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Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 8 Num. 74
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("Quid coniuratio est?")
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GENE TATUM & TWO OTHERS -- JUNE 7, 1996
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My transcription of a conversation between Gene Tatum and two
others, identified here as "Andrew Dunn" and "Bob Irvin" (not
their real names.) This is an abbreviated transcription.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
ANDREW DUNN:
Your last communication with [Oliver] North, I think Nancy
[Tatum] told me was September of '94 or thereabouts. Right?
GENE TATUM:
Um-hmm. [affirmative]
ANDREW DUNN:
And it's interesting: when Nancy Reagan came out and was
hammering North during his Senate race, Bush was silent on it,
and I began to see a little bit of why.
In terms of the situation with [William] Colby: my view is, he
could have fallen off the boat (76 years old and so on). But do
you think he may have been "helped" in that? In terms of
concerns of him maybe talking?
GENE TATUM:
You know, when Colby would fly, he would always insist that
everyone have water wings on. (Army regulations didn't require
us to have water wings on.) One of his great fears was drowning.
The man would always, always, *always* wear water wings, life
jacket, Mae West....
Why wasn't he wearing them in that canoe?
ANDREW DUNN:
That's exactly what his wife always said too: "He never left the
house without the Mae West for the canoe."
GENE TATUM:
Now if it was with him (I don't know if it was left at the house
or what), but if he did have a heart attack my thought is,
perhaps he did take it off. With chest pains, you know. The
constriction, the feeling of claustrophobia and everything. But
they never found it.
ANDREW DUNN:
But you know the way a Mae West works: you've got the two ties
and then the one clip at the bottom.
I think that that's something where people were concerned he was
up in years, and maybe [he'd talk]. He was a consultant to a
group I know, out in Baltimore, that writes a market newsletter
called Strategic Investment. They have some kind of
right-of-center views and very negative comments about the
Clinton administration. Maybe he was getting a few more insights
there, as it relates to Jim Davidson who's the editor over there.
BOB IRVIN:
[Joins conversation] What's the status? What's your feeling?
Are you gonna be out sometime soon? Or are they going to try to
keep you under wraps?
GENE TATUM:
I think they're gonna try to hammer me. That's my own feeling.
I think, in speaking with my attorney, it looks like around 3
years. The sentencing isn't until August 28th.
[CN: Tatum is awaiting sentencing on a charge of "conspiracy to
embezzle." Bear in mind that undercover operatives sometimes get
neutralized by being railroaded under false charges. That way,
if they go public with what they know, they can be dismissed as
"not credible" due to having been convicted. Whether this is the
case with Tatum or not I leave it to the reader to decide.]
We're also getting ready to file a motion for acquittal, under
rule 29 of the federal rules, stating that they really didn't
prove anything. (Even though the jurors found us guilty, it
doesn't mean anything was proven.) That motion was made and not
ruled on, in the middle of the trial.
[CN: Regarding the covert Pegasus unit:]
Pegasus is not restricted to the United States. Pegasus has
agents and officers from around the world in it.
BOB IRVIN:
How about the situation with [Ross] Perot? What was the
circumstance as far as, who informed you, who was there, and so
forth?
GENE TATUM:
[Felix] Rodriguez was one. And Colby.
BOB IRVIN:
And where did that take place?
GENE TATUM:
It was in southeast Florida, at an annual meeting. Normally we
would hold meetings, update meetings, every year.
ANDREW DUNN:
Colby allegedly sold the Agency [CIA] down the river in '73,
during hearings.
BOB IRVIN:
That's the public perception.
ANDREW DUNN:
Right.
GENE TATUM:
I know what he told me about that. (And maybe you can check on
it. I never questioned him.) He told me that the lists and so
forth were turned in before he became Director of CIA. He simply
followed up on it and....
ANDREW DUNN:
He inherited it.
GENE TATUM:
That's right. He answered the questions that were asked, but
left a lot of questions unanswered.
ANDREW DUNN:
By the way, did you ever ask him about JFK? Out of curiosity?
GENE TATUM:
No.
ANDREW DUNN:
In terms of [George] Bush following him as DCIA [Director of CIA]
at the Agency, in terms of your assignments, did it seem like
they came from....
GENE TATUM:
Bush.
This goes beyond Bush.
ANDREW DUNN:
When you say it goes beyond Bush: Would it be another U.S., say,
"influential individual?"
GENE TATUM:
Oh yeah.
ANDREW DUNN:
Would it be a group, or were there any hints along those lines?
GENE TATUM:
It has to do with money.
ANDREW DUNN:
You know, in your letter to Colby you mention that these guys are
"running out of gas." And I'd love to agree with you. The
media... And here's, Clinton and his wife are up for at least 14
indictments the last time I checked. And I like to think that
Starr's doing a yeoman job there, as prosecutor. But as you know
from Iran-Contra, these guys typically have a tendency to bury
the bad stuff. And while we're hopeful that maybe there's some
changes underway, I'm just wondering: Do you really think that
Bush, North, and some of their lieutenants there really "ran out
of gas" or are [they] just "changing gears" a little bit here?
GENE TATUM:
I think they've got to change hills! [laughs]
ANDREW DUNN:
Because I tell you, another one we're gonna be dealing with in
not too many years is "George Junior" [Bush's son(s)]. We're
probably gonna have him in the 2004 race.
GENE TATUM:
I think that when we're ready and we release some more
information -- notes from the 1992 meeting?
ANDREW DUNN:
Right.
GENE TATUM:
The handout we were given, "Mission and Scope," and some
handwritten notes as to dates and so forth, that were target
dates for things to happen -- that will open some eyes.
ANDREW DUNN:
You also made a reference in that letter to "NWO" or the "New
World Order." And I'm just wondering: what kind of a master
plan they did have along those lines. I know Ollie [North] had
written some material for FEMA, years ago, back in '84.
GENE TATUM:
FEMA could be the genesis organization. Sure. If it falls in
line as FEMA being a portion of that.
It's based on your master planning, just as your planning
commission does master planning for a community.
BOB IRVIN:
I faxed some stuff to Nancy [Tatum] last night. Did she mention
it? Have you spoken about it?
GENE TATUM:
No I haven't.
BOB IRVIN:
You'll see in there some description of what transpired with this
fellow, "Chuck."
Chuck is a retired "Company" man. And he goes way, way back, to
the mid or early '50s. First, dealing with Fidel [Castro] as an
ally. And guess who was the paymaster on that?
GENE TATUM:
Felix? [Rodriguez]
BOB IRVIN:
No.... "Georgie" [Bush].
GENE TATUM:
No kidding?
BOB IRVIN:
Yep.
GENE TATUM:
I'm surprised he dirtied his hands there.
BOB IRVIN:
Well he dirtied his *pants* on one occasion. Because he wasn't
paying up, Chuck put a gun down his mouth and said, "Pay up, or
else." And he literally pissed in his pants.
Rodney Stich writes about Pegasus in [*Defrauding America*].
What was that? Counter-intelligence?
GENE TATUM:
Pegasus? I would say that Pegasus's current mission *includes*
counter-intelligence. It's the operational arm of what Bush is
shooting for the World Order. *With* the "drop dead date," guys.
BOB IRVIN:
Is that coming up near?
GENE TATUM:
In 1996, if certain things weren't accomplished, then things were
turned over to the operational arm to start accomplishing them.
The drop dead date is 2000. They plan to have the United Nations
taken over by then, and out of business for all practical
purposes.
ANDREW DUNN:
In terms of the United Nations taking over sovereignty of all the
other....
GENE TATUM:
No, I'm talking about taking over the mission of the United
Nations with another entity.
BOB IRVIN:
Rather than having it dispersed amongst Third World.... So it
would be First World running the game.
GENE TATUM:
Correct.
ANDREW DUNN:
In terms of '96 being pivotal: What, in terms of objectives. If
you can give some kind of a rough outline.
GENE TATUM:
I haven't looked at those notes for years and Nancy has them.
Certain countries needed to be aligned. I believe that Bush has
had to put a push on visiting those countries, working with them
and aligning them. He has major banks that he needed to have: I
know that he mentioned Citibank as one, as having to support him
in this effort.
BOB IRVIN:
Citibank is undergoing a major investigation right now. With the
[Carlos] Salinas deal.
GENE TATUM:
They were going to support his [Bush's] speaking tour. In '95 he
was going to hit the circuit and meet with world leaders. (I
don't know what's been going on with him.)
ANDREW DUNN:
A lot of this stuff is by the boards, as it relates to the
statute of limitations. You know, governments like Costa Rica (I
think it's Costa Rica) have a ban on [Oliver] North and "suspect
for dealing in drugs," and all this. There's a lot of
information out there. But believe it or not, this guy's got a
company that's gonna become public, probably in the next month or
so. He's got his own radio program. And nobody's called in to
ask about drugs, because I guess they've got some kind of a
buffer on the phone line, there's a delay on the phone [to censor
calls]. It's like these guys walk around unscathed.
And of course [Bill] Clinton. I don't know how much you've
followed this Whitewater thing: screwing around with some little
S&L and some bad property appraisals. And no one has had the
balls to step up to the plate and discuss what was really going
down. {1}. The Wall Street Journal is probably the only paper
in the country that's actually addressed some of these things.
---------------------------<< Notes >>---------------------------
{1} "...what was really going down." From USA Today, 8/5/96,
page 4A: "CIA Probes Arkansas Flights: CIA Director John Deutch
has ordered an internal review of his agency's reported
involvement in drug smuggling and gun-running out of a remote
Arkansas airstrip when President Clinton was governor there."
See USA Today for more details.
[...to be continued...]
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