💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-05-27.txt captured on 2021-12-17 at 13:26:06.
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[2021-05-27T00:00:26Z] <riteo> yeah type annotating everything kinda sucks
[2021-05-27T00:01:34Z] <riteo> couldn't the implementation just ignore anything not valid? It's not like by specifying something's type you're 100% sure it's contents will serialize properly without going into weird casting and stuff
[2021-05-27T00:02:20Z] <riteo> s/it's contents/its contents/g
[2021-05-27T00:03:18Z] <omanom> i mean, that's why xml schema validation is so nice -- it does that ignoring for you
[2021-05-27T00:03:23Z] <carlosdavidepto> handling the typed -> untyped boundary is trivial, but handling the untyped -> typed boundary is far from that
[2021-05-27T00:03:51Z] <carlosdavidepto> go has a really nice way of dealing with this. structure annotations
[2021-05-27T00:04:33Z] <carlosdavidepto> "deserialize into this thing right here. return an error if something comes up"
[2021-05-27T00:06:12Z] <carlosdavidepto> of course, underneath the nice cloak of the json.Decoder.Decode API, there's quite a lot of complexity
[2021-05-27T00:07:21Z] riteo quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[2021-05-27T00:07:27Z] riteo_ joined
[2021-05-27T00:07:43Z] <riteo_> damn you, mobile networks!
[2021-05-27T00:07:48Z] <riteo_> here I am again
[2021-05-27T00:10:55Z] <riteo_> Could someone pass me the working log link? I can't find it anywhere.
[2021-05-27T00:11:04Z] <dilyn> https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/kisslinux/2021-05-26
[2021-05-27T00:11:20Z] <dilyn> should be put in the topic tbh
[2021-05-27T00:11:26Z] <riteo_> thanks!
[2021-05-27T00:12:01Z] <riteo_> yeah
[2021-05-27T00:12:38Z] <carlosdavidepto> dilyn will this be the permanent home of the logs?
[2021-05-27T00:12:47Z] <dilyn> perhaps probably most likely
[2021-05-27T00:13:26Z] <omanom> i forget who was looking at sound and alsa but here's another resource link: https://venam.nixers.net/blog/unix/2021/02/07/audio-stack.html#advanced-linux-sound-architecture-alsa
[2021-05-27T00:13:36Z] <dilyn> Perhaps this week I will sit down and have a nice, long conversation with myself to motivate me to setup litterbox properly and cleanly
[2021-05-27T00:13:41Z] <dilyn> but until then... /shrug
[2021-05-27T00:14:15Z] <riteo_> carlosdavidepto: but couldn't the server just return an error, or is the task of figuring out if the data is serializable in the first place hard?
[2021-05-27T00:14:16Z] <claudia> dilyn: you just have to search long enough. ftp://xmlsoft.org/libxml2/libxml2-2.9.12.tar.gz
[2021-05-27T00:14:18Z] <dilyn> maybe when all these interviews are over and I'm less stressed about my future :v
[2021-05-27T00:14:22Z] <claudia> release tarball.
[2021-05-27T00:14:23Z] <dilyn> ftp is gross tho
[2021-05-27T00:14:27Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-05-27T00:14:28Z] <claudia> ...
[2021-05-27T00:14:32Z] <necromansy> whats wrong with FTP
[2021-05-27T00:14:37Z] <claudia> :L
[2021-05-27T00:14:52Z] <dilyn> it's older than me
[2021-05-27T00:14:57Z] <riteo_> lmao
[2021-05-27T00:15:13Z] <dilyn> ftp is fine claudia :P
[2021-05-27T00:15:19Z] <necromansy> lmao
[2021-05-27T00:15:21Z] <carlosdavidepto> riteo_ sexps are easy to verify for serializability. there's not a lot of syntax
[2021-05-27T00:15:31Z] <claudia> yippieh.
[2021-05-27T00:16:13Z] <riteo_> mh, so it was just a weird choice from sexyrcp, so it could've been done without any type tags, right?
[2021-05-27T00:16:30Z] <carlosdavidepto> the issue is more around verifying that say, argument 1 of the rpc has the type you need, so that it fits correctly in the datastructure that you chose in your typed program
[2021-05-27T00:16:46Z] <carlosdavidepto> yeah, it could
[2021-05-27T00:17:40Z] <carlosdavidepto> if you expect an array of ints, and you get an array with 2 ints and some garbage, you can return an error right away from the server side
[2021-05-27T00:17:44Z] riteo joined
[2021-05-27T00:18:45Z] <carlosdavidepto> the type anotations aren't useful unless you're being lazy with the validation part
[2021-05-27T00:18:59Z] <dilyn> funkwhale is super tight. I think I found my spotify replacement.
[2021-05-27T00:19:03Z] <dilyn> also, this playlist slaps https://open.audio/library/playlists/62
[2021-05-27T00:19:14Z] <riteo> carlosdavidepto: I see, it's weird how this format is so unpopular, it looks so simple and nice! Maybe it's because json maps better toward OOP?
[2021-05-27T00:19:42Z] <carlosdavidepto> no, it's because json is simple enough and maps better to javascript
[2021-05-27T00:19:57Z] <carlosdavidepto> in fact, json is a very strict subset of javascript
[2021-05-27T00:20:23Z] <riteo> oh, makes sense
[2021-05-27T00:20:39Z] <noocsharp> for serializing data, i think the fact that json is more structured is advantageous over sexps
[2021-05-27T00:20:40Z] riteo_ quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[2021-05-27T00:21:05Z] <carlosdavidepto> noocsharp it makes receiver side validation a bit easier, yes
[2021-05-27T00:22:17Z] <carlosdavidepto> but the effect on the sender side is much smaller
[2021-05-27T00:22:29Z] <riteo> this fits really nicely into non-OO programming languages
[2021-05-27T00:24:56Z] <claudia> What is the issue with the shell linter on github? It says something with package "sed-i"
[2021-05-27T00:25:13Z] <carlosdavidepto> most dynamically typed languages should be able to handle sexps without much fuss
[2021-05-27T00:25:14Z] <claudia> Is it so long complaining until this package is fixed?
[2021-05-27T00:26:05Z] <carlosdavidepto> e.g. there's a natural representation of sexps in js: (f x (y z)) -> ["f", "x", ["y", "z"]]
[2021-05-27T00:26:49Z] <riteo> oh that's cool
[2021-05-27T00:29:07Z] <claudia> dilyn: wtf is this playlist. Its so calm I cant rage about computerproblems.
[2021-05-27T00:29:11Z] <carlosdavidepto> i can't find it now apparently, but a few years ago there was a tool that did just this to let you run lisp like code in your browser
[2021-05-27T00:30:19Z] <riteo> interesting
[2021-05-27T00:33:13Z] ick joined
[2021-05-27T00:34:26Z] <noocsharp> well sexps are not suitable for long paragraphs of text that contain parentheses
[2021-05-27T00:34:55Z] <noocsharp> which the wayland protocols contain many of
[2021-05-27T00:35:08Z] <noocsharp> maybe we can just swap the () for <>...
[2021-05-27T00:35:28Z] <carlosdavidepto> in racket you can use [] and () as long as you match them
[2021-05-27T00:35:42Z] <ick> are most of those paragraphs the documentation? could they be stripped out / pulled out into a separate file?
[2021-05-27T00:36:23Z] <noocsharp> true, i guess if you are using sexps for the protocol, it would make sense to put the documentation somewhere else
[2021-05-27T00:37:33Z] <noocsharp> but at that point it might be time to concede that this is a valid application of xml
[2021-05-27T00:40:33Z] <carlosdavidepto> but is there any application of xml that would not be best served by json?
[2021-05-27T00:40:51Z] <acheam> XHTML?
[2021-05-27T00:40:55Z] <carlosdavidepto> the only thing xml has over json in terms of data is attributes
[2021-05-27T00:41:08Z] <carlosdavidepto> and those are not exactly essential over the wire
[2021-05-27T00:41:13Z] <noocsharp> true
[2021-05-27T00:41:26Z] <carlosdavidepto> xhtml died with html5
[2021-05-27T00:41:41Z] <acheam> still plenty of xhmtl sites out there
[2021-05-27T00:41:48Z] <acheam> and a valid use of XML over json
[2021-05-27T00:42:09Z] <acheam> or just pretend its 10 years ago for the sake of argument : l
[2021-05-27T00:42:23Z] <acheam> s/\|/)/g
[2021-05-27T00:42:25Z] <noocsharp> but is it a valid use of of xhtml over html?
[2021-05-27T00:42:42Z] <acheam> XHTML is theoretical more machine readable
[2021-05-27T00:42:45Z] <carlosdavidepto> good question, but that's moving the goalpost
[2021-05-27T00:42:49Z] <acheam> and easier to validate
[2021-05-27T00:42:53Z] <carlosdavidepto> so acheam wins this one
[2021-05-27T00:43:00Z] * acheam takes a bow
[2021-05-27T00:43:36Z] <acheam> see you at the next one folks, tomorrow night at 8pm, right here on channel 3, for JSON vs YML
[2021-05-27T00:43:52Z] <acheam> for NBC sports, I'm acheam.
[2021-05-27T00:44:38Z] <noocsharp> how are you supposed to deal with < and > in xml not used for tags?
[2021-05-27T00:44:45Z] <noocsharp> or are they just illegal?
[2021-05-27T00:45:22Z] <carlosdavidepto> you escape them
[2021-05-27T00:45:28Z] <noocsharp> looks like you replace them with < and >
[2021-05-27T00:45:30Z] <ick> sort of like urls
[2021-05-27T00:45:32Z] <ick> yep
[2021-05-27T00:45:32Z] <noocsharp> yeah
[2021-05-27T00:46:20Z] <acheam> pretty gross ngl
[2021-05-27T00:46:21Z] <ick> you could also like... define the content of a tag to be encoded a certain way
[2021-05-27T00:46:38Z] <acheam> that makes me feel ick-y
[2021-05-27T00:47:02Z] <noocsharp> if you did sexprs with a pair invisible characters in the first 32 bytes of ascii, you could represent any text in it
[2021-05-27T00:47:12Z] <ick> but then it's not necessarily human readable (which i guess doesn't matter) and it means you're possibly encoding multiple times (if you encode/compress/whatever over the wire)
[2021-05-27T00:47:48Z] <noocsharp> idk why i said 32 bytes
[2021-05-27T00:47:56Z] <noocsharp> i guess its kind of right
[2021-05-27T00:48:32Z] <riteo> wouldn't quoting fix the reserved symbol issue?
[2021-05-27T00:48:50Z] <ick> probably depends on the xml parser you use
[2021-05-27T00:49:19Z] <noocsharp> riteo: in what context?
[2021-05-27T00:49:36Z] <riteo> noocsharp: talking about sexprs
[2021-05-27T00:50:26Z] <noocsharp> well if you want to maintaing the simplicity of parsing sexpr, a ')' inside quotes would be interpreted as the end of the list
[2021-05-27T00:51:15Z] <riteo> and what would you do with the unterminated quote?
[2021-05-27T00:52:05Z] <noocsharp> that's the other problem with sexprs: are quotes syntactically significant or not?
[2021-05-27T00:52:32Z] <riteo> I guess so
[2021-05-27T00:53:02Z] <riteo> I mean, they override field separators basically
[2021-05-27T00:53:05Z] ick quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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[2021-05-27T00:53:58Z] <ick> finally got wayland working, except i can't quit wayfire or my whole laptop freezes and i have to reboot :/
[2021-05-27T00:54:13Z] <noocsharp> i guess if you treat stuff inside quotes differently, you don't have to worry about that
[2021-05-27T00:54:22Z] <noocsharp> ick: nice
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[2021-05-27T01:00:35Z] <midfavila> >be me >want to play some project m >download the Appimage for linux because they don't offer a method to build the emulator myself. w/e >try to start the game >it crashes because my version of gnutls is too old
[2021-05-27T01:00:42Z] <midfavila> wow, such portable
[2021-05-27T01:00:44Z] <midfavila> much convenience
[2021-05-27T01:01:34Z] <noocsharp> wait is gnutls embedded in the appimage?
[2021-05-27T01:01:41Z] <midfavila> you would *think so*&
[2021-05-27T01:01:44Z] <midfavila> but I guess not
[2021-05-27T01:02:00Z] <midfavila> i'm not willing to fuck with it more right now
[2021-05-27T01:02:19Z] <carlosdavidepto> appimages only bundle things which are not "expectable" in a mainstream desktop distro
[2021-05-27T01:02:30Z] <claudia> Has somebody experiemented with KISS_HOOK , to manipulate the depends file?
[2021-05-27T01:02:34Z] <carlosdavidepto> that's more or less the author's take on it
[2021-05-27T01:02:41Z] <acheam> can you give an example claudia
[2021-05-27T01:02:53Z] <acheam> carlosdavidepto: yeah its super annoying
[2021-05-27T01:03:04Z] <midfavila> it's just, like...
[2021-05-27T01:03:13Z] <acheam> like we were *this* close to a perfect static packaging system
[2021-05-27T01:03:13Z] <midfavila> slackware --current isn't *out of date* or anything
[2021-05-27T01:03:14Z] <claudia> acheam: I try something like sed -i '/libX11/d' "$repo_dir/depends"
[2021-05-27T01:03:20Z] <midfavila> it's updated daily
[2021-05-27T01:03:22Z] <claudia> but no effect
[2021-05-27T01:03:33Z] <midfavila> but because it doesn't package the absolute latest version of gnutls now I can't play smash
[2021-05-27T01:03:37Z] <midfavila> and now I'm pissed
[2021-05-27T01:03:37Z] <claudia> one moment for more context
[2021-05-27T01:03:43Z] <acheam> so its not actually doing the sed, claudia ?
[2021-05-27T01:03:50Z] <acheam> thats odd
[2021-05-27T01:04:01Z] <acheam> maybe its a perms issue or something?
[2021-05-27T01:04:05Z] <carlosdavidepto> you can compile gnutls from source, no?
[2021-05-27T01:04:23Z] <claudia> acheam: http://ix.io/3nY1
[2021-05-27T01:04:26Z] <noocsharp> there's a package for it
[2021-05-27T01:04:30Z] <acheam> lol its kiss linux, that's what we do
[2021-05-27T01:04:34Z] <acheam> yeah its in community
[2021-05-27T01:04:44Z] <claudia> Yeah I have it btw..let me check without.
[2021-05-27T01:04:49Z] <midfavila> carlosdavidepto if I went through the effort of setting up slpkg on my slack box then yeah
[2021-05-27T01:04:59Z] <acheam> are you sure its triggering the cases with the sed?
[2021-05-27T01:05:06Z] <acheam> try just printing something maybe
[2021-05-27T01:05:31Z] <claudia> Busybox sed the same.
[2021-05-27T01:05:40Z] <acheam> my prefferd method is just to fork the package /shrug
[2021-05-27T01:05:40Z] <claudia> Yeah printing sounds good let me try
[2021-05-27T01:05:41Z] <acheam> actually
[2021-05-27T01:05:44Z] <claudia> Yeah
[2021-05-27T01:05:46Z] <acheam> I think eudalgr does this
[2021-05-27T01:05:54Z] <claudia> I want to have less forks is the idea..
[2021-05-27T01:05:59Z] <acheam> check out eudalgr/kiss-garbage
[2021-05-27T01:06:04Z] <acheam> and then the gfx subdirectory
[2021-05-27T01:06:05Z] * midfavila forks claudia
[2021-05-27T01:06:12Z] <claudia> try it
[2021-05-27T01:06:17Z] * acheam preps the spice rub
[2021-05-27T01:06:23Z] <midfavila> l-lewd
[2021-05-27T01:06:24Z] <claudia> I have eudalds repo as exmaple
[2021-05-27T01:06:37Z] <acheam> see the readme in the gfx subdirectory
[2021-05-27T01:06:45Z] <acheam> iirc he talks about it there
[2021-05-27T01:06:55Z] <carlosdavidepto> mid just install gkiss. you know you want to
[2021-05-27T01:07:02Z] <acheam> he uses gkiss
[2021-05-27T01:07:03Z] <midfavila> i run gkiss on my workstation
[2021-05-27T01:07:19Z] <midfavila> slack on the media center
[2021-05-27T01:07:20Z] <carlosdavidepto> now i'm confused. you said slackware
[2021-05-27T01:07:27Z] <acheam> or just visit gkiss.com
[2021-05-27T01:07:32Z] <midfavila> disclaimer
[2021-05-27T01:07:35Z] <midfavila> do not visit gkiss.com
[2021-05-27T01:07:44Z] <acheam> claimer
[2021-05-27T01:07:47Z] <acheam> visit gkiss.com
[2021-05-27T01:07:51Z] <midfavila> carlos i have a seperate machine for media that runs slackware
[2021-05-27T01:08:12Z] <acheam> gkiss.com doesn't load for real chads because they have JS disabled
[2021-05-27T01:08:13Z] <carlosdavidepto> ok now i get it
[2021-05-27T01:08:37Z] <midfavila> i don't have games or advanced communications software on my main machine
[2021-05-27T01:08:43Z] <midfavila> it's a feeble attempt to limit distraction
[2021-05-27T01:08:58Z] <acheam> Purple is pretty complex
[2021-05-27T01:09:05Z] <acheam> judging by how often it crashes
[2021-05-27T01:09:07Z] <ick> wait are you saying pidgin is "advanced communications software"
[2021-05-27T01:09:07Z] <midfavila> i said advanced, not complex
[2021-05-27T01:09:18Z] <acheam> yes.
[2021-05-27T01:09:21Z] <midfavila> pidgin is overengineered, but overengineered for a reason
[2021-05-27T01:09:21Z] <acheam> relatively so
[2021-05-27T01:09:46Z] <midfavila> my build doesn't handle anything beyond plaintext
[2021-05-27T01:09:50Z] <GalaxyNova> i went to gkiss.com thinking it was the website for GNU Kiss Linux and have been completely bamboozled
[2021-05-27T01:09:56Z] <midfavila> i wouldn't call that "advanced" acheam
[2021-05-27T01:09:59Z] <midfavila> i was thinking like
[2021-05-27T01:10:06Z] <midfavila> "voice, video, VR, etc"
[2021-05-27T01:10:08Z] <carlosdavidepto> GalaxyNova, you were disclamed
[2021-05-27T01:10:25Z] <midfavila> ...not that I have a VR setup... but god do I want one.
[2021-05-27T01:10:30Z] <acheam> GalaxyNova: you have learned your lesson: to disable js
[2021-05-27T01:10:41Z] <midfavila> gkiss.com should be WotD
[2021-05-27T01:10:44Z] <acheam> midfavila: you sound like a Facebook drown
[2021-05-27T01:10:46Z] <acheam> drone
[2021-05-27T01:10:57Z] <midfavila> did I say oculus
[2021-05-27T01:11:03Z] <midfavila> because I don't think I did
[2021-05-27T01:11:29Z] <midfavila> I just feel like VRChat would be fun. That, and there are a few other games I really enjoy.
[2021-05-27T01:11:56Z] <carlosdavidepto> vrchat would be disastrous for human productivity
[2021-05-27T01:12:00Z] <midfavila> Like... I think it's called Gorn?
[2021-05-27T01:12:08Z] <midfavila> it's this gladitorial combat simulator
[2021-05-27T01:12:15Z] <riteo_> WTF
[2021-05-27T01:12:18Z] <midfavila> kinda silly at times, but still fun
[2021-05-27T01:12:33Z] <riteo_> I THOUGHT TOO THAT GKISS WAS FOR GNU KISS LINUX (which exists)
[2021-05-27T01:12:41Z] <midfavila> (which exists)
[2021-05-27T01:12:46Z] <midfavila> nice clarification
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[2021-05-27T01:12:52Z] <riteo_> yes
[2021-05-27T01:13:03Z] <midfavila> acheam, go sit in the bad op corner
[2021-05-27T01:13:08Z] <midfavila> don't make me get the newspaper, young man
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[2021-05-27T01:17:54Z] <ick> is there a flag to specify for cairo to build cairo-gobject?
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[2021-05-27T01:18:40Z] <midfavila> have you considered checking ./configure --help
[2021-05-27T01:19:22Z] <ick> i didn't no, i looked online and didn't find anything specific. however, there was a cairo-gobject github project which threw me off
[2021-05-27T01:20:50Z] <claudia> acheam: I think kiss resolves all dependencies first before sourcing the the first hook. So no chance to do this yet. https://github.com/kiss-community/kiss/blob/master/kiss Right before there the depencies are solved as I understand.
[2021-05-27T01:21:39Z] <acheam> midfavila: oi I'm not an op anymore
[2021-05-27T01:21:44Z] <acheam> ive been dethroned
[2021-05-27T01:21:49Z] <midfavila> don't correct me, boy
[2021-05-27T01:22:00Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2021-05-27T01:22:04Z] <ick> cairo uses meson
[2021-05-27T01:22:07Z] <acheam> still a GH org member though 😎
[2021-05-27T01:23:10Z] <acheam> ick: pretty much all the gtk/GNOME programs have an introspection/gobject option somewhere in the build
[2021-05-27T01:23:26Z] <acheam> I've built Cairo with it before
[2021-05-27T01:23:37Z] <acheam> I'm on my phone now though so can't check
[2021-05-27T01:23:59Z] <ick> nothing listed in meson_options, i'll keep looking
[2021-05-27T01:24:01Z] <acheam> claudia: hmm interesting
[2021-05-27T01:24:29Z] <acheam> idk what your doing?
[2021-05-27T01:24:48Z] <acheam> just add --enable-introspection to the configure command
[2021-05-27T01:24:56Z] <acheam> I think its that at least
[2021-05-27T01:25:08Z] <acheam> just pulled the package up on my phone
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[2021-05-27T01:26:03Z] <ick> it's my build script, i had -Dglib=disabled which disables gobject support
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[2021-05-27T01:40:00Z] <claudia_> Oh the reverence to kiss I made earlier should have been https://github.com/kiss-community/kiss/blob/master/kiss#L681
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[2021-05-27T01:59:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> man, I really need to get around to configuring epic5...
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[2021-05-27T02:03:30Z] <riteo_> well, I'll go to sleep for now
[2021-05-27T02:03:34Z] <riteo_> bye bye!
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[2021-05-27T02:29:47Z] <nootnoot> I am trying to boot into my kiss linux install (fresh), with syslinux.
[2021-05-27T02:30:16Z] <nootnoot> and it hangs on Loading vmlinuz-(whatever)... ok
[2021-05-27T02:30:47Z] <nootnoot> it is recognizing my kernel executable, so my syslinux config is correct.
[2021-05-27T02:31:04Z] <nootnoot> I am using hummingbird for init, so that may be the issue?
[2021-05-27T02:31:07Z] <midfavila> nope
[2021-05-27T02:31:11Z] <midfavila> i use extlinux and hummingbird.
[2021-05-27T02:31:35Z] <midfavila> sounds like it might be a problem with your graphics firmware. i've run into that a few times
[2021-05-27T02:31:42Z] <midfavila> are you using an AMD GPU?
[2021-05-27T02:31:49Z] <nootnoot> amd and nvidia
[2021-05-27T02:31:56Z] <midfavila> *and* nvidia. hrm.
[2021-05-27T02:31:58Z] <nootnoot> laptop with dGPU and iGPU
[2021-05-27T02:32:11Z] <nootnoot> dGPU is Nvidia, iGPU is amd
[2021-05-27T02:32:14Z] <midfavila> Aaah.
[2021-05-27T02:32:27Z] <nootnoot> Nvidia 2060 super and Ryzen 9 4900hs
[2021-05-27T02:32:45Z] <midfavila> My suggestion would be to compile the AMD GPU's firmware and driver into the kernel
[2021-05-27T02:33:17Z] <midfavila> i can't help you with the nvidia card though. I've never bothered with their hardware.
[2021-05-27T02:33:26Z] <nootnoot> I have, I remember specifically doing that
[2021-05-27T02:33:31Z] <nootnoot> but I will check
[2021-05-27T02:34:30Z] <midfavila> hmm... do you know if you're getting a kernel panic, or if the display just hangs? if you're not getting a panic, could you try and get a dmesg log?
[2021-05-27T02:34:38Z] <nootnoot> display just hangs
[2021-05-27T02:34:57Z] <nootnoot> how would I get a dmesg log? just dmesg in my chroot?
[2021-05-27T02:35:14Z] <midfavila> i mean, normally I just log in and dmesg > out.log
[2021-05-27T02:35:18Z] <nootnoot> ok
[2021-05-27T02:35:22Z] <midfavila> then reboot into a working machine and access that file
[2021-05-27T02:35:30Z] <midfavila> kind of hacky but it works.
[2021-05-27T02:35:53Z] <nootnoot> well the machine just hangs
[2021-05-27T02:35:55Z] <nootnoot> there is no tty
[2021-05-27T02:36:06Z] <midfavila> then you're probably getting a panic.
[2021-05-27T02:36:32Z] <nootnoot> well it should tell me, how would I go about debugging this then
[2021-05-27T02:36:38Z] <midfavila> did you make sure to specify root=/dev/sdx in your config, and also in /etc/fstab? and that the rootfs' driver is compiled into the kernel?
[2021-05-27T02:36:54Z] <nootnoot> I will double check
[2021-05-27T02:36:54Z] <midfavila> and honestly, dude, whenever I run into this sort of situation, I just start throwing stuff at the wall until it works.
[2021-05-27T02:37:10Z] <midfavila> unless you happen to have a second machine and feel like hooking it up as a serial terminal...
[2021-05-27T02:37:32Z] <nootnoot> I just use a live usb, and have no idea what a serial terminal is
[2021-05-27T02:37:41Z] <nootnoot> I do have another machine tho
[2021-05-27T02:38:00Z] <midfavila> well, if you don't know what a serial terminal is, probably wouldn't be the best thing to start poking around at :p
[2021-05-27T02:38:08Z] <midfavila> but basically,
[2021-05-27T02:38:20Z] <midfavila> you can attach a regular tty over an RS232 connection
[2021-05-27T02:38:39Z] <midfavila> and then connect another machine to that, during bootup. that'll bypass any graphical issues.
[2021-05-27T02:38:57Z] <midfavila> if there's a kernel panic in that situation, you'd get the logs on the second machine.
[2021-05-27T02:39:11Z] <nootnoot> I use a laptop, that is new
[2021-05-27T02:39:19Z] <nootnoot> which does not have a RS232 port
[2021-05-27T02:39:26Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-05-27T02:39:40Z] <nootnoot> I have never owned a computer with an RS232 port, which may show my age
[2021-05-27T02:40:20Z] <midfavila> well, RS-232 is way before my time, but it's still an incredibly useful connector to have available in these sorta situations
[2021-05-27T02:40:27Z] <midfavila> i always add at least one to my machines.
[2021-05-27T02:46:47Z] <m3g> ahh, laptop hybrids
[2021-05-27T02:47:57Z] <m3g> I have to load bbswitch and turn the dgpu off on each boot because it stays on and increases internal temperature by like 6-10C
[2021-05-27T02:48:39Z] <m3g> novidya is fun
[2021-05-27T02:51:38Z] * midfavila laughs in intel vidya
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[2021-05-27T03:06:55Z] <midfavila> god, I have so much stuff to do this summer...
[2021-05-27T03:09:39Z] <acheam> so less shitposting on #kisslinux?
[2021-05-27T03:09:44Z] <acheam> I have mixed emotions about that
[2021-05-27T03:09:47Z] <midfavila> probably, yes
[2021-05-27T03:09:52Z] <midfavila> i know, it'll be so boring in here
[2021-05-27T03:09:59Z] <midfavila> who will bully dilyn?
[2021-05-27T03:10:14Z] <acheam> the balance will be off
[2021-05-27T03:10:33Z] <acheam> I'll still give him so many little things to do, and nobody to bully him
[2021-05-27T03:10:42Z] <midfavila> i designate Sweets the backup Dilyn-bullier
[2021-05-27T03:11:42Z] <midfavila> but yeah, I want to get through K&R, SICP, HtDP, and Intro to Algos, plus Algebra 1 and 2, as well as prec-calc and statistics
[2021-05-27T03:11:57Z] <midfavila> and then there's a bunch of little utility software I need to write, like an xclock replacement
[2021-05-27T03:12:06Z] <midfavila> and I have to build at least one desk
[2021-05-27T03:12:11Z] <acheam> what's wrong with xclock?
[2021-05-27T03:12:19Z] <midfavila> there's nothing strictly wrong with it
[2021-05-27T03:12:23Z] <acheam> physical or in fvwm?
[2021-05-27T03:12:26Z] <midfavila> it's a fine problem posessed of many fine qualities
[2021-05-27T03:12:28Z] <midfavila> physical
[2021-05-27T03:12:32Z] <acheam> oh
[2021-05-27T03:12:34Z] <midfavila> however, xclock is overcomplex
[2021-05-27T03:12:47Z] <acheam> as is most software starting with x
[2021-05-27T03:12:51Z] <midfavila> i don't regularly change my format strings, I don't need an analog mode, I don't need bitmap support...
[2021-05-27T03:13:08Z] <midfavila> raw XLib should be plenty to draw a formatted digital clock.
[2021-05-27T03:13:11Z] <acheam> the feature creep is real in 35yr old pieces of software
[2021-05-27T03:13:22Z] <midfavila> i hate to admit it, but yes
[2021-05-27T03:13:29Z] <acheam> just git reset to the initial git commit
[2021-05-27T03:13:34Z] <midfavila> another thing I want to do is write my own display manager
[2021-05-27T03:13:35Z] <acheam> boom
[2021-05-27T03:13:37Z] <midfavila> based on WDM
[2021-05-27T03:14:01Z] <acheam> that reminds me I need to package ly
[2021-05-27T03:14:04Z] <midfavila> WDM is like if you took all the good parts of XDM and stuck them in a smaller, more aesthetically-pleasing package
[2021-05-27T03:14:12Z] <midfavila> the downside is that WDM requires WindowMaker
[2021-05-27T03:14:26Z] <midfavila> ...and also it's based on the XDM codebase
[2021-05-27T03:14:31Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-05-27T03:14:57Z] <midfavila> so I figure I could take the core concepts of X/WDM, drop all the legacy junk, and then slap a GTK2 GUI on it
[2021-05-27T03:15:00Z] <midfavila> and just kind of call it a day.
[2021-05-27T03:15:41Z] <midfavila> an image viewer would be nice, too
[2021-05-27T03:15:43Z] <midfavila> i don't like sxiv
[2021-05-27T03:16:13Z] <midfavila> and I've gotta replace axel, because it's crusty and poorly-formatted
[2021-05-27T03:16:45Z] <midfavila> having a simpler alternative to stalonetray would be nice, as well. and maybe attempt to write an SFTP client for dropbear..?
[2021-05-27T03:16:57Z] <midfavila> these are all huge ifs
[2021-05-27T03:17:09Z] <midfavila> maybe even a switch statement
[2021-05-27T03:18:06Z] <midfavila> armed with putchar and getchar, I stand ready to take the world head-on
[2021-05-27T03:23:46Z] <acheam> bruh switch statements only work on integers
[2021-05-27T03:23:59Z] <midfavila> stfu
[2021-05-27T03:24:00Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2021-05-27T03:24:06Z] <acheam> those look like char array pointers to me
[2021-05-27T03:24:15Z] <midfavila> chars are just smol ints
[2021-05-27T03:24:23Z] <midfavila> so it's okay
[2021-05-27T03:24:40Z] <midfavila> anyway, it's half past midnight
[2021-05-27T03:24:41Z] <midfavila> i need to sleep
[2021-05-27T03:56:48Z] <m3g> gn
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[2021-05-27T04:25:33Z] <testuser[m]> hi
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[2021-05-27T05:03:22Z] <acheam> hello testuser[m]
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[2021-05-27T06:49:24Z] yamchah2- changed nick to yamchah2
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[2021-05-27T11:10:46Z] <zenomat> i finally took it upon myself to create another user next to root after 2 months of using this install
[2021-05-27T11:27:45Z] <ang> that is something, lol
[2021-05-27T11:28:03Z] <zenomat> security best practices? smh
[2021-05-27T11:28:15Z] <ang> on my latest install the first thing I did before building any packages is create a user
[2021-05-27T11:29:34Z] <zenomat> i was probaly just to lazy at that moment. i created another user at one point, because I tested a package, but never bothered to switch to him
[2021-05-27T11:30:53Z] <ang> heh
[2021-05-27T11:31:19Z] <ang> migrating now must've way more painful though, I suppose
[2021-05-27T11:31:33Z] <ang> must've been*
[2021-05-27T11:31:47Z] <zenomat> i am in the middle of it. it is not that hard until now. audio isnt working tho
[2021-05-27T11:31:53Z] <zenomat> so working on that right now
[2021-05-27T11:32:47Z] <ang> my newest install is on a thinkpad and everything just werks, I'm quite impressed
[2021-05-27T11:34:13Z] dbrooke__ changed nick to dbrooke
[2021-05-27T11:35:04Z] <zenomat> it doesnt find any soundcards, why?
[2021-05-27T11:35:46Z] <ang> you sure you have all the required drivers build into the kernel?
[2021-05-27T11:35:58Z] <zenomat> yeah, it works on the root user
[2021-05-27T11:36:23Z] <ang> is your user in the audio group?
[2021-05-27T11:36:41Z] <zenomat> should be, added him
[2021-05-27T11:36:52Z] <ang> addgroup zenomat audio
[2021-05-27T11:36:56Z] <ang> ok
[2021-05-27T11:37:10Z] <zenomat> yeah, he is in audio
[2021-05-27T11:37:17Z] <zenomat> doublechecked right now
[2021-05-27T11:37:45Z] <ang> for the new groups to take effect, you have to log out and in
[2021-05-27T11:37:56Z] <zenomat> oh alright. let me do that
[2021-05-27T11:39:23Z] <zenomat> i guess it is as easy as taht
[2021-05-27T11:39:26Z] <zenomat> thanks
[2021-05-27T11:39:47Z] <ang> haha, you are welcome
[2021-05-27T11:39:58Z] <zenomat> turning it on and off again^^
[2021-05-27T11:40:07Z] <ang> lol, literally
[2021-05-27T11:40:38Z] <ang> now I wonder if you only need a new login shell or what
[2021-05-27T11:42:49Z] <ang> apparently not
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[2021-05-27T11:46:43Z] <zenomat> so you have to completly log out?
[2021-05-27T11:47:23Z] _whitelogger joined
[2021-05-27T11:47:57Z] <ang> yep, it has to go through login(1) I guess
[2021-05-27T11:48:25Z] <zenomat> makes sense, i guess
[2021-05-27T11:50:15Z] <ang> jslick: I'm getting a "./autogen.sh: line 5: autoconf: command not found" not found when building powertop
[2021-05-27T11:50:24Z] <ang> I should have all the auto* crap
[2021-05-27T11:50:53Z] <ang> s/not found //
[2021-05-27T11:55:29Z] <testuser[m]> it only has autoconf-archive in deps and autoconf-archive doesnt have a dep on autoconf and automake
[2021-05-27T11:55:50Z] <ang> zenomat: fun fact, you can also simply call `login` in a terminal to refresh groups for that terminal
[2021-05-27T11:56:52Z] <ang> I didn't actually have automake, oops
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[2021-05-27T12:49:49Z] <testuser[m]> hey claudia
[2021-05-27T12:51:21Z] <claudia> aloha o/
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[2021-05-27T13:40:08Z] <dilyn> these red x's are more annoying than I anticipated.
[2021-05-27T13:42:13Z] <testuser[m]> wat
[2021-05-27T13:45:15Z] <testuser[m]> oh
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[2021-05-27T13:56:49Z] <jslick> ang sorry I didn't test it in a clean chroot; I'll try to remember to fix depends today
[2021-05-27T13:58:20Z] <ang> np
[2021-05-27T14:06:37Z] <testuser[m]> dilyn: https://termbin.com/6xah
[2021-05-27T14:07:01Z] <claudia> The fsf will hold a meeting tomorrow about staying or leaving #fsf on freenode. https://www.fsf.org/events/community-meeting-on-the-future-of-our-irc-presence
[2021-05-27T14:07:34Z] <claudia> In another channel was said, that andrew lee will prob participate, so could be interesting :v
[2021-05-27T14:08:18Z] <dilyn> `Assessing alternate IRC networks (Libera, OFTC); and` uhoh they better watch out
[2021-05-27T14:08:25Z] <dilyn> their channel might get taken and their ops removed
[2021-05-27T14:12:29Z] <testuser[m]> anyone running mksh?
[2021-05-27T14:13:09Z] <testuser[m]> it doesn't seem to like `"${@:?No packages installed}"`
[2021-05-27T14:15:31Z] <midfavila> yeah, mksh can be funky
[2021-05-27T14:17:22Z] <midfavila> also, hundred bucks that FSF moves to libera
[2021-05-27T14:18:44Z] <ang> testuser[m]: we could change the @ to 1 to be more portable I guess
[2021-05-27T14:19:03Z] <midfavila> muh poosix
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[2021-05-27T14:19:51Z] <ang> I think there are quite a few "ash'isms" in kiss actually
[2021-05-27T14:20:10Z] <ang> stuff which is undefined behaviour by posix
[2021-05-27T14:20:46Z] <testuser[m]> 1 wont get all the args though
[2021-05-27T14:21:48Z] june joined
[2021-05-27T14:22:01Z] <ang> isn't it just checking if there is any arg at all?
[2021-05-27T14:23:56Z] <ang> no, you are right, it checks if any arg is empty it seems
[2021-05-27T14:24:29Z] <testuser[m]> it sends all args to pkg build
[2021-05-27T14:26:50Z] <nerditup> o/
[2021-05-27T14:29:54Z] <lastchansen> \o
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[2021-05-27T14:58:21Z] <riteo> hii!
[2021-05-27T14:58:26Z] <zenomat> hey
[2021-05-27T15:09:59Z] <testuser[m]> hi riteo
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[2021-05-27T15:39:39Z] <testuser[m]> do irc web clients hide your ip ?
[2021-05-27T15:40:53Z] <dilyn> doesn't seem like (/whois dilyn)
[2021-05-27T15:51:58Z] <kiedtl> testuser[m]: webclients forward your IP/hostname to the server
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[2021-05-27T16:35:08Z] <dilyn> testuser: #422 all good to go? lgtm
[2021-05-27T16:58:44Z] Sweets joined
[2021-05-27T16:59:05Z] <testuser[m]> dilyn: yeah
[2021-05-27T17:09:53Z] <testuser[m]> btw looks like a dedicated homeserver has been setup.for bridging libera.chat channels
[2021-05-27T17:14:15Z] testuser[m]1 joined
[2021-05-27T17:14:37Z] <testuser[m]1> Msg
[2021-05-27T17:17:55Z] <claudia> msg works
[2021-05-27T17:19:31Z] <testuser[m]> can you be IDENTIFIed on 2 clients at once
[2021-05-27T17:19:37Z] <kiedtl> yeah
[2021-05-27T17:19:42Z] <kiedtl> but can't use the same nick >:C
[2021-05-27T17:22:57Z] testuser[m]12 joined
[2021-05-27T17:36:53Z] <yamchah2> is the ip address viewable even with a cloak? im an irc noob
[2021-05-27T17:37:35Z] <riteo> I don't think so, but I'm a noob too
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[2021-05-27T17:42:12Z] testuser[m]12 changed nick to testuser[m]
[2021-05-27T17:43:12Z] <june> there are apparently Ways of determining a user's IP even with cloak
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[2021-05-27T17:43:51Z] <june> which is why they recommend if you care strongly about it to use a VPS, VPN, tor, etc.
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[2021-05-27T17:44:22Z] <testuser[m]> Username test
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[2021-05-27T17:58:05Z] <lastchansen> works
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[2021-05-27T18:26:01Z] <honeyedbee> Well, and the cloak only works on users, anyone with power can see right through it, so it's not exactly secure.
[2021-05-27T18:26:40Z] <honeyedbee> Like if Harry Potters invisibility cloak didn't work on teachers.
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[2021-05-27T18:27:22Z] <yamchah2> i like the analogy
[2021-05-27T18:27:36Z] <yamchah2> you can use irc with tor right?
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[2021-05-27T18:27:43Z] <yamchah2> to mitigate this risk somewhat
[2021-05-27T18:29:48Z] <honeyedbee> Most of the time yeah. Freenode used to insist you identify with sasl if you were connecting via tor, meaning you'd have to have connected once without it to register. Dunno if libera.chat is following that rule.
[2021-05-27T18:30:19Z] <honeyedbee> I guess it wasn't that hard to work around, just log in from a coffee shop or something.
[2021-05-27T18:30:54Z] <kiedtl> Yeah, TOR generates a lot of abuse so the SASL rule was added to mitigate that
[2021-05-27T18:31:38Z] <honeyedbee> Makes sense.
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[2021-05-27T20:37:12Z] <andrey>
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[2021-05-27T20:37:57Z] <kiedtl> wut
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[2021-05-27T20:56:14Z] <andrey>
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[2021-05-27T21:01:46Z] <kiedtl> andrey: what?
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[2021-05-27T21:08:30Z] <midfavila> ASCII pl0x andrey
[2021-05-27T21:14:52Z] <june> ^L is ascii
[2021-05-27T21:15:44Z] <midfavila> s/ASCII/visible ASCII/
[2021-05-27T21:15:45Z] <midfavila> there
[2021-05-27T21:16:46Z] <june> andrey is just trying to get to the next page
[2021-05-27T21:17:22Z] <kiedtl> okay, just saw some blank spaces there
[2021-05-27T21:17:34Z] <andrey> Why does everybody keeps mentioning me? Did I do something wrong? It is my first time useing irc
[2021-05-27T21:17:36Z] <kiedtl> it's an interesting irc client that doesn't capture ^L and redraw
[2021-05-27T21:17:48Z] <kiedtl> andrey: no worries, a couple blank messages from you were appearing
[2021-05-27T21:18:01Z] <june> andrey: you sent a bunch of ^L control codes
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[2021-05-27T21:18:32Z] <dilyn> :o did it work
[2021-05-27T21:18:39Z] <midfavila> ??????
[2021-05-27T21:18:43Z] <dilyn> sick
[2021-05-27T21:18:44Z] <midfavila> are you guys seeing their messages?
[2021-05-27T21:18:54Z] <dilyn> test failed successfully
[2021-05-27T21:19:10Z] <dilyn> no, test unsuccessfully failed
[2021-05-27T21:19:12Z] <dilyn> gr
[2021-05-27T21:19:20Z] <june> which test are you trying to fail
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[2021-05-27T21:34:11Z] <kernelc> Do I need mesa for wlroots based wayland compositor?
[2021-05-27T21:34:41Z] <dilyn> ...yes
[2021-05-27T21:34:44Z] <dilyn> I believe
[2021-05-27T21:34:54Z] <dilyn> june: a bouncer
[2021-05-27T21:35:15Z] <dilyn> if you don't want mesa your best bet is probably swc/wld/velox
[2021-05-27T21:35:19Z] <kernelc> dilyn: And AFAIK mesa depends on half of X11/xorg…?
[2021-05-27T21:35:40Z] <kernelc> dilyn: I had hard time compiling swc etc
[2021-05-27T21:36:20Z] <kqz> you can compile mesa without X11
[2021-05-27T21:36:47Z] <dilyn> just remove x11 from the platforms list (replace with wayland) and don't build glx
[2021-05-27T21:37:05Z] <dilyn> como asi https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/blob/master/extra/mesa/build
[2021-05-27T21:42:05Z] <kernelc> thanks!
[2021-05-27T21:42:11Z] <dilyn> ofc
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[2021-05-27T21:47:37Z] <acheam> the way that dilyn just said "a bouncer" makes me think its not pounce
[2021-05-27T21:52:09Z] <cem> acheam: dilyn is probably not using pounce because of his non-gpl circlejerk
[2021-05-27T21:52:28Z] <GalaxyNova> isn't KISS liscensed under the GPL?
[2021-05-27T21:52:30Z] <GalaxyNova> lol
[2021-05-27T21:52:32Z] <acheam> no
[2021-05-27T21:52:33Z] <acheam> mit
[2021-05-27T21:52:38Z] <acheam> cem: oh right
[2021-05-27T21:53:06Z] <acheam> I just need to cleanroon rewrite the causal.agency irc suite in public domain
[2021-05-27T21:53:07Z] <dilyn> I use gpl software
[2021-05-27T21:53:15Z] <acheam> *gasp*
[2021-05-27T21:53:16Z] <dilyn> just not on my daily driver :)
[2021-05-27T21:53:30Z] <cem> Linoox dilyn linoox
[2021-05-27T21:53:32Z] <dilyn> only *some* things are GPL so I accept it
[2021-05-27T21:53:37Z] <dilyn> not catgirl tho. sad :'(
[2021-05-27T21:53:50Z] <dilyn> petition for june to relicense
[2021-05-27T21:54:34Z] <june> no
[2021-05-27T21:54:39Z] <cem> petition for dilyn to add "crying in the" as his middle name
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[2021-05-27T21:54:48Z] <dilyn> f
[2021-05-27T21:54:54Z] <cem> f
[2021-05-27T21:55:12Z] <acheam> f
[2021-05-27T21:55:17Z] <june> look, GNU never wrote any good software under the GPL, so someone has to
[2021-05-27T21:55:27Z] <cem> true
[2021-05-27T21:55:35Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-05-27T21:55:40Z] <acheam> petition to include catgirl in busybox
[2021-05-27T21:55:49Z] <dilyn> i mean, you ~could~
[2021-05-27T21:56:07Z] <acheam> heck why not just include linux in busybox
[2021-05-27T21:56:41Z] <acheam> turn it from the swiss army knife of embedded computing to the swiss army machine gun of embedded computing
[2021-05-27T21:56:56Z] <noocsharp> i think telnet is busybox's catgirl
[2021-05-27T21:57:00Z] <cem> acheam: busybox has an irc client
[2021-05-27T21:57:05Z] <cem> netcat
[2021-05-27T21:57:07Z] <cem> duh
[2021-05-27T21:57:33Z] <acheam> n(o) c(idding)
[2021-05-27T21:58:42Z] <dilyn> imagine a ten megabyte busybox *shudder*
[2021-05-27T21:59:04Z] <june> a very busy box
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[2021-05-27T22:30:58Z] <riteo> fullbox
[2021-05-27T22:31:45Z] <riteo> box overflow
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[2021-05-27T22:35:37Z] <Guest5412> Did kisslinux change its irc server? I don't use irc too often, but I think that it used to be on freenode.
[2021-05-27T22:36:11Z] <kiedtl> Guest5412: yeah, we jumped onto the libera bandwagon :^))
[2021-05-27T22:53:44Z] <dilyn> I like to think freenode is the volunteers :v
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[2021-05-27T23:03:24Z] <kiedtl> yup
[2021-05-27T23:03:38Z] <kiedtl> the network is the community, not the parent company/domain name
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