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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
February 14, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern time
Topic: Apple II Assembly Language
Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim)
AFL Jim Do you all want protocol or can you guys stay on the subject? :)
Chaos 89 hi Dan
AFA Parik no protocol.
Dan Burton Hi there
DennisDoms Yes :)
AFC DaveP sounds like a threat
JSchober NO! protocol... :)
AFL Marty You know us, Jim :)
AFA Parik Just say no...
AFL Jim Is it Dan or Doug?
AFA Gary J Yes to protocol, Dennis?
Dave Lyons I vote no protocol, I think.
Republicn no protocal
AFA Gary J I think?? :)
Dan Burton Its Dan Doug will be here later I think
AFL Marty You do?
AFA Parik therefore he assembles...
AFL Marty What's the occasion? :)
Dave Lyons (Was this really a vote, or have you already decided?) (Gary, I
reserve the
Dave Lyons right to be sorry for my vote later.)
JSchober hehehe
AFA Gary J :)
AFC DaveP (I'm glad all this is going on...it'll be the only part I
understand)
AFA Gary J I like that, Dave.
AFL Jim Let's skip the protocol then. Tonight's scheduled topic is
Assembly Language
AFL Jim Anyone want to start off with a question?
AFC DaveP this isn't PC??
AFL Marty hahahahahaha
Republicn How can I do a Bload from Prodos 8? Can it be done easily?
JSchober In assembly, Republican? MLI READ calls... (OPEN, READ, CLOSE
...)
AFL Jim The same way you did under DOS 3.3, except some parts of memory
are protected.
Guy Rice Huh? The same way as DOS 3.3? I don't think so...
AFA Parik Does anyone know what the various annunciators do on the GS?
AFA Gary J I think he means in assembly.
Republicn It isn't any easier in Prodos then it is in DOS 3.3?
JSchober They annunciate.
AFA Parik enunciate...
AFL Jim From BASIC that is. You don't BLOAD from assembly...
Guy Rice It's a LOT easier in ProDOS...
JSchober Well, the MLI is far easier than the File Manager is, but the
basic idea is the
Dave Lyons Are you using BASIC.SYSTEM, Republicn?
JSchober same...
JSchober (GMTA Guy)
Republicn Dave, yes.
Dave Lyons And you want your BASIC program to do a BLOAD, then?
Matt DTS Back (did I miss anything?)
Republicn No, I want to do a Bload from assembly.
Mac III sounds like you missed a lot
AFA Parik We gossiped about you.
JSchober Republican... then we were right in the first place. You execute
an MLI OPEN
JSchober call, then READ, then CLOSE. Just gotta make sure that you're not
loading on
JSchober top of memory reserved by ProDOS. Do you have a book that
indicates the MLI
Republicn I need the Bload from assmebly because the program is for a //e
and is going to
JSchober command codes/parameters/etc? (ie., Beneath Apple ProDOS, Apple
ProDOS for
Republicn use the Auxiliary memory to store data, and I am told that once
you put stuff
JSchober Programmers, etc...)
Republicn in auxiliary that BASIC is written over, so the Bload must be from
assembly.
Dave Lyons It's true that you can load stuff only into the main 64K using
ProDOS; you'll
Republicn No, I don't. All the books I have are //gs assembly and this
program is on a
Republicn //e.
Dave Lyons have to have an assembly language routine to copy the data to
auxiliary memroy,
Dave Lyons but you are free to BLOAD it from BASIC if you want
(?CHR$(4);"BLOAD xxxxx" and
Dave Lyons then CALL a machine language routine to copy the data to aux
mem).
Republicn To move it to Auxiliary, I was going to use the AUXMOVE routine
and I was told
JSchober Oh. Well, you'll really want to get some book on Advanced
ProDOS...
Republicn that that routine wrote over BASIC.
Republicn I know I will.
Dave Lyons AUXMOVE does not write over BASIC; I don't know whether you'll be
able to CALL
Republicn So I could Bload data from Basic, move it to Auxiliary with an
assembly routine
Dave Lyons it directly without trouble or not.
Republicn and then have the BASIC program then Bload more data ??
Dave Lyons Yup, sounds like a good plan. You can even use the ,B and ,L
parameters on
Republicn That was what I was going to do, but if AUXMOVE wrote over BASIC
it wouldn't
Republicn have worked. Glad I don't have to worry about that. Thanks a lot
for the help
Dave Lyons the BLOAD to load one piece of a file at a time, if it's too big
to load all
Dave Lyons at once (into your available main memory space).
DaviesDoug Hi all
Republicn Each file isn't that big, it's just that there are a lot of
them.
AFL Jim Hi Doug
Mac III basic probably uses it so you can't access it from Basic...
Mac III but it seems likely that Basic would reside there... since Auxmove
lives in
Mac III both aux and main memory
Dave Lyons Uses _what_, Mac III?
Dave Lyons AUXMOVE lives in ROM; so does Applesoft.
Mac III the aux move routine
Mac III so does Basic map it out?
Dave Lyons Applesoft doesn't use AUXMOVE. (Applesoft only knows about the
1st 64K.)
Republicn That's why this program is being moved to assembly. It was too
slow and we
Mac III ok makes sense
Republicn couldn't give it a lot of data.
AFL Jim Dead air...
AFL Jim :)
Republicn Does AUXMOVE use the area of RAM where BASIC stores the program?
Matt DTS Anyone up for pizza?
Mac III well... at least I showed everyone that they didn't have to be an
expert to
AFA Parik w/o anchovies...
Mac III talk in here :)
JSchober Yeah, Matt!! Pepperoni, double cheese, please...
AFL Scott <----Ham, too!
AFA Parik Do the annunciators do anything special on the GS? I vaguely
remember a
Dave HDS Your buying?
AFL Jim It can, Repub..
AFA Parik certain combination doing something "neat"...
Matt DTS My what?
Dave Lyons AUXMOVE won't screw up your program unless the parameters you feed
it tell it
Mac III Cupid and AppleLink?
Dave Lyons to copy something over it.
JSchober LOL... it wasn't an ADVERTISEMENT wyrm... amazing...
Republicn Thanks. That answered that.
Dave Lyons Parik, I think at least _one_ of them does something: the one for
enabling
AFL Jim Only if you're moving something from Aux Memory to the area where
your BASIC
AFL Jim program is.
Dave Lyons double-hires graphics, just like the GS. On the IIc one is used
for the
Dave Lyons mouse or something.
AFL Jim Cupid just got hit by a steam roller...
AFA Parik shucks, I thought one of them would install a 16 megahertz speedup
card...
AFL Marty who's cupid? :)
Republicn Where can I get information about what Tools were added and
modified from
Republicn Prodo 16 to GS/OS?
Matt DTS A really nifty and authoritative-looking description of
AUXMOVE...
Mac III GSOS reference manual?
Matt DTS ...is on page 260 of the IIgs Firmware Reference Manual.
AFL Jim What is the story on the Lisa assembler? Brian doesn't come over
here often, so
Dave Lyons From APDA (1-800-282-APDA) buy the Toolbox Reference Update, Beta
draft, and
AFL Jim I haven't kept up with it.
Dave Lyons the GS/OS reference manual, vols I and II.
Matt DTS If you want changes done for System Disk 4.0, you need the 4.0
Release Notes...
Matt DTS ...which APDA sends with the 4.0 disks that you can buy from
them.
Dave Lyons (Yeah, that too.)
DwightW1 side question: why does my modem keep disconnecting me from the
service?
Matt DTS The other documents are things you Should Have, also.
AFA Gary J Dwight - you must be on Telenet. I had to switch to Tymenet
lately.
Matt DTS Dwight: It doesn't like you. MCI is that way with me.
AFL Jim Dwight, Bad phone line? Flakey modem?
Republicn Thanks again. I'm just getting started with assembly and this has
helped a lot
DwightW1 true, will swtich also....thanks
Republicn I got disconnected earlier tonight, but I can't switch to Tymnet,
Telenet is
Republicn the only one in my city that does 2400.
AFA Gary J I had real bad problems (7 times in one night). I haven't died
since I
AFL Jim Hi Bill
AFA Gary J switched.
BillP Hiya Jim! Topic still assm tonight?
AFL Jim BTW: Gary has finished uploading the new technotes into a
background library
DaviesDoug Anyone ever had the problem of the Super-hires screen really
screwing....
AFL Jim area. As soon as Kent moves them over in the main libraries,
you'll be able to
DaviesDoug up. like pixels shifted around and glitching
AFL Jim download them as a set or as individual files.
AFA Parik No...
JSchober Great! :)
DaviesDoug I am thinking it is my CMS drive
Matt DTS I have at home, but not at work. I power down for a while and it
goes away.
Dave Lyons Sounds like a software problem to me, Doug.
AFA Parik Have you run Mr. Fixit through it?
Republicn no
JSchober How did the CMS drive and the SHR screen get connected?? %)
CptnCrunch Anyone out there have a fully disassembled and commented Applesoft
Basic?
AFL Jim Sounds like software or bad RAM.
Dave Lyons (Like a BlockMove accidentally containing the screen....)
AFA Parik Merlin 8/16 comes with AppleSoft fully commented &
disassembled...
DaviesDoug don't know, but I have to turn my CMS off before the screen will
clear back
Dan Burton It looks like the screens mapping screws up
DaviesDoug up after turning my machine off four about 5 minutes
DaviesDoug NO....pixels flicker and it's like all the pixels get shifted but
one
DaviesDoug real weird
Matt DTS Let me guess - vertical lines the entire screen tall that are
placed wrong?
CptnCrunch I don't have all the merlin files. That's what I'm lookig for...
DaviesDoug Yep, MATT
DaviesDoug other things too
AFA Parik ah wait, I've had that problem running Applelink before...
Matt DTS It's not your CMS - I have a Sider and the same thing happens
occasionally.
JSchober (I want to know how programs can draw on the GS' border in SHR
mode...
JSchober definitely drawing on the BORDER... weird...)
AFA Parik Its e-z Joe.
Matt DTS Joey: Go away. Far away. Now.
JSchober LOL Matt... oh, Parik??
AFA Parik One easy way is to switch during scan line interrupts...
Matt DTS CptnCrunch: "Don't have all the Merlin files?" You bought a
defective copy?
AFA Parik You can also use the VERCNT counter ($E0C02E) as documented in one
of Matt's
Dave HDS Yeah...just reload the background color register quick...
JSchober To switch WHAT?? I always thought the border wasn't mapped to SHR
coords...
AFL Marty How do you not have all the Merlin files?
AFA Parik technotes. A demo I'll be releasiing soon changes the screen text
color when
AFA Parik you do a open-apple-reset and prints neat messages :).
AFA Parik (rapidly that is, it gives a hue-colored effect. Looks
impressive)
CptnCrunch Well, I didn't exactly "Buy" it. I'm "Borrowing" it.
DaviesDoug :)
AFA Parik Its not Joe, you change $E0C034, lower nibble.
BillP Buy it, its well worth the cost
AFA Parik When you change it at certain intervals, only part of the screen
change colors.
AFL Jim and we'll talk to you then :)
DaviesDoug just DON't change the high nibble....it's disasterous
CptnCrunch Yeah, I know...
AFA Parik ie, if you change when the thing is on line 60 to green, the top
will be black
Dave HDS Very
Dave Lyons If "borrowing" means you have all documentation and all the
owner's copies of
JSchober Oh, I see what you're saying!! Right, right, gotcha... so the
only catch to
Dave Lyons the software, that's okay. If and only if.
AFA Parik and the bottom green. Nice effects. A guy I know in France makes
a bouncing
AFA Parik roller effect. neat!
JSchober that is that the left and right sides must be identical on each
screen line,
JSchober eh?
JSchober (a bouncing WHAT??)
AFA Parik (those things mother used to whack you with :)
JSchober LOL... on the BORDER??
AFA Parik Yup. He changes at various intervals, ie, change at 60 and
rechange at 80 so
AFA Parik you get a 20 line roller, and then increment so at next pass
change at 62 and
AFA Parik at 82...neat.
AFA Gary J Sounds pretty wild. :)
Republicn I gotta run. Bye all.
DaviesDoug Dans done this (the rolling effect) looks neat
JSchober OIC... hehehee... neat trick. I gotta play with that, some.
(MUCH to Matt's
AFA Gary J Bye, Repub.
BillP I'd like to get hold of the demo that was playing in the APDA
booth at the last
JSchober annoyance... >:)
BillP Applefest
AFA Gary J Right, Bill :)
AFA Parik You and the rest of the world...hehehe
JSchober What was that, Bill, for us poor, unfortunate folk who didn't
go?
Matt DTS Playing with the border is just fine. But I've still not heard
the end...
AFL Jim Me too....
Matt DTS ...from people who *insist* there's some way to make QuickDraw
draw on the...
Matt DTS ...border and Apple just won't tell them. <sigh>
AFA Parik overscan...hehehe
DaviesDoug yah right
JSchober LOL Matt... yeah, overscan, indeed!! (Would be a nice touch,
y'know...)
Dave HDS You gotta be kidding, Matt...heh...
BillP I wouldn't suspect people would use Quickdraw to do it
Dave Lyons (Are there a lot of people like that, Matt, or just a few
insistent ones?)
Dave HDS Are they certified or certifiable???
Matt DTS just a few
AFL Jim The few, the insistent, the ugly...
JSchober :)
AFA Parik Aha, another question. When I was scanning for the oa-reset
semivector, I
AFA Gary J :)
AFA Parik saw that the VBL vector returns with a RTL when not in QD. When
in Quickdraw,
AFA Parik does QD replace this? Is this vector replaced with a routine
that does
AFA Parik something at any other time? if so, would this effect a program
that is using
Dave Lyons Parik, are you sure you mean the VBL vector, not the scanline
vector or
AFA Parik the retrace period t draw?
Dave Lyons something? Gimme it in hex if you have it. What System Disk,
too?
AFL Marty (what the h*ll's a semivector?)
AFA Parik The VBL vector.
BillP an 18 wheeled vector
JSchober (A vector that may or may not exist, Marty... :-)
Matt DTS <raspberry>
AFA Parik $E1/0030-33. Jumps to a $FF area and RTLs in there with carry
clear I believe.
AFA Gary J LOL, Bill! :)
Dave Lyons VBL points to the HeartBeat task manager, _not_ to an RTL.
Dave HDS Messing about in the //gs e1 vectors???
AFL Marty (thanks Bill :)
BillP I got a good question...
Dave HDS Isn;t that an Apple NO NO ???
Matt DTS Sort of. Maybe. But maybe not.
AFL Marty Good questions are Apple no no's?
BillP In the package we got with Merlin 8/16...(we bought it) was an add
for a card
DaviesDoug make sure you have appletalk interrupts off to do the border
stuff.....
AFA Gary J It's all right to look, but not to touch, Dave.
BillP that claims to be a hardware debugger for 8 and 16 bit mode....
DaviesDoug otherwise it ruins the timing
BillP Does anyone have one or know anthing about it?
Matt DTS We prefer people to use GetVector and SetVector to look at
vectors...
Matt DTS ...but there are some in the Firmware Reference which you can't.
Dave HDS I'm sure you do...never know when those will be moved...
AFA Gary J Who was the manufacturer, Bill?
AFL Jim What's the name of it, Bill?
Matt DTS Well, there went Dave. Bye now, Dave. Come back sometime.
BillP I forgot now... I'll post a question tomorrow about it in Lets
Discuss
AFA Gary J Was it ProDev?
DaviesDoug hi dave
BillP I'd be happy to hear of any hardware debugger that anyone know of
actually. :)
JSchober Gee, Dave, welcome to AII Development!
AFA Parik Oh whoops, Dave you're right. It DOES something. So does this
steal away
Matt DTS There he is.
Dave Lyons Dang. Fatal Error 0911 when I tried to go into Nifty List. :(
BillP yes, It was ProDev
JSchober (and you came back that quickly??)
AFA Parik from the retrace period?
DaviesDoug hmmmm....nifty list during a conference?
AFA Parik (Dave's got Nifty List! :)
BillP know anything about it?
DaviesDoug that could be deadly :)
Matt DTS "Dr., it hurts when I do this." "Well, don't do that." <ducking>
AFA Gary J I have a pamphlet on that, Bill (from last year!)
JSchober Why not, Doug?
DaviesDoug sort of like driving drunk
Dave Lyons No, I was gone about 2 minutes, but you guys couldn't tell from
the Hi/Bye
Dave Lyons line.
DennisDoms (I bought a System Saver IIgs...no more "0911"'s with the fan, it
seems.)
JSchober Oh, right, forgot that....
AFA Parik Bill, Gary talked about this a LONG time ago, it sounded really
neat...
Dave Lyons Yeah, Nifty List works great from within ALPE, as long as you
don't get 0911
AFA Parik Didn't they make the GS version also?
Dave Lyons errors for hitting Apple-Ctrl-ESC. I _have_ a fan already; maybe
I need a
Dave Lyons second one.
JSchober A fan for the fan?
BillP yea, I miss beening able to do hardware break, supposely it
supports the GS
BillP beening = being ::sigh::
AFA Gary J Chuck Kelly, the designer, now has an account here on AppleLink.
AFA Gary J I wrote to him in December and he replied to me here in E-mail.
BillP oooo maybe we should ask about a discount on multiples
AFA Parik Rephrased question : IRQ.VBL runs a routine that is sort of long.
Does this
AFA Parik take away from the retrace period for a program that needs as much
of it as
AFA Gary J The 8 bit version has been available for some time, but there was
a problem
AFA Parik possible? Would it be wise to steal the vector away during
program execution
AFA Parik and replace it later on?
BillP Thanks Gary, I'll contact him
AFA Gary J with the IIGS version. He said they have solved the problem and
will be
AFA Gary J beta testing (this month?) soon.
JSchober RSN, probably...
AFA Gary J I think his screen name is ProDev.
JSchober (looks like it, Gary, that's a valid name...)
Dave Lyons No, it's unwise, Parik: for example, the GS/OS Disk II driver use
a heartbeat
BillP well... we can certain do some heavy beta testing for him if he
wants :)
Dave Lyons tasks in that queue to decide whether the cached blocks are still
valid, I
AFA Gary J Right, Bill :)
DaviesDoug Dan got dumped by his kid
Dave Lyons think. There could be lots of heartbeat tasks. Probably the best
thing you
AFA Gary J I've been wanting to see a IIGS version in action myself.
Dave Lyons program could do is (1) do the best it can or (2) detect that the
interrupt
AFL Jim Is this a hint that you're doing more IIGS development, Bill?
Dave Lyons routine isn't getting called often enough & tell the user to
remove some
AFL Jim :)
Dave Lyons utilities to improve performance.
BillP Its no secret Jim...
BillP Everyone who came to the conference on AppleLink software heard me
:)
AFA Parik Hmm, thanks Dave. Right now the scroll routines are semi-jerky,
so any time
AFA Parik stolen away is crucial...:(
AFL Jim Is that a hint that I should show up for more conferences, Bill?
BillP Of course, I did not say anything about SHR. :)
AFA Parik hehe
AFA Gary J Yes you did. You said it was too slow, Bill :)
BillP Jim, I'm sure you have enough to keep you busy.. you can always
call me
AFA Parik I remember Bill saying at the Alink software conference that FREE
Transwarp
BillP direct if you want to know anything :)
AFA Parik GS's will be given away to everyone. *grin*
AFL Jim so's 2400 bps...
BillP :)
AFL Scott I do too!:)
BillP I'll need one first
DaviesDoug Anyone bought a Sonic Blaster yet? Not too bad.
BillP I was promised a beta GS Zip chip last year too, I wonder what
ever happen to
BillP it
AFL Jim Any other assembly discussion before we call it a night?
DaviesDoug <thinking>
JSchober (any static in the Blaster, Doug?? Heard a couple bad reviews in
info-apple..)
DaviesDoug Yah sorta, but the software is excellent
AFL Scott B-Spline curves.. the inside story... Enquiring minds want to
know..:)
Dave HDS Tree Splaying anyone?
AFA Parik You're right about VBL handler nono's Dave, I just replaced mine
with a direct
Matt DTS I still want pizza.
AFA Parik RTL and it froze up the other GS...:)
AFA Parik 0 (small, mini pizza)
AFL Jim I want Gates....
JSchober Well, gee, Matt, go and call 'em up now! You're paying, of
course...
Dave HDS Bill?
AFA Gary J Free delivery within a 3000 mile radius, right? :)
DennisDoms (Gee, Jim, isn't there an SF branch?)
AFA Parik 30 minutes or less!
JSchober Uh huh... in 30 minutes or less... GMTA Parik... :)
AFL Jim Nope :(
AFA Parik :)
AFA Parik Go to Arnelli's pizza in Berkeley, fantastic, New York style pizza
you'll
AFA Parik never forget.
DennisDoms Hmmm...I'll go tomorrow and think of you... :)
AFL Jim Thanks a lot, Dennis....
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Jim I'll think of you when I wear short sleeve shirts in February...
Matt DTS jake's, maybe
AFA Gary J How can I draw a pepperoni on my screen using assembly language?
:)
AFA Parik bit shift it!
TimH06 Use the _DrawPepperoni QD call!
AFA Gary J heheh
AFL Jim Matt, will Jakes let me bring my own sauce?
DennisDoms LDA #pepperoni, STA $2000
DaviesDoug do a ROL PIZZA
Matt DTS Well, FrameOval and PaintOval come to mind...
BillP here
Dave Lyons (Yeah, with an appropriate PenPattern, of course.)
BillP someone call me? or was it the smell of pizza
DaviesDoug i think i have gas
AFA Parik My car does too.
AFA Parik At least I hope so.
DaviesDoug my doesn't, little mice
BillP Graphic APPLE Sound
AFA Gary J Hi Adrian.
Dave HDS Yes, but can you use quickdraw to draw that pepperoni in the
boarder????
AdrianT1st hello
BillP that's what I heard
AFA Parik Only if you use overscan w/ HAM mode.
AFA Gary J LOL! (Dave :)
DaviesDoug if you look cross-eyed
AFL Jim Well... goodnight everyone and thanks for stopping by. Check the
libraries
BillP It in one of the new APple II Tech notes that I got today
DaviesDoug new stuff jim?
Dave HDS And of course blitter interrupts...
AFL Jim later this week - I know you'll like the work Gary has done.
TimH06 Hasn't Matt told you how to use QD on the border yet?
DaviesDoug since yesterday?
JSchober LOL... sheesh...
Matt DTS Well, that's my cue. G'night, all.
AFA Parik <-- took a peek at Gary's work, LOTS of stuff.
JSchober 'Night, Jim!! :) (I gotta run, too, actually... see y'all
later!!)
AFL Jim Doug, the new Technotes will be up.
DaviesDoug oh...already have em
AFL Jim Isn't it nice, Parik?
AFA Parik Gary must have spent many a hour cursing at the computer
screen..."Why the
AFA Parik hell is thi taking so long?" :)
BillP blitter? isn't that an Amiga term
AFA Gary J :)
AFA Parik Its also the stuff that ends up on your windshield when you drive
real fast.
Dave HDS Yeah...hehe
AFA Gary J It wasn't too bad, Parik :)
BillP we have some cross developers here eh?
DaviesDoug didn't you here bill...the GS has one now
DaviesDoug :)
BillP :) :x
AFA Gary J Just billions and billions of them.
AFA Parik Hi A2GS!
AFL Jim Bye, I've got to go move across town some more...
Dave HDS Very true Bill...I work from Sun's down to PC's (I'll never put an
Apple at the
A2GS Hi!
Dave HDS bottom...
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Jim.
AFA Parik heheh Dave
AFA Parik Night Jim!
Dave Lyons Bye, Jim.
AFL Jim ::poof::