULAR 61 RELIGION, OR IF YOU ARE MEMBERS OF SOME GROUP OR CULT THAT IS NOT MAIN 62 LINE CHRISTIANITY WHICH ONE. ALSO, COULD YOU TELL US WHICH VERSION OF 63 THE BIBLE YOU WILL BE USING. I WAS UNABLE TO FIND THE WORD EMBRYO IN 64 THE VERSION I'M USING. OR DO YOU REGARD ALL VERSIONS AS EQUALLY VALID. 65 66 NOT, I SHOULD SAY, THAT I THINK WE SHOULD REFER TO THE 'GOOD BOOK' AS 67 THE MAIN SOURCE OF EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST - THAT WOULD REDUCE US TO 68 PROOF BY 'REDUCTIO AD ABSURBAM' - THE EXAMINATION OF CONTRADICTIONS. 69 CHRISTIANS ALWAYS RESOLVE THESE IN THE END BY REWRITING THE 'WORD OF 70 GOD' INTO A MORE 'CORRECT' AND 'MODERN' TRANSLATION WHEN THEY CAN'T JUST 71 BE IGNORED. NOT THAT A PERFECTLY CONSISTENT BIBLE SHOULD BE THE 72 PROOF OF CHRISTIANITY BEING CORRECT. THERE ARE OTHER RELIGIONS THAT 73 ARE MUCH MORE CONSISTENT INTERNALLY, BUT I SUSPECT THAT D AND DEB 74 WOULD REJECT THEIR CLAIMS. 75 76 SOMEBODY UP THERE USED THE PHRASE 'CROSS-EXAMINE'. WOULD ONE OR THE OTHER 77 OF YOU BE MORE COMFORTABLE CRITICIZING THE SCIENTIFIC VIEW THAN 78 DEFENDING THE (MORMON, METHODISTS, CHURCH OF THE FOUR SQUARE BOOK OF CHRIST, 79 CATHOLIC, JEWISH OR WHATEVER) POINT OF VEIW? HOW ABOUT IF ONE OF YOU DOES 80 ONE AND THE OTHER THE OTHER? OR SOME SUCH. *BOTH* POINTS OF VEIW SHOULD BE 81 BOTH PROPOSED AND DEFENDED, AS THE POSITION OF CRITIC IS MUCH TOO EASY 82 TO GET AWAY WITH INTELLECTUALLY 83 84 AARON: THERE ARE A LOT OF DEAD HEADS IN THE WORLD, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM HAVE 85 LOW IQ'S. MOST PEOPLE WITH HIGH IQ'S, REMEMBER, NEVER DO ANYTHING PARTICUL- 86 ARLY WORTHWILE IN THE LARGE SENSE. ALSO, I *DO* BELIEVE THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE 87 SPEND BIG BUCKS FOR MINOR AMUSEMENTS. FOR INSTANCE,A HALLOWEEN PARTY I WAS 88 AT LAST NIGHT HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT MICROWAVE OVENS. MOST PEOPLE THERE 89 CONFESSED THAT THEY RARELY USED THEIRS FOR ANYTHING BUT HEATING COFFEE AND 90 PASTRY. THESE THINGS COST UP TO $2,000. I THINK THAT PEOPLE SPEND THEIR 91 MONEY ON WHATYEVERS POPULAR, USUALLY, AND RIGHT NOW COMPUTERS ARE POPULAR. 92 SO IN ADDITION TO DEFENDING MY POSITION THAT THE PEOPLE WHO DIAL UP THESE 93 BBS'S (GOOD ABBREV!) NOT NECESSARILY BEING ALL ELIGIBLE FOR MENSA, I WILL 94 ADD ANOTHER: BEING REALLY SMART IQ WISE PROBABLY DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE 95 THAT MUCH SMARTER THAN PEOPLE THAN COMPLETELY AVERAGE PEOPLE. TOO MANY 96 OTHER FACTORS DETERMINE WHO IS REALLY 'SMART'. THESE INCLUDE QUALITIES 97 LIKE DETERMINATION, LEADERSHIP, SENSE OF PURPOSE, WISDOM, EXPERIENCE, 98 QUALITY OF GOALS,AND A NUMBER OF OTHERS. I ARGUE THAT THESE ALL CAN BE 99 MORE IMPORTANT THAN I.Q. IN DETERMINING A PERSONS FATE OR THEIR VALUE TO 100 SOCIETY. REMEMBER THAT EINSTEIN WOULD *NOT* HAVE QUALIFIED FOR MENSA - 101 HIS I.Q. WAS NOT IN THE TOP TWO PERCENT. ALSO REMEMBER THAT I.Q. TESTS 102 ONLY TEST A FEW (ALBEIT VERY IMPORTANT) SKILLS. NEW VERSIONS OF INTELLI- 103 GENCE TESTS JUST COMING OUT TEST OVER A HUNDRED DIFFERENT SKILLS, INCLUDING 104 THINGS LIKE THE ABILITY TO RAPIDLY ASSESS A GIVEN SOCIAL SITUATION FOR 105 THE SUBTLE NUANCES IN IT (SOMETHING MEN ARE OFTEN BAD AT - REMEMBER MEN 106 DESIGNED THE OLD I.Q. TESTS) AND OTHER IMPORTANT BUT HITHERTO NEGLECTED 107 ABILITIES LIKE THE ABILITY TO DRAW OR DO MUSIC OR UNDERSTAND MOTIVATION. 108 A NUMBER OF THESE ARE ABILITIES THAT TECHNO-NERDS ARE INFAMOUS FOR BEING 109 NO GOOD AT. AND THESE ABILITIES ARE MUCH MORE RELEVANT TO ONES QUALIFICA- 110 ]TIONS FOR COMMENTING ON POLITICS OR MORALS THAN SPATIAL RECONITION 111 SKILLS, OR CALCULUS. 112 SO WATCH OUT, CAUSE THE 'TOP 10 PERCENT' IS LIKELY TO BE REDEFINED ANY 113 TIME. AND IT WILL BE THE RARE EXCEPTION AMONG THE CURRENT WINNERS OF THE 114 HIGH IQ SWEEPSTAKES WHO DOESN'T LOSE SOME OF HIS OR HER SUPPOSED EDGE. 115 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE MODEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 116 P.S. THE WORD FOR HE AND SHE, SINGULAR OR PLURAL, IS KOIE IN CANTONESE. 117 WONDER WHY WE CAN'T COME UP WITH ONE LIKE THAT, OR JUST START USING THE 118 WORD 'THEY' LIKE MOST OF US WANT TO - A WORD WITH NO SEXUAL OR NUMERIC 119 BIAS INDICATING SOME SIZE GROUP OR SET OF PEOPLE, SPECIFICATION NOT 120 NECESSARY? 121 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 122 123 ***************************************************************** 124 I must say, I am confused at the tone you have taken on the 125 backups. After screaming to have them, now you are screaming 126 foul. What do you want?! I am supplying the backups via my 127 company (U.S. DIGITAL) as a service, not to make profit. The 128 prices were calculated to only recover the cost of the work, not 129 to make a profit. They are set at the 'Break even point'. If you 130 feel very strongly about this then I will remove the disks and 131 not offer them for sale or otherwise. But as I said, I am 132 confused at your reaction to this. As for the aspect of who owns 133 rights excetera, I might point out that these messages were left 134 on a 'public' BBS, and as such are public property. Meaning that 135 anyone can read and or redistribute these scrawings as they wish. 136 Not just me! Sigh.... Try to do something nice and this is the 137 thanks I get..... 138 ****** A very confused and frustrated CISTOP MIKEY ************** 139 ********************* 30 oct 83 *** 10:00PM ********************* 140 As a result of this I am withdrawing the archives until you decide 141 What it is that you really want. 142 ***************************************************************** 143 144 So that you won't think that Americans are the only ones who 145 are crazy, here are some excepts from British auto collision 146 reports. 147 148 The accident was due to the other man's narrowly missing me. 149 150 I collided with a stationary trolley coming in the opposite 151 direction. 152 153 In order to avoid a collision, I ran into the other car. 154 155 The other car collided with me without even warning me of 156 his intention. 157 158 There were plenty of onlookers but no witnesses. 159 160 The water in my radiator accidentally froze at midnight. 161 162 My car had to turn very sharply because of an invisible 163 truck. 164 165 I was just in the act of scraping my nearside on the curb 166 when the accident happened. 167 168 I collided with a stationary tree. There was no damage done 169 to the tree as the gatepost will testify. 170 171 The accident was entirely due to the road bending. 172 173 The witness gave his occupation as that of a gentleman, but 174 it actually would be more correct to call him a garage 175 proprietor. 176 177 The other man changed his mind, and I had to run into him. 178 179 One wheel went into the ditch. My foot jumped from brake to 180 accelerator, leaped across the road to the other side, and jumped 181 into the trunk of a tree. 182 183 I remember nothing after passing the Crown Hotel until I 184 came to and saw police officer Brown. 185 186 A bull was standing nearby annd a fly must have tickled him, 187 because he gored my car. 188 189 A cow wandered into my car. I was later informed that the 190 unfortunate cow was half-witted. 191 192 She suddenly saw me, lost her head, and we met. 193 194 If the other driver had stopped a few yards behind himself 195 it certainly would not have happened. 196 197 I was taking a friend home and following the lampposts, 198 which were in a straight line. Unfortunately there was a bend in 199 the road bringing the right-hand lamppost in line with the left, 200 so of course I landed in a ditch. 201 202 I bumped into a lamppost that was obscured by human beings. 203 204 I heard a horn blow and was struck violently in the back. 205 Evidently a lady was trying to pass me. 206 207 I misjudged a lady crossing the street. 208 209 Coming home I drove into the wrong house and then collided 210 with a tree I haven't got. 211 212 Three women were talking to one another, and when one 213 stepped forward, I had to have an accident. 214 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 215 Didja hear about the poor family? Scraped for six months to buy the 216 cheapest of home computers...and then it went condo. Yowza, yowza. 217 MIKEY! MIKEY! PLEASE OFFER THE DISKS, PAPER COPIES ETC. I HAVE BEEN WAITING 218 FOR MONTH FOR SOME WAY OTHER THAN COPYINGTO MY PRINTER. 219 HALF THE TIME I MISS A DISK OR TWO AND DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON 220 JUST LIKE NOW, WHO HAD THE NERVE TO COMPLAIN? IF THERE IS ANY ONE THAT DOES 221 NOT LIKE THE IDEA THEN THAYTS THEIR PROBLEM. IT'S A FREE COUNTRY AND I FOR 222 ONE WANT MY RIGHT TO BUY THE PAPER COPIES.!!!!! 223 224 #################C.Y.M##############################10/31 12:14AM########### 225 226 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 227 MIKEY, DID I MISS SOMETHING? THOUGH I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ON THIS (OR 228 THE LAST) DISK ABOUT THE BW RELEASE, I KNOW YOU WERE HOPING TO DO SO. 229 NOW I SEE THAT SOMEONE (WHERE OR HOW I DON'T KNOW) HAS DUMPED ON YOU 230 ABOUT IT. EITHER IT WAS ELIMINATED FROM THE DISK, OR IT WAS SAID TO YOU 231 THROUGH SOME OTHER MEDIUM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS SAID, BUT POINT ME TO 232 'EM AND I'LL PUNCH 'EM IN THE KNEECAP!! 233 TO WHOMEVER: MIKEY PROVIDES US WITH THIS FORUM AT HIS EXPENSE, FOR OUR 234 USE HOWEVER WE PREFER (CERTAIN LEVELS OF DECORUM NOTWITHSTANDING). 235 ANYTHING PLACED HEREIN IS HIS TO DO WITH AS HE SEES FIT, AND I THINK 236 THAT EVERYONE KNOWS IT. IF YOU WRITE ON THE WALLS OF A PUBLIC FORUM, 237 YOU CERTAINLY CAN'T EXPECT YOUR WORDS TO FOREVER REMAIN PRIVATE PROPERTY. 238 I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE RELEASES, AND OBVIOUSLY CYM WAS TOO. I 239 ALWAYS ATTEMPT TO REACT TO SUBJECTS IN AS OBJECTIVE A MANNER AS POSSIBLE, 240 BUT SEEING THE OFFENDED TONE IN MIKEY'S LAST MESSAGE HAS RAISED MY IRE. 241 IN OTHER WORDS............ BACK OFF!!!!!!!!! 242 243 d, YOUR LAST MESSAGE WAS BEAUTIFUL!! I WOULD LOVE TO COMMENT ON IT, 244 BUT RIGHT NOW, I SEETHE OVER THE OBVIOUSLY NOXIOUS REACTION TO THE FAVOR 245 OUR GRACIOUS HOST ATTEMPTED TO GIVE US. AS I KNOW THAT I DON'T WRITE 246 LOGICALLY WHEN I'M IN THIS STATE, I'LL WAIT UNTIL A LATER TIME TO 247 COMMENT. GROWL.... 248 249 [][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][][] 250 251 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 252 253 pam/cym: 254 $13 per printed unit (1 8 inch disk), 12 units availiable, each 255 unit covered approx 5 BW "disks"......the actual disk (for CP/M 256 people ) are/were availiable at $10 each (same number avail, same 257 content)...total collection $120 for disk, $156 for paper 258 VISA and MC , of course... 259 add: i think it was 12, may have been 13.... 260 the disks i refer to at $10 each had the data on them ; this 261 isn't the "new" cost.. 262 each disk prob holds approx 300k bytes of data, at approx 1000 263 char/page that would be 300 pages of output, considering ribbon 264 and paper and print head costs $13 might be a little on the 265 low side....prob the better deal,,,,few can read the cp/m anyway.... 266 267 who knows? maybe some "soothing tones" are just what mike needs 268 right now... anyone out there good at soothing? 269 Aaron 270 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>(2:35)<><><><><><><> 271 D: 272 RE my reluctance to expose my views (cont.) 273 --do you see some of the problem? I find that my belief system is quite 274 complex and somewhat inconsistent, although quite worn and comfortable. 275 I can give most adherents to most religions a sympathetic ear, although 276 I will not accept another set of beliefs. I consider myself quite religious 277 and (mostly) non christian for example. I accept the existance of a creator 278 or PRIME CAUSE, but find it hard to limit him/her/it to humanly 279 comprehensible stature as most christians seem to insist on doing. I 280 consider the old testament a unique tribal record of the Jewish people, 281 whose accuracy was preserved by the custom of stoning to death one who 282 changed any portion of the sacred book. This has mostly preserved the 283 original words. Unfortunately, our present cultures do not accord this 284 protection to other sacred writings, so the new testemant, koran, book of 285 morman, bahgvad ghita, etc. are all suspect to some degree. 286 I consider christ to be a great teacher, on par with budda, mohammed 287 and many others. I will accept that christ is the "son of "god"", but not 288 as a particular distinction -- we are all children of the infinite, and 289 you yourself are quite as holy as any of the religious teachers of the past. 290 With that rather opinionated pronouncement, i should also point out that 291 i am quite likely wrong in most if not all of my beliefs. However, they 292 have served well, fit comfortably, and are large enough to comfort me when 293 the weather turns cold. 294 ----------------Dusty----------------------------------------------------- 295 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 0734 Halloween [][][][][][][][][] 296 297 Mikey- I am very interested in the archives as well. I think that the 298 prices quoted by Aaron are quite reasonable, and I am more than 299 willing to pay that amount. I will start saving today. Is 300 there a chance of buying the paper copies in two parts ? That 301 might make it easier for some of the less affluent. (Read "more 302 in debt to outside creditors") Thanks. 303 304 D: Very well put. I am an agnostic, so will not participate, but I am 305 very interested in the discussion. Something is missing in my life 306 at least, and it may be religion, it may be drugs. I don't know. 307 Keep it going. 308 309 ?: It may be true that the problem is mostly economic, but what is the 310 solution ? If we stop paying the farmers to let fields lie fallow, 311 market prices will drop, farmers will go broke, and no one eats. 312 If we send the surplus to third world countries, then the balance of 313 trade figures go crazy. Again, at a later date, no one eats. 314 Where do we make the tradeoffs ? 315 In the United States, there is often criticism of emerging nations 316 about distribution of wealth. The haves get more, the have nots 317 don't. This may seem harsh, but in reality it is best for that 318 nation. It takes large amounts of capitol to accomplish the build- 319 ing of new industries, and keeping the new money in the hands of 320 a few is the only way to accomplish this. Unpopular position I 321 realize, but true. Some people must go hungry for the good of the 322 rest. Easy for me to say, I am told, but if it were me ... 323 Yes, I would yell the loudest, I am sure. But that would not make 324 right. 325 326 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] djj [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 327 328 *************************************************** 329 Don't bother me, I'm sulking..... 330 ******************** CISTOP MIKEY ****************************** 331 P.S. 12 disks $9.95 ea paper $12.95 ea 200K-240K ea per disk 332 aprox 50pages paper. 333 (After the 4th complaint I decided to remove all comments 334 and offering until things quieted down a bit and all could 335 come to some kind of consensis. I had one outright threat 336 sigh... anyway, one possiblity is that if we can get the 337 volume up enough, I can probably get the price down further. 338 How much depends on the number of orders. particularly the 339 paper since I can go to offset printing which would be cheaper 340 if I can get a min of 10 orders per. This would bring it down to 341 about $9 per. Same with disks, about $7 per in quantiy 10. 342 Another thing that can be done is to do the work on low end 343 priority meaning it could be anywheres from a couple of days to 344 a couple of months to get done. But this way it would not take 345 time away from other money making projects, and thus could 346 be done for esentially no labour costs. I would have to recalculate 347 this to find out exactly what the cost would be. Any thoughts? 348 ************ CISTOP MIKEY ************************************* 349 P.S. Aaron, no, the threat was not from you. (But alas, I think 350 your message may have started the whole mess. Sigh, what a bunch 351 of loonies.) 352 *************************************************************** 353 P.P.S. My thanks to those of you who have expressed your heartfelt 354 feelings. 355 ****************************************************************** 356 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 357 358 sigh... (heartfelt) 359 My apologies, Mike. I didn't see the additional complaints roused by my 360 comments, but I can certainly see how they might have come about, con- 361 sidering some of the more erratic factions out there. And my own rather 363 perverse sense of black humor. sigh.... 364 365 if you decide to go offset on the printing; i would order the set.... 366 (read "order" as "be able to afford, and order" ) 367 dl: I am agnostic; and highly religous. (in reference to one of your 368 more recent texts, you mentioned that my own "stand" as to what 369 I am was rather unclear..) 370 371 Larry: 372 It seems you have been vindicated from the heinous crime of 373 text killing. good job, eh? let's get some back bacon. 374 375 all: 376 My pending arrangment for house-sharing abruptly fell through. 377 Does anyone out there have any leads as to where I can find person(s) 378 looking for a house mate? More concisely, I NEED SOMEPLACE TO RENT. 379 380 Aaron 381 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 382 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 383 What reasons were given for complaining about Mikey's offer- 384 ing the archives? Of all the stupidest things I've ever, 385 I've never heard of someone complaining about a service 386 someone is offering when that person doesn't even have to 387 offer the service in the first place! I wouldn't complain 388 about ANYTHING, if I were you, whoever you are! Stupid... 389 stupid...stupid... 390 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 391 ######################################### 392 I SUGEEST WE ALL KEEP AN AN EYE ON THE BOARD TO SEE WHO'S MISSING, MAYBE 393 THAT WILL TELL US WHO HAD THE GALL TO THREATEN OUR BELOVED MIKEY. AS FAR 394 AS I AM CONCERNED WHOEVER IT WAS SHOULD BE PERSONA-N0N-GRATIA AROUBND HERE 395 G 396 FROM NOW ON. I KNOW IT WASN'T AARON AS HIS COMMENT OBVIOUSLY WAS IN JEST O 397 AND I FAIL TO SEE HOW ANYONE COULD HAVE TAKEN HIM SERIOUSLY: 398 399 ################C.Y.M.#################################10/31 4:22PM######### 400 401 A 402 P.S. AARON: CHECK WITH TOM MATHAE ON BIT BUCKET, HE HAD A HOUSE FOR RENT NOT 403 LONG AGO, MAY STILL HAVE SOMETHING AS I THINK HE HAS SEVERAL. 404 #################C.Y.M.################# 405 Hrothgar: 406 You hit the nail on the head about Bible literalisms. A week or so ago in 407 Time magazine there was an article concerning a new revision of the Bible to neutralize the 'sexist' references. 408 I.E. our 'Father who are in Heaven.......' I am essentially atheist, but this is STUPID. After all, for the last 1000 409 years or so, the Bible as such was acceptable and uncriticized. (comparatively). Now, because of some 'modern 410 reinterpretation' they have decided to change it. I believe that if you consider yourself a member of a religion, you should 411 accept ALL its tenets, no matter what. After all, once the typical member starts to pick and choose, the religion 412 disintegrates into what would be more accurately described as a political party. 413 Religionists can't have it both ways: Either they should accept their teachings as literally true without 414 interpretations, or accept ALL other interpretations as equally valid. 415 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 416 Need lots of money quick ?? You'll have to go a long way to beat this deal !!! Hi.. I would 417 to offer you a chance to get on the same bandwagon I did...while its still rolling. Last year while in 418 lifornia I received a rags to "riches" letter whibh claimed an opportunity to make more than $20,000 (legally) 419 m a $25 investment. Although I'm not a gambler and I was quite skeptical (it sure looked like a chain letter to me), 420 checked with the Post Office, and found that it was indeed legal and jumped right in, $25 in hand....Six weeks 421 ter, I had received $21,350 from that initial $25 investment. Now I have received my second "riches" letter 422 though the investment was $77, I didn't hesitate for a minute. But rather that using one of my business mailing 423 lists, I thought that I'd offer fellow computerists a shot at this chance. 424 ...and it doesn't cost you a penny. 425 426 427 428 ..........Remember, 429 pportunity may knock but.........it won't knock the door down......... 430 431 432 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 433 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 31 Oct 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 434 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19:39 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 435 Well, Phantom, I had to laugh at your 'then why do my feet hurt?' 436 but as for the rest of your 'rant & rave'--why, it didn't offend me in 437 the least! (Sorry to let you down; I know you're as cheerful in your 438 sword-fighting as when you clink ale glasses with a comrade.) In 439 fact, you raised several excellent issues that I will put in my 440 itinerary: your comment that few scientists "can give credence to 441 the biblical version of creation" and your cry of 'play by the rules 442 or don't play at all'. Perhaps you were thinking of the federal court 443 trial in Little Rock, Arkansas where the Seventh-Day Adventists (and 444 others) endeavored to put so-called "scientific creationism" into the 445 schools--? They were soundly trounced, and rightly so, because what 446 they wanted taught was NOT scientific and, aside from that, was not 447 supported by the Bible! But I'll come back to that later; meanwhile, 448 I wish to make clear that there is a definite distinction between their 449 "creationist" dogma and the actual Biblical description of creation. 450 Ah, the rules: I'm doing my best to follow the guidelines, both 451 of logic and of the scientific method. If you will fault me, as our 452 benevolent Hrothgar seems to, please be specific. I am not resorting 453 to scoffing at anyone's views, nor am I dismissing evolution without 454 a careful examination. It is not my intent to sweep anyone to my 455 point of view by employing emotionalism, nor do I intimidate by the 456 'tyranny of authority' method. Are there rules that I trangress upon 457 unwittingly, perchance? Clarify them, then, and we will proceed. 458 Hrothgar, your challenge regarding experiments & evolution-in- 459 action have not as yet been addressed because I want to be specific 460 in addressing what actually happened in these experiments, and am 461 lacking the facts. Would you be so kind as to direct me to the 462 literature that you found this in? Dave, consideration of mutants 463 is now inscribed on my list...but may I ask you, and Dusty as well: 464 does being comfortable with an explanation make it the truth? 465 [Whoever it was that spoke after CYM (lines 404-413), you made an 466 excellent point about why religions are so disunited! But I won't 467 get side-tracked by that issue yet.] 468 Pam and djj: your words of encouragement are like the crystalline 469 pure waters of a stream espied by a weary traveller...I knew that one 470 (two when Deb has time to come) against the entire Backwater crowd 471 would be a formidable challenge--just fielding the responses takes 472 hours!--but your words make my effort seem worth it! 473 ...I'll be back Wednesday, with Deb in tow. 474 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 475 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 2214 All Hollow's Eve [][][][] 476 477 Wanted - Female Dachsund or Dachsund Mix. (see I am not a heartless 478 conservative all the time). We will give her a loving and healthy home 479 with lots of play time. There are no 480 children to bother her, but lots of affection to shower upon her. Please 481 help us find the perfect dog. Puppy or adult is OK. Leave message here 482 . 483 484 thanks, djj 485 486 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] djj [][][][][][][][][][][][][] 487 488 D: 489 It was I who left the message addressed to Hrothgar. Unfortunately, the 490 next message wiped out my signature. 491 492 All: 493 I just got word (still unconfirmed) that the House of Representatives, in their infinite stupidity, has passed 494 a bill that would not only make it illegal for (supposedly) free American citizens to own stock in South African companies, 495 but also prevent them from owning gold in any form (except possibly for numismatic items (historical coins)). 496 Since I know there are plenty of Statists out there, here's a pop quiz for all of you out there. First, during what years 497 in the past was it illegal for Americans to own gold? Second, let's hear your opinion: (a) What business is it of the 498 government to decide if we may or may not own gold. (b) Why would the government even care (this is tricky; there IS a 499 reason!!!!) 500 I might remind the fellow systemites that it is possible for the government to commit unconstitutional acts, even if 501 the Supreme court decides they are constitutional. (Dred Scott; look this one up in an encyclopedia if you don't know....) 502 And to those of you who persist in the misguided belief that the US is the best/free-est, etc. country, what explains 503 the government's persistent desire to meddle in the lives of its citizens? 504 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon :::::::::::::::::: 505 P.S. I will later explain the reason government doesn't want us to own gold, for those of you who really don't know. 506 ****************************************** 507 WHILE SITTING HERE WATCHING THIS THING I NOTICED SOMEONE TRYING TO 'BREAK IN' 508 TO BWMS. IF IT WASN'T SO BORING, IT WOULD BE FUNNY. OH WELL, JUST THOUGHT 509 I'D PASS ALONG AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION. I GUESS SOME EITHER DON'T 510 BELIEVE OR DON'T KNOW THAT BWMS 'IS' THE SYSTEM. 511 *************** CISTOP MIKEY ***************************** 512 (I WILL ADMIT THAT THERE ARE SOME SUPERVISORY COMMANDS, BUT THEY ARE SO 513 DEEPLY HIDDEN THAT IT NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THERE WITHOUT KNOWING HOW.) 514 (BUT EVEN WHEN THERE IT ISN'T MUCH, AFTER ALL OF WHAT USE WOULD ANYONE 515 REALLY HAVE FOR A COMPRESS COMMAND? THE ONLY REASON IT IS HIDDEN IS TO 516 PREVENT IDIOTS FROM USING IT AND THEN HANGING UP IN THE MIDDLE THEREBY 517 LEAVING THE SYSTEM IN A STATE OF LIMBO. IT WOULD STILL RUN, BUT THERE 518 WOULD BE SOME CONFUSING TEXT WHERE THE COMPRESS WAS TERMINATED ON HANGUP.) 519 THE OTHER COMMAND ALLOWS ME TO GO TO 1200 BAUD FOR LOCAL OPERATION WHICH 520 WOULD SIMPLY LOCK OUT ANYONE ATTEMPTING IT. OF COURSE THE SYSTEM WOULD 521 RESTORE ITSELF ON HANGUP, SO IT WOULDN'T BE PERMINATE.) 522 ********************************************************************** 523 ****************** 524 ****************** 525 I DO EXIST 526 I AM REAL 527 I DO COMMUNICATE 528 and despite the 529 name I do care how 530 people feel 531 532 **********a pathy** 533 ****************** 534 ................................... 535 Why such excitement about creationism vs evolution? Then Bible doesn't say 536 how God made the earth, or the creature on it. It gives some of the 537 ingredients only. As to the time involved, Genesis uses "day in at leasy 538 half a dozen different ways. God works outside 'natural' laws, and can 539 bend them to his own uses, as well as ignore them. He could easily use 540 evolution to create man. We would never know it because we could never know. 541 542 now, to comment on some week old BWMS messages (been too busy to keep up) 543 544 Pam, you seem not to accept my using a person's words to describe him. Anon 545 claimed he was what he said he was. (He claimed he owed nothing to society) 546 If his own claim is true, my conclusion he is a parasite is correct; if he 547 lies he isn't a good citizen then either. Both ways, he used his words to 548 attack our system, and attempt to get others to cheat, which in itself (word 549 only) make my assesment true. In any case he offers no evidence to the co 550 contrary. Any excess over consumption he may produce is irrevelent as he 551 admits to keeping it for himself & his own uses. As to reaching conclusions 552 from incomplete data, I admit it isn't perfect, and the Aristotlian logic 553 will not accept it, but the methods of reaching valid conclusion from 554 incomplete data are well established, and now we know enough logic to show 555 know that they are valid often enough, and fail rarely enough to use. 556 All real world conclusions are made using these methods; only on paper 557 can the 'absolutely correct' Aristotlian logic work; it applies only when 558 the subject can be fully defined. For example, some years back one of our 559 ancestors saw a curve of orange, screamed a warning and raced up a tree. 560 He didn't need to see the tiger's eyes watching hungrily, or the teeth 561 ready to eat him, the sight of the tiger's back said they were there too. 562 A conclusion reached from incomplete data, yes, it could have been 563 something else, but. In this incomplete world we weigh probability, benfits 564 and costs and make a decision based on partial data. Errors are made, but 565 in the long run we do pretty well. 566 Not all of us here on BWMS are what we claim to be. I recognise this and 567 if "Anon" is the figment of some writers imagination, then my comment about 568 Anon applies only to Anon, not to Writer, whoever he may be. 569 Dom, you seemed to believe divorce is evil, by the comment " a promise once 570 made should be kept."forever. I must assume a marriage is made in love, and 571 when the thing falls apart, which some do, I can't see love requiring both 572 or either to suffer. People change. A mariage apart is no marriage, and your 573 question about is marriage only living together implies you mean it can 574 exist beyond the separation, it can't. Only the legal and very expensive 575 fiction then exists. But then who are we to enforce our ideas on what others 576 do? (As long as their acts don't infringe on us.) 577 /////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\0615 am Nov 1\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 578 } 579 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 580 BAD, I FEEL THAT WHAT YOU SAID WAS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY (NO MATTER HOW 581 VALID). I AGREE THAT THE OPINIONS ANON EXPRESSED WERE THOSE OF A PARASITE, 582 AND I PERSONALLY FIND THEM ABHORRANT. ANON DESCRIBED HIS OPINIONS AND 583 VIEWS, BUT FEW OF HIS ACTIONS. AND IF HE LIES, HE IS A MEMBER OF THE 584 HUMAN RACE (DON'T TELL ME YOU NEVER LIE, BAD. I CAN ACCEPT MUCH, BUT 585 NOT THE POSSIBILITY OF YOUR SAINTHOOD). AND THE FACT HE OFFERS NO 586 EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY DOESN'T PROVE HE IS, AND NEVER HAS. NO EVIDENCE 587 HAS APPEARED THAT PLUTO DOESN'T HAVE LIFE OF SOME KIND, BUT THAT CAN'T 588 BE TAKEN TO MEAN PLUTO DEFINITELY HAS NO LIFE. 589 ON THE SUBJECT OF REACHING CONCLUSIONS FROM INCOMPLETE DATA, I DO 590 NOT DENY IT IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY. YOUR TIGER ANALOGY IS VALID, BUT 591 ONLY PARTLY APPLICABLE TO THIS CASE. IN THAT CASE, THE POSSIBILITY OF 592 THE TIGER REPRESENTS A DANGER TO LIFE, AND AS SUCH MUST BE ACTED UPON. 593 SITUATIONS WHERE CONCLUSIONS MUST BE REACHED FROM INCOMPLETE DATA ARE 594 THOSE WHERE ACTION MUST BE TAKEN *NOW*, AND WAITING FOR MORE COMPLETE DATA 595 WOULD BE HARMFUL TO A PROPER RESOLUTION. IN THE CASE OF ANON, IT WOULD 596 HAVE BEEN JUST AS EASY TO SAY "YOUR OPINIONS ARE THOSE OF A PARASITE", 597 RATHER THAN "YOU ARE A PARASITE". WHAT BENEFITS DO YOU (OR ANYONE ELSE) 598 DERIVE FROM SUCH UNCIVIL BEHAVIOR? ANON DOESN'T REPRESENT A THREAT TO 599 YOUR LIFE, ONLY YOUR EGO. 600 SOME MIGHT FIND IT INTERESTING THAT I'M DEFENDING ANON, WHEN IT'S 601 OBVIOUS FROM PAST ENCOUNTERS THAT WE ARE OPPOSED. BUT I DON'T DEFEND ANON. 602 THOUGH I TEND TO AGREE WITH BAD'S CONCLUSION, I DON'T SEE THE NEED OF A 603 CONCLUSION. 604 605 ON THE CONCEPT OF GOD, IF YOU DEFINE HIM AS 1) OMNIPOTENT; 606 2) OMNISCIENT; AND 3) OMNIPRESENT; THEN BY DEFINITION WE CANNOT PROVE 607 HE DOESN'T EXIST. BEING ALL POWERFUL, HE COULD HAVE CREATED THE EARTH 608 IN 6 DAYS (AS IN GENESIS) WITH THE GEOLOGICAL AND FOSSIL RECORD INTACT. 609 WHY? WHO KNOWS? BEING OMNISCIENT, HE COULD HAVE GOOD REASONS THAT ARE 610 TOTALLY BEYOND OUR COMPREHENSION (I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU, 611 BUT I'M NOWHERE CLOSE TO OMNISCIENT) THE REST OF MY MESSAGE HAS BEEN ERASED!! ARRGH! 612 613 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]