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I have only ever heard good things about rowing. Because exercise is a chore for me, I want to minimize the amount of time I have spend doing it.
I got a rowing machine recently. It hits a ton of muscles all at once, and is not bad for cardio. It won't challenge your heart as much as running will, but it gets the blood pumping.
I am no fitness expert, but it feels like a really good solution for me. I hope to work up to 20-30 minutes of rowing at least every other day.
> Because exercise is a chore for me, I want to minimize the amount of time I have spend doing it.
One of my biggest complaints about internet health and fitness discourse is how much it exaggerated the time commitment for exercising.
A fitness routine like you described (20 minutes, 3 times per week) is actually plenty of time to make a significant improvement in fitness levels. The key is consistency over the long term.
Too much of the fitness discourse on traditional media and social media revolves around extremes and glorifies the misery component of extreme exercise. Popular programs like CrossFit are all about pushing the limits and the grind. Thatās fine for some people, but itās not even close to necessary.
A basic exercise regimen of 1-2 hours total per week will make a world of difference compared to no exercise at all. Really, you donāt even need to go for intense exercises like rowing. Itās entirely possible to get fit and stay fit by doing mild to moderate weight lifting routines where you may barely break a sweat.
I wish weād do a better job of normalizing the mild to moderate exercise routines instead of the way the discussions are all about pushing yourself until youāre miserable.
> One of my biggest complaints about internet health and fitness discourse is how much it exaggerated the time commitment for exercising.
Also exaggerating how much of a chore it is. Find an activity you like and it will never be hard to stay active. Of my 5 favorite things to do, 3-4 are different physical activites.
"I want to minimize the amount of time I have spend doing it."
Just to quickly share what worked for me since many of us don't have room for a row machine: a pull-up bar and a 30lb kettle bell. Every 4hrs between 9AM and 9PM my Alexa reminds me to work out. I then do 3 out of 4 of the following: a set of push-ups, 100 crunches, 25-pullup (or 100 row style push ups with my feet on a tall bar stool), and/or 100 kettle bell swings. The routine is usually over in 7 minutes if I stay focused. It's short enough where I don't sweat so no need to change clothes and shower.
To be clear when the workout reminder chimes, sometimes I don't want to do any of it. But then I remind myself "you can do _something_" and I at least do the push-ups and pull-ups. I couldn't be more pleased with the results especially given how little effort is required.
Correction "100 row style pull-ups" my chest is nearly parallel with the ceiling.
(former rower) Just be aware that rowing can ruin your knees. It's quite "explosive", so it might be worth investigating physio to ensure minimal damage.
Of course genetics play a huge role here.
Isnāt all cardio bad for knees? I definitely feel less pain after a 40 minute row than a run
Please see:
https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/forums/training-q-a-with-d...
This idea is not founded in science. However, as Dr. Baraki outlines - dosage is very relevant regarding pain and injury
Cycling is very low impact, as long as your bike fits and youāre not grinding away in a heavy gear.
No. Running is good for your knees. If youāre feeling pain after a run, see a physio.
How about swimming?
In my experience: Hard to max out your heart because you are always oxygen constrained when front-crawling. I did high intensity breast stroke for 1-2 months each day, instead, and suddenly developed terrible back pain, so that does not seem like a solution either, but it might also be due to my subpar technique.
Sounds like we have a similar problem: start doing something and immediately do it very intensively and cause more harm than good to your body. High intensity + each day sounds like a bad idea almost always. The only people who do it with a good reason are professional athletes and they still have injuries all the time
As others have said, low-impact cardio is fine on your knees (swimming, cycling, cross-trainer).
Rowing and squash are the worst :)
Rowing is cardio
I recently bought a rowing machine (Concept2, "top of the top") ... and I'm very disappointed.
It's just not challenging enough (and I'm not very fit). Running/cycling (on a machine), I can easily ramp up the difficulty enough so that I'm sweating in 10 minutes. Rowing, I barely sweat even after 20 minutes (on max hardness, 27ish strokes/minute).
One of the best "time savers" for cardio is HIIT, and you just can't do that rowing.
I was on my rowing team in college, and I have a couple of opinions.
1) 27 strokes per minute is not max. I'm 70 years old and I do 30 to 33 on the rowing machine where I work out. When I was in college, our training sessions were all at 30 to 35 strokes per minute. Training sessions lasted for 1 to 2 hours, six days a week.
2) As for HIIT, during a race we would often do a "power 10", where we would apply maximum power to our strokes for 10 strokes. We only did 10 strokes because at the power levels we were expected to apply, doing more than 10 would burn us out rather quickly.
I still do rowing because it's an aerobic exercise that works most of your muscles; arms, back, legs, stomach. The only exercise I've heard of that does more all around is cross country skiing, and I hate the cold.
I'd have someone check your rowing form - I can't really imagine how rowing could be too easy. If you're applying your legs as you should, and trying hard, it's as difficult as you want it to be
yeah. not easy.
33 strokes per minute. set to 10 resistance on concept2. proper form. go for 30 minutes.
I'm unconvinced this is an easy thing for an unfit individual. I'm fairly sure an unfit individual would only be capable of 2 minutes... at best.
What are your 500m splits?
> One of the best "time savers" for cardio is HIIT, and you just can't do that rowing
Of course you can, something is wrong here, although it might be difficult to diagnose over the internet. "max hardness" might be a clue - you probably shouldn't be setting the resistance to maximum and maximum resistance does not imply more intense workout.
You can HIIT row, see Apple Fitness+ if you can stand the wellness vibe.
But if you want challenging, join the Concept2 challenges. I was doing 10k rows several times a week as a middle-of-the-pack competitor and if that doesnāt challenge you then you should go pro.
But as I mentioned in another comment, you can injure yourself on a Concept2 if you donāt cross-train. Itās not a magic device.
Roman legionnaire in charge of rowers: "Men, I have good news, and bad. The good news is today is Sunday, a day of recreation. The bad news is, the Captain wants to go water skiing."
Ramming speed...
Dont use max hardness, you most likely are not strong enough and dont have good enough technique enough for that. Reduce the damper setting and watch some technique vids on youtube.
Until your doing 1:10 500ās you can keep pushing harder.
Rowing fast is one of the most demanding movements you can do.
Rowing is pretty dependent on good form, I have noticed after not doing it too long.
Pulling faster/harder will make it more difficult. Try that, I guess?
Rowing is awesome but even a non-impact activity can be bad for you if itās all you do.
(I tweaked my hips during 2020 lockdown by overdoing it on my Concept2).
My advice is an app like Keelo, which creates HIIT workouts based on the equipment you tell it you have - including a rowing machine. I have my rower, some dumbbells, a plyo box, a kettle bell, and some rings.
Every workout is different than the last, you can use your own Spotify playlists, and it will kick your ass in all the best ways.
Can definitely vouch for rowing. I always start my workouts with a 2km row.
Great for shoulders and legs.
Iām suprised how I go to gyms and find they donāt have a rowing machine
I'd say I'm more disappointed than surprised -- rowing machines have a huge space footprint compared to other equipment. You can stack 3 or 4 treadmills in the same space.
Really? The modern treadmills with footrest on the sides?
We bought a home rower from a Show HN thread and itās been one of the best purchases weāve ever made. Highly recommend rowing.
which one?
https://avironactive.com/product-impact
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25905467
(Launch HN, not Show HN)
Rowing is great. But it is very useful to get instructions how to use it correctly. One might need a bit tutoring.
I'll preface with: Of course, the most important thing is to find something that you enjoy or at least don't mind doing.
However, with fitness, there is so much junk to sort through that even really smart people have no idea what it means to be fit or get fit.
It all depends on your goals, but for the most part you can divide it into cardio, strength, and flexibility - all of which interact with each other.
If you want good cardio, you need to increase your capacity. If you are out of shape and decide to redline your heart with multi-mile runs, you are being inefficient. Learn about the aerobic threshold and find out what yours is. Then, train steadily at that threshold to increase your capacity. Walking on an elevated treadmill or biking are the easiest ways to maintain a steady pace. Also, use a chest-strap heart monitor. When your aerobic threshold is high, then your ability to burn calories goes way up. The difference in the calories burned per hour between a conditioned individual and non-conditioned is something like 100cal vs 600cal. Do you want to be able to burn 100 cal/hour or 600?
With strength, it's all about progressive overload. Don't overcomplicate it. You can't confuse your muscles. You can't take shortcuts. Consistency and avoiding injury are how you get strong.
> The difference in the calories burned per hour between a conditioned individual and non-conditioned is something like 100cal vs 600cal. Do you want to be able to burn 100 cal/hour or 600?
This is nonsense. A typical person will burn 100 Calories or close to it per mile _walked_. The set of people who cannot walk more than a mile in an hour is pretty small.
On the other side, an elite marathoner can burn well over 600 Calories per hour. Something like 2600 calories for a race in as little as 2 hours.
Canāt edit, but this was unnecessarily combative. What I should have said is that I do not understand this claim or the numbers presented.
An adult individual able to burn only 100 Calories/hours is not merely āunconditionedā, but quite ill.
Someone capable of burning 600 Calories/hour would be considered quite fit by most people (especially if they do this 2-3 times/week), but is also nowhere near maximum caloric burn per hour.
No worries and I should have been more descriptive. But since the context was within aerobic threshold and endurance, I was referring to the amount of calories burned from fat grams, per hour. Elite athletes can recruit energy from over 1g of fat per minute. At 9cal/g, we are looking at around 600 cal/hour. Poorly conditioned individuals (i.e. low thresholds) are less efficient and therefore their bodies resort anaerobic glycolysis much sooner.
Thatās an interesting bit of info. I was not aware that the elite athletes were that much more efficient in releasing energy from fat. Makes sense, though. Thanks.
What books do you recommend about fitness, weight training and aerobic exercise?
Just started going to a gym after a long break, and I am an absolute beginner in this topic.
You should check out Barbell Medicine. They have a great beginner / restart template [0]. Itās a couple of doctors and an extended team that cut through a lot of the bro science that surrounds fitness and, specifically, strength training. Their content is great and they have a book in the works.
[0]
https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/returning-to-the-gym/
I second this, their content is no bullcrap and easy to read. There is lot of fads in fitness for beginners to get caught on.
Absolutely the best content I've found. So many free resources.
In addition, their youtube channel is a great place to start.
Third vote of support for BBM. I went to comment them as a resource before finding your post.
Rippetoe's Starting Strength is widely considered the go-to book for beginners.
Starting off by doing compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, bench press, and OH press is a great way to get your base strength levels up. You can add accessories later to zero in on specific muscle groups that need work. (You'll know which ones need work.)
Best tip is don't be a showoff. Use only the amount of weight you can actually handle while keeping your form correct. Proper technique is better than big numbers. Strength will come with effort and technique.
Oh, and your diet will change. Get ready to sate those cravings you'll get for protein-rich and fatty foods your body needs to repair your broken-down muscles. And get used to delayed-onset muscle soreness (DOMS); it's the "pain" in "no pain, no gain". Other forms of pain may not be so good.
Regarding DOMS, I find that once I was on a very consistent program, 3-4 days a week, I never got sore with weight training. But if I ever took a week off, Iād have to back off on the volume and weight to avoid getting sore. Longer than a week and you really have to back way way off.
That's about my workout frequency, and I'm basically sore all the time. I am constantly working on increasing weights though, I'm sure if I just did "maintenance" workouts it would be different.
Edit: clarify "sore" not "in pain" there is a difference.
When I trained a few years ago, I would be sore all the time... Now I've been training again, lifting more times a week & heavier weights and am pretty much not sore at all...
I would try
1) increasing your protein to 1.5-2g per kg of body weight per day.
2) Cutting alcohol
3) Making sure you get enough sleep to recover properly
4) Drinking more Water (1 gallon / 4L a day)
So I weigh about 84kg I should be shooting for ~150g protein daily? I don't really track closely but even with my ~30g post-workout drink I am guessing I don't get that much. I should keep a closer eye on it.
Yeah I would try increasing protein, you may not have been getting enough for optimal recovery & growth. Besides protein shakes, non-fat greek yogurt and egg-whites are almost pure protein sources that are easy to add in.
Funnily enough, I picked up "Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training" by Mark Rippetoe based on an HN recommendation. In my view, free weights beat out just about everything else for strength training because if you do the basic five (squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press, power clean), that hits pretty much _every_ muscle, including stabilisers. It helps not just with strength, but balance and supporting joints, plus increases bone strength.
As for aerobics/cardio, I've never really picked up a book myself as I've been hiking my entire life. It really depends on what you're aiming for; if it's just baseline cardio, walks around the neighborhood are good enough. Beyond that you have to specialize a bit depending on what you're aiming for, be it endurance, speed, explosiveness, and also terrain and form. Swimming is probably the lowest impact, but requires a pool. I use cycling for groceries, errands and when I used to commute, but that's sort of an absolute bare minimum. At home I got a VersaClimber clone since I rock climb and mountaineer. I recently got into trail running after reading "Born to Run" but that's less a prescriptive/instructive book than an inspirational/entertaining read.
Recently I've gotten into Yoga as I've been neglecting flexibility. Yoga With Adrienne on YouTube has worked well for me so far.
SS is good for beginners, but I would push back a bit that it works every muscle sufficiently. Rip says himself his method is really about basic movement patterns. While those exercises probably meet the points of diminishing returns, it doesnāt do much for specific muscles like, say, biceps, which is why he advocates ancillary exercises as somebody progresses.
> which is why he advocates ancillary exercises as somebody progresses.
IIRC, he poo-poos assistance lifts such as bicep curls. The one exception is chins, which is in the official program and he insists on overhand because it works more muscle mass, despite overhand being the more practical version. Yeah, if you're bodybuilding get Pearl's "Keys to the Inner Universe" and plan on spending a lot of time just creating a program. But for most average people just looking to maintain, and especially beginners, the basic five lifts are simple, cover pretty much everything you need (for baseline strength) and can be done with a minimum of fuss, including creating programming and actual time lifting.
I agree with your overall point but Rip seems agnostic on bicep curls. He's been asked on his podcast whether some can include them and his general reaction is "Sure, you can do bicep curls". He doesn't seem to think they're necessary but also doesn't shut down the suggestion as frivolous either.
>_which is in the official program and he insists on overhand because it works more muscle mass_
I assume this was a typo. But he does advocate (supine grip) chins because they involve more muscle mass (the biceps, specifically). He writes about it in his SS introductory text and also includes chins in his programming section of that book. That book also has a section titled "Ancillary Exercises".
Starting Strength has a really comprehensive explanation of the main lifts: squats, press, bench press, power cleans and deadlift. It explains the mechanics behind a good lift and gives a little bit of advice about programming.
It was one of the first books I ever read about fitness and it influenced all the workouts I did after it. IMHO strenght training makes going to the gym a lot more fun, as you can compete with yourself.
Special Forces Assessment training handbook (aimed at success in Army Special Forces, but lots of practical workouts and injury-prevention techniques):
https://goarmysof.com/documents/sf/SFAS-PT-handbook.pdf
Special Operations Nutrition Guide:
https://navyseals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/special-ope...
I recommend the heaviest book you can find, and pick it up often!
I leveraged water bottles. 1.5L to make warm up like arm exercises or weight to hold for punches. Very very nice IMO.
ps: I don't know who does the russian trick (30 push ups whenever they have to wait a little .. elevators, mw ovens etc)
_Starting Strength_ is a decent place to start for barbell exercise, but it's very much in the spirit of _The Strongest Shall Survive: Strength Training for Football_[1]. Therefore, if you're not a pubescent male with north of 1,000 ng/dL of testosterone and competitive athletic ambitions you'll probably want to modify the programming. I also hear good things about _The Physics of Resistance Exercise_, but I've yet to read it.
An important thing about resistance exercise is that it's not just about muscles. It also stimulates the skeletal system to make your bones more dense, strengthens your ligaments and tendons, and perhaps most importantly stimulates the central nervous system. The latter is the likely mechanism for cognitive benefits.
[1] It's arguably the better book, but it's out of print and you're going to be looking at about a couple hundred bucks at least for a copy.
> _Therefore, if you're not a pubescent male_
Rippetoe, the author of the book, is 65 years old:
*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
It's a book for beginners and anyone can use the linear progression method. Once you've progressed beyond just a beginner, _The Barbell Prescription_ takes the _Starting Strength_ idea and adapts for for people 40 and older:
*
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/34823846-the-barbell-...
One of the co-authors (an MD) runs the _GreySteel_ YT channel (and he's no spring chicken):
*
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreySteel/about
You can see their basic program here:
https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs
It has advice for how much to increase weight by which varies based on age and gender. (It's basically "slow down if you're not an 18-35 year old man".)
Right; "Modify the programming". I assure you that Rip lifts different now than he did 50 years ago.
When I first started getting in better health and shape years ago, two resources helped me learn, provide structure, and form habits. One is a lengthy blog post and the other one is a popular book. Both are simple and accessible in their approach.
Nerdfitness - The Beginner Bodyweight Workout
https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/beginner-body-weight-workou...
Bigger Leaner Stronger (Book)
honestly the reddit r/fitness faq is pretty good. if you don't mind reading a lot the strongerbyscience guides on squatting, deadlifting and benching are very high quality.
in terms of programming: starting strength is ok for beginners but don't stay glued to it for too long. once you start stalling move on to an intermediate program like the texas method, any of the SBS programs, 5/3/1 bbb, or some sort of ppl.
also, while starting strength is fine for beginners (the low volume isn't a problem as in beginners few gains are made the first month due to poor physiological recovery capacity, and beginners respond to basically any volume), mark rippetoe is a stubborn dogmatist who has never broken any records or coached anyone who's broken any records. take a lot of things he says with a grain of salt.
the most important things are: push yourself in the gym, increase weights or reps regularly (or more generally difficulty so you keep adapting to higher demands/build muscle), eat at a slight surplus, and sleep at least 7 hours, preferably 9 if it's possible.
I would consider that if your goal is just general "I'd like to be strong and healthy", whether someone has broken records doesn't really factor in to it. A program that'll take you from unfit to the strongest person in most rooms isn't necessarily going to share much beyond basic principles with a world record contender program.
That said, totally agree on those basics: progressive overload + eat right.
If you can afford it, a trainer at a good gym will make a big difference. Thatās how I got started and I really got results. They can make a program thatās setup for your goals and tweak it to keep it interesting. Plus the social pressure of having the appointment was what I needed to get out of bed early and get to the gym on time, especially when I didnāt feel like doing it.
preface with: I am not against trainers. I think they can be very valuable for the reasons you mentioned - encouragement, "managing" the technicalities, instructing your technique/nutrition.
With that said, I would recommend using a trainer in combination with at least one separate resource - like barbell medicine. I've had personal experience with trainers that pedaled pseudo science (or sometimes straight BS) as fact, or recommended methods that weren't aligned with my goals.
_Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training_ by Mark Rippetoe is a must read if you are looking into "getting in shape." It contains a thorough analysis of the main barbell lifts, and compelling arguments in favour of barbell training (and against other types of training). You'll find a lot of learning material on Youtube as well.
I like Jeff Nippards stuff. He's generally pretty reasoned in his stances and his workouts are all pretty well done. I've had very good results so far with his 3/week full body hypertrophy program.
If you are going to a gym, I'd recommend classes. You don't have to think much. You just have to do which is good when you don't know anything. You just know you have to be there at 9am; it'll be an hour; and you'll get told what to do.
spin classes rowing classes bodypump (light weights) yoga
These are easy ways to get into the gym and get something done without wondering around the weight room wondering what this thing is for.
If you do take these classes don't expect a lot of coaching. Instead, remember what the exercise was and look it up on Youtube.
BTW, if you want to get into weight lifting, start with bodypump for a few months. You won't learn anything, nada. But that's not important; basic reps are. Then get a 5x5 app like _StrongLifts_. The nice thing about StrongLifts is you'll have a routine and it tracks you. Again, you aren't aimlessly wondering around the weight room.
Finally, when you can complain about the difference between StrongLifts vs StartingStrength it will be time for you to leave.
> Finally, when you can complain about the difference between StrongLifts vs StartingStrength it will be time for you to leave.
Leave what, and do what instead?
Leave all the classes and apps and everything that's organised, and do it all yourself; you'll have enough knowledge and motivation by that point.
_Kung Fu_ reference. When you can take the pebble from my hand ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9selPW2lL-M
I found this to be pretty interesting:
Which Comes First, Cardio or Weights?: Fitness Myths, Training Truths, and Other Surprising Discoveries from the Science of Exercise
by Alex Hutchinson
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11115311-which-comes-fir...
There are a lot of recommendations for Starting Strength here and I think the book is great for describing how to do a certain kind of lift.
I read it and was still lost about frequency, how to minimize injury, etc. It doesn't give you the practical "do this" sort of advice a true beginner needs or at least this true beginner needed.
I really like Julian Shapiro's guide for the first few months of weight lifting:
https://www.julian.com/guide/muscle/intro
I'd recommend the trainer part though - I tweaked my shoulder trying to just figure it out on my own.
So I'm a big Starting Strength believer, it was transformational for me (specifically the deadlift, it's life-changing), but in addition to the book the YouTube channel is great:
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC5FaqTBy0c1jlRUHKu4SuXQ
Since this is a technical crowd, I would suggest firing up YouTube-DL and downloading every video from the channel. The content is so incredibly valuable that I could see them putting it behind a subscription at some point. Once you have it locally you can just sort by filename and watch all the instructional videos on the squat or deadlift etc.
> It doesn't give you the practical "do this" sort of advice a true beginner needs or at least this true beginner needed.
_What_ are you talking about? He lists an example two week program complete with sets and reps in that book, plus outlines exactly how to find the weight you should be lifting with. Form is _rigorously_ specified, to the point I've managed to stay injury free from lifting while never having been coached.
As someone who had done practically no strength training (benching with friends every once in a blue moon), SS:BBT took me from completely ignorant to regular lifter.
>_It doesn't give you the practical "do this" sort of advice a true beginner needs or at least this true beginner needed._
His other book āPractical Programmingā does. I find his writing needlessly verbose, but he does cover a lot of different programming options.
Just read reddit's FAQ on bodybuilding or fitness, depending on what you want.
This is good advice and has much / most of the info you really need.
For me personally nothing beats swimming for an hour, twice or more per week.
Starting Strength by Mark R
Thereās plenty of weight training resources already available so Iāll add a cardio resource: Daniels Running Formula.
Also, donāt forget flexibility/mobility work in addition to strength and cardio. Starretts Supple Leopard book is a good resource, as is general yoga classes.
Stop driving. Bike everywhere. Thatās all you need to know.
Depending on where you live this advise my shorten your life expectancy and health expectancy. Iāve seen those on bikes get hit by cars plenty of times.
This is correct. Daily street commuters can expect to get hit. I took some observational statistics at the place where I started commuting, and there were about 20 people that biked to work every day, and one got killed on average every 2 years, mostly on a single 400m stretch of busy road running to the building entrance.
The main feature that increases safety seems to be overt bike lane and shoulder markings. So push for those if you have any involvement with local government. Our problem was the snow plows grinding down the paint, so some drivers would do things like try to pass on the right as if it was a multi-lane road. They will not notice a cyclist at all when doing something like that. I've also been hit by red light racers. They are only looking at the light, zero awareness of anything else.
The best thing you can do is probably to just run the brightest flashers you can at all times, front, back, and sides. And this sounds silly, but, think about what you are going to do if something goes wrong. My worst hit was greatly mitigated by just remaining calm and reacting as I had rehearsed in my head, rolling up onto the windshield and tucking into a ball as I flipped through the air. One thing I wasn't quite ready for what what it feels like to get hit by a wall of steel at that speed, nothing like what happens at normal human speeds like playing football.
Also cycling next to exhaust fumes is controversial at least
Case in point: children in Finland bike to school [1] even at -17C/2F.
Studded tires work really well, even if itās a bit icy.
[1]
https://www.boredpanda.com/students-bicycle-school-winter-sn...
Temperature isnāt the best indicator of bikeability.
That photo, to me, looks like a cloudless sky, so chances are itās dry, little or no wind, and low humidity.
Even at -17C, thatās easy to dress for and way better than what you get around freezing with wind and rain, when the cloud cover prevents temperatures from dropping very deep (e.g. your typical British/Belgian/Dutch autumn weather)
Even that is quite doable, though, at shortish distances (say less than 5km), certainly with some wind cover, as there typically is in cities.
That's great for cardio, but the main muscles it works are the quads. Hamstrings aren't emphasized, and upper body is lacking.
Does upper body strength have a big impact on longevity? I would have imagined that daily biking covers 99% of the health gains
I would think so too. The advantage is that since itās part of daily life, you create this baseline of exercise that is always there, also when you lack motivation or time to do other sports.
How long have you been doing this ?
I managed to implement this since july this year. Very good benefits (muscle mass, cardiovascular health) but winter early night makes it a lot less joyful and I'm feeling less motivated. Also I see my thighs are getting thick and stiff .. but maybe I can fix that (jogging session and stretch ?)
About 15 years, although rarely since lockdown. When I started working, I noticed that the only healthy old people were the bike commuters. Other people had fitness routines by convenience, and they didn't last to old age. Bike commuting was closer to a religion. You start out just trying to get some exercise, but you find freedom and self-mastery. It's a constant set of new and deeper challenges, as you push through the breaking points of each part of both body and equipment, not because you want to, but because you have to. Fitness is no longer a goal, but a means to a higher goal - simply surviving on this planet by your own god/evolution-given power.
Thick and stiff sounds great to me. Regardless, I don't recommend jogging; I do recommend short runs building to max stride directly after completing a ride. I also like glute-ham raises and the reverse sit-ups to balance things out.
Not the parent poster, but have done this all my live. In The Netherlands people generally stop biking for sport in the winter, yet continue biking to work, which shows that your observation that it looses its fun is largely shared. Itās just that the benefits keep outweighing the drawbacks: itās cheap, fast (at least in congested cities), sustainable, and good for your health.
Then again, itās much easier to keep doing something when everybody else is doing it, so if youāre in an area where cyclists are a minority I imagine itās more of a challenge to convince yourself. The advantages do still apply so Iām sending virtual encouragement!
> Then again, itās much easier to keep doing something when everybody else is doing it, so if youāre in an area where cyclists are a minority I imagine itās more of a challenge to convince yourself. The advantages do still apply so Iām sending virtual encouragement!
Very much, and also netherlands bike lane system is a real luxury. I'm lucky to have a long bike lane to bike freely, if most of my area was like this I'd be biking twice more.
Biking doesnāt do much for bone mass retention or upper body strength. Bike all you want, but also lift.
Why bike? Man up and run everywhere.
David Goggins is that you ? I have been exercising my entire life and running is the only activity that routinely gives me injuries that last for nearly a year. Most of us probably don't have the best form but watching Goggins get his knees drained last year made me question if humans were meant to run regularly past a certain distance and past a certain age.
The combination of constantly running long distances and constantly walking long distances with ridiculously heavy loads is one aspect that I find totally obnoxious about military training, and particularly the Western/NATO approach to small unit tactics.
It injures people in training (degrading readiness), and often leaves veterans with debilitating life-long lower-body problems that also cost the government a fortune in disability payments.
I've watched several Green Berets on YouTube state fitness goals for SF training of "You should be able to run a 7-minute mile pace, INDEFINITELY, with no preparation." No. That's DUMB. If your leadership puts you in a situation where that is necessary, your leadership is DUMB too.
> If your leadership puts you in a situation where that is necessary
While I'm mostly inclined to agree with your higher-level point, I think this particular argument hurts more than it helps. Military leaders plan for unexpected situations in the ultimate adversarial environment. They don't _mean_ to put people in this situation, but they plan for it anyway because they want troops to survive even when things don't go as intended. Being able to reach an objective on time is important, and being able to run away from trouble even more so. These are elite units, put into the highest-uncertainty kinds of situations. In that context, at that age, seven-minute miles for an hour or so is not at all unreasonable. It's not even that far from what I could do, despite being 56 and never having been any kind of physical elite. "Indefinitely" and under load might be pushing the idea too far, but the idea that there should be _some_ minimum requirement is fundamentally sound. It's the repetition and the normalization of tactics _unnecessarily_ requiring such high levels of physical prowess that creates problems.
> I have been exercising my entire life and running is the only activity that routinely gives me injuries that last for nearly a year
What are you doing, running ultra-marathons?
No, probably more dumb in the "man-up" sense: running immediately after waking in below freezing weather while it's still dark out without warming up or wearing warm clothes. I felt superhuman and that feeling is addictive.
Perhaps that is why running injuries are so common ? You can't keep pushing yourself to deadlift more, for example, without it being painfully obvious your form is not right. And you just know that the person looking back in the mirror should not deadlift 315 lbs. But with running there is no obvious indication and the environmental factors keep changing. Then you're spending months stiff and in pain. You feel 20 years old one week and 90 years old the next.
I've written a couple of reasonably well-received guides about running in a New England winter. As you've clearly learned, such activity is its own specialized thing, requiring its own habits and preparations even beyond running the rest of the year. My guides focus mainly on situational awareness (e.g. always knowing your escape route around piles of snow if a car comes along) and gear. You've identified a couple of gaps (e.g. the winter-specific dangers of running in the early morning) and reminded me that those guides are generally due for an update. Thank you.
Thanks in advance for the advice. Please share a link when you can.
Here's part 1, with a link to part 2.
https://obdurodon.silvrback.com/winter-running-part-1
Again, thanks for your help.
I can bike as fast as Usain Bolt runs.
Also biking is a bit easier on your back and legs. It may harm shoulders and testicles though.
> biking is a bit easier on your back and legs. It may harm shoulders and testicles though.
Not when you actually consider the probabilities of getting injured in a crash/fall.
I can't tell you the number of times I've been injured on two wheels. Once I was run over by an inattentive driver hitting my BMX, knocking me to the ground, driving over my leg. On other occasions I've broken my wrists, broken collarbone, countless instances of road rash and other wounds. Other people here are arguing you can cycle in snow and ice, lololol, been there, done that, have the scars to prove it.
There's just no comparison in the context of "easier on your body". You can run/walk on sidewalks and trails with all the other pedestrians, away from cars. Cycling near massive vehicles driven by people addicted to taking selfies is so hazardous to your body it tends to kill it to death.
If fitness is the goal, running is way more effective in the same unit of time than cycling. I've done both trail running and mountain biking on similar trails. Every time I get really into the trail running mode enough to have the necessary fitness to really execute, returning to my mountain bike feels like easy mode with heaps of unnecessary mechanical wankery thrown in mostly because it entertains my inner gearhead and gives me more things to play consumer whore shopping for and buying.
This is akin to say you can slip while jogging in a forest. At time I have to avoid the angry dog chasing me. So yeah if you bike fast around cars shit can happen. If you coast on small lanes in a village, you will catch yourself on your feet before falling off of your bike (and if not then don't use a bike you're not ready).
I wasn't even "comparing" bike / feet. Just showing the potential pain points. I just couldn't jog because of my knees while I could bike (it actually helped said knees). I do prefer running for overall health... it involves more muscle groups and your respiration is also more intense (and so far I never had biking high, while running puts me in the zone.)
Cheeers.
> if you bike fast around cars shit can happen
If you bike _slowly_ around cars, bad shit is even more likely to happen.
Have you ridden a motorcycle on roads before? It's infinitely safer than pedaling a bicycle among automotive traffic because you can at least keep up with the flow of traffic and behave in every sense as an automobile, in what is firmly the automobile's native land.
In the US it's exceedingly rare to live in a village with dedicated bike trails you can safely coast along. We have roads full of carelessly driven cars _everywhere_. Riding bicycles on those roads is quite unpleasant to say the least, based on my experience. We have reported instances of assholes "rolling coal" not only deliberately smoking out cyclists, but in some cases flat out running them over.
And we haven't even broached the subject of cycling being an acquired skill many adults plain suck at. It's complicated if you didn't grow up pedaling everywhere. Have you ever tried introducing an adult to cycling who didn't do it before? The only teaching experience more cringe-worthy I can recall was teaching someone with no manual transmission experience how to ride a motorcycle. All those moments have been hellish "I'm pretty sure I'm just helping this person get on a path leading to more convoluted self-harm" experiences. Getting them to go for a run doesn't even register anywhere on this particular map.
Back when I moved to CA for my first startup job, I had to leave my partner and our pets back in IL for a few months with family while I found us an apartment. When my partner finally showed up she had her arm in a cast, wanna guess why? Bicycle crash. She didn't have much experience riding bicycles growing up in a sea of cycling-hostile 5+-lane Florida surface streets, and crashed riding my old bicycle with my nephew passing time while waiting to relocate. Imagine how annoying that must have been to bring two housecats through TSA alone with a newly broken arm. Yeah, go ride bicycles everywhere everyone!
People that recommend everyone ride a bicycle everywhere seem to have absolutely no perspective rooted in reality. My "man up, run everywhere" comment was intended mostly tongue in cheek, but I'm willing to play devil's advocate in arguing it's obviously safer and more accessible than cycling. They're both ridiculously impractical in a world optimized for automobiles.
Well it seems very specific to the US (and ex USSR countries one can see on youtube)
Now you have a point if OP never rode a bike before, I'd stay away for a while. Maybe that's why I never had any issues going back to biking .. I basically grew up on a bike. But that's not out of touch with reality. I crashed twice in the last 6 months, but I was far from breaking an arm (even though both time it was a front wheel losing balance so face first to the ground) and that didn't bother me much more (and I have a super weak health these days, I'm not a young stud in mint condition at all)
about practicality, and even safety.. I'd argue it's not as sure as it appears, at least in western european countries.. it's less risky than heavy traffic intersection in a car with crazy drivers cutting you off (with my bike I can chose 20 different routes back to home), and unsurprisingly I get there faster than with my car (no traffic jams).
> I can bike as fast as Usain Bolt runs.
...which means absolutely nothing in terms of either ability or fitness. Sure, if you're time constrained, biking might be feasible where running is not. Otherwise it's just Easy Mode.
1) It was half a joke (implying I will never reach 35km/h with my legs)
2) OP was trying to go back into physical exercise, doing everything by bike is a great way to jump back. Running is amazing but your options are greatly reduced. I can use my bike to commute which means I don't have to allocate time for physical exercise. Aren't we all time constrained ?
have a good day
At my house it is currently 6F. There is six inches of snow and freezing rain on everything, so roads are icy. Biking would be stupid.
Studded tires work great. People use them at ski resorts and mountain towns from Colorado to Alaska.
Unfortunately this advice is irrelevant (or suicidal) in many climates. Canadaās prairie provinces are completely unridable for 3-6 months out of the year.
Shameless opportunity to share one of my favourite youtube videos from the last few years:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
TL;DW Oulu, Finland is as cold and snowy as any population center in Canada. Plenty of people bike there year round. The issue is municipal infrastructure, not climate.
To help clarify. There are many different northern climates. Close to the oceans,which is Coastal, is very different than continental.
I think there is misconception for those who don't understand, because how can they(?) If they have not experienced a Canadian or Siberian prairie winter. 30 to 40 degrees below zero ( Ā°f=Ā°c), wind blowing, constantly 30 to 50 km/hr(20-30mph), so wind chill maybe - 60 or more. (exposed skin frozen ~dead immediately.)
Roads not only snowy and icy, but blowing snow, so poor visibility. Equipment breaks from the cold, for example if you go through a pot hole - and can't avoid that because there are no sidewalks or shoulders because snow.
This weather can last for 2,3,4 months.
We do play outside when we can, with preparation, but commuting, and shopping for essentials, is not playing.
I'm a lifelong central canada resident and I can confirm both the truth of this AND the fact that people do bike all winter round. It really is a case of acclimatization and preparedness (fitness being included in this).
And then add kids in to the mix. Is just not possible (despite the baffling downvotes).
That's great when you already have that ability, and when circumstances permit. There's a bit more to it for people who do not have that ability, might never have that ability due to disability, or live in places/situations where it's not feasible. "That's all" is an expression of privilege, not real advice.
āThatās all you need to knowā is not the best way to put itā¦ āItās one of the best hacks out thereā would be better. Itās kind of ātake the stairs instead of the elevatorā on steroidsā¦ youāre modifying something you have to do anyway, creating a new habit that will work in your favourā¦ and in this case it also has environmental benefits and is likely cheaper then other forms of transport. But like any hack, there are scenarios where it wonāt work, thatās clear.
Recumbents are great for all body types.
What about the type that has bad knees, or metabolic issues, or low vision, or seizures, or about a hundred other things? Somehow I think a hard-to-see-in-traffic recumbent bicycle isn't going to be a solution for them. Advocacy is a wonderful thing, but when it turns into ableism it's disgusting.
For me, the three book series āTactical Barbellā are pretty much unbeatable. Pick one of the three books depending on what your current goals are.
Came to mention TB, as well. I've been running it for years (I originally learned about it from a HN comment) and believe that I will probably use it, or some variation of the protocols, for the rest of my life.
That said, if I were new to barbell training, I would pick up the Starting Strength book and read it cover to cover to understand the mechanics of the main compound lifts. Then I would pick up the Greyskull LP program and run it (it's more or less the SS program but with some sanity in the progression and it doesn't ignore conditioning) until I was regularly hitting plateaus on the main lifts. Then I'd transition to the TB protocols starting with base building and going from there based on my goals and other fitness related endeavors.
edit/ I'd also encourage people to read TB I: Strength, TB II: Conditioning, Mass Protocol, and the Ageless Athlete entry. I incorporate pieces of all 4 of these books into my training week.
Additionally, there is another book specific to law enforcement that has interesting information in it. And, on top of that, there are 2 new books being worked on at the moment.
Itās a good point about SS. I kind of forgot about years of other books and programs, learning how to lift with good form, none of which TB really covers.
TB just makes so much sense day to day. I think that the fact it is designed around you staying actually fully functional day to day, and not a worn out mess from a crazy amount of lifting is the key. You get serious gains but also still feel human.
The workout āBlack on Oxygenā is maybe one of the best all round routines Iāve ever done. Iāve never found anything that tops it.
It depends on what your goals are.
Ignore everyone here recommending Starting Strength without knowing what your goals are because if your goals are general health or a classic physique, that book will not help you.
imo the book is overrated, contrarian, and cultish, and results in injuries and an unbalanced physique just so you can get kind of strong at a few powerlifting movements.
As someone else mentioned, hire a trainer. There is only so much you can learn from reading vs doing. Having someone guide you will increase the effectiveness of your effort by 10x.
Its really not very complex, but its hard. lift weights 5-6 times a week. And be consistent. Consistency is everything.
After about 6 months you'll see incredible results. Keep going.
I was surprised that there's such a difference between low and below average. You'd think that there would be less of a gap between the two.
I suspect they mis-interpreted that part but admittedly I haven't listened to the whole thing.
The reason there is such a big difference between below average and low is because in the "low" group, there's almost certainly something wrong with that group. A heart/lung condition, cancer, morbidly obese, i.e. issues with major body systems.
There's also usually a big difference in all-cause mortality between no exercise at all vs. a tiny bit every week.
One way I recently tried that I like
10-15min all out 110% of what I think I can do. You push yourself past what you think is possible.
Rest for 5-10 days.
Incredible result, minimum time
Work for cardio, muscle mass, etc.
The idea is to give your body a clear signal that things need to change (like in a survival situation) and then give your body the time and food to do the transformation.
The rest of your week you do physical things you like, walk, tennis, bike, etc
Fitness programming normally follows a methodology that is the exact opposite of this to reduce injury rates. Steady, consistent incremental increases to intensity, volume, or frequency over the course of a 2-3 month macro cycle.
I'm not saying yours is a bad idea, but, from everything I know about fitness, this sounds like designing for injury.
Obviously, you donāt go 110% the first time.
You should ease into it, push harder as the weeks go on and you gain more experience in the movement.
The idea is that you body doesnāt require hours and hours of exercise to make change, just enough signal that the your current strength is not enough, and enough time and food for your cells to do the work.
I wouldnāt do it with an amount of weight that is dangerous or with fast movement.
Its really great for results, and motivation. Unfortunately with age, its also how I get injured very easily if going full tilt.
This is a concise video on the topic: "Is training to failure a good idea?"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6OwaUlX4Qic
for context, RPE = rate of perceived exertion, on a scale of 1-10. RPE 10 being "I can't do another rep"
TLDR: training to failure isn't worth it for most people
These guys have world class experience and knowledge regarding health and training, highly recommend.
I love this idea. I've tried something similar in the past, but with not nearly as much rest. Perhaps unsurprisingly, as I age the results get worse. Maybe I should try again with more rest.
That is what I heard ( I donāt remember the trainer).
He said that the major thing that slow progress is not enough rest. Most people who go at the gym overtrain and donāt rest enough.
What do you do this with? Running?
I did a mix of push up, pull up, crunch and a few movement with free weight( mostly upper body) for 12 min.
The idea was to be completely exhausted, lying on the floor after it.
For each exercice it was only one/two serie to failure.
I will try for running this week.
This link directs me to several bullet points and a truncated podcast. It seems like the real podcast is behind a paywall.
Iām not sure what thereās to discuss about the content itself as I canāt listen to it. Am I doing something wrong?
> Iām not sure what thereās to discuss about the content itself as I canāt listen to it. Am I doing something wrong?
No, and you're not the only one. I've come to despise podcasts, because they are almost always very badly organized, if at all. I feel that we need a response to them, along the lines of "this could have been an email", except "this could have been a blog post."
Yes, your information might be insightul, but if I have to listen to 90 minutes of a couple of guys shooting the shit about it, it's next to useless in terms of actionable or meaningful content to me.
I really need a "TL;DR" for podcasts. Something along the line of the five minute precis from Gibson's "Count Zero".
just in case
last month I focused a bit on oxygen levels and mitochondrial health. Good breathing (and overall cardiovascular system) seems a simple trick to help your body overall. But I lack solid resources on the matter.
The best resources I have found for breath technique is two books: Breath by James Nestor and The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown.
Breath is a much better book and very interesting, but is a bit less actionable in terms of real guidance it offers on what to do and practice.
The Oxygen Advantage is a much worse book with lots of hand waving and less evidence to back up all of the authors claims. The instructions on what to practice are much better and more actionable than the Breath book though.
This sort of stuff would have to be done ahead of some particular focused activity you want to optimize, no?
Breathing is autonomic. You obviously can't try to "improve" it all day.
A lot of improvements to breathing come as secondary effects from other things. For example, wake posture, sleep posture, nose vs mouth, etc.
Any conscious breathing is short like you mention but I still think it builds a habit of breathing the practiced way. Like exercise or learning a skill.
Your body isn't perfect, your hormone levels / nervous system state can derail the healthy autonomous response.
Having a sense of that, and knowing how to allocate some time to reset it a bit (deep breathing to relax arteries, slow down heart rate) is valuable I believe.
Thank you very much, always a good start.
Cheap and effective: kettlebell workouts and running. Keep it regular even if you only do a bit.
For ever I believed group rides were all Iād ever need. Then pandemic and almost a year of just sitting around because riding trainer or rollers sucks.
Since then Iāve built up a home gym around kettlebells, a squat rack, and my rollers. I also get out and run 1 or 2x per week. I have never felt better or more fit.
Mix it up. Do something every day. Build slowly to give yourself time to adapt. You will be amazed at what will happen.
Give rucking a try.
Should we be tracking our vo2 or rather just get in the best shape you can and assume vo2 is good?
A simpler way of tracking performance is just seeing how many continuous push-ups you can do:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
"Participants able to complete more than 40 push-ups were associated with a significant reduction in incident cardiovascular disease event risk compared with those completing fewer than 10 push-ups."
That's not to say that if you can't do 40 push-ups you're unfit. I was pretty fit when I did this test myself, and I could only do about 30 (I'm 48 years old, and 30 is still pretty good for my age). Now after doing it daily for a few months I can do 60. But even when I could only do 30 I was still pretty fit...I just didn't have the endurance in my arm/chest muscles to do any more than that.
Here is a chart showing how many push-ups you should be able to do based on your age:
https://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/home-pushup.htm
If you need metrics to guide you, maybe. But most folks I know who run or bike regularly haven't bothered getting tested unless they're hardcore data nerds.
I know this is hand-wavy, but if you're already working up a sweat for at least 30 minutes twice a week, you're doing alright. If you're also lifting heavy things with proper form, you're doing great.
Only marginally relevant: does anyone know how to change speed of a podcast like this? I have the Video Speed Controller extension and it works on videos perfectly, but I don't know how to change speed on an audio-only player like this.
The podcast app I use has options for that (iCatcher). Many apps will do it and will pull from RSS feeds or open podcast directories.
The podcast cut out before they got into specifics. Does anyone have the secret info they didn't share in the preview?
What's the best way to measure VO2?
apple watch will measure it, though i have no idea how accurate it is.
to do it properly you need to undergo a supervised test in a lab with the right equipment.
Apple watch measures heartbeat and oximetry (SpO2).
A VO2 max test needs a closed air system, whatever estimation Apple's software provides will be for indication purposes only.
burpees
Japan proves all this wrong.
_"If you have the aspiration of kicking ass when you're 85, you can't afford to be average when you're 50." āPeter Attia_
Statistically, and regardless of being non-average at 50 or not, the main thing you'll be kicking is the bucket when you're 85.
It still makes a big difference when you are 85. Probably even more so:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
"Among physically active vs sedentary participants...at age 85 years, the 3-year mortality was 6.8% vs 24.4%"
This says nothing about cause and effect however. The people who are physically active at 85 are likely not people who had to make an effort to follow an activity plan.
>This says nothing about cause and effect however.
It does.
"A significant survival benefit was associated with initiating PA between ages 70 and 78 years (P = .04) and ages 78 and 85 years (P < .001). "