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~calgacus

Yeah the book I talk about here makes the case that for the vast majority of human history our social arrangements did not have things like coercive penal apparatus and that is largely an invention of recent vintage that happened, but isn't even necessary for "civilization" as we conventionally understand it and is decidedly *not* connected with the rise of agriculture and sedentary life, contrary to how we've been taught in broad strokes. If you like thinking about this kind of stuff at all you'll really enjoy the book, since it's concerned with exactly this argument we're having here and I think convincingly argues for the point I'm making here.

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~inquiry wrote (thread):

> Yeah the book I talk about here makes the case that
> for the vast majority of human history our social
> arrangements did not have things like coercive penal
> apparatus and that is largely an invention of recent
> vintage that happened, but isn't even necessary for
> "civilization" as we conventionally understand it
> and is decidedly *not* connected with the rise of
> agriculture and sedentary life, contrary to how
> we've been taught in broad strokes.

I'll take it on faith for now, because I definitely *want* to believe.

But given said case(s) being convincingly made *in a book*, how does believing/knowing such lead to meaningful change *in a society*?

Isn't a certain critical mass of believers-in/knows-of such necessary for any hope of a return to a civilization not predicated on "coercive penal apparat[i]"?

If so, what do you think it would it take to garner/accumulate such mass?

For example, I occasionally hear of instances of backing off the policing aspect of The Coercive Thang, but the results seem closer to chaos/mayhem than a more enlightened civilization. I suspect it's one thing for enlightened elders to teach children more enlightened ways/paths, but another when the raw materials are arguably massively fucked-up adults.