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LIST FILE ON MARGIN IS 76 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 629 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ************************ REMOVED: 7 DEC 83 ************************* 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ============================================== 24 25 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 26 27 Well good patrons ......... 28 as of yet I have not seen any comments or suggestions for a place to 29 congregate for the NON-PIZZA party..... 30 has the interest vanished in that pursuit ??????????????????????????????? 31 32 33 Do we have any volunteers to coordinate this venture ????? 34 35 ::::::::::::::::::Alex ( very tired )::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 36 Here's one vote for Hayden's Island--but tell us how to get there, Alex! 37 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 38 In reply to Leonard and Mikey, I'd like 39 to make a few observations. Leonard 40 seems to have a propensity to cite 41 "official" sources for his data, like 42 retired military officers and Congres- 43 sional hearings. Some one a while back 44 this board said 1984 was completely off 45 for our situation. Official sources 46 gave us an excellent example of NEW- 47 s 48 SPEAK during the invasion of Grenada. 49 Reagan and UN Ambassador were for 50 calling the invasion a "rescue mission" 51 while reporters were banned from the 52 island. There has been a virtual 53 blackout of news from Grenada on how 54 Reagan's installed gov't is restoring 55 "democracy", altho we do know that 56 public meetings are banned, arrest with- 57 out warrants are allowed and there is 58 press censorship. Also Reagan calls 59 the Marines in the Middle East 60 "peacekeepers." Ronald Reagan is the 61 perfect president to take us into 1984 62 with his public relations and acting 63 abilities bent toward telling us that 64 war is peace, freedom is slavery and 65 ignorance is strength. To the person 66 who said 1984 didn't apply, when did 67 you last say something contrary to the 68 government position, try to really 69 exercise freedom of press and speech? 70 You won't find out how free or unfree 71 you are until you have to exercise 72 those freedoms. Then you will find 73 them under attack and limited unless you 74 have a lot of money and are saying the 75 approve things. 76 One other item. Recently Reagan held 77 a little ceremony to award Richard 78 Helms the National Security Medal for 79 "exceptional meritorious service". 80 Helms was head of the CIA when the 81 democratically elected government of 82 Salvador Allende of Chile was 83 overthrown. Helms was thrown out of 84 office because he wouldn't reveal even 85 to Congress the involvement of the CIA 86 with the overthrow. The CIA funneled 87 $8 million and other resources into the 88 overthrow. Helms said at the ceremony 89 that he felt exonerated and observed 90 that the CIA didn't really have any 91 political constituency, that it was 92 either protected by the presidency or 93 it wasn't and that the temptation to 94 use covert operations in a democratic 95 country was a "dilemma." 96 As I said, Reagan is a great one to 97 take us into 1984. And I'm not 98 99 surprised that Sagan is "refuted" at 100 Congressional hearing by "experts." 101 102 +-+-+-+-+-+-+ BLUE COLLAR +-+-+-+-+-+-+- 103 104 Agreed. If "experts" are to be quoted, we should hear who these experts are. 105 If "high officials" are used to refute or support a statement, how can we 106 accept the comments if we can't verify to our own satisfaction the qualifi- 107 cations of the un-named "officials"? I can make any statement I want if I 108 can use quotes from "experts" that only exist in my imagination and don't 109 have to supply any more information. Actually, I have it on high authority 110 from a knowlegeable expert at NASA that the moon is made of green cheese, 111 and the entire space program has actually been a lie, all the films, pictures, 112 et cetera, were shot in a secret studio in Los Gatos, California. He also 113 told me that John Kennedy is actually alive and living in sin in Bolivia 114 with Amelia Earhardt, Judge Crater, and Adolf Hitler. And I've proven this 115 by quoting an expert, so nyah, nyah, nyah! 116 117 (me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me)(me) 118 HEE HEE HO HO HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!a!! 119 **************************************************************** 120 **BILL THE CAT LIVES** !!!!!!!!! 121 122 ******************FROM: THOSE WHO KNOW****************************************** 123 124 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 125 We sailed away. We walked two 126 thousand miles and then we slipped 127 away. We looked so hard, but couldn't 128 seem to find just what the world was 129 for. Now we know just what the journey's 130 for. 131 132 Looking out to the stars. Think about 133 what you are. Whay 134 Looking out to the stars. Think about 135 what you are. What do they think of you? 136 Animals in thier zoo. Thay haven't got the 137 time. Landing is not on thier minds. How 138 do we have the nerve? We're animals in 139 preserve. 140 141 They watch us all. They're only making 142 sure that we don't trip and fall. They 143 look so hard. Bbut they can't tell us why 144 they're here and just what for? Becuase 145 they don't know who opened up the door. 146 147 How can we find out more? Who owns 148 the keyless door? Where does the circle 149 end? Who are the unwatched men? Where do 150 we go from here? Faith is a fading fear. 151 Life is a waiting room. I hope they don't 152 call me soon. 153 154 How much more do you reink you 155 know than a lover does about who's behind 156 the door? 157 158 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MERLYN<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 159 160 OF 161 162 list 163 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''````````````````````````````````````````````` 164 Who says their (we or whomever) are making warrantless arrest in Grenada? 165 Why not a rescue mission, would rather they share your privelege of speach or 166 the privelege of legance to a military power? 167 168 Why would anyone that does not use his own name wish to meet with others for 169 food. Will all where masks? 170 171 George Lurker 172 ````````````````````````````````````''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' 173 [][][][][][][][][][][][] 2146 12/1/83 [][][][][][][][][][] 174 175 Preposterous !!!!! 176 Los Gatos is not big enough to support such an operation. 177 Perhaps in San Jose, where they have the dirigible hangers for the 178 wide shots ? 179 180 PAM: Check after sunday next, I will have some new DLs. 181 182 [][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 183 184 185 186 Hey there, 187 I decided to turn on the ol' modem and give you guys a call, 188 since I seemingly dropped out of sight to go to Western 189 Washington University in Bellingham. (Steve Neighorn, take 190 note. How's your Mod I?) 191 But alas, phone rates are heavy this time of night, so I think 192 I shall leave you with this: 193 194 Never mind. 195 -Andy Gillcrist, 2243 12/1/83- 196 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 197 198 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 199 HEY! Somebody else used my boarder. Isn't anything sacred anymore! 200 OK Leonard...I have a question for you. Where did you get this weapon's effect 201 chart you speak of? One the subject of civil defense. I have been privy to 202 a certain amount of local civil defense, through a former civil defense 203 worker, who now works for another department in the city of Portland. Let me 204 clarify this source by saying I did not make this up(what in the hell would 205 I have to gain?), he is not a disgrunteled employee, and if you don't believe 206 what I am saying, that's your business. But damnation I get sick of people 207 who go "nay nay nay"! Anyway, the state of Portland's civil defense 208 readyness is a sad state of affairs indeed. Rocky Butte, which has a semi 209 complete complex built for city 'officials' has fallen under heavy budget 210 setbacks. It seems like the people who make the desicions on where the money 211 goes don't really care about 'the day after'. One thing I thought was funny 212 in 'TDA', is that the prez survived, of course. It kind of reminds me of 213 'Dr. Stranglove' when Peter Sellers is telling the other generals about how 214 desirable life underground in bunkers would be, especially when he started 215 telling them how they would have to re-populate the earth. Back to the subject, 216 food stores that are supposed to be kept up in and around the city have been 217 for the most part abandonded. City Civil Defense now consists of a small 218 office staffed by a few people who are probably kept on for the sake of 219 politics. In essence, there is NO organized civil defense. It will be everyone 220 who is left for him or her self. I am not saying I condone the actions of some 221 of the survivalists, but I think I can see their point of view. Imagine a 222 nuclear war sans 'Nuclear Winter'. A few survivors head out on hwy 26 in search 223 of a better place than the gutted city. In Eastern Oregon they encounter a 224 group of well-fortified building(well fortified enough to keep people like 225 these out). These people are hungry, and desperate. They will of course try 226 to get into these buildings. They will act like animals. Look at the cabbage 227 doll incidents. The survivalists inside the building had enough thought to prepa 228 re for the worse. They have food, water, supplies, and yes, ammunition, to keep 229 out city dwellers from taking what isn't theirs. Total anarchy. If nuclear 230 war is going to be like 'TDA', the survivalists will be the only survivors. I 231 imagine I'll get quite a few negative responses to this, but I guess that is 232 the price for expressing your opinion. Take it away Leonard and others... 233 |||||| 234 PS To Jody. I'll talk to you more at the party. See you then! 235 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 236 RE: TDA 237 238 "TO BE OR NOT TO BE, THAT'S THE QUESTION" 239 *********THE CRUSIFIER******************************************* 240 **************************************************************************] 241 ---------------------------------------------------------------- 242 LUKE: MATBE YOU WILL AND THEN AGAIN MAYBE YOU WONT. WE'LL HAVE TO SEE 243 THEN. I THOUGHT IT WAS A LITTLE JUVINILLE TO BE GOING 'NYAH NYAH NYAH' 244 MYSELF BUT IT WAS A LITTLE FUNNY. DON'T YOU HAVE A SENCE OF HUMOR?? 245 (no, I didn't think so.) 246 247 ----------------------------------------JODY------------------------------------ 248 249 Luke --- you're just a little off on your reference 250 to a civil defense hide out for city officials at 251 Rocky Butte. It was actually built at Kelly Butte 252 back in the bomb shelter '50s. And rather than having 253 fallen into a state of disrepair, it has been converted 254 to the communications center for city & county police 255 and ambulance dispatchers, so it's really not being 256 put to an unsuitable use. 257 258 Historically, Portland had one of the bigger civil 259 defense programs -- with the sirens that went off 260 every noon and kids in schools having practice drills 261 putting their heads under the hands (honest!). There was even 262 at one time an evactuation of the city the was given 263 national news coverage, but only because it created 264 a massive traffic jam. 265 266 Portland had, and probably still has, a system of 267 controlling the traffic lights, so that all the 268 outward bound signals can be locked on green while 269 all cross traffic is locked on red. It once was 270 tripped accidentally during morning rush hour and 271 was great for those coming from Gresham to Portland 272 but lousy for those trying to go up 39th. 273 274 Civil defense was dealt a resounding death blow in 275 Oregon in about 1962 (or '63). That was the year of 276 the Columbus Day storm. It wiped out all power in Portland 277 and Salem and completely blocked all vehicular traffic 278 because of downed trees. People assumed this was a 279 classic "civil" defense scenario, even though it 280 was not nuclear. They expected the large civil 281 defense operation to organize relief, to coordinate 282 emergency measures, to broadcast information, etc. 283 None of it happened. Relief came from the people 284 themselves, the city governments, and the utility 285 companies primarily. Civil defense was widely 286 criticized afterwards and never again was able to 287 justify budgets as big as what they had previously 288 gotten. 289 290 The feeling seemed to be, if they couldn't handle 291 a wind storm they probably wouldn't be a lot of 292 help in a nuclear attack. 293 294 - POPS - 295 296 ********************************************************** 297 Blue Collar: I didn't give the officer's name because I am still trying to find 298 the magazine the interview was in (ya see it's like this... I get about 12 299 different magazines every month. I only have "proper" files for 4 of them. The 300 rest are all stacked in corners etc. I AM LOOKING. When I find it I will not 301 only give his name, I will give DIRECT QUOTES.) 302 303 As for the Weapons effect Charts, part was from an article on the Plowshare 304 program, part was from a Nuclear war simulation & part was from other sources 305 I had notes from the other sources on the back of the weapons effect chart from 306 the simulation. If you wish I can see about getting the "official 307 charts", but it may take some time. (while _I_ am quite confident that my 308 figures are within a factor of 2, I can see that _YOU_ might have some doubts). 309 To avoid argument YOU had better tell ME what sources you will accept for the 310 data! There are a couple of Army field manuals I intend to order anyway that may 311 fit the bill. 312 Here is a partial refiguring of the causualty radius for that 4 Gigaton Blast. 313 Since NO chart I have ever seen goes that high I will use the square cube law to 314 extrapolate from an existing chart. 315 4 Gigaton = 4 Million Kilo 316 so by square cube law effects of a 4 Gton blast will be 100 times those of a 317 4 kton. According to FM 101-31-1 (Staff Officers' Field Manual Nuclear Weapons 318 Employment Doctrine And Procedures) Appendix E (Analysis of freindly Vulner- 319 ability) a 3 kton blast will cause 5% causualties among troops in the open at a 320 range of 2000 meters, a 5 kton at 2500 meters. Lets say a 4 kton will do it 321 at 2250 meters. Okay, 2250 x 100 = 225000 meters or 225 kilometers(!). Gee, I 322 maybe I did drop a decimal! However that cavity size figure was based on a 323 Plowshare test and still stands! 324 Note by the way that the "5%" distance for a 1 kton blast is 1200 meters, but 325 for a 1 Mton blast is 23,000 meters (seems to go up faster than 326 square cube but slower 327 than inverse square? hmmm.) The increase varies from 19.16666 for exposed 328 personnel to 3.125 for tank crews. (quick, where can I get a tank!) 329 Luke: (I think) I am all to well aware of the state of Civil Defense. Another 330 problem related to the ones you mentioned is that what few funds ARE 331 appropriated are usually diverted to "more important" needs. 332 ALL: When buying "survival" books - WATCH OUT- I have one book I paid $5-10 333 for (don't remember exact amount) 1/3 of it is reprints of old CD do-it-yourself 334 shelter plans (many of which say "Kit # XYZ, see your local hardware store to 335 order" of course no one has produced the kit in 15 years but...) 336 Much of the rest turns out to have been copied word-for-word from government 337 publications. If I'd looked thru it carefully BEFORE I bought it 338 I wouldn't have. (the documents in question MIGHT have cost me $2.00) 339 So, just as with anything else check it out THEN decide. 340 Finally, as to that 20 Mton blast someone was saying Portland is due for. Here 341 are some figures FOR A 20-MEGATON BLAST from that book. 342 Zone A-Complete destruction 5 miles 343 Zone B-Buildings are so badly damaged that they must be demolished and replaced. 344 10 miles 345 Zone C-Buildings must be vacated for repair 15 miles 346 Zone D-Buildings can be used while being repaired 20 miles 347 (the above followed square cube EXACTLY when I checked ie for a 20 kton 348 divide all the figures by 10) 349 Thermal effects (from an airburst on a CLEAR DAY)(fat chance of THAT in Portland 350 28 miles-3rd degree burns 32 miles-2nd degree burns 44 miles-1st degree burns 351 (1st degree burns are your basic sunburn)(divide ranges by 20 for effects of 20 352 kiloton blast) 353 Ionizing Radiation 354 2.3 miles 1000 roentgen (you'll be sick within an hour almost certainly die) 355 2.6 miles 300 roentgen (sick within the day, 20% deaths within 2-6 weeks, 356 survivors convalescent for 3 months) 357 3.2 miles 30 roentgens (no obvious effects, possible long term effects) 358 (since 5 miles is the "total" destruction radius, I think we can safely ignore 359 the non-fallout radiation.) 360 excerpted from Nuclear Survival by Everett Moore 361 (some comments added by me) 362 _______________________________Leonard__________________________________________ 363 364 Anybody know where I can get the new Vietnamees cookbook 365 "1001 Ways to Wok Your Dog?" 366 ------------------------- 367 88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 368 [][][][][][][][][][] 1154 12/2/83 [][][][][][][][][] 369 LEONARD: (OR ANYONE) Do you know where I can find a copy of level 7 ? Not 370 the Library, and not a new bookstore. Powell ? Do they have a cat. system? 371 372 thanks. 373 374 [][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 375 376 377 378 379 ************************************************************* 380 381 Dear Mr. FORREAL: 386 387 Upon receiving your slanderous attacks upon the character of 388 myself and my friends I chose to limit my participation in 389 this august forum. 390 391 I assumed, apparently wrongly, that in my enthusiasm for the 392 potential of this novel form of expression I had violated 393 some unexpressed taboo. I waited for you to offer some 394 inspiring example of the appropriate high quality entry 395 you so arrogantly demand. None was forthcoming. 396 397 I tire of my vigil. If you don't offer some example of your 398 brillance soon I have no alternative but to write you off as 399 a fool. 400 401 402 Cordially 403 404 LeRoy McKane 405 Computer Club President 406 Oregon State Penitentiary 407 408 409 ************************************************************** 410 411 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' 412 416 417 LEONARD: IF WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE BLOWN UP ANYWAY WHAT 418 DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE HOW BIG THE RESULTING HOLE WILL BE? 419 420 421 '''''''''''''''''''''''''GROUND ZERO ZACHERY''''''''''''''' 422 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 423 WELL NOW! 424 425 I VOTE FOR THE PLACE ON HAYDEN ISLAND. THE BUS GOES TO VANCOUVER AND STOPS, 426 I THINK, AT HAYDEN ISLAND. WHY DON'T THOSE FOR WHOM THIS IS A CONCERN CALL 427 THEM AND FIND OUT. THEN THOSE OF US WHO WILL BE DRIVING CAN ARRANGE TO GIVE 428 LIFTS IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THAT. THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A REAL 429 PROBLEM, I THINK. 430 431 I GUESS THIS SATURDAY IS OUT. HOW ABOUT NEXT SATURDAY? THE OTHER PLACES 432 THAT WERE MENTIONED ARE TAVERNS AND BARS AND THUS DO NOT FIT THE BILL FOR 433 ALL OF US. LETS DO IT BEFORE IT SNOWS. ALSO RE: DOM. I'D LIKE TO WAIT 434 TOO BUT SUSPECT HE HAS CHANGED HIS NOM-DE-TERMINAL. ALSO RE: LEADERSHIP. 435 THIS PARTY WAS MY IDEA AND I AM DOING WHAT I CAN TO CONTINUE TO PRESS THE 436 ISSUE BUT YOU ALL ARE NOT EXACTLY THE AVERAGE WELL ORGANIZED HERD, YOU 437 KNOW. 438 439 PAM, MIKEY, LEONARD. WILL RESPOND LATER TONIGHT TO REQUESTS FOR INFO/DOUBTS 440 ABOUT MY SANITY ETC. HAVE JUST RECEIVED CALL FROM STRANDED PERSON NEEDING 441 RIDE AND MUST GO NOW. 442 443 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PARTY'N MARTY HROTHGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 444 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 445 446 Good Sir < Hrothgar > 447 You are officialy nominiated by my-self to coordinate this conclave 448 of Poets & Warriors . 449 450 To get to MT Bottle & Deli - From Portland 451 452 I-5 North .... take first right off F-way on Hayden Isl. ( the only 453 one ) ....then next right ( Tomahawk Dr. ) then next right ( parall to 454 I-5 you should be headed south by now ) follow the road around under the 455 bridge take your first right ( into parking lot ) 456 And ....... there it is. 457 458 on your left ..Cal-Marine on your right Ye olde State booze shoppe 459 460 :::::::::::::::::::::::Alex:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 461 Did anyone else receive the nice letter from U.S. Bankruptcy Court announcing 462 November 18 protection of JRT Systems (the Pascal rascal) under Chapter 11? 463 Ah, mail order...Dave 464 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 465 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 02 Dec 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 466 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19:35 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 467 Bravo, Hroth & Alex! Not only have we a willing leader; we have 468 established the place for this motley crew to converge upon--what, next 469 Saturday? I have no quarrel with that--but lets take a quick survey. 470 All in favor raise your hand! Okay, all opposed must bellow "Nay!" 471 at the extremity of your lungs so we all can hear you. There, did 472 YOU hear anything? Neither did I; so Saturday December 10th it is! 473 (No? Better speak up fast, and address our local Colonel with your 474 appeal, for I, for one, have had enough of this hemming & hawing!) 475 Regarding the discontented murmering over whatever subject is 476 prevailing, I ask the complainers to consider the effect of their 477 grumbling: if your intent was to stifle all controversy, all lively 478 discussion, its effective! But tell me, O negative voices, why you 479 come to the Inn? Surely it is not for the good ale, or the crackling 480 fire that once burned in the hearth? You do not come to enjoy the 481 silence, do you? Yet your dissent has caused the friendly roar to 482 wither to the state it is now: a few antagonists argue fiercely in the 483 corner; haphazard pieces of song trail out of a figure who wandered in 484 out of the rain; a joke causes a brief ripple of laughter...but for 485 the most part, the patrons sit in glum solitude... 486 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 487 HAY YOU GUYS (GIRLS INCLUDED)! HOW DOES ONE GO ABOUT JOINING 488 THE CONVERSATION? I GOT YOUR NUMBER FROM A FRIEND WHO IN TURN 489 GOT IT FROM A FRIEND, ETC, ETC. ANYHOW, I'M ANDRE BJORNSKOV 490 IN LAKE OSWEGO, AND I7LL CALL IN FROM TIME TO TIME, TO KEEP 491 ABREAST OF THE WAR! I WOULDN'T MIND JOINING EITHER. 492 THANKS, ANDRE. 493 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 494 WELL NOW! 495 496 O.K., THIS IS IT - SATURDAY, DECEMBER 10, THE M.T. BOTTLE&DELI !!! 497 ABOUT 2PM WOULD GIVE US TIME TO GET BACK FROM CHURCH, WORK OFF OUR 498 FRI NITE HANGOVERS OR WHATEVER, WOULD IT NOT? THIS WILL BE THE OFFICIAL 499 BWMS PARTY DATE AND TIME. 500 501 MIKEY: COULD YOU PLEASE PUT THIS DATE&TIME INTO THE DISK HEADER FOR A WHILE? 502 503 PAM: ...hrothgar, taking the throne,led 504 the danes to such glory that comrades and kinsmen 505 swore by his sword, and young men swelled 506 His armies, and he thought of greatness and resolved 507 to build a hall that would hold his mighty 508 band, and reach higher toward heaven than anything 509 that had ever been known to the sons of men. 510 And in that hall he'd divide the spoils 511 of their victories, to old and young what they'd earned 512 in battle, but leaving the common pastures untouched, and 513 taking no lives. The work was ordered, the timbers tied 514 and shaped, by the hosts that Hrothgar ruled. It was 515 quickly ready, that most beautiful of buildings, built 516 as He'd wanted, and then He 517 whose name was obeyed all over the earth named it 518 Herot 519 520 this is a guy who knew how to party. 521 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 522 P.S. HAVE SPENT LAST 2 HOURS LOOKING THROUGH MAGAZINES FOR 4000 MEGATON 523 REFERENCE WITH NO LUCK YET. MUST NEXT GO TO GARAGE. AM MAKING HONEST EFFORT. 524 HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT MY MEMORY ON THIS ONE THOUGH AS ARTICLE WAS LENGTHY 525 AND REITERATED THE PARTICULARS A NUMBER OF TIMES. MOST NOTABLE WAS RUSSIAN 526 BOAST THAT THEY COULD HAVE MADE IT MUCH BIGGER BUT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN 527 POINTLESS. NOTE THAT THIS EXPLOSION WAS REPORTED AS HAVING BEEN RECORDED 528 IN THE WEST. ALSO, SIZE OF HOLE MADE IS FRUITLESS SPECULATION AS THE 529 DEVICE WAS SET OFF ON OR IN A MILE THICK ICE SHELF. THIS WOULD JUST FILL UP 530 AND FREEZE AGAIN. AS FAR AS CREATING A VOLCANO IS CONCERNED, THE THING 531 WOULD FIRST HAVE TO PUNCH THROUGH A MILE OF ICE, A COUPLE MORE OF WATER, 532 AND FORTY MILES OF ROCK TO DO THAT, AS WELL AS HAVING TO BE SET OFF OVER 533 A UPWELLING CONVECTION CURRENT, I SHOULD THINK. ALSO NOTE THAT SHAPED 534 NUCLEAR CHARGES ARE POSSIBLE. 535 AS TO THE SIZE OF CHARGES TO BE USED, WE OUGHT TO NOTE AGAIN ANOTHER 536 REASON WHY THE RUSSIANS USE BIGGER ONES THAN US. THAT IS THAT THE RUSSIAN 537 CITIES ARE MORE SPREAD OUT THAN OURS. WE CONSEQUENTLY HAVE A STRATEGY 538 BUILD AROUND A GREATER NUMBER OF SMALLER WEAPONS INTENDED TO BLANKET 539 AN AREA. ON THE OTHER HAND, AMERICAN CITIES ARE NICELY CONCENTRATED, AND 540 MAKE EXCELLENT TARGETS FOR WEAPONS IN THE 10-100 MEGATON RANGE. 541 HOW ABOUT THIS GAME: LETS CALL IT "FRY AMERICA" 542 THE GAME BOARD IS 2000 BY THREE THOUSAND MILES. THE SQUARES ON THIS BOARD 543 ARE 25 MILES ON A SIDE. AT THE CORNERS OF EACH SQUARE, 25 MILES APART, 544 DROP AN H-BOMB. THIS WILL REQUIRE LESS THAN 10,000 BOMBS. THE FURTHEST 545 AWAY FROM A BOMB ANY INHABITANT CAN GET WILL BE AT THE CENTER OF A SQUARE. 546 THIS DISTANCE IS GIVEN BY THE HYPOTENEUSE OF TWO SIDES OF THE SQUARE, THE 547 RESULT DIVIDED BY TWO. AT THE CENTER OF THE SQUARE WE FIND THAT WE ARE 548 SURROUNDED BY FOUR NEARBY NUCLEAR EXPLOSIONS, AT A DISTANCE OF 549 17 2/3 MILES. GETTING A LITTLE WARM OUT HERE, ISN'T IT? THEN THERE ARE 550 VISIBLE IN THE FURTHER DISTANCE 10 MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AT THE NEXT 551 FURTHER OUT INTERSECTIONS OF THE GRID. WEATHERS GETTING POSITIVELY 552 BEASTLY, ISN'T IT. 553 SOMEONE TELL ME HOW YOU CAN FIND A LIVING THING LEFT IN THE U.S. 554 (OR USSR) AFTER THAT GAME HAS BEEN PLAYED. 555 NOTE THAT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF WEAPONS ON BOTH SIDES IS OVER 556 TWICE THE NUMBER REQUIRED FOR OUR GAME TO BE PLAYED ON BOTH CONTINENTS. 557 SO EACH SIDE COULD LOSE MORE THAN FIFTY PERCENT OF THE WEAPONS AND STILL 558 PLAY A COMPLETE GAME. 559 QUESTION #1: WHAT IS THE TEMP. AT THE CENTER OF THE SQUARE. 560 QUESTION #2: HOW MUCH OF THE OXYGEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE WILL BE CONSUMED 561 IN THE COMBUSTION OF ALL THE HYDROCARBONS (INCLUDING US) ON THE 562 SURFACE OF THE TWO NATIONS (AND EUROPE) 563 QUESTION #3: WHAT QUANTITY OF DUST, SMOKE, ETC WILL BE IN THE ATMOSPHERE 564 AFTER THE EXPLOSIONS. 565 QUESTION #4: GIVEN THAT QUANTITY, AND THE DATA THAT THE ERUPTION OF 566 KRAKATAU IN 1883 EJECTED ~20 CUBIC KILOMETERS OF ASH WHICH 567 RESULTED IN LOWERING TEMPERATURES ~1 DEGREE FOR MONTHS AFTERWARD, 568 AND GIVEN THAT MEASUREMENTS OF OTHER VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS YIELD 569 SIMILAR AND FAIRLY CONSISTANT FIGURES OVER THE LAST 100 YEARS FOR 570 VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS (SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN 11/83, "THE ERUPTION OF 571 KRAKATAU", P 172) (WHEW!) 572 573 WELL THEN: HOW COLD WILL THE ASHES GET? (OR MAYBE, HOW COLD WILL THE 574 TAHITIANS GET) 575 576 MAYBE THE HEAT IS EASIER TO CALCULATE? LEONARD? 577 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 578 I volunteer to do the calculations of the freeziness caused by a massive 579 nuclear exchange. First, as I recall, there are about 50,000 warheads in the world. Assume that the average size is 580 1 Mton (this is probably an over-estimate), so the total amount of explosive energy is 50 Gtons. Now, as I recall from 581 somewhere, for every equivalent kton of blast there will arise .5 ktons of crud into the atmosphere in a ground burst. 582 So we can assume that a complete, 100% effective set of ground bursts will result in 25Gtons of stuff in the air. 583 And 25 Gtons is 2.3 E13 kilograms, or if you assume an average specific gravity of 3.5, then an equivalent volume of 6.5 E9 584 cubic meters, or 6.5 cubic kilometers, which would be about 1 cubic mile of debris. If Krakatau spat out 20 cubic kilometers, 585 this is three times my crude estimate. Since the figure quoted above indicated a lowering of temperature of 1 degree for 586 Krakatau, a total nuclear exchange might result in .3 degrees. 587 I realize that I've probably ignored something here, like the particulate size, effectiveness of dispersion, etc, but it 588 seems that perhaps the problem isn't quite as bad as some have said. 589 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::: 590 What is the effect on the temperature of the Portland City Council 591 chambers when Hizzoner Chicken Lips Ivancie spouts oral volcanic ash? 592 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 593 #=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= 594 NULEAR WAR.. WHAT A BORE! WHY DON'T HIPPIES TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF 595 THE SONG LYRIS I WRITE ON HERE. THEY AREN'T JUST TO TAKE UP SPACE YOU FOOLS! 596 THEY HAVE DAMN GOOD MESSAGES IN THEM IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO READ THROUGH 597 THEM. LIKE THE ONE ON 'DB'. ITS ABOUT FIGHTING. IDON'T BE SO LIMITED IN YOUR 598 OPINIONS. PULL YOUR HEADS OUT AND LOOK FOR SOMETHING CREATIVE TO SAY. DON'T 599 USE THE PARTY AS AN EXCUSE TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE SAID SOMETHING DIFFERENT 600 EITHER. ALL THAT LEADS TO IS SELF GRATIFICATION. ALTHOUGH THAT IS WHAT MAKES 601 THE WORLD GO AROUND YOU DAYDREAMERS MUST HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO DO IN YOUR 602 SPARE TIME THAT DEBATE AND RESTATE WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID. WHY DON'T YOU 603 SAY SOMETHING THAT CALP US ALL? ARE YOU MINDLESS MACHINES? 604 CAN'T YOU DO SOMETHING ELSE BUT REPEAT YOURSELVES? UGH YOU PEOPLE GIVE ME 605 A HEADACHE. GET OFF OF IT. WE ALMOST HAD A OOD SUBJECT GOING. 606 IT WAS ABOUT THE TERM 'HACKER'. THAT COULD HAVE BEEN EXPANDED ON. I DON'T 607 THINK IT WOULD BE HALF AS BAD IF YOU AT LEAST TALKED ABOUT NUCLEAR WAR EVERY 608 OTHER DISK INSTEAD OF EVERY SINGLE DISK. I ASK NOT FOR A REPLY. 609 610 JUST THINK ABOUT IT. DON'T GET HOSTILE. USE YOU HEADS (FOR A CHANGE). 611 612 *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=MERLYN=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* 613 614 I agree. I really don'care to be apprised of the precise temperature 615 of each individual cell in my body should a 10 megaton warhead 616 land in my living room. How about some info on, say, sexual function 617 after forty, or perhaps we could find out what Julia Child looks 618 like upon arising? Does Johnny Carson really exist? But seriously, 619 folks, what ever happened to the movement for a state lottery 620 patterned after that of our neighbors? Anyone for a quick 621 million bucks? 622 JIMBO DA BIMBO 623 624 ---------------------------- 625 How about the private message thing? Did that die? 626 ############################################################# 627 ************************************************************* 628 629 d: point well taken. I'll behave myself. leroy