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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, December 25, 1990 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic: Open Discussion
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
HyperWare1 Does anyone here have APW?
Coach101 Yes...
HyperWare1 How much is it?
AFA Gary J Yes
AFA Gary J Get ORCA/M: $39
HyperWare1 How much for ORCA/C
Goalie5 Is Orca shell the same as APW shell?
Jupiter Re $80 from programs plus
AFA Gary J Hmmm... ORCA/C $150? But you should be able to get it for around
$75 or so.
FeinDavid Yeah... Apple's new DEVELOP magazine had articles for the IIgs on
how to
FeinDavid program the IIgs using your MAcintosh!
Goalie5 Does anyone in here have a MAC???
FeinDavid I just ordered a Mac Classic.
FeinDavid To go ALONG with my GS! Not replace!
HyperWare1 Burn him
HyperWare1 Can't you use the Apple IIgs, on applelink?
DangardAce Yes you can but the software looks like it was written in old
Pascal.
AFA Gary J AppleLink on an Apple II is junk, from what I hear.
DangardAce It is junk. It works like the old AppleLink software, only
worse.
DangardAce There's like maybe 50 Mac messages as opposed to ONE Apple II
message there
Goalie5 I got a friend with a mac. Does DiskCopy come with all macs?
FeinDavid Hey... I'm a firm GS supporter... Gary! Help! Yes. Disckcopy
comes with all
FeinDavid Macs...
AFA Gary J I'll vouch for FeinDavid :) He IS a firm GS supporter.
FeinDavid Thanx Gary.... 8)
Goalie5 I;d like to become a developer.
HyperWare1 I'm 13, so I can't.
Goalie5 Coach, do all MACS come with DiskCopy?
Coach101 I am not sure.... I do not think so. It is however
Coach101 on the CDs that have been distributed with DEVELOP.
Goalie5 I don't have those CD's. I'm calling my friend with a MAC and
have him call
Goalie5 and try to get DiskCopy off of here.
HyperWare1 Well, I can't afford a MAC, and where do you get all this stuff,
you guys are
HyperWare1 talking about?
Goalie5 Is DiskCopy available on here?
Goalie5 And DeHex
Coach101 I do not know.... Try the MUT and MDV forums..
AFA Gary J What do you need DiskCopy for?
Goalie5 To Decompress System 5.0.4
AFA Gary J Hmmm. Ok.
Goalie5 I got system 5.0.4 but it needs Stuffit, DeHex and DiskCopy
SteveB System 5.0.4???
SteveB Oh, mac :)
Goalie5 I got it from Apple this afternoon
AFA Gary J If you wait a few weeks, 5.0.4 should be available online here.
Goalie5 No GS system 5.0.4
Goalie5 I have it right here on my Hard Drive
Goalie5 (Compressed)
SteveB yep, in a few weeks :)
Goalie5 Then I'll throw it up here for everyone
Coach101 You can not put 5.0.4 here for release Goalie....
Goalie5 Why not???? ::Sniff::
Coach101 Only an Apple authorized copy can be place here for
Coach101 downloading....
Goalie5 That's what Apple said to use..
Coach101 Not that you have done anything wrong, but your
Coach101 personal copy can not be put up for down loading..
AFA Gary J Correct. It must be the electronic distribution licensed copy.
AFA Gary J Stuffit AND DiskCopy? I don't understand. (I'm really not
familiar with
AFA Gary J DiskCopy, even though I do have a Mac)
DangardAce Stuffit alone can do it.
FeinDavid How did you get it from Apple?
Goalie5 I FTP'ed it from APple (Don't ask)
DangardAce Oh really?
FeinDavid Is it golden?
DangardAce 5.0.4 is on Apple.Apple.com?
AFL Dyfet I gather it is Ace...
Goalie5 Yup, Ace. FTP'ed it this morning
Goalie5 I got it from MCImail and my BBS
DangardAce Anyone know any public access Unixs? :)
AFL Dyfet My site at home is tied to North Western U...:)
Goalie5 OIC. :) Mine is tied to Crash Timeshare
AFC TAP Mine is tied to my watch...
Goalie5 :)
HyperWare1 How can you get on Apple.COm
HyperWare1 How can I get on AppleLink, Apple Edition??????????????
Coach101 HyperWare, one way to get on AppleLink Apple Edition is to become
an Apple Partner (aka
Coach101 Certified Developer in the old days)...
HyperWare1 I can't, I'm only 13, you have to be 18.
Goalie5 BRB, checking Mac forums
DangardAce Try MUT first,
Goalie5 ok.
DangardAce they have all that unpacking muck for the Muck.
SteveB My First ADV Conference! :)
AFL Dyfet Welcome aboard Steve!
SteveB Thank you Dave! :)
SteveB Hey Scott!!!!!!!!! :)
DangardAce Scott! Merry Christmas!
AFL Scott Hi Steve, Pete, Scott, everyone! Merry Christmas to you all!
Coach101 Good evening Scott
AFA Gary J Hi Scott!
AFL Scott Hiya, Coach!
SteveB Merry Christmas Scott! :)
AFL Scott Hiya Gary!
AFL Scott Yo! Marty!!!
AFL Marty Yo!
SteveB Yo Marty! Merry Christmas!!! :)
AFL Dyfet So what did St. Woz bring you all this Christmas? :)
SteveB the EXELLENT AFL's are here!! ;)
AFL Scott LOL!
AFA Gary J :)
Coach101 :)
SteveB Including dave, of course! ;)
AFL Scott I got a Union suit! I love it!
Coach101 Nice
Coach101 Christmas card AGR Staff!
AFL Scott Thanks, Coach! It was all Teds work! He's very industrious!
SteveB St/ Woz gave me a 40 meg HD :)
FeinDavid St. Woz gave me crud.
AFL Dyfet Among other things, St. Woz performed an Apple-mas miracle, and
ressurected my
AFL Dyfet IW II for me :)
AFA Gary J :)
DangardAce St. Woz game me a lump of Mac for all the badmouthing I've given
Apple.
AFA Gary J A lump of Mac?
AFL Marty Geez Pete... you must've been extra terrible this year.
DangardAce Quite.
AFA Gary J One of the best things I saw for sale at Applefest was being sold
at the wrong
AFA Gary J side of the show. It was a little stuffed Macintosh that you are
supposed to
AFA Gary J through against the wall, and that sort of thing, when you get
mad. They were
AFA Gary J selling them on the MAC side of the conference, though, and I
think they would
AFA Gary J have done better selling them on the Apple II side :)
DangardAce I had one, Gary. Wore it out. :)
A2GS BTW was there a new issue of "II at work" at the Fest??
AFA Gary J Not that I saw, A2GS
DangardAce Barney didn't even bother to show, Alb.
A2GS Was Barney Stone at the show?
DangardAce No.
DangardAce I saw glimpses of Tom Weishaar.
A2GS and, scott???????
Jupiter Re st.woz got me a zip chip gsx 1600
FeinDavid Congrats Jupiter!
FeinDavid Like it?
Jupiter Re yeah its nice...
SteveB Poor Jonah.....still not connected :((
FeinDavid So, How do I get the ROM revision number for the IIgs?
DangardAce Turn it on :)
SteveB Dave, check out some sample...
SteveB source code in the ADV libs. :)
FeinDavid No, not by turning it on...
FeinDavid grrr...
AFL Scott Read the firmware ref. manual, Dave. They have it in there!:)
FeinDavid checking....
SteveB There is sample code (in CP) in the ADV libs!! :)
AFL Dyfet There is a firmware call...$FE1F, I believe, which will return the
rom id # on
AFL Dyfet a IIgs.
AFL Dyfet It's all in the firmware ref. manual, as Scott said :)
AFL Scott Who here get's Apple Direct?
FeinDavid Why
Coach101 I do
DangardAce Alb, don't you get it?
A2GS Sorta, kinda, not really, sometimes :)
AFL Scott What'd you think of the lead article?
DangardAce What was the lead article? "Find A Deep Pit And Deposit Your GS
In It?"
Coach101 It was not really a surprise to me
A2GS oh
AFL Scott It was called "The Age of Discovery"... No surprise to me
either.
FeinDavid What is the lead article? What is it?
A2GS What was the lead article in Apple Direct?
DangardAce The Age Of Discovering Your GS is A Goner?
AFL Scott Scroll up a few lines, A2GS!:)
DangardAce Synopses, please!
A2GS Yeah, but what was discussed in the article, as if I didn't
know?
AFL Scott (let's let Steve finish his question)
SteveB thanks Scott :)
AFL Dyfet Yes Steve?
SteveB This is a techy question.... :)
SteveB Yo Rick! Merry X-mas! :)
RTAFT Hi Gang! Merry Christmas!
AFL Dyfet Okay...let's give some room for Steve here....What's your
question?
SteveB OK, I need some clues on how to respond to one of the SFP
calls.... :)
SteveB Std file toolbox :)
SteveB Ok...
SteveB In the SFPGetFile2 call, I need to define a ....
SteveB procedure to handle clicking events...
SteveB in the dialog. Now, I used the following...
SteveB This is in Complete Pascal:
SteveB SFPGetFile2(20,20,nil,refIsPointer,Ref(@'testing'),
SteveB nil,nil,Dlog,Definition,Reply);
SteveB Now, I defined Definition as this:
SteveB Procedure definition(Button: Integer);
SteveB But, when I compile and run, it freezes. Why? :(
SteveB ::Great minds working::: ;)
AFL Dyfet ::buzz:: ::clank:: :)
SteveB LOL! :)
AFA Gary J Wait 'till spring. It'll thaw by then :)
A2GS Suggestion....: send a note to either Dave Lyons or Matt
Deatherage (Matt DTS)
A2GS explaining your problem.
SteveB hehe..anyone know? :)
AFL Dyfet Not off-hand....
Coach101 Searching for the book..... Wait one....
SteveB Thanks coach! :)
SteveB the SFP calls really give me a hard time :)
SteveB (Talk about a question of the year! :)
A2GS They're actually VERY easy to deal with in Assembly Language
compared with other
A2GS tool calls.
SteveB Yea, I DLed Jonah's code, but no help there :)
A2GS I believe his code was for a "Custon SFO" window.
SteveB In ASM, all you have to di is pull it off the stack...not so easy
in Pascal! :)
A2GS exactly
AFA Gary J It could be the way you have variables defined (since nothing
really seems
AFA Gary J obvious from your values). Like, are variables words or long.
AFA Gary J What I'd do if I were you (assuming that all your values turn out
to be right)
AFA Gary J is drop into Nifty List (or GSBug) and list it out in assembly,
to see exactly what's
AFA Gary J going on the stack. That'll reveal any inconsistancies.
SteveB Yep, is it a LongInt?
AFL Scott Steve, you shouldn't have to test for a click. SFP does that for
you. If you don't need a custom
AFL Scott SF dialog don't use SFP, just stick with SF.
SteveB Well scott, I'm using the SFP to make up my own dialog :)
SteveB SFP dialog :)
A2GS if anything it should be SFO (Standard File Operations)
Coach101 Steve, this question crossed into pascal syntax
SteveB Yup...
Coach101 which is not in my scope, but it looks to me like
Coach101 a pascal routine that is expecting two parameters
Coach101 ItemHit and DialogPort will work just fine...
Coach101 ga
A2GS BTW is this a Put or a Get Dialog?
SteveB It's a put. :)
A2GS I would assume Put (SFP)
SteveB Coach!! Thanks!!!! :)
SteveB So, its:
Coach101 I do not remember the arguement order on the stack
Coach101 for Pascal so you may have to invert the arguements
SteveB Procedure HandleJunk(Button: Integer; Dlog: WindpwPtr);
Coach101 from the way I listed them.... ga
SteveB right? :)
Coach101 By the way, why use SFP?
SteveB SFPPutFile2?
Coach101 The straight SF would avoid your problem.
SteveB Well, what other options other than SFP do I have?
Coach101 The stack order is: DialogPort, ItemHit, RTL
SteveB So coach, how would I define a def procedure?
SteveB As far as you can tell.. :)
Coach101 SFPutFile2 does not require the interaction with
Coach101 your program and puts up a standard save dialog box.
SteveB SFPPutFile2, is what I mean.
Coach101 The SFPPut... is for a custom Dialog box. ga
SteveB What I want to do is define my OWN dialog...I know...
Coach101 Then you need what you are using.....
Coach101 The discussion on the DialogHitProcedure is in
Coach101 toolbox volume II ga
SteveB I only have TB III :(
SteveB <-- St. Woz wasn't good to me :(
Coach101 What are you writing SteveB?
SteveB So, it should go something like this:::
SteveB Oh, a Word processor! Have all the code, and just need to
SteveB put in custom SF dialogs :)
SteveB Procedure HandleJunk(Button: Integer; Dlog: WindowPtr); right?
:)
Coach101 Either that or reverse the argument order..
SteveB I should have taken up Assembly. ;)
SteveB Ok, Dlog, then Button :)
Coach101 Do you know what actions the system is expecting of your
routine?
Coach101 Oops........ !!!!!! ERROR !!!!!!
SteveB Yup; if it is SF's strict controls, then just exit the proc and
let SF handle
SteveB it...
Coach101 Both ItemHit and DialogPort are LONGs... 32 bits each......
SteveB But, if its mine, then I use GetDitemValue and SetDItemvalue...
:)
SteveB Hmmm....
Coach101 Also, if you set ItemHit to 0 (zero) indicates that your dialog
hit routine handled the hit...
Coach101 Leave it unchanged and SF will do the work for you...
SteveB Procedure HandletheThing(Button: LongInt; Window: Longint);
right?
SteveB or visa-versa... :)
Coach101 Yeah, the call will looks good (50/50 chance on
Coach101 parameter order) but you might want to make the last item a
pointer to the proper record type
Coach101 to ease your use of it. ga
SteveB So, what do you mean by pointer?
SteveB making the last item?
Coach101 WindowPtr
SteveB Ohh....Dlog:WindowPtr...ok! :)
Coach101 Right....
SteveB So, the final output SHOULD be... :)
SteveB Procedure TheBetterWork(Item:LongInt:Win:WindowPtr);
Coach101 Looks good to me. If you do nothing in your
Coach101 routine, then things should work (without crashing)
Coach101 I would perform that test first to make sure that
Coach101 the linkage from SFP to you is OK (for example,
Coach101 not destroying the stack by taking too many or too few bytes off
the stack).
Coach101 Once that seems to work, start adding whatever code you need to
you procedure... ga
SteveB How do I find out if the routine is paking too many bytes off the
stack?
SteveB With NiftyList?
Coach101 Without using a debugger (like GSBug) and stepping
Coach101 through your program, just see if crashes under
Coach101 repetitive and varied use... ga
SteveB Ok...now to convert a longInt to a Integer, I use "@TheLongInt",
right? :)
SteveB Or do I just use the longInt in the SetDItemValue?
SteveB Directly?
Coach101 Does SetDItemValue want a 32 or 16 bit integer?
SteveB I don't know; I only have TB Ref III :(
SteveB Anyone know?
Coach101 Oops... Forgot that... Wait one while I dig up TB I
SteveB WAIT...needs a 16 bit...
SteveB I think... :)
SteveB Sorry guys for spending the whole hour on this :)
Coach101 I do not know Pascal and that is a Pascal ?
SteveB Yes...
Coach101 Dyfet: how does one say 16BitInt = 32BitInt in Pascal?
AFA Gary J That's my problem, I don't know Pascal either :)
Coach101 Gary, lets vote Dyfet the Pascal type :)
AFL Dyfet Pascal has automatic casting rules for int/long conversion....
SteveB That's my problem; I should have learned Assembly!!!! ;)
AFL Dyfet I am the C person, NOT Pascal :)
Coach101 So he just says it and the compiler will do thw work for him....
Coach101 SteveB.....
SteveB Yes...
AFL Dyfet Yes...
Coach101 The consensus of the non-Pascal types is just code
SteveB Ok...
Coach101 a statement that assigns a short intger the value from a long
integer and we expect
Coach101 that the compiler will take the low 16 bits for you. ga
SteveB So, where the SetDItemvalue call wants a integer var, I put the
LongInt?
AFL Dyfet Since the function is always defined first in Pascal, the size of
arguments
AFL Dyfet being passed are already known (this is not always the case in C,
for example),
Coach101 Yes Steve, use an assignment statement (=:) and
Coach101 the compiler will only move 16 bits for you...
AFL Dyfet so type conversion should occur...
AFL Dyfet (well actually casting)
AFL Dyfet (type conversion as such is more an ADA thing)
SteveB Ok, thanks! I'll report to all of you what the results are!! :)
Coach101 But, going from 32 to 16 bits is conversion!!!
AFL Dyfet The same int functions operate on 32 and 16 bit integers
(+/-/etc), which
AFL Dyfet implies it performs value casting much like C...
SteveB I see...the same as an integer...ok! Thanks A LOT coach!! :)
SteveB And Dave, too! :)
AFL Dyfet (incidently if it wont accept the value, the Pascal compiler will
report a
AFL Dyfet type mismatch)
AFL Dyfet (so it wont allow incorrect code, at least :)
SteveB thanks Dave :)