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And the story Begins.....
From ulTRAX@webtv.net
To: Fonez@ca.tc
Subject: Re: rev0lt!
I have for at least the last year considered my self more an archivist
than an active hacker. In fact it was trying to keep up my site...
trying to build up that hacking knowledge-base, that ate up all my time.
Now I hang around in NG's and debate politics. LOL There are people out
there you should be talking to who know more than I. If you want I'll try
to hook you up.
[ Part 2: "signature" ]
IT'S A FRESH WIND THAT
BLOWS AGAINST THE EMPIRE
progressive NG WTV archive
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
I (cuebiz) am writting this in colaboration with a new edition to my buddy
list, Zack20. Say hi Zack, ("Errmm, Umm, Hi"). Okay, Zack doesn't have kids
but I do, so This introduction will be written by me (cuebiz).
- * Zack20: I DO have kids. Cuebiz just wants the spot light
As you all know, I've been having some fun with my TV, and gn0, I dont get
free porno movies. About two years ago, I carded myself a WebTv box and key-
board, with hopes of sparking an interest in my 2 year old daughter about the
internet (I've been trying to turn her into a computer geek since birth).
Just when I was about to give up and buy her a basketball, I overheard her say
that the internet was "cool". Now, at 4 yrs old, she's outgrown WebTv and has
advanced up to her own Sony P3 laptop (she mostly watches Dr.SuSe DVDs).
Anyways, I was then stuck with a WebTV box that I didn't need anymore. I've
used it back when I first got it and went through a phase where I would check
alt.webtv.hacking every single day, but, hey, I hadn't done it in about _two_
years and everything has changed with the "WebTV hacking scene" since then.
- * Zack20's note: Yeah me too.
I then thought to myself, "Hey, I wonder if there IS such a thing as WebTv
'hacking'? Maybe, maybe not, I _THOUGHT_ I was hacking back then, but is it
REALLY hacking? I dont remember. Hrmmm". I then remembered a person from a.d.
webtv.hacking whom supposedly 'MADE' the newsgroup, whos name was Ultrax. I
checked out Ultrax's page at Members.Tripod.com/~ULtrick and noticed that it
was still up with the same design from years ago (but with MORE infoz).
- * Zack20: I remember Ultrax.
Below are news clips that we've found about a WTV bug discovered in Jan '00:
- * Zack20: like, yeah. Fear our elite google.com skills!
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(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
Net4TV Voice has released a major update to this story (1/3/2000).
WebTV Security Breach:Hijack Code Can Forward Stored Mail
A WebTV "hack" code is being used to send mail from WebTV users'
boxes, without the users being aware of it. This code is being
embedded in some newsgroup posts, emails, and web pages. When a WebTV
user opens the post, email, or web page, it causes the user's WebTV to
send an email to an address embedded in the code, with a message that
also is included with the code. The action takes place 'behind the
scenes' (that is, users do not even see the mailbox sending mail on
the screen). WebTV is aware of the problem and is working on it. In a
December 21 posting to the webtv.users newsgroup, WNI Moderator stated:
From: wuapr@corp.webtv.net (moderator)
***Beware: Hacker Newsgroup***
Hi all,
We are having a problem with some of the users in the hacker
newsgroup "alt.discuss.webtv.hacking", so I wanted to make you
aware of what's happening.
Some users have created a code so that if you click on their post,
an email is sent to the WebTV abuse department from your email
address with very vulgar language.
Our engineers are diligently working to eliminate this bug, but in
the meantime please be careful. This newsgroup is known for
stirring up some trouble, so everybody should be alert if you
decide to access it.
-ck webtv.users moderator
webtv networks
Net4TV Voice has learned that, unfortunately, the knowledge of this
code and how to use it has spread outside the hacking groups and is
being used in other newsgroups, emails, and websites. Users who hit
codes that send email to WebTV's Abuse department will know when they
see the auto-response email from Abuse back to them. But those that
may send email to some other addressee may not even know that they
have sent it. If you have hit this code and your box has been used to
send an email to someone, you will find the email in your Sent Mail
folder. If there is no email in your Sent folder that wasn't sent by
you, then you have not hit this code. Even so, you'll want to check
your Sent folder at least every few days until the problem is fixed --
just because your box hasn't been hit yet doesn't mean that it won't
be. Remember that the mail is only in the Sent folder for a short
period of time, so you'll need to keep an eye on it. If you dp find
that your box has been used to send mail to someone without your
knowledge, you may wish to send another explanatory email to the
addressee and perhaps point them to this article for an explanation.
- What This Problem DOESN'T Affect
This problem only affects WebTV email -- it doesn't affect HotMail or
other third-party email that you may be using. It also doesn't mean
that people can get into your mailboxes or mess with your own received
mail; it is simply triggering your box to send an email in the background.
Net4TV is in communication with WebTV about this problem, and will post
an update as soon as we receive additional information, or are notified
by WebTV that the problem has been fixed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
WebTV To Patch Email Hole
by John Gartner
3:00 a.m. Jan. 4, 2000 PST
WebTV is working on a fix for a security hole that enables third
parties to send email from WebTV accounts.
Malicious programmers have been embedding the HTML of Web pages and
newsgroups with stealthy code that can force email accounts into
sending messages without the user's knowledge.
The security hole was first reported on Net4TV. The code is being used
to spam WebTV's abuse mailbox and could be used to send emails to
unsuspecting third parties.
On Tuesday, a WebTV spokeswoman acknowledged the security problem, and
said that the company was working on a software patch that would be
posted today.
WebTV users can determine if their email account has been compromised
by checking their "sent" folder for email and identifying anything
that does not look familiar, the WebTV spokeswoman said.
WebTV will update their server software to remove the vulnerability;
users will not have to download any additional software, according to
the company.
According to Laura Buddine of Iacta.com, the parent company of Net4TV,
the code was first made known to hackers in September, but has become
widespread during the last week.
"At this point, this code is all over the place," said Buddine.
The offending code has been placed on newsgroups that are accessible
only to WebTV users, as well as on hacker newsgroups such as
alt.discuss.webtv.hacking, according to Buddine.
She said the code was originally written by a WebTV employee but has
since turned into a tool for ne'er-do-wells.
"I could envision someone using it to get others in trouble by sending
death threats from other people's accounts," Buddine said.
Buddine said that she has received more than 10 emails from WebTV
users who claim to have had been affected.
WebTV said that the user impact has been minimal with only one user
reporting malicious mail being sent.
In addition to being able to generate email without the user's
knowledge, the code can be engineered to forward email from sent mail
or saved mail folders.
According to Buddine, a WebTV employee acknowledged the existence of
the security hole on 21 December, and posted a warning to WebTV users
not to visit the alt.discuss.webtv.hacking newsgroup because it would
cause erroneous messages to be sent to the WebTV abuse mailbox.
Buddine said that hours after Net4TV posted the story on Monday
detailing the hole, WebTV blocked the Net4TV mail servers from sending
email to WebTV users. WebTV posted the Net4TV IP address on the list
of spammers.
Buddine said email emanating from the Net4TV IP address was denied as
of 4 p.m. PST Monday. She said Net4TV's attorney sent an email to
WebTV early Tuesday, and their IP address was removed from the list
approximately 20 minutes later.
In September, Net4TV reported that WebTV email accounts that were full
would disclose subscriber and user ID information as part of an
automatic reply. WebTV subsequently fixed the problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Laura Buddine
January 2, 2000
UPDATE: WebTV Says Email Hijack Code Fixed
WebTV Networks is now reporting that the "email hijack code" that had
allowed malicious exploitation of users' email accounts and opened
their stored mail to prying eyes has now been fixed.
Updated Story Jan 6, 2000
Net4TV Voice has learned that the "hack" code that is being used to
send email from a WebTV user's box without the user's knowledge also
is being used to compromise the security of users' stored mail. The
code, which is being embedded in posts in WebTV's alt.discuss
newsgroups, emails and web pages, directs any WebTV box that loads the
page to send an email message to an address set in the code. The code
executes "in the background;" users who have sent the mail do not see
any indication of mail being sent, and only find out about it if they
receive a reply or look in their Sent Mail folders. Now, Net4TV Voice
has learned that the code has even more serious security implications.
It also has been used to forward email from users' own Sent Mail and
Saved Mail folders to an address set in the code. Although hackers
cannot directly see the email that a WebTV user has within his/her own
account, they can forward it out into their own email account on
another service, helping themselves to a user's private correspondence
and information. Net4TV Voice has been shown how this can be done, and
also has heard from one user whose email account has apparently been
violated.
Code Known At Least Since September
The basic email code that is the key to controlling a WebTV user's
mailbox has been known by some users since at least September, when it
was discussed in one of the WebTV hacking newsgroups. A number of the
frequenters of the group used the code to create "receipts" in their
mail so that they would receive a mailback when the email was opened
and read, or as a watch of their web pages so that they could see who
was surfing it. "It was not intended to be used for malicious
purposes," wrote one of the WebTV users who made use of the code. "Of
course, some with questionable intent got a hold of the code and used
it for other than the original purpose."
Mods Know About Code, But Customer Service, Abuse Don't Get It
Among other things, the code has been used to bombard WebTV's Abuse
Department with profane complaints, and to cause users to unknowingl
send nasty messages to others. One of the problems is that there is no
way within the email itself to prove that the box it came from did not
originate the email; one WebTV user has written to Net4TV Voice that
WebTV's Compliance Department is threatening her with termination for
"spamming," even though the email is being triggered by an email
containing the code that is in her box. On December 21, a moderator in
the official webtv.users newsgroup posted a warning that users should
not go into a hacking newsgroup because of the code. The warning,
which was published in Net4TV Voice's mid-issue story, User Alert:
WebTV Email 'Hack' Can Send Mail From Your Box, claimed that the code
itself was created by "some users." In fact, the code was created by
WebTV itself (as were all elements and codes in the WebTV software).
Net4TV Voice has since been advised that the code itself was
previously posted in webtv.users and was "slipped past the mods."
Often, the emails containing the code also contain another "no send"
code that prevents them from being forwarded or "bounced." This
prevents the trouble-making mail, post, or page from being forwarded
to WebTV Abuse as evidence. This has led to some ludicrously
frustrating exchanges with WebTV Customer Service in the WebTV Help
Center, which insists that they cannot do anything and that posts must
be forwarded to Abuse before action can be taken. WebTV user JaxRed
offered this example that he had received after he wrote to them
explaining the problem and that the posts had "no send" codes preventing
them from being forwarded:
Dear Customer,
Thank you for writing WebTV.
We understand your concern regarding this matter. However, this is
not an issue that the Customer Service Center, can help you with.
We apologize for the misunderstanding on our part regarding this
matter. However, this is a matter that you will to forward (sic)
on to Abuse@webtv.net. Abuse will look into this matter further for
you. Please forward any and all the information that you have
regarding this matter to Abuse@webtv.net. Please only forward this
matter once, as if this issue is forwarded more than once there is
a chance that this issue will be rejecked.(sic)
Another user, however, received a different response from the Customer
Service Center when she complained about a post made by a self-proclaimed
hacker:
Dear Customer,
Thank you for writing WebTV.
We are aware of this issue and are working on removing this person.
We do appreciate your feedback. I will pass this information along
for you.
Waiting for WebTV's Response
Net4TV Voice contacted WebTV Networks on Thursday in preparation for
this story, but were advised that because of the New Year's holiday,
they would be unable to respond until January 3. Although we declined
to hold the story to wait for their response, we will post an update
to the story when we receive it. However, Net4TV discussed the issue
with a former WebTV employee who was involved in the operation of the
WebTV servers. These were his comments:
WebTV's machines already filter certain content before sending it
along to our boxes. They call it transcoding. Essentially what
happens is they replace certain HTML with their own, mainly for
their own security but also for functionality in some cases. What
this means is that WebTV's machines already go through every line
of code, whether on a web page or in an e-mail or newsgroup post,
looking for the offending HTML and transcoding as necessary before
our boxes receive it. That's why I can't understand what's taking
them so long to fix this thing. It's probably easier said than done
but a quick solution would be to add this mail exploit code to the
list of code they're already filtering and be done with it, at
least until they can address the problem more thoroughly in a
future client build. That'd have to be done eventually because
there are certain situations where our boxes by-pass WebTV's
machines (and thus the transcoding) but in the meantime the
overwhelming majority of the problem would be solved.
WebTV's Security History
This is not the first time that codes that WebTV created for their own
purposes have either been leaked or discovered by users and used to
create security holes and "bombs." About eighteen months ago, WebTV's
email was actually hacked by a WebTV user, who was then trapped by a
"hacking contest" that got him to reveal how he had done it. The hack
was reported by the "trapper" to WebTV and that hole was closed. But
more holes remained, including some that had many WebTV users playing
"Doom" long before it was released (and only to DishPlayer users).
Last spring, some WebTV users found another code that could be used to
insert and rearrange Favorites folders in other users' boxes, while
the use of a WebTV code that could wipe out users' accounts (the
Amnesia Bomb) caused such problems that WebTV was forced to rush out a
browser update to stop it (Amnesia Bomb Halts Plus Update). The most
serious security breach was revealed in September, when Net4TV Voice
broke the story WebTV Spam Block Revealing User, Subscriber IDs. WebTV
tried to downplay the seriousness of the breach, claiming that nothing
could be done with the IDs even if they were revealed (not true --
with a user ID known, it was possible to terminate a user's account
remotely); WebTV's Customer Service department even sent email to
users in which they claimed that the Net4TV Voice story was "bogus"
and that Net4TV was working with spammers to get the maximum amount of
spam delivered to WebTV users. When confronted by CNet and ZDNet,
however, WebTV admitted the security breach was true but stated that
it had been fixed. Microsoft itself has also had its security
problems, with breach after breach in HotMail security finally causing
the company to announce that it was calling in an independent outside
auditor to review its security. Microsoft would not release the name
of the auditing company, stating only that it was one of the "big
five," but did admit that its biggest breach had been caused by a
string of code that hadn't been tested for security. When the flaw was
first revealed, Microsoft claimed that its security had been broken by
sophisticated hackers, armed with powerful software tools. In October,
Microsoft announced that Truste had OK'ed the security fix at HotMail.
Security and privacy are two areas of growing concern, as the U.S.
continues to use a "voluntary action" and "self-enforcement" approach
rather than the stringent protection of the individual's personal data
that the European (EC) countries require. The U.S. privacy laws are a
patchwork of state and federal laws, rules, and regulations that have
numerous loopholes, and as databases link up and make it easier to
create detailed profiles on any citizen, there is increasing call for
a general privacy policy to replace today's patchwork. WebTV itself
has also drawn fire because of its collection of user data; although
then-CEO Steve Perlman revealed in October 1998 that WebTV was
recording its users' activity on the Net and on TV (see WebTV Is
Watching You), it did not offer its users the ability to "opt out" of
being recorded until the HipHop upgrade in November, 1999, over one
year later. "It's not that I only don't trust WebTV not to sell
information they have on me," wrote one user to Net4TV Voice, "I don't
trust them not to just let it out accidentally because they didn't
lock the door. I'm beginning to wonder if they even care about
anyone's secrets except their own. I just traded up to a new WebTV
Plus and I used my son's credit card. He's got a different name and a
different billing address -- but they never even asked for anything
except a card number and an expiration date... it could have been
anyone's."
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(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
After reading that, you must think, "Whoa, just ONE little bug coded in
JavaScript, fucked up alot of shit", heh, actually, this is just a small
bit of what WebTv "hackers" could do. We've gotten in contact with two
from the WebTv hacking scene, LimDog, and Ultrax. Check out the interviews:
-- Interview with LimDog --
> Are you a dude or a chickie?
A dude.
> Do you masterbate often?
I'm guessing this magazine isn't quite mainstream.. heh.
>How old are you (you can exaggerate a little)?
35
> Do you have a web page?
I have a few still out there. I have a simple WebTV help page for WebTV
users interested in deleting their cookies and doing some beginning
exploring stuff. It can be found at http://angelfire.com/tv/limdog/1.html I
have another WebTV site that demonstrates how easily your screen name (i.e.
email address) can be manipulated by others. It is a message board format
that still works on most of the WebTV clients out there. It can be found at
http://tvboards.virtualave.net/
>Why did you get connected to WebTV in the first place?
The WebTV appliance is deceptively easy to use and cheap to buy. I paid $100
for my first unit and used a $10 wired keyboard.
>When did you first realize that you wanted to explore the WTV networks?
I had came across some html help sites that showcased some of the WebTV-only
html tags and I slowly got interested from there. I knew that you could view
your cookie list using someone else's trick, but it wasn't until the cookie
clearing command was guessed that I really became excited about manipulating
the WebTV unit.
> Describe your first encounter with the WebTV hacking community?
I started reading the news groups. It was there that I came across the first
cookie clearing tool. It was scripted by a user named Pac. When he was
exposed for using a force mail code on his tool I decided someone needed to
write a safe tool. So I wrote my first tool for public consumption.
>Do WebTV hackers have cons that they can go to?
??
>What kind of WebTV box do you own?
I own an old classic and a lucy (new plus)
>What can we do with a WebTV Classic?
plenty, but most of the really amazing stuff will get you terminated.
> What other types of WebTV boxes are there?
New Classic, Old Plus (w/hardrive), DishPlayers, UltimateTV... I am sure I
missed a few of the plus's..
>Have you read Revolt Issue one?
No
>What's the most annoying thing thats ever happened to you on the net?
This is more annoying than having your site deleted, or getting your email
jacked. I had downloaded an internal client that was intended to be used by
employees and previewers i believe. WebTV wouldn't TOS an internal build
back then because they knew you could easily get back online with it. I had
to repeatedly click past an "Upgrade Offered" screen to keep my special
internal build. I woke up one morning to see my dog step on the keyboard and
accept the "upgrade"! Apparently the dog had previously stepped on the
power-on button to get to the "Upgrade" screen. I tried to power off clear
the NVRAM, everything, but every time you powered back on it went to the
upgrade screen. I lost my favorite build, was subsequently TOS'd, thereby
losing the limdog email address.
> Should WebTV (WNI, whatever they're called) be afraid of you?
Not really. I rarely run amuck and at this time I have no plan of revealing
all the current security holes.
> Should they be threatened by the WebTV hacking scene?
Yes. But only a few people should really be interesting to them.
> In January of 2000, there was a bug that would send threatening email to
> abuse@WebTV.net. Its given alot of publicity to people in alt.discuss.WebTV.
> hacking, any comments on that?
There are alot of "tricks" we like to keep in our bag at all times. Force
mail is usually childs-play, but we still like to figure out how to do it
with every client they come up with.
>What is the most amazing thing that you are (or were) able to do with WebTV?
Me and a friend added and deleted users to each others boxes, and at the
time that was a huge accomplishment. I accidentally ended up in another
users mailbox back in 1999 and that flipped me out. The message board I
wrote that uses your WebTV email address is a pretty good trick. I was the
only one to do that.
> Do you program, if so, what language(s)?
html
javascript
perl
> Do you think you could kick Cuebiz's ass?
It's highly likely.
> Would you want to fight him at Defcon?
Is that a MUD? sorry... heh.
> Have you ever considered ditching WebTV and getting a computer?
Yes and you should too! Their terms of service allow them to read your email
and claim any intellectual property of yours they might find!! Plus your
account is perilously insecure, as are a myriad of personal info things.
> Where can every day hacker/phreakers find WebTV hackers on the net?
You can find alot of loudmouths in the news groups. I should know I used to
be one of them loudmouths.
> Do you fear Ultrax?
Of course not.
> why?
Ultrax is pro privacy. The only fear i have of him is if a good trick that I
worked on to do things like flash internal builds leaks out, and that trick
is abused, I feel like uLTRAX will point it out to corporate to get the
trick killed.
> Who would you consider "elite" in the WebTV hacking scene?
eric macdonald, virus omega, hacker reamer.
> Anything you want to include as a closing?
Yeah all you little bitches out there jacking my scripts know who you are!
LAMERS! And oh yeah, get a comp. WebTV wants to steal from you. Their
network is insecure because they made it that way to facilitate their theft
of your info. Limdog knows who you are, where you have been.......
-- Interview with Ultrax --
> How old are you (you can lie)?
Sure I can lie.... want me to? I'm 49, male.... and happy to report I
have all my teeth and hair. As for my mind.... who can tell. I've always
been a scatterbrain.
> If Male, don't you hate chicks who only dig intellectual guys?
Hell no!!! It's the good-looking ones who waste themselves on
brainless meatheads with no sense of humor that bug me. ;-)
> When did you start having an interest about the inner workings of WTV?
How did you first get into the "WebTV 'hacking' Scene?
I bought a WTV in summer 97 as a cheap way to hold off buying a new
PC.... I had access to the net before though a local university, but not
much of the web. When I did, I just got caught up in it for months. It
wasn't until January of 98 that I started paying attention to WTV
itself.
I had to replace a defective box and the WTV tech told me to get my SSID
using a "power-off code". That led me to the WTV NGs to look for more
code.... and that's where I first heard about DEMO and WTV-TRICKS.
Being considerably older than the kiddies there, I was also appalled by
their immaturity. Where I was dying to know what DEMO was...
essentially a fully functioning community account, they used it as a
shithole for voter fraud and to bomb others. WTV-TRICKS was a secretive
PW protected WTV site. Though everyone and their grandmother claimed to
have been inside, no one knew what was there.
By the end of the month I wrote a long report on DEMO and was trying to
organize the serious people. Organizing, cutting though the bullshit and
building up the WTV hacking infrastructure have always been important to
me. Another motivator was hearing in Febuary 98 that WTV made a deal
with Nielson TV ratings to steal TV Watching data from Plus boxes. If
true, I was determined to find a way to stop it.
> People have deemed you the one who "started" alt.discuss.webtv.hacking,
what do you have to say about that?
I proposed a.d.w.h in March 98 under the name "darkmatter'. I wanted to
distinguish it from all the "tricks & secrets" NGs. I had intended it to
be a more serious NG but any group named "hacking" was sure to attract
the kiddies who had just seen that terrible movie "Hackers". A month
later I created the privacy NG to reflect my other interest.
> In January of 2000, there was a "bug" that got people in
alt.discuss.webtv.hacking, especially you, fairly well known, who do you
think started exploiting this?"
I'm at a loss on this one. There was a "delete user code" going around
in Aug of 99. It was the result of WNI's incompetence. WNI used to give
away user ID's in returned mail reports. Worse: the delete user code did
NOT have to be sent anyone.... the code worked remotely!! I got zapped
about 8 times until Mattman realized only secondary users could be
deleted....
> Why don't you go out and get a computer?
I've had a PC since '87. First an Amiga, then a 486SX-33. All the later
was good for was basic net access and word processing. I own a business
and one aspect of that is video production.... and figured when I bought
a replacement PC it'd have to do video and other intensive tasks like
PhotoShop. But I have a LOT invested in current equipment.
Back in '87 what I wanted would have cost me $15K... not counting some
pricy software and video cards. So I bought WTV to stall for time. Since
then I have stalling down to a fine art..... But I've finally decided
that I won't go with Apple..... and even thou I hate intel, I'm looking
at P4's, mainly for how SSE2 can be used in video.
> What would you call the most interesting thing you've seen on the WTV
network?
I think it had to be either hacking accounts or the Great Tricks
Break-in of Aug 98. WTV never really recovered from what information we
got then. For the first time we had access to our IP service list....
which was invaluable in places like FLASH.. similar to DEMO, but with
access to additional IPs like the pre-registration and registration IPs.
We also got the URLs to return to TRICKS (WTV foolishly only PW
protected their index page)... and the knowledge how the box's build
controlled what service it would connect to.
Since we had URLs for "internal builds".... people were able to get back
into "testdrive".... WTV's test server. There we had access to all the
new features being tested. Some we could keep... like DOOM. Using the
IP:port/file method we were able to access TRICKS sites on other WTV
nets for months.
> Describe your definition of a "WebTV Hacker".
I see hacking as a generic term... someone who gets a system to perform
in ways NOT intended by its designers. Therefore it needs an
adjective... "PC hacker" or "WTV hacker".
> If two monkeys ran away from the zoo, and you saw them, would you try
to stop them and bring them back?
Hell no! Patty Hurst and I are secret members of the Simian Liberation
Army. If they got free, it's probably because a SLA cell set them free.
God Speed Cocco!
> Has there been any busts/raids/etc on specific WebTV hackers?
WTV has been cracking down on hackers for years. Mattman and Boneham1
were TOSed back in spring 99. WTV conducted a massive crackdown last
fall when they introduced wtv-tokens. They were 32 bit encrypted codes
added to each fetch request. They were made up of a box's SSID, its
service, and the URL it was trying to access. With tokens.... WTV could
do a quick cross check to see if anyone was trying to access a URL
manually from an "accessor", or if an unauthorized box was accessing a
restricted sub-net like Testdrive.
> Would WNI have anything to be afraid of?
Hell yes. Some hackers working with the old Classic have access to a
connection utility that allowed them to connect to WNI's sub-networks...
even the Japanese service. People working with the Viewer.... WTV's
emulator for PC developers have also penetrated the system plus a whole
lot more such as being able to unTOS a box.
> Do you have any suspicion that alt.discuss.webtv.hacking is not only
being monitored by the authorities, but that a portion of the people
come in claiming to be "WebTV Hackers" are in actuality, people from
WNI, trying to get 0day infoz?
If WNI wanted to they could just monitor or log what we do on-line. One
mole tried to write me back in fall 98. He was SO suspicious that I
directly asked him if he was a corpie. Some corpies post as corpies.
I have had some contacts with corpies.... most are OK and I consider it
a friendly rivalry. I've never been out to screw anyone over. Knowing a
system could be broken has generally been enough for me.
There's always been a balance between wanting to explore in a
responsible way, and knowing that same knowledge can be abused to screw
someone over.
If I see a security hole with potential for abuse, and I know the
information is about to get into the wrong hands, I would probably act
to see the hole closed. Part of it's principle.... but also for a very
selfish reason. There's NEVER been a code or hacking technique that has
NOT been abused to harm someone. Most likely I would be the first person
alot of immature pukes would go after. I'm no great lover of WNI which
I think is a pretty dispicable company. I created a site to bash them:
http://webtvexposed.tripod.com
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
We were supposed to get in contact with dozens more, but unfortunatly, we
were running really low on time and by the looks of it, we'd have a better
chance getting Jericho from Attrition.org then some of these "elite" webtv
hacker dudes (heh). Oh, And Zack20 still hasn't contacted LimDog through MSN
Instant Messenger (dammit Zack20!). In closing, fjear ... just... (( FEAR! ))
- Cuebiz -- Fonez@ca.tc -- t1s.8k.com
and
- Zack20 -- Zack20@hushmail.com -- (no webpage)
NO CARRIER