💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-06-07.txt captured on 2021-12-17 at 13:26:06.
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[2021-06-07T13:10:57Z] <dilyn> are you linking against their library? [2021-06-07T13:11:10Z] <dilyn> or just saying 'ah this function is pretty similar to what I need, I can tweak this' [2021-06-07T13:11:33Z] <dilyn> the former, it's gpl. the latter, it's... *probably* not [2021-06-07T13:12:03Z] <dilyn> it has to be sufficiently different to not just be 'the same code' [2021-06-07T13:13:59Z] <testuser[m]1> dilyn: i mean their project uses libfoo, i want to use libfoo, i check their usage of 1-2 functions of libfoo and end up doing something that's almost the same (just 5-10 lines tho) [2021-06-07T13:15:37Z] <testuser[m]1> So you can say 10 lines duplicated from their code [2021-06-07T13:15:48Z] <dilyn> are those functions related to documented usage of libfoo? [2021-06-07T13:15:59Z] <dilyn> you're probably fine [2021-06-07T13:16:59Z] <dilyn> if the fsf wants to weaponize their legal bullion to annihilate you over 10 lines of code, you can just mark that code as GPL :v the rest of your stuff can be MIT and then when you get around to replacing it you'll be free from their bollucks [2021-06-07T13:18:33Z] <testuser[m]1> Cool [2021-06-07T13:18:33Z] <testuser[m]1> Thanks [2021-06-07T13:30:42Z] <kiedtl> matrix says goodbye [2021-06-07T13:31:31Z] <acheam> its been doing that a lot recently [2021-06-07T14:53:22Z] <riteo> hii! [2021-06-07T14:55:12Z] <zenomat> Hey [2021-06-07T15:12:54Z] <acheam> does anybody have reccomendations on how I should name/version my lariza fork? It's diverging a bit now, and I don't want to tread on lariza's namespace / have 2 projects with the same name, but the versions of the same number have different features, etc [2021-06-07T15:13:22Z] <riteo> usually when I fork something that's still that I just change the namespace to start with my own [2021-06-07T15:13:42Z] <riteo> like, for my godot fork I just changed the namespace from org.godotengine.godot to it.riteo.godot [2021-06-07T15:14:02Z] <acheam> welcome back testuser[m] [2021-06-07T15:14:11Z] <acheam> looks like matrix is coming back online [2021-06-07T15:14:17Z] <riteo> nice [2021-06-07T15:21:20Z] <riteo> acheam regarding that project is the issue with namespaces or with the project name itself? [2021-06-07T15:23:02Z] <riteo> cause if you want to make a new name you can try asking a german person to make a quirky phrase, add ++ to it or simply name it something that sounds like that (for example chorizo) [2021-06-07T15:23:18Z] <riteo> for some reason I prefer chorizo [2021-06-07T15:24:24Z] <omanom> use "larizb" duh [2021-06-07T15:24:34Z] <riteo> lmao [2021-06-07T15:33:05Z] <acheam> riteo: project name itself, I used namespace incorrectly in my original message [2021-06-07T15:33:19Z] <acheam> i like chorizo [2021-06-07T15:33:26Z] <riteo> yes [2021-06-07T15:33:27Z] <acheam> now I just need to backronym it lol [2021-06-07T15:33:36Z] <riteo> great idea! [2021-06-07T15:33:57Z] <acheam> chunky ordered riteo's ingenuity zonks orangutangs [2021-06-07T15:34:09Z] <riteo> orngutangs [2021-06-07T15:34:11Z] <riteo> orangutangs [2021-06-07T15:34:20Z] <riteo> I think we found a new word of the day [2021-06-07T15:35:53Z] <riteo> yes [2021-06-07T15:35:57Z] <omanom> not gonna lie, i'll miss perntium [2021-06-07T15:36:07Z] <riteo> I agree [2021-06-07T15:36:12Z] <riteo> but we have to go on [2021-06-07T15:37:38Z] <riteo> but before doing that, one minute of silence for it: https://0x0.st/-2nU.png [2021-06-07T15:38:07Z] <acheam> lol [2021-06-07T15:38:39Z] <riteo> ok, orangutangs time [2021-06-07T15:41:10Z] <acheam> woah my lariza fork is 4th in search results for "lariza browser" [2021-06-07T15:41:10Z] <acheam> which is odd given its ony a few days old [2021-06-07T15:41:10Z] <acheam> sr.ht has really good SEO for some reason [2021-06-07T15:41:45Z] <riteo> based and devaultpilled [2021-06-07T15:42:01Z] <acheam> yes. [2021-06-07T15:42:05Z] <kiedtl> acheam: possibly the lightweight website? doesn't google value websites that are lightweight/fast-loading? [2021-06-07T15:42:21Z] <riteo> I didn't know google did that [2021-06-07T15:42:32Z] <acheam> kiedtl: maybe [2021-06-07T15:42:43Z] <acheam> i'd guess its also incredibly easy to parse stuff from [2021-06-07T15:42:45Z] <kiedtl> if so, it's ...ironic, given the state of google's websites [2021-06-07T15:42:50Z] <riteo> lmao [2021-06-07T15:43:02Z] <acheam> nonono you see, if you use AMP, all those prroblems go away!! [2021-06-07T15:43:19Z] <riteo> probably sr.ht is one of the few websites properly using HTML [2021-06-07T15:43:31Z] <acheam> its chunky though [2021-06-07T15:43:37Z] <acheam> the CSS is massive [2021-06-07T15:43:52Z] <riteo> yeah [2021-06-07T15:43:53Z] <acheam> and page weight is higher than you'd expect [2021-06-07T15:43:59Z] <riteo> that's what I mean [2021-06-07T15:44:08Z] <riteo> HTML pages are supposed to be chunky IMO [2021-06-07T15:44:32Z] <acheam> its 150kb uncompressed / 32kb compressed for just a readme page [2021-06-07T15:44:47Z] <riteo> I mean, it could be worse [2021-06-07T15:45:02Z] <acheam> github is 1.67 MB lol [2021-06-07T15:45:08Z] <riteo> lmao [2021-06-07T15:45:11Z] <acheam> and i'm blocking a few JS files from loading in [2021-06-07T15:45:12Z] * kiedtl sighs [2021-06-07T15:45:41Z] <riteo> reminded me of this: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/average-webpage-now-size-original-doom/ [2021-06-07T15:45:48Z] <acheam> ye lol [2021-06-07T15:45:56Z] <acheam> how does structured text take up that much space [2021-06-07T15:46:16Z] <riteo> you know what [2021-06-07T15:46:19Z] <riteo> I seriously don't know [2021-06-07T15:46:23Z] <riteo> frameworks maybe? [2021-06-07T15:46:36Z] <acheam> lots of JS stuff [2021-06-07T15:46:58Z] <riteo> oh right [2021-06-07T15:47:38Z] <riteo> if people wanted a way of running arbitrary programs in a sandbox why not stick to something like Java? [2021-06-07T15:47:46Z] <riteo> JS has been abused way too much, let it die [2021-06-07T15:47:51Z] <acheam> omg [2021-06-07T15:48:00Z] <acheam> my workplace's website is 17.38MB [2021-06-07T15:48:04Z] <riteo> BRUH [2021-06-07T15:48:12Z] <riteo> time to measure it in DOOMs [2021-06-07T15:48:14Z] <testuser[m]1> Workplace ? [2021-06-07T15:48:22Z] <acheam> employer [2021-06-07T15:48:53Z] <kiedtl> >time to measure it in DOOMs [2021-06-07T15:48:54Z] <acheam> the worst thing is that they had this great old website [2021-06-07T15:48:59Z] <kiedtl> You know, that's something I'll actually do [2021-06-07T15:49:00Z] <acheam> then they replaced it with this abomination [2021-06-07T15:49:11Z] <riteo> your worklpace's website is ~7.43 DOOMs [2021-06-07T15:49:23Z] <kiedtl> acheam: but the old one wasn't Modern:tm: and Slick:r: [2021-06-07T15:49:28Z] <riteo> this is ridicolous lmao [2021-06-07T15:49:48Z] <acheam> community-boating.org if you want to make fun of it [2021-06-07T15:50:32Z] <riteo> why does it need all that js [2021-06-07T15:50:51Z] <testuser[m]1> Conjoom [2021-06-07T15:53:41Z] <testuser[m]1> Lol the site is actually pretty bad compared to other ones I've seen, not a single button can be clicked without js [2021-06-07T15:54:14Z] <riteo> I'm pretty sure it could all be done in CSS and HTML5 [2021-06-07T15:54:17Z] <acheam> yes. [2021-06-07T15:54:18Z] <testuser[m]1> Why don't you propose a change acheam [2021-06-07T15:54:37Z] <schillingklaus> this kind of sites needs to be boycotted with fire and sword, rigorously at any cost [2021-06-07T15:54:46Z] <acheam> beacuse they spent a ton of money getting this one made, and they're really proud of it [2021-06-07T15:54:55Z] <testuser[m]1> Lol [2021-06-07T15:54:58Z] <acheam> i'm also not really in a position to do that [2021-06-07T15:55:25Z] <riteo> this feels like it was made with a builder [2021-06-07T15:55:36Z] <riteo> look at the sponsor thing, it has non functioning arrows [2021-06-07T15:55:42Z] <acheam> the guy was paid per the megabyte [2021-06-07T15:55:51Z] <riteo> If they spent a lot of money for it they got scammed [2021-06-07T15:55:58Z] <riteo> he was paid per WHAT [2021-06-07T15:56:14Z] <acheam> /s [2021-06-07T15:56:16Z] <testuser[m]1> The social media icons also have an out of place brown backgrpumd [2021-06-07T15:56:26Z] <riteo> acheam I seriously believed that [2021-06-07T15:56:27Z] <acheam> backgrpmud [2021-06-07T15:56:41Z] <riteo> backgrpmud [2021-06-07T15:57:38Z] <riteo> I feel like we should have waited for the word of the day [2021-06-07T15:58:33Z] <lastchansen> Hi guys. Quick question. I want to build htop, and it shows up when I search for htop in community but when I try to build it, I get a message saying it's not in any of my repos. [2021-06-07T15:58:46Z] <acheam> your KISS_PATH might be set wrong [2021-06-07T15:58:49Z] <lastchansen> I just checked my .profile which lists the correct path. [2021-06-07T15:58:55Z] <acheam> hmm [2021-06-07T15:58:58Z] <lastchansen> yeah.. [2021-06-07T15:59:02Z] <acheam> can you verify by echo $KISS_PATH [2021-06-07T15:59:03Z] <riteo> have you echoed it? [2021-06-07T15:59:08Z] <acheam> maybe the file isn't sourced or something [2021-06-07T15:59:16Z] <lastchansen> I'll just check again. [2021-06-07T15:59:36Z] <lastchansen> yup.. still there [2021-06-07T16:00:07Z] <lastchansen> the error is: "package not found" and "Version file not found". [2021-06-07T16:00:24Z] <lastchansen> I checked the package in the repo and there is a Version-file. [2021-06-07T16:00:47Z] <lastchansen> I get this error on some packages, but not all [2021-06-07T16:01:49Z] <acheam> can you build other packages in community [2021-06-07T16:02:07Z] <lastchansen> yup. [2021-06-07T16:02:16Z] <lastchansen> I just tried with micro [2021-06-07T16:02:28Z] <lastchansen> its currently building. [2021-06-07T16:02:42Z] <lastchansen> or.. it failed because of go, but still :) [2021-06-07T16:03:11Z] <lastchansen> failed to download yadayada 16.4.src.tar.gz [2021-06-07T16:03:27Z] <acheam> hmm, I cannot reproduce [2021-06-07T16:03:40Z] <acheam> can you cd into the htop folder within the community repo and "kiss b" [2021-06-07T16:03:41Z] <lastchansen> arh.. ffs [2021-06-07T16:04:41Z] <lastchansen> yeah, if I im /var/db/repos/community/community/ I can build htop, but it still fails because of autoconf-2.71.tar.gz [2021-06-07T16:04:59Z] <lastchansen> failed to download. [2021-06-07T16:05:37Z] <acheam> can't reproduce [2021-06-07T16:05:41Z] <acheam> I can download it fine [2021-06-07T16:05:43Z] <lastchansen> I did an update about 10 mins ago, but I should I git pull the repos? [2021-06-07T16:05:54Z] <acheam> no, 'kiss u' will pull them for you [2021-06-07T16:06:00Z] <lastchansen> hmm.. [2021-06-07T16:06:15Z] <acheam> can you visit ftp.gnu.org in a web browser? [2021-06-07T16:06:35Z] <acheam> but there are 3 seperate issues here, and they all seem to just be on your end [2021-06-07T16:06:40Z] <acheam> well, idk about the golang one [2021-06-07T16:06:43Z] <lastchansen> I'm currently in tty. Will try again later. [2021-06-07T16:06:44Z] <acheam> but the other two [2021-06-07T16:06:57Z] <lastchansen> Yeah, I'm pretty sure they are on my end :) [2021-06-07T16:07:01Z] <acheam> can you just curl https://ftp.gnu.org [2021-06-07T16:07:43Z] <lastchansen> arh.. yeah, it's totally on my end. Cant resolve host. [2021-06-07T16:08:22Z] <acheam> can you resolve other hosts? [2021-06-07T16:09:03Z] <lastchansen> No.. I have set up a pihole and there seems to be some issues with my ip. [2021-06-07T16:09:18Z] <lastchansen> Thanks :) Ive got some stuff to go on. [2021-06-07T16:09:25Z] <acheam> have fun [2021-06-07T16:09:27Z] <lastchansen> work with [2021-06-07T16:09:31Z] <lastchansen> hehe :) thanks [2021-06-07T16:09:37Z] <acheam> doesn't explain the htop not being found issue though [2021-06-07T16:10:12Z] <lastchansen> I'll figure out the other stuff and see what happens :) [2021-06-07T16:10:16Z] <riteo> maybe it's just like, a generic error? [2021-06-07T16:10:28Z] <riteo> like, not parsing it correctly it ultimately says that it doesn't exist? [2021-06-07T16:10:34Z] <acheam> no an internet failure would not cause a package not found error [2021-06-07T16:10:44Z] <lastchansen> riteo: more likely a user error. Kiss Linux is a bit more advanced than I'm used to [2021-06-07T16:10:47Z] <acheam> it would find the package, and then curl would err [2021-06-07T16:10:53Z] <riteo> right [2021-06-07T16:11:04Z] <riteo> well, lastchansen tell us how it goes! [2021-06-07T16:11:10Z] <lastchansen> riteo: sure thing :) [2021-06-07T16:11:17Z] <lastchansen> thanks for the feedback [2021-06-07T16:12:35Z] <riteo> ugh it's taking way too much for gpu prices to fall again [2021-06-07T16:12:53Z] <riteo> I'm really tempted to run kiss with nvidia drivers, but my autistic ass is really against that [2021-06-07T16:13:33Z] <riteo> I think I'll do it on that cool panasonic laptop that I'll get soon [2021-06-07T16:14:04Z] <riteo> you see, it's actually possible to run nvidia drivers on musl and I've got it to work (at least partially) too, but for ethical reasons I really don't want to continue that project [2021-06-07T16:15:23Z] <kqz> amd and intel makes things so much easier [2021-06-07T16:17:08Z] <riteo> too bad that now a radeon rx 5500 with 8gb VRAM costs $700 [2021-06-07T16:17:10Z] <lastchansen> riteo acheam: okay.. I didn't even have an IP. I forgot to start dhcpcd. I'll go hide in a corner. [2021-06-07T16:17:25Z] <riteo> no worries [2021-06-07T16:17:32Z] <acheam> hehe, happens to the best of us [2021-06-07T16:17:37Z] <acheam> networking is a nightmare [2021-06-07T16:17:39Z] <lastchansen> how are services managed in KISS? [2021-06-07T16:17:58Z] <kqz> with busybox's runit by default [2021-06-07T16:18:06Z] <lastchansen> okay.. thanks :) [2021-06-07T16:18:08Z] <acheam> https://k1sslinux.org/wiki/init/busybox [2021-06-07T16:18:22Z] <lastchansen> Great :) Thanks! [2021-06-07T16:24:20Z] <ang> lastchansen, could it be a problem with permissions? [2021-06-07T16:27:02Z] <testuser[m]1> riteo: how ? I got it working but you need to link all gui programs against glibc to open libGL so no use [2021-06-07T16:27:44Z] <testuser[m]1> So pretty much 2 packages for everything [2021-06-07T16:29:30Z] <lastchansen> ang: I got it working :) I just needed to start dhcpcd [2021-06-07T16:30:28Z] <ang> I meant re: package not found [2021-06-07T16:30:52Z] <lastchansen> ang: worked when I had an ip :) [2021-06-07T16:31:02Z] <ang> weird, ok [2021-06-07T16:31:03Z] <lastchansen> ang: htop is now installed. [2021-06-07T16:31:43Z] <ang> alright, nice [2021-06-07T16:31:46Z] <lastchansen> :) [2021-06-07T16:35:21Z] <ang> just because your KISS_PATH kinda suggests it - I hope you are not building as root [2021-06-07T16:37:34Z] <lastchansen> dont worry :) building as user [2021-06-07T16:38:40Z] <testuser[m]1> Nice [2021-06-07T16:38:50Z] <lastchansen> I just thought it made more sense to have the repos in /var/db/repos/ than in my $HOME [2021-06-07T16:38:55Z] <lastchansen> it* [2021-06-07T16:39:12Z] <lastchansen> -it* [2021-06-07T16:39:17Z] <ang> yeah why not [2021-06-07T16:50:38Z] <riteo> testuser[m]1: with gcompat [2021-06-07T16:51:08Z] <testuser[m]1> It provides enough stuff to run them ? Didn't know [2021-06-07T16:51:17Z] <riteo> I never actually tested it to that point [2021-06-07T16:51:19Z] <riteo> but i3 worked [2021-06-07T16:51:43Z] <testuser[m]1> If the library loads then it found all the symbols atleast [2021-06-07T16:51:47Z] <riteo> afaik gcompat should implement the most common symbols [2021-06-07T16:52:45Z] <riteo> if i3 worked it loaded that lib, right? [2021-06-07T16:54:00Z] <riteo> I think I understand what you mean [2021-06-07T16:54:09Z] <riteo> IIRC it wasn't *that* easy to run them [2021-06-07T16:54:26Z] <riteo> I had to modify gcompat a little and really rub it into xorg [2021-06-07T16:54:33Z] <acheam> okay, officially renamed lariza to chorizo, thanks riteo [2021-06-07T16:54:43Z] <riteo> yes [2021-06-07T16:55:07Z] <riteo> I love how literally my most instictive and random thought turned out to be the best choice [2021-06-07T16:55:16Z] <riteo> it was literally the first thing I thought [2021-06-07T16:55:34Z] <acheam> you have good instincs [2021-06-07T16:55:48Z] <riteo> cool [2021-06-07T16:59:44Z] <testuser[m]1> <riteo "if i3 worked it loaded that lib,"> Nvidia libs would need all glibc symbols before being able to load [2021-06-07T17:03:53Z] <testuser[m]1> Hmm I'll check it out [2021-06-07T17:06:41Z] <riteo> you'll surely miss some symbols though testuser[m]1 [2021-06-07T17:06:58Z] <riteo> I remember having to patch some in [2021-06-07T17:07:14Z] <riteo> they were basically all wrappers to other functions IIRC, I could see them from the manual [2021-06-07T17:07:36Z] <riteo> like, a weird linux desktop specification thing IIRC [2021-06-07T17:08:58Z] <riteo> no ok I might have no idea where this code comes from [2021-06-07T17:11:28Z] <riteo> I think I'll have to rewite everything since this code might as well be non MIT [2021-06-07T17:12:03Z] <testuser[m]1> You mean you manually copied in some functions into gcompat source ? [2021-06-07T17:12:13Z] <riteo> I have no idea [2021-06-07T17:12:20Z] <riteo> I recall not wanting to do that, but that may be the case [2021-06-07T17:12:31Z] <riteo> although as I said i really didn't want to mess up the license [2021-06-07T17:12:43Z] <riteo> so now I'm really confused [2021-06-07T17:13:17Z] <riteo> anyways if you want to I can finish my project and properly support nvidia on kiss linux [2021-06-07T17:13:30Z] <riteo> I mean, if someone really wants it it's unavoidable [2021-06-07T17:13:46Z] <testuser[m]1> Do you have it public somewhere ? [2021-06-07T17:13:50Z] <riteo> no [2021-06-07T17:14:05Z] <riteo> and I'm not willing to share these patches since they might be non MIT [2021-06-07T17:14:17Z] <riteo> it's really really basic code though [2021-06-07T17:14:29Z] <testuser[m]1> Cool [2021-06-07T17:14:33Z] <riteo> but I'm going to write it from scratch and properly add all symbols at this point [2021-06-07T17:15:01Z] <riteo> it's decided, nvidia will be supported on kiss linux, but only because gpus cost way too much rn [2021-06-07T17:15:13Z] <riteo> and by supported I mean that it'll work [2021-06-07T17:16:25Z] <noocsharp> why not just use nouveau? [2021-06-07T17:16:29Z] <noocsharp> unless you're gaming or something [2021-06-07T17:17:02Z] <testuser[m]1> Bad screen tearing, compositor doesn't fix it [2021-06-07T17:17:08Z] <riteo> and gaming [2021-06-07T17:17:32Z] <testuser[m]1> And if you try to run wayland even keystrokes lag by 4 seconds [2021-06-07T17:17:57Z] <noocsharp> hmm, well good luck [2021-06-07T17:18:14Z] <schillingklaus> decent games do not need nvidia [2021-06-07T17:18:16Z] <riteo> it's time to spin kiss linux and reboot like 23049823098564908 times because video drivers [2021-06-07T17:18:51Z] <riteo> oh right I'd have to compile everything d'oh [2021-06-07T17:19:03Z] <riteo> For testing I actually used adélie linux [2021-06-07T17:19:18Z] <schillingklaus> such as nethack, snake, tetris, moon-buggy, hangman,... [2021-06-07T17:19:55Z] <jstnas> rogue [2021-06-07T17:20:07Z] <noocsharp> there are decent games written in the past 30 years [2021-06-07T17:20:18Z] <kqz> ahahahaha [2021-06-07T17:20:26Z] <riteo> lmao [2021-06-07T17:20:53Z] <riteo> mind you that after all this gpu hell is done I will burn that thing down [2021-06-07T17:20:59Z] <riteo> this is only because I'm desperate [2021-06-07T17:23:37Z] <riteo> oh also it seems like they added some missing symbols too already [2021-06-07T17:23:50Z] <riteo> like __sched_cpualloc and __sched_cpufree [2021-06-07T17:24:07Z] <riteo> I think that for now I'll work on a chroot and see the missing symbols [2021-06-07T17:47:39Z] <acheam> minimal web browser people: what do you do for bookmarks? I'm considering whether or not to include support for them in chorizo [2021-06-07T17:48:02Z] <acheam> i've heard good things about buku, but it isn't exactly KISS [2021-06-07T17:50:16Z] <noocsharp> surfraw [2021-06-07T17:50:27Z] <noocsharp> or even just a dmenu script [2021-06-07T17:55:39Z] <acheam> huh, I didn't know Julian Assange was a shell scripter [2021-06-07T17:55:49Z] <acheam> thanks! [2021-06-07T17:55:57Z] <kiedtl> Aren't we all? [2021-06-07T17:56:15Z] <kiedtl> except for the mac-toting valleybros :^)) [2021-06-07T18:08:41Z] <claudia> acheam: I use dmenu and a simple textfile. Works great with lariza because everything is opened in the same window. [2021-06-07T18:08:44Z] <claudia> http://ix.io/3p4S [2021-06-07T18:12:18Z] <acheam> claudia: thanks! [2021-06-07T18:13:15Z] <dilyn> I literally text and email myself links and stuff :v [2021-06-07T18:13:27Z] <dilyn> I barely leverage bookmark features built into browsers lmfao [2021-06-07T18:13:40Z] <claudia> email: best private pastebin :D [2021-06-07T18:13:51Z] <dilyn> for real [2021-06-07T18:14:09Z] <dilyn> also a text file in ~ [2021-06-07T18:14:35Z] <dilyn> I basically just want chromium but with surf's (lack of) features, tbh. [2021-06-07T18:15:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> can someone send me a zstd package? [2021-06-07T18:15:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> either musl or gcc or *something* in my dev toolchain relied on it [2021-06-07T18:15:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> and kiss didn't pick that up [2021-06-07T18:17:09Z] <claudia> chromium because of no toolkit? [2021-06-07T18:17:16Z] <dilyn> mmhmm [2021-06-07T18:17:25Z] <dilyn> mid: I'll have one in a minute for u [2021-06-07T18:17:31Z] <midfavila-laptop> thanks [2021-06-07T18:17:46Z] <dilyn> unless you've blacklisted github.com in which case I'll have to put it somewhere else [2021-06-07T18:17:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'll have to figure out what linked against that and deal with it accordingly... [2021-06-07T18:17:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> just put it on 0x0 [2021-06-07T18:17:59Z] <dilyn> not having dialog boxes is... unpleasant, ngl [2021-06-07T18:17:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> or w/e [2021-06-07T18:18:06Z] <dilyn> 0x0 supports files? neat! [2021-06-07T18:18:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah [2021-06-07T18:18:13Z] <dilyn> oh yeah it does do images doesn't it [2021-06-07T18:18:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> 0x0 supports whatever you want [2021-06-07T18:18:24Z] <midfavila-laptop> but large stuff is deleted faster than small stuff [2021-06-07T18:18:27Z] * midfavila-laptop shrugs [2021-06-07T18:18:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> i want to set up something similar on SDF [2021-06-07T18:18:43Z] <dilyn> 'not for backups' sad noises [2021-06-07T18:19:10Z] <acheam> i've just switched to rsyncing stuff onto my server [2021-06-07T18:19:24Z] <acheam> accessing it via l.armaanb.net [2021-06-07T18:19:27Z] <omanom> you can self-host 0x0 and remove the upload restrictions if you want to [2021-06-07T18:19:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> aw fuck, it was gcc that linked [2021-06-07T18:19:38Z] <acheam> 0x0 is a bit of a pain to self host [2021-06-07T18:19:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> this is gonna suck [2021-06-07T18:19:43Z] <acheam> python, uwsgi, etc [2021-06-07T18:20:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> doesn't HTTP literally have a PUT command [2021-06-07T18:20:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> can't you just use that? [2021-06-07T18:20:29Z] <dilyn> https://0x0.st/-_6e.gz [2021-06-07T18:20:32Z] <dilyn> 578e87f959940c0c9603ab8ef8000dc8d43070b7d628dd10e89031ca35a4484e zstd@1.5.0-1.tar.gz [2021-06-07T18:20:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> thx bby [2021-06-07T18:20:39Z] <omanom> yeah, the "complex" part is the aging scheme, content recognition, etc [2021-06-07T18:20:53Z] <dilyn> oh damn if it was gcc... [2021-06-07T18:20:56Z] <riteo> btw apparently kakoune doesn't compile on kiss [2021-06-07T18:20:57Z] <dilyn> harumph [2021-06-07T18:21:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> ...you can't just use bc and file for that? [2021-06-07T18:21:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> also [2021-06-07T18:21:04Z] <riteo> I had to fork the package and make it compile the latest commit [2021-06-07T18:21:04Z] <midfavila-laptop> suggestion: [2021-06-07T18:21:12Z] <omanom> you probably could, sure [2021-06-07T18:21:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> if gcc can link against zstd without being picked up on by kiss, [2021-06-07T18:21:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> can that either be disabled in the buildfile or added to deps [2021-06-07T18:22:16Z] <dilyn> https://0x0.st/-_6_.xz [2021-06-07T18:22:19Z] <dilyn> 6a3fbd3c674457d8d2f9fa314a405058dcd263e338f0ea32b06c0d574026df03 zstd@1.5.0-1.tar.xz [2021-06-07T18:22:22Z] <dilyn> that should work lmao [2021-06-07T18:22:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm just using a static busybox that I keep for emergencies to extract stuff [2021-06-07T18:22:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> good thing I did. libarchive is dead rn [2021-06-07T18:23:25Z] <riteo> static software's the best [2021-06-07T18:23:38Z] <riteo> humongous deps killed it [2021-06-07T18:23:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo [2021-06-07T18:23:42Z] <midfavila-laptop> you don't understand riteo [2021-06-07T18:23:44Z] <dilyn> I don't know that gcc allows you to switch off linking against zstd [2021-06-07T18:23:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> we use containers for that now [2021-06-07T18:23:48Z] <kqz> riteo: latest git builds fine for me [2021-06-07T18:23:51Z] <kqz> (of kakoune) [2021-06-07T18:23:54Z] <riteo> yes kqz [2021-06-07T18:23:55Z] <riteo> I said that [2021-06-07T18:23:58Z] <dilyn> kiss-static is the way :v [2021-06-07T18:24:03Z] <riteo> the last stable version though doesn't compile [2021-06-07T18:24:12Z] <midfavila-laptop> if I could get all my stuff to compile statically I would [2021-06-07T18:24:30Z] <riteo> wasn't kiss statically linked for most stuff anyways? [2021-06-07T18:24:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> i don't think so [2021-06-07T18:24:48Z] <dilyn> just the core stuff [2021-06-07T18:24:51Z] <dilyn> git, curl [2021-06-07T18:24:53Z] <dilyn> busybox [2021-06-07T18:25:00Z] <riteo> oh [2021-06-07T18:25:15Z] <dilyn> enough to always be able to get packages that are broken haha [2021-06-07T18:25:36Z] <midfavila-laptop> i need to set up a binary repo [2021-06-07T18:25:49Z] <riteo> I would've swore that it was all statically linked [2021-06-07T18:25:59Z] <riteo> that sounds very weird for a kiss distro [2021-06-07T18:26:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> meh [2021-06-07T18:26:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> not having to compile everything from source on my 800mhz laptop would be awesome [2021-06-07T18:26:40Z] <riteo> eeeh [2021-06-07T18:26:46Z] <riteo> if you're still gonna depend on a server [2021-06-07T18:26:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'd host it myself obvs [2021-06-07T18:26:54Z] <riteo> just make it build for you, no? [2021-06-07T18:27:05Z] <riteo> or use distcc [2021-06-07T18:27:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> my workstation already handles builds most of the time [2021-06-07T18:27:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> distcc is cringe because it relies on python [2021-06-07T18:27:28Z] <riteo> I have no idea what you have against python [2021-06-07T18:27:38Z] <acheam> its existance [2021-06-07T18:27:38Z] <dilyn> because it's slow(tm) [2021-06-07T18:27:41Z] <riteo> it's one of the few based interpreted languages [2021-06-07T18:27:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> slow, inefficient, mandatory whitespace [2021-06-07T18:27:55Z] <riteo> well duh it's meant for quick prototyping and simple programs [2021-06-07T18:27:56Z] <midfavila-laptop> the only based interpreted languages are LISPs and Lua [2021-06-07T18:28:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'll fight you on that [2021-06-07T18:28:09Z] <dilyn> riteo: statically linked systems bring along their own frustrations that are difficult to manage [2021-06-07T18:28:37Z] <riteo> uh, didn't know that [2021-06-07T18:28:48Z] <dilyn> I still haven't fixed the depends files for KISS-static :X [2021-06-07T18:28:57Z] <dilyn> it's hard to break, just difficult to upgrade haha [2021-06-07T18:29:06Z] <riteo> I always thought that since everyone used humongous libs they switched to dynamic-linking [2021-06-07T18:29:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> i mean, yes [2021-06-07T18:29:41Z] <dilyn> there were many reasons to switch to dynamic libs [2021-06-07T18:30:25Z] <dilyn> and now here we are, with a graphics stack that heavily leverages dl_open :v [2021-06-07T18:30:27Z] <dilyn> thx mesa [2021-06-07T18:30:32Z] <omanom> riteo I use python pretty much everywhere it doesn't make sense to use shell or it is easier for me to just do it with python [2021-06-07T18:30:50Z] <riteo> I always saw python as a way fancier shell [2021-06-07T18:30:55Z] <omanom> in like... 99% of cases "but its slow" doesn't actually matter [2021-06-07T18:31:00Z] <riteo> yeah [2021-06-07T18:31:23Z] <omanom> and in a good portion of those cases there are ways to get it faster if you /really/ want to instead of using something arguably more appropriate for the solution [2021-06-07T18:31:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> the problem is more "it's inefficient" [2021-06-07T18:31:48Z] <omanom> compared to? like, what are you trying to do with it? [2021-06-07T18:31:56Z] <riteo> I looked for kiss-static and found out oasis [2021-06-07T18:32:02Z] <riteo> it's hella weird, but extremely interesting [2021-06-07T18:32:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> i once wrote a simple program that used tk to create three buttons that each ran a simple shell command when clicked [2021-06-07T18:32:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> this required upwards of sixty megs of memory. [2021-06-07T18:32:36Z] <riteo> did you really use python for a GUI program mid [2021-06-07T18:33:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> i didn't know how to use C or LISP at the time [2021-06-07T18:33:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> nobully [2021-06-07T18:33:18Z] <riteo> don't worry [2021-06-07T18:33:32Z] <riteo> it's just that you used a plastic hammer for hitting a steel nail [2021-06-07T18:33:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh [2021-06-07T18:35:00Z] <riteo> oh my god I'm feeling so dirty [2021-06-07T18:35:12Z] <riteo> I'm not sure if I can make it making nvidia drivers work on kiss [2021-06-07T18:35:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> ew [2021-06-07T18:35:24Z] <riteo> I know mid [2021-06-07T18:35:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> use based matrox [2021-06-07T18:35:28Z] <riteo> but I'm desperate [2021-06-07T18:35:41Z] <midfavila-laptop> there's always xf86-video-vesa [2021-06-07T18:35:43Z] <midfavila-laptop> :^) [2021-06-07T18:36:17Z] <omanom> doesn't Tk actually spin up an embedded TCL interpreter along with your GUI elements? was that 60MB actually really python's "fault"? [2021-06-07T18:36:49Z] <riteo> midfavila-laptop: but minecraft [2021-06-07T18:37:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> i find it hard to believe that spawning a single button requires TCL to use even ten megs. [2021-06-07T18:37:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> *admittedly*, I didn't check [2021-06-07T18:45:27Z] <dilyn> riteo: oasis is wonderful! I want to use it more [2021-06-07T18:45:33Z] <dilyn> but alas, I am busy [2021-06-07T18:46:50Z] <riteo> it really takes a completely new spin on package management [2021-06-07T18:52:06Z] <dilyn> yeah mcf did a beautiful thing [2021-06-07T19:49:37Z] <omanom> http://ix.io/3p5J this is averaging ~10MB idling on my KISS Linux install, so 60MB seems like a stretch unless there was something weird with the setup [2021-06-07T19:51:27Z] <noocsharp> riteo: im building a pinephone system based on oasis, very pleasant to hack on [2021-06-07T19:53:15Z] <noocsharp> getting my changes onto the phone is as simple as `git pull` [2021-06-07T20:05:22Z] <omanom> noocsharp have you looked at different serialization protocol options for your socket comms? i'd be curious what is available [2021-06-07T20:09:09Z] <riteo> noocsharp: cool! [2021-06-07T20:12:09Z] <noocsharp> omanom: at the beginning i considered just using a wayland protocol extension (because serialization is free and it will be fairly integrated with the ui anyway), but ended up deciding against it for the sake of reducing dependencies [2021-06-07T20:13:04Z] <noocsharp> i think im just gonna stick with writing convenience functions for serialization [2021-06-07T20:14:46Z] <omanom> is it for IPC between your modem daemon(s) and whatever client apps you write? [2021-06-07T20:15:20Z] <noocsharp> yeah [2021-06-07T20:17:24Z] <noocsharp> i wish there were a way to do posix message queues with one connection endpoint for clients... i totally would have used that instead [2021-06-07T20:17:54Z] <noocsharp> then i don't think i would even have to worry about serializing data [2021-06-07T20:20:22Z] <omanom> most of those AT commands and responses are probably small enough that any serialization doesn't really provide much of a gain i guess [2021-06-07T20:22:12Z] <noocsharp> maybe its less serialization and more encoding/decoding [2021-06-07T20:22:28Z] <noocsharp> idk what to call it [2021-06-07T20:23:11Z] <omanom> yeah i always mix them up. marshaling/unmarshaling, encoding/decoding, serializing/deserializing, packing/unpacking, etc [2021-06-07T20:24:00Z] <noocsharp> the goal is just to get the data across the wire in way that the other side knows what to do with it [2021-06-07T20:31:30Z] <noocsharp> wait, i'm stupid [2021-06-07T20:31:38Z] <noocsharp> i can literally just send a struct over the wire like any other data [2021-06-07T20:31:46Z] <noocsharp> i don't need no encoding [2021-06-07T20:32:31Z] <jedavies> noocsharp: you have the code somewhere? Would be cool to try out. Just using sway + wvkbd on mine. [2021-06-07T20:34:06Z] <noocsharp> i uploaded the swc/st/svkbd code, but i don't think my atd code is ready yet [2021-06-07T20:39:15Z] <noocsharp> i also haven't put my oasis repo up yet, but i probably should [2021-06-07T20:42:09Z] <noocsharp> it's all pretty fragile and buggy at the moment anyway [2021-06-07T22:12:40Z] <riteo> guys what should I do with /usr/local/lib? [2021-06-07T22:13:06Z] <riteo> it isn't there by default anywhere and some package installs there [2021-06-07T22:14:20Z] <riteo> should I like, symlink it? [2021-06-07T22:15:40Z] <june> Tell packages not to install there? [2021-06-07T22:16:09Z] <riteo> is there a non messy way? [2021-06-07T22:16:14Z] <riteo> I did just a regular make install [2021-06-07T22:16:26Z] <acheam> PREFIX=/ur [2021-06-07T22:16:29Z] <acheam> ehr [2021-06-07T22:16:31Z] <acheam> /usr [2021-06-07T22:16:38Z] <acheam> add that to your make commands [2021-06-07T22:17:02Z] <riteo> oh, thanks! [2021-06-07T22:24:07Z] <riteo> yep, it worked. Thanks a lot! [2021-06-07T22:25:51Z] <riteo> does anyone know if there's some way of adding optional dependencies to packages? [2021-06-07T22:26:15Z] <riteo> should I detect them at compile time or is that simply out of scope? [2021-06-07T22:29:52Z] <acheam> up to you [2021-06-07T22:30:04Z] <riteo> oh ok [2021-06-07T22:30:06Z] <acheam> the webkit2gtk package does optional dependencies [2021-06-07T22:30:23Z] <acheam> it "kiss list <optional dep> && variable=true" [2021-06-07T22:30:43Z] <acheam> then sets the make option to the value of the variable [2021-06-07T22:30:49Z] <riteo> I'll do that then, thanks for the tip! [2021-06-07T22:31:14Z] <riteo> wouldn't it be, like, weird to call the package manager from the package itself though? [2021-06-07T22:31:31Z] <riteo> what if someone uses a non standard package manager? Do they just alias it to kiss? [2021-06-07T22:31:44Z] <acheam> that's partly why i'm not a fan of it [2021-06-07T22:32:16Z] <riteo> maybe I can make it depend on pkgconf and use that? [2021-06-07T22:32:23Z] <riteo> I mean, those are all libraries after all [2021-06-07T22:32:28Z] <acheam> yeah that would work [2021-06-07T22:32:37Z] <acheam> or just make the package work for your use case [2021-06-07T22:33:19Z] <riteo> well I was improving the gcompat package [2021-06-07T22:33:32Z] <riteo> you see, it actually supports a lot more symbols by linking extra libraries to it [2021-06-07T22:33:45Z] <riteo> and one important one for nvidia is musl-fts if you want to run the installer [2021-06-07T22:34:27Z] <riteo> I thought it'd be nice to contribute back this change, that's why I hoped to make it optional [2021-06-07T22:35:45Z] <riteo> also, is pkgconf implicit? [2021-06-07T22:36:04Z] <riteo> it looks like dylan didn't make gcompat depend on it [2021-06-07T22:36:19Z] <acheam> i mean, its not the biggest deal in the world if you forget it [2021-06-07T22:36:23Z] <acheam> but you should still include it [2021-06-07T22:36:46Z] <riteo> huh, he probably forgot [2021-06-07T22:36:56Z] <riteo> although the style guide talks about implicit dependencies [2021-06-07T22:39:13Z] <jslick0> I think illiliti cited that as a complication of the king package manager [2021-06-07T22:39:43Z] <acheam> ye [2021-06-07T22:39:52Z] <acheam> uhh what is dylan even trying to say in that section> [2021-06-07T22:39:52Z] <riteo> mh, isn't there possibly another approach for that package? [2021-06-07T22:40:04Z] <acheam> https://k1sslinux.org/wiki/kiss/style-guide#1201 [2021-06-07T22:40:09Z] <acheam> like, what does that even mean? [2021-06-07T22:40:15Z] <riteo> lmao I noticed that [2021-06-07T22:40:27Z] <riteo> "if you don't need it, don't specify it", dug [2021-06-07T22:40:29Z] <riteo> duh [2021-06-07T22:40:45Z] <riteo> I guess he means that optional dependencies must be removed from the depends file [2021-06-07T22:41:02Z] <riteo> he kinda states the obvious though in other points too [2021-06-07T22:41:09Z] <riteo> look at 1203 and 1204 [2021-06-07T22:41:13Z] <jslick0> I think it means if there are no dependencies, then delete the depends file [2021-06-07T22:41:24Z] <acheam> pkg-config is implicit [2021-06-07T22:41:25Z] <riteo> no, that's 1206 [2021-06-07T22:41:32Z] <jslick0> oh [2021-06-07T22:41:45Z] <acheam> some packages in main have it, others dont [2021-06-07T22:42:00Z] <acheam> and I've never heard of anyone complaining that a package won't build because pkgconf is missing [2021-06-07T22:42:11Z] <riteo> I mean, can you call it a working system without pkgconf? [2021-06-07T22:42:20Z] <riteo> thanks for checking btw [2021-06-07T22:42:32Z] <acheam> well, its just a make tool [2021-06-07T22:42:35Z] <acheam> not needed for runtime [2021-06-07T22:42:41Z] <riteo> right [2021-06-07T22:42:43Z] <acheam> so you could absolutely remove it [2021-06-07T22:42:55Z] <riteo> mhh, I think I'll put it in just to be sure [2021-06-07T22:43:08Z] <riteo> I think that the standard could be tightened up a bit [2021-06-07T22:43:19Z] <acheam> dilyn [2021-06-07T22:43:37Z] <acheam> can we get a verdict on this? [2021-06-07T22:43:40Z] <acheam> the problem is [2021-06-07T22:43:44Z] <acheam> people forget about them [2021-06-07T22:43:56Z] <acheam> because they don't build in a clean chroot or whatever, so they don't realize its a dep [2021-06-07T22:44:12Z] <acheam> and the dependency scanning kiss does wont detect a build dep [2021-06-07T22:44:21Z] <riteo> I think that's another issue [2021-06-07T22:44:36Z] <acheam> i mean, I don't build my packages in a chroot, aint nobody got time for that [2021-06-07T22:44:37Z] <riteo> maybe we could as well throw in a tool for checking that with a clean chroot, arch linux style, but that may be overkill [2021-06-07T22:45:11Z] <riteo> everyone could have time for that if they got an automated tool [2021-06-07T22:45:26Z] <acheam> for small packages sure [2021-06-07T22:46:05Z] <riteo> I see what you mean [2021-06-07T22:46:35Z] <riteo> if we really wanted to be sure could we use like a build server somewhere, maybe github's one? [2021-06-07T22:46:40Z] <riteo> like at commit time [2021-06-07T22:47:50Z] <riteo> anyways making a tighter more flavor-independent standard would be nice IMO [2021-06-07T22:48:28Z] <riteo> the checking tool would be only part of this whole tightening up, but maybe more experienced people could tell at PR time [2021-06-07T22:49:40Z] <riteo> we really need dilyn thoughts on this before going further [2021-06-07T22:58:55Z] <nerditup> We typically don't want to pull in dependencies unless absolutely necessary, no? Bonus if you patch the upstream source to trim dependencies further [2021-06-07T22:59:42Z] <riteo> well, if pkgconf's needed at build time why not specify it? [2021-06-07T22:59:42Z] <nerditup> I think that check just tries to reinforce this, but agreed it can definitely be more explicit [2021-06-07T23:00:20Z] <riteo> it makes sense for dylan to not think about it too much and make it as tight as it could be, after all there was only one kiss [2021-06-07T23:00:26Z] <nerditup> You specify as build, so it doesn't get installed when kiss install is run, right? [2021-06-07T23:00:36Z] <riteo> idk for sure [2021-06-07T23:00:39Z] <riteo> I would guess so [2021-06-07T23:00:47Z] <nerditup> That's how I do it [2021-06-07T23:01:04Z] <riteo> but nowadays there are other kiss flavors and while we shouldn't like sacrifice stuff for them if it doesn't cost that much to help them out I don't see why we shouldn't [2021-06-07T23:01:09Z] <riteo> also explicit is better IMO [2021-06-07T23:01:58Z] <riteo> but again, we need dilyn's verdict on this [2021-06-07T23:01:58Z] <nerditup> Can't argue there [2021-06-07T23:03:39Z] <acheam> pkg-config is implicit [2021-06-07T23:03:40Z] <acheam> some packages in main have it, others dont [2021-06-07T23:03:40Z] <acheam> and I've never heard of anyone complaining that a package won't build because pkgconf is missing [2021-06-07T23:03:41Z] <acheam> well, its just a make tool [2021-06-07T23:03:41Z] <acheam> not needed for runtime [2021-06-07T23:03:45Z] <acheam> so you could absolutely remove it [2021-06-07T23:03:48Z] <acheam> dilyn [2021-06-07T23:03:48Z] <nerditup> https://k1sslinux.org/package-system#3.0 [2021-06-07T23:03:51Z] <acheam> can we get a verdict on this? [2021-06-07T23:03:54Z] <acheam> the problem is [2021-06-07T23:03:57Z] <acheam> people forget about them [2021-06-07T23:04:00Z] <acheam> because they don't build in a clean chroot or whatever, so they don't realize its a dep [2021-06-07T23:04:03Z] <acheam> and the dependency scanning kiss does wont detect a build dep [2021-06-07T23:04:06Z] <acheam> i mean, I don't build my packages in a chroot, aint nobody got time for that [2021-06-07T23:04:09Z] <acheam> for small packages sure [2021-06-07T23:04:10Z] <riteo> acheam [2021-06-07T23:04:14Z] <riteo> what's happening? [2021-06-07T23:04:25Z] <nerditup> Lol [2021-06-07T23:04:48Z] <nerditup> Bouncer playback his own messages? [2021-06-07T23:05:06Z] <riteo> now we find out acheam is an AI and it messed up for a second [2021-06-07T23:05:26Z] <riteo> we know what you are acheam, admit it [2021-06-07T23:05:36Z] * nerditup acheam is now known as not-a-bot [2021-06-07T23:05:45Z] <riteo> lmao [2021-06-07T23:07:01Z] <nerditup> Anybody want to build a web browser with me? I was looking for some constructive discussion on why I shouldn't, prove me wrong! Lol https://lobste.rs/s/wrkm4k/it_s_time_ditch_chrome#c_bwsdo6 [2021-06-07T23:07:11Z] <acheam> uhhhhhhhh [2021-06-07T23:07:20Z] <acheam> meep morp [2021-06-07T23:07:20Z] <nerditup> Its okay acheam [2021-06-07T23:07:21Z] <acheam> zurp [2021-06-07T23:07:31Z] <riteo> acheam we'll accept you for what you are [2021-06-07T23:07:37Z] <acheam> int main(char ** arghr312epqwjofjea [2021-06-07T23:07:40Z] <acheam> 010101111010101010 [2021-06-07T23:07:55Z] <riteo> I wonder if acheam is still vulnerable to heartbleed [2021-06-07T23:08:08Z] * riteo makes a messed up request [2021-06-07T23:08:15Z] <nerditup> Anybody crazy enough to build/run their own distros from first principles should have the proper personality type to want to build a new open browser from scratch lol [2021-06-07T23:08:25Z] <riteo> it's simple nerditup [2021-06-07T23:08:35Z] <nerditup> Right? Okay, cool [2021-06-07T23:08:53Z] <riteo> anybody crazy enough to build/run their own distros from first principles should have the proper personality type to understand that the web is simply wrong [2021-06-07T23:09:00Z] <riteo> it's very very very messed up [2021-06-07T23:09:07Z] <riteo> supporting it would go against said first principles [2021-06-07T23:09:35Z] <nerditup> Ah, touché [2021-06-07T23:10:15Z] <riteo> what does that mean [2021-06-07T23:12:17Z] <acheam> good comeback [2021-06-07T23:12:39Z] <riteo> oh, like "you're right"? [2021-06-07T23:13:28Z] <nerditup> Yeah lol [2021-06-07T23:13:36Z] <claudia> o/ [2021-06-07T23:13:40Z] <riteo> lol sorry, Didn't know that [2021-06-07T23:13:42Z] <riteo> hi claudia! [2021-06-07T23:13:45Z] <nerditup> "Good point" [2021-06-07T23:13:52Z] <riteo> cool I guess [2021-06-07T23:13:57Z] <nerditup> o/ [2021-06-07T23:14:40Z] <claudia> There was some effort by dylan to make pkgconf an explicit dep. See here https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/216 [2021-06-07T23:14:58Z] <claudia> Same for 'make' https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/217 [2021-06-07T23:15:23Z] <riteo> oh cool, so that wasn't that bad of an idea! [2021-06-07T23:15:36Z] <claudia> I think for community its nice to have but is not a dealbreaker. [2021-06-07T23:15:40Z] <riteo> should we like "forward" these issues in the new repo? [2021-06-07T23:15:45Z] <riteo> ok yeah absolutely [2021-06-07T23:15:47Z] <acheam> good 'ol make make [2021-06-07T23:15:52Z] <riteo> lmao yes [2021-06-07T23:16:00Z] <riteo> but this means that the style guide must be updated [2021-06-07T23:16:07Z] <claudia> Its a bit of an iffi to check those small bits. [2021-06-07T23:16:52Z] <acheam> oh missed your message about the browser [2021-06-07T23:17:27Z] <acheam> once you've written some code, give me a shout [2021-06-07T23:17:51Z] <nerditup> \o/ [2021-06-07T23:18:14Z] <acheam> ehr, by some code, I meant, a few thousand lines of code on this specific project [2021-06-07T23:18:18Z] <acheam> not just in general [2021-06-07T23:19:24Z] <nerditup> Oh... Fine [2021-06-07T23:20:57Z] <acheam> like, i'd love for it to happen, but it just doesn't seem practical [2021-06-07T23:21:18Z] <acheam> look at mozilla: 250 full time employees, and they already have a codebase [2021-06-07T23:21:38Z] <acheam> you'd need 1000+ FOSS contributors to write that amount of code [2021-06-07T23:22:23Z] <nerditup> Yeah and the roblem is, I wouldn't know where to start. [2021-06-07T23:22:26Z] <nerditup> Lol [2021-06-07T23:22:33Z] <acheam> heh [2021-06-07T23:22:44Z] <acheam> theoretically [2021-06-07T23:22:48Z] <acheam> I would start with parsing HTML [2021-06-07T23:22:54Z] <nerditup> I guess I just think that "it's too hard" shouldn't be a reason not to do something [2021-06-07T23:23:07Z] <acheam> i supopse not [2021-06-07T23:23:16Z] <acheam> i guess it depends how from scratch you want to do it [2021-06-07T23:23:21Z] <nerditup> Especially considering all the browser complaints recently [2021-06-07T23:23:53Z] <acheam> because you need 4 components really: HTML parsing, CSS styling, JS execution, and then canvas/webgl/webaudio/etc [2021-06-07T23:24:20Z] <acheam> there are already decently minimal implementations of the first three of those [2021-06-07T23:24:22Z] <nerditup> I think it would be interesting to rethink browser design to be more module, where you could say swap out JS engines [2021-06-07T23:24:33Z] <riteo> that'd be interesting [2021-06-07T23:25:26Z] <nerditup> Sparking competition and facilitating tests in different languages for performance or what not [2021-06-07T23:25:47Z] <nerditup> Like hey this works great in Rust but this makes more sense in C [2021-06-07T23:26:06Z] <nerditup> Or Erlang or whatever [2021-06-07T23:26:50Z] <acheam> you could, for example, try to smash togethor litehtml and spidermonkey [2021-06-07T23:26:53Z] <acheam> https://github.com/litehtml/litehtml [2021-06-07T23:26:57Z] <acheam> https://spidermonkey.dev/ [2021-06-07T23:27:53Z] <riteo> obviously spidermonkeys webpage requires js to properly render their logo/title lmao [2021-06-07T23:28:09Z] <acheam> they have a logo/title on their website? [2021-06-07T23:28:10Z] <acheam> lol [2021-06-07T23:28:16Z] <nerditup> I've seen some crazy CSS lol [2021-06-07T23:28:31Z] <acheam> webkit is good enough for me tbh [2021-06-07T23:28:46Z] <acheam> embeddable, and non-google [2021-06-07T23:28:59Z] <acheam> can't complain about it being heavy because its complete, and a complete web browser will be heavy [2021-06-07T23:29:39Z] <acheam> which is why i'm working on writing a browser GUI not a browser engine [2021-06-07T23:31:06Z] <claudia> acheam: Do you consider adding configurable scroll speed? [2021-06-07T23:32:00Z] <claudia> The author of vimb added this feature based on this surf patch http://surf.suckless.org/patches/scroll-faster/ [2021-06-07T23:33:00Z] <riteo> yesss, lfs support is done [2021-06-07T23:33:12Z] <riteo> time to switch to my cellphone now [2021-06-07T23:33:28Z] <acheam> claudia: yes! [2021-06-07T23:33:41Z] * claudia does the happy dance [2021-06-07T23:33:47Z] <acheam> in fact I was working on that earlier, its almost ready to push [2021-06-07T23:33:51Z] <acheam> in fact, it is ready to push [2021-06-07T23:34:05Z] <riteo> ping timeout powers enabled [2021-06-07T23:34:06Z] <acheam> but I found this bug that I want to fix first [2021-06-07T23:34:07Z] <acheam> https://todo.sr.ht/~armaan/chorizo/42 [2021-06-07T23:34:29Z] <acheam> its really weird, scrolling up goes up 1 line more than scrolling down when using the keyboard shortcut [2021-06-07T23:34:52Z] <acheam> which is absurd, because all it does it inputs the up/down arrow in a for loop however many times you specify [2021-06-07T23:35:03Z] <acheam> and the loops are exactly the same [2021-06-07T23:35:12Z] <riteo> that's very weird [2021-06-07T23:35:51Z] <nerditup> Strange [2021-06-07T23:36:16Z] <acheam> oh were you talking about with the mouse, claudia? [2021-06-07T23:36:22Z] <claudia> Is it latest master? [2021-06-07T23:36:25Z] <claudia> acheam: yes! [2021-06-07T23:36:52Z] <claudia> while scrolling with the keyboard I dont care how long to press. But I care on how often to swipe. [2021-06-07T23:36:59Z] <acheam> ah [2021-06-07T23:37:05Z] <acheam> yeah I haven't done that, sorry to dissapoint [2021-06-07T23:37:43Z] <acheam> however should be easy with the guidance of that patch! [2021-06-07T23:38:03Z] <acheam> Will implement it with this set of scrolling changes [2021-06-07T23:38:30Z] <acheam> https://todo.sr.ht/~armaan/chorizo/43 [2021-06-07T23:39:15Z] <acheam> I wouldn't really reccomend using my fork until i've released 1.0.0 though [2021-06-07T23:39:47Z] <acheam> Because there could be some very breaking changes [2021-06-07T23:40:04Z] <acheam> and the code is a bit sketchy in places / i'm not sure if its leaky [2021-06-07T23:43:04Z] <claudia> sound good.