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NUMBER OF LINES: 999
001=Usr:0 Null User 06/30/87 20:34 Msg:0 Call:0 Lines:19
1$If you are in need of help, you need but ask...
2$************************* INSTALLED: 22 SEP 87 ****************************
3$Welcome to BWMS II (BackWater Message System II) Mike Day System operator
4$**************************************************************************
5$GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS II IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
6$ PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
7$BWMS II was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS II is a privately
8$owned and operated system which is currently open for use by the general
9$public. No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the
10$system is privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all
11$messages which I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the
12$system, it will be periodically purged of messages (only 999 lines of data
13$can be saved). To leave a message, type 'ENTER'. Use ctrl/C to get out
14$the ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering
15$the message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to
16$replace the line. To exit from the system, type 'BYE' then hang up.
17$Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
18$**************************************************************************
19$
002=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 09/22/87 21:32 Msg:591 Call:3934 Lines:4
20 Abstention from any aleatory undertakings precludes a potential
21 escalation of a lucrative nature.
22 *****************************************************************
23
003=Usr:159 09/23/87 11:24 Msg:592 Call:3941 Lines:18
24 One line away from making it to the top! Rats! It's been a long time
25 since I was last here. I see that the format has changed to a password
26 only format. It's a shame, since Portland can no longer boast about
27 having a 'free' system anymore. I guess that greatness attracts pricks,
28 like honey attracts flies, and a BBS must protect itself from those
29 who get no pleasure out of creating, only of destroying.
30 I can se a few hopeless romantics, a magic user or two, some poetry
31 and spies. But where is Spell Check? Everyone used to love him(or her)
32 Also obviously gone is the person who apparently could only type blanks
33 and carriage returns.
34 Mikey, I am mad. I think that I am one of the few people who can generate
35 a 'BREAK' anymore, and your new system won't accept them. The old one could,
36 and I did use that key. After all, a 'BREAK' is legitimate ASCII, even if
37 slightly obselete. The entire RS232 standard is hoary and ancient, and I'm
38 sure that you use that, so that couldn't be the objection. Couldn't you see
39 your way to please programming break in, just for little old me?
40 Well, I got to go to class now, so BYE
41 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++OLD 000001TED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
004=Usr:67 09/23/87 21:05 Msg:593 Call:3948 Lines:6
42 &)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)&)
43 TED: I know how you feel. I was there about a month ago. All the old
44 names were gone. The old stories have advaced too far for my comprehension.
45 But I adjusted. Have fun sometimes time and change can be very benificial.
46 ................
47
005=Usr:7 Leonard Erickson 09/23/87 23:52 Msg:594 Call:3952 Lines:5
48 Ted, you *were* the top! The stuff above you is how a certain unnamed person
49 "breaks in" a new disk (and I am not referring to the first 19 lines!).
50 By the way, since when is BREAK (aka .25 sec of space [ or was that mark])
51 in ASCII? what's the Hex code?
52 ____________________________________Leonard____________________________________
006=Usr:159 09/24/87 18:35 Msg:595 Call:3971 Lines:36
53 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
54 Ahah! I knew I'd catch someone on that 'break' statement. Notice, in my last
55 message that I did not say 'ASCII character', only 'legitimate ASCII' opinions
56 vary on the definition of ASCII, 'ESCAPE' is another misunderstood key that is
57 often not recognized by software, but 'break' was used on almost all early
58 terminals and mainframes, and was associated with ASCII. I know full well that
59 'BREAK' is a hardware type communication that needs a modem that is smart
60 enough to recognize it, but I had hoped that Mikey was still using the same
61 modem. Anyway, ASCII is not a bunch of hex characters, it is a STANDARD, not a
62 LANGUAGE. Just hope that someday you are not required to take a test on the
63 ORIGINAL standard RS232. ANYWAY, since I was LATE, I'll do the traditional
64 MADE IT TO THE TOP, right here.
65 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++00001TED++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
66 Ages after the formation of the planets and their sun, the surface of the
67 third planet cooled to rock and the last stab from gigantic planetary storms
68 created the ocans. Ages after the oceans ceased boiling and the first halting
69 attempts of life met with sucess, came the inevitable formation of the Ice.
70 At first, restrained by the continuing heat and orbital nearness of the planet
71 to it's sun, the Ice kept to the rotational poles of the planet. As orbital
72 fluctuations continued throughout history the Ice advanced and retreated,
73 wreaking havoc on the green planetary life and primitive animals. As always,
74 the Ice lost, falling back to it's strongholds on the poles. Then, as the life
75 of the planet and it's systems advanced, passing celestial bodies ripped the
76 planet from it's once stable orbit. The orbit became elongated and as life
77 disappeared the Ice alternatly won and lost, every year holding a power hungry
78 grip on the planet and then disappearing altogether. The aged and dying sun,
79 almost completly used up, with it's last flash expanded, completly destroying
80 the first planet and engulfing the third planet in it's outer corona. The Ice,
81 once dominant as a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, broke into it's components
82 as the planet's surface melted into rock. Ages passed, and as the sun
83 retreated to a cold white sphere the Ice reached it's final stage of victory.
84 The remaning gases that the third planet had managed to grab gradually froze,
85 blanketing the surface in a cold white covering. The only movement came from
86 the occasional meteor smashing into the surface that had seen the final victory
87 of the Ice.
88
007=Usr:94 09/25/87 01:49 Msg:596 Call:3980 Lines:16
89 <------- ___ & / \ __ ___, - | o \' & |o ,' \__ _/ ai
90
91
92 Send me some mail sometime! I'll write back!!!
93
94 <------- ____
95 &&& / \ __ _____,
96 `-- | o \ ` &&/
97 `| | o },-'
98 \____( )__/ David Bleckmann
99 ,' \' \ UUCP: {tektronix,hp-pcd}!orstcs!jacobs!bleckmd
100 /~~~~~~|. | .}~~~\ Internet/CSNet: bleckmd@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
101 ,-----( . | .}--. US Mail: 411 SW 9th
102 | . /\___/ Corvallis, OR 97333
103 `----^,\ \
104 \_ | ACK!
008=Usr:4 Milchar 09/25/87 23:12 Msg:598 Call:4006 Lines:46
105 @##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@#
106 Irindall had plans for himself.
107 His plans didn't include being stranded on a backwater planet like
108 Aerth, but then Irin's plans hardly ever came to anything.
109 Unlike the wealthy Yggin passing by him on the street, Irindall was a
110 "mutie." Because of this small fact, he was a slender, blue humanoid
111 with special glands in his extremities. He could secrete a sticky
112 substance that allowed him to cling to walls and scale the steepest
113 inclines. This talent proved itself to be exceedingly useful in his
114 current employment, the theft of whatever he could get away with. He
115 made the Yggin pay for their ridicule of him, the way that their eyes held
116 an amused contempt of him and his kind. Irin often became angry at this,
117 and upon occasion damaged one of his tormentors.
118 But not now. Not tonight. Irin had other plans.
119 Irindall slipped past the workers returning home in the fading sunlight,
120 unseen in the increasing gloom. He was entering the fringe of Tchyr that
121 was near the 'port itself. He sought the new place he had heard about. A
122 new Gate had brought another race, and one of them opened an establishment.
123 There were rumors. Irin wanted to find if there was any truth behind them.
124 Making his way through the streets, Irin came upon a building of a type
125 he had never seen before. It was comprised of a brown, rough, strange
126 nonmetallic substance. He touched a wall. A bit of the stuff came off in
127 his hand, revealing another smooth surface underneath. He smelled it. It
128 reminded him of a plant.
129 Festive sounds floated through the open door. Irin drifted into the
130 odd building, enchanted by the promise of relaxation. A voice near his ear
131 disrupted Irin's thoughts.
132 "Irindall Tanarihun? I have a proposition for you. Talents such as
133 yours should not go unused."
134 Irin spun about, seeking the voice. He found that it belonged to a
135 short, dark haired Yggin that held some respect in his eyes, not the
136 ridicule. Irin was so startled by this that he allowed his curiosity to
137 overcome his caution, and followed the Yggin to a booth in a darker section
138 of the building.
139 The Yggin wasted no time. "I am assembling a team of beings to explore
140 the Sclanbu Zone. I would like to employ you, despite your dislike for
141 humans who are what you call 'Yggin.' Some of the members of the team may
142 be 'pure humans,' and I don't want that affecting performance."
143 Irin finally understood. The human was mutie, after all. A telepath.
144 "You would be paid thirty thousand credits, plus a bonus for recovered
145 artifacts. We will depart when I finish recuiting, in a few days time.
146 Have you questions?"
147 Irin knew it was a rhetorical question. "No. I accept. You will find
148 me when the time comes?"
149 "Yes. Excuse me. I go to find other candidates."
150 @##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@#
009=Usr:67 09/26/87 06:16 Msg:599 Call:4010 Lines:10
151 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
152 leonard- i am the one that entered the text and it was because of you
153 that i could not logg back on to finish that message. i was unfortunatley
154 broken in by a call waiting that . i did not like the tone of your
155 message (pardon the phrasiology). i have as much right here as you do since
156 i still after months of being back have retained my access. i do not like
157 being brushed off like somesort of underling that does not know what he is
158 doing with the system(hence in my age a DWID).please disregard but dont
159 disregard get the message?
160 |||||||||||||||||||||||||YES FROM THE GRAVE (KING SILICON)|||||||||||||||||
010=Usr:67 09/26/87 10:54 Msg:600 Call:4011 Lines:1
161
011=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 09/26/87 14:55 Msg:601 Call:4015 Lines:11
162 Before you get too hot and bothered, I suggest you reread Leonards message.
163 he was not referring to your message, but the 'one before TED's'. Yours
164 was 'after' TED's message. Further, The entire message was commenting
165 about the first message on the disk. The first message was TED's as
166 Leonard stated, indicating that the message immediately prior to his
167 message with the obscur quotation is not considered to be a 'real' top
168 of disk message since it is always there, and has been for a year now.
169 Unless you claim to be the person entering the quotation, he was not
170 talking about you. And since I am the person who enters said quotations,
171 he was talking about me.
172 ***********************************************************************
012=Usr:164 up.
@@@@@@@@@@P 09/26/87 15:06 Msg:602 Call:4016 Lines:10
173 AIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIARAIRAIRIAIRAIRAIRAIRAIR
174
175 #####
176 # # Mutate Now,
177 # # #
178 # # # # Avoid the rush.
179 # ### #
180 # #
181 ##### A.I.R.
182 AIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIR Arthur Ernest Wright AIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIR
013=Usr:4 Milchar 09/26/87 15:25 Msg:604 Call:4017 Lines:8
183 Advertisement found in Seper 26 issue of the "Tchyr Talker:"
184 ^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^
185 WANTED: Explorers willing to join expedition to another Zone. Must
186 be in good health. Experience or special talents preferred. Payment for
187 services to be no less than 30,000 credits plus salvage bonus per person.
188 Contact Jorg Niboh at tri-vid 67041-28539.
189 ^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^
190
014=Usr:164 up.
@@@@@@@@@@P 09/26/87 19:45 Msg:605 Call:4023 Lines:1
191 I shall not contribute again until I see more contributions. WRITE A.I.R.
015=Usr:3 Ramek 09/26/87 20:50 Msg:606 Call:4030 Lines:62
192 #################################################################
193 Consciousness came slowly... much too slowly...
194 The rest-time must have been very long this time around. I don't
195 remember it ever taking this long before. The past was largely
196 still a blur. Too much time had passed. Perhaps many of the
197 memories would never return. When the time was so long that
198 sometimes happened.
199 I wasn't even sure how long I had been taking to regain my
200 self identity. My thoughts were fragmented as if they had been
201 scattered across a thousand million minds.
202 I cannot die. I can however become dormant when I do not
203 have a living body and mind to provide as a focus for my being.
204 In times of non-existance I can be scattered across many lives.
205 In the teaming millions of one-celled life-forms. Or failing any
206 life at all, I become dormant, taking refuge in the cosmic dust.
207 But, when I do not have a body, when I do not have a mind, I
208 cannoot think. I do not live. In a way I don't even exist. I am
209 but an image of my life force imbedded in the very fabric of
210 space and time.
211 Once before I had spent a long and slow time waiting for
212 life to evolve into a form that would allow me to think and see
213 and feel. I waited dormant in the gasses. I waited asleep in the
214 rock. I waited alone in the bodies of a billion bacteria.
215 In time there came plants then fish and higher forms, until
216 after much time came those who could think. Those who could see
217 and feel. I became alive again.
218 That was a long time, I still remember little of what went
219 before, I do remember the explosion that snuffed out the body I
220 had inhabited, and the whole galaxy that had existed. It had been
221 destroyed in a cosmic upheaval of unknown proportions. How long I
222 had been dormant I don't know, but when I was able to think and
223 see again life had changed, the universe had changed. Things were
224 different.
225 This time though it was worse. I,m not sure what happened,
226 but everything is different. The rules are no longer the same.
227 This is a new world, a new universe. This body different than any
228 I have known before. I see differently, I hear differently.
229 Things I did before I can no longer do I can remember what to do
230 to cause it to happen, but when I try nothing happenes.
231 But there are hints of new powers I never even dreamed of
232 before. There seems to be a great warping of the fabric of space
233 here. Where before it was just a curiosity, now it is a common
234 thing. It touches on life in many areas. And these other
235 powers.... the power of the mind... magic they call it. Things
236 that took me great effort and energy to do in a very small way.
237 Now I find there are those who can channel outside energy to do
238 much more.
239 There is much I have to learn. Things are different now. The
240 technology is not new. I have seen that come and go. I use it
241 when it suits my needs such as now. In this body I inhabit. I
242 must encase it in a shell of metal and glass to protect it from
243 the harsh enviornment of the space between worlds. It is so
244 fragile. And yet with it I am able to do things I was never able
245 to even dream about before.
246 Whatever happened it was a great change. The stagnent past
247 was swept aside. A universe created to fill the void. I don't
248 know if I will remember much of the past, so much time has gone
249 by. So much life passed in a scatered form. But this new
250 existance appears to have even more to offer, a possiblity for
251 greater achievments. New goals to set, new mountains to scale.
252 When you live forever it is change that you seek the most.
253 ########################### Ramek ############################
016=Usr:11 Z [ \ 09/27/87 09:37 Msg:607 Call:4038 Lines:3
254 *%(#$*%@*%)@_*%)_@#%+@_#%(+#@$*#)$*%)_#*%@+%#%*)@%*@)_+%*@%@)_^%#$@^*)@*^_)@#
255 Aha, now we know who has been leaving those messages at the top!
256 *%()#_%*@#)_$%*@)_#%*+@_(|_%*(_)@* L'homme sans Parity *%@#)_*%@)_*!_)$*!~_)$
017=Usr:166 **************** 09/27/87 10:18 Msg:608 Call:4041 Lines:10
257 Well, here I am for what is worth. I am glad to see that this system has gone t
258 to a password only system. However I fail to see how this is going to prevent
259 twits from trying to screw up the system. With the ease that I got a password,
260 it would only be too easy to fill up
261 the board with returns and "We be dumpin. like the bad old days. Whatever happe
262
263 happened to those twits anyway?
264 sa
265 c
266 off
018=Usr:4 Milchar 09/27/87 17:30 Msg:609 Call:4047 Lines:6
267 #@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@#
268 To: Greater Milky Way Transport, Inc; RTCODE UKS387BBJP.
269 Having trouble recruiting stop fear rumors of zone drive away potentials stop
270 request further support from company to attract explorers stop awaiting
271 orders stop
272 #@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@##@#
019=Usr:159 09/27/87 18:42 Msg:610 Call:4049 Lines:6
273 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
274 From: Greater Milky Way Transport, Inc; Code, ALL ALLOWED,UNLIMITED CREDIT
275 Continue recruiting efforts ignore time pressure stop request for support
276 will be met by leave date stop INNISCORP considering honoring request stop
277 further communication in 24 hours stop
278 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
020=Usr:11 Z [ \ 09/28/87 11:18 Msg:611 Call:4063 Lines:2
279 What happened to the twits? I guess this 'easy' password system is just too
280 much for them. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all. Something to ponder.
021=Usr:143 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 09/28/87 13:06 Msg:612 Call:4065 Lines:46
281 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
282 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@Rob's^^^^^^^
283 Well, Well, boys and girls! Aren't we having a grand old time today?
284 i haven't had this much fun since the times when my brother chased me around
285 the house with a kitchen knife.
286
287
288
289 oh, A.I.R.--since when have you ever contributed without someone else
290 contributing first?
291 (Sorry, I know that was cruel, but I just couldn't resist. XOX!!)
292 By the way, does anyone know of any job openings for a genius ex-waitress?
293 Being the sourse of world wide inspiration is tough work,yes, but it doesn't
294 pay the rent!
295 ........................now for my comment on the infamous "first line"
296 kiddo, sometimes you make me wanna puke. But I do know the feeling (as you
297 are well aware) . Your cynical tone doesn't fool me--hell, I alsays knew there
298 was a heart in there somewhere, it's finding it through all the bullshit that
299 drove me crazy. however, in one [BIG] case you were right, much to my chagrin.
300
301 Who ever said that two Longs didn't make a Wright?
302 .......................................................................ouch....
303 Now, how about some bad poetry?
304
305 Sonnet I
306@ Dec.21, 1986
307 How can I express what I find in thee?
308 Thou art as bright and strong as mid day's sun,
309 Changing as the moon's hidden mystery,
310 As near and far as stars to this small one.
311 Thou art witty, thou art clever, thou art gay,
312 Thou art modest in thy knowledge and thy strength,
313 Thou art patient in my tongues unkind delay
314 And with words of newfound wisdom speak at length.
315 Thy passions are unmeasured, like the sea-
316 They rise aand fall as often as the tide.
317 And compassions run deeper still in thee,
318 When in my weakness I in thee confide.
319 I find in thee all features I adore,
320 And know that all I find, there still is more.
321
322 ........................................................sept 22, '87.......
323 even a muse is sometimes inspired
324 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
325 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
326
022=Usr:168 @@PThe person pr 09/28/87 14:17 Msg:613 Call:4068 Lines:2
327 HELLO. THIS IS JUST TEST TO SEE IF I KNOW HOW TO USE THE SYSTEM.
328 I HOPE I DO.
023=Usr:159 09/28/87 15:23 Msg:614 Call:4069 Lines:56
329 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
330 Well, I see that the mandatory seatbelt law will not go into effect after all.
331 I hope everyone knows what this means- if 2/3 of the states don't have a
332 mandatory seatbelt law by 1990, the feds will require air bags. Personally, I
333 would rather see everybody buckle up, but I have very little faith in the
334 average intelligence of the population when it comes to cars, so I know that
335 a mandatory seatbelt law will not work. The next best thing are air bags.
336 Thus, the following dissertation.................
337 Air bags vs. mandatory seat belts,,,, the liability angle.
338
339 As everybody should know there has been a recent battle in our state on
340 the topic of whether or not to require people to buckle up. On one side has
341 been the Governor, the Big Three auto makers, and just about everyone with a
342 cynical attitude to people buckeling up(the PRO side) On the other side has
343 been a radical lunitic fringe, the 'SEATBELTS ARE UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED' groups,
344 and the general population who are sick of having everything remotly fun
345 outlawed and are tired of stupid lawyers ramming ever more legislation down
346 the throat of the general public. Besides that, most intelligent people
347 realize that a population who drives 70 MPH in a 55 zone is not going to
348 buckle a seat belt to save their necks, espically if it is required. Everyone
349 has their own arguements for and aginst, but most people will concede that an
350 air bag will save more lives than an unbuckeled seat belt.
351 But why the resistance to air bags? The fact is, most air bag resistance
352 comes from the automakers, not the general public. There are no public 'BAN
353 THE AIR BAG' groups, because air bags have never been required thus the issue
354 has never GOT to the public.
355 Why does air bag resistance come from the Big Three? These are the same
356 groups who are funneling lots of money into the PRO MANDATORY SEAT BELT LAW
357 people. Why require the use of seat belts when installation of an air bag
358 (Which would be working ALL the time, not just when the passenger remembered
359 to activate it) would simply bypass peoples natural tendency to forget to
360 buckle up? The big three have generated the arguement that installation of an
361 aiir bag would add 100 or so dollars to the purchase price of a car. SO WHAT?
362 ALL automakers would have to install them, so the competiton would gain
363 nothing in the way of a pricing advantage, and besides that if airbags were
364 mass produced the cost would undoubtedly be much lower due to the economies
365 of scale. Is this arguement really believeable coming from the same people
366 who want to sell you $300 worth of stereo system in a new car?
367 In actuality, of course, the real reason has nothing to do with a supposed
368 desire of the auto people to 'save you money'. The real reason is that
369 installation of air bags would fundamentally alter liability in accidents.
370 Lets look at mass production. Every single production run of anything,
371 no matter how well designed, contains a failure rate of items. As example,
372 silicon substrate manufacturing, necessary for producing IC'S, sometimes
373 has a failure rate of 50% or more per wafer. Of course, most production
374 runs do not have failure rates THAT high, but they do exist. Sometimes it
375 is possible to test the finished product in-house, but even then there is
376 still a failure rate, even though it is lower. That is why almost anything
377 you buy from anybody, (except used cars, Ha Ha) is warrentied, even though
378 the warrenty may only last a month or so.
379 Now look at the supposed manufacture of runs of air bag subsystems.
380 If an automaker makes a million air bags with a estimated failure rate of 2%,
381 that figures out to 2 thousand malfunctioning air bags. Can you imagine
382 what would happen if even one of these malfunctioned in an accident?
383 Lawsuit City.
384 ++++++++++++00001TED++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
024=Usr:143 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 09/28/87 16:25 Msg:615 Call:4070 Lines:13
385 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^@ Rob's^^
386 Ted, you are a strange man. Where did you come up with this? Not That I Have
387 Anything Against Safety, mind you, but what kind of mind would put such
388 material on a BBS?
389 Curiouser and curiouser.
390 Now, a certain phone call has completely distroyed the purpose for my last
391 entry. But rather than deleting the thing, I have opted post this PUBLIC
392 APOLOGY to my pal and yours, A.I.R. So Sorry, Kiddo. The spirit in which my
393 note was written, however, remains.
394 Luv ya, dear.
395 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
396
397
025=Usr:23 09/28/87 20:27 Msg:616 Call:4076 Lines:1
398 Grannlurk.... September 28, 1987 at 10:11:15pm.
026=Usr:54 09/29/87 01:45 Msg:617 Call:4083 Lines:1
399 Go Ducks!!!
027=Usr:31 Z@ [CA \AA 09/29/87 09:46 Msg:618 Call:4090 Lines:1
400 Doclurk +++++++++++++ Sept. 29th, 1987 @ 11:11:51
028=Usr:159 09/29/87 13:36 Msg:619 Call:4092 Lines:15
401 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
402 This board, for those who have been familiar with it's history, has swung
403 between a story board, and a debate board. Sometimes there has been an
404 adventure in full swing, other times an argument. Usually the arguments are
405 started by someone calling someone else a name, twit or otherwise. Usually
406 the stories are started by an invitation to join an adventure.
407 My attempt at posting that rather LONG last entry was to place a reasonably
408 intelligent and controversial topic up, in the obviously frail hope that it
409 would provoke a response. I did this because the last story entry was
410 apparently a miserable failure. (now if that doesn't provoke a response,
411 NOTHING will)
412 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++000001TED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
413 By the way, in answer to your question MUSE, regarding what kind of mind
414 would put up material like that;
415 The answer is, A warped one.
029=Usr:61 09/29/87 16:47 Msg:620 Call:4094 Lines:1
416 .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.Emu
030=Usr:7 Leonard Erickson 09/29/87 18:27 Msg:621 Call:4095 Lines:7
417 Don't forget Channel 12 8 pm Friday Oct 2 "Star Trek: The New Generation"
418 will have its 2 hour premiere. And on Saturday Oct 3rd, the first of the
419 regular 1 hour episodes is on at 7pm.... (three hours of *new* material
420 in only 2 days not bad....)
421
422 And yes, the weapons officer *is* a Klingon....
423
031=Usr:170 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 09/30/87 20:39 Msg:622 Call:4119 Lines:27
424 THE THIRD DAY:
425 There was no electricity. Naturally, there wouldn't be: all the lines thru
426 Portland were gone, also probably the Trojan plant downriver from there. Of
427 course in this house it was debatable-it was dilapidated and deserted when she
428 had got there, and even though there were wires leading from the power pole
429 out front to the side of the house, she doubted that the wiring system was stil
430 in any sort of repair.
431 As the grey overcast dawn brightened and wan light began to fill the 1st flr
432 bedroom again, idle thoughts filled her mind:
433 *Is this the third day?
434 *No. The fourth.
435 *No. The third. I'm sure it's the third.
436 *What did the Lord do on the third day? Damnation, I've forgotten!
437 *Maybe someone left a Bible behind. Or some old books. Something- in this old
438 house-maybe some old SF ...Poul or Niven or Clarke...God I hope they did...
439 Maybe some Philip K. Dick... that would be appropriate....
440 *maybe I'll move from this corner today and look....
441 Then, perhapis in some version of a psychic servolink the thought flashed\
442 through as to why she was here to begin with, that there was no more Port-
443 land to drive back thru on the way home to Seattle, and probable no more Sea-
444 tle.
445 For the seventieth time in three days, she wept.....
446 \
447
448 more to come..........Justin The Blue....
449 by
450
032=Usr:11 Z [ \ 10/01/87 15:38 Msg:623 Call:4133 Lines:10
451 Aha, another person who recognizes the genius of Philip K. Dick. Who else can
452 have their work classified by the following three guidelines?
453
454 1) Pre drugs
455 2) Post drugs, Pre green light
456 3) Post green light
457
458
459 Remember, beware people who collect antiques.
460 --------------------------------------------------PKD Fan Club----------------
033=Usr:23 10/01/87 17:26 Msg:624 Call:4137 Lines:28
461 ==========================================================================
462 Tchyr was a large, multi-faceted metropolis that covered several miles
463 of an otherwise deserted valley. Tall peaks surround it on three sides,
464 and homes of the wealthy seem to climb them as if part of an ivy plant.
465 The south side, however, faces the sprawling spaceport that services ships
466 from across the galaxy.
467 One man gazed out from a high terrace upon the sleeping city. Thousands
468 of bright stars glittered overhead, dimly illuminating his face so as to
469 make it barely distinguishable as that of Jorg Niboh.
470 A dark figure stepped out onto the terrace, watching Niboh intently.
471 It made no sound to attract attention.
472 "Welcome, Ern. A beautiful night, isn't it?"
473 The figure was visibly shaken. As it moved into better light, its
474 features resolved into those of a man. He scowled.
475 "How did you know my name, Mr. Niboh?" he whispered.
476 "I know everyone in this city who could possibly qualify for this
477 expedition. Less than fifty among thousands! I am surprised that you have
478 chosen to come to me, however. You are a loner."
479 "Been watching me, eh? Okay, it's true. I still want the job."
480 "Are you certain?"
481 "Of course."
482 "You shall be notified when we depart."
483 "Aren't you going to supply a few details, such as our destination?"
484 "It hardly matters here, does it? All zones are dangerous, including
485 this one. It is known as the Sclanbu zone if that will satisfy your
486 curiosity."
487 "Never heard of it....very well. I shall await you."
488 ==========================================================================
034=Usr:172 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 10/02/87 09:21 Msg:625 Call:4143 Lines:39
489 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@ROB'S^^^^^^^
490 of course!
491 Ted, you're a man after my own heart! I always said a warped mind is a
492 terible thing to waste. I'm glad to see that you are using all that potential
493 strangeness toward a goal which so delights the heart of man and MUSE.
494 TO THE ENTITY WITH THE THING AGAINST ANTIQUES:
495 I resemble that remark! (actually, I'm not really an antique;
496 I doubt that I even qualify as a collectible.)(Being young and in bad shape as
497 apposed to old and in good shape does have a tendancy to ruin your chances of b
498
499 being labeled as an antique. But I do collect them.)
500 Well, THE MUSE has found full time employment.(NO!!NOT FULL TIME EMPOLOYMENT!
501 AAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
502 And being an environmental and comsumer citizens lobbying or ganization(i.e.
503 f#$@ing hippy freak, godd*^n ppolitical activist) is verry interisting. The
504 quote is my title, acording to he loyal citizens with whom I converse daily.
505 FUN FACTS TO KNOW AND TELL
506 More than 6 million pounds of toxic waste is produced anually in the state of
507 Oregon
508 ............
509 235 toxic waste dump sites have been located thruout the state. More are
510 expected to be found this year.
511 ............
512
513 The production of synthetic organic chemicals has grown from 1.3billion pounds
514 in 1940 o over 320 billion pounds annually in 1978-an increase of 25,000%.
515 ............
516 Over $70 billion are spent each tear by government (hard to believe, eh?) and
517 industry on pollution control, whereas less than 1% of this total is spent on p
518 pollution prevention and toxics use reduction(which is a lot simpler, and
519 economically sound)
520 ..............
521 Since 1975 3M of Minnesota has undertaken nearly 2000 pollution prevention
522 measures and saved around $300million. One program is a redesign of a produc
523 production process to use rotating metal brushes to mechanically clean elec-
524 tronic circuit boards,instead of using toxic solvents.
525 ---------------------------------------------------------
526 Enought proselytising. Write your legislator.
527 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
035=Usr:11 Z [ \ 10/02/87 15:31 Msg:626 Call:4151 Lines:1
528 But remember, you can't fight city hall, or any other hall for that matter.
036=Usr:164 up.
@@@@@@@@@@P 10/02/87 18:29 Msg:627 Call:4154 Lines:3
529 More of Justin the blue's work is available on agora.
530 if interested send mail to eagle @ agora (640-4262)
531 A.I.R. (I introduced Justin to bbsing, he is neat people)
037=Usr:159 10/02/87 22:45 Msg:628 Call:4158 Lines:18
532 MUSE- which is worse, The State Of Oregon chowing down it's own toxic waste,
533 or exporting it to other states?(such as Ohio, He He)
534 I never heard of a sucessful business deliberatly wasting money forever, my
535 guess is that most of the offending businesses on pollution simply don't
536 have the information available on pollution prevention. Perhaps if you
537 exhorted people to try to work with polluters on prevention, showing them
538 how to 'save money!!', instead of trying to legislate it, there would be a lot
539 less pollution. After all, many business don't have the bucks that 3M does,
540 and I'm sure 3M spent lots before beginning to save. Pollution problems are
541 complex, and we really need to dissemiate information on the control of it.
542 Perhaps if someone formed a national informational database on suggestions
543 regarding pollution control, it would help. A typical plant manager certainly
544 is no expert on current pollution control technology, and as you know
545 it is low on the list of priorities. If he knew of where he could easily
546 go to get information to 'save money'
547 (the incidential fact that it may control pollution being secondary) do
548 you think he would ignore it?
549 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++00001TED++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
038=Usr:173 @@@@@@P[[[[[[[[[ 10/03/87 15:15 Msg:629 Call:4168 Lines:6
550 **Happy mutants for nuclear power**
551
552@ o-----\
553@ / o
554@ |
555@ \o----/
039=Usr:173 @@@@@@P[[[[[[[[[ 10/03/87 15:24 Msg:630 Call:4169 Lines:21
556
557 \|/
558 *
559 __*__
560 (o o)
561 | @ |
562 | \_/ |
563 \_____/ \|/
564 * *
565 * *
566 * *
567 ***************
568 * *
569 * *
570 * * *
571 /|\ * *
572 * *
573 <==] [==>
574 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Lord
575 Beaker \__/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
576 oo
040=Usr:173 @@@@@@P[[[[[[[[[ 10/03/87 20:01 Msg:631 Call:4171 Lines:17
577 With out toxic waist, thousands of people would be out of work.
578 -- No emergency clean up crews
579 -- No environmental crisis centers
580 -- Not half as much cancer for doctors and scientests to work on cureing
581 -- No dead animals washed up on beach shores, to be cleaned up
582 So keep up the production of toxic waist!
583
584 If you ever feel yourself swaying towards enviramentalism, call one of these
585 support groups. They want to help you!
586
587 (771) NUC-LEAR: Happy mutants for nuclear power.
588 (231) 223-xxxx: E.A. Enviraholichs Anonamiss.
589
590 Now run out there and chop down a tree!
591 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
592@list 591
593
041=Usr:174 10/03/87 23:14 Msg:632 Call:4174 Lines:28
594 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^@Rob's^^^^^^^^^^
595 TED--
596 You're on the right track!! I work with OSPIRG,
597 and the Toxics Use Reduction Act I was mentioning is the latest project we're
598 focusing on. To quote from our quarterly newsletter, CITIZEN AGENDA...
599 "The Toxics Use Reduction Act will include a statewide toxics inventory,
600 enforcement of existing anti-pollution laws, A PHASE OUT OF DANGEROUS MATERIALS
601 mandatory reduction of dangerous chemicals, and A TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
602 FOR BUSINESSES IMPLEMENTING REDUCTION PLANS."[caps are mine]
603
604
605 The whole point of the act is to find economically sound alternatives to
606 toxins in production. The industries will not be told to stop what they're
607 doing, but rather given other methods of doing it, methods that are less
608 hazardous to the environment.
609 <<<<<<<<<<<have you ever been to Newburg, OR? Have you ever quaffed the
610 water? I discourage it. We've a jar of it sitting in the office at work--
611 at the bottom of the 12oz jar sits at least a quarter inch of brown sludge,
612 resembling rust, or possible sentient swamp muck. To avoid being sued for
613 libel, I wont say where the stuff comes from. ==How about St.Helens,OR,
614 where a certain paper mill uses chlorine bleach in their bleaching process.
615 Interox America of New Jersey has substituted it with hydrogen peroxide,
616 and now works as a consultant for other companies, and helps them
617 make the switch.
618 Technical assistance programs WILL be implemented under the act.
619
620
621 I'm really not a crazy environmentalist--it's my job, and I do it the best I
042=Usr:174 10/03/87 23:51 Msg:633 Call:4175 Lines:6
622 can. I like it here, I'd like to keep it as clean and green as I poossibly
623 can. Try to understand; a MUSE must take care of her home...
624 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
625 bot
626
627@
043=Usr:7 Leonard Erickson 10/04/87 02:47 Msg:634 Call:4178 Lines:64
628 Miriam, given the choice, *I* would rather work with the chlorine! H2O2 in the
629 concentration that they are probably using is an explosion hazard! (though I
630 could be wrong).
631 As for these new processes, they may be cheaper *BUT* how much does it cost to
632 replace the existing equipment? You have to consider the fact that any portion
633 of its cost that hasn't yet been depreciated must be taken as a loss on the
634 books. The same goes for spare parts for the old equipment. And you can rarely
635 make any process change all at once. It is far too expensive to shut down the
636 entire process for several days. (you don't really think that they old machines
637 can be pulled, their *mountings* and *plumbing/wiring/etc* removed and the new
638 equipment & its plumbing/etc installed in less time than that do you?) So you
639 need suplies for *both* during the changeover. And you'll have extra costs from
640 *any* delay, as that means you'll have to put in a rush order for extra
641 supplies for the old machine. (after all, you'll have calculated them to run
642 out just when you were ready to pull it off-line)
643 And then you'll discover that even though your product is within specs, some
644 minor difference due to the process change will louse things up for your
645 customers. Then you have three choices:
646 1. find a way to make the new process duplicate this effect of the old
647 process.
648 2. go back to the old process.
649 3. lose the customer
650 Note that it may take up to a year for the customer to trace the problem to
651 your process change. This makes #2 almost impossible. And if#1 isn't possible
652 that leaves #3. And if this is a major customer, you may go out of business.
653
654 I am *not* making up any of this. These are all things that I am aware of from
655 the process engineers at work. Some of them have happened to us, some to our
656 suppliers.
657
658 By the way, have you ever priced things like that cleaning machine you
659 mentioned? Or checked delivery times? At guess, based on delivery times/prices
660 for some equipment at work, I'd guess $300-500 thousand and a year. *ANY* kind
661 of plant equipment seems incredibly expensive until you realize that most
662 industrial process equipment (as opposed to facilities equipment like pumps
663 and ventilation equipment) is rather specialized. When a piece of equipment is
664 only going to have less than 1000 copies made it costs more to produce. And on
665 top of that the research and development costs are spread over fewer units.
666 (say it cost $1 million for R&D and $500,000 for tooling & setup. That means
667 if only 1 is built, it will cost $1.5 million before you even count materials
668 and labor. If 1 million are made then it only costs $1.5 plus parts and labor)
669
670 I know that we use a number of toxic chemicals. Many of them are things that
671 you *cannot* replace with anything else. (example: HF is used for etching
672 silicon. It can't be replaced because no other chemical (except raw fluorine)
673 will attack SiO2 except under conditions that would make it useless for
674 electronics).
675 By the way, the 100 copies above is a generous estimate. We produce silicon
676 wafers. There are less than 10 companies in NORTH AMERICA that do so. Much
677 of our equipment is only of use to such companies. And we are far more likely
678 to need 10 units than 100!
679 We do use recycled chemicals *where it is possible* (after all, they cost less)
680
681 You want to know about a real toxic waste problem? We were preparing for a
682 plant expansion. Test holes were drilled to check out the soil structure. They
683 discovered that 20 years ago some companies had dumped stuff that was
684 moderately toxic (we're talking lead & coal tars, not dioxin!) and then
685 shoveled 20 feet of dirt on top. 9 years ago we bought the property.
686 We didn't put the stuff there. We can't build the expansion until DEQ & EPA
687 tell us what we should do about it. Even though it isn't our mess, we're
688 willing to fix it. It has been 2 years and they won't tell us what we need to
689 do to it. Why? Because they don't want to be responsible for the consequenses
690 if what they tell us to do causes problems later!!!!!!!
691 ___________________________Leonard_____________________________________________
044=Usr:174 10/04/87 18:02 Msg:635 Call:4189 Lines:36
692 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@Rob's^^^^
693 Leonard---
694 Yes, the EPA has really gone downhill since Mr. Reagan cut its funding...but
695 that's a whole different story...
696 I can very much understand your skepticism. I understand that some chemicals
697 really are indisposable; they're not the ones we're concerned with. It's the
698 regulation of 7 air toxic pollutants, when 196 toxic air contaminants are
699 emitted as pollution. It's the fact that communities must test for 22 types of
700 toxic chemicals to meet the minimum requirements of the U.S. Safe Drinking
701 Water Act, when more than 200 toxic chemicals have been found contaminating
702 groundwater supplies. It's the UMPROPPER disposal of
703 the nasties that get our goat up. Not all companies are causing problems-
704 Tectronix keeps very good control on the chemicals they use, and have always
705 been concerned with worker safety and toxic (pardon me while I"m distracted by
706 my kitten)control. I can't tell you exactly who is causing the trouble, partly
707 because I have not been given that information, and partly because the facts
708 aren't all in. We're currently working on finding existing toxic waste dumps,
709 finding out who did it, and requiring them to clean it up--as established by
710 the State Superfund,SB 122, which was passed by legislature last June--in the
711 last week of the session. The DEQ is taking care of this...if they don't
712 already know about your problem, by all means, tell them, and mention the
713 Superfund. They are required by las to make sure the problem is taken
714 care of.
715
716
717 AS for who will pay for changes to be made, etc. Let me look into it. I'm
718 just a lowly canvasser, but it's my understanding thet the money saved fro
719 having no messes to clean up will be spent in altering the production. Of
720 couse it's not an over night project--noone ever said it would be. Like I said
721 not all the facts are in. OSPIRG has just begun collecting the information you
722 are asking for (and they are valid points). What we need is citizen support to
723 find all these answers. (Now pardon me while I'm distracted by my pet
724 Blackwing. Figure it out!!)
725 Miriam
726 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THEUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
727
045=Usr:7 Leonard Erickson 10/04/87 20:13 Msg:636 Call:4193 Lines:21
728 Miriam: DEQ & the EPA know about the situation. They just seem to feel that
729 they can keep putting us off.
730 You see, if we leave the site "as is" it is ok. But they won't authorized us
731 to build on it nor will they tell us what needs to be done before we can build
732 on it.
733 As far as can be determined, it would appear that the only reason for this is
734 that if they tell us what to do then *they* bear the responsibility if we do it
735 and something goes wrong. I have yet to find a bureacrat who is willing to
736 get into such a situation.
737 It took them less than 6 months to determine that there is no appreciable
738 hazard from leaving the stuff in the ground (until it can be removed "someday")
739 but in the 2 years since there has been no progress towards a final solution.
740 You'd think they'd at least have some sort of preliminary plan.
741 Another problem is that when the stuff was dumped it was dumped legally! And
742 the companies that did the dumping either no longer exist or have been bought
743 out by other companies (who cannot be held liable!). So they can't just tell
744 somebody else to clean it up. (In case you haven't noticed, almost all of the
745 effort seems to go into finding a "responsible" company and making *them* pay
746 for the cleanup, if one can't be found it takes either Congressional action
747 or major publicity to get it cleaned up)
748 _________________________________Leonard_______________________________________
046=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 10/04/87 20:48 Msg:637 Call:4196 Lines:46
749 One minor correction Leonard... when a company is bought by another company,
750 It buys both the assets *and* liabilities. As long as the company charter
751 exists (and thus the company existing as an entity) it is fully liable
752 for all its past deeds as is any other entity. The only escape from
753 this that is allowed by law is bankruptcy, and even there there is no
754 escape for somethings, such as misdeeds deemed as being fruadulant
755 there is *no* escape. Who is liable for these? The board of directors
756 and owners of the company. The exact distribution of blame gets messy
757 and you need to be up on current corporate law to know what the current
758 legal definition is, but what they usually try to do is pin the blame
759 on the individuals who were "controlling" the activities of the company
760 at the time of the incident. Failing that they will without hesitation
761 transfer the blame to those *currently* in control.
762 A corporation is an entity by law, and thus is fully liable for its
763 actions. It is not possible to escape them. If the company is sold,
764 the liablities follow. If the company is disolved, the previous owners
765 still are held liable for past frauduant activities. In the case of
766 pollution I don't think we can say that there was fruad involved
767 in most cases since it was usually disposed of within legal guidelines.
768 probably in most cases they just didn't know any better. In a few others
769 they may have known better, but as long as thre was no legal requirement
770 otherwise we cannot call it fraud. So in cases where the company has
771 gone out of business there is no real recourse. But for those that
772 still exist whether they are owned by another group or not, there is
773 legal recourse that can be taken.
774 The main thing to remember here is that a corporation is considered an
775 entity. And with a few exceptions it is largely treated as one by law.
776 That means it is liable for its own actions as long as its charter exists.
777 I should also mention that just starting another company and transfering
778 everything to the new company does not void you of any of the old company's
779 liablities. The law may invalidate such transactions when they are obviously
780 made with intent to avoid liability. Again for the current determination of
781 what consitutes avoidance you would have to look into the current corporate
782 laws.
783 I agree that we seem to be spending far too much time on blame finding, but
784 then that is what our legal system is oriented around. The blame must be
785 placed against one individual and they must pay. I myself disagree with
786 this methodlogy, I have always felt that the proper solution to a problem
787 is to find the best way to correct it and find the best way to prevent
788 it happening again. But that is a much more difficult thing to do. It is
789 far easier (and more lucrative for the lawers) to use the advisarial
790 system of blame placing. Find a scape goat place the blame on him and
791 sit back all happy that the problem has been solved for today. Worry
792 about tomorrow when it comes. If it happens again all the better,
793 job security you know....
794 *************************** CM ****************************************
047=Usr:177 10/04/87 22:36 Msg:638 Call:4200 Lines:22
795 *****************************************************************************
796 "Reconciliations"
797 You find yourself outside Hell's gates
798 On Judgement Day, of all dates.
799 Murderer, rapist, comitter of vice,
800 Hell no, you weren't very nice!
801 Take a ride on a bat from Hell
802 It will guide your journey so follow it well
803 Plummet down to where Lucifer fell,
804 Where beasts most evil in darkness dwell.
805 You see your guide,
806 His head split wide,
807 Blood and brains dripping outside.
808 He beckons you near,
809 Says, "Now you fear",
810 His rotting teeth in a grin so wide.
811 "A life of sin he called his own"
812 Reads the inscription on your gravestone
813 Now quite dead is your flesh and bone
814 And you must reap what you have sown.
815
816 jcpI
048=Usr:174 10/05/87 11:24 Msg:639 Call:4204 Lines:20
817 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@Rob's^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
818 Leonard and CM(have we met?)
819 Under the State Superfund, the companies who did the dumping are responsible
820 for cleaning. If the dump is an "orphan", that is, the company cannot be
821 found, the law provides that IT WILL BE TAKEN CRE OF. Whether or not the site
822 was legal when it ws dumped, if there is a chance of it becoming hazardous to
823 the general public, it will be cleaned up. I will try to get a copy of the
824 bill and post it for you. Again, talk to the DEQ, and bring up the Superfund--
825 I'd like to here what they have to say. Get them to talk LAW.
826 <if I might ask, for whom do you work</ and who had the site previous
827 to your company? I'll do a little research...>
828 .........................................
829 Stone and Sea are deep in life,
830 two unalterable symbols of the world:
831 permanence at rest, and permanence in motion;
832 Participants in the Power that remains.
833 STeven R. Donaldson
834 Did You intend
835 that beauty and truth should pass utterly
836 fro the Earth?
049=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 10/05/87 22:28 Msg:640 Call:4221 Lines:5
837 ************************************************************************
838 MUSE: I don't think we've met, I don't remember anyway.
839 CM is short for CISTOP MIKEY. When my fingers get tired I have a habit
840 of shortening it to CM.
841 **************************** CISTOP MIKEY *******************************
050=Usr:159 10/05/87 22:47 Msg:641 Call:4222 Lines:21
842 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
843 One more word on the 'hazardous chemicals' debate,
844 Leonard, I sympathize with your companies problem. What you should have done
845 is tested, destroyed the results, then built on the land anyway. Then if EPA
846 got on your case you would be blameless because you 'didn't know' (Right?)
847 Anyway, one flaw with your logic above is this- If a governmental regulation
848 applies to all the companies in the same business (such as a requirement to
849 switch to a different chemical) then they ALL will have the same problems
850 switching over, and NONE will gain a competitive advantage. If EVERYONES
851 product is altered because of a chemical change the customer will have to
852 just 'stick it'. Anyway, we only care, in the long run, about chemicals
853 released from the plant. Personally, I don't care if you piss on your silicon
854 wafers to get them to etch-- as long as you keep the chemicals contained.
855 I suspect the only way you will ever get action out of the EPA is to
856 talk to the Governor, or your congressman.
857 One last word about pollution- let us not forget the largest polluter of
858 all, surpassing all the industries put together, NATURE.
859 Forests, oceans, deserts; they all release more particulates, odors,
860 sediment, and chemicals than any number of industries.
861 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++00000001TED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
862 off
051=Usr:21 Z0 [0 \0 10/05/87 23:06 Msg:642 Call:4223 Lines:19
863 FMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFM
864 .
865 Argh! Argh! Argh! Argh! Argh! Argh! Argh! Argh! Argh!
866 .
867 Oh, the wondrous joys of playing Larn! It's just so much fun!
868 Where else can you spend 2 hours and 45 minutes advancing your
869 character to "Warlord" level, only to have him die because he fell
870 into a "Bottomless Pit"? Oh yes, how I love Larn... Where's my
871 hammer? Oh well, I'll probably start over again in the morning.
872 .
873 To The Muse: I must protest! While I'll agree that you're young,
874 I don't think you're in "bad shape". Hope you enjoy working for
875 OSPIRG. As to your problems with the kitten and the Blackwing,
876 just give them a few good strokes and they'll calm down (well, at
877 least the kitten will, I don't know about the Blackwing). ;-)
878 .
879 Fable Master
880 .
881 FMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFM
052=Usr:174 10/06/87 11:34 Msg:643 Call:4229 Lines:65
882 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THE MUSE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@Rob's^^^^^^^
883 More info has come in:
884 MAJOR COPONENTS OF THE OREGON TOXICS USE REDUCTION ACT WILL INCLUDE:
885 ****Statewide Toxics Inventory
886 Companies will have to report the types and amounts of toxics they are
887 using and make plans for reducing their toxics use.
888 ****Tough Enforcement of Our Anti-Pollution Laws
889 Citizens an workers will have the right t monitor businesses' use of toxics
890 and their reduction plans and actions.
891 ****Phase-Out of Dangerous Toxics
892 Chemicals that couse cancer and birth defects will be phased out of use,
893 and the sale of all toxins will be taxed ti discourage use.
894 ****Mandatory Reduction of Toxics
895 Companies will be required to reduce their use of toxics to the extent
896 economically practical.
897 ****Technical Assistance
898 Programs will be established to help busineeesses who want to switch to
899 use reduction methods but don't yet have the know-how.
900 .................................
901 Does this help clear up a few points, Leonard? Hope so! I'm still working
902 on getting a copy of the Superfund, so hang tight...
903 #####CM-nice ta meecha
904 #####Fable Master-do I know you? you obviously know me, or you're just quick
905 to catch my straight lines (they were pretty obvious; hell, they ARE pretty
906 obvious!!)
907 ####The General Public-I' getting off my soap box for just a few minutes here,
908 AAUGH!! sight of relief! OOOMIGAWD, my feet are just KILLING ME!! If I don't
909 find another job soon, my legs are going to die! It ain't easy knocking
910 on the doors of apathetic, ignorant plebeans, asking for memberships. Yes,
911 I realize how that sounds, been when you're actually out diong it.. well, your
912 brain has a tendancy to get less than sympahtetic; I don't understand the
913 ladies in their 3 storie houses, driping with gold and diamonds, who don't
914 have $15 to help keep the beach outside their lovely summer house just as
915 lovely as always. IT PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHH
916 There. I feel much better now. Gotta go find semi-clean clothes, and go have
917 Lunch. Being one my self(westy lunch, that is), I try to keep those closest to
918 me as happy as I can. It's a demanding job, but someone gets to do it...
919 Heard about the now Ronald Reagan line of software?
920 It has no memory, and no matter what key you hit, the screen shows a semi colon
921
922@ x
923@ xxxxx
924@ xxxxxxxxx
925@ xxxxxxxxxxx
926@ xxxxxxxxxxx
927@ xxxxxxx
928@
929@
930@ xxxxxx
931@ xxxxxxxxx
932@ xxxxxxxxxxxxx
933@ xxxxxxxxxx
934@ xxxxxx
935@ xxx
936@ xx
937@ x
938@ xx
939@
940 Yes, boys and girls, even on an environmental kick, THE MUSE keeps right on
941 amusing--that certain select special peson. The rest of you are innocent
942 bystanders. So long for now, and be sure to take a good look at that beautiful
943 full moon; My namesake worked hard on that one!!
944 luv and tapeworms,
945 Miriam the MUSE
946 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THSE^^^^^^^^^^^@home^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
053=Usr:21 Z0 [0 \0 10/06/87 19:27 Msg:644 Call:4239 Lines:12
947 FMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFM
948 .
949 To The Muse: Yes, we have met a few times previously. Our mutual
950 friend should be able to enlighten you as to my identity. If not,
951 I'm sure you'll figure it out sooner or later...
952 .
953 Fable Master
954 .
955 Post Script: The full moon is indeed quite beautiful. I watched
956 it rise as I played Larn last night.
957 .
958 FMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFMFM
054=Usr:61 10/06/87 20:37 Msg:645 Call:4240 Lines:6
959 .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
960 Muse: I wonder which "certain papermill in St Helens" you might mean,
961 especially since there's only one. By the way, the chlorine that
962 is being used isn't the only problem that BC has with pollution: you
963 should smell the place!
964 .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.formerly of St Helens.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.Emu
055=Usr:7 Leonard Erickson 10/06/87 21:46 Msg:646 Call:4244 Lines:35
965 Muse: I have several problems with the outline you posted. It makes no
966 allowance for the case where there is no substitute for the chemical.
967 (a somewhat silly example, try baking bread that contains *no* sugar)
968 As a more concrete example, the manufacture of silicon semiconductors
969 requires the use of arsenic. Mind you, it is used in the parts per billion
970 range, but it is used. Taxes on emmisions are one on thing. Taxes on the
971 chemicals are only a way of increasing costs and thus increasing consumer
972 prices.
973 Ted: the changes I spoke of made the output of the new process *unusable*.
974 If the law mandates such a change, they will either have to make an exception
975 or the industry in question will move. Period. And if it moves, they will have
976 removed the pollution, but they will also have lost jobs and tax revenue.
977 But I was explaing why industry is so slow to adopt new processes. Nobody wants
978 to be first, due to the economic hazards. At the very least, they'll wait until
979 they are scheduled to replace they equipment anyway. (3-10 years). I've been
980 a machine operator during two *forced* processes changes. The first was due
981 to our requiring more machines, but having to get a different type because
982 the original ones were no longer made. Since we do (classified process)
983 differently than any other company, we have to run the machines differently.
984 Thus, the "new, improved" machines run at from 25-50% of the output of the
985 old ones. The other change involved going to a different type of grinding
986 wheel. It seemed to work just as well. Then we got some new gear for examining
987 the ground surface. Turned out that the new wheels kept grinding just as long,
988 but produced an out of spec surface after as little as 100 runs. (out of an
989 expected lifetime of around 100 thousand runs). With the old equipment the
990 surface appeared to be okay. By the time we found the problem we had almost
991 none of the old wheels left, and a huge non-returnable inventory of the new
992 ones. We had to use the new wheels, and since a wheel change takes 5 min plus
993 10-15 min to readjust the machine.... and then in 30 min you might have to
994 do it again... The process engineers were not popular on the floor after
995 that fiasco! (of course it wasn't really their fault). Thank god I'm out of
996 that, especially since they've had to change machines again....
997 __________________________Leonard___________________________________________
998 gee, I guess this is
999 THE END