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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, February 26, 1991 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic: Open Topic
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
AFA Gary J Does anyone know if ORCA/M has a bitwise logical directive for
immediate data?
AFA Gary J (Like LDA #Lable.EOR.$FFFF)
AFA Gary J (I can't seem to find anything that works BIT-WISE in the docs)
ShanoJ It doesn't. I asked last week. :(
AFA Parik there's .and. i believe
AFA Parik look on page 175
ShanoJ But none of the .xxx.'s are bitwise... They all return either 0 or
1.
AFA Gary J Yeah, there's .and. and also .or., but they are boolean.
AFA Parik oh, you're right. bummer
AFA Gary J Right, Jonah.
AFL Dyfet That's what C is for ;)
AFA Parik waste the extra cycles and let the gs do it ;)
AFA Gary J I guess the only way is to figure it out yourself, and stick it
in.
ShanoJ The best we could come up with is #$FFFF-myConstant
AFA Gary J (I think Merlin has a way to do it)
AFA Gary J That's a good way, Jonah.
AFL Dyfet Tonight's our open topic night.....
AFL Dyfet Okay, what development topics do others wish to persue?? :)
Dave Lyons Anybody wanna know the stupidest thing I did lately? Okay, I'll
tell you anyway: I was using
Dave Lyons LocalToGlobal and GlobalToLocal to translate
Dave Lyons rectangles between local and global coordinates. It wasn't
working too well!
Dave Lyons (Those calls offset POINTS, not rectangles. I was only offsetting
the top-left of my rectangles.)
Dave Lyons :-( It's okay, I only wasted about 20 minutes figuring this out.
:)
AFA Gary J :)
ShanoJ That's okay, took me about 2 DAYS to figure out how to make a
rectagle drawing
ShanoJ tool work properly so you could draw up and to the left instead of
only down
ShanoJ and to the right. Whazzat? Switch the coordinates? Ooooohhhh....
:)
AFA Gary J GSBug showed you the way, no doubt? :) (It has done so to me,
many times :)
Dave Lyons Yeah, I didn't whack myself on the forehead until I watched 2 out
of the 4 words of my rectangle
Dave Lyons change when I executed the call in GSBug. DUH....
AFA Gary J :)
AFA Gary J (I have an imprint of my hand - permanant - on my forehead :)
Dave Lyons (Yeah, but switch a COPY of the coordinates while you're
rubber-banding, or you can get a really
Dave Lyons icky effect. You need to keep your anchor point intact.)
AFL Dyfet Don't rattle your skull :)
ShanoJ Ya, after figuring out to switch 'em at all, that only took
another 5 or 6
ShanoJ hours... :)
Matt DTS Is there any chance we're going to discuss programming here
tonight?
AFA Gary J I hope so, Matt
JayJ 89 <--Q about LongStatText2
AFL Dyfet Me too, Matt! Okay, since we have an interesting crowd here now,
is there any-
AFL Dyfet one who is currently looking for help with a project?
AFA Gary J Go for it, Jay (we need a question)
JayJ 89 Ok, what are the 'embedded codes'?
JayJ 89 are they the same ones for the long line edit 2 one?
Matt DTS Well, it turns out (in researching this a while back), that
Toolbox Reference doesn't actually
Matt DTS bother to tell you that LongStatText2 items are drawn with
LETextBox2.
Matt DTS (I think it was in the release notes for System Disk 2.0 or
something.) Anyway, LETextBox2 codes
Matt DTS are what you use. GA.
JayJ 89 AH! :) I thought so, but I wasn't sure :)
AFL Dyfet Okay, anyone else have a question?
Dave Lyons Jonah, BTW on rubber-banding rectangles. Have you noticed the QD
call "Pt2Rect"? It takes care of
Dave Lyons building a rectangle out of 2 points for you. (Not that it's
hard, but it's there. More useful than
Dave Lyons "SetPt", for example. :-)
ShanoJ Oh, I've got one for the Apple guys: ever looked at the
description of
ShanoJ SelectMember2 in TB Ref3? It's not documented too well... :(
Matt DTS No, Jonah. We had an agreement that no one would look at that
call's description. We're frankly
Matt DTS amazed it's included at all.
Matt DTS :-P
Dave Lyons (looking...)
AFL Dyfet :)
Dave Lyons Okay, I read it. What does it omit?
Surak TFF It omits everything... :)
Matt DTS Jonah seems to have bit the big one. He'll probably be back,
though.
Surak TFF Well, this was one of the things he helped me out on with my list
control...
Surak TFF See, the SelectMember2 and ResetMember2 descriptions in TB3 are
virtually
Surak TFF identical...
ShanoJ That was an example of the crash I'd been talking about, Dave...
:(
AFA Gary J Must be the 1200 baud, Jonah :)
ShanoJ Naw, I've been having the hellish problem that about 5% of the
time, when I hit
ShanoJ OA-Ctl-Esc to go to the CP, the GS freezes. :(
Matt DTS Let me try a different tack: Why is the SelectMember2
documentation inadequate?
Matt DTS What didn't you understand?
ShanoJ Well, SelectMember2 doesn't say exactly what it does. Compare the
SelectMember
ShanoJ and SelectMember call descriptions to see what the problem is.
Matt DTS You wanna try that again, Jonah?
Surak TFF Jonah, do you mean ResetMember2?
ShanoJ Wait a sec, I've got the wrong call here... :( I meant
ResetMember2. It doesn't
ShanoJ say that it resets the member, it just says that it returns the
selected one.
ShanoJ (Is it Monday? Sure feels like one... :( )
Dave Lyons The only interesting difference I see is that SelectMember says
"Important: The specified
Dave Lyons member is not selected if it is disabled."
Dave Lyons Yeah, good point. But you can figure it out by osmosis if you put
TB Ref 1 on your head while
Dave Lyons you read it....
ShanoJ That makes the call LOOK identical to NextMember2, which it's
NOT.
Matt DTS Ah. Yeah, the List Manager Update chapter originally didn't
include *any* call descriptions.
Matt DTS They all just said "XXXX2 works just like XXXX; see Volume 1 for
details." The actual descriptions
Matt DTS were added late in the cycle and didn't get as much attention as
they should have. Sorry.
ShanoJ Actually, this is about the only one that I DIDN'T get tripped up
on. A friend
ShanoJ did, though, which is why I thought I'd bring it to your
attention.
Dave Lyons (I've made a note to get somebody to cram something into #24 for
the 'next' TN batch. Next=May)
Dave Lyons (So, did you find Pt2Rect? Was that what made you hang?)
Surak TFF :)
ShanoJ Ya, I went to look in NL at Pt2Rect, and the computer froze. :( By
ya, I
ShanoJ whipped out the book and you're right, that would work a lot
better. :) Is
ShanoJ there a call like that for the Mac with a different name? I seem
to remember
ShanoJ seeing something like that, then looking in my GS books and not
being able to
ShanoJ find it...
AFA Gary J McPt2Rect
Dave Lyons I think it's Pt2Rect on the Mac, too...that's actually where I
used it first (ducking).
ShanoJ Hmm... Okay, guess it was just a stupid programmer error... :)
ShanoJ Okay, I've got a general question...
ShanoJ You can go first, Mike...
Nuzz I read in a technote( Ithink) that there is a clipboard scrap
type
Nuzz How would that be displayed? As data, etc
Nuzz GA
Nuzz oops, for sound I mean
Matt DTS Waitwaitwait...
Matt DTS Oh.
JWankerl (On the same note, is the TextEdit style scrap type documented?)
Matt DTS I would recommend displaying a button in a clipboard window that
lets you play the sound.
Matt DTS As for TE scraps - this will be documented in the March 1991
revision to IIgs #99. It's basically
Matt DTS just a TEFormat structure in the given scrap type (which I don't
recall off the top of my head).
Matt DTS GA
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Surak :)
Dave Lyons ($64, I think)
Surak TFF Well, I was just going to say that a sound clipboard scrap would
most probably
Surak TFF be either played, or displayed in a sound program as a graphic
representation
Surak TFF of the waveform....
Surak TFF GS
Surak TFF (Arrgh... GA)
Nuzz The reason I asked is that I noticed that HCGS uses both picture
and (data?) as
Nuzz scrap
Nuzz when you cut a card
Nuzz will that be documented too?
Dave Lyons (HCGS uses at least 8 nonstandard scrap types; we may wind up
documenting some of them, but I'm not
Dave Lyons sure how many that would be appropriate for. We'll see for May.
ga)
AFL Dyfet I guess Jonah is next :)...GA Jonah...
ShanoJ Okay, this is another survey question: I'm writing a module for
NiftyList. The
ShanoJ 'theme' of this module is "File stuff". Currently it'll save any
block of
ShanoJ memory to a file, load a file into memory, dump either the data or
resource
ShanoJ fork of a file to the screen (in a format like ;h) set prefixes,
give file and
ShanoJ device info, expand pathnames, and give info on filetypes (like
the \rtype
ShanoJ comand). What else would YOU like to see added?
Dave Lyons Does it load a file into a new handle?
Dave Lyons Does the hex-dump stuff do duplicate-line compression like ;h?
ShanoJ No, you give it an address for the loadblk command (e12000\loadblk
"MyScreen")
ShanoJ "duplicate-line compression"?
ShanoJ The new handle is a good idea, though! :)
Dave Lyons If you give loadblk a 0 address, I'd like to see it return you a
newly allocated handle full of the
Dave Lyons file contents.
Dave Lyons Jonah, do a 2000.3000;h or something; unless to turn off the
preference, it compresses duplicate
Dave Lyons lines of information (like long blocks of $00s) into a single
line, filled with '' '' ''...
JWankerl It should also load blocks from either a resource fork or a data
fork.
Dave Lyons Does the filetype stuff use FTDs in *:Icons?
Dave Lyons Is there a Catalog command?
ShanoJ Quite right, it does... Never noticed that. :(
ShanoJ Quite right, Joe. Dunno how I missed that one. :(
ShanoJ Catalog is on the list already, and no, it uses it's own data file
for the
ShanoJ filetypes...
Matt DTS WRONG!
Matt DTS (John McLaughlin imitation)
Matt DTS What, may I ask, is the point of using your own file for filetype
information when there's already
Matt DTS a well-documented format to use? It's like having an icon file
that's not Finder-compatible.
ShanoJ Come on, Matt, you can answer that yourself--it was a helluva lot
easier.
ShanoJ Don't you know me that well by know?! :)
JWankerl (Well, to be silly, no other program uses Finder icons -- I don't
think)
Matt DTS "easy" <> "right"
ShanoJ "by know"?! LOL... :(
Dave Lyons At the risk of being concise and polite, I suggest you use FTDs
when you get a chance. But don't
Dave Lyons delay releasing your module for that, do it in 1.1.
Matt DTS So you'll make everyone store the same information on disk twice,
and in memory twice, and it won't
Matt DTS be updatable by replacing FTDs, and will generally be a pain.
(Concise and polite? He just wants
Matt DTS more modules released soon. :)
AFA Gary J :)
ShanoJ I'll work on adding that, though... It's a good idea and I SHOULD
have done it
ShanoJ in the first place.
Nuzz Hey, GDL uses Finder Icons :)
ShanoJ Though, to tell the truth, my FIRST version used the filetypes
built into the
ShanoJ program (they were in a DATA/END block). At least this version
load's 'em from
ShanoJ a file like NiftyList does all of it's data... (boy, was that
fun... :)
ShanoJ Okay any other suggestions?
JWankerl Not any that I can think of right now, nope.
Dave Lyons Do you have a \type command to read a regular text file?
ShanoJ Damn, you know I thought of that right before I started this... So
no, I don't,
ShanoJ but it's coming....
Dave Lyons That would be really handy!
AFL Dyfet Yes it would!
AFA Gary J Yep (I use Filetools for that now)
ShanoJ Ya, and I could get rid of Glen Bredon's 'TypeIt' :)
ShanoJ (I already dumped DumpIt...:)
AFA Gary J :)
Matt DTS I wonder how appropriate it is to turn Nifty List into a shell
just because we *can*.
ShanoJ Okay, well, this is an ongoing thing, so if you ever wake up in
the middle of
ShanoJ the night with a desire for another feature, you know where to
find me...
AFA Gary J Now, we just need to make Nifty List access the ORCA assembler
Dave Lyons Matt, you don't have to use the commands if you don't like them.
Matt DTS Not my point, Dave. I was just wondering about the consequences
of a CDA-based shell, and if it's a
Matt DTS good idea whether it should be something that interprets EXE files
and shell commands as well.
AFL Dyfet With Nifty Programmers Workbench?? :")...Nifty-C and Nifty-Pascal
:)
ShanoJ I'm done--your turn, Joe.
AFA Gary J :)
ShanoJ (I think it's a good idea, myself. It cuts down on a lot of the
overhead with
ShanoJ all of the cool stuff Dave's built into there...)
JWankerl Okay, um... can I start up the ResourceManager with a derived ID
using the
JWankerl new StartUpTools call to make the resource manager load resources
using that
JWankerl alternate ID?
Dave Lyons Yes, no problem.
Dave Lyons Just make sure you use the exact same ID if you call
Dave Lyons SetCurResourceApp. Different derived IDs -are- considered
different by the Resource Manager.
JWankerl Also, I install an application code resource converter - does it
need to be
JWankerl uninstalled before I shut down or does the ResourceShutDown kill
it?
Dave Lyons If you're an NDA and want the system to make you the current
resource app when it calls you, you
Dave Lyons must use your $50xx ID, not a $5nxx ID. ga
Dave Lyons ResourceShutDown automatically logs out your converters for you,
you don't have to log them
Dave Lyons out first.
JWankerl Okay, that saves 5 lines of code. :-) One final ? for me --
about FMD --
JWankerl I want to install it as a user tool, what files do I need in my
applications
JWankerl directory to do this? FakeModalTool? Is that it? It looks a bit
short to
JWankerl do this.
Dave Lyons Yup, just FakeModalTool.
Dave Lyons (It's pretty compact.)
JWankerl Okay, thanks. That's it for now.
ShanoJ (Matt, do I need to log out Twiligt's converter?)
Matt DTS Jonah: When do you shut Twilight down?
ShanoJ (At system shut down. But I only use the converter once, when
BootCDEV is
ShanoJ called.)
Matt DTS Then it wouldn't hurt to log it out when you're done with it to
save a little memory (if you can also
Matt DTS dispose of it).
Dave Lyons (Is the converter just the CodeResConverter?)
Matt DTS (Dave: No, a custom one.)