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LIST FILE ON MARGIN IS 83 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 629 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ************************* REMOVED: 22 NOV 83 ************************ 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 25 *****************************************************************: 26 LUKE: FIRST, LET ME PRECEED THIS WITH A NUMBER OF DISCLAIMERS. 27 ONE I AM NOT PRO NUCULAR. TWO IF THERE WAS ANY WAY THAT DISARMAMENT COULD 28 BE REASONABLY ACHIEVED I WOULD BE ALL FOR IT. THREE, I DO NOT BELEIVE 29 THAT A NUCULAR WAR IS WINABLE BY ANYONE. (BUT THEN, I DON'T BELEIVE THAT 30 ANYONE WINS AT ANY KIND OF WAR, BUT THATS ANOTHER STORY.) FOUR, I AM NOT 31 SAYING THAT THERE WON'T BE SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE OR MASSIVE LOSS OF LIVES, NOR 32 THAT IT WON'T HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON THE ENVIORNMENT. THESE ARE ALL 33 FACTORS THAT HAVE ENORMOUS PROBIBILITY OF HAPPENING. WHAT I AM SAYING IS 34 THAT THE POPULARIZED VERSION THAT IS SPEWED FORTH BY CARL SAGAN AND OTHERS 35 IS SOMEWHAT EXAGERATED. THE EARTH WILL NOT BE TURNED INTO A MOLTEN CINDER 36 FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. THERE WILL BE SURVIVORS. MANY PLACES ON THE EARTH 37 WILL BE RELATIVLY UNTOUCHED. AN EMP PULSE WILL NOT WIPEOUT EVERY PEICE OF 38 ELECTRONIC GEAR IN THE WORLD. THE VERSION THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING SPEWED 39 ABOUT THAT (EMP PULSE) IS GROSSLY MISS STATED. MUCH EQUIPMENT IS CURRENTLY 40 PROTECTED SUFFICENTLY TO SURVIVE THAT SORT OF THING. AS I INDICATED BEFORE, 41 THE RADIATION LEVEL STRENGTH AND LONGEVITY AND PRESISTANCE IS HIGHLY 42 OVERSTATED. YES, CERTAIN ELEMENTS DO LAST FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, BUT WHAT 43 THEY DON'T TELL YOU IS THAT IT IS A VERY SMALL AMOUNT THAT IS GENERATED, 44 THE WORLD WILL NOT BE FILLED WITH IT. THE ACTIVE RADIATION THAT DOES ALL 45 THE DAMAGE AND NASTINESS WE HEAR ABOUT ONLY STICKS AROUND FOR A VERY SHORT 46 TIME (MEASURED IN DAYS TO YEARS NOT TENS OR HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF YEARS) 47 THE BOMBS YOU HEAR ABOUT ARE NOT POINTED AT EVERY SQUARE INCH OF LAND THERE 48 IS, THERE SIMPLY ARE NOT THAT MANY. THEY ARE TARGETED TO SPECIFIC POINTS 49 THERE IS NOT MUCH POINT IN DESTROYING NON-MILITARY TARGETS. (BY THE WAY, 50 PORTLAND IS A MILITARY TARGET SIGH...) ANOTHER THING THEY DON'T TELL YOU 51 IS THAT 25% TO 50% OF THE BOMBS WON'T EXPLODE FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER. 52 (BIG DEAL, I KNOW, BUT IT IS NICE TO KNOW THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, AND IT 53 DOES MAKE ME WONDER WHEN THEY TRY TO HIDE THINGS LIKE THAT.) AS FAR AS 54 THINGS LIKE THE POLES ALL MELTING ECT.. IT IS PURE SPECULATION, THE 55 'FACTS' I'VE SEEN TO SUPPORT SUCH THINGS ARE USUALLY STRETCHED SO FAR OUT 56 OF SHAPE AS TO BE ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLE. I DO NOT SUPPORT THOSE WHO 57 STRETCH THE TRUTH TO JUSTIFY THEIR VIEWS BE IT PRO OR CON. I HAVE NO DESIRE 58 TO SEE IF A NUCULAR WAR IS SURVIVABLE, BUT NEITHER DO I BELEIVE THAT IT 59 WILL TOTALY DESTROY THE WORLD. WE WILL SURVIVE, BUT AT WHAT COST I DRED 60 TO THINK ABOUT. 61 ************ CISTOP MIKEY ********** 16 NOV 83 ******** 9:30PM ************* 62 HROTHGAR: RE ORIENTAL FOOD. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, I HAVE TRYED SEVERAL 63 THINGS, AND I DON'T THINK IT IS THE MSG. I HAVE FINALLY HAD TO JUST GIVE 64 UP EATING ETHNIC FOOD OF ORIENTAL PERSUATION. THE LAST TIME IT HAPPENED 65 I WAS EATING A DELICOUS BREADED SALMON STEAK. I CAN'T STAND IT! ARRGGHHH! 66 *******************************************************************: 67 Chuck: any more on the modem bit? The last price/chip I dug up was the 68 TI modem chip at $25 in qty one $17 qty 25. 69 ********************************************************************** 70 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 71 72 Pam: 73 1) i would be continously solicting them (on BWMS, CBBS, BBBBBS, PMS, BEE, 74 etc.); and at $.75, I think many users would sign on for the hell of it. Yet 75 I would not go into the wholesale "any/every one" philosophy of many past& 76 present BBs. 77 2) to maintain you "anonymity"; simply send me 3 quarters every month in 78 an envelope with your IUD as the return address. (ps. on my system; you can 79 "sign" ANY name to text you leave, it isn't "auto-signed" , like on the 80 other BBs (excluding BWMS), yet there will be a (hidden) field associated 81 with any text, so that only the originator can edit/abolish it) i dont need 82 to know your address, ph#, etc; because if someone contacts me with "hi! i'm 83 Pam! i want a UID", i would give them one. Watching their text, if it looks 84 like it is PAM, and i get the 3 quarters a month from someone with PAM's UID 85 as the return address, fine. If it dosnt look like you, i would leave a note 86 on the BWMS saying that someone had attempted to establish a UID in your 87 name. (perhaps that would goad you into signing up!)..........the only ID 88 that i would have on ANY users would be 89 1) his other-system "handle", that he signed up under 90 2) his (my system) UID/password set 91 3) the fact that i get 3 quarters a month from someone claiming to be "1" 92 of above... 93 94 ALL: seriously now. please leave a party vote in the format of: 95 96 vote for Frodo, the furry 97 days: nov 13,12,29,27,29 dec 3,4,6,7 98 places: xxx bar and grill, hobiteria, wendy's 99 100 list both dates and places IN ORDER OF PREFERNCE 101 102 103 dropped bit: where did you go? CRC error? 104 Aaron 105 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 106 ....................................................................... 107 tHE Dropped bit was temporairly masked out. Now where were we? Regarding 108 last message about parties, Any day or place is fine, except Dec. 3rd. 109 That is the day of the BBBS pizza party, and 1 a day is enough. Also(some 110 any!), I would rather is NOT be pizza, since every party up to now has 111 been pizza, but if it is I wouldn't stay away, I would just prefer a change 112 of pace. Aaron, sounds like you have some really good ideas for a BBS. Have 113 you thought much about the logistics of money collection. May I suggest 114 you raise your price to $1 per member. Even if the yearly amount comes 115 out the same(by skipping a month or two), sending quarters in the mail 116 is a hassle, and no one is going to write a check for 75 cents. It is a 117 heck of alot easier to stick a dollar bill in an envelope than it is to 118 fiddle with change. 119 To Luke (and Jody). (sorry aaron) but I don't mind your messages one bit( 120 no pun intended). Like others have said, it is refreshing to see such 121 enthusiasm in people. I wish the people I worked with were half as alive 122 as you and some of the others who use this system. Also, Luke has started 123 (or is continuing) a subject that I really think is worthy of discussion. 124 Remember the battle cry of the ultra conservatives : 'BETTER DEAN THEN 125 RED!'. 126 To Mikey. What's this about only half the bombs exploding? I have never 127 heard of this(although I do believe in a percentage of failure, but 50%!) 128 Also, what are the chances that all bombs heading our way will be members 129 of the 50% group?!? Pretty high no doubt! 130 ~}~............The dropped Bit......................................... 131 132 TDB: I DID NOT SAY THAT 50% WOULD FAIL, I SAID THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBILTY 133 THAT UP TO 50% COULD FAIL. AS TO KNOWING WHICH WILL FAIL AND WHICH WON'T, 134 I'M AFRAID THAT IS UNKNOWABLE. AS TO WHY, THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF REASONS. 135 EVERYTHING FROM LAUNCH FAILURE TO ELECTRONICS CONTROL FAILURE TO A JUST 136 PLAIN DUD. AND OF COURSE NO ONE KNOWS HOW MANY WILL GO OFF COURSE. OR WILL 137 BE SHOT DOWN BY ANTI-MISILES, ECT. 138 ******************************* CISTOP MIKEY **************************** 139 140 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 141 142 MIKEY, ACTUALLY, THE CURRENT "NUCLEAR WINTER" HYPOTHESIS SAYS NOTHING 143 ABOUT TURNING THE WORLD INTO A MOLTEN CINDER OR MELTING THE POLAR ICE 144 CAPS. WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT THE AMOUNT OF PARTICULATE MATTER PLACED INTO 145 THE ATMOSPHERE FROM GROUND BURSTS WOULD PREVENT A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF 146 LIGHT FROM REACHING THE SURFACE, REDUCING THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE TO 147 BELOW 0 DEGREES F. (DARN, NO SUBSCRIPTS!) FOR MANY WEEKS, AND DESTROYING 148 THE OZONE LAYER. AFTER THE PARTICULATE MATTER SETTLED OUT, THE LACK OF 149 OZONE IN THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE WOULD ALLOW ULTRAVIOLET TO PENETRATE UN- 150 FILTERED TO THE SURFACE. THE LACK OF LIGHT AND LOW TEMPERATURES AS A 151 RESULT IN THE FIRST PHASE WOULD NEARLY ELIMINATE PLANT LIFE (ON LAND 152 ANYWAY), AND THE HEAVY RADIATION IN THE SECOND PHASE WOULD FINISH IT OFF. 153 THE HYPOTHESIS COVERS MANY OTHER THINGS (WHICH I WON'T WASTE SPACE ON 154 HERE), AND I REMAIN UNCONVINCED. 155 156 BUT I GOT A REAL CHILL WHEN I HEARD DR. EDWARD TELLER, THE BIGGEST SUP- 157 PORTER OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS I'VE EVER HEARD SPEAK, SAY THAT HE COULDN'T 158 ARGUE WITH THE FIGURES OR CONCLUSIONS, THOUGH HE THOUGHT THEM PREMATURE. 159 160 THANKS, MIKEY, SOMETIMES I HAVE FLASHES OF INFERIORITY. NICE TO 161 KNOW I'M WELCOME. 162 163 ANYBODY HAVE A SPARE PLANET WE CAN EXPERIMENT ON TO FIND OUT IF THE 164 "NUCLEAR WINTER" HYPOTHESIS CAN BECOME A THEORY? 165 166 AARON, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A VIABLE CONCEPT FOR A BBS. KEEP ME 167 NOTIFIED. DO YOU PLAN ON MAKING IT A CP/M TYPE SYSTEM? MORE DETAILS, 168 PLEASE!! 169 170 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM+[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 171 172 PAM: SORRY, THAT LAST RAVE WAS A BIT MUDDLED. AFTER REREADING IT EVEN I 173 HAVE PROBLEMS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT JUST WHAT I WAS GETTING AT! BASICLY, 174 WHAT I WAS DEBUNKING WAS THE WORLD TURNED INTO A TORCH BIT THAT LUKE 175 WAS SPEAKING OF. THIS ONE STILL GETS A LOT OF PRESS. BUT AS FAR AS GOOD 176 OLD DR. SAGAN AND HIS SCIENCE MODIFIED FOR MASS CONSUMPTION GOES (READ 177 SENSATIONALISM) I AM NOT OVERLY EXCITED WITH THE NUCLEAR WINTER THING 178 EITHER MAINLY BECAUSE IT IS LARGLY CONJECTURE BASED ON INSUFFICIENT 179 DATA TO BE ABLE TO CONCLUSIVLY COME TO THAT EXTREME A CONCLUSION. 180 YES, ADDITIONAL PARTICULATE MATTER IN THE AIR WILL CAUSE COOLER WEATHER. 181 BUT THE EXACT EFFECT OF QTY TO TEMP IS NOT TRULY KNOWN YET, AS WELL AS 182 KNOWING HOW MUCH WILL BE KICKED UP. ALSO THE EFFECT TO THE UPPER 183 ATTMOSPHERE IS ALSO LARGLY CONJECTURE BASED ON INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR 184 THAT TYPE OF CONCLUSION. MOST INFORMATION THEY ARE WORKING WITH IS 185 FROM OBSERVATIONS OF EXISTING ACTIVITIES BOTH BY MAN AND NATURE. THEY 186 THEN 'SCALE' THIS UP TO WHAT THEY THINK WILL BE GOING ON FOR THEIR 187 PARTICULAR EVENT. HOWEVER NATURE SELDOM SCALES UP IN A NICE NEAT FASHION, 188 USUALY SOMETHING ELSE COMES INTO PLAY ALONG THE WAY TO THROW A RINGER 189 IN THE WORKS. AND OF COURSE THERE IS ALWAYS THE QUESTION OF HOW MUCH 190 MATTER REALLY WILL BE DISPERSED AND HOW IT WILL FALL OUT AND WHAT THE 191 RADIATION PATTERNS WILL BE. THESE ARE ALL UP FOR PLAYING WITH DEPENDING 192 ON WHAT SIDE OF THE FENCE YOU ARE SITING ON. AS FAR AS ARGUING WITH 193 THE FIGURES, GIVEN THE BASE THEY WERE DERIVED FROM, NO EVEN I CAN'T 194 ARGUE WITH THEM, HOWEVER WHAT I DO MISTRUST IS THE BASE FROM WHICH THEY 195 WERE DERIVED. 196 BUT AGAIN, I MUST EMPHISIZE THAT I AM NOT SAYING THAT EVERY THING IS 197 GOING TO BE ROSY. FAR FROM IT! IT WOULD BE CATACLISMIC! I SIMPLY DISAGREE 198 WITH THE WORST CASE SENERIO THAT THE SCIENTISTS PRESENT AS BEING REASONABLE. 199 GIVEN A FEW MORE YEARS I THINK THAT A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE 200 DIISTRIBUTION PATTERNS OF THOSE THINGS WILL BE BETTER UNDERSTOOD AS THEY 201 EXPLORE THE ACTIONS OF VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS IN THAT ASPECT, BUT STILL 202 AS I INDICATED BEFORE, WE DON'T REALY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE 203 LEVELS ARE RADICALLY BOOSTED, BUT I DOUBT IMMENSLY THAT IT WILL OCCUR 204 IN THE LINEAR FASHION THAT SO MANY SCIENTISTS LIKE TO USE. MAYBE WE CAN 205 BORROW MARS FOR SOME TESTS, NO ONE SEEMS TO BE USEING IT AT THE CURRENT 206 TIME. 207 ************ CISTOP MIKEY ********* 1:30AM ******* 17 NOV 83 ************** 208 REMEMBER LINEAR BOOST OF LEVELS IS THE SAME SCIENTIFIC METHODE THAT BROUGHT 209 YOU THE DETERMINATION THAT MOTHERS MILK CAUSES CANCER. 210 ****************************************************************************** 211 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 212 213 my vote: 214 good days: NOV 20,21 DEC 04,10,11,17,18,etc.. 215 bad days : NOV 26,27 (thxgvng); DEC 03 (BBBBS) 216 food/loc : Any; suggest quiet & large, TRI-METable, not bar/tavern 217 218 Aaron 219 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 220 221 All: a special thanks for making the MA 76 standard work. 222 223 Aaron 224 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 225 (much later....8:00 am) 226 227 i am going restaurant hunting today. any leads appriciated. 228 229 Sysm: well, maybe i might want a copy (at least to see how my 230 new disk eraser works)............ 231 232 PAM: good to have at least ONE person intrested! i will (by 233 the end of the week) have to decide wether or not to dedicate a phone 234 line to a system (i am just getting some new lines installed). I 235 hope i can generate some more intrest by then. If you have any ideas 236 for the system (format, content, policy) please voice them; i need 237 all the input i can get. 238 Dropped bit: make that 2 people. your ideas welcome also. 239 240 Aaron 241 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 *************************************************** 250 ################################################### 251 252 IT IS THE LOPSIDED MAN WHO RUNS BEST ON THE SIDE HILLS OF LIFE 253 254 255 256 257 LeRoy McKane 258 259 ################################################# 260 ************************************************* 282 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 17-NOV-1983 12:46 [][][][][][][][] 283 284 TO AARON: MAKE IT 3 AT LEAST 285 286 MY VOTE: SEE AARONS VOTE, FOR SAME REASONS. 287 288 D: ISN'T A UNIFIED WORLD GOVERNMENT WHAT IS PURPORTED TO BE THE RESULT 289 OF THE RAPTURE AND MILLENIUM SPOKEN OF IN REVELATIONS? IS THAT WHAT 290 YOU ARE REFERRING TO, OR A SECULAR GOVERNMENT. 291 292 D: (AGAIN) I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT I MAY HAVE CAUSED YOU SOME 293 EMBARRASMENT BY MY RESPONSE TO YOUR FAIRYLIKE TRAVERSING OF MY SYSTEM. 294 IF SO, I AM SORRY, BUT THE INTENT WAS FRIENDLY, NOT FIENDY. I AM INVOLVED, 295 AND ALWAYS LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO CONVERSE WITH WHO HAVE SIMILAR SYNAPSES 296 TO MY OWN PROCESSES. SORRY IF I WAS MISUNDERSTOOD. 297 298 ALL: IS THE POPULARITY OF SF AND ORYCON, ETC RELATED TO THE CONCEPT THAT 299 IF THESE THINGS ARE POSSIBLE, THEN WE DIDN'T BLOW EVERYONE UP? JUST 300 A CONJECTURE. 301 302 MIKEY: I CAN UNDERSTAND ALBANY, OR AS A MILITARY TARGET, BUT WHY PORTLAND? 303 PIA ? THE NATIONAL GUARD ? SURELY THEY ARE NOT SCARED OF 5 AGING PLANES, 304 AND A FEW TRUCKS AND TANKS? IS THERE SOMETHING I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH, 305 OR IS IT THE OLD PROBLEM OF ANY INDUSTRIAL TARGET IS AUTOMATICALLY A 306 MILITARY TARGET? 307 308 (CONCERN, ANGUISH, A SENSE OF FOREBODING) 309 310 AT LEAST IN GROUND ZERO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HOW TO SURVIVE. 311 WHAT IS THE CONSENSUS OF OPINION ON THE MOVIE, 'THE DAY AFTER' 312 GOOD? BAD? WHO CARES? 313 314 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] CHINESE PHILOSOPHER - ON TOO LONG [][][] 315 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 316 330 FOR SALE: TRS MODEL 100; COMPLETE 331 SYSTEM INCLDING AC ADAPT;MODEM 332 CABLE;CENTRONICS CABLE; INSTUCT- 333 TION MANUAL;DOWJONES AND COMPUSERVE 334 TIME;BASIC LANG. MANUAL;A C ADAPTER 335 CALL KEVIN @ 253 0844 OR LEAVE 336 NAME AND NUMBER 337 338 339 ---------------------------------------- 340 "REAL GENEROSITY TOWARD THE FUTURE LIES 341 IN GIVING ALL TO THE PRESENT." 342 -ALBERT CAMAS 343 344 345 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 346 "REAL GENEROSITY TOWARD THE FUTURE LIES 347 IN GIVING PRESENTS TO ALL." 348 ST. NICHOLAS 349 350 ----------------------------------------- 351 suppose we had a choise **** 352 how would we know what to do 353 but it would give some satisfaction 354 to know that it is your own damn fault 355 anybody have a spare thumb 356 357 358 359 360 #%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#% 361 TO ALL: I AM DOING A BIOLOGY TERM PAPER ON EVOLUTION vs. CREATION. I WOULD 362 LIKE ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE SUBJECT IF YOU CARE TO GIVE THEM. THE HELP WILL 363 BE GREATLY EPRECIATED BY MY PARTNER AND I WHO ARE SHARING THIS DEBATE-TYPE 364 PAPRER. THANKS ALOT .... 365 366 #%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%--JODY--#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#% 367 368 369 ALL: PORTLAND, AND SEATTLE/TACOMA ARE PROBABLY NOT TARGETED FOR THEIR MILITA 370 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 371 Aaron: 372 Just a note on your proposed system. Although as a long time "lurker" 373 (I've been calling in to this and other systems for about 3 years) I do 374 not meet your criteria for membership, I would like to offer some 375 constructive criticism. Someone earlier on mentioned the possibility of 376 the board stagnating. You might consider a limited access to outsiders 377 (a "trial period" for newcomers). In this way you might find others who 378 would be compatible with your membership. I have noticed that people come 379 and go in this strange environment. Anyone remember the starcom bb or 380 games people play? You might find that limiting the access eliminates the 381 hassles that caused ABBS to be taken down, but you might eliminate some 382 of the benifits too. 383 At any rate-- good luck and I do wish you great success. 384 -----------------------Dusty----------------------------------------------- 385 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 386 Jody, you haven't answered my questions about Saturday the 26th. There 387 is a message for you on the other drive (DB), that maybe you haven't had 388 a chance to read yet. Please do and answer? Merci. 389 Regarding your paper, you missed the big debate here on that subject a few 390 weeks ago. It was really something! To start it again would to really 391 open a can of worms, but good luck! I know how tough it is somethimes 392 to write papers like that. Bon chance! 393 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke ||||||||||||||||||||| 394 To whoever...Why won't Portland be a target. First someone says it will 395 be, and then someone else says it won't. Just because there are no 396 military targets here doesn't mean we are still not a target. I'm sure 397 there are enough warheads lying around for every major population center 398 in the country, and Portland certainly falls into that category(unfortunatly 399 ) 400 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke - again |||||||||||||||||| 401 402 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 403 404 Aaron, 405 I vote for "M.T. BOTTLE & DELI " on Hayden Island. Its a nice deli -cum- 406 tavern- very informal the individual who runs it is most tolerant of eccentric 407 people and by virtue of its restaurant status minors are allowed. Besides 408 they make great Pastrami 409 As for your BBS .... count me in 410 411 DJJ, et all 412 Portland << IS >> a military target. We host two companys who contribute 413 significantly to the Defense establishment and several smaller companys that 414 provide avionics & electronics 415 1. Boeing 416 2. Precision Castparts 417 and Tektronix , Intel , Flight Dynamics Floating Point not to mention anything 418 about Swan Island shipyard or the Port of Portland ......... 419 Enough said.....depressing as it is 420 421 ::::::::::::::::Alex:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 422 P.S. Any night except ( Friday ) or weekend is OK 423 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 424 DEAR COMPUTERNERD ; 425 I MEET YOU AT THE JUNE CES IN PORTLAND AND MY LIFE HAS NEVER BEEN THE SAME! 426 PLEASE TALK TO ME, I CANT GO ON LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 427 WILL YOU BE AT THE PIZZA PARTY???????? 428 I HOPE TO SEE YOU............... 429 A.P.U. 430 431 [][][] Am I one of those lurkers? [][][] 432 To Mikey, 433 434 Did the documentation I provided you help? I am waiting for a good 435 file transfer program. Hope to see you soon. 436 437 PS - Anyone know of a cave I can hid in, for about a year. I dont like 438 loud noises. 439 440 [][][] Billy [][][] 441 .............................................................. 442 tHE place alex spoke of sounds intruiging. Sounds like just th 443 e place for a bunch of backwaters like us. Hayden island is a 444 little far, and I can see that being trouble for some, but 445 I bet we could arrange some kind of car pool for those who 446 couldn't come otherwise. What do the rest of you think? 447 I for one am lookign forward to 'The Day After', and hence am 448 reserving any more comment until after the movie. 449 ...........The dropped Bit.................................... 450 451 <<< Where is DOM >>> 452 <<< ????????????? >>> 453 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 454 All: 455 I just talked to my friend Yuri at the Kremlin about the 456 possibility of Portland being a bomb-able target for WW3. He checked with the military, and found that somehow we were 457 omitted from the targeting lists. I griped that we were being ignored, complained that the Russians just don't care, and 458 he then assured by that by this time next week, a couple of 10 megaton warheads would be reserved just for us Portlanders. 459 (Actually, I asked if one could be sent to Beaverton, too. He said OK.) 460 So don't worry, we won't be left out. 461 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon :::::::::::::::::::: 462 463 Actually, from what I've heard, they plan for an air burst of 20 megatons 464 right over the Sylvan area, so both Portland and Beaverton will be 465 taken care of. 466 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 467 ********************************************************** 468 BILLY, YES. WHEN CAN I BORROW YOUR MACHINE TO GET IT GOING? 469 ********** CISTOP MIKEY **** 18 NOV 83 ***** 11:00PM ******* 470 WILL SOMEONE PLEASE REVEAL TIME AND PLACE OF THID ""PIZZA PARTY""?????????? 471 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 472 It would seem to me unimportant whether a few or no one survived the bomb. 473 Last I heard the Russians, and the USA also, have several thousand nukes 474 each, ant that easily leaves a few for good ol' River City, or even Portland 475 ,Or. Of course many, even most would not work, but enough would to make 476 it hell on earth. If the dust calculations are right, we freeze, if the 477 effect on O3 (yup, no subscripts)<ozone> is even close we cook; the expected 478 radiation dose is about 300 rems average, meaning if evenly spread maybe 479 only 1/4th will die. Not to worry, only one forth, mostly in the cities, 480 is about 60 million in the USA. But these deaths are unimportant, the 481 destruction of commerce will make cities uninhabitable anyway; those who 482 reamin will starve: a typical US city has only about a week's supply of 483 food. A few air bursts in late summer could burn most of the wheat and 484 corn crops, just like burning cities. Any large population area can support 485 troops, so it IS a valid military target. However, the purpose of destroying 486 the enemy is to scare the survivors off, and letting them know you will 487 bomb anything and anybody is very scary. A small city (maybe Portland) could 488 be a good object lesson to the enemy; let him known you really mean it. 489 By the way, a survivable war implies at least a few million left, it also 490 suggests a continuing war. The fallout from the Russian and US bombs is 491 estimated at 10 to 30 beaches (On the Beach was a pretty accurate descript 492 ion ); if even 90% of the bombs fail, it is still by by. 493 Now, perhaps a sideline: if nukes are the way to the war to end wars, 494 because there will be no one left to fight, what do you do if you need a 495 deadly threat to stop someone from taking over the world? I rather like 496 nerve gas, at least someone on the other side of the world might survive. 497 498 Actually, it might be better to read Luke and Jody's love talk than read 499 about death. No, it would be. I think we have beat this topic to death. 500 OUCH!! 501 //////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\11-19-83////0332 am\\\\\\\\\\ 502 REALITY IS FINDING YOURSELF DOING THE VERY THING YOU DENOUNCED 503 AS A YOUTH............... 504 505 The 80-Plus BBS at 771-4413 is a nighttime only BBS. The phone line is a 506 business line from 9am to 6pm. We really appreciate all you folks who 507 are using the system and most of you who observe the posted hours. 508 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXthanks, 80_Plus sysopXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 509 510 OLD AGE IS FINDING OUT YOU REALLY DON'T CARE ANYMORE. 511 512 513 ******************************************************************************** 514 515 Does anyone know, or would like to comment about the increase military air 516 traffic over the Portland Int. Airport??? 517 518 I live only a few miles away (about 3), and they travel overhead quite often. 519 520 521 522 .....the Sysm 523 524 ******************************************************************************** 525 ....................................................................... 526 WELwELL tomorrow is the big day for the day after movie. I can't believe 527 all the publicity this movie has generatel. It will most likely be one 528 o the most watched shows in recent history. Today's Oregonian Forum page 529 contained 3 articles on the movie on 1 page. I think we will have plenty 530 to discuss after the movie airs. 531 By the way, has anyone noticed Luke and Jody haven't been 532 on here in a while? Is the romance over already? 533 ..........The dropped Bit............................................. 534 In the waning hours of the day I come to the Inn for solice, yet all that 535 find is fear, death, and waste. What has happened to my beloved Inn? 536 Where are my friends? Where even are my enemies? Have you forsaken this 537 humble Inn to leave it a dusty hollow shell of what it once was? 538 My heart is sadened to see this emptyness. Where are you my friends? 539 Where have you gone? Will you not return to once again breath life into 540 this empty shell? 541 ********* The Inn keeper of the Backwater Inn *************************** 542 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 543 Well poor Inn keeper, I am sorry to see you are depressed because of the 544 current state of the Inn. I wish I could answer your questions regarding 545 your friends(and your enemies). I can only say I still enjoy coming to 546 the Inn, although I too am a little depressed. My fair maiden Jody has 547 fled the city in search of better times. She will be back someday I hope, 548 but in the meantime, I will remain in this melecholy state. I hope your 549 friends return, but in the meantime, take solace, there are those of us 550 who do remain, and do care, and hope the Inn never goes away and remains 551 in its current location for years to come... 552 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke |||||||||||||||||||||| 553 554 555 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 556 557 OH INKEEPER, MANY OF US ARE FILLED WITH FEAR AND LOATHING, FOR WE 558 STAND ON THE EDGE OF AN ABYSS. THE WAY BEHIND IS BLOCKED BY THE SELFISH, 559 THE POWER-HUNGRY, AND THE EVIL. OUR PATH IS DEFINED BY THE MAUNDERINGS 560 OF THE ELDERLY DESPOTS OF THE SOVIET EMPIRE AND THE SENILE DEMENTIA OF 561 OUR OWN SHOOT-FROM-THE-HIP COWBOY LEADER. OCCASIONALLY, MY DREAMS ARE 562 HAUNTED BY THE SPECTRE OF MISSILES EXPLODING FROM SILOS LIKE ROTTING 563 ZOMBIES RISING FROM DANK, PUTRESCENT TOMBS AT THE COMMAND OF THEIR WICKED 564 MASTERS. I HOPE THE INN MAY SOON RETURN TO IT'S FORMER LIVELY BANTER, 565 BUT NOW IT APPEARS THAT MANY ARE IN MOURNING FOR WHAT MAY BE THE DEATH 566 OF CIVILIZATION. 567 SIGH.... 568 569 SOME NIGHTS IT CAN BE LONELY, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE RANK SMELL OF 570 FEAR PERMIATES THE WORLD. IT'S GOING TO BE A SLEEPLESS NIGHT IN A COLD, 571 LONELY BED. 572 573 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM-[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 574 575 Pam: You'd make a wonderful straight-man. I'll pass on that line, tho 576 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::: 577 mike, yes modem deal still churning from my end. tacoma club now wants in. 578 i have enough people for qty 25 or will buy extras myself. what is the 579 total price with $17 a chip for the whole kit? if you cant find the parts 580 or whatever i was thinking about making a quantity purchase from that 581 outfit advertising public domain design modems put together from the 582 designs in byte magazine. these are about $60 in quantities of 1 already 583 put together. do you think these would be any good? 584 ........................................................................... 585 MIKEY, I THINK THE PROBLEM HERE MAY BE THAT EXPERTISE IN WARPLANES AND 586 MISSILES DOESN'T HELP RESOLVE THE QUESTIONS. THE RELEVANT INFORMATION IS 587 MOSTLY FROM CLIMATOLOGY, GEOLOGY, BIOLOGY, MEDICINE,AND ECOLOGY. 588 589 MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT BE CONVINCED BY APPEALS TO A BELIEF IN THE EXPERTISE 590 OF THE MILITARY. RATHER THE OPPOSITE. 591 592 NOTE THAT IN NATURE THERE IS ATTENUATION OF EFFECT, AS YOU SAID. THERE ARE 593 ALSO MANY EXAMPLES OF THRESHOLD LEVELS, OVER WHICH ECOSYSTEMS COLLAPSE. 594 NOTE THAT IN CASE OF NUCLEAR WAR WE COULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF 595 20,000 MT ST HELENS EXPLOSIONS. ST HELENS WAS RATED AT THE 12 MEGATON 596 LEVEL. 597 598 HOWEVER, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WOULD DIE MUCH SOONER THAN THE ECOSYSTEM, 599 FROM THE COLLAPSE OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. NO ANTIBIOTICS, NO HOSPITALS, NO 600 DOCTORS, NO RAT CONTROL. NO FOOD. NO WATER, NO HEAT, NO ROOF OVER THE HEAD. 601 AND NO EXPERIENCE IN DEALING WITH THIS. NOT TO MENTION THAT NEARLY ALL 602 PEOPLE IN LARGE CITIES (AS LARGE AS SALEM) IN THIS COUNTRY AND EURASIA 603 WOULD BE DEAD IN THE FIRST HALF HOUR. THEN THERE'S THE COAST-TO-COAST FIRE 604 STORM TO DEAL WITH. 605 606 OF COURSE MOST OR ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS MAY NOT DEVELOP TO THE FULLEST 607 EXTENT POSSIBLE. THATS NO REASON TO BET AGAINST IT. 608 609 IN THAT CONNECTION, THE RELEVANT MATH IS REALLY THAT FOUND IN A BRANCH OF 610 GAMBLING STATISTICAL THEORY CALLED "PROBABILITY OF RUIN". THE BASIC 611 TENET OF THE THEORY IS THAT YOU CANNOT BET YOUR LAST DOLLAR. OR LIFE. OR 612 WORLD. NO MATTER THAT YOU MAY BE RELATIVELY SURE THE OTHER GUY REALLY 613 DOESNT HAVE A STRAIGHT FLUSH. 614 615 BECAUSE OF THE STAKES INVOLVED, IN OTHER WORDS, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS 616 NOT ON THE ANTI-NUCLEARS. IT'S ON THOSE WHO WOULD LET THE PRESENT SYSTEM 617 CONTINUE. 618 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE PESSIMIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 619 ************************************************************ 620 I agree . Too much is being said on the one topic. 621 Radio,television,bus stop it doesnt seem to matter 622 But i guess its current events 623 624 625 626 Tomarrow morning Im getting up early and taking a hike up along 627 Terwiliger. There is a beautiful view of the city from there. 628 If the sun comes up and its clear you cant find a more inspiring picture 629 Good luck to all see you next disk***Beverly