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From: RUFUS
To: CRYSTAL
Subject: Earth??!! Huh?
Date & Time: 07/18/90 17:01:15
Message Number 6551
> Turtle, byte your mother board.
I love that. Quote alert! Quote alert!
===========
From: TURTLE
To: KEN OBER
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/18/90 20:18:46
Message Number 6554
>You are obviously not concerned about the fact that our country is
>going MARXIST and such...
Concerned about it? CONCERNED about the workers uniting to throw off the
yoke of capitalist oppression and coming together in a glorious workers'
paradise, free from the chains of slavery to the elite classes?
Seriously, dude, what do recycling programs and Marxism have in common?
===========
From: TURTLE
To: BEATLE
Subject: Poison
Date & Time: 07/18/90 20:23:32
Message Number 6555
Poison's version of "Every Rose Has Its Thorns" was, I believe, a re-
make of somebody else's song by the same name, though I could be
mistaken. It's not a terribly good song, though.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: RUFUS
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/18/90 20:30:32
Message Number 6556
Cape Coral, whichj has just implemented a mandatory recycling program,
actually PROVIDES the containers you use to sort stuff out, free of
charge. They also don't charge residents for the extra pickups they
make every week (three a week: one for glass and aluminum, one for
paper and other recyclables, one for non-recyclable trash). Personally,
I think it's an excellent idea, and contrary to Mr. Ober's belief, I
don't think a little mandatory social responsibility is going to take
us all down the path to darkness and totalitarianism. Figure it's
either that or we all drown in our own garbage, which is likely to
end up bothering people a whole lot more than the inconvenience of
dropping toe soda can in the box instead of the trash.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: RUFUS
Subject: VIC? Huh?
Date & Time: 07/18/90 20:34:17
Message Number 6557
>Five computers, if you count the Vic.
I wouldn't. Someone tried to give me one fo those things once, in
perfect (so to speak) working order, free of charge. I told him no
way.
===========
From: RUFUS
To: TURTLE
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/19/90 02:21:32
Message Number 6561
Just what kind of paper can be recycled. As it is now, we recycle
newspaper, but that's it. What about those color inserts in the paper,
the cartons you get soda in, cartons for milk, junk mail, glossy paper?
===========
From: RUFUS
To: ALL
Subject: Lie
Date & Time: 07/19/90 02:23:08
Message Number 6562
It's all a big, giant, bug-eyed, mucus oozing, puss filled, rotten,
stinky, bad-mannered, ill tempered, close-minded, congested lie!
Thank you and good day...
===========
From: BEATLE
To: MAX
Subject: Mr. Williams
Date & Time: 07/19/90 02:39:49
Message Number 6563
> no logic or intelligence...
Sounds like "Beyond Chaos" to me...
===========
From: BEATLE
To: TURTLE
Subject: Poison
Date & Time: 07/19/90 02:42:08
Message Number 6564
> "Every Rose Has It's Thorns"...
That song makes me think of Guns and Roses (and not just becuase of
the word "rose"...)
===========
From: THRUD
To: ANGEL
Subject: ignore
Date & Time: 07/19/90 05:51:39
Message Number 6565
Two possibilities here. First, we have experienced a clever test of
the emergency censorship system, and we can take the chain into a
grand new debate on the subject. (Perhaps the worst thing about
religious debate is that very few people are truly openminded)
Second possibility is that we have a lost soul craving attention
and doing anything to get it. We should be pleased that this cretin
is not burning the flag or shooting from a water tower. Anyway, when
a child misbehaves solely to see an adults reaction or get attention,
a knee-jerk reaction could be considered a successs on the child's
part, and the misbehavior will be repeated.
Frankly, I don't understand what I just wrote......more caffeine please
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Heart
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:05:07
Message Number 6567
I will agree with you on the spirit of faithful relationships - but
the biggest problem within their ranks (ie - as THEY percieve it) is
a LACK of these relationships and, indeed is the basis for the term
"gay". Qualifications for this statement? 4 years in San Francisco
with several gay friends and several in Salt Lake City (which surprising
enough is a major area for homosexuals to settle - I say surprising
because the Mormon Church is stringently anti-gay). For some reason
which homosexual leaders would love to ascertain, gays are notorious for
the frequency and variety of their sexual encounters and one gay poet
describes it as "desperate groping". I would like to add that in all
this time I have never been propositioned by a gay and only occasionally
felt "put out" by graphic descriptions of some fringe homosexual
behavior. They are human beings with a slightly different outlook on
life.
JonBoy
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Catholicism
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:14:28
Message Number 6568
Let's try and seperate the people from the idea and beliefs...
There are many people that have the abhorrant practice of referring
to Jews as "Christ killers". I cannot impart the extent of my dislike
for people of this type. Hate would come close - but i'm not supposed
to - forgive and forget as such... However I will dislike them with
all the vigor I can muster. This same sort of behavior is observed
with any group of human beings - emphasis on group because we are
talking herd behavior patterns. If you ain't like us then 1) You are
different therefor bad 2) we will try to get away from/rid of you.
You must understand that simply because someone professes that Jesus\
is at the heart of their church does not make it so. The mormans are a
classic example of a cult - they use the accourtements of "standard"
Christianity - but there the resemblance stops - just enought to
confuse and ensnare the uninformed - and sad to say there are lots of
them. Protestants have "traditionally" held that the Catholic church
has no part of true Christianity because they do not hold with Biblical
teachings (as I have pointed out in other messages) and have actively
in the past tried to enslave people to their belief system. It is not
easy for these religions to forgive because they never understood the
problem as it stood centuries ago - what they have now is an irrational
belief. /I/ can say I dislike the religion from a knowledgable
standpoint - and I sure that many others can also. Many of the herd
however moo like they've been taught.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:26:04
Message Number 6569
hehe... yeah I know what he taught but I have to make you earn that
smug twist to your beak! Interestingly enough I am reading a book
about chaos right now and they pointed out that Galileo's equations
for the motion of a pendulum are STILL taught in some places as the
way it is... for all practical purposes the minor nonlinearty can be
ignored but it is still there and can lead to chaotic behavior.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: definitions
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:29:44
Message Number 6570
Why must we deal with natures' minor perversities? Pardon me for
being so blunt but if a walking homo replica were to actually indulge
in such fantasies with me I would have to reposition them for a
second trial - after all - statistics are built on repeatability!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Yup
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:32:45
Message Number 6571
Believe it or not they still have a comapny that will do repairs and
sell stuff for it - they will sell you the CP/M disk for $90.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Bumper annoyanc
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:34:27
Message Number 6572
How /do/ those fringe radicals manage to steal all the good press?
Mayhaps they simply present a good target for those who are looking?
Mark Twain: " To a man with a hammer - everything looks like a nail".
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Rock-ola
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:36:25
Message Number 6573
I never said that was the only thing I'd heard with Dio - I just stated
that it sucked - he really hasn't done well on his own - I have the
Rainbow stuff from when Richie Blackmore started it. I think that if
Dio finds his niche - he will put out something worthwhile.
I like ShadowFax, I LOVE Jean Luc Ponty, David Lanz I have several of,
Peter Buffett, David Arkenstone, Kitaro, Jean Michael Jarre (exceptional
Vangelis of which my favorite is with Jon Anderson - "Private Collection
Michael Hodges, Andreas Vollenweider. Some of these do double duty as
Rock-n-roll or Jazz.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really Immoral
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:42:17
Message Number 6574
I really don't feel up to defending the following statement - so here
it is ready for the darts.
Some forms of expression need to be restricted - after a certain limit
it becomes anarchy. What is the limit - this depends on the social
currents at the time of interests and therefor flexible. As a genearl
rule society enters a turmoil and comes out a little more on the pacid
(oops) placid side. Throwing a paint filled ziplock at your house is
a form of self-expression - it goes without saying that since it has
a direct impact on you that it is restricted.
I also disagree that reading such statements is harmless. Call it
intuition born of experience - but it seems that people that restrict
their expressions out of respect for others make for better citizens on
the whole. Whoops - point I was trying to make is that the mental set
of people that indulge in racy bumperstickers almost invites me to
stick the tag "mental midget" on their forhead and say "case closed".
If it is genuinely funny - I can understand humor - but some are just
deliberately obnoxious and try to give the impression of "coolness" of
the owner. Ah hell I quit - I'm tired. If any of you have ever had
kids repeat these things at an inopportune time...
===========
From: JONBOY
To: GEORGE WILLIAMS
Subject: coming fucking
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:52:39
Message Number 6575
Practicing for someone? Gee Turtle - a bumpersticker fan!!!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: DONTHEN
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/19/90 19:54:46
Message Number 6576
Gee Donthen - we agree - I like Tina and John Denver both. I was real
sorry to see put down songs like Annie's song as sentimental tripe when
in fact they are heartfelt ballads. Tell me - whet do you think of
Harry Chapin?
===========
From: NAME
To: DONTHEN
Subject: definitions
Date & Time: 07/19/90 21:36:30
Message Number 6577
D>If a group says they believe one way but consistently live as if they
D>do not, what is an impartial observer to decide they /truly/ believe -
D>- what they profess, or what they actually do?
Good point. What is an impartial observer to decide what is truth?
I decide what is truth based on what God says and not what man says or
does. I believe the Bible to be truth and if I may quote, "The spirit
is willing, but the flesh is weak." That is why I can believe in some-
thing and not live it. It's a shame.
===========
From: NAME
To: DONTHEN
Subject: Catholicism
Date & Time: 07/19/90 21:50:29
Message Number 6578
D>...Catholic bashing...
Very funny. We can bash anybody, if we want to point out that people
are at fault. I, however, don't see it as bashing, but merely
discussing the different viewpoints taken by different denominations.
I also like the idea of holding an atheist's attention if he thinks
we're arguing, because hopefully they will find SOME truth in all
this discussing.
1 Corinthians; Chap 13, Verse 9: "For we know in part and we
prophesy in part. [verse 10] but when perfection comes, the imperfect
dissapears."
===========
From: NAME
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/19/90 22:07:44
Message Number 6579
T>The Bible does not talk about Hell, particularly as a place where
T>the condemned go.
First of all, the Bible uses Hell in a complete and full sentence
FIFTY THREE times, and each time speaks PARTICULARLY about the condemned
and where they will go and what they will feel. I don't understand,
unless of course you've never READ the Bible, how you could say such
things.
Matthew Chap 16, Verse 17: "Bless'd are you, Simon, Son of Jonah,
for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in Heaven.
[verse 18] And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will
build my church. And the gates of Hell shall not prevail. I will give
you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven."
Concerning your statement of God keeping a place of punishment for
those who disobey Him, as you can see by this scripture, Jesus has given
us a promise. That Hell does not have to win. Turtle,there is a
spiritual war taking place and the Devil will do anything to keep you
from Heaven including, leading you to believe God is not only pushing
you into doing what he says but also giving you ultimatims if you
don't. This is not true. On the other hand, it is. But it's
still your choice to decide whether or not you think God is pushing
you or the Devil.
===========
From: NAME
To: THRUD
Subject: Catholicism
Date & Time: 07/19/90 22:37:08
Message Number 6580
Jeez, I'm sorry. I didn't realize anyone was going to assume I meant
ALL Catholics. How could I possibly know what ALL Catholics do?
However, unless the Catholics whom I love dearly have changed
drastically in the last five years, they or should I say, some of them,
are taught the average church-goer is not qualified to interpret the
Bible. I can't imagine why the leaders would keep the commoner from
reading the bible on thier own, that's all.
===========
From: NAME
To: ANGEL
Subject: Bible
Date & Time: 07/19/90 22:49:59
Message Number 6581
A>Hey, it doesn't have to be in the Bible to be codified by
A>Christian religions. The good book doesn't make a metntion of
A>the Trinity (God in Three Persons), but it's still a tenet of
A>most Crhistian faiths.
Hey, I really need an example of what you mean in your first
sentence. That was a pretty broad statement.
And, the "good book" does make mention of the Trinity (God in
Three Persons)...
1 John Chap 5, Verse 7: For there are THREE that bear record in
Heaven, the Father, the Word, Holy Ghost, and these three are
one. [verse 8] And there are three in Earth, Spirit, Water, Blook,
these three agree in one.
This is where we get the tenent of Trinity from.
However, the word Trinity is not found in the Bible
===========
From: ETC...
To: BEATLE
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/19/90 23:28:50
Message Number 6582
I beleive that Recycling should be manditory, but I also think that they
should not charge for pick-up... THey (the city, state, government)
only charge the companies for the recyled aluminum and whatever...
Did anyone see the news program about charging by pound for garbage
pick-up? I personally think that that is a great idea.
It is already in effect throughout Seattle...
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: DONTHEN
Subject: Stuff
Date & Time: 07/19/90 23:45:47
Message Number 6583
D>...deleted his one liner from the Ranean Tales base...
Concur.
Wholeheartedly.
D>...changing my handle to "Max"...
Why?
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: BEATLE
Subject: perversity
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:01:45
Message Number 6584
I apologise for making such a "rude" statement. But you honestly
don't believe that there is anything perverse about a man screwing
another man in an orfice which was originally intended for one way
operations? About a man kissing another man? You think that there is
nothing unusual there?
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: BEATLE
Subject: standards
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:09:18
Message Number 6585
I would believe that there are less monogamous relationships between
homos than hetros. Based on that (possibly erroneous) conclusion,
(he says, charging wildly into another assumption) I would say that
the incidence of multiple lovers among homos is more common than
hetros. Therefore, by advocating homosexuality, Donthen is also
advocating multiple lovers. (He finishes with a wild eyes flourish.)
So, by criticizing Ann Wilson's song, he is indulging in hypocrisy!
"Ever hear of Socrates? Plato? Aristotle?"
"Yes...."
"Morons."
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:21:29
Message Number 6586
TS>>They all subscribe to the same God, right? So what more?
TS>
T>Ted Bundy and I both drive (or drove) Volkswagen Bugs...so what more?
T>
EXACTLY!!!!!
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: NO, NO!
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:23:17
Message Number 6587
TS>>Does anyone have the statistics on who is the best educated state?
TS>>
T>DUh...Japan?
T>
No, I mean of the UNITED States...which one?
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really odd
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:25:25
Message Number 6588
TS>>You WILL worship Him or you WILL go to Hell
TS>
T>FOR sinner:=burnd TO cinder;
T>NEXT sinner
DO LOOP UNTIL eternity
END
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Moral/Relavancy
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:28:59
Message Number 6589
I think that you missed both of my points. And obviously, Just because
pubic opinion says one thing doesn't mean that it will be enforced.
And you cannot use this country as a yardstick to the rest of the world.
My other point was that rape and molestation are not NORMAL. The
fact that they hurt other people not withstanding...my point was
that those also are perverse acts. They fall into the same category.
Hmmm. They said that about oral sex, eh? I can just IMAGINE what they
said about homoperversity.
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Gun Control
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:37:44
Message Number 6590
Do you think that the fact that a lot of americans own handguns is no
deterrent to foriegn countries invading us? It sounds silly, but
perhaps it plays a tiny role....
And I think that if you eliminate drugs, you could cut down on
crime to a degree.
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Pop-ola
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:40:58
Message Number 6591
T>Poison's bet song..."Thorns," ...barely pulls a 3.5.
And it surely wasn't for the complex, well thought out lyrics.
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: MAX
Subject: relationships
Date & Time: 07/20/90 00:48:13
Message Number 6592
D>Why don't YOU ackowledge OUR point -- even if you don't like homo-
D>sexuality, and don't condone it or approve of it, id doesn't make the
D>homosexual in question into a child-mosesting perverted monster. It
D>only makes him a human being with a sexual preference that you don't
D>like.
"child-molesting perverted monster"...boy, you got only one word
right. I can acknowledge that it doesn't make them INTO a "child-
molesting perverted monster". I do. Sincerely.
I equate homosexuality with perversity. I will even coin a word,
"homoperversity". I did not say that because you are one, you are all,
I simply said that they are on the same level. A child molester has
a sick mind. Normal people don't think of doing and enjoying things
like that. Homosexuality is not a preference. it is an abberance.
It was not meant to be in the first place. I am sure that a sick mind
thought of it to begin with. Men should be attracted to women, not
other men. I would like to know what is normal about man being
attracted to man.
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: MAX
Subject: censorship
Date & Time: 07/20/90 01:02:04
Message Number 6593
D> I /have/ deleted messages before -- but not on the basis of the
D>[contents of the message]...
That is "manifest bullshit". You have deleted messages because I
used terms that you didn't like to refer to your gay friends. You
don't call that censorship? Hah!
===========
From: TREE BEARD
To: JONBOY
Subject: express
Date & Time: 07/20/90 01:32:00
Message Number 6594
Don't be sorry for going away, Ive been away quite a bit longer.
Went on vacation, and quit smoking (again)... every time I go on
vacation I quit smoking, then two months later I start up again. Oh
well, wish me luck.
U can use an iron to take the wax off... works pretty well, but it
is a pain in the ass! I just did some tie bleach, looks pretty good...
(every on else hates em...) Well, now that I have rambleded on for
much to long for my health... (60 mghz death rays of electromagnitism)
just kidden
Tree Beard
===========
From: TURTLE
To: RUFUS
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/20/90 01:59:12
Message Number 6595
You can recycle any paper that's not shiny (like magazine stock),
waxy, or coated (as of now, ALL food service paper, from milk cartons
to the so-called "biodegradable" packaging Burger King uses, is
coated and therefore not recyclable). Newsprint, ordinary notebook
paper, cardboard, junkmail that's not shiny, all that sort of stuff can
be recycled.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: BEATLE
Subject: Poison
Date & Time: 07/20/90 02:01:44
Message Number 6596
There's not a whole lot of similarity between Guns 'n' Roses and
Poison. Axel Rose has a remarkably good voice; Poison's lead singer
makes me wish I were deaf. Guns 'n' Roses is generally musically
interesting, and more than a little talented; all of Poison's musical
talent would fit in a matchbook without taking the matches out first.
On the other hand, Axel Rose probably qualifies as one of the nation's
leading living assholes--a veritable monument to his own anus. Nobody's
perfect.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THRUD
Subject: ignore
Date & Time: 07/20/90 02:04:18
Message Number 6597
Well, it seems Mr. Williams is a busy little cretin indeed. In a
twelve-hour period he called almost every single BBS in Sarasota,
Bradenton, and Venice, and left numerous messages identical to the
ones he left here. Don't know what he was looking for; I've talked to
several area sysops about him, and it appears he was annoyed at one
local Fido sysop who didn't give him access to the echomail areas,
so this is how he expressed his displeasure. Frankly, I'd like to
see the man busted for telephone harrassment. Anybody out there know
ANYTHING at all about George Williams?? (I know, slim-to-none chance,
but it doesn't hurt to ask.)
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Pop Quiz
Date & Time: 07/20/90 02:10:07
Message Number 6598
Okay, I've got a question for ya. (People who've heard it before
need not answer.) I'm standing on the surface of an airless world, and
I throw a ball into the air such that it travels in a perfectly smooth
arc (ie, no frictional considerations) and lands some distance away
from me. Now: What shape accurately describes its arc? The answer most
people will give--and the one a lot of textbooks I've seen will give--
isn't the right one...
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: General annoy..
Date & Time: 07/20/90 02:14:37
Message Number 6599
>How /do/ those fringe radials manage to steal all the good press?
Um...at a guess, because they're the most vocal, active, and highly
visible of the people who claim to be Christian? For "fringe radicals,"
hyperconservative Fundamentalism has a hell of a strong and popular
following, and nobody can deny they're /very/ effective at hammering
their belief system, their morality, and even their taste in reading
material down the throats of the majority, Christian or no. These
people may not represent "mainstream" Christianity, but there's enough
of them that they can't be ignored or dismissed as a few loonies, and
they're persistent enough and noisy enough to affect the views non-
Christians have of Christianity as a whole.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Really Immoral
Date & Time: 07/20/90 02:20:54
Message Number 6600
>...it seems that people who restrict their expressions ot of respect
>for others makes for a better society...
Yes, that may be true, but does it therefore follow that restricting
/other's/ expressions by force also makes for a more polite society?
If a society is experiencing difficulty because its members can no
longer behave in a respectful manner toward one another, it seems to me
that there's something else wrong there--and preventing the people in
the society from issuing utterances containing "bad" words (if indeed
there really is such a thing) isn't going to cause an abrupt shift in
the outlook of the people you're restricting. It also doesn't really
follow that a society whose members use words that have arbitrarily
been designated as "bad" is one that's up for a good bout of anarchy
next Tuesday. There are a lot more factors at work here, and in the
cosmic scale of things prohibiting dirty bumper stickers doesn't seem
likely to create a new air of politeness and restraint.
I guess what I'm saying is that I'm inherently suspicious of any attempt
to abrogate anybody's freedom of expression, for any reason, unless
there's clear and convincing evidence that it will serve the common good
in a direct manner. Banning bumper stickers doesn't really seem likely
to cause any miraculous change in society, or even prevent people from
swearing at one another. It is simply a restriction placed on the
populance for no reason other than some people don't like to see some
words in print and don't feel anyone else should either...a personal
reason, not one predicated on the well-being of society.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: NAME
Subject: Truth
Date & Time: 07/20/90 02:30:10
Message Number 6601
>I decide what is truth based on what God says and not what man says or
>does. I believe the Bible to be truth...
Okay, here's one I still have never heard an answer to: You believe the
Bible to be truth, as revealed by god, based on what? On the fact that
the Bible /says/ it is? (Look: God is omnipotent, omiscient, and love;
see, it says so right here on the label!) Almost every major scriptural
work claims to be the truth--what makes the Bible any more valid than
the Bhagivad Ghita, the Koran, or any other religious work? Belief in
the Bible is fundamentally an act of faith, not an act of knowledge,
and claiming to have arrived at the truth based solely on an act of
faith seems like a difficult proposition to defend, particularly to
an objective outsider.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: NAME
Subject: Really translit
Date & Time: 07/20/90 02:37:49
Message Number 6602
>...the Bible mentions Hell...FIFTY-THREE TIMES...
Depends on what translation you're using. The King James Version, I
fear, is not a terribly reliable source; while it's the most poetic
English Bible ever created, it's also generally acknowledged to be
just about the worst translation. It is in some places a second or
even third generation translation; large portions of the work come
from the Latin Vulgate, which had problems of its own, and Greek
texts. In point of fact, there is no unique Hebrew construct for
the words "Hell" or "soul" as they appear in the KJV; the Hebrew
uses the word (transliterated as) "ne'phesh" interchangably as "life"
or "soul" (as in Lev. 11:10, "every living ne'phesh that is in the
waters") and there is no indication in the Hebrew texts that the
early Hebrews acknowledged either an immortal soul or punishment in
a place called "hell". (To your implied question: Yes, I have read the
Bible, in more than one translation, and would respectfully suggest that
you consider obtaining an English translation not based on the KJV if
you'd like a more objective account of the written portion of the
Christian faith...or even considering in investing in an Anchor Bible
if you've got a wad of money kicking around underfoot.)
Unfortunately, I think you also missed the point of my objection to a
religion predicated on all people either going to heaven or hell.
Christian doctorine as it is now taught states that people who are not
saved will go to hell; I can not accept a deity who would, for any
reason, condemn any sapient being to eternal torture simply because
that being wasn't properly reverent, particularly in light of that
deity's refusal to provide any objective evidence to set his religion
apart from any other. It doesn't matter to me that Christianity has
an out--the mere fact that it teaches that there is a hell is sufficient
to keep me away from it. The only religions I've encountered for which I
have respect don't condemn non-believers.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: NAME
Subject: Bible
Date & Time: 07/20/90 03:04:03
Message Number 6603
>[The Bible] is where we get the tenent of Trinity from.
So are you a monotheist or a polytheist?
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Bias in bias
Date & Time: 07/20/90 03:05:17
Message Number 6604
>...you honestly don't believe that there is anything perverse about
>a man screwing another man...?
So tell me: Are you equally biased against female homosexuality, or is
the bulk of your intolerance directed against /male/ gays exclusively?
There's something kind of perversely amusing [if you will pardon the
expression] about a prejudiced prejudice...
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Moral/Relavancy
Date & Time: 07/20/90 03:10:07
Message Number 6605
>...you cannot use this country as a yardstick to the rest of the world.
I like to think that that's one of this country's strengths...but you
still evaded my question. If what is moral is determined by public
opinion, then is morality variable from society to society or does the
majority on a /worldwide/ scale rule? I also think you're missing the
problem with the argument that relates homosexuality to rape: by
condemning them both as "perverse," regardless of the fact that one is
a crime of violence directed against another person and the other is
not, you open yourself up to a whole lot of similar comparisons which
are clearly unsupportable. If I were to say, for example, that extra-
marital sex is immoral, and therefore perverse, I could by your logic
equate it with rape with equal validity. In fact, by your argument ANY
action that ANYONE finds perverse, be it oral sex, sex outside the
missionary position, sex on the Sabbath, or eating Cap'n Crunch without
Crunch Berries, is the moral equivalent of rape. I'm sorry, but I simply
don't buy that argument; I'd like to think that there's some difference,
no matter how slight or how technical, between an action perpetrated
with violence against an innocent individual and an action which is
not.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Gun Control
Date & Time: 07/20/90 03:16:11
Message Number 6606
I think the fact that this country is not immediately approachable by
a hostile power, has no antagonistic neighbors, has a very large and
well-equipped army, and has the militart and economic muscle to throw
its weight around almost with impunity has contributed more to the
fact that we haven't been attacked than does the fact that the
citizenry is armed to the teeth. "Red Dawn" notwithstanding, a .30-06
doesn't do noticable damage to an APC. On the other hand, I'd say that
the fact that a large number of Americans own guns HAS contributed to
the fact that I personally /have/ been attacked, and would like to
take this opportunity to point out that it doesn't matter if I'm killed
by an evil Russkie or a random American asshole with a gun; I'm still
dead. I also wonder if the feeling of protection from foreign invasion
you may feel because everyone and his dog packs assault rifles is really
worth turning most major inner cities into microcosmic models of
Lebanon is really worth the trade. Countries like Sweden may be open to
the evil imperialists of the world, but you're still ten thousand
percent more likely to be shot dead here than there, although the know-
ledge that it's American lead rather than foreign lead that's just
precipitated in your vital parts must be a comfort.
No, I'm not really n anti-gun nut (point of fact, I like guns a
/whole lot/); I just don't like getting shot at.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: censorship
Date & Time: 07/20/90 03:26:11
Message Number 6607
"Manifest bullshit"...God I love that expression!
===========
From: RUFUS
To: TURTLE
Subject: ignore
Date & Time: 07/20/90 15:14:49
Message Number 6608
>In a twelve-hour period he called almost every single BBS in Sarasota
And he missed mine. Damn!
:)
===========
From: RUFUS
To: ETC...
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/20/90 15:21:19
Message Number 6609
Charging by pound would be a fair way of handling it, but it would have
some drawbacks. If people had to pay per pound, they'd be more likely
to find a local empty space and dump their garbage there. If they knew
they had to pay "x" amount if they had no bags of garbage or 10 bags of
garbage, they'd probably stick it out on the curb come Monday morning
pick-up.
===========
From: ETC...
To: RUFUS
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/20/90 16:21:33
Message Number 6610
I disagree, in Seatle it has worked so far with only a very slight
increase in ileagle dumping...
===========
From: ANGEL
To: MAX
Subject: Mr. Williams
Date & Time: 07/20/90 23:03:10
Message Number 6611
No, no, no, no. I was re-iterating Donthen's earlier statement that
deleting messages equates with censorship. That is not my belief,
since his definition for censorship was posted in response to my
suggesting that are certain types of messages that should be
considered for deleting.
===========
From: ANGEL
To: RUFUS
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/20/90 23:07:08
Message Number 6612
> Just what kind of paper can be recycled?
I don't know about private recycling, but at work we recycle pllain
paper and computer paper (we get the highest price/ton for greenbar
paper). Our recycler will not accept newspaper or gloss stock. From
the plain white stock they recycle it and (among other purposes) use
it to make toilet paper .... a fitting end for most corporate memos.
===========
From: ANGEL
To: NAME
Subject: gates of...
Date & Time: 07/20/90 23:16:44
Message Number 6613
Which Bible? Mine has your quoted scripture reading "...and the
powers of death shall not lprevail against it." with appropriate
footnote saying that in the original Greek text the exact quote
reads "the gates of Hades". Are you reading a paraphrased Bible?
===========
From: ANGEL
To: NAME
Subject: Bible
Date & Time: 07/20/90 23:23:54
Message Number 6614
Again, not in my Bible (I have three different translations, and none
of them are close to yours) RSV 1 John 5 v 7: And the Spirit is the
witness, because the Spirit is the truth. There are three witnesses,
the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree." No
footnote. And my three versions say roughly the same thing.
"Is there in truth no beauty?" Star Trek, Episode 78.
===========
From: ANGEL
To: ETC...
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/20/90 23:27:24
Message Number 6615
> charging by poung for garbage pick-up...
Not so neat an idea. Sarasota county only recently changed garbage
pick-up to a flat fee per household (previously you charged by the
can). This was to prevent people from illegally dumping, and since
that has been in effect, cases of dumping have dropped considerably.
===========
From: BEATLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: perversity
Date & Time: 07/21/90 01:44:52
Message Number 6617
> You think that there is nothing unusual there?
Unusual is a relative term... I'm just thinking with an open mind. A
homosexual person has their own preference. That's not my business to
decide what is or isn't "perverse" or "unusual".
I don't like thrash metal, or most heavy metal in general. I think
it's different, that doesn't mean it's perverse.
===========
From: BEATLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: standards
Date & Time: 07/21/90 01:47:40
Message Number 6618
Sorry, I can't quote, so let me paraphrase.
Since the number of non-monogomous relationships is more between homo-
sexuals, you believe that Donthen is a hypocrite becuase he doesn't like
non-monogomous relationships.
Lemme ask you... do you advocate heterosexuality? Do you deplore non-
monogomous relationships? If you answered yes to both, then by your
logic, you're also a hypocrite. But, you throw in the point that there
are more non-monogomous relationships with homosexuals. Well, that could
be a factor in your logic, but I don't see where it makes a big heap of
difference.
Ever consider that because people like you don't accept homosexuals,
they are afraid to say that they are gay, and this causes a shortage of
people to have monogomous relationships with?
Just a thought.
===========
From: BEATLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Moral/Relavancy
Date & Time: 07/21/90 01:54:06
Message Number 6619
> rape and molestation are not NORMAL.
Well, to use your logic, you have to convince others that being gay is
not normal, and that is far different than convincing someone that rape
and molestation are not normal.
===========
From: BEATLE
To: TURTLE
Subject: Pop Quiz
Date & Time: 07/21/90 02:00:15
Message Number 6620
You can't ask the question. You threw a ball into air that wasn't
there... technically, you can't be there either.
===========
From: BEATLE
To: ANGEL
Subject: things...
Date & Time: 07/21/90 02:11:28
Message Number 6621
> "Is there in truth no beauty?" Star Trek, Episode 78.
You picked a random number, didn't you? "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
isn't epsisode 78 by either of the standards used to numerically arrange
the Treks (production or air order...)
===========
From: BEATLE
To: ALL
Subject: Censorship
Date & Time: 07/21/90 02:14:32
Message Number 6622
Found this letter on censorship in an old Video Review. Some of you
may get a kick out of it.
"VAMPIRES (AKA CENSORSHIP) is taking over! VAMPIRES are draining blood
from many otherwise enjoyable programs. In today's Television, the
VAMPIRE IS KING! His Horrible Legacy:
1. Cop Shows without shooting or lessons learned.
2. Doctor Shows without operations or dying.
3. Westerns without Cowboys.
This reminds me of the story of the boy standing still while somebody
smashed him in the face, over and over again, and what the boy finally
said: "OK, I think I've had enough now."
And it made it onto the same page with these two words: "sleezbags" and
"Syndrom", both in a letter from a teacher...
If you thought that was good, you should see the rest of the page.
===========
From: BEATLE
To: ALL
Subject: Omaha
Date & Time: 07/21/90 14:11:13
Message Number 6624
I was watching TV last night, and they had a commercial for Monday's
"Entertainment Tonight"
"Dick Tracy had a hit movie. So did Superman and Batman. Is Omaha the
Cat Dancer next?"
I beleieve their example was hypothetical (the story will be on adult
comics that MAY inspire movies), but it was quite funny, since this idea
had been brought up recently on the furry echo.
===========
From: KEN OBER
To: TURTLE
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/21/90 16:24:57
Message Number 6625
> Seriously, dude, what do recycling and Marxism have in common?
Nothing. MANDATORY RECYCLING and Marxism, however, and one-and-the-
same....
===========
From: RAVEN
To: KEN OBER
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/21/90 17:33:52
Message Number 6626
> Nothing. MANDATORY RECYCLING and Marxism, however, and one-and-the-
> same....
Mandatory recycling, however, is probably the only way to get some
people to do the recycling thing.
===========
From: RAVEN
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/21/90 17:36:36
Message Number 6627
>but I can't condone child beating, or molestation, or rape, or homo...
>or beasti..., and these are all things that can go on behind closed
>doors!!!
What has homosexuality got to do with child beating, rape, and
molestation, and why do you find yourself unable to type it, when you
no problem with typing the three things that are actualy deplorable?
Inquiring minds want to know.
===========
From: ETC...
To: KEN OBER
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/21/90 23:34:35
Message Number 6628
One in the same as in recycled ideas?
===========
From: KEN OBER
To: RAVEN
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/22/90 03:03:47
Message Number 6629
So? Killing druggies is probably the only way to stop them using drugs
totally ... What's your point?
===========
From: TURTLE
To: BEATLE
Subject: Business is bad
Date & Time: 07/22/90 04:25:24
Message Number 6630
>That's not my business to decide what is or isn't "perverse" or
>"unusual."
Of course not. As everyone knows, the man in charge of deciding what
is and is not perverse is Jesse Helms. What's more, he's also qualified
to decide what is and is not obscene, blasphemous, pornographic,
immoral, degrading, without redeeming value, artistic, acceptable,
normal, decent, and proper.
A busy man, Mr. Helms. You almost wonder where he finds the time to
raise $10,000 a week in campaign contributions, meet with special
interest groups and lobbyists from the NRA and tobacco industry, shoot
down efforts to pass legislation designed to clean up unsavory
Congressional practices, defend the flag, support the South African
government, filibuster against civil rights legislation, accuse
political opponents of homosexuality, and explain to the voting public
how Dr. martin Luther King, Jr. was a Communist. (In his spare time, he
cuts off funding for the National Endowment for the Arts, donates money
to white supremecist organizations and publications, dips his hand in
the Congressional mass-marketing till, and proposes that people who
have AIDS and people associated in any with people who have AIDS should
be placed in concentration camps.)
===========
From: TURTLE
To: BEATLE
Subject: Censorship
Date & Time: 07/22/90 04:39:21
Message Number 6631
If you liked that letter, you're gonna /love/ this one (from Playboy's
April 1990 issue):
"As a Christian and a member of the Baptist Church for 40 years, I am
saddened and even appalled that the only reasonably accurate and un-
biased account of the Reverends Donald Wildmon's, Pat Robertson's, and
Dr. James C. Dobson's activities is published in Playboy magazine.
Playboy may be the only place a dissenting opinion can reach other
Christians. The Playboy Forum has characterized the influence of those
preachers as being akin to McCarthyism; I would characterize it as a
resurgence of the Dark Ages, with its inquisitions, witch trials and
crusades. If we do not expose these new knights of the cross for who and
what they are, they will succeed.
"I cherish the right to practice my religion in peace. But I will not
support any person who would limit the personal freedoms granted of us
all, Christian or not, by the First Amendment. Advocates of religious
tyrrany have hidden behind the Christian banner far too often."
===========
From: TURTLE
To: KEN OBER
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/22/90 04:46:35
Message Number 6632
>MANDATORY RECYCLING and Marxism, however, are one-and-the-same....
Yes, I believe there is a chapter on mandatory recycling in "Das
Kapital," come to think of it! It goes something like this:
"Death to the imperialist bourgeiose whipping dogs who force us to
separate our garbage into recyclable piles before removing it from
our doorstep! The workers of th world have a RIGHT to have their
trash taken away daily! How dare the imperialist pig-dogs who provide
this service even DARE to tell ous /how/ they will provide it! Workers,
you have the right to generate as much garbage as is humanly possible,
and have all of it hauled away! Make no mistake, the forces of
capitalist evil who spread propaganda about drowning in your own refuse
poison your minds and enslave you! The running dogs of the upper classes
who point out that trash collection is a service, just like any other,
and the people who priovide that service have the same right to dictate
the conditions under which they will perform it just as the people who
provide water can shut it off if you don't pay simply imprison you in
subservience to their own greedy, selfish desire for a clean world!
Workers, unite! Throw away your chains of oppression, and don't bother
to recycle them! We can always build more landfills!"
===========
From: THRUD
To: ALL
Subject: expotech
Date & Time: 07/22/90 07:02:48
Message Number 6633
>My personal favorite has to be Family Feud..
Eeeeeek! Please, no! To borrow a line from "Weird Al" Yankovic
"I'd rather clean all the tiolets in Grand Central Station with my
tongue than spend one more minute with you."
...it's late, and I can't spell toilets, but I do like pizza.
===========
From: MAX
To: NAME
Subject: definitions
Date & Time: 07/22/90 10:44:49
Message Number 6635
The point is living something and acting CONTRARY to it. The question
does arise how one is to come to the conclusion that the Biblle iks
truth (despite what most Christians think, it's far from self-evident),
but that's another story. An "impartial observer," however, would not
be terribly receptive to any argument about moral/immoral behavior that
referred to the Bible or said, in effect, "Action 'X' is immoral because
that is part of the way reality is, and our difference comes from the
fact that I understand the fundamental law of the universe on which this
is based and you do not." This is the philosophical basis for such
statements as, for example, "Homosexuality is morally wrong because it
violates God's law" (or a "first principle" or whatever one wants to
call it to avoid looking too Judeo-Christian).
===========
From: MAX
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Stuff
Date & Time: 07/22/90 10:50:44
Message Number 6636
I'm changing my handle to Max because I'd rather leave "Donthen" as the
name of the storyboard character alone. "Max" is a character, of sorts,
but he would be more an idealized version of me (and as a furry,
although the "idealized" part would be related to attitudes and
general outlook rather than possession of fur and a long tail).
Donthen the character is mostly likable in spite of himself. Max is
generally more easygoing and less irascible, although he will strongly
defend something he believes in (as would Donthen). At any rate, if
there's a choice between which one to be associated with in BBS users'
minds, I think I'd rather pick the mellow cat than the balding fat guy
with the cigar, even though he's a pretty fun character.
===========
From: MAX
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: relationships
Date & Time: 07/22/90 10:56:14
Message Number 6637
I don't know what's "normal" about it because I don't know what causes
it. (I also don't know what's abnormal about it, beyond the obvious
fact that it's deviant from society's norm.) I have met people who are
homosexual and bisexual who are, setting their sexual preference aside,
perfectly normal; if their "perversity" was truly a mental disease, it
would be quite likely to manifest itself in other ways. It doesn't.
As I've said before, I had similar attitudes as yours until I met
some of the "perverts" in question and couldn't really find any grounds
for treating them as sickos. To my utter amazement, several were very
interesting people, fascinating to talk to and generally people that I'd
like to be friends with (and in most of those cases, I am). If someone
had told me this was going to happen ahead of time, I wouldn't have
believed them and would probably have been offended; I probably can't
expect you to react in a substantially different manner.
Admittedly, I never tried to lump homosexuals in with child molesters
and rapists, either. Sorry, but I simply can't understand your reasons
for connecting them together except that ultimately they are all things
that you don't like. Homosexuality doesn't have any victims, and this
makes it qualitatively distinct from the "perversions" you keep bringing
up.
===========
From: MAX
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: censorship
Date & Time: 07/22/90 11:03:07
Message Number 6638
Nope, I never deleted any of your messages. The only message in that
entire chain I deleted was one to you, that flamed you up one side and{
down the other, for bringing things down to a level that I found
reprehensible. I deleted it before you read it because I thought it was
too strongly stated.
===========
From: RAVEN
To: KEN OBER
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/22/90 12:22:15
Message Number 6639
>Killing druggies is probably the only way to stop them using drugs
>totally
Wrong. Although it is the cheapest method, it is not moral, or even
socially acceptable.
Mandatory recycling of metal, glass, and paper products would go a long
way toward helping to save our resources. It is also a profit making
business. I know, I collected papers and metal and sold them to
recycling depots from the age of 9 to 11. I did not get into recycling
glass because of the volume necessiary (it is done by the barrel).
Mandatory recycling would (allowing for the inevitable ineficiency of
city governments) still be a self supporting venture.
Please keep your responses to the point knucklehead.
===========
From: RUFUS
To: THRUD
Subject: expotech
Date & Time: 07/22/90 14:32:09
Message Number 6640
>Anybody going to the Expotech...
Okay, just what is the Expotech?
>...interested in buying a copy on Mythagoras...
You can pick one up at the Time Machine in Bradenton. I don't know if
there are any in the possesion of Turtle or Max.
BTW, I found your polar bear wandering around my front yard. Lemme tell
ya, polar bear makes a darn good stir fry, with lots left over for a
polar bear sandwhich.
===========
From: BEATLE
To: RUFUS
Subject: expotech
Date & Time: 07/22/90 16:10:12
Message Number 6642
> What is expotech?
It's a two-day business show at the Robarts Arena during the week...
they have representatives from different computer/business companies.
They also have meetings you can attend such as "The usefullness of
Windows 3.0", but you need not attend if you wish to avoid being brain-
washed. Admission in general is free. I would be interested in just
dropping in to check it out if you or Ken Ober would like to a) go to it
and b) pick me up...
===========
From: KEN OBER
To: RAVEN
Subject: Marxism
Date & Time: 07/22/90 19:27:41
Message Number 6643
Mandatory recycling /would/ be socially unacceptable if we were not
living in a era where Marxism is socially acceptable.....May the
drafters of the Constitution frown apon you and your Marxist fiends
all around the world....
===========
From: KEN OBER
To: ALL
Subject: expotech
Date & Time: 07/22/90 19:29:45
Message Number 6644
Looks as if it will have an impressive Amiga display there....
===========
From: JONBOY
To: DONTHEN
Subject: Catholicism
Date & Time: 07/22/90 19:44:59
Message Number 6645
Oh wel... at least you weren't partial!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: RUFUS
Subject: Calling...
Date & Time: 07/22/90 19:46:52
Message Number 6646
YER welcome! If I find anymore stuff will deposit in the same
bottomless pit,,
===========
From: JONBOY
To: RUFUS
Subject: Earth?
Date & Time: 07/22/90 19:47:59
Message Number 6647
I always wanted the 64K from memotech - the one I really blew was
a guy up in Utah was selling the whole package including printer
(remember the 40 col termal printer?) for $35. I shoulda...
===========
From: JONBOY
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 19:56:00
Message Number 6648
No - I DON'T smoke - I quit - but it still bothers me that people
deprive smokers of THEIR rights. I'm a "religious" person in the
sense that I believe that Jesus died for the sins of mankind. I also
have been baptised which is one of the things Jesus asked us to do if
we would follow him.
Sorry to burst your bubble but I am neither judgemental or pitying
of anyone. Your a big boy/girl and the decision is ALL YOURS. My part
in the plan is to simply be informative to folks that I think desire
further knowledge. As far as figuring out whether they will go to
heaven or not - I have not the slightest idea or desire to know. That
is between them and God at the proper time.
Hard-rockers? I PLAY rock-n-roll and Van Halen has been known to
follow Def Leppard from my amp (much to the chagrin of the neighbors!).
Christian metal groups? The only one I can claim to have heard is
Stryper and they need a new lead vocalist. I admire them for taking
the stand that they have and it does not appear to be hype.
Too bad that you suffer from the same case of tunnel vision that
you claim the entire Judeo-Christian culture has...
===========
From: JONBOY
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:06:57
Message Number 6649
What does education have to do with being a hick? I have some kin-
folks that are as hillbilly as they come but I wouldn't care to get into
a debate with 'em!! Truth is their head is screwed on tighter than
mine when it comes to politics and ordinary living (like when do you
start worrying about frost and the harvest).
I have mucho college and education behind me with several kinds of
practical experience to back it up and I'll be the FIRST to tell you
that education is not the whole story.
As far as Damned Yankees goes - if they move here and try to come to
a compromise with the culture and heritage of the South - you are
welcome. If you want to come and bitch and make fun of our customs
(like being polite and hospitable) and say we "tawk funnah!". then
carry your ass back where you came from (tho I doubt they'd want you).
That's my bottom line anyway. The touristas that rape and pillage
on a yearly basis fall under this dictum also.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:15:26
Message Number 6650
What a brave stance! I get the impression that you object to the
implications of the word "worship". Are you really aware of what
the word means? Are you really so special that you bow to no one
and acknowledge no master? What a spectacular oversight you have there!
Look at the life you would lead in ANY country in the world. Tell me
that you don't have people running your life and controlling your
destiny. God at least promises eternal life for the simple act of
acknowledging His diety and accepting His terms (oh wow - really
tough stuff here - do unto others...) What is really your complaint?
===========
From: JONBOY
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Moral/Immoral/A
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:21:54
Message Number 6651
You're rich!!!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:23:53
Message Number 6652
I'll state for the record that no one has the right to judge anyone
for their sexual preferences. It would be a dangerous precident indeed
if we were to allow scrutiny of what goes on in the privacy of a
person's home. Ye Gads! Shades of Thought Police - you are a
dangerous person in your blind hatred of anything "different".
===========
From: JONBOY
To: ANGEL
Subject: misspelling
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:27:49
Message Number 6653
I think he ran out of room on the line...
A Graffittical JonBoy
===========
From: JONBOY
To: ANGEL
Subject: definition
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:29:10
Message Number 6654
But of course - and this is why they are classed as "cults" by
"mainstream" Christians - I mean all of 'em! They teach things that
cannot be backed up in the Bible and rely on "special" dispensations
and/or knowledge that can't be substantiated - thus the classification.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: BEATLE
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:32:28
Message Number 6655
That stuff is dance music - plain and simple - turn off brain , turn
on your gonads and hook 'em up to fibrillated feet - You got it!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: BEATLE
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:34:30
Message Number 6656
Now if they just don't ruin it with too many "special effects". That
ruined quad stereo - people got bored of hearing different instruments
from each speaker because it doesn't sound real.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: BEATLE
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:37:24
Message Number 6657
Whatever happened to getting a job so you could earn money for a bike
or car? What's your idea of "somewhere" around the block and a c
couple of miles down is somewhere - maybe you could/would/should
meet someone new and strike up a friendship. Maybe you could/should/
would (herinafter abbreviated CSW) strike up a healthy relationship
with Mudder Nature - she's a fascinating wench and full of surprises.
Maybe you CSW pick up a book on programming in a new language and learn
it and make yourself valuable. Above all - don't shortchange yourself.
A Waste-Not_Want_Not JonBoy
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:42:40
Message Number 6658
Damn! I KNEW there was a connection!!! I knew it! I had this
premonition when I dropped the books off! Hot Damn I KNEW there was
something nagging at the back of my brain. All thsi stime ITS CLEAR NOW
but what do we do about it?
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really somethin
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:44:28
Message Number 6659
Nahhh - Iceland is the most literate nation in the world (really!)
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Algorithms
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:45:14
Message Number 6660
sorry the algorithmn is:
WHILE(JudgementDay)
{
IF(NOT Saved)
THEN
HearExcuse;
IF(SAVED OR EXCUSED)
{
Person.Status := ANGEL;
ANGEL := ANGEL + HARP;
Procedure Teach_Sing(Person : ANGEL)
{
WHILE(DON'T_KNOW_HANDEL'S_MESSIAH)
Teach_Sing(ANGEL);
}
Turn_Angel_Loose;
GetNextAngel;
}
Stoke_Flames;
ThrowSinner(Real Far);
}
===========
From: JONBOY
To: CRYSTAL
Subject: Recycling
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:54:58
Message Number 6661
Whoami - ummmm lemmesee.... I Got It! You are that most common
of humans - I gotanopinion! Good thing too - it's a prerequisite
===========
From: JONBOY
To: CRYSTAL
Subject: Earth??!! Huh?
Date & Time: 07/22/90 20:56:43
Message Number 6662
I heard a guy in North Carolina got 10 years for that!!!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Gun Control
Date & Time: 07/22/90 21:11:37
Message Number 6663
And if the sky was green someone would have to mow it! See we can
all draw non-sequitars when we really want to!!!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: relationships
Date & Time: 07/22/90 21:13:19
Message Number 6664
Just out of curiosity - at what age do you consider it "proper" and no
longer child molestation? IE when is the female in question a woman.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TREE BEARD
Subject: express
Date & Time: 07/22/90 21:15:10
Message Number 6665
Glad to see ya back! Things haven't been dull. Hang in there with
the quit smoking - after 12 days it is no longer a physical craving
it is pure psychological. If you ain't in control of yer own brain then
who is? But seriously - it is a struggle -especially if you like to
smoke. I still get the urge or desire after almost a year now but I
ain't giving in!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Pop Quiz
Date & Time: 07/22/90 21:19:54
Message Number 6666
#1 - You can't throw the ball into the air on an airless world.
Next!
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really Immoral
Date & Time: 07/22/90 21:22:58
Message Number 6667
A real small detail is that people learn about society not only by
slowly participating in it - but also by observing it in action.
I would personally rather put out the message that it isn't necessary
or desirable to resort to foul language to be a)funny b)cool
or any other "side" effect of this nature. I tend to look on things
like this as an indicator of society as a whole and not as an isoltaed
(damned dyslectic keyboard) isolated instance. Bottom line is I feel
that society is going the wrong direction. People would rather be rude
than polite, people will opt for being percieved as "cool" even if it's
at someone elses expense - these are things that I see more and more of
every year and it concerns me. It manifests itself as simple things
like the bumperstickers. Can you thing of a good reason for them to
exist? (the ones that use foul language)
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Truth
Date & Time: 07/22/90 21:32:10
Message Number 6668
Kind of misleading there Turtle - what exactly DO the Koran, Bhagd-Vita
and the other documents claim?
AS far as the Bible's claim - yes it makes that claim and with the
many authors that it has had it maintains this stance throughout it's
entirety. It documents from the mists of the beginning to the shroud
covering the end of our world. It says what God's position is and
what man's options are with plenty of examples. By virtue of the FACT
it can be verified for historical accuracy - it is to be assumed that
the claim it makes for itself to be true within the framework of the
system that spawned it.
If I believe that Odin really is the top dog - then obviously I fall
outside the framework of the Bible. When the truth is finally unveiled
however, then we must answer for our beliefs.
===========
From: JONBOY
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really translit
Date & Time: 07/22/90 21:40:38
Message Number 6669
Ever see a poster called "The Last Great Act of Defiance"?
Hmmmmmmmm?
===========
From: BOB ARDREN
To: JONBOY
Subject: Age
Date & Time: 07/22/90 22:24:11
Message Number 6670
Getting old Jonboy?
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Really Immoral
Date & Time: 07/22/90 22:46:03
Message Number 6671
I can't help it...I have to agree with you once again.... Your reply to
JonBoy about the bumper sticker ban having no direct impact on society
was eloquent and well spoken. Do you often think out things like this
this easily?
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Bias in bias
Date & Time: 07/22/90 22:51:55
Message Number 6672
T> ...Are you equally biased against female homosexuality...?
You bet your ass. I think that is perverse, too. Just because I used
'Man on Man' doesn't mean that doesn't apply to 'butch on butch'.
Hmmm...why would you ask me that? I get the feeling that I am being
backed into a logical corner.
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: TURTLE
Subject: Moral/Relavancy
Date & Time: 07/22/90 22:56:09
Message Number 6673
Morality is determined by both worldwide opinion and local opinion.
While worldwide opinion may say that killing is immoral, local opinion
will override that simply because the local opinion is what counts.
"When in Rome..." and all that.
In a like way, perverse is also a matter of opinion. In Bummfuck,
Nebraska, I would be willing to bet that if you took a poll,
homoperversity would not be very popular, and therefore would probably
be considered VERY perverse. On the other hand, if you took a poll
in San Fagsisco, you would probably get a very different result, and
probably it would not be considered very perverse. (With all the fags
that live there, it would probably be considered the NORM.)
Now just because it was considered the norm there doesn't mean that
it can be considered the norm everywhere, and I
would like to point out that ther eare a lot of open minded people
on this board and a lot of others. (Usually people who are in the
computer community are slightly more intelligent and therefore given
to being more open minded.) Just because you find a lot of support here
does NOT mean that you will find as many people out there int he
real world who support it.
So, my point is this...perverse is a matter of opinion. The more
people who hold an opinion, the more "right" that opinion becomes. If
Hitler had won the war, what would we all think of Jews right NOW?
We might not even have to worry about it, but that's the way we
would think...the fact that we won was the only thing which makes us
realize that he was 'wrong'.
I'm trying to reiterate a point that I don't know how to get across...
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: BEATLE
Subject: standards
Date & Time: 07/22/90 23:24:38
Message Number 6674
B>Ever consider that because people like you don't accept homosexuals,
B>they are afraid to say that they are gay, and this causes a shortage o
B>people to have monogamous relationships with?
B>Just a thought.
And a scary one. But dubious. And moot, since they for all practical
purposes, don't exist. You are speculating.
And, ok. But my hypocracy was not the issue. We could make that the
issue, but it doesn't matter, since I will just admit it. The thing
was that there was a discrepancy between what Max advocates and what he
didn't. He criticized a hetro for something common among homos.
People who are friends with "People who live in glass houses..." and
all that.
(I wonder when I'll run out of tired cliche's?)
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: BEATLE
Subject: Moral/Relavancy
Date & Time: 07/22/90 23:32:52
Message Number 6675
TS>>...rape and molestation are not NORMAL.
B>...you have to convince others that being gay is not normal,...
Not too many people. I would be willing to bet that there are more
people out there than anyone here thinks who believe that homoperversity
is not normal.
"open" = "weak"
===========
From: RUFUS
To: BEATLE
Subject: expotech
Date & Time: 07/22/90 23:56:34
Message Number 6676
Whooaaaa boy, a two-day business show. I dunno if I can handle the
excitment, but sure I'd like to go. We can always harass Amelia Hudson
and get some of those neat free pens. I'll consult w/ Ken Ober. I need
to come up to Bradenton anyways to return issue three of "Invaders from
Home." They did my file from last week when I had already gotten my
stuff and I didn't look at the cover until I got home. Grrr...
===========
From: RUFUS
To: JONBOY
Subject: Calling...
Date & Time: 07/22/90 23:58:44
Message Number 6677
So far, three people besides Turtle and I have gotten stuff from the
box. I just hope I get it all back sometime. :)
===========
From: RUFUS
To: JONBOY
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/23/90 00:09:47
Message Number 6678
>Whatever happened to getting a job so you could earn money for a bike
>or car?
For Beatle, getting a job would be real hard unless he had a form of
transportation. The only places withing walking distance are the
Post Office and the Site (gas/mini-mart), and I doubt either one would
hire him. On the other points, he'll have to answer...
===========
From: TURTLE
To: MAX
Subject: Stuff
Date & Time: 07/23/90 00:47:35
Message Number 6680
>...I'd rather pick the mellow cat than the balding fat guy with the
>cigar...
Like you've really got a problem. How'd /you/ like to be associated with
a hyperactive reptile with a short attention span?
===========
From: TURTLE
To: RUFUS
Subject: Polar bear
Date & Time: 07/23/90 00:50:03
Message Number 6681
You had a polar bear stir fry and didn't invite me??? Rufus, that's
twice in a row now! See if I invite you over to share some of our
mountain lion next week.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Algorithms
Date & Time: 07/23/90 00:58:09
Message Number 6682
That algorythm for Judgement Day is truely one of the most amusing
things I have ever seen. It does lead rise to the interesting question,
though: Do angels ever sing anything /but/ the Messiah?
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Algorithms
Date & Time: 07/23/90 00:59:17
Message Number 6683
By the way, I do know how to spell "algorithm." I simply have a moral
objection to the conventional spelling.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Pop Quiz
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:00:34
Message Number 6684
Okay, okay, you can't throw a ball in the air on an airless world.
Let me restate: You throw a ball upward, away from the center of mass of
the world you're standing on.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Society & You
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:02:01
Message Number 6685
>I tend to look at things like this as an indicator of society as a
>whole...bottom line is I feel society is going in the wrong direction.
>People would rather be rude than polite...
That may be so, biut if that's the case then by prohibiting rude bumper
stickers aren't you simply treating the symptoms rather than the
problem? Of all the actions you can possibly take to improve society,
it would seem to me that prohibiting naughty words on bumper stickers
is just about the least effective--not only does that /not/ persuade
people that they WANT to be polite, which is the only way you're likely
to achieve the ends you're looking for, it imbues those particular words
with a sort of power or allure: "Hey, I'm not allowed to use these
words so they must be something pretty special, huh?" No, the bumper
stickers don't serve any particular purpose; bumper stickers in general,
along with designer jeans and a whole host of other modern accessories,
don't serve any particular purpose, Then again, this country wasn't
founded on the ideal of freedom of expression of that which has a
purpose;, just on freedom of /expression,/ and bumper stickers are
undeniably a form of expression.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Truth
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:09:39
Message Number 6686
Of COURSE the Bible maintains throughout its entirety that it's the
Word of God--to do otherwise would be fatal. If I'm writing a document
which I want people to accept as the Word of God, I'm going to claim
it's the Word of God regardless of what it actually is. As far as
historical accuracy, let's just say that the record in the Bible is
rather one-sided and somewhat overstated.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: JONBOY
Subject: Really translit
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:12:30
Message Number 6687
>Ever see a poster called "The Last Great Act of Defiance"?
Yes, as a matter of fact. Not the same thing. If I'm going to worship
a being that claims to be the essence of love, then I expect it to
behave according to those standards. I would not follow a political
figure who participated in wid-scale torture or genocide, even if that
person were to threaten me with execution; I would not participate in
an institution that practiced torture or murder, even if I could argue
that I was "just following orders." I feel that the deliberate,
everlasting torture of sapient beings is wrong, plain and simple. I
won't worship a divinity that does it.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Really easy
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:18:13
Message Number 6688
>Do you often think out things like this this easily?
Naah, I simply make it /look/ easy. You know, if we keep agreeing with
one another people are going to get the wrong idea...
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Bias in bias
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:19:35
Message Number 6689
>...why would you ask me that?
I've met quite a few people (all of them men, not surprisingly) who
believe very strongly that male homosexuality is wrong, despicable,
evil, etc, etc, but who see absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with
female homosexuality (or bisexuality). I simply wondered if you were
one of them, that's all.
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: Moral/Popular
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:22:16
Message Number 6690
Are you saying, then, that if worldwide opinion were suddenly to
shift in favor of accepting homosexuality as morally acceptable, you
would no longer find it unacceptable? That seems to be a kind of
strange view of morality; personally, I've never trusted the majority to
be able to decide on a president, much less something as complex as
a code of morality. The herd instinct seems like kind of a questionable
way to resolve complex or difficult problems. Of course, I could also as
what gives the majority the right (rather than the ability) to force
its views on the minority; if the majority would suddenly to start
making decisions about something equally as trivial as sexual prefer-
ence, like, say, food preference (eating eggplant is simply beyond the
pale!), would /it/ become MORALLY wrong???
===========
From: TURTLE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: standards
Date & Time: 07/23/90 01:28:44
Message Number 6691
>He criticised a hetero for something common among homos.
And criticises homos for it, too. The distinction here is that he is
not criticising heterosexuals for BEING heterosexuals, he's criticising
them for a lack of faith. Likewise, he's not criticising gays because
they are homosexuals, but because they are behaving in an unfaithful
fashion. Kind of like the difference between condemning a black because
he's black and condemning a black because he's just murdered sixty-two
people with an assault rifle and a potato peeler.
===========
From: RUFUS
To: TURTLE
Subject: Polar bear
Date & Time: 07/23/90 03:13:13
Message Number 6692
Hey, I'm having BBQ polar bear ribs next week and your all invited.
Maybe I'll make some Bambi Burgers, now those would be tasty.
===========
From: THRUD
To: RUFUS
Subject: Polar bear
Date & Time: 07/23/90 06:44:00
Message Number 6693
Methinks thee doth grow overhumorous with your sick, cannibalistic
tendencies. Polar bears are people too, ya know. How'd ya like to
have 800 kilos of snowy white fur on your chest, anyway?
The business shows I've been to have been 90% BS, but I like to check
out some of the new toys and hardware I've read about, and should be
able to afford in about ten years. Also the snack bar at Robarts
has great pickled herring, which Gjolp loves.
===========
From: XTEVE
To: ALL
Subject: EPSON$
Date & Time: 07/23/90 12:26:48
Message Number 6695
Howdy, I'm looking to acquire (buy) an epson printer to use with and old
CAD program which sticks up its nose at my okidata 182. Does anyone
have a nine pin (or a 24 pin!) which they are looking to sell?
.
Also does anyone know where to get enhancement software for an Epson so
I can get slow and beautiful resolution??
.
OR, does anyone know how to set dip switches on my Oki so the software
thinks it has an Epson...?
thanks for replying......Xteve
===========
From: SNAKEBYTE
To: THE SPECIALIST
Subject: HD
Date & Time: 07/23/90 12:46:17
Message Number 6696
Sorry for the long delay in getting back. I've been trying to get onto
ar for about a week or so with no luck. Found an old Racal-Vadic Modem
in with some cables at work and rigged it to work (supposed to be an
answer only unit, but 'not anymore'). So now I can screw around at break
and lunch, too. Oh yeah, back to the HD. It came out of an AT compatible
DELL system used for AutoCAD if that helps. And I desire to put it in
a 286-12 at home. Ooooops, yup, the seal has been broken and <oooooooh>
it has seen REAL air for about 5 seconds to please a friends curiosity
about the heads mechanically functioning. I'm in Bradenton, too. Very
east Bradenton.
===========
From: TREE BEARD
To: JONBOY
Subject: express
Date & Time: 07/23/90 14:49:26
Message Number 6699
No good arguements??? What is this world coming too? Well, it has been
3 weeks since I quit so, there should be no physical craving, and ther
is certainly fiscal benefits... But how I do love to smoke! But I am
Man, I am Steel, I am a wimp for anything to much on. I stick with it,
even though I gain a pound a week (an exageration I hope!)...
A Supreme Court filled with conservitive judges... Run for the
hills! A liberal a day helps keep commies at bay (any communist people
out there, I was just kidden and did not mean to be bigoted) But
really, The Supreme Court Needs to be balanced! They determine our
constitution, our lives.
Tree
===========
From: THE SPECIALIST
To: MAX
Subject: relationships
Date & Time: 07/23/90 17:31:56
Message Number 6700
M>...beyond the obvious fact that it's deviant from society's norm.
Thank you. That was all I needed to hear. I am sure that there are
good people out there who are fags, In the way of generally being
just helpful and easy to get a long with over all "good guys."
I don't understand how you can say that a mental defect MUST manifest
itself in another way besides the most obvious. I'm sure that there
are genuine loonys out there who are really nice people...until thier
"symptom" manifests itself.
And true, homosexuality has no victims to speak of (unless you count
AIDS victims, but I'm not), but that doesn't mean that it isn't
perverse! I believe that you gave a pretty good definition for
perverse above. "Deviant from society's norm."
===========