💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-10-24.txt captured on 2021-12-17 at 13:26:06.
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2020-10-24T01:41:57 #kisslinux <sbilik> Been finding sowm glitches with sending the GUI Emacs to other workspaces. i.e. Launch on WS 1. Send to WS 2. Go to 2. No Emacs. Go to 3. Then back to 2. There it is. 2020-10-24T01:43:40 #kisslinux <sbilik> Tried it on 2bwm since it's a bit like sowm (albeit xcb vs xlib), but it works reliably there. 2020-10-24T01:49:48 #kisslinux <sbilik> I see this behavior both on x64 and arm64 builds of sowm 2020-10-24T05:22:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/ 2020-10-24T10:57:16 #kisslinux <sbilik> Dylan, I've been debugging this for about a week. Is this a known problem? Is there something I can do to help triage why it disappears like that?? 2020-10-24T13:12:18 #kisslinux <nerditup> I'm reading through this PR[1] <The fstab is NOT required>, and was wondering if this means without fstab, you have to mount the devices on boot everytime or the kernel will automatically mount proc, sysfs, etc. since it gets ROOTFS from the commandline options? [1] - https://github.com/kisslinux/wiki/pull/73/files#diff-0bdca94d05034bdd7392059fd26134035c3b9f9535df29507b496ed6fc4cb7c9R500 2020-10-24T13:12:47 #kisslinux <nerditup> I think it's time for some experimenting 2020-10-24T16:09:40 #kisslinux <dilynm> nerditup:the kernel can mount things like /dev. Init will mount proc etc for you 2020-10-24T16:10:20 #kisslinux <dilynm> An fstab is read by `mount`. It 2ill mount any partitions given there they way you want then to mounted and where you want them to be mounted 2020-10-24T16:11:00 #kisslinux <dilynm> So theoretically you could tell it to mount sysfs at /biteMe and make it mount ro,remount-on-error 2020-10-24T16:11:49 #kisslinux <dilynm> Sorry if that's gibberish I haven't had my coffee yet and I'm teaching someone how to make it (: 2020-10-24T16:18:37 #kisslinux <nerditup> Ahh makes sense, I wonder if its useful to put in the filesystems that get mounted by the kernel (without any configuration) in that doc? 2020-10-24T16:22:22 #kisslinux <nerditup> I enjoy knowing the minimal amount of config required to do things lol 2020-10-24T16:28:30 #kisslinux <nerditup> Random question for the group (as this morning has been a morning of learning!) - why would the checksums of two binary files I compiled would be different? I did a test where I setup 2 kiss chroots, ran kiss update on both and the resulting binaries differ (I ran diff outside of the chroots on both directories). 2020-10-24T16:29:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's a really good question actually 2020-10-24T16:29:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm not entirely sure. Maybe the timestamps are factored in or something? Or different compile flags..? 2020-10-24T16:30:49 #kisslinux <dilynm> It would be useful because you would remount the same filesystems and waste time xD I wouldn't bother 2020-10-24T16:31:30 #kisslinux <dilynm> The minimal config is no fstab. Just mount /boot when you upgrade your kernel, use a boot script for swap, and put mounting tmpfs as a hook 2020-10-24T16:35:04 #kisslinux <nerditup> midfavila: it was very surprising to me 2020-10-24T16:35:53 #kisslinux <nerditup> Compiler, linker, libraries are all the same (they don't show up in the diff) 2020-10-24T16:36:18 #kisslinux <nerditup> dilynm: the ideal setup! 2020-10-24T16:39:22 #kisslinux <nerditup> apparently binary reproducability is a hard problem 2020-10-24T16:40:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> >tfw my file manager of all things requires bash as a hard dependency 2020-10-24T16:40:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> fucking hell 2020-10-24T16:41:16 #kisslinux <dilynm> Use dolphin! (: 2020-10-24T16:41:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> >qt 2020-10-24T16:41:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> eh 2020-10-24T16:42:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> I try to restrict my GUI to xlib and gtk2 2020-10-24T16:42:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> I used to use EmelFM2, but... god, the UI is so awful 2020-10-24T16:47:28 #kisslinux <onodera> nerditup: maybe one linked to more dependencies or something? 2020-10-24T16:48:30 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nerditup, what you talk about is also called "reproducible builds" and it's trickier than would think 2020-10-24T16:48:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> most likely culprit are timestamps and build ids 2020-10-24T16:49:39 #kisslinux <nerditup> So strange, I am going to run a couple more tests to see. I can definitely reproduce 2020-10-24T16:50:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> big distros like debian or suse have entire teams working on reproducibility issues 2020-10-24T16:52:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the first thing one should do is patch binutils ar and busybox tar to not emit timestamps 2020-10-24T16:54:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> see for reference https://github.com/richfelker/musl-cross-make/pull/62/files 2020-10-24T17:44:29 #kisslinux <nerditup> sh4rm4^bnc: interesting, would it be enough to configure binutils with the --enable-deterministic-archives on x86_64? 2020-10-24T17:46:20 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yes 2020-10-24T17:46:48 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> that should probably fix 90% of the reproducibility issues you encounter 2020-10-24T18:09:58 #kisslinux <nerditup> sh4rm4^bnc: you're right, I was able eliminate the differences in the .a files! 2020-10-24T18:10:40 #kisslinux <nerditup> I updated the binutils build script locally and rebuilt binutils itself, then did an update (on both test chroots) and there was no longer any difference between the library files 2020-10-24T18:11:52 #kisslinux <nerditup> follow-up question, I noticed the tar.gz files differ in ~/.cache/kiss/bin/*.tar.gz between chroots, where do these files come from? 2020-10-24T18:20:10 #kisslinux <nerditup> Is there any reason I don't want to add the `--enable-deterministic-archives` flag on the binutils build script by default? 2020-10-24T18:28:12 #kisslinux <dilynm> Presumably if you want to keep the unique and identifying information binutils generates you wouldn't want it 2020-10-24T18:28:35 #kisslinux <dilynm> So that would be things like maybe timestamps and who knows what else that isn't necessary for the binary 2020-10-24T18:39:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nerditup, that's the second thing i brought up earlier: tar also adds timestamps 2020-10-24T18:39:39 #kisslinux <nerditup> Ah gotcha 2020-10-24T18:40:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you could fix the differences by running a script before tarring that sets all timestamps to a predefined value 2020-10-24T18:41:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> (the mtime/atime of the files being tarred) 2020-10-24T18:43:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> additionally, gzip adds a timestamp too: https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage/blob/master/pkg/kernel414#L73 2020-10-24T22:18:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> onodera, what happened to https://github.com/wm4 ? 2020-10-24T22:43:17 #kisslinux <onodera> sh4rm4^bnc: he deleted his account after some argument on the mpv irc channel 2020-10-24T22:43:31 #kisslinux <onodera> was about him being rude and making rash decisions regarding gnome support 2020-10-24T22:44:11 #kisslinux <onodera> oh wait actually someone removed him from the mpv organization also 2020-10-24T22:44:16 #kisslinux <onodera> he was the main dev so kinda stupid 2020-10-24T22:44:39 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> indeed, also he had some interestign stuff on his github 2020-10-24T22:44:44 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> like boringlang 2020-10-24T22:45:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> or libcrap, the dbus interface lib 2020-10-24T22:49:23 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the argument can't be that long ago, iirc i looked at something on his GH at most a week ago 2020-10-24T23:00:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> heh, this was his last commit https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/commit/67b4a96e4592a6bf95a86ebcc8f6c5e951fe327d 2020-10-24T23:10:26 #kisslinux <nerditup> Just went through the process of making a PR to add `--enable-deterministic-archives` to the binutils build script only to see that I can't open a PR against core :( 2020-10-24T23:10:52 #kisslinux <nerditup> Thought it would be a sane default to add (Debian and FreeBSD both have it enabled since 2015) 2020-10-24T23:11:40 #kisslinux <nerditup> Maybe Dylan can see this and think about adding it on my behalf when he's up for the day 2020-10-24T23:29:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i've never seen a GH repo with PRs disabled, afaik that's not possible 2020-10-24T23:29:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i usually use that as a backdoor to comment on repos that have issues disabled