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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, October 16, 1990 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic: Programming Environments
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
AFL Dyfet Okay, I guess we are ready to get started...:)...What do you wish
to know about
AFL Dyfet Shanoj?
ShanoJ Anyone here have any Scheduler experience? It's really beginning
to annoy me.:(
ShanoJ Well, I need to use the Scheduler for Twilight, and it just
doesn't seem to
ShanoJ work for some people... :( I call _SchAddTask, after checking to
make sure the
ShanoJ busy flag IS set, and the task never gets called!! :(
WinkieJim Shano, BTW, Twilite disables my keyboard from working :)
ShanoJ Well, the next version of Twilight (due out for the Twilight Time
contest)
ShanoJ should fix ALL of those problems. Thing is, unless I can figure
out what's up
ShanoJ with the Scheduler, it STILL isn't going to be able to save the
screen on some
ShanoJ people's GS's.... :(
Function Does anyone have any source code for cataloging a disk under
GS/OS?
A2GS No....but I can get some to you...
Function That would be great if you could.
WinkieJim Function, all you have to do is use the GEtDirEntry function to
get the
WinkieJim files in any directory
Function Yeah, I know how and have even done it. I just need to make some
things work
WinkieJim where are you having problems?
Function I need to print all of the info to the screen using the console
driver. The
Function console driver is not the problem either.
Function Whenever I try to print stuff to the screen it comes out as
control chars
WinkieJim inverse you mean?
Function yeah
WinkieJim Well the filenames and pathnames GS/OS gives, has the high bit
clear.
Dave Lyons (Not necessarily! Standard legible characters have their high
bits clear, but high-ascii is
Dave Lyons permissible in some file systems, like AppleShare.)
WinkieJim Ok, well standard ProDOS names then.
Function I can print the names fine, just not the blocks, filenames and
mod/creation dat
WinkieJim you either want to try setting the high bit or set the output
filter to do it
WinkieJim for you.
AFA Gary J You're using GetDirEntry, right Function?
Function yes
AFA Gary J Are you converting the mod/creation date, etc. to ASCII
characters before
AFA Gary J trying to print them? (Function)
Function no. I have no idea how
AFA Gary J That's why they're inverse, etc. then.
Function I know. I just don't know what to do
WinkieJim First byte= Seconds
WinkieJim 2=Minutes
WinkieJim 3=Hour
WinkieJim 4=Year
WinkieJim 5=day
WinkieJim 6=month
WinkieJim 7=null
WinkieJim 8=weekday
WinkieJim just turn it in the appropriate number or word (month 1= January
12 Dec...)
AFA Gary J Most of the dir info stuff comes back as pure hex values. Some
things like
AFA Gary J dates/time is in a format like WinkieJim is displaying :)
AFA Gary J You can use the Integer Math toolset to do the conversion to
ASCII for you.
WinkieJim Ok big question for you all:
WinkieJim I have a NDA with a menu bar in it's info bar.
WinkieJim The menus come from resources.
WinkieJim When I resize the window or move some thing in front of it (not
when I move it
WinkieJim around the screen) it will freeze at the DrawMenu call.
WinkieJim The resource file is available (I know this due to NL 3.0 :)
WinkieJim (before when the rescource file wasn;'t avail it would crash, but
now it freezes up)
WinkieJim I've followed TEch Note #3 to the letter and still can't see where
it is
WinkieJim messing up.
Dave Lyons WJ, how do you know it's available *during* the info bar draw
call?
Dave Lyons You *do* have to do the Get/SetCurResourceApp bit in your info bar
defproc.
WinkieJim I call SetResourceApp with my user ID in the info bar defProc.
WinkieJim I also put a break in just before the DrawMenu call and went to NL
and saw
WinkieJim the resource file was available.
Dave Lyons Oh, okay. How 'bout the port? Did you do a SetPort to anything?
I believe DrawMenu/etc will
Dave Lyons toast if the current port is invalid.
WinkieJim And as I said, it will work if I don't cover the menu bar with
something else
WinkieJim or resize the window
WinkieJim Wouldn't a call to set the window's port in a info draw cause
problems?
WinkieJim (i.e. doesn't the window manager call StartInfoDraw and doesn't
that set the
WinkieJim current port corectly?
Dave Lyons (Good point...I think you're right)
WinkieJim (TechNote #3 doesn't do any port setting)
AFA JoeyS (technotes can't set ports)
WinkieJim Ha Ha Joey :)
Dave Lyons Still, check in Nifty List right before it fries & see what the
port is set to (it's probably the
Dave Lyons window manager's port, which should be okay).
WinkieJim :) Tech nbote #3 states: Do not switch to the windows port for
drawing :)
WinkieJim The things that gets me is that it doesn't freze if I just move
the window a
WinkieJim little around the screen.
Dave Lyons WJ, if you just move the window around it's just copying the
picture of your window, not calling
Dave Lyons your info bar defproc or content defproc to draw anything.
WinkieJim But will if I resize the window or move it so the info bar is
obscured by
WinkieJim something.
WinkieJim that' pretty much what I assumed, but it still leaves with me
wondering, why?
WinkieJim :/
WinkieJim I don't suppose adding menu items to the bar after creating it
would cause
WinkieJim problems?
Matt DTS (To the bar, yes. To menus in the bar, no. :)
WinkieJim nope the menu titles remain the same...I just add menu items to
the end of two
Dave Lyons Does your menu pull down okay?
WinkieJim of the menus and call calc menu size right after.
WinkieJim It pulls down, selects and works perfectly otherwise.
Dave Lyons And the newly-added items are in there, right?
WinkieJim Yup. (originaly off the menu area until I figured out to call
CalcMenuSize, but
WinkieJim they are there and work perfectly.)
Dave Lyons I dunno...send me the object & I'll see what I can do.
WinkieJim Thanks, dave. I'll get it out asap. dang thing is driveing me
batty and is
WinkieJim preventing me from going to beta test stage.
AFA Gary J Programming environments tonight...uh.. let's see. Anyone here
using the
AFA Gary J MAX/Edit editor?
AFA Gary J I actually like the Orca editor well enough, but I need the
ability to edit
AFA Gary J more than one file at a time (and it would also be nice to be
able to edit
AFA Gary J files > 64K). Would MAX/Edit be overkill for such miniscule
wants?
Matt DTS I have a problem with MAX/Edit (and it's ancestor, the SDE editor)
in that...
Matt DTS ...it uses new user IDs for each file it edits and does NOT
dispose of them when you quit the editor.
Matt DTS This is how it does the "You can switch from Merlin to APW with
your files intact" bit. The memory is
Matt DTS not purgeable, either.
AFA Gary J Hmmm. That's not good.
Matt DTS If keeping files in memory is really that important to you, this
is the way to do it, but I'd rather
Matt DTS use the memory in my current application and do a bit of disk
access when I reenter the editor instead
Matt DTS of having to explictly unload files I'm editing before quitting to
free their memory.
Matt DTS GA.
AFA Gary J I'm not really concerned about the source staying in memory. I
just want to
AFA Gary J switch between multiple files while editing. <done>
AFL Dyfet Okay, who wishes to inject a new question at this point??
ShanoJ APW 2.0? ZapLink?
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Jonah...
ShanoJ Welp, does anyone know how APW 2.0 is coming along, and whether
there are plans
ShanoJ to add the ability to set the OMF bits with ZapLink?
AFA Gary J That would be a nice addition, Jonah.
ShanoJ Hell, that would be a NECESSARY addition. With all of the 3200
color stuff I
ShanoJ do, ZapLink is basically useless to me without it. :(
AFA Gary J Must be bank aligned, etc., eh?
DVS Softwr Would my OMF program in the libraries do the trick?
ShanoJ Actually, it's the nospecial bit that's important. I need to get a
lot of $01
ShanoJ space, and I can't have my program loaded there... :(
AFA Gary J Your OMF program sets the KIND field, correct?
DVS Softwr what does he need?
ShanoJ Dunno, DVS, what does your program do (I haven't seen it, sorry...
:)
AFA Gary J That would work for you then, Jonah. That's in the KIND field.
AFA Gary J Jonah, do you really have trouble with your program trying to
grab $01 if you
AFA Gary J don't set the KIND field to not load in $01?
ShanoJ Well, I do SOMETIMES. It shouldn't be a problem much, because it
tries to grab
ShanoJ $012000, which should be pretty much reserved for QDII Shadowing,
but I thought
ShanoJ I should be safe and make sure that it can't be loaded there....
AFA Gary J Is your program an EXE file or a S16 file (when you're developing
it)?
ShanoJ S16. Has to be, or else APW uses that memory and I'm screwed. :(
AFA Gary J Yes.
AFA Gary J I was just wondering. I have some programs that use $012000, and
as long as
AFA Gary J they're S16 files, I don't have trouble with them trying to
reside in $01. But
AFA Gary J the main segment is rather large. That probably makes a
difference.
ShanoJ Matt, Dave, what's the official position on that? If you HAVE to
use the
ShanoJ $012000 space, should you set the nospecial bit in the KIND field,
or is that
ShanoJ only extra work?
WinkieJim If you don't set it does it usaly load there?
AFA Gary J I would tend to want to do it before releasing the program upon
the world, just
AFA Gary J to be safe.
WinkieJim gary...that's what I was just thinking of :)
Matt DTS If you "have" to use any specific address, you have to be prepared
that you can't get it.
Matt DTS Just because you didn't load there doesn't mean that some DA or
INIT didn't. You can try for it
Matt DTS but you have to handle it gracefully if you can't get it.
AFA Gary J What, Matt?? No SysFailMgr call? :)
WinkieJim I usually just crash into the monitor...no system errs for me :)
Dave Lyons I believe when GQUIT loads applications it asks the loader *not*
to use special memory--and then if
Dave Lyons that fails it trying loading again, with no restrictions.
ShanoJ Ya, but the $012000 space should be fairly safe, as if a DA or INIT
was loaded
ShanoJ there, P8 is screwed, too...
Matt DTS Maybe no one's tried to launch P8 on that system in a while. Be
prepared for when you can't get it.
Dave Lyons Properly-loaded DAs don't have code in special memory--but they
might allocate non-special memory,
Dave Lyons so grab $012000 before you call DeskStartUp.
ShanoJ Heh, I actually AM prepared, Matt! For once in my life I checked
for a valid
ShanoJ handle. See, I'm learning. Slowly but surely... :)
AFA Gary J I have a CDA that does NOTHING but grab $012000, just so I can
test my
AFA Gary J software :)
AFA Gary J (It's also fun to see how other software products handle the
situation too :)
ShanoJ Anyone have any thoughts on how to display 3200 color pictures
from an NDA?
ShanoJ I need to shut down all of the interrupt sources, but that's a
no-no when the
ShanoJ main program isn't the one doing it.... :(
Matt DTS Jonah: There are some tasks desk accessories should just leave
alone.
ShanoJ Does Prizm work well/reliably for anyone here?
AFL Dyfet (I don't use Prizm myself..prefer the shell)
AFA Gary J (same here)
ShanoJ Ya, me too. That's why. :(
AFL Scott Prizm is very unreliable, IMHO. I have it crash or trash the
target volume
AFL Scott regularly.
AFL Dyfet I never found problems with Prizm simply because I never really
used it :)
AFA Gary J (trash the target volume? ugh. That's serious)
AFL Dyfet I had to re-construct my hd recently, Scott...What a pain :(...
AFL Scott (that's why I don't use it! :))
ShanoJ Ya, I had it erase source files, refuse to compile stuff, etc,
etc, etc.
ShanoJ Too bad, too, it COULD be really nice. :(
Nuzz is it too late for a question?
AFL Dyfet No Nuzz...ga...
Nuzz I'd like to know how GSOS formats the Text in the ClipBoard
window
Dave Lyons Well, GS/OS doesn't have anything to do with the clipboard.
Dave Lyons Are you asking about the Finder's "Show Clipboard" window?
Nuzz Yes, finder, sorry
Dave Lyons I believe it just calls LETextBox2 with all the text, and with a
rectangle the width of
Dave Lyons the Clipboard window. LETextBox2 is doing the word wrapping.
Nuzz is Scrap type 64 a line edit scrap?
Dave Lyons Scrap type $0064 is Text Edit style information--goes along with a
Text scrap.
Nuzz If there is style info, does the finder use this when showing
clipboard?
Dave Lyons Nope, the Finder only uses the Text and Picture scraps ($0000 and
$0001).
Nuzz Dave, just so I have it straight, you're saying that Finder will
word wrap to
Nuzz the size of the window (Horz), irregeardless of how the text was
"cut"
Nuzz <bad spelling>
Dave Lyons Yes, I think that's what it does. Carriage returns still force
new lines, but so does wrapping.
Nuzz Hmm, I've cut some TextEdit stuff and the finder seems to respect
the original
Nuzz word wrap.
Nuzz <without a CR>
WinkieJim it might just be luck...
WinkieJim (i.e. both windows the same width)
Nuzz Nope, the TE lines are much narrower than the Clip window
Dave Lyons Are there any carriage returns in the text you cut?
Nuzz Not on all lines
Nuzz I looked at the lines in question and there are no CR's at the
wrap point
Nuzz yet the clip window is just as the TE
Dave Lyons Looked at the text in Text Edit, or the $0000 Scrap on the
clipboard?
Nuzz The $0 Scrap type
Nuzz I looked at it with NL
Dave Lyons That's strange. I'm sure it's not using the $64 scrap...the
Finder doesn't even start up TE.
Nuzz I am trying to duplicate this.
Nuzz Right now, MY Clipview window only wraps at CR's. Cuts off words
that are wider
Nuzz than the window
Dave Lyons I just tried it (Copy from a Text Edit control) and it shows up
with no wrapping in the Finder.
Dave Lyons (Oops, I take back the part about the Finder using the *current*
width of the Clipboard window--
Dave Lyons it seems to have a hard-coded width.)
Nuzz I'll try it again, and get back to you on it Dave. Thanks for the
help
WinkieJim SPeaking of LETExtBox...anyone know how to find out how high in
pixels the text
WinkieJim in a LETextBox2 is?
Dave Lyons WJ, I don't know of a way (that would be too easy).
WinkieJim :/
Dave Lyons If you have a *lot* of text, I don't recommend using LETextBox/2
anyway--they aren't very fast.
WinkieJim I hate to have to have a super long vertical data area with only
2 lines of
WinkieJim text :)
Dave Lyons You don't *have* to, WJ...look at the Macintosh Finder's
solution--the scroll bars are never active!
Dave Lyons (Good solution, eh?)
WinkieJim I know I don't have to and don't want to, but if I can't find the
length of
WinkieJim a LETextBox2..I have no choice
WinkieJim because the information displayed can be almost anylength (well up
to $FFFF)
WinkieJim and with word wrapping it could end up anywhere in hight.
Dave Lyons I don't think the height can exceed $3fff, or QD would crash.
WinkieJim ($FFFF in size of the text data)
Dave Lyons (By the way, don't call LETextBox with length=0. It'll toast on
you.)
WinkieJim I'll put a check in for that one...