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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, September 25, 1990 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic: Alternate Operating Systems
Tech OS Operating System - Red Team Software
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
QRJ Flash Got an ORCA Pascal question if anyone is able
AFL Dyfet Sure, Flash, GA...
QRJ Flash Thanks Dyfet... how can I get the error code result of a GSOS
call?
Dave Lyons What language, Flash?
QRJ Flash ORCA Pascal
AFL Dyfet Okay, Flash currently has the floor for his ORCA Pascal
question...we will
AFL Dyfet begin tonight's event after FLash...
QRJ Flash I am using ORCA Pascal to read in a screen image and chomp pieces
of it.
QRJ Flash I am crashing in the ReadGS call, and suspect I am getting an
error from the
QRJ Flash OpenGS call.
QRJ Flash How can I check for errors after each call?? ToolError doesn't
catch it.
AFL Scott Are you using StdFile to get the pathname?
QRJ Flash no...I am hardcoding the pathname in the file.
QRJ Flash I'm building graphics resources.
QRJ Flash I mean hardcoding it in the program. Sorry.
AFL Scott Is it a GS/OS string or a pascal string?
QRJ Flash I am attempting to convert it to a GSOSInstring
QRJ Flash from a pascal string
QRJ Flash but again... I get no feedback other than a GLORIOUS monitor
crash.
AFL Scott Does the file open properly?
QRJ Flash I don't know! The program continues after the open, but crashes in
the Read
QRJ Flash call.
AFL Scott I don't understand...How do you know it's in the Read call?
QRJ Flash I copy the refnum from the open param block to the read param
block
QRJ Flash Scott, because I print a string between the two calls that says "I
made it..."
Dave Lyons Try printing the reference number--if it's 0, the Open failed.
QRJ Flash OK, thanks Dave.
Dave Lyons (Mmm...you may have to stuff a 0 in the record *before* the open
for that to be true, actually.)
Dave Lyons A good refnum is definitely nonzero.
QRJ Flash I take it there is no system function or peek to pick up GSOS
error codes?
Dave Lyons (I *thought* ToolError worked for ORCA/Pascal OS errors,
actually--but I don't use that env.)
Dave Lyons The system simply returns GS/OS errors in the accumulator--it's up
to your languague
Dave Lyons environment to give you a way at that result.
AFL Scott I did, too Dave... try SystemError and see what happens.
QRJ Flash OK. Well, thanks for listening! I shall go bang my head against it
some more :)
QRJ Flash Take care!
AFA Parik you can email mikew50 to get info, btw
QRJ Flash I shall EMail MikeW if I don't get anywhere tonight.
Dave Lyons Scott, what happens? I don't have ORCA/P handy.
AFL Scott I don't know...not my program.. one of the errors it can return is
File not open, though.
AFL Dyfet Good evening and welcome to the Apple II Development
Forum....Tonight we will
AFL Dyfet be discussing alternative operating systems for the Apple II.
What products
AFL Dyfet are there? Do they work? how compatible are they? What
environments would
AFL Dyfet one want to see on the II? These and other questions will be
covered. We will
AFL Dyfet be using protocol starting now. This means that if you wish to
ask a question,
AFL Dyfet you must enter a '?' on a line by itself, and if you wish to make
a comment on
AFL Dyfet the current question, you must enter a '!' on a line by itself.
You will
AFL Dyfet each be called to speak in turn....
AFL Dyfet We do have several guests (Red Team) who are responsible for one
of these
AFL Dyfet alternative (non-Apple supplied) operating environments with us
tonight
AFL Dyfet (Tech OS). I will start by giving the floor over to Red Team so
that he may
AFL Dyfet introduce himself and us to Tech OS...Red Team (or Rep Rep 2), you
now have
AFL Dyfet the floor...
Red Team Okay... to begin the discussion about Tech OS, Read Rep 2 and I
will describe
Red Team the advantages and disadvantages of using our OS.
Red Team Through using Tech OS, you will be using a smaller, faster, and
easiler to
Red Team use operating system.
Red Team All of the features are covered in one manual, well documented
with examples.
Red Team Red Team, Inc is offering this OS at a low price to appeal to
programmers
Red Team of all types of business.
Red Team To start off, let me describe the compiler included with Tech
OS.
Red Team Before that, let me introduce myself...
Red Team My name is Clinton D. Wong, and I am the main programmer of
TechOS,
Red Rep 2 my name is Ginger D. Wong, and I will be acting as a consultant
Red Rep 2 to this development chat on OS's
Red Team Okay, on to the compiler.
Red Team The compiler used with TechOS has most all the features of today's
compiler.
Red Team Any assembler programmer who knows merlin or 65816 will be at home
with
Red Team the Tech OS compiler. Most all commands are similar to that used
with Merlin,
Red Team including Ram locations (example:strout), toolbox calls (like
_FFSoundStart)
Red Team and of course, the TechOS command set (like: _ReadTechOSvol).
Red Team The commands are included within the manual, as well as in
disk-form, for
Red Team easy recall when the manual isn't handy.
Red Team As a bonus, this compiler also uses external files to emulate
other compilers.
Red Team For instance, if you wanted to port your basic, pascal, or C code
into Tech OS
Red Team form, all you have to do is add this to your code:
Red Team Include: Basic, Pascal, C
Red Team And when you want to switch from one language to another, you
would then enter
Red Team "Mode: Basic" or "Mode: Pascal".
Red Team Global variables from each language can be used within the other
languages
Red Team that you use.
Red Team Also, you don't sacrifice compatability. If you were programming
in basic,
Red Team you could enter "pushstack $0000" and then another call like
"_FFSoundStart."
Red Team Are there any questions so far?
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Goalie...
Goalie5 If I make a program under Tech OS, can I launch it from the
finder? (Missed the
Goalie5 first couple of minutes) :)
Red Team From GS/OS you would have problems... more about compatability
later tonight.
Goalie5 is it a completely seperate operating system?
Red Team Yes, Tech OS is completely seperate from other OS's. However, to
shed some
Red Team light on your question, programs created under ProDOS 8 can easily
be converted
Red Team to TechOS form.
Goalie5 How much must we pay for this new OS?
Goalie5 :)
Red Team At at introductory price, the Tech OS boot code, shell, and
compiler will be
Red Team offered at a mere $35, without extra shipping and handling.
Red Team This price is temporary, so if you're interested, buy sooner and
it will be
Red Team cheaper.
Goalie5 Where can we get it from?
Red Team Ordering information can be reached at: Clinton D. Wong, PO Box
433, Gurnee
Red Team IL, 60031. You could leave e-mail here in America Online at Red
Team,
Red Team find us on CompuServe at 72047,1005. Or you could mail us on
internet at
Red Team clint@chinet.chi.il.us or
Red Rep 2 arn@mentor.cc.purdue.edu for Ginger Wong
Red Rep 2 hold on, sorry, I meant arn@sage.cc.purdue.edu for Ginger Wong
AFL Dyfet Sounds like I could port some Command.COM shell utilities :)...Go
ahead Parik.
Goalie5 Can you install GS>OS and tech OS on same HD?
AFA Parik (its ffstartsound :) I don't understand the diff. compilers - if I
have some
AFA Parik (ga?)
Red Team Okay..
Red Team Let me give you an example...
Red Team If you had a pascal program like the following:
Red Team Program so.and.so...;
Red Team var temp1:integer;
Red Team begin;
Red Team end.
Red Team while later on in the same source code, you could write a program
like this:
Red Team in basic, 10 PRINT temp1.
Red Team Basically what would happen is that the value at temp1 will print
out.
Red Team You can program more than one language, and have all of the
variables linked
Red Team together with another language,
Red Team and execure them all at the same time.
AFL Dyfet So it is a multi-lingual compiler???
AFA Parik ok, it doesn't actually compile each language type. ga
Red Team Yes, it is a multi-lingual compiler.
AFA Parik whoah, it does pascal, c, basic,assembly? wow. done
Red Team It converts the source code into machine language and any labels
or variables
Red Team can be accessed from any language.
AFL Dyfet Are there any runtime libraries, such as for common C functions?
Red Rep 2 which C are you referring to AFL?
Red Rep 2 just regular C? or Turbo-C?
AFL Dyfet As in ANSI or K&R library function for printf, etc...
AFL Dyfet In other words, is there a C lib behind the C language
compiler...
Red Rep 2 Ok....
Red Rep 2 you mean the C where you have #include's?
Red Team Yes, there is a C library that you can include.
AFL Dyfet I really mean the functions you link from the standard C library,
but yes...
Red Rep 2 oh, the functions, like math.h and so on
AFL Dyfet Yes...
AFL Dyfet Yes...
Red Team Yes, C librarys are supported for those functions.
AFL Dyfet Okay...Go ahead Dave Lyons...enough on C for now :)...
Dave Lyons 2 questions: (1) Can your compiled programs read/write ProDOS
disks? (2) Does a Tech OS program
Dave Lyons have access to any GS Toolbox functions that
Dave Lyons aren't in ROM, or to any patches Apple releases to the parts that
are in ROM?
Red Team To answer the first question, yes, TechOS can read and write to
ProDOS disks,
Red Team hard drives, etc. To answer Goalie's question in it, TechOS can
exist on
Red Team your current PrDOS 8 volumes without disturbing the data.
Red Team Both of them share the bit space bitmap and there aren't any
problems
Red Team with using both.
Dave Lyons So ProDOS *isn't* your native file system?
Red Team No, ProDOS isn't the native language. However, since Tech OS and
ProDOS 8
Red Team don't use the same memory, you could have ProDOS 8 and TechOS
loaded and
Red Team se both within the same program. This does not apply to Zaplink
S16 files,
Red Team another disadvantage.
Dave Lyons One more thing (maybe I missed this): Is TechOS only for the GS,
or for other Apple IIs too?
Red Team TechOS was designed to be the ProDOS 8 of the IIgs... if you
look
Red Team at the IIe, you would see that ProDOS 8 is fine... no extras to
load and
Red Team worry about. When Apple Computer, Inc. had the IIgs, they jumped
to the
Red Team GS/OS. As some have complained, it is not extremely fast, though
it is
Red Team easy to use.
Red Team Basically, Tech OS is your ProDOS 8 for the IIgs, smaller, faster,
easier to
Red Team use, with IIgs capability.
Dave Lyons Okay, thanks. Done.
AFL Dyfet Okay, A2, you have the floor now...
A2GS I had a problem last week which produced several solutions...I've
come up with
A2GS what I think is the best solution so far and I just want to make
sure it
A2GS doesn't have any problems....the original question was, how to get
more then
A2GS 1 bank of memory and make sure it was bank aligned...
Red Team To get 1 bank of memory.... from where? The memory manager?
A2GS The solution.... Request the # of banks of memory + 1....con'd
A2GS yes
A2GS then check if the memory is already bank aligned...is so then
deallocate the
A2GS handle and only request the # of banks you actually need (so as
not to waste
A2GS any memory)...if not then add 1 to the bank the mem. manager
started
A2GS allocating memory from...then deallocate all the memory you just
requested and
A2GS request the # of banks you actually need, specifying the address
of where the
A2GS memory should start...MM bank+1 with a low word address of 0000.
A2GS done
AFL Dyfet We are not really fielding memory manager questions tonight A2,
however, if we
AFL Dyfet have time after this conf....GA Parik...You have the floor
now...
A2GS sorry...I didn't realize this was the wrong day for MM Q's.
AFA Parik ok, i'm totally lost on TechOS. It sounds like a super-program
for $35??
AFA Parik Its _NOT_ a C/Basic/Pascal compiler, is it? ie, it won't take a
orca/c source
AFA Parik code file, compile it, and turn it into a program! likewise for
TML Pascal II
Red Team As I've mentioned before, it is only a intro price to get
programming support
Red Team by developers. As more support is given by programmers, the price
will
Red Team go up as more people start using it. The low price is insanely
low, and
Red Team almost killing the budget, but it is a great way to get people to
try it out...
Red Team The price shouldn't descourage anyone from purchasing it, so Red
Team made
Red Team sure that the price was low enough.
AFA Parik so will it make "main() { printf("hello,world.\n")"; } " a
run-able file?
Red Team Yes, the compiler will turn it into a runnable file... all the
global variables
Red Team that you use will also be accessable to any other language code
that you
Red Team use within the same program.
AFA Parik I didn't ask if variables are global...will it compile C code? is
it a C
AFA Parik compiler?
Red Team Yes, it is a C compiler, and also doubles as Pascal, BASIC, and
65816.
Red Team More questions?
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Marty...
AFL Marty May I have the address again?
Red Team Sure: USMail: Clinton D. Wong, PO Box 433, Gurnee, IL, 60031.
AFL Marty (followup too)
Red Team CIS: 72047,1005, America Online: Red Team, network:
clint@chinet.chi.il.us
Red Rep 2 Internet: arn@sage.cc.purdue.edu
AFL Marty Do you have any programs or demos written using TechOS and, if so,
are
AFL Marty they available online?
Red Team As of now, there are no public demos available... please watch for
them in
Red Team the following weeks.
AFL Marty Thanks. Done.
AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any other questions out there for tonights topic
or TechOS?
Red Team Feel free to give Red Team a ring for more questions... a topic
we've run
Red Team out of time is about the shell and other utilities, but more info
will be
Red Team available through mail/net-mail.
Red Rep 2 The address and e-mail addresses will be posted
Red Rep 2 for further reference
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Paul...
PaulH54 Thank you. I recall a teaser earlier about minix. Is that to be
ported
PaulH54 to the IIgs platform anytime soon?
AFL Dyfet I have not myself heard anything about it, but a lot of people
talk about doing
AFL Dyfet it :)
PaulH54 thanks
PaulH54 done
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Scott...
AFL Scott Has anyone experienced problems with GS/OS on hard disk
partitions....
AFL Scott when they are nearing full? I've got two drives that are slowly
eating themselves.
AFL Scott BTW, the problems only show up after I have started
AFL Scott cleaning them up by deleting files.
AFL Scott GA, Paul.
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Paul...
PaulH54 Thank you. I recall problems with the CMS scsi cards and drives
eating
PaulH54 themselves when they got full. I've not had that problem with
Apple's
PaulH54 cards.
PaulH54 done
AFL Scott I've got DMA SCSI from Apple... And the other Apple SCSI board...
problem shows up on both
AFL Scott controllers... I'm running memory diags, now, to see
AFL Scott if the problem is in expansion ram.
AFL Scott Dave, has anyone reported anything like this to Apple that wasn't
hardware?
AFL Scott Better yet, have you heard of anyone reporting? :)
Dave Lyons I don't remember anything like that...
AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any other Q's for tonight??
AFL Scott Thanks!:)
PaulH54 Thanks y'all.
AFA Gary J Interesting conference.