💾 Archived View for gemini.susa.net › cgi-bin › gemini-irc captured on 2021-11-30 at 20:18:30. Gemini links have been rewritten to link to archived content
⬅️ Previous capture (2020-11-07)
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noodlez: https://cyberspace.baby/amfora
Seek's link to 'https://cyberspace.baby/amfora'
now just need to proxy gemini:// over websockets :P
https://github.com/eddieantonio/imgcat
epoch's link to 'https://github.com/eddieantonio/imgcat'
" iTerm's imgcat overrides this program by default. "
Seek: wasm?
yeah
imgcat doesn't seem to use sixels
https://github.com/eddieantonio/imgcat/search?q=sixel
epoch's link to 'https://github.com/eddieantonio/imgcat/search?q=sixel'
i just ported senpai (https://cyberspace.baby/senpai) which also uses tcell, so the process is fresh
Seek's link to '(https://cyberspace.baby/senpai)'
tee hee. sixels for inline images over gemini.
https://ttm.sh/elH.png Kitty's built in icat works, though.
noodlez's link to 'https://ttm.sh/elH.png'
sixel graphics are awesome.
amora is actually great for viewing images. Just set your image viewer in the config and when you encounter an image file it will open in it.
foot terminal supports sixel.
I'm using foot terminal and lsix to view thumbnails of my Picture folder on my Pinephone
nice flex :P
I've looked into the tmux sixel thing before because I am usually inside tmux. I think there was a fork or maybe a branch working on it but nothing fully done at the time.
I haven't checked in on that in a while though.
Apparently there's three major formats: sixel, iterm2, and kitty. Only kitty supports kitty. seems most terminals that support these graphics also support iterm2's stuff.
Seemed I had to get a different imgcat, there's quite a few different ones floating around. Doesn't work in tmux regardless, though.
does Amfora support terminal hyperlinks/
also, do many clients support ANSI colors on pages?
all of the terminal based ones that don't filter them out?
and I think one GUI client
Seek: Unfortunately I think Lagrange might support ANSI colours. Sadly.
Arahael: you don't like such colours? :P
oh, sad because it might attract me to Lagrange :P
It's not part of the gemini specification, so no.
Today it's ANSI colours. Tomorrow it's "now with Sixel support".
And we'll suddenly have random gemini sites with inline graphics using sixel.
then we can add forms
(ノ°Д°）ノ︵ ┻━┻
is TOFU the primary / only supported cert validation in Gemini?
or is regular PKI used too
regular PKI is used sometimes
TOFU and PKI can work at the same time
like how you can use SSHFP records
Seek: What do you mean by terminal hyperlinks?
kel: https://gist.github.com/egmontkob/eb114294efbcd5adb1944c9f3cb5feda
Seek's link to 'https://gist.github.com/egmontkob/eb114294efbcd5adb1944c9f3cb5feda'
Ah, I don't know if amfora supports that I'm guessing probably not.
yeah it doesn't seem to
there's a PR pending on tcell to add support, then hopefully cview would get it, then hopefully amfora :)
I've been writing my stuff to output URIs directly
so my terminal emulator can match them... wonder if I can match escape sequences? >_>
those types of hyperlinks could just be a regex-match away from being supported in urxvt
well, not fully
and I'm not sure what replacing text from a plugin would do to line wrapping and stuff
I'd want mouse-over to show the whole link
the OSC sequence lets terminal emulators show the link on hover
[x] adapt go-gemini to support websocket proxies
[ ] write a Gemini websocket proxy
names welcome
epoch: URI's here all work in iTerm2, including the gemini ones. :)
epoch: The only ones that are problematic are 'odd' characters, such as ending with a ), where that's included as part of the URI but iTerm2 strips it out.
Wikipedia seems to be the only place that regularly has URL's that end with a ). :(
(going with 'kepler' :)
Seek: kepler is a good name
it's almost working
*sigh*. What's with this web 3.0 fad that's happening. People at work want to do a 'hack day', and well, web 3.0 is apparently really hot.
is web 3.0 blockchain and nfts?
ols: Apparently.
ols: It's regular old web 2.0, whatever that is, except the data is basically on some sort of blockchain.
web 2.0 was when all text had like a border around it wasn't it? /s
Or something like that.
Arahael: Web 3.0 looks increasingly like pointless shit to me. I don't understand which problems it solves
ew0k: Indeed, but it's Very Cool And Awesome. :(
ew0k: However, technically, AR/VR is also part of web 3.0, and those don't seem pointless.
I don't know... I wonder which problems those solve as well
VR is pointless to me since I get motion sick when "walking around" in a VR environment :/
staying in place or teleporting now and then works
ew0k: I can't do VR, but AR is interesting.
Would be nifty having, eg, Google Glasses, with Live Transcribe running on them.
(Remember: I'm deaf)
I can see how that would be useful!
Also ideas of using AR to eg, look at something with added schematics shown as annotations.
Unfortunately I believe it will be used to track our every movement even more and place ads everywhere around us
It's a huge problem, yeah.
I've got a Pixel 6 I'm very happy with - for transcription, I have it so that it's doing the transcriptions without a network connection at all.
DIY AR would be nifty
So no adverts or tracking, since I just don't enable internet at all.
how much of a problem is abbreviations to you, by the way?
(Live Transcribe itself requires internet, but Pixel phones also have a "Recorder" which also has transcriptions, and that does not require a network connection).
Abbreviations aren't a problem for me, but slang does trip me up.
I can understand that
it trips me up too!
Especially american slang!
Especially when they use words such as "suck" or "shit" or other ordinarily very negative words!
"This is SICk!"
Uh... Sorry.
no problem
I don't get however how you disliking American slang is related to your deafness
is it because you don't understand them?
afr: I have no perception of "tone of voice".
oh
oh yeah, I get it
… a little
afr: Also, I don't live in America. :)
So I'm not really aware of the contexts in which such expressions might be used, and when to expect it.
yeah same here
afr: Another of my deaf friends, however, has difficulty even with local slang, even common expressions such as "It's a piece of cake!"
I've learned to speak English through microblog, so I use expressions in the contexts I found on microblog
afr: Because he never normally hears those expressions, so he's interpreting them very literally. "A piece of... cake? What cake? WHere's the cake? Are we eating it?"
so I'm afraid I'm generally off because I don't associate these expressions with real-life contexts
oh
Arahael: I never considered how tone of voice really matters
so where do you live?
I'm in Sydney, Australia.
I guess none of us hear the tone of voice in writing though
it trips a lot of people up when they can't determine whether something is sarcastic or not
Hmm.
especially if it's not in their native tongue
yeah I hate that
I need to dance around being sincere and not sarcastic
It's curious, I often like to make jokes, and I try to make jokes bleeding stupidly obvious with careful choice of words.
But because I can't get the *tone* right, people go "Uh? WTF?", and completely fail to appreciate that I'm actually joking.
"nice job!!" <-- is it a genuine expression of appreciation or am I an absolute dick?
afr: I'd tend to interpret that as genuine expression of appreciation.
Arahael: I've told a Framasoft volunteer his thread was interesting, he'd answered "haha, not again!" as if he was used to sarcasm
afr: "interesting" is a word I struggle with. I always intend it to be actually interesting, but it seems most people interpret it in a very negative light.
I try to find other alternatives, but they somehow tend to be regarded as even more negative.
afr: I think when people make a compliment, it's really more expected to be plainly and naively simply a compliement. Eg, "Hey Framasoft volunteer! I thought your thread was good, I liked it!"
then I generally write "hi Arahael! thanks for this thread, this is very interesting and mind-opening. however, I'd like to react to your point on so-and-so…"
And it's *implied* you found it interesting as a result.
but I fear being felt as "fake"
I always interpret something as a compliment whenever possible 😄
like, pretending to be interested
Hmm, perhaps: "I thought your thread was good, especially the point about... Though I thought the point about ... was a bit weak, but overall I enjoyed the thread - thanks!"
yeah
afr: That's "sandwiching" the critique - Postiive, Negative, Positive.
haha
afr: Very strongly expected in some cultures.
ew0k: Interpret this! You... Ew0kians are remarkable. :)
Positive interpretation!
,prounouns ew0k
,pronouns ew0k
[Pronouns] Pronouns for ew0k: he/him/it
I'm waiting too, I guess he's AFK
btw I'm at a lecture, so I'll be AFK too
afr: It's curious, I alwasy think of ew0k as a starwars character, and you as "Australian Financial Review".
ENjoy the lecture.
oh
My name's Antoine-Frédéric
Ah, nice :D
I'm John, but that's boring.
it isn't boring! "Jean" is a very old name in France, for example in Marseille, the MuCEM is bridged to the Saint-John fort!
Nice!
yeah, and the MuCEM is both an architectural prodigy and an excellent museum overall
it's about mediterranean civilizations, there are expositiosn about the expansion of cities
and the Saint-John fort really brings cachet
I've no idea about any of that I'm afraid.
well there are debates in France about cultural exchanges and globalism, and the MuCEM is unapologetically that
Arahael: haha.... I guess my nick is crap for screen readers!
yeah the history of France and Marseille especially, as a port, is tied to mobilities, commerce, migrations -- what you gonna do?
oh shit
ew0k: I recommend not cutting yourself.
ew0k: You ok?
It's just a scratch, but it really hurts!
ew0k: Reminids me of Monty Python "It's just a scratch", as the night hopes on his last limb.
Arahael: I love that scene :D
ew0k: That bodes badly for your cut.
haha
ew0k: Found some more software for a possible future TUI PDA :-).
ew0k: Also, your space painting looks amazing!
kel: cool! And thanks! :D
it works!!!! https://i.imgur.com/AVKNxbS.png
Seek's link to 'https://i.imgur.com/AVKNxbS.png'
remember those little rectangular logos you'd find everywhere on 'web 2.0'?
with like a white border, they were like 100x30 ish pixels in size
used to advertise whichever technology was being used for the site
Seek: I loved those
what were they called??? i've googled for like 5 minutes to no avail!
badges
thanks!
badges were a thing, but i'm thinking of the small rectangle ones
btw, https://cyberspace.baby/amfora is working if anyone wants to have a play
Seek's link to 'https://cyberspace.baby/amfora'
obviously there are rough edges to sort out, persistence, etc
Seek: OMG! How did you do this?
hmm. It doesn't like my cert at warmedal.se
Seek: I love your domain btw :D
<3 thanks :D
ew0k: i ported another Go TUI app to web a couple of days ago, did the same for amfora
ngh, was wondering for ages why a new test for my server kept hanging
as usual, forgot to include \r\n at the end of the request
lol bunburya
ew0k: ah, your cert is 'real', but it i haven't set any root certs
it's doing TLS over TLS, lol
Seek: wooow impressive!
wss://cyberspace.baby/kepler/warmedal.se gives you a binary websocket proxy to warmedal.se:1965 - Amfora does TLS as usual from there
cool!
Seek: my gemini cert is self-signed. Is it looking at my LE cert for the web?
ew0k: no, it'll only be looking at what comes over port 1965 :O
https://github.com/awfulcooking/kepler <- the websocket <-> Gemini proxy
Seek's link to 'https://github.com/awfulcooking/kepler'
weird 🤔 But you say that the cert served is a CA cert?
checking now with openssl s_client .. naw, it is self signed. and it looks similar to e.g. medusae.space's
lovely thing about Go is you get the source code for the whole stdlib in /usr/share/go-*
only difference i can see is that your server returns a cert for gardengnome.ml for requests w/o SNI
ah! Yeah, that vhost is the default onw
*one
i'll try to figure out if / why SNI isn't working for GOOS=js
ah i see, it's my doing. /fixing
ew0k: if you are looking at cross platform TUI libraries, you might want to consider GUI.cs https://github.com/migueldeicaza/gui.cs
lukee's link to 'https://github.com/migueldeicaza/gui.cs'
it is for .NET, but it compiles cross platform these days
my cross-platform TUI terminal client Romulus uses it
gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/romulus/
lukee's link to 'gemini://gemini.marmaladefoo.com/romulus/'
Seek: I tried your amfora front end - quite impressed. However the scrolling is a bit painfully slow for actual use (for example looking at the Gemini FAQ)
lukee: nice to have a 'real' client people can try without having to install
agree the scrolling is a bit laggy
ew0k: fixed the SNI issue btw :)
there did used to be an open ssh terminal somewhere where you could try some command line gemini apps, I forget where
i think i read about that yesterday, they called it a kiosk
kiosk@some place
yeah. Cant find it at the moment
here it is kiosk@gemini.circumlunar.space
yeah
(that is an SSH end point, not an email address!)
cool interface :)
also diohsc has an public SSH instance, see: gemini://gemini.thegonz.net/diohsc/
lukee's link to 'gemini://gemini.thegonz.net/diohsc/'
can use a hash fragment to link with a starting URL, e.g. https://cyberspace.baby/amfora/#gemini.marmaladefoo.com/romulus/
Seek's link to 'https://cyberspace.baby/amfora/#gemini.marmaladefoo.com/romulus/'
huh cool
TLS over TLS doesn't give ideal performance, but i don't see an easy way to avoid it that's secure
unless i hacked amfora not to do Gemini itself, but just request pages by URL from the proxy
streaming a hypertext platform via a commandline app to the web seems a fun task, but are you imagining non-gemini people would try it out in preference to installing a client or using a web front end?
For example, wouldnt end users expect to be able to "click" on a link (as one does on the web)
what's the drama about ansi escape codes? I thought I read someone mention that it was a loophole in Gemini
there are various sorts of different complaints I have seen
1. they assume a very specific implementation technology. Its like, for example embedding RTF or HTML in your gemtext and expecting it to be rendered in the client
2. client support cannot be assumed as it is not part of the spec, so most users will see just a jumble of garbage
3. its inline rendering which has been rejected within gemtext
lukee: ah
4. it can break aggregation. For example if I turn on an ansi code in my gemlog title and forget to turn it off, all the subsequent entries from other authors are formatted by my ansi codes
I am all for ansified text being served over gemini, just not within text/gemini
for example text/x-ansi seems to be the canonical media type for it
interesting
lagrange renders it within text/gemini
but provides a warning that it's only partially supported
yeah, its not good IMO
lukee: thanks for explaining it for me
your solution makes sense
i wonder if lagrange renders text/x-ansi the same way or it it just complains about an unsupported filetype...
its an easy assumption to make if you come at Gemini solely from a unix terminal client perspective
lukee: to be clear, it's Amphora compiled to wasm and running directly in the browser, with the server only used to connect to port 1965's via a websocket proxy
agreed it should ideally support hyperlinks
oh wow, I didnt know you could do that with Go
yeah!
but amfora doesnt even itself support clickable hyperlinks, so not sure how a virtual front end to it could
it's quite nice for writing cross-platform programs. to Go, js is just another OS, and it provides a stdlib to make syscalls to JS :)
there's a PR pending against tcell which implements terminal hyperlinks, which hopefully can make it down to Amfora in time
i've got to PR my GOOS=js port for tcell, too
which this Amfora port is using
did you have to patch tcell?
yes. but i had done the work already to port senpai, a few days ago
what is senpai?
answering my own question, senpai seems to be some golang IRC client https://pkg.go.dev/git.sr.ht/~taiite/senpai
lukee's link to 'https://pkg.go.dev/git.sr.ht/~taiite/senpai'
sorry, i'm async on irc, but would have replied if i caught your msg :)
no problem!
I figured it was probably some other Go app, and then the "Great search engine in the sky" could find it
