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AppleLink APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG June 20, 1989 10:00 p.m. eastern time Topic: Open Discussion Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet) AFL Dyfet Well, as you all may know, tonight is 'open topic' night. This means that, AFL Dyfet instead of me entertaining you, you get to entertain me :) AFA Gary J You mean it hasn't been entertaining so far? AFA Gary J :) GET1 Serious question: All that extraneous toolbox pushing and pulling aside. I'm GET1 trying to rewrite an old hurricane tracking program that I wrote for the //e. AFL Dyfet Welcome aboard, Dave. Continue Get1. GET1 My problem is how do I "Plot" my little hurricane shapes on my map without l GET1 loosing my background if I "delete" them later? GET1 Should I "plot" them as special windows or objects? AE PhilM Use regions. AFL Dyfet Anyone else wish to comment on this? AE PhilM You could probably set up a new graf port and draw you're map into it. AFL Dyfet GA Dave. AE PhilM done Dave Lyons We're talking about GS & QuickDraw II here, right? If you set GET1 Yes Dave Lyons the PenMode to XOR, you can just draw the shape again in the Dave Lyons same place to get rid of it. Missed the first part of the Dave Lyons discussion, so I dunno if I'm babbling. AFL Dyfet Very similar to XDRAWing in Applesoft. Get1 was trying to convert an old IIe GET1 Sounds good, sort of like the old applesoft XDRAW command. But will it work? AFL Dyfet hurricane plotting program, Dave. Dave Lyons What format are the shapes in, or is that still up in the air? AFL Dyfet It should work mechanically the same. Redraw the same object in the same place AFL Dyfet and it will undraw it. AE PhilM Yes, but what format are the object in, Icons, Pictures, or just line drawing? GET1 I have them created as icons. Like the Apple Icon in HP. AE PhilM I don't think you can use XOR for Icons...is that right Dave? Dave Lyons DrawIcon does *not* use the PenPattern, so there's no XOR available there. Right. AFL Dyfet GA Nuzz. Nuzz You could copy the Icon into a rectangle and work from there AFL Scott (Or a region :)) Nuzz Right GA AFL Dyfet It seems we have come full circle :) GET1 Sounds good. At this point it would be easy to convert from Icon to Regeon. GET1 It wouldn's affect the code I have written so far. Dave Lyons (*Regions* are just collections of points--there will be no color available there.) AE PhilM Really, how do you convert an Icon into a region? AE PhilM Dave is right, a region is just a boundry to draw into...a clip area. GET1 No problem. All I need really is a HURRICANE shape (All B&W) :). Dave Lyons It *isn't* easy to convert an icon into a region, as far as I know. 5.0 may provide Dave Lyons a way--I haven't paid enough attention to it...does CalcMask do that? Pirate14 Does anyone have any good code to access the control panel from TMl Pascal? AFA Gary J But what if he NEEDED color....what option would he have then? GET1 I meant the Idea. I havent coded my Icon yet. This is still "developmental" Dave Lyons Using PPToPort with pixel maps should be fine; you can even DrawIcon into an Dave Lyons offscreen pixel map, & just keep things stored as icons on disk. GET1 Pirate14---NO---Try ORCA Pascal. GET1 Thanks everyone. You have given me some good Ideas to work with. AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe the next question is from Windrider. GA Windrider. Windrider5 I am trying to Link a fairly large C program that I have compile, but I get Windrider5 the error message Outpur Buffer Overflow Any suggestion on what I might do? AFL Dyfet GA Phil. AE PhilM I wrote the APW linker...I have a version that might work for you...how much AE PhilM memory do you have in you're computer? Windrider5 1.25 Megabytes AE PhilM You will need to get more memory...the version I have will not solve you're AE PhilM problems. AE PhilM Sorry. done AFL Dyfet GA Dave. Dave Lyons You *are* getting the message during the link, right? Windrider5 Yes AE PhilM Yes, that message only appears in the linker. The assembler will give a AE PhilM generic out of memory error. Dave Lyons I don't have any more info...sorry. AE PhilM Windrider, if you get more memory in you're machine the linker will take AE PhilM advantage of it...also Apple has redone thier C libraries and if you get AE PhilM the new version they may be a little smarter and the object code may be AE PhilM smaller. AFL Dyfet GA Coach. Coach101 I got that message from time to time before I went up to 2.25 meg. Coach101 One trick that seemed to help was to do a full system shutdown and then Coach101 go directly to APW and do the link immediately. That seemed to get me AE PhilM Yes, and don't mark the assembler as restartable...it is not purged when Coach101 out of the problem. A pain, so I added another meg. GA AE PhilM the linker asks for symbol table and output file space. AFL Dyfet Ah. Okay, I believe the next question is from Pirate. GA Pirate. Pirate14 Is there a toolbox routine to access the Control pannel on the IIGS? AFL Dyfet GA Phil. AE PhilM There is a Control Panel vector in the $E1 space...i think it is called AE PhilM toCtlPannel. AE PhilM done Pirate14 Which tool set is that in? AE PhilM It's not in any toolset...it is a vector in bank $E1 AFL Dyfet It's not a tool. You would do a jsl to it, I would guess. GA Dave. Dave Lyons Pirate, that vector is not in any toolset. What is it exactly that you want to do? Just Pirate14 Ok. Also, A friend of mine is trying to turn off the interupts and Dave Lyons make the machine behave as if the user hit Apple-Ctrl-Esc? Pirate14 turn on the serial buffer on his IIC. How do you do that? Dave Lyons I'm pretty sure you *can't* just JSL to that vector--if you can, I don't think Pirate14 I want to be able to change settings from within the program. Dave Lyons it's guaranteed. AE PhilM Looks like we're not talking about the same thing. Dave Lyons The IIc??? The IIc doesn't have a control panel, and any Dave Lyons program you write in TML Pascal will not run on a IIc. Pirate14 I mean interrups on the IIC. AFL Dyfet I didn't think it was a safe vector, either...I think he had two questions AFL Dyfet there. Pirate14 And the control pannel on the IIGS. Pirate14 Sorry. Coach101 Pirate's \interrupt question is from a friend of his with a II-c Pirate14 Exactly. AFL Dyfet GA Phil. AE PhilM You have to access the battery backed up RAM to change control pannel settings AE PhilM Be careful tho... AE PhilM done Dave Lyons Okay, I have an answer to the first one! Catching up here... Dave Lyons You can use WriteBParam to write a byte into the battery-backed configuration Pirate14 Where is that? Dave Lyons RAM. See the table in the Miscellaneous Tools chapter of Toobox Ref, volume 1. Then AFA Gary J Misc. Toolset Dave Lyons you can use the ToBRAMSetup vector to make those settings take effect. You'll Dave Lyons need a tad of assembly code to do this. If you go post your Dave Lyons question in the TML Pascal section of Pascal in Let's Discuss, I'll Dave Lyons concoct some code & post it there. AFL Dyfet GA Get1. GET1 That control panel vector is $E10090 (pg273 firmware ref.) Pirate14 Thanks. GET1 done Dave Lyons You need to call that vector in SEP #$30 mode, or it will crash. ga AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe the next question is from Nuzz. GA Nuzz. Pirate14 Thanks Guys. Nuzz Can anyone give me some pointers on displaying a PrintshopGS pic to a bitmap. JimLaz ! AFL Dyfet GA Jim. JimLaz You might want to use Roger Wagner's Graphics exchange to change it into a JimLaz format that you know more about. JimLaz Such as a $C0 screen shot image file. JimLaz OR is that $C1 Nuzz Well, that wouldn't do. I want to do the convert myself AFL Scott C1 AFA Gary J But I bet you want your program to do it on the fly for you, right? AE PhilM $C1 Nuzz Right again Gary JimLaz Well, then you have to get the file format... AFL Dyfet Hmm...I'm not sure where or if they have their file format published... AFL Dyfet GA Gary. JimLaz Well, RW must have it... JimLaz All done... GA AFA Gary J It's not hard to figure out. I had it figured out once... and have it somewher AFA Gary J around here. It is almost the same as the older PrintShop (DOS 3.3 version) Nuzz I've figured that there are 3 data structures 572 bytes each, but thats iall AFL Scott ! AFA Gary J except the image is repeated within the file structure 3 times---one for each AFA Gary J of the three colors. AFL Scott -! AFA Gary J Right. AFL Dyfet Hmm...that seems to answer most of the question. AFA Gary J If I can find what info I had on it, I'll send it to you. JimLaz You would have to set up the pallete to represent the different color when they AFA Gary J GA JimLaz blend together. Nuzz Ok, I'll look for it Gary. Done AFL Dyfet Okay, did we have any other questions for tonight? AFL Dyfet GA Phil. AE PhilM Who's going to the A2 Central conference? Just thought I'd liven things up a AE PhilM bit. AFL Dyfet A2 Central is comming up already? AE PhilM Yep, in July. AFL Dyfet Yeah. My busy season, unfortunately, it seems... AFA Gary J Anyone else get the July issue yet? :) JSchober Yup. :) AFA Gary J They kind of jumped the gun there... :) AFL Dyfet Oh? JSchober Yeah.. they made the June 20 annoucement on June 20... neat. ;) AFC Mark The first time in history that the Post Office gave A2-Central 24 hour service AFA Gary J I got my issue yesterday....(June 19) and the second paragraph of the JSchober LOL AFC Mark as opposed to their normal 6 day wait... (I got mine on Friday!!!) AFA Gary J article said that "AppleWorks 3.0 was announced on June 20" AE PhilM :) GET1 Appleworks 3.0????????? AFC Mark And who says Uncle-DOS doesn't have a crystal ball!!! B-) AFA Gary J Yep. JSchober Yup. AFA Gary J With all the Beagle add-on features built in. JSchober Does it have UltraMacros built-in?? They said that Randy Brandt worked on it, JSchober but didn't comment on any actual macro capability... GET1 $$$$$ BEAGLE BROS $$$$$$ AFL Dyfet I saw that comming when they tried to buy PinPoint. AFA Gary J No, I don't think that's in there, Joe. GET1 How about AppleWorks GS 2.0? AFA Gary J The interesting thing is the price for A2-Central subscribers.... $99. AFA Gary J That's an out-right purchase price, not an upgrade price. GET1 Is that for an Upgrade or for new purchasers? AFL Dyfet Remarkable. AFA Gary J Upgrade price is $79 (believe it or not!) :) AE PhilM Yes, they said if you don't have you original disks...they can still fill the AFL Dyfet Strange sense of proportion there, too :) AE PhilM order...can you believe that!! AFA Gary J I agree, Dyfet :) GET1 i agree also :) AFL Dyfet Hmm...this doesn't sound like the Claris I used to know :) GET1 It doesn't sound Like APPLE you mean!!!!! JSchober (Well, it's NOT Apple...) AFL Marty I take it you're talking about AppleWorks 3.0? JSchober Right. :) AFA Gary J The program was worked on by Alan Bird, Randy Brandt, and Rob Renstrom AFL Marty The upgrade price seems reasonable to me. AFA Gary J The NEW price seems reasonable to ME! :) AFA Gary J (As long as you are an A2-Central subscriber) AFL Marty :) AFC Mark And, remember, the key word here is SUBSCRIBER... AFC Mark (so much for my plug for the day!!! B-) AFL Marty <-- a subscriber JSchober <-- a subscriber to that wonderful letter, too... :) AFL Marty I have seen a beta version of AW 3.0. It's everything Tom W says it is. Coach101 Is Claris selling at that price or is A2-Central buying and reselling Coach101 to subscribers at the low prices? AFA Gary J I don't know, Coach. They must have some connection there. AFL Dyfet Hmm. I need to invoice Claris... AFA Gary J The form is mailed to Claris. AFA Gary J (The order form is included with the July issue) AFA Gary J Oh... ORCA/C is shipping now. AFL Dyfet Yes it is Gary. AFA Gary J A friend of mine just received it. AFA Gary J (I think he got it last Friday) Coach101 Are the structure definitions for the toolbox and GS/OS the same AFL Dyfet Anything else out this month worth noting? Coach101 between ORCA-C and APW-C? AFA Gary J I don't know...I haven't seen it first hand. I'm sure we can find out. AFA Gary J You mean like 5.0, Dyfet??? :) Coach101 I will post a question in the ORCA-C folder under "C" in ADV AE PhilM Does anyone use the MAC/GS development system? AFL Dyfet Not I. Coach101 Nope AFA Gary J Nor I. AFA Gary J Dave Lyons? AFL Dyfet I believe they forced Dave (Lyons) to, though. AFC Mark I have... but my regular Mac doesn't have enough horsepower... AE PhilM I started to...got a MAC IICX...i'm really impressed. I really like MPW. Coach101 Probably put his II-GS keyboard on it for sentimental reasons though AFA Gary J How much horsepower does it take, Mark? (I have an SE) AE PhilM Very, very nice system. AE PhilM Yep, I tried it on an SE without Multifinder...too slow. But it's pretty nice AFC Mark 2 Meg minimum memory (My Mac+ has only 1 meg) AE PhilM in a MAC IIcx. AFA Gary J My SE only has 1 meg as well. AFA Gary J (All my money goes into my IIGS :) AFC Mark <-- Getting a IIcx so I can really work with it! AE PhilM Now I've just got to retrain myself into using files to split up my source Dave Lyons Whoops! I'm here...just behind. Yes, I've used some MPW IIgs stuff. AE PhilM logically...now I have to use MAKE..no more partial assemblies. AFA Gary J (We thought you had, Dave. We figured you were off eating M&M's :) Coach101 Phil, is it nice enough to ease the higher cost of MPW vs APW? AE PhilM Yes, as long as AE pays for it :)) Really though...MPW is a very nice system. Dave Lyons I already ate all the M&Ms in this vicinity, unfortunately.... Coach101 Phil, can the output from MPW be delivered to a II-GS via AppleShare Coach101 or must I use the diskette transport technique? AE PhilM Yes, but I havent tried it. I use duplicate IIGS. Dave Lyons Coach, yes--you can use either AppleShare or Apple File Exchange to move data between Dave Lyons GS and Mac.