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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, January 1, 1991 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic: Programming in the 90's - Open Discussion
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
DevScott Well, I'm not yet very experienced at GS programming yet and I'm
having a
DevScott problem with setting up Pop Menu controls in a window
DevScott that are already predefined in a resource. (Using TML II) Any
ideas where
DevScott I can get good information?
DevScott <---- Having trouble with GS Toolbox Vol 3
AFA Gary J Are you looking for a specific answer on something, or just help
in general on
AFA Gary J those particular topics?
DevScott General help now. I can do it if I don't pre-define the resource
but
DevScott I don't know where to begin once the resource is defined.
AFA Gary J Matt, just to fill you in on the problem, DevScott is having
problems setting
AFA Gary J up Pop up menu controls in a window predefined in a resource.
AFA Gary J He's using TML II.
Matt DTS It's not too incredibly difficult. Fidgeter includes a pop-up
menu control in a window resource.
DevScott What's Fidgeter?
Matt DTS A sample program I wrote that appeared in the Sept. 1989 issue of
Call -A.P.P.L.E. magazine.
DevScott I think I may happen to have that magazine...I'll check it out.
AFA Gary J Thanks for the help, Matt.
DevScott Thanks all...
FeinDavid Next Q?
FeinDavid We ready for the next topic? I have one...
AFL Dyfet Go ahead David :)
Matt DTS (You might not have noticed, but David has a question. :)
AFA Gary J :)
FeinDavid I am writing two CDAs, and they are both specifically for the ROM
3 GS. Right
FeinDavid now, I want to have the CDA check the machine ROM version, and if
the rom is
FeinDavid not greater than 3, I would like to remove the CDA. I have all of
the code
FeinDavid figured out, except what I would actually have to do to make them
disappear.
FeinDavid Is it possible for a CDA to remove itself, and is there a simple
way
FeinDavid of having a CDA remove like the "undocumented" way of having a PIF
remove, and
FeinDavid lastly, is this the best idea, or can anyone think of a better
one?
Matt DTS You'd best wait for mail from Dave Lyons on that topic. The main
problem is that RemoveCDA doesn't
Matt DTS remove the CDAs from memory. One way to do it is to write a
permanent init that calls InstallCDA and
Matt DTS use the permanent init mechanism to not be permanent if the ROM
version isn't 03 or later, but
Matt DTS that doesn't work for private INITs when you boot over AppleShare.
(And it's not "undocumented", it's
Matt DTS in the file type note for file type $B6).
Matt DTS The first question that needs to be asked is "What kind of CDA
doesn't work right on ROM 01?"
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet :)
FeinDavid Hummm..... Who cares about appleshare? (I will IM the answer to
your q.)
AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any other questions for tonight??
FeinDavid Anyone have any other ideas, or suggestions for what I should do
if I find a
FeinDavid ROM 1 GS? Someone suggested that I just bring up a screen that
says "Only ROM3"
Matt DTS People who have AppleShare care about AppleShare! What kind of
boneheaded question is that?
Matt DTS Just because you don't have it means you feel justified in
crashing the machines of people who do?
Matt DTS Wrong answer.
AFA Gary J :)
FeinDavid Relax Matt... I said that in jest....
Matt DTS Oh, in that case, so did I. :)
Matt DTS On a ROM 01 machine you can call the entry point FF/1800, I think)
to install the CDAs and exit. Or
Matt DTS simply do nothing. You don't have to provide a digitized
recording of James Earl Jones saying "You
Matt DTS must have a ROM 03 Apple IIgs Personal Computer built after August
1989 to use this Classic Desk
Matt DTS Accessory."
FeinDavid 8)
AFL Dyfet GA Scott...
AFL Scott I've been looking around and I can't seem to find any information
on Message Center message types.
AFL Scott Where is the best place to look for that information?
Matt DTS Scott:
Matt DTS There are only a handful of publicly-documented Message Types, and
they're all in the various
Matt DTS Toolbox Reference Manuals. Other message numbers you might find
are either 3rd-party or Apple
Matt DTS private messages, which aren't documented because you shouldn't go
fiddling with them.
AFL Scott Hmmm... The one I was most interested in what Message type 1...
but I couldn't find anything on that
AFL Scott message type... The reason I was looking for it was to set my
auxtype bits reliably.
Matt DTS For example, in my system right now, I have two messages. One is
MessageByName ("DAL Systems: Nifty
Matt DTS List Service" and the other is a private message (it actually
contains the handle to FastFont for
Matt DTS QD's usage).
Matt DTS One is public, the other isn't. That's why it's not documented.
Matt DTS Message Type 1 is the "files" message and is pretty clearly
documented under "MessageCenter" in Toolbo
Matt DTS Reference Volume 2.
AFL Scott I'll look again. Thanks, Matt.
Matt DTS (the only ambiguity is that all the strings are actually entire
pathnames, which isn't clear.)
AFL Scott Thanks. :) Done.
AFL Marty I have a suggestion/question for FeinDavid...
AFL Marty Why go through all that trouble with PIFs? Why not allow your
CDA...
AFL Marty to be installed on either GS and just jump to a routine that
AFL Marty exits with a message about ROM versions if it's installed on the
AFL Marty wrong one?
AFL Marty (If it's selected, that is.)
FeinDavid I like to be neat, and on the edge of technology? 8) I don't
know.. I could,
FeinDavid or I could just change the CDA title to "NOT A ROM 3!" and begin
it with a RTL.
Matt DTS (Or even just change the title to "Do Nothing" if you're on a ROM
01 machine. :)
AFL Marty Soundmaster does this sort of thing if you try to access it
AFL Marty without AOL active.
FeinDavid I like that idea.
AFL Dyfet Or it can say "buy me a new machine" :)
AFA Gary J :)
FeinDavid Or possibly do a fake reboot with ROM 3 on the bottom of the
screen? he he 8)
FeinDavid then wait 20 seconds, and return to the cda menu.
AFA Gary J That would go over real well :)
AFL Marty (or say something about formatting the AppleShare volume :)
AFA Gary J LOL!
Matt DTS Next...?
AFL Dyfet I think we can move on to the next question :)...GA
Unpleasant...
Unpleasant I'm writing a two player game in assembly language and I'd like to
make it possible to play it over
Unpleasant the modem. Unfortunately, I have zip experience with modem
Unpleasant programming and I'd like the names of some good
Unpleasant reference manuals that would get me started.
Unpleasant I'd like to make it available for both the GS Modem port and
internal modems.
Unpleasant Anyone have any recommendations?
AFL Dyfet Well, if your willing to work in a very general sense with the
existing device
AFL Dyfet drivers, and are not too worried about carrier detect or 8 bit
binary data
AFL Dyfet streams, it can be done....
AFL Dyfet In that case you would basically send and receive text strings
through the
AFL Dyfet appropriate GS/OS device driver, send ATDT xxx to dial, read the
result code
AFL Dyfet line, and then use some kind of simple line oriented protocol for
sending
AFL Dyfet messages back and forth between the machines....
AFL Dyfet You could program something like that fairly easily in any high
level language.
Unpleasant Where can I find out how to address the device drivers?
Matt DTS "GS/OS Reference", from Addison-Wesley.
Unpleasant Is there a modem device driver that you address in a generic
manner?
AFL Dyfet The Firmware reference manual can tell you about control sequences
you can
AFL Dyfet send to the port to set baud rate/etc....
AFL Dyfet I don't know if those work through the GS/OS genorated device
off-hand, though.
Matt DTS They do, but you MUST first check the characteristics to be sure
it's a generated driver.
Unpleasant Ok, thanks, I'll check those out and see if they help.
Unpleasant done
AFL Dyfet GA A2...
A2GS I'm kind of confused about a few things related to
Driver...specifically
A2GS Printer Drivers.....in the System.Disk Drivers folder there is a
file called
A2GS "Printer" and another file which is called "Imagewriter"....is the
"Printer"
A2GS file the generic device driver for printers handling Device calls
(ex. DWrite,
A2GS DRead) and the Imagewriter handles specific printing options
related to the
A2GS Imagewriter like for printing graphics, etc....???
A2GS GA
Matt DTS "ImageWriter" is the printer driver, "Printer" is the port driver.
To print to an ImageWriter through
Matt DTS the printer port, in the DirectConnect CDev you select both
"ImageWriter" and "Printer".
Matt DTS Neither is a GS/OS driver (DRead, DWrite, etc.). You need to read
the File Type Note for file type
Matt DTS $BB (drivers) to get a handle on the various (four or five)
different kinds of drivers in that folder.
Matt DTS (GA)
A2GS But they have a filetype of $BB....so they are drivers....how are
they setup
A2GS then....do they contain DIB's, etc...?
A2GS GA
Matt DTS They have different auxiliary types. You need to read the file
type note for file type $BB to get
Matt DTS a handle on the various different kinds of drivers in that folder.
(GA)
A2GS ok....will look into it....thanx
A2GS done
AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Speedlimit :)
SPEEDLIMIT Has anyone noticed that 5.04 cause the old INTRUPTS problem online
here again
SPEEDLIMIT I thought I saw this happen last week... but... last night when
I
SPEEDLIMIT was donwloading it was the same old same old... wondering if this
was
SPEEDLIMIT happening to others with the new System disk
SPEEDLIMIT GA
AFL Dyfet GA Matt
Matt DTS This part of the system disk was NOT CHANGED between 5.0.3 and
5.0.4. It should behave the same
Matt DTS way under both (which is, it puts up a dialog saying "something
may be wrong", and pressing <CR>
Matt DTS returns you to where you were).
Matt DTS (GA)
SPEEDLIMIT I would have tholught so also... until I saw it happening to me...
:/
Matt DTS It could be a problem with the America Online software beyond what
we've previously seen.
SPEEDLIMIT Wait... Wait... I thought that the Sign thingee was done away with
on
SPEEDLIMIT 5.03... I know that I didn't have the problem with 5.03... on the
SPEEDLIMIT downloads that is
Matt DTS I'm telling you that Apple did not change that behavior between
5.0.3 and 5.0.4.
Matt DTS The release notes seem to indicate the dialog is supposed to be
gone, but that was not my belief.
Matt DTS I thought it put up an alert that said something may be wrong, but
<CR> gets you out of it.
Matt DTS That's in the core of GS/OS itself, and this did not change for
5.0.4. I suggest you check out your
Matt DTS installation and make sure something cosmically unexplained hasn't
happened to you.
SPEEDLIMIT Matt... yes that is they way it works... hitting the Return Key...
but I
SPEEDLIMIT didn't have the problem with 5.03... that is I didn't have to hit
the Return
SPEEDLIMIT key... now I'm stuck by the computer when I download again... What
a Drag :(
Matt DTS Then you just didn't hit the 65536 unclaimed interrupts level.
(It usually only happens while
Matt DTS downloading, I understand). It did NOT change. Really.
Matt DTS (GA)
SPEEDLIMIT Oaty... I will check it... thanks Matt
SPEEDLIMIT Done
AFL Dyfet Okay, GA PeacesSign
PeaceSign Does anyone know of an error code listing for the GS self-test?
FeinDavid In one of the latest tech notes there is a complete list of the
error codes.
Matt DTS Apple IIgs Technical Note #95, "ROM Diagnostic Errors".
FeinDavid Thanx matt.
PeaceSign This is in the d/l library?
PeaceSign d/l = download
AFA Gary J Yes
FeinDavid should be under "FROM APPLE"
AFA Gary J (It is in the "From Apple" library)
FeinDavid too late gary.
FeinDavid he he
AFA Gary J In the Apple IIGS section :)
AFL Dyfet :)
AFA Gary J (Fumble fingers here :)
PeaceSign So I can look up the BAD SYSTEM error code in this file. right?
AFA Gary J Do you know the error number? (I have the note sitting in front
of me)
AFA Gary J I'll tell you if it's there :)
PeaceSign Yes...
PeaceSign 0200 FF00
PeaceSign That was the 1st one.
PeaceSign 0C00 0001 was the other one we got.
AFA Gary J Well, it's there :) The error codes are organized in such a
way that you
AFA Gary J piece them together by the bytes of the error code number.
Matt DTS 0200FF00 = RAM failure in bank zero.
Matt DTS 0C000001 = Sound RAM data error
PeaceSign Thanks all! I'm done. Hope everyone had a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
AFL Dyfet GA Marty....
AFL Marty Speaking of technotes...
AFL Marty When do you think the November issues will be available?
AFL Marty (GA)
AFA Gary J Good question :)
AFA Gary J (I was going to ask the same one.)
Matt DTS The November TNs were mailed to partners and associates in
November. The text file versions are
Matt DTS "freebies" done by DTS people on their own time as a favor to
online services. No one's had time yet.
AFA Gary J That's what I thought :)
FeinDavid Has anyone received any programming information on the Zip GSX?
Zip promised
FeinDavid me some, and they never sent them to me. I know other people are
waiting too,
FeinDavid like Glen Bredon... He wants to implement some speed changes into
ProSEL-16.
FeinDavid ga.
FeinDavid I guess no one.
FeinDavid ga.
AFA Gary J Have you tried contacting Zip?
AFA Gary J (lately)
FeinDavid Yes. The Zipper said he would send some out to me, and didn't
seem to do so.
FeinDavid I contact him online. Maybe that is the mistake.
FeinDavid Thank you for all of your wonderful support Matt!
FeinDavid Any other questions anyone?
Matt DTS <blush>
FeinDavid Yeah.... now that I think of it.
FeinDavid Is it safe to remove an ABD device on the IIgs with the power on?
I have alway
FeinDavid s been doing that, and I have had a few people tell me it is
dangerous. I don't
FeinDavid think so, but what the hey.
FeinDavid like my turbomouse...
AFA Gary J I've had my machine lock up on me in doing that by accident.
Matt DTS It is definitely dangerous on the Mac, but I don't know for sure
on the IIgs.
AFA Gary J But, of course, the device I accidently removed was my keyboard
:)
Matt DTS There is power trickling through the ADB bus, so you're taking
your chances. <GA>
FeinDavid Should I worry?
AFA Gary J Yes. You have reason to worry :)
FeinDavid ok. I'll worry.
AFA Gary J (Loose some sleep on that one :)
FeinDavid Yeah... right...
FeinDavid BTW Matt, did you know that the little Finder Easter Egg is not in
the
FeinDavid french version of 5.0.2 finder?
FeinDavid basically Finder version F-1 1.3.
FeinDavid I recently ran the french 5.0.2 just for the fun of it...
Strange..
AFL Dyfet How so David?
FeinDavid Do you know about the "About the system..." easter egg in the
finder?
FeinDavid Well, if you press I think it is Shift and Option while you pull
down the
FeinDavid apple menu, ABOUT THE SYSTEM should show up instead of ABOUT THE
FINDER.
FeinDavid That will list all of the names of everyone who worked on 5.0+,
and if you
FeinDavid click on the name "Apple II" at the top of the dialog box, (rom 3
only),
Matt DTS (It lists the people in the engineering group at the time 5.0 was
released.)
FeinDavid the computer will play a digitized sound of people yelling "APPLE
II!".
FeinDavid But it is not in the French version of the finder. Yet the French
"The Guide"
FeinDavid specifically tells everyone about this easter egg. Strange.....
BCS Frank Wondered what all that extra ROM was for. :)
FeinDavid Naw, the sound is only about 5K long I believe... I removed it a
while ago.
BCS Frank Is it in 5.0.4?
Spottysoft Would think 5.0.4 does Frank.... it's still the same Finder (v1.3
??)
FeinDavid 5.0.4 still does. it is the same finder.
Spottysoft Andy Nicholas hasn't had enough time to digest all that source
code yet :)
AFA Gary J That is strange.
AFL Scott Is the reason newly assigned aux types didn't have their
description in FType.Aux because the software
AFL Scott (system software that is) was signed off prior to Applefest?
Matt DTS The File Type Descriptors for 5.0.3 were frozen in early June.
They did not change for 5.0.4.
Matt DTS That's why you can supply your own FTDs and they take precedence
over the system's. <GA>
AFL Scott So, I can ship an Ftype file of my own, then? I was under the
impression that doing so wasn't a
AFL Scott good thing?
Matt DTS Did you actually read the FTD File Type note ($42)? It clearly
states shipping your own is encouraged
Matt DTS since Apple can't update the system software all that often.
AFL Scott I don't have $42... maybe that's why I didn't read it. :(
AFL Scott I'll download it and read it. I already have an FType file ready
to go so I'm covered... Thanks,
AFL Scott Mr. Fein! Thanks for clearing that up, Matt.
FeinDavid Where's you get that? he he he
AFA Gary J Wait, if the FTD file takes precidence over the systems, how can
multiple
AFA Gary J releases of the file from different vendors be supported? (Maybe
I don't
AFA Gary J understand exactly how this works :)
Matt DTS You don't. :)
Matt DTS Vendors should release FTDs that contain only their file type
descriptions. For example,
Matt DTS FType.Hypercard contains exactly one entry - $55/$0001 -
"Hypercard Stack". That then takes
Matt DTS precedence over the generic $55 entry in FType.Main - "Hypermedia
document"
Matt DTS <GA>
AFA Gary J Oh! (I thought there could be only one "FType.Main" and a
"FType.Aux" and
AFA Gary J that's all. (That explains it :) Thanks.
Matt DTS The file names are totally irrelevant. Read the note.
AFA Gary J Ok :)
FeinDavid For some strange reason, using Disk Access, and the
Ftype.Hypercard, the scan
FeinDavid through the filetypes seems to slow down to half speed. and is
terribly slow.
FeinDavid I haven't check to see if the finder is also so slow... But I did
track it
FeinDavid down to only happening with a Ftype with only one entry.
Matt DTS It could be a bug in the way Steve wrote the FTD searching code.
It doesn't slow down the Finder
Matt DTS in any noticeable way. (Of course, I wrote that code, so
naturally it's perfect. :)
FeinDavid Gosh... what an ego! 8)
FeinDavid I'll check with steve.