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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ************************ INSTALLED: 10 NOV 85 ********************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION 6 PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privately owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 no restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is 10 privately owned, I retain thepright to remove any and all messages which 11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be 12 periodically purged of messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 13 to leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the 14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the 15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace 16 The line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 17 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 18 ************************************************************************* 19 20 Garsh! The top! I always wanted to be at the top of a new disk. Golly gee. 21 ************************************** 22 ************************************** 23 24 Mojo slowly turned to see it was 25 that was making such a horrible sound. 26 All Mojo could make out in the dim 27 light was a vague shadow of what 28 appeared to be an enormous creature. 29 Ignoring his fear (and his instincts) 30 , Mojo stepped toward the creature. 31 Then suddenly, with a thunderous 32 crash and a brilliant flash, the thing 33 disappeared. 34 35 Mojo froze in his tracks, his 36 mind blank. Suddenly an astonishing 37 thought permeated his conciousness. 38 39 ************************************** 40 ************************************** 41 42 43 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 44 ========================THE COUSIN==== 45 RIVERRAT (CONTS) 46 47 Thereafter, both of them seemdt r 48 about their sails. One or the othe ol 49 sailmakers shop to order work at latoc 50 became good friends, and the sailmkrwu 51 LaBones and tommaso for a flagon o ieo 52 lmaker house. The delicate-lookinglwsu 53 present, but he said very little. 54 At last came the first day of spigad 55 to celebrate the comming of warm wahr 56 arranged to meet the sailmaker andteyu 57 When the celebrating ended LaBnscn 58 unger and persuaded them all to reunt 59 hearty supper. Upon their arrival,te o 60 eck adjoining LaBones rooms. Therewswn 61 was in evidence. 62 La Bones landlord came runnin.srT 63 gone off to the festival and haventrtr 64 La Bones seemed to go into a rg. 65 "And where are the roast capons?" 66 The landlord turned pale."The i o 67 e some good fat ones, and I'll sette o 68 LaBones went stomping about th ek" 69 tard sauce I wanted from the old mre?A 70 nges I told them to buy? does no oehe 71 The sailmaker hastiley voluntee o 72 sauce and tommaso offered to go toteso 73 sold. It was all done so quicily, n aB 74 loud, that the room was cleared inmnt. 75 LaBones, suddenly calm, went oe ow 76 shrunk against the wall, and he toktes 77 ve him a passionate kiss."I have ne fe 78 difficult point of law,"he said."Yums 79 we'll discuss it." The other neite pk 80 as the door closed behine them. 81 82 =================THE REST OF THE SOYNX 83 TOM 84 S 85 [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ 86 Okay, I'm asked to back up my words. Just digging around for a few quotes on the AIDS question... but first, let me 87 remind you something. You speak of a God who is so mean he would let people die. Isn't that just cruel? Well, your minds 88 have to *expand* a little. Think! Death doesn't mean anything to God! Just to you! Why should he care if you're in a 89 bodily state or a spiritual state? He used people's deaths constantly as a source of warning to others. How about all 90 the firstborn in Egypt? Lots of lots of BABIES killed, as a very strong message? Hey I can't put myself in a position to 91 condemn him for that. How can we say He would be too cruel? Death is just a transition to him, like childhood to adult- 92 hood. 93 94 Also, naturally this question about God at least *allowing* this disease to come forth is limited to those who believe 95 in Him in the first place. Which may be few noways I admit (we've become so modern dontcha know), and old-fashioned. But 96 I guess we'll all find out sooner or later. The lucky ones will know sooner... 97 98 Anyway, how 'bout some of God's (or Jesus') feelings on the entire morality of the '80s question: 99 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultry, and he who marries a woman divorced from her 100 husband commits adultry." 101 102 "...And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to go through life maimed than with two hands 103 go to hell." 104 105 "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the son of man (the end days). They ate, they drank, they 106 married... until the day when Noah entered the ark and the flood *killed* them all... whoever seeks to gain his life 107 will lose it. But whoever loses his life will preserve it." 108 109 And think about this one: 110 "...But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet and is teaching and 111 and beguiling her servents to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent, but 112 she refuses to repent of her immorality. Behold, *I will throw her on a sickbed, and those who commit adultry with her 113 I will throw into great tribulation*, unless they repent of their doings; and I will strike her children dead." 114 115 Oh, well that's enough of that. My point is... it's very very possible. Why not? Why do we ignore it? Human nature I 116 guess, they did in Gomorrah, and in Noah's time, and we do it know. I can't obviously profess to know for a fact that 117 it's Gods punishment on the world. But for those who believe in God, take a second and think... isn't it possible? 118 119 After this, I'd love to take on you poor, near-sighted people, like Pen-Name, who are so taken up in the world that 120 they can't see the truth sitting right in front of their noses... 121 122 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ANDY ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 123 124 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 125 Andy: YOU want to talk truth?? Okay, buddy-boy, we'll talk some truth. 126 127 In the continuing days of "cristianity", we see some ludicrous, if not 128 sickening, statements and actions of hipocracy. 129 Take the mormons. The latter day saints. A religion founded mainly 130 on the position and stature of it's members in society. And I'm not 131 talking about ethical or moral standings, I'm talking about financial 132 standings, power standings, standing that, set forth in the bible they 133 follow, are abbhored. 134 But that's not the worst of it. 135 Once into this tight circle of switchbacks, they rufuse then to be 136 counted amoung the rest of society. Theirs' is a tight circle indeed. 137 The values shown in that circle, even though (and maybe especially 138 since) they practice much the same as the more established religions, 139 they hold their order to be more of a social club. 140 But wait, it gets worse, and worse. 141 This same bible is racist and malicious. This same bible teaches that 142 people, who's only "sin" is to be of another skin hue, are to be feared, 143 hated, and worst of all, refuted. Without exception. 144 145 I won't tell you what your truth should be. And in the same breath, 146 I'll tell you that you CAN'T dictate mine. Everyone to their own 147 beliefs. None good, none bad. None right, none wrong. 148 Only different. 149 PEN NAME 150 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 151 (^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^) 152 PEN NAME: 153 154 A few comments on your above speech. 155 156 First of all, about looking at christianity through the Church of Latter Day 157 Saints. The mormon religion is not one founded on christian beliefs. 158 Christians believe in accepting Christ as their personal saviour - a one on one 159 relationship. They believe in doing this through Jesus, the Son of God. The 160 mormons do not believe in this same relationship. Also, their 'bible' you 161 refer to is not the christian Bible. Oh, it certainly CONTAINS the christian 162 Bible, but there are whole BOOKS that they add to it. The new book this 163 results in is called the Book of Mormon. This is not compatible for comparison 164 with the christian Bible. 165 166 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this 167 book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues 168 that are written in this book: 169 170 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, 171 God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, 172 and from the things which are written in this book." 173 174 Also, about God being cruel to let people die. At one time man had the 175 opportunity to live forever in harmony with God; but he blew it. If God 176 wanted, he could keep us from living at all. Remember, it's MAN'S sin that 177 brought about death, not God's. 178 179 An observer 180 (^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^)(^) 181 (It sure seems interesting to me that such passions are aroused by those who don't 182 believe in God when His name his mentioned. Something like the closer to the truth... 183 the more it hurts? 184 Also, Pen Name, there IS a right and wrong. There has to be. Your belief is that 185 there is no God. You're either right or you're wrong. You'll find out when it's too 186 late to change your mind. But your near-sightedness is blatantly displayed when you 187 criticize all belief in God and Christianity through one false religion. 188 189 My neighbor is a thief, therefore my whole neighborhood is full of thieves! 190 191 And of course you cannot see, that since there is good and evil, God and Satan, the 192 latter naturally tries to cover up the truth by letting all sorts of other religions 193 come about which distort the one true faith and allow people like you to say they 194 must all be false since *that* one surely is. 195 196 <`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`><`> 197 198 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 199 It's also interesting how pasionately YOU respond when YOUR beliefs are 200 questioned. I see no real insights there other then the normal response 201 anyone gives when the basis of his or her belief is questioned by another. 202 It is a perfectly normal response and has nothing to do with the truth or 203 non truth of either party's belief structure. It is simply the passionate 204 response to the need to maintain that belief when it is questioned. 205 h"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 206 207 "When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." 208 209 Is that what you say I am doing fred? Running in circles? Screaming abnd shouting? Is that what you call 210 someone who is simply trying to spread the word about a danger we must all concern ourselves with? I was alarmed by 211 the apparent head-in-sand attitude that some people were displaying here. I am glad to see that is not the prevalent 212 attitude. You yourself entered a very thoughtful message on the subject. While the message was far longer and more in 213 depth than my initial messages, no one accused you of screaming and shouting. Please don't use that tone with me. 214 Pen Name, while I can't agree with your stands on religion, I have no quarrel with that. It was the same 215 attitude I speak of above that I saw in your words that concerned me. Apparently there are very definite opinions on 216 the subject, which is good. It shows me that people are thinking about issues that concern us all. I just cringe when 217 I hear people say 'Wait and it will go away.' Truce is fine, but I hardly think one is needed. Debates, as always, 218 raise the temperature of Backwater, but the seldom transcend (they seldom) electronic and 219 phosphorus world. 220 221 The religious debate has arisen again. Isn't it interesting how everything always returns to religion? Consider 222 this small model of the universe: 223 At the lowest level of the model there is sentient life. Simple single-celled life forms that do exist and do 224 propogate and do strive for survival. They are the base. Anything above this level is nearly uncomprehensible to those 225 at that level. Sounds simple enough? Then comes the second level. Add to sentient life mobility. Locomotion, migration, 226 movement. Most all animals are at this level. To level one creatures these creatures with mobility might seem like 227 gods, if the level one creatures could consider such a concept. And now level three. We add Reason to the model. 228 The ability to reason seperates Man from the lower animals. Men rule beasts because of reason. To these beasts, Man 229 must appear god-like. Level four encompasses all the lower levels. It adds Eternal living to Reason, Mobility, and 230 Sentient behaviour. Eternal living is the ability to live in the past, the present, and the future. You may scoff at 231 this, but who are we to say that this level does not exist as certainly as any of the lower levels refuse to 232 acknowledge or understand the higher levels? I do not submit this as the ultimate truth, but I do submit this as a 233 model to expand our own views by. If anything is can be a tool used to try and understand that there are concepts in 234 the universe that we do not understand, but that certainly does not mean the concepts do not exist as concrete fact. 235 (That should be anything it not anything is) 236 French Toast 237 __________________________________________________________________________ 238 239 Honi soit qui mal pense - Evil be to him who thinks evil. 240 Do not forget the words of Erasmus and the Enchiridion... 241 __________________________________________________________________ 242 French Toast, you have some real good points there. It also brings to mind one of the basics of the religious question: 243 creationism vs. evolution. 244 I present thus: to believe that evolution is the cause of our present condition is absolutely ludicrous. 245 Imagine, the idea of a glob of goo, or gasses, or whatever starting to form and take shape... and suddenly! A cell! 246 Now we all know cells are simple to make, so no problem for some gasses to get together and make one simple cell right? 247 248 Well, there's one thing wrong. Cells are far from simple. In fact, they're some of the most complex things in the 249 universe. 250 251 But, for arguments sake, let's assume the some cell somehow got formed from the masses and sat around waiting to meet 252 another cell similarly created by accident. Being lonely, they get together and decide to mate. This being fun, they 253 keep at it until they form a fish. 254 255 The fish gets tired of being in the water, so he crawls on land and becomes a dinosaur. Naturally this is all silly, but 256 let's find an easy way to explain it. Hmmmm... I know! Let's say it took place over a jillion years! Yes that's it. 257 Heck, if we let this rock sit here long enough chances are it will turn into something! 258 259 It's amazing how easily humans are convinced of something through repetition. We have learned about evolution, so it 260 must be true. Scientists say it's so, after all. 261 262 But look at the facts. Something had to start it. And even zillions of years cannot create sophistication in nature 263 enough to produce an animal-type organism. Look at your eyeball. A miracle of modern creation. Think all those nerve 264 endings and dazzling designs could have happened by accident? Look how complex your skin is, your hair even. What, 265 nature's animals kept getting kicked in the guts and killed off, so she decided to make rib cages to protect all the 266 vital organs? C'MON! 267 268 Give me one good argument for evolution. Find me the missing link (ever wonder why that's the ONLY one that's missing?) 269 or prove that two zillion years can create a single cell. 270 271 It's impossible. So, something had to create us. And, like French Toast said above, why should us humans feel like we 272 have the last rights to being "higher up?" 273 274 Ah, it always does come back to religion, because that is what the basis of all life is! What's more important than 275 where we'll end up spending our eternal life? Surely not next month's bill or last night's great sex? 276 277 A blink of an eye in the total look of time, and we can't stop and think about what we're going to be looking at after 278 the eye is done blinking. 279 280 Anyway, c'mon Pen Name. Tell me how we evolved, and make sense. Quadrillions of years aren't the answer either. 281 282 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ANDY ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 283 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 284 Andy: I usually stay out of these arguments, but this time, I think I'll add 285 my thoughts to the confusion. First of all, if you believe in the all 286 powerful God, how can you say that evolution is impossible? I realise 287 that "God" and "Evolution" are blaspheme in the same sentence to some, 288 but think about this: the stories in the Bible tell us that through 289 God, *anything* and *everything* is possible. For example, Christ turned 290 water into wine at a wedding; the whole world was flooded with water in 291 forty days; Lazaras arose from the dead; Moses parted the sea; and the 292 biggy for us Christians, Christ arose, as it was foretold, after being 293 creully beaten, tortured and crucified. He arose three days after being 294 placed and sealed in a tomb donated by another believer. These are hard 295 to believe, it is true, but your Bible tells us all about them. They were 296 not impossible for our God. 297 With such a record of *impossible* feats, don't you think that evolution 298 might just have a chance of happening? You must remember that the Bible is 299 MAN's *interpretation* of God's word. Man interprets everything that he sees 300 and hears, so that he can understand the world around him; then he writes it 301 all down, with whatever emotional prejudice he might have attached unknowingly. 302 Just because the Bible *says* that the world was created in six *days*, how do 303 we know that? Man wasn't created until the last day, so who told us how long 304 it took, and how sure can we be of the actual measurement of time? (By the 305 way, who wrote Genenis? I can't remember.) Could it be possible that the 306 author took a little literary license and added a little more mystery to the 307 story than was really there? How long was the story told from generation to 308 generation before it was written down? 309 As you may have guessed, I tend to believe that God created the Heavens 310 and the Earth, but not quite in the time scale suggested. As with all works 311 of Man, I take the Bible with a few grains of salt. Yes, there is much truth 312 to be found, but a lot, like any good painting, script, etc., is left up to 313 interpretation. I beleive in evolution, with God's guidence to get us over 314 the hard spots, like collecting the correct chemicals together for the cells, 315 and God's guidence to show those cells the thrill of reproduction. I agree 316 with you that with out God, Man could never have happened. But the theory of 317 evolution doesn't at all exclude God. By your own arguments (which are rather 318 week and unsubstanciated) evolution needed help, and I think that God gave it 319 the little extra umph, not to mention the original big bang to get things 320 rolling. 321 Anyway, so much for my off the cuff rambling. If you disagree with me, 322 do me the curtesy of answering one question: how can you prove to me, 323 knowing my beliefs, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that evolution is strictly 324 impossible? In the process, take my lead, and do not call me names for not 325 believing in your gospel, nor impose your truth upon mine... 326 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>...!nelsons<><> 327 328 ch beleive/believe week/weak 329 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ...etc <><> 330 <<:**********************************************************:>> 331 332 Monsieur D'Autun - Don't think that just because you're named 333 after a treacherous seventeenth century French diplomat you can 334 spread lies about me. 335 336 Spreading that ridiculous story about some looney mental health 337 professional is an outrage! It's just like you and McKane to 338 fabricate some innane story then fool people into believing it. 339 340 I think you ought to be kicked off the system for this. 341 342 John Silverman - Don't believe the Frenchman. Ask Mohammed. Ask 343 anyone. They'll tell you that he and McKane are scum. 344 345 OK now...lets get things straightened out. 346 347 I am not the pervert that they say. My thinking is merely ahead 348 of its time. A hundred years ago masturbation was treated wit 349 the same repulsion that being sexually involved with children 350 does today. 351 352 Times changed. People became more enlightened. Masturbation 353 became so acceptable that even teachers and the clergy now say 354 it's OK. 355 356 The next step in this liberalization process will be the 357 acceptance of adult/child love. The taboo against it is an 358 anachronism from a sexually repressive christian heritage. 359 360 It is a taboo that is beginning to attract public discussion. 361 Discussion is the first step to change. Within ten years the 362 acceptance of my "perversion" will be as accepted as 363 masturbation is today. 364 365 Someday even the dimmer wits at Backwater will come to 366 appreciate this. 367 368 FYI - I was impressed that you were such an expert on me. Too 369 bad you got it all wrong. 370 371 I don't upload to Backwater. I've never been able to get Vidtex 372 to do that. I do my major rough draft on a wordprocessor and 373 polish my final work as I enter it. I hate Enter On 374 doesn't allow for finishing touches. 375 376 Since when has electro shock ever been used on neurotics? I 377 know it's used for severe depression. I've never heard of it 378 being used to modify sexual preference. Where did you get your 379 information? 380 381 If you're going to play the authority you better stand by your 382 statements. 383 384 To Everybody - I know you folks don't like me much but I'd like 385 to try to appeal to your sense of justice. 386 387 There aren't very many rules on Backwater but I think it's 388 important that the ones we have be enforced. I think we 389 agree that no one has the right to do anything to destroy 390 someone elses character. 391 392 Monsieur D'Autun has written lies about me that 393 discredits anything I might say. I think you guys ought to set 394 him straight. 395 396 Frank 397 398 $#$#$#$#$#$#$##$###$#$#$$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$ 399 400 Hmmm...looks like the Grand Dragon Master is playing it to the insiders. 401 402 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 403 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp 404 Took a long time for the wheel to turn to this point again! It looks like 405 the religious debates have begun once more. Choose your side! Sharpen your 406 wits! Heeyah! Take that you infedel scum! Death to the unbeleivers! 407 I'm here to save your soul if it kills you! 408 --sigh.... 409 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp 410 Andy: I hate to burst your bubble, but getting those chemicals to start sticking 411 together in the right way is not difficult under the conditions the earth was 412 experiencing at the time. This has been demonstrated. Also, evolution is a 413 fact. It has been seen time and time again, and does not always require 414 millions of years. The instance that comes immediately to mind is the 415 Galapagos Islands. 416 417 |:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:| 418 |:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:|:-)(-:| 419 420 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 421 Well, I see that the debate has moved on to religion, not surprising, since 422 that it a component of the AIDS scare, so I'll move aside since I'm not one 423 to debate such issues. Every man to his own poison I always say.. 424 But One note to French Toast, yes, you were echoing the very hysterics about 425 AIDS that the popular media has been spewing forth. All emotional hype, and 426 no informational material to provide a base behind the statements given. 427 When I am interested in a subject, I research it a bit before echoing the 428 pronouncments of others. And when those pronouncments are "We're all gonna 429 die because you all have your heads in the sand" I tend to be a bit suspect. 430 That is the standard hysterical reaction to an unknown situation. Thus it 431 becomes even more important to study the situation to find out what really 432 is going on. So, in short, if the shoe fits, wear it. 433 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ fred +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 434 ************************************************************************** 435 Piper: it's great to see you my friend. Ill try my best to stay out of 436 this mess and start writing stories when the board turns again. 437 lurking and laughing, 438 *************************kathyD********************************************* 439 It would be nice if SOMEONE would start writing stories; anything other than 440 this off the wall reflection of Sunday morning television, halla loo ya,and all that. 441 The Center for Disease Control is not very likely to issue a press release 442 stating that AIDS has reached epidemic proportions, that they are totally helpless 443 to do anything about it (at least yet), and that if unchecked could afflict 444 hundreds of thousands (if not millions) within the next 20 years. 445 No, this isn't likely. Whether it happens to be true or not, they're not 446 gonna say (admit?) that, now are they? In other words, can we believe what they say? Or is the 447 public being kept unblissfully ignorant in the hopeof avoiding mass panic. 448 Well, I'll tell you a little story. There was ths dog, a stray, who liked to chase trains. One day he was running 449 after a diesel engine, and he got too close. The frnt wheels caught his wagging tail, and clipped the end off. 450 Well , the dog was furious, and resumed his attack with renewed vengeance, and (again) got a little too clos 451 and the rear wheels cut his head off. The moral is, naturally, don't lose your head over a piece of tail. I for one 452 ain't about to. That is the only (so far) way to combat the spread of AIDS- don't get exposed to it. There is really 453 very little else to be said untill a cure, or vaccine is developed. 454 As to this being God's way of telling 'us' someting, MOOSE HOCKEY. Religious people have made the same stupid ass 455 ertion about the flood, the plague in Europe, and aything else they can manipulate in order to instill fear into ' 456 'non believers. One more 'born again Christian= more bucks in the collection plate. [*=*] 457 ''''''''''....... 458 ......Wrong border Frank .....Let's see the last time you made a substantial 459 entry...November ....8th.....84...your sentences were longer then ...... 460 ...as was some subterfuge about ....Bill & George.....(hehheh)........ 461 ''''''''''....... 462 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 463 To Nelsons: 464 I never meant to try and prove evolution was impossible: my main thrust was to ask someone to come to me and *prove* it. 465 I said it was ludicrous to assume that all life could have evolved by itself. I will agree with the *possibility* that 466 God created us through some sort of change. I still assert that it's impossible for all life on this planet to have 467 evolved by itself. 468 469 I also agree that some forms of change have taken place. Take the horses for example. But that is a *far* cry from the 470 creation of livng beings in the first place. Heck, we're growing taller as a race because of our better nutrition. Fine, 471 changes can happen. But a billion years won't add feathers to our backs or change fish to elephants. Anyway, back to 472 the basics: someone prove to me, that pure evolution, the creation of all things, happened by accident. 473 474 And if you can't, atheists like Pen Name need to explain how we got here in our present form. 475 476 Anyway, I realize it's all rehashed stuff. But I for one am anxious for someone to prove evolution as stated above. 477 I'm not the one putting for the theory as fact, so I don't have to prove it can't be, even though it's so obvious. My 478 arguments don't have to be strong or weak, I'm just waiting for someone to offer a decent one on that lame-brained 479 theory in the first place. 480 481 And as far as God causing AIDS, well, natually I took a firm stance to evoke some opinion. My true opinion is that its 482 very possible and why not give it some thought. If there is a God, and since evolution is hardly proveable there must be 483 some infinite force, then why wouldn't he? He said he would in the Bible, he did it often in the Bible, so why do we 484 assume he'd never do it again? 'Cause he's 2000 years older and we're 2000 years wiser? 485 486 "...Let no man deceive himself. If any among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become foolish that he 487 may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God." 488 489 So, Nelsons, again, someone prove evolution to me. It's not me theory, so I don't have to disprove it. And I honestly 490 hope my writing style is not such that you would assume I would call you names because you disagree with me. Far from 491 it. I'm searching for information and putting forth questions to spark debate. To each their own, but I enjoy a brisk 492 conversation. Believing in God and evolution hand in hand is great, and I applaude you. It's the evolution-by-itself 493 that I can't understand, and I can't understand how it can be put forth as fact all on it's own. And personally, I could 494 care less if the world was made in six days or six million years. It doesn't matter. What does matter is whether you 495 believe God did it in the first place. 496 497 ]]]]]]]]]]]]] ANDY ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 498 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 499 Well, the Bear didn't know who made him or why. All he knew was that this very 500 large and very angry dragon, with his sword in its chest and a very bloody 501 eye, was in the middle of a leap toward where he crouched. He had just a split 502 second to move. His mind had registered deep within the way the dragon had 503 leaped at him the first time. Now his body would have to do the rest. 504 505 He drove himself forward as far as his aching legs could propel him. In that 506 instant the dragon was over him, in the air. But its prey was now behind the 507 fearsome mouth and the sharp claws, and was suddenly underneath its stomach. 508 509 The dragon had overshot its mark, but could do nothing about it. It plummeted 510 toward the ground, exactly over the spot where Bear's lunge had taken him. 511 It landed with a loud thud on the ground, smothering Bear completely. 512 513 All was silent for a moment. The dragon started to grin in evil delight. He 514 knew the weight of its large body would have crushed the Bear. He was slightly 515 chagrined that he would have to lick up the corpse instead of chew the meaty 516 morsels. But at least the bothersome creature was through pestering him. 517 518 But its one good eye widened suddenly. Shock seemed to fill the dragon's face, 519 and it's huge body shook. It rolled its head from side to side in silent rage, 520 its mouth gaping open and shut like a door blowing in a quiet breeze. Its eye 521 grew wider, and then began to clos e. A fury of scorching hot air escaped from 522 its mouth, and it began to twist in the throes of death... 523 524 00000000000000000000000000 THE BEAR 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 525 526 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 527 From Prometheus; Anachronism 528 On the subject of AIDS, it is obviously getting attention. Take your own 529 attention to the subject for example. It is also an edeclared epidemic, maybe 530 only be the mass media, but declared just the same. And it is ancient, even 531 as far as diseases go. And was not created in a Belgian monestary as a dooms 532 day weapon in the sexual revolution. 533 On the subject of God, if your God does cause pain to human beings, your 534 God is then a sadist. A sadistic god is a evil god, by most definitions. And 535 about the Bible and it's quotations, the Bible will mean anything it's readers 536 want it to mean. A religion is something which cannot be proved, and the 537 Bible was the Christian way of making sure Chrisitianity would never be proven 538 in the least bit. To anyone. 539 On the subject of Evolution, as a student of it who does know what Homo 540 Habilus means, along with three dozen other designations, it is scientifically 541 proven. Of course, no one is scientific enough to have it proven to them 542 scientifically so, it remains unproven. 543 Once anyone admits any changes will occur in progressive generations, they 544 must admit that more changes will occur with more generations. And those 545 changes will be different for each creature. And they must admit the theory 546 of evolution is not stupid or they risk admitting they are. 547 Creationists I have spoken to seem to think there is something about life 548 which is divine in nature. Their definition of life is diffenerent than an 549 evolutionists definition. Evolutionists I have spoken to think there is 550 chemical fact in life, and that the structure of atoms determines the 551 chemistry of life, which is a fact. 552 553 If in the course of the debate, anyone should find themselves bored, they 554 might refer to this. From the way people are talking, and the way I am 555 writing, this probably wont be read. 556 557 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 558 559 tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt 560 tilean stared at the screen... the amber glow lighting his cheeks... while 561 little frowns paled them... and a cold draft robbed them their warmth... 562 he sits there... at the screen... alone on the floor... cords stretching 563 off into the distance... the shadowy corners of the warehouse... where the 564 dreams hide until... tilean's eyes close... 565 once he thought of going home... and the thought floated away... it is 566 easier to stay... 567 tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt 568 569 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\this\whole\debate\thing\is\BORING!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\markmarkmark\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 570 .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.I.agree.-.-.boring.-.-.-.-.Emu.-.-.-. 571 Look above, a flock of ostrich^ 572 573 fred, you continue to amaze me. If my small messages are considered panic fed 574 by you, I guess there is no further sense in talking to you. Go back and read the messages if you have such ability. 575 Don't just look at the words, READ them. There is a big difference between opening a discussion and starting a panic 576 about one. Oh, but Paul Revere was hysterical too, wasn't he. Forgive me for stepping on thy over-sensitive toes fred. 577 You obviously have a great deal to lose, c'est vrai? 578 579 Ah, Frank, you are really slipping now. Different boarder (Grand Dragon Master's), different margin, and different 580 style with use of smaller paragraphs similar to, oh well you know who. But this was always a mixed-up crazy world, 581 where a single person can create so many diverse personalities, and then have those personalities get in fights with 582 each other. As the world is old so is this technique. Like an honored statesman is gathers respect as time goes by. 583 Very clever Frank, but perhaps you don't give dear FYI their due credit. Would you have suddenly popped on on this 584 system if all he had written was true. Could you get away with a simple, "Ya, FYI is right." How boring if the truth 585 told be the only thing told. I say that FYI managed to get you to re-appear, and in that respect he done good. Strike 586 him down, show your teeth, for you certainly have a full set, but according to that other Frenchman he was right on 587 the mark. Anyway, so good to see you back. One never knows how much they miss someone until they go away. 588 French Toast 589 __________________________________________________________________________ 590 Taking a cue from our own _Leonard_, I would like to enter the following... 591 592 The BANZAI INSTITUTE is pleased to announce that is is now 593 accepting applications for membership in 594 THE BLUE BLAZE IRREGULARS 595 The official Buckaroo Banzai fan club 596 597 In the continuing tradition of the Institute, membership in the Blue Blaze 598 Irregulars is free of charge. All you need to do is write us a letter saying 599 that you are interested in becoming a member of Buckaroo's ever-growing 600 network of assistants. 601 BLUE BLAZES will receive an initial membership packet, the Banzai Institute 602 newsletter, and bulletins regarding special events of interest to the members 603 of Team Banzai. The Institute will also help make available the photographs 604 and other Team Banzai items you've been looking for. If you would like to 605 receive exclusive information about Buckaroo Banzai, the Hong Kong 606 Cavaliers and the filmmakers they chose to tell their story, then write 607 today to: 608 THE BANZAI INSTITUTE 609 c/o 20th CENTURY FOX 610 P.O. BOX 900 611 BEVERLY HILLS, CA 90213 612 613 Remember, only the BLUE BLAZE IRREGULARS can help Buckaroo Banzai take on 614 the World Crime League! 615 .............................................................................. 616 :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I :-I 617 (I know I shouldn't get into this mess, but...) 618 Andy: Just wanted to make a few comments on your evolution arguments. First, 619 I would like to ask where you got the idea that cells practice sexual 620 reproduction. Cells are asexual and reproduce by fission. Therefor, 621 if one cell is created, it does not need another one to "mate" with. 622 Second, as to the rib-cage, it probably evolved due to something called 623 survial of he fittest. A life form with a rib-cage has a much better 624 chance of surviving that one without. If an animal is produced with a 625 rib-cage, it has a better chance to survive. Now, how did this rib-cage 626 come about? By mutation. One of the lastest suggestions about the 627 causes of these mutations is that they are caused by solar-radiation 628 effecting the developing life form. Out of space, sorry folks. :-I Max TOTAL NUMBER OF LINES = 628