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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, July 10, 1990 10:00 p.m. eastern time
Topic: Marketing Your Software
Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFA Gary J)
Dave Lyons I've got a good start on 1/2 of Big Brother...routines that
allocate
Dave Lyons all your free memory & let you checksum it to see if anything got
stomped on by accident. I just
Dave Lyons found the bug in my routines that was stomping on stuff by
accident. :-(
AFA Gary J So, the program to check if you're stomping is doing the
stomping? :)
Dave Lyons Gary, Yup...sort of like inventing a Band-Aid with cyanide on it,
I guess.
Dave Lyons (It was a bank-cross bug with the handle I'm using to keep track
of all the areas to check, and I
Dave Lyons didn't find it right away because my machine at home has only 1.25
megs, few enough banks that
Dave Lyons the problem almost never shows up. On a 5 megger, though, it's a
mess.)
SPW Anyone know how to scroll fast, from the bottom up on the ][gs?
Dave Lyons SPW, in super-hires, or what?
SPW yes
AFA Gary J Do you just want to scroll text displayed on the SHR screen, or
all graphics?
Dave Lyons How fast is fast? Probably the best way is to know enough about
the image on there that you can
Dave Lyons actually *avoid* copying parts of the data that don't matter
(avoid scrolling solid background,
SPW it is text and graphics
Dave Lyons for example).
AFA Gary J Ok, let's get started.
AFA Gary J Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum. Tonight's topic
is...
AFA Gary J Marketing your Software. We'll be using Forum Protocol starting
NOW,
AFA Gary J so if you have a question, type a "?" on a line by itself, or if
you have a
AFA Gary J comment on the current topic, please type a "!" on a line by
itself. I'll
AFA Gary J keep track of who's up next (who's on first :) and will call on
you in turn.
AFA Gary J First, I'd like to ask, are there any here who have successfully
marketed
AFA Gary J software?
AFA Gary J Nobody? :)
Nuzz I have
BOBWOB I sold software to a company ..a few times..
A2Evanglst afk
AFA Parik true
AFA Gary J Ok, let's let VICTORYSFT ask his question, GA, VICTORYSFT
VICTORYSFT Oh, I was just going to ask what you meant by sucessfully market
software.
AFA Gary J What we mean by successfully marketing software is developing a
software
AFA Gary J product that has successfully gone to market (and sold :)
AFA Gary J Ok, Bob, you have the floor next. GA, Bob
BOBWOB Is it possible to be profitable going the shareware? $
AFA Gary J It depends on how you define profitable, Bob.. GA, Coach :)
Coach101 Profitability means income exceeds expenses....
Coach101 ShareWare is a risky proposition. You will see a whole lot more
downloads than you ever see
Coach101 checks in the mail. Some of this people who tried it and did not
like it, some will be people that
Coach101 collect everything and use nothing, some will just not pay for
shareware.
Coach101 I do not think you will ever support yourself from a shareware
product but it is way to get a little
Coach101 income and establish a reputation. But, be ready for your blood
pressure to rise when you count the
Coach101 difference bbetween the downloads and the checks...
Coach101 done
BOBWOB how much money has anyone made using the shareware method of
marketing
AFA Gary J VICTORYSFT, did you have a comment for Bob?
VICTORYSFT Yes, I was just going to say that after talking to several authors
on different
VICTORYSFT machines, all of them agreed that shareware gets next to
nothing.
VICTORYSFT Even for useful stuff (or fun stuff), the typical gross is less
than $300.00
AFA Gary J I've heard of takes over $500.
VICTORYSFT Usually Mac
AFA Gary J Anyone else here have any experience with shareware?
AFA JoeyS Yesssssss...
AFA Gary J Yes, Joey, of course. GA
AFA JoeyS Soundmaster is currently running...
AFA JoeyS at over 900 downloads, and with a little over 50 registrations
(haven't yet
AFA JoeyS processed all mail from June). That's one of my =better=
ShareWare projects in
AFA JoeyS terms of user response. Ack. GA...
BOBWOB Ok scratch shareware...what is a good way to go?
AFA Gary J GA, Parik
AFA Parik i dunno but on the IBoughtMuck i've seen companies that only sell
1 shareware
AFA Parik piece but have 1-800 lines, tech support, and lots more! wow!
better than
AFA Parik some commercial vendors. :) ga
AFA Gary J GA, Dave
Dave Lyons My shareware has sold (er...registered?) moderately well...I have
well over 100 registerd
Dave Lyons registered users for each of my 3 shareware products. Not enough
to live on or anything,
Dave Lyons but good. ga
AFA Gary J GA, VICTORYSFT
VICTORYSFT Some friends of mine released shareware DA's for Windows on the
IBM
VICTORYSFT several years ago, and well they have seen almost nothing.
VICTORYSFT From what I've heard, shareware on IBM is not rosier than any
other machine.
VICTORYSFT GA
AFA Gary J Ok, Bob did you have another question?
BOBWOB Is ther a chance a big software place will steal from you?
AFA Gary J Yes (There's a chance :)
BOBWOB how do you p[rotect your self
AFA Gary J You have to be careful on how you setup your agreement with
them.
AFA Parik (Guido the killer pirate will come after you)
AFA Gary J Anyone here with direct experience with this that would like to
comment?
AFA Gary J GA, Mike
Nuzz You should have THEM sign a Non_Disclosure when submitting
software for review.
Nuzz GA
Sutlief What is a good way of contacting a software vendor about selling
software, when
Sutlief the software is ready to be sent to them? (After contacting them
about their
Sutlief software submission guidelines.)
AFA Gary J GA, Nuzz
Nuzz I found it best to make a personal phone call, followed by
another, then
Nuzz another... It is tough to get the first foot in the door.
Nuzz And contact more than 1 vendor (mail order I assume) GA
AFA Gary J You should do your homework beforehand, as well, as to WHICH
vendors to contact
AFA Gary J (i.e. the one's most likely to market a software product that you
produced)
AFA Gary J (The KIND of product you produced, that is)
Sutlief I have checked about what companies might be good companies to
submit the
Sutlief software to
Nuzz Sut, are you talking publishers or vendors?
AFA Gary J Sutlief?
Sutlief I'm talking about the people who actually produce the software.
Sutlief I mean the ones that have their names on packages.
AFA Gary J I think it's just pretty much what Nuzz said, be persistant once
you find
AFA Gary J the publishers you wish to contact.
AFA Gary J Ok, let's move on to Michael's question. Could you re-state your
question
AFA Gary J for us Michael?
Michael52 What are some pitfalls to look out for if a person were to start
their own
Michael52 company to market their own software?
AFA Gary J GA, A2Evanglst
A2Evanglst Being Unknown.... and usually the lack of money to market the
product
Michael52 Ahh! But how to get known!
AFA Gary J GA, A2
A2Evanglst Spend lots of money... that is the way to get known... Marketing
your own soft
A2Evanglst ware isn't easy when you look at the rates in the publications
that you want
A2Evanglst show off in... I belive that a full page in Incider costs around
6000 bucks..
Michael52 Holy !@#$!
A2Evanglst Can someone back me up on that?
AFA Parik it can cost up to $10k depending on where it is (inside cover).
AFA Gary J I know it's somewhere around that, A2. The prices I knew of
where for A+
AFA Gary J (a few years ago)
DanW190 Ouch!
AFA Parik (plus artist fees for making the ad. xenocide ad cost 15k+)
Nuzz $6000 general full page ad in Incider
DanW190 (faint)
Michael52 So does it pay off usually? Is it a good investment for a good
piece of software?
AFA Gary J GA, Coach
Coach101 Does it pay off is a tough question...
Michael52 Well, I'm not talking about marketing games... ga
Coach101 First, it can not pay off if people do not really want your
software...
Coach101 That is, if you are trying to reach a market that exists, it may
pay off....
Coach101 If you are trying to reach a market that does not exist, it will
never pay off....
Michael52 So then software prices of $100+ are justified?
Coach101 The trick, and its tough, is to guage whether you "feel of the
public's pulse" is right...
Coach101 That is, did you write something that people want or need....
ga
Michael52 I understand. ga
AFA Gary J Very good point, Coach. Anything else, Michael?
Michael52 No, thank-you.
AFA Gary J Ok, DanW has our next question.. GA Dan
DanW190 OK........ How does one get a copyright on one's (a group's)
work? I mean...
DanW190 I hear you can mail the software to yourself..proving you had it
first...or
DanW190 you can pay the copyright office to do so.. which is the better
deal?
AFA Gary J GA, Sutlief
Sutlief I have checked with the copyright offices a while back and the
lays says that
Sutlief the software has to be authored by the person that is sending in
for the
Sutlief registration or someone that had authorized the author to write
it. GA
DanW190 ok...well we've got someone else also writing some code..they're
gonna use..
DanW190 those routines in their programs too... so would we have a
"double" copyright..
DanW190 meaning that our work would be (c)'d and his work would also have
a (c) in it?
DanW190 ga
AFA Gary J Go ahead with your comment, A2Evanglst
A2Evanglst Pay the copyright office.... If the product is worth stealing then
it is worth
A2Evanglst a proper copyright... as for double copyrights... that is a bit
tricky...
A2Evanglst You might just have the guy copyright the routines and then
licence them to you
A2Evanglst via a license agreement
AFA Gary J GA with your comment, Parik
AFA Parik a mailed copyright is only effective for 5 years, I believe. When
you are
AFA Parik done with the product, mail in for the copyright. It costs $20 as
of last
AFA Parik week (used to be $10).
AFA Parik (mailed copyright = mail to yourself). ga
AFA JoeyS (Really, Parik?? grr, grumble -- that's more of my $ down the
drain)
AFA Parik good old George raised the price! :-)
DanW190 OK...thanks... and finally....
AFA Gary J What's your other question, Dan?
DanW190 what if the name of your company is somewhat similar to another
existing...well
DanW190 I mean...what if you don't know if it exists? (I hear the name
search is
DanW190 VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYY expensive and takes
FOREVER!) ga
AFA Gary J GA, Tap
AFC TAP I;'d go ahead and register under whatever name you have..
AFC TAP you can always change your name if you have to...
AFC TAP name searches are expensive...
AFC TAP and are not always necessary...
DanW190 other companies won't sue you?
DanW190 (no our name is not apple or ibm) :)
AFC TAP IF your sued.. then change it, settle out of court
AFC TAP names are just that.. they have to prove its confusing, not
you...
AFC TAP there are thousands of companies.. many hundreds have the same
name
AFC TAP and dont really care...
AFC TAP ga
AFA Gary J GA, Coach
Coach101 I missed what Tap said (knocked off line)...
DanW190 Basically...ga with search. Companies don't mind of other have
their name.
Coach101 But, go to you local county courthouse and check the filings for
fictictious names...
Coach101 If it comes up clean, or if there is a similar name that is not in
a associated industry, then
Coach101 register your name.... To do the job properly in California, you
have to publish the name
Coach101 in a "legal" newspaper and submit certification of publication
back to the court....
DanW190 (well I'm Illinois; the silicon flatlands) :)
Coach101 If you get big enough that some company on the other coast has a
problem with your name,
Coach101 then you will proabably be big enough to have an attorney to
straighten the mess out....
Coach101 ga
AFA Gary J Thanks Coach. Anything else, Dan?
DanW190 (it's not an Apple name..it _may_ be an Amiga name) ga who's
next
DanW190 thanks
Matt DTS If you're concerned about Apple trademarks, our legal department
has a list of Apple trademarks
Matt DTS and their proper usage, as well as guidelines on how to name your
software not to conflict. Free for
Matt DTS the asking at the same place you contact Software Licensing.
GA.