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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, January 8, 1991 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic: Toolbox Programming
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
AFL Dyfet Tonight's toolbox night :)
AFA Gary J Yep :)
INF2 Is it the toolbox today?
AFL Dyfet Yes it is Inf2...In fact, I think DevScott had the first question
for tonight.
INF2 Today, the ToolBox... Tommorow, the WORLD!!!:D
DevScott I am trying to learn more about the GS and programming it by
creating a simple
DevScott paint program using pascal and am having problems with an about
dialog
DevScott box "disfiguring" the drawing window behind it. What do I need to
do
DevScott to preserve the drawing already done? GetPort/SetPort stuff?
AFL Dyfet GA Winkie....
WinkieJim Is the window behind it getting the partthe dialog covered
erased?
DevScott What was that?
DevScott The part of the window the dialog covers is filled with the
current color
DevScott selected (a different problem).
WinkieJim Is the window behind the dialog just getting erased without being
redrawn?
WinkieJim Not the background color?
DevScott Well, I'm not quite sure...
AFA Gary J Probably the background color.
WinkieJim Is it white?
DevScott The color is selected using
DevScott SetPenPat, but when drawing, the color drawn isn't what was
DevScott selected? Hard to tell.
DevScott Not always white, though.
WinkieJim Scott, you do redraw the entire window when your update routine
for that
WinkieJim window is drawn, right?
DevScott I believe so...what exactly do I do to make sure that it's done.
DevScott <---- sorry, kind of a novice here.
AFL Dyfet That's okay Scott!!
WinkieJim In your update rouine for the window you're supposed to redraw
EVERYTHING
WinkieJim that is displayed in the context region of the window.
DevScott So, do you have to set up a routine that "remembers" everything
the user
DevScott did draw?
WinkieJim Right Scott
AFL Dyfet Yes, Scott
DevScott Well, I'm still a little foggy about how to do that, but I'll do
some more
DevScott digging to see if I can figure it out.
WinkieJim Scott you could also draw everything to the window on screen AND
to an
WinkieJim off-screen window and then copy all the pixels to the on-screen
window at
WinkieJim update time.
DevScott PPToPort, or is that a little different?
WinkieJim I believe CopyPixels is what you'd want to use
DevScott Ok, I'll try it out. Thanks for the guidance!
DevScott <-- Done.
WinkieJim Good luck Scott. GA
DevScott :)
AFL Dyfet Okay, go ahead Steve....
SteveB Just wanted to thank the people who helped my figure out....
SteveB how to handle what SFP gives me. Nice guys here! :)
SteveB And, I have to be leaving, so g'night all! :)
AFL Dyfet Thanks :)
SteveB GA :)
AFL Dyfet Okay, INF2 has the next question...GA INF2...
INF2 Well, actually, not much of a "question", but I'll GA...
INF2 Well, it's only been one year, since I've got my IIGS, but I don't
understand
INF2 the ToolBox at all... Do you need stuff like ORCA/C?
INF2 Or APW?
AFL Dyfet A good place to start, actually, is a wonderful book Michael
Fisher wrote, the
AFL Dyfet Apple IIgs Technical Reference....
AFL Marty Who? :)
INF2 The "Technical Introduction to the IIGS"?
AFL Dyfet It is published by Osborn/Mcgraw Hill
INF2 Oh
AFL Dyfet It was the first IIgs programming book I started with....and still
use it for
AFL Dyfet reference from time to time....GA Dave...
Dave Lyons If you do any real toolbox work, you definitely want the real
reference manuals--the stuff
Dave Lyons in Toolbox Ref Volume 3 wasn't even conceived when Fischer's book
came out (and you want the
Dave Lyons official books anyway). ga
INF2 Well, can't I use ANY part of the ToolBox from GS/OS itself?
AFL Dyfet That is true...at some point you will want to get the IIgs toolbox
references.
AFL Dyfet GA Gary...
AFA Gary J As for languages and such, yes ORCA/C is one you could use, but
you can also
AFA Gary J access the IIGS toolbox from assembly, Pascal, or even BASIC on
the IIGS.
INF2 BASIC?
INF2 HOW?
AFA Gary J You can even experiment with toolbox calls using Nifty List CDA
:)
AFL Dyfet GA Marty....
AFA Gary J Not Applesoft BASIC, but IIGS specific basics.
AFA Gary J GA
INF2 Oh...
AFL Marty I started reading a good book on toolbox programming last
night...
AFL Marty it's called "Mastering the Apple IIGS Toolbox" by...
AFL Marty Dan Gookin and Morgan Davis.
AFL Marty I got through about 60 pages or so. It goes at a rather good rate
for me
AFL Marty (I'm the rankest of beginners)...
INF2 But you see,
INF2 I don't have ANYTHING I can use to acess the ToolBox, I think...
AFL Marty You can experiment with toolbox calls from BASIC or from the
monitor.
AFL Marty GA
AFL Dyfet Or from Nifty List :)
AFA Gary J (Or Nifty List :)
INF2 I only have AppleSoft....
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Marty Or from Nifty List :)
INF2 And what is Nifty List?
AFA Gary J (Nifty List is available in our software library. It's a CDA
written by
AFA Gary J Dave Lyons)
INF2 Oh.
AFL Dyfet GA Dave :)
AFA Gary J :)
Dave Lyons Nifty List got its name because its original purpose in life was
to disassemble ("List")
Dave Lyons assembly code with extra information displayed in the margin (the
names of toolbox calls, for
INF2 But what is it now?
Dave Lyons example). It's grown into a generally useful tool for learing
about the GS toolbox and OS, and
Dave Lyons for debugging GS programs (yours and other people's).
INF2 Does it come with Docs?
Dave Lyons Starting with version 3.0, you can make toolbox calls
interactively and write your own commands
Dave Lyons if you want. Sure, docs are included, and most of the information
is available right from Nifty
Dave Lyons List (by putting a "?" in front of the command name).
Dave Lyons ga
INF2 OK... Thanks Dave!:)
AFA Gary J BUT, I'd like to add.... it REALLY HELPS to have manuals of some
type
AFA Gary J guiding you along in making those toolcalls.
INF2 Uh-huh...
AFA Gary J :)
INF2 I'll D/L that right now.
INF2 BYE!
AFL Dyfet Okay, GSShadow has the next question, and the floor now...GA
GS...
GSShadow Ok. this should be qiuck. First, where can i find info on the
GSShadow QuickDrawII 'picture' format, the one used with the Draw Picture
command?
AFL Dyfet GA Dave
Dave Lyons Apple IIgs Technical Note #46 (this was revealed to me by page 6
of the Apple II Technical Note
Dave Lyons Index, amazingly enough).
Dave Lyons The information is provided for
Dave Lyons debugging purposes, mainly--the format may be extended in the
future, but it isn't too likely
Dave Lyons to change soon. ga
GSShadow O.k. I thought It might be in the tech notes. I have been waiting
of APDA's
GSShadow compilation of tech notes. How can I get tech notes sent to me? Is
there some
GSShadow kind of subscription?
AFA Gary J GSShadow: You can download TN#46 right here on America Online
AFL Dyfet GA Matt
Matt DTS As of the new APDAlog automagically winging its way around the
world, the APDA subscription policy
Matt DTS for TNs changes. Now you can buy a complete back set and a
one-year subscription independent of the
Matt DTS calendar year (for example, if you subscribe in September 1991 it
goes until September 1992).
Matt DTS GA
AFA Gary J (That sounds good :)
Tamira when does the new APDA cat go out Matt???
Matt DTS Dunno. I have mine already.
WinkieJim Tam, I got mine today
AFA Gary J Tamira, mine came yesterday.
Tamira sigh again.....and again :(
GSShadow THANKS. Also, for some reason my program (asm) is not getting
update events
GSShadow for my modeless dialogs. I have used taskmaster, and the is
Dialog/Dialog
GSShadow select combo but I cannot get my dialogs redrawn when they're
covered by
GSShadow windows. If it is covered by a modal dialog, everything owrks
fine! Help?
AFL Dyfet GA Dave
Dave Lyons GSShadow, the least painful way is to not use modeless dialogs,
and just
Dave Lyons use regular windows instead.
Dave Lyons The Dialog Manager should be automatically updating
Dave Lyons your modeless dialogs during DialogSelect, though--I don't know
what going wroing, unless
Dave Lyons you are expecting it to draw something *other* than your dialog
items in there. (That is, if you have
Dave Lyons a wContDefProc that you expect the system to call for that window,
you will be disappointed.)
Dave Lyons ga
WinkieJim I love it when Dave saves the painful stuff for last :)
GSShadow O.k. My problem is that I want to get input from controls without
having to
GSShadow select a window, and I was hoping to accomplish that w/ a modeless
dialog.
GSShadow I guess I can get around it.
Dave Lyons Okay, you want the user to type
Dave Lyons into, say, a Line Edit control while the window isn't in front?
GSShadow No, I want the user to be able to click on an icon while the
window isn't
GSShadow in front. (same difference)
Dave Lyons I don't see how modeless dialogs simplifies it--
Dave Lyons what's stopping you from calling FindControl and TrackControl on a
window that's not in front?
Dave Lyons (It's just that TaskMaster doesn't help you out as much there.)
GSShadow I was hoping it some magical property I could use to my advantage.
But I guess
GSShadow not, Huh?
Dave Lyons (Not that I've thought of, anyway. ga)
AFL Dyfet Okay, Nuzz, you have the floor now...
Nuzz If an App that does NOT have a resource fork wishes to open other
files RForks,
Nuzz must that app issue resource startup/down calls, and if it does
have to and
Nuzz doesn't, what are the consequences
WinkieJim Yes it must startup and shotdown the resource manager.
AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
Dave Lyons Yes, your application has to start and shut down the resource
manager--but StartUpTools and
Dave Lyons ShutDownTools take care of that for you, even if your application
has no resource fork. ga
Nuzz OK, how about Da's in the same context?
WinkieJim Yup, if they are going to make resource manager calls.
Dave Lyons In system 5.0.4 and earlier,
Dave Lyons StartUpTools and ShutDownTools must *not* be called from a DA, so
you have to do your own
Dave Lyons ResourceStartUp and ResourceShutDown calls from the DA, as shown
in GS Technote #71. ga
Nuzz OK. Done
AFL Dyfet Okay, go ahead Foreigner...
Foreigner1 Coupla quick Questions: 1. Should a LocInfo BoundsRect ever have a
v1 of -25?
Foreigner1 That's what I get with a GetLocInfo call on the samples from
ORCA/C...
AFL Dyfet GA Dave
Dave Lyons Yes, the BoundsRect of a QuickDraw II grafport that points to
video memory is the rectangle
Dave Lyons bounding the screen, in the local coordinates of the window. So
if the top line of your window's
Dave Lyons content region is on scanline 25, the boundsRect.v1 of your
window's port will be -25. ga
Dave Lyons (BTW, you can use Nifty List to quickly check on things like
this!)
AFL Dyfet :)
Foreigner1 Okay, thanks. #2- how do you do Icons, when the header file
states the length
WinkieJim Dyfet, do you think we should have Dave pay fro all his
commercials? :) :):)
Foreigner1 of them to all be one? (The QDIconRecord in QDAUX.h)?
Foreigner1 GA
AFL Dyfet :)
AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
Dave Lyons What? Most icons -don't- have length 1. How are you determining
that they do?
Dave Lyons Are you examining Finder icon FILES, or individual icons?
Coach101 Dave, I think he is referring to the struct/typedeff in the .h
file....
Foreigner1 The struct definition in the header file states, (and I quote)
Byte iconImage[1];
Foreigner1 Same with the cursor definition in Quickdraw.h
Foreigner1 GA
AFL Dyfet GA Matt
Matt DTS (I found it just before he said it) That doesn't mean the icons
are all one byte long. It's some
Matt DTS kind of C hocus-pocus to define the structure so you can access it
later. Someone who actually knows
Matt DTS C will have to explain it in detail. GA.
Dave Lyons Ah! Since icons are variable-length, you can't really write
structures for them in Pascal or C;
Dave Lyons those are just templates you can use as a starting point. If you
want to use those data structures,
Dave Lyons make a copy & make one with the height and width you need. Ditto
for QuickDraw cursors.
AFL Dyfet So you just use IconImage to reference the FIRST byte of the
image....
Foreigner1 Gotcha. One last (easy) question- Address/Phone # of APDA?
Dave Lyons 1-800-282-APDA
Foreigner1 ga. I'm done!
AFL Dyfet Okay, A2 has the next question...GA A2...
A2GS 2 short Q's.....1) Do Apple Dealers still give the system disk
upgrades?
WinkieJim A2GS, yes if they want too...Apple doesn't require them too...
WinkieJim if you have a good one they should allow you to get a copy of the
latest
WinkieJim system.
A2GS I'm currently using a 1987 ver. of AppleLink (developer ver.)
has
A2GS there been any upgrade for II users since then???????
A2GS GA
AFL Dyfet GA MAtt
Matt DTS Send me an AppleLink with your name and system configuration and
we'll talk offline.
A2GS huh?
Matt DTS Using '87 AppleLink = you have an AppleLink account.
Matt DTS Use it to send me (DEATHERAGE1) an AppleLink that contains your
name, your system configuration and
Matt DTS we'll talk about upgrades. GA.
A2GS oh...o.k......now I see....need to get more sleep :)
AFL Dyfet Okay, are there any more questions for tonight?
AFA Parik (I read somewhere that AppleLink will [soon] allow anyone online,
alaCIS/GEnie)
AFA Parik (er, I mean you don't need a Mac...you can use a IBM. still need
a acct!)
A2GS got a Q...
WinkieJim We have a question!
A2GS Is there anyway to force the Cntrl-pnl NDA to come up without
using having
A2GS to use PDM's?
A2GS GA
WinkieJim PDM's?
A2GS pull down menus
WinkieJim Oh....:)
AFL Dyfet GA Winkie
DangardAce Someone write QuickeysGS :)
WinkieJim I Edited the Control panel NDA file to have a keyboard equivalent
:)
Coach101 Cheating :)
A2GS I'd prefer NOT to do that....any other suggestions?
A2GS Dave...Matt?
WinkieJim Only way I know, until someone creates a macro program that
simulates mouse
WinkieJim movements to the event manager...
A2GS Matt...Dave?
Dave Lyons There's no built-in shortcut for opening the Control Panel NDA,
no.
WinkieJim Well, I like keyboard equivalents for NDas...I wrote the only NDA
that has
WinkieJim a keyboard equivalent for it's menu item :) :) :)
AFA Gary J You could use CTRL-OA-ESC :)
A2GS sorry won't cut it
Nuzz How do you know someone else won't use that Key combo Jim
WinkieJim Nuzz, I took a chance...the new version will have it selectable by
the user. :)
Coach101 There is the OpenNDA call that looks like it would do it if.....
Coach101 you could come up with the idNum to pass it. Does anyone know how
to "safely" find the idNum?
AFL Dyfet GA Matt
Matt DTS Keyboard equivalents for NDA menu items aren't such a good idea -
depending on the (unguaranteed)
Matt DTS search order of MenuKey, either your NDA or the application's menu
item that share key equivalents
Matt DTS will never get to use it. If it's yours, it's OK, but it's not OK
to take the applications. GA.
Coach101 Matt, can you safely run the menu manager's menu lists to find a
particular NDAs idNum and
Coach101 then call OpenNDA?
A2GS Is there any "safe" way to find out the ID assigned to the CP
Nda?
Dave Lyons Coach, it's not guaranteed, but it's reasonably safe to call
GetMItemName on 1, 2, 3... until you
Dave Lyons find the DA you're looking for. It'll work.
Dave Lyons You may confuse some applications that way, though--it would be
better to make
Dave Lyons the application think there was a mouse-down in the menu bar, and
then make MenuSelect return that
Dave Lyons ID. This way if the app does some housekeeping when it opens an
NDA itself, it will still get
Dave Lyons to do it (not all apps let TaskMaster open DAs for them).
Coach101 So, then one could cause any NDA to come up by looping on
GetMItenName till they find the one
Coach101 they wish to start and then do an OpenNDA with the resulting
idNum? We solved ?'s problem!
A2GS how do we check whether we got the id for the CP?
Coach101 A2, remember Dave's caveats about confusing an applicatoin (but if
its your application, where
Coach101 is the confusion), the Get... call will give you the menu name of
the NDA (I think) so you just go
Coach101 on looking until you hit the end (some sort of error return, I
suppose) or get an equality on the
Coach101 name you are looking for.
Coach101 ga
AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have anything else for tonight>
A2GS thanx...will study the matter further