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Tangentially related: Boston Dynamics' BigDog, which utilizes hydraulic actuators, would constantly leak hydraulic fluid while operating, be it through normal weepage or catastrophic leaks (e.g. burst hoses). Initially, they used petroleum-based hydraulic fluid, but as they began to operate out in the woods etc, this proved to be untenable, so they eventually switched to using a vegetable-based hydraulic fluid that would biodegrade within a month.
Bonus: when catastrophic hydraulic leaks inevitably occurred and sprayed hot hydraulic fluid over the hot exhaust, you would be rewarded with the lovely smell of a deep fryer!
The more traditional kind of dog leaks all the time as well
The hydraulic autopilot steering system in my boat uses a biodegradable soy-based hydraulic fluid, and it’s at least 20 years old. Similar non-marine products are readily available on amazon.
https://www.pocomarine.com/shop/garmin-tr-1-biosoy-hydraulic...
My paper shredder's user manual recommends* periodically shredding a paper with oil drizzled on it for lubrication. It says vegetable oil is fine.
This surprises me; vegetable oil gets sticky as it oxidizes. I would have expected something like mineral oil.
I don't know about other manufacturers, but Fellowes brand shredder oil is just expensive canola oil.
Some of my scuba diving friends go ice diving in Canadian lakes. They use chainsaws to cut access holes through the ice, and always lubricate those chainsaws with vegetable oil so as not to contaminate the water with petrochemicals.
Didn't even know that was a thing! Will have to look into getting the cert.
Could you engineer a chainsaw that doesn't need lubrication? Maybe a dynamic tensioner that pulls the chain taught instead of riding on a frame? Or what about rethinking the design entirely and using a long screw with cutting teeth all along it (no metal on metal moving parts)?
This does not jibe with my experiences or anybody I know's experiences, I think it needs more development. I've had friends who used vegetable oils then they dried out or worse turned rancid and gummed stuff up. Especially bad if a tool is left for a while, or in a hot place, though I guess this is not so much a problem in Europe. This doesn't seem like a significant enough problem to justify that anyway, "thousands of gallons" across a continent is not actually that much.
When you say they used "vegetable oils", do you mean they used a vegetable oil bought from the grocery store, or that they used one of the blended biodegradable oils specifically made for chainsaws?
I've used both the Stihl Bioplus (
https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels...
) and Husqvarna XGuard (
https://www.baileysonline.com/husqvarna-x-guard-bar-chain-oi...
) for a couple years now, and have no complaints other than the price. I do occasionally switch to back to mineral oil when I run out, so perhaps this has helped me to avoid problems.
If you look at history you'll find that animal and plant oils were used as lubricants for a long time, but were replaced by petroleum specifically because of those problems you noted.
Christmas tree farms. They plant tiny forests and cut down every tree, running saws for many hours. I grew up near Christmas tree farms in Western Oregon, and its an odd but significant agricultural activity in certain areas. Over multiple plantings the amount of oil sprayed around could cause issues. In the area where I lived some farms have converted to wineries, so that somewhat marginal land does get converted back to food production.
Indeed, gas engines probably drip or exhaust more oil. Certainly 2 stroke chainsaws.
There's a rumor among cyclists that "3 in 1 oil" is bad for bikes because it contains vegetable oil that gums up. But cyclists will debate about oil for days.
Same with guitar players and fingerboard oils. Use mineral oil because it's food-safe and won't go rancid. Same reason I use it on my cutting board.
Wait a moment. Mineral oils are food-safe?
Don't they accumulate in the body and act as endocrine disruptors?
Mineral oil is commonly used to coat/maintain butcher block cutting boards, and as a storage coating on high carbon knives. It is recognized as safe by the FDA when produced according to food safety guidelines and under quality control.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfr...
To my knowledge it can absorb a little through the skin but not through the intestines though more than a little will give you the shits something bad.
Cyclists debate about oil for days. Cycle mechanics just use WD40.
The article says it's not straight vegetable oil, but lubricants "based" on vegetable oil, specifically with additives to address oxidation (going rancid).
Reminds me I used a drop on a ThinkPad x60 noisy CPU fan. It held long enough. Not that this anecdote means much.
If you read the article it isn't just the thousands of gallons, it is also breathing petroleum aerosols, etc.
These foresters seem to have good experiences with it-
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=90186.0
Have any studies been done on breathing vegetable oil aerosols?
We'll probably get some solid observational data, due to the rise of vaping, but that will take a few years.
I've been lubricating my chainsaw with vegetable oil because one of its uses is chunking up wood for my smoker.
They refer to 'thousands of gallons of chain-and-bar oil... carried into the forests' every year
Is this quantity significant?
By “significant” I take you to mean, “causing enough harm to be noticeable.” I don’t know the answer to that.
Consider that chainsaws are only one of many polluting tools that people use in forests, e.g., snowmobiles, generators, of course cars. There are many non-petroleum pollutants as well, like lead ammunition and trash. I believe it’s a useful practice to reduce harm from each of these as much as possible. That reduction might come from banning them outright to small changes like using vegetable oil as chainsaw lube.
The opposite approach is requiring harm to be demonstrated by each of these small things in order to encourage or require change. This has gotten us roughly to where we are now, with much wilderness in the country despoiled by human practices.
All of us are better served by being conservative in this context: by intentionally doing the least harmful things possible, and looking for ways to improve.
Being pedantic, any quantity >= 2000 would be "thousands", so...maybe?
Or does it matter that the petroleum came from the forests, the deserts and some underseas equivalents? Petroleum is a natural thing.
There are no doubt problems with the refined versions of petroleum but natural oils have issues too.
The right solution might still be to ban petroleum oils from this job. But it seems foolish to pretend they are any less natural than vegetable oils.
petroleum, in its natural form directly as you dig it out of the ground, is incredibly toxic and absolutely capable of killing you. areas with exposed petroleum deposits are uninhabitable by humans or (most) wildlife. exposing petroleum deposits that were otherwise covered deep underground, or dumping petroleum to an area where it isn't naturally occuring pollutes that area and makes it unsafe. just because something is natural doesn't make it fine.
nobody is worrying about how "natural" petroleum is, because that's irrelevant. vegetable oils are non-toxic and biodegradable. petroleum-based oils are not.
It’s true that literally everything on Earth is natural by definition, either naturally-occurring or produced by natural forces like erosion or beavers or humans. But that’s tautological, and not interesting.
Refined petroleum does not occur naturally and is toxic to all life. Vegetable oils are produced by stepping on or chewing nuts or vegetables. There is no comparison.
> Vegetable oils are produced by stepping on or chewing nuts or vegetables.
Not really. Rapeseed/Canola oil in particular involves extensive use of solvents, bleaches, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfk2IXlZdbI
Using some Mazola on my chainsaw because I can't find or didn't buy proper oils sounds like a typical thing I'd do (that people will shame me for but I don't care)
Admittedly my chainsaw is a small cheap electric one, but still. Unsurprising to me that it turns out it is ok to use what I have on hand.
The article talks about "canola based oils". Has anyone used just plain canola oil to do the job?
I’ve been using only canola oil for my chainsaw for the last 3 years. No problems so far. I use it about every 2-4 months
This is absolutely fascinating. Never thought of using this. These are the kinds of stories I come to HN for.