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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, November 6, 1990 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic: Apple IIGS System Software 5.0.3
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
AFL Dyfet Good evening and welcome to the Apple II Development Forum. We
will be
AFL Dyfet discussing and trying to answer questions in regards to System
5.0.3 tonight,
AFL Dyfet and we will be using PROTOCOL starting now. This means if you
have a question,
AFL Dyfet enter a '?' on a line by itself, and if you have a comment on a
question, enter
AFL Dyfet a '!' on a line by itself. You will each be called in turn.
There are no
AFL Dyfet doubt a number of questions in regards to changes in 5.0.3, and if
we can give
AFL Dyfet Matt a minute to summerize the important points, I think we will
be able to
AFL Dyfet move more smoothly from there....
ShanoJ So, what's new and cool in the 5.0.3 toolbox?!
Matt DTS Would you care to be more specific, Jonah? There are about 18
pages of release notes.
DaniF What is so specal that no one can bleave?!?
ShanoJ Well, for 5.0 you could say "there's a new toolset called TextEdit
that allows
ShanoJ you to do word processors really easily, and there's a new
Resource Manager."
ShanoJ Guess I was looking for a 'major points' summary like that,
Matt....
DaniF where is the release notes? Can they be found here?
Matt DTS The release notes were not sent electronically to licensees, so
they're not going to be available
Matt DTS online at first.
Matt DTS Let me page through my set of 5.0.3 documents and come up with
some changes:
Matt DTS Many things have been moved from one disk to another to accomodate
changed sizes in things like
Matt DTS the SCSI Manager (which supports DMA SCSI; 5.0.2's did not) and
ACE (which has been rewritten).
Matt DTS Bugs outlined in Tech Notes as "a bug in 5.0.2" are mostly fixed,
and many of the TNs have already
Matt DTS been corrected. GS/OS TN #1 shows which files on the disk have
changed, with two corrections:
Matt DTS 1) The LaserWriter driver did change for 5.0.3; the TN says it
did not, and
Matt DTS 2) The TN indicates there is an HP DeskJet Plus driver on the
disk; there is not.
Matt DTS The Window Manager has a new TaskMaster bit to let you feed it an
event record instead of it always
Matt DTS calling GetNextEvent - kind of an application version of
TaskMasterDA.
Matt DTS Standard File is very much changed. It is much more bug-free
(almost totally), and has a new
Matt DTS interface component. The "disk" button is replaced by "Volumes",
which puts a list of online volumes
Matt DTS in the file list area. The <tab> key still goes to the next
volume.
Matt DTS ACE has been rewritten to improve performance - it's now two to
three times faster.
Matt DTS The Resource Manager has a few nasty bugs fixed, as does TextEdit
- both are much more solid now.
Matt DTS You can now tell QuickDraw not to use FastFont at QDStartUp
time.
Matt DTS The ImageWriter and ImageWriter LQ drivers are totally new, from
scratch.
Matt DTS The IW driver is about two to three times faster, uses better
dialog boxes and has better color.
Matt DTS The new LQ driver is a NATIVE LQ driver, using all 27 pins, and
the same good interface and colors of
Matt DTS the new IW driver. The port drivers were changed to go up to
19,200 baud to help the LQ driver (a
Matt DTS full page of LQ data is a lot of stuff to be sending out the
serial port!)
Matt DTS >64K unclaimed interrupts is not a fatal error - it gives a dialog
that says "see your dealer".
Matt DTS Unloading segments by address now works again.
Matt DTS The UniDisk driver now correctly detects disk-switched condition
after returning from P8.
Matt DTS A new parameter was added to "Flush" to allow you to only flush
data blocks and not system blocks.
AFL Marty Yo Jonah!
Matt DTS A new call was added to the Miscellaneous Tools, "ConvSeconds" to
convert various date formats back
Matt DTS and forth.
Matt DTS There are lots more bug fixes, etc., but them's the highlights.
(No, I will NOT repeat them.)
Matt DTS :) GA
AFL Dyfet GA DaniF...
DaniF Is the over all speed with a HD and the plain SCSI card be
increased?
Matt DTS Not significantly, but a little bit I think. This is not a major
release, otherwise it would be
Matt DTS numbered 6.0. It probably could qualify as 5.1, but that would
require reprinting a whole lot of
Matt DTS manuals and passing the cost along, and we chose not to do that.
:) <GA>
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet Okay, the floor is now open for questions...
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Coach...
Coach101 Were there any changes in the AppleTalk boot over network process?
(particularly speed)
Coach101 ga
Matt DTS No, not in speed. A few bugs were fixed, though. <GA>
Coach101 Thanks.... ga
ShanoJ Matt'll probably tell me to read one of the tech notes, but you
mentioned a
ShanoJ problem with unloading a segment by address. What exactly was
wrong here? I
ShanoJ used it in Twilight.... :(
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Marty Read a technote Jonah.
Matt DTS It didn't work with ExpressLoad. See IIgs TN #22 (Ha! You were
right!) for more details.
Matt DTS (Jonah, it just gets to me because we spend a lot of time creating
a lot of documentation that you
Matt DTS don't seem to spend a lot of time reading. I'd rather do new
stuff than repeat the stuff I've already
Matt DTS done, and I'm sure you would too.) <GA>
ShanoJ Okay, thanks! (okay, everone tell me to read the technotes. Get it
out of your
ShanoJ system... Good boy, Marty.... :)
ShanoJ I know you do, Matt. I hope I'm not ACTUALLY as bad about reading
stuff as I
ShanoJ appear... I _DO_ read most of it, even though it probably doen't
look that way.
AFL Marty (read -all- of it :)
ShanoJ Oh, wait I've got another one---> ? :)
AFL Dyfet GA, Jonah
ShanoJ Okay, after I call UnloadSeg on a code segment, is it okay for me
to call
ShanoJ DisposeHandle on the memory it used to be in, or am I going to
dispose part
ShanoJ of the system instead of the code?
Matt DTS Don't go disposing of that stuff.
Matt DTS The Loader keeps the handle around and will try to reallocate it
if necessary later. The Loader makes
Matt DTS it purge level three, so it will be disposed as soon as any memory
request can't be immediately
Matt DTS fulfilled. Just Unload it and go about your business. <GA>
ShanoJ I was having a problem that after calling UnloadSeg, when I tried
to go to P8
ShanoJ I would get the $0201 error dialog. I checked with NiftyList, and
the code was
ShanoJ getting loaded into bank $01, leading me to believe that this was
causing the
ShanoJ problem...
Matt DTS If you're trying to stick around during P8, that will cause the
problem. Just set the "no special
Matt DTS memory" bit in your OMF and you won't get loaded in bank 1.
<GA>
AFL Dyfet For the late comers, we are discussing System 5.0.3 and changes to
system
AFL Dyfet tools. System 5.0.3 will be available on Thur. for downloading
:)....
AFA Gary J (12:00:01 A.M., to be exact :)
ShanoJ Well, I wasn't trying to stick around. I was done with that code,
so I tried
ShanoJ to unload it, but it didn't seem to work (even though I wasn't
getting an
ShanoJ error on the UnloadSeg call....)
Matt DTS Maybe it wasn't working properly! That's fixed now. <GA>
ShanoJ Okay, thanks!
AFL Dyfet Okay, Coach, GA...
Coach101 Though DisposeHandle would be a disaster, a PurgeHandle would be
legal would it not? ga
Matt DTS This is true. <GA>
ShanoJ Okay, that's nice. Thanks!
Matt DTS I will point out again, though, that you don't *need* to purge or
dispose of anything. The system
Matt DTS will kick it out as soon as it needs to. Really!
Matt DTS <GA>
Coach101 Understood, but if one wanted to get an estimate of the amount of
memory that might be available on
Coach101 a memory request, then a PurgeHandle would be needed so that the
memory would be freed, right?
Matt DTS Even then, Coach, nothing like MaxBlock or RealFreeMem will give
you a reasonable estimate.
Matt DTS The best thing to do is just try to allocate what you want and try
something smaller if you don't get
Matt DTS it. Trying to pre-flight NewHandle calls will only cause your
users grief in the end.
AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any other takers for questions about IIgs tools
and/or 5.0.3?
AFL Dyfet GA Scott...
AFL Scott When drawing text in 640 mode, does one have to set up a special
pen mask to draw text in color?....
AFL Scott All I need is Red, green, and blue text. GA
AFL Dyfet GA Dave
Matt DTS (saved by the bang)
Dave Lyons The pen mask is always irrelevant for text--the
Dave Lyons foreground and background colors are relevant, as is the text mode
(see SetForeColor, SetBackColor,
Dave Lyons SetTextMode, etc, all in QuickDraw). There is a special bit in
either
Dave Lyons Text Mode or Font Flags (I think it's Font Flags, still QD) that
makes 4 bits of color
Dave Lyons significant in 640 mode instead of just 2. ga
AFL Scott I've tried SetFore and Back as well as the FontFlags bit 1... All
I get is Sick green, pink, white and
AFL Scott Black. :(
AFL Scott It's a mess, I'll tell ya that much... It seems as thought the
only colors one can get are just the'
AFL Scott ones I've mentioned... On a white background. Seems like the
lower two bits of the color word are
AFL Scott the only bits used and that FontFlags has no effect that I can
see. :(
AFL Scott I know it can be done, though... I just don't know how to do it.
:(
Matt DTS Hold on, I'll try calling him and see where he is...
Matt DTS I can't find him. We'd better move on.
AFL Dyfet GA Mac...
Mac Hater how much faster are the new ace tools? In decompression only?
Matt DTS Two to three times, and I believe it's both ways. <GA>
AFA Gary J (Crud, I'll have to put a delay loop in my program now, so that
the startup
AFA Gary J pic will display long enough :(
Mac Hater make a bigger sound sample ;)
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet Go ahead, David...
FeinDavid Has there been any changes to the finder? Like icons that are
showing up on
FeinDavid the desktop being automatically placed where they belong when you
do a clean
FeinDavid up?
Matt DTS The Finder did not change from 5.0.2.
Matt DTS <GA>
FeinDavid Damn.
AFL Dyfet As Matt said :)...
FeinDavid Sorry, I missed that.
Coach101 What is David's problem, CleanUp works for me.
Mac Hater it should begin to change dramatically, since Andy Nicholas now
works on the
Mac Hater Finder team! ()()()()
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet ShrinkIcons :)
FeinDavid Is the system much faster? I saw a beta that was faster than
FeinDavid 5.0.2.
Matt DTS It's a little faster, but nothing to write home about.
FeinDavid Load your IIgs in under 5 seconds to desktop off of a 3.5!
AFL Dyfet I like the changes to standard file in 5.0.3...
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Coach...
Coach101 Any changes in the dispatching/handling of SIGNALs in 5.0.3?
Matt DTS No. What did you want to change?
Coach101 If BusyFlag is set, then a SIGNAL is deferred...
Coach101 But, when the BusyFlag is reset, the SIGNAL queue is not checked
to see if anything needs to be
Coach101 dispatched... Not nice... He who blocks, should queue when the
unblock takes place... ga
Matt DTS This didn't change, Coach. Sorry.
Coach101 Well, I could alwasy hope :)
Matt DTS Any other takers?
Coach101 How about the Machine bit in a CDev?
Matt DTS No changes to the Control Panel, ADU, etc. An Installer bug was
fixed, though.
AFA Gary J What is the version of P8 on 5.0.3?
Mac Hater 1.9
Matt DTS Version 1.9. You wanted it, you got it. :)
AFA Gary J Actually, 1.8 was fine for me :)
EdM14 Anyone know anything about the new sound tools?
EdM14 Oops, I mean where they are or how can we get them?
ShanoJ Which sound tools? The new MIDISynth ones?
EdM14 Yes!!!
ShanoJ Nope, don't know anything about that.... :) (check APDA,
though...)
Matt DTS MIDI Synth should be at APDA very soon now, I hear.
AFA Gary J That's good news.
EdM14 I'll believe it when I see it.........
ShanoJ Okay, I've got to ask this before everyone leaves....
ShanoJ Okay, when Twilight goes to blank the screen, it's possible that
it can't get
ShanoJ some memory it needs, and if so, it won't be able to blank the
screen. What
ShanoJ then?! I guess my question is, what would be the best thing to do
here? I was
ShanoJ thinking of flasking the menu bar if the desk manager was started,
and the
ShanoJ border if it wasn't.... Thoughts, ideas, comments, socks to tape
in mouth so
ShanoJ I'll shut up? :)
Matt DTS The best thing to do is not to blank the screen. Doing something
else weird won't help.
AFL Dyfet Why not pre-allocate the memory you need at startup/initial
running?
ShanoJ Well, I'm not going to blank the screen. I thought it might be
nice to have
ShanoJ some way of telling the user that, though....
Matt DTS You should display a message in the CDev that says you can't get
the memory. If the screen doesn't
Matt DTS blank they're most likely to go check the CDev to see if
something's wrong.
ShanoJ Hmm... Might try getting it at startup, but I'm not sure if people
would like
ShanoJ a 32k chunk permanently allocatd... :(
AFL Dyfet They're gonna lose it everytime you blank anyway...
ShanoJ Ah! Now THERE'S a good idea! Thanks, Matt!
AFL Dyfet GA Scott...
AFL Scott Why not make your blankers use a different palette than the
screen... then add what ever is on the
AFL Scott screen to so the Refresh desktop call can fix it up when the mouse
is moved?
ShanoJ Ya, but they might not like it PERMANENTLY gone.... Dunno....
A2GS Why not require a TWILIGHT user to have a minimum of 5 megs?
Mac Hater lol
ShanoJ I thought about that, Albert, but Jim and Scott didn't like it
very much... :)
A2GS Picky, aren't they? ;)
ShanoJ Well, I actually don't call RefreshDesktop. I just save the screen
and then
ShanoJ restore it myself. I found RefreshDesktop was messing a LOT of
things up... :(
AFL Dyfet If they dont wan't it gone, they could always shut down the
blanker, right?
AFL Scott Hey, this might just be the reason why Twilight causes problem on
some systems and not on others.
ShanoJ What's that, Scott?
ShanoJ Well, they'd have to disable Twilight and then reboot, as far as I
can tell...
AFL Scott Jonah, cant you add what is on the desktop to some region so the
RefreshDesktop call will redraw the
AFL Scott whole thing? I mean sorta like before HideMenu was
AFL Scott available?
ShanoJ Or I could add a shutdown button to the CDev that would make
Twilight release
ShanoJ all of it's memory, but then it would have to be gone for the rest
of the time
ShanoJ the system is active....
AFL Dyfet No, just a shutdown button that deactivated it until it is
restarted (with a
AFL Dyfet restart button) and release the 32K in the interum...
AFL Dyfet And grab a new 32K area when the user restarts...
AFL Scott I mean it's six or one half dozen or the other at this stage,
Jonah... sooner or later you're going
AFL Scott to have to trap an error in low memory situations.
ShanoJ My first version of Twilight DID call RefreshDesktop, with a
parameter of 0
ShanoJ to refresh the whole thing, but I was getting WEIRD problems,
because the
ShanoJ application wasn't expecting to have it's desktiop refreshed right
then....
ShanoJ Maybe with the modifications I've made I'll be able to use it now,
but I'd
ShanoJ still have to do something else when the DeskManager isn't
started....
AFL Scott Jonah, the point that I'm trying to make is that sooner or later
you're going to lose that memory.
A2GS I don't see what the big deal is...if the user doesn't have the
memory then
A2GS don't blank the screen...period.
AFL Scott So, you're gonna have to either kill the blanker, or "what A2GS
said"... :)
ShanoJ Ya, but my original problem was that if I don't have some nice way
to tell the
ShanoJ user that I can't blank the screen. Otherwise I'm going against
the HIG, and
ShanoJ Matt'll drop a Mac II on me :(
A2GS Ok. then cycle the border colors if the user doesn't have enough
memory, that
A2GS should get the users attention. :)
ShanoJ (so would the Mac II... :)
A2GS Matt....our Matt??? He wouldn't do that...nothing less then a Mac
Luggable :)