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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ******************* REMOVED: 26 APR 83 *****************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6 THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24
25 ******************************************
26 Consider a load of trash dumped somewhere. Is the main problem:
27 1. The waste of resources (recyclability)
28 2. The aesthetics (It's UGLY!)
29 3. The potential damage to who-knows-what.
30 *******************************************
31 :::::::
32 SOMETHING I SAW A WHILE BACK...
33 TO DO IS TO BE: NIETZSCHE
34 TO BE IS TO DO: SARTRE
35 DO BE DO BE DO: SINATRA
36 :::::::
37 ******************************************************************
38 The man who permits his attention to be monopolized by an argument
39 directed against some detail, to the extent of overlooking the work
40 as a whole and the manifold proofs on which it stands, will only
41 demonstrate the narrowness of his approach.
42 He will be like that "conscientious scientist," Professor Twist in
43 Ogden Nash's verse, who went on an expedition to the jungles, taking
44 his bride with him. When, one day, the guide brought news that an
45 alligator had eaten her, the professor could not but smile. "You mean,"
46 he said, "a crocodile?"
47 Immanuael Velikovsky February 1952
48 ******************************************************************
49 Cheese, Glitch...Why throw me into that fantasy of yours? But, if I have to be
50 there: I happily volunteer to a) cover my ears {and eyes on the off-chance
51 that any two of the other four can write, much less spell}, b) stifle a
52 constant urge to point out the futility of those four shouting to be heard,
53 yet not willing to listen, much less hear, except to provide transportation
54 toward their next trip down babbling brook, c) slink quietly back to the
55 slime corner that Agora so generously allowed me, and d) promise to agree to
56 anything that comes from it, knowing "in my heart-of-hearts" that none outside
57 a small circle will care.
58 Was it you curious about children and nuclear fears? "Dark Circle" should be
59 the next movie for you to see...but do remember, somebody is taking your
60 money at the door.
61 HUMBUG, still looking to buy a good used VIC-20...cash.
62 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
63 ASSUMTIONS OF SCIENCE:
64 A. CAUSALITY: CAUSE AND EFFECT
65 B. DETERMINISM: LAWS AND RELATIONSHIPS
66 C. PREDICTION: ANTICIPATION OF THE FUTURE
67 D. VERIFIABILITY: PUBLIC OBSERVATION AND REPLICATION
68
69 METHODS OF SCIENCE ( EMPIRICAL MMETHOD)
70 A. OBSERVATION
71 B. CLINICAL METHOD: IDIOGRAPHIC MANIPULATION
72 C. EXPERIMENTAL METHOD: USE OF INDEPENDENT AND DEPENDANT VARIABLES
73 WITHIN AN EXPERIMENTAL AND A CONTROL GROUP
74 HYPOTHETICAL CONSTRUCTS
75 (EMPIRICAL) DEDUCTION: INDUCTION: BASED ON HYPOTHESIS
76 HYPOTHISIS.....THEORY.......LAW
77 HYPOTHISIS BECOMES THEORY, THEORY BECOMES LAW
78 (NOTE THAT SCIENCE DOESNT WASTE TIME SEARCHING FOR "TRUTH")
79 YET ANOTHER PLUG FOR EMPIRICISM.... SPAM
80 ==========================
81 "Details! Details! Remember, the tire's only flat on the bottom!
82 ==========================
83 AS MUCH AS I TIRE OF SOME OF THE LONG-WINDED PHILOSOPHICAL
84 ARGUMENTS LATELY, I LIKE'EM A LOT BETTER THAN THE V.G.
85 GIBBERISH WE USED TO HAVE (KNOCK ON WOOD.)
86 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
87 BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED
88 (MY GARFIELD IMITATION)
89 ......................................................................
90 Why recycle? It is cheaper, both in initial cost, and later in operating
91 costs to make the container part of the product, or itself useful.
92 Failing that, make it so thin it is worthless. The fact that byproducts
93 can be made from 'waste' doesn't help much as they are usually of much
94 less value.
95 The fact that something can be done, and that doing it may be good isn't
96 enough, it must be better to do it than not to. Speaking of the 'cost'
97 of something may seem only to imply dollars, but if I may, it can also
98 refer to all things bad in doing something. In order to balance whether
99 something is best done, or if doing it does more harm than good, we need
100 to measure both the good and the bad in some common way, usually by
101 assigning a dollar value to each. It isn't always easy. What is the value
102 of clean air? (This means less medical bills as well as pretty sky.)
103 What is a human life worth? (Read this last as "what are we willing to
104 pay for a safer highway?") At what level of risk from contamination will
105 we draw the line? (This risk is higher with recycled stuff.)
106 The costs of recycling are hidden because they are spread out. Returning
107 the used bottles from the grocer is cheap, as noted the same truck can
108 take them back, but the grocer needs to store the dirty, unsanitary bottles.
109 Do you want trash stored with your food? Newspapers are often recycles
110 because of their high visiblity, but newprint is the least valuable paper.
111
112 Recycling on a consumer level is best described as a hobby: fun but not
113 very valuable. It can be made to turn a profit, but the time spent doing
114 it could be more valuable doing something else. However, if you like to
115 do it , do it. But don't tell me how wonderful it is, if it was so great
116 we would have to fight off the big companies for it.
117 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$B.A.D.$$Apr 5, 83 $$$$$$
118 GAG ME WITH TRASH
119 -------
120 BAD: sorry it took so long to get back to you.
121 Metalaw is an attempt to constuct an ethical system that could
122 be applied "universally". The "standard" case that I've seen is
123 "Ok, a spaceship from Mugwump VII has just landed. This "creature"
124 has slithered out. It seems to be intelligent. On what basis are
125 you going to interact with it? (remember the Indians!)"
126 As you can see, when they say universal they aren't kidding!
127 Actually they do seem to have some interesting & possibly useful
128 ideas. If you're interested I'll try to find some of my references.
129 _______________________________F - I W_________________________
130 As to recycling, I note that industry isn't filling all those
131 dumps, consumers are! If there is a use for a waste material
132 industry will sell it for that purpose. I work at Wacker Siltronic
133 and we make silicon wafers for Intel, TI, etc. We have lots of
134 "waste" silicon (bad wafers, process scrap, etc) all of it "too
135 contaminated" to be recycled (ie more than .0000001% impurities)
136 What do we do with it? We sell it to steel mills as high purity
137 silicon for silicon steels. (their idea of high purity= 99.9%).
138 We do have wastes that aren't recycled. They are either in small
139 amounts (ie too expensive) or useless.
140 The consumer (you and me) can rarely get as much out of
141 recycling as we put in, or at least it feels that way. We can't
142 sell much of our waste products & those that we can don't net
143 enough for the time we put in. We need some sort of centralized
144 setup to have enough volume to be worth the trouble. But I suspect
145 that we won't vote to pay for it. Too bad, we could use it.
146 As for the returnable bottle problem: I have a friend
147 who works for a supermarket. He told me why they don't like
148 returnable cans (bottles aren't QUITE as bad!). They have to pay
149 for the cans individually, but they get paid for them by the BAG!
150 Since there are usually a few squashed, bent etc cans they lose
151 money. But neither they nor the drivers have the time (@ $/hr)
152 to count things individually. Come up with a PRACTICAL solution
153 to this and you'll make a LOT of people happy.
154 ........................Leonard.............................
155 THOSE CANS THAT ARE TAKEN BACK BY STORES ARE USUALLY BY MEASURE
156 OF THE BAG SIZE AND NOT THE CONTENT OF THE BAG BY WEIGHT WHICH
157 IT SOULD BE-MOST CANS ARE PRODUCDED BY VOLUME ON A WEIGHT SCALE
158 IN RELATION TO THE RAW MATERIALS THAT GO INTO THEM-THE ONLY DIFF
159 -ENCE IS THE SIZE-NO BIG PROBLEM TO OVERCOME.A GOOD WAY TO SAVE
160 SOME ENERGY, COMPARED TO WHAT IT TAKES TO MELT THOSE MATERIALS
161 (RAW)TO GET THE FIRST FORM(CANS)THE VOLUME THAT LEONARD TALKED
162 ABOUT BEFORE THIS IS RIGHT THERE-QUOTE-"DUMPS"YOU HAVE A MASS OF
163 MATERIALS THAT PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH SO IT GET'S THROWN
164 INTO THE CAN BEHIND THE HOUSE, BUT MOST OF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT
165 CAN BE RE-USED, BE IT BOTTLES USED OVER OR MATERIALS THAT CAN BE.
166 WE HAVE THE LUXURY OF THROWING IT OUT BUT WILL WE ALWAYS HAVE THAT?
167 WHY NOT RECYCLE NOW INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR THE IMPARITIVIES OF USE
168 AND ACCESS..........................THE O.J.KID.......4/5/83......
169 COMPUTER CARDS(PUNCH)ARE ABOUT THE BEST PAPER YOU CAN RECYLE AND
170 PRINT OUT COMES NEXT TO NEWSPRINT AND CARDBOARD AND THESE ARE ONLY
171 FIBER MATERIALS IN THE TOP RECYCABLES OF PAPER-THERE ARE MANY MORE
172 DOWN THE SCALE AND MANY ARE BENIFITTING FROM JUST THIS AVENUE.THE
173 WHOLE SITUATION HAS BECOME BLURRED BY WHAT MIGHT BE COST EFFECTIVE
174 BUT THERE ISN'T A SOUND BASE HERE IF YOU THROW ALL ATTACHMENTS OF---
175 IT WILL COST MORE, IT'S TRASH-I DON'T WANT IT AROUND, IT'S TO MUCH
176 TROUBLE,WILL I HAVE TO TAKE IT TO A CENTER, I DON'T HAVE THE TIME,
177 LET SOMEONE ELSE DO IT,....WHAT IS THE ANWSER????REALIZING THAT WE
178 DON'T HAVE TO WASTE ANYTHING-WE ALL BENIFIT IN THE END BY REUSING.
179 ************************************THE O.J.KID*:****4/5/83*******
180 Although I may have seemed to, i don't mean that recycling is bad, there
181 are other benefits otthat are hard to see, like long term shortages, but
182 in balance, the reason there is little household recycling is very simple:
183 it isn't worth it. There is a good reason why the bottlers fight the
184 recycling, it costs them more. As to waiting for the time when we
185 absolutely must recycle, it probably is the best way to get people to do
186 it, and is a valid reason; whereas the present blather is just that, and
187 there is really very little reason to recycle most stuff now, directly.
188 The bigger problem is getting rid of the wastes. Recycling will not help
189 here much, because it only deals with the better stuff, not the high
190 volume trash. If you really want to do something useful, invent a workable
191 way to burn trash cleanly. (It might even turn a profit, there is a lot of
192 fuel value in garbage; but if it is only cheaper than what we have it will
193 pay off.)
194
195 UP 10
196 ENTER
197 I CAN'T REALLY GET DOWN- ALL I CAN SAY IS-LETS GET TOGETHER AS A GROUP
198 AND I CAN SHARE SOME INSIGHT ON "TRASH", "WASTE" AND ANYONE WHO REALLY
199 WANTS TO SEE THE REAL POSSIBILITIES,OUT THERE--I ANYONE IS SERIOUS ABOUT
200 I CAN SHOW YOU ALL THE VARIOUS COMPANIES AND SOME INDUSTRY IN THIS AREA
201 AND MORE TO GET A IDEA THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO SIT IN OUR HOUSE AND SAY-
202 FINE:,SOMEONE ELSE WILL DO IT.I HAVE WORKED IN JUST ABOUT EVERY INDUSTRY
203 TALKED ABOUT AND I'M STILL A KID AND IT BLOWS ME AWAY BECAUSE OF THE
204 WAY PEOPLE WANT TO SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG-I CAN SHOW ANYONE WITH SOME
205 TIME JUST WHAT WAITS OUT THEIR AND WASTE THEY WOULD NOT EXCEPT.IT HAS
206 NOTHING TO DO WITH COST EFFECTIVENESS OR PROFITS-JUST A LITTLE COMMON
207 HAS ANYONE EVER STOOD ON A MOUNTAIN OF WHAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO THE
208 "DUMP" AND BEEN OVERWELED BY WHAT THEY SEE-IT IS A SIGHT TO BEHOLD-
209 ALL THIS IS GOING TO BE PLOWED UNDER WHEN MOST OF IT COULD BE USED
210 BY RECYCLING-IS SOMEONE GOING TO GET THEIR HANDS DIRTY?????MORE THAN
211 _________________________________________
212 I might be more enthusiasic about recycling, except for all
213 the nature-nuts and eco-freaks around. Unusually disgusting example:
214 A few years ago I saw some show where some enthusiastic loonie suggested
215 that if we must watch our energy-wasteful televisions, we should get
216 some sort of pedalled alternator and generate our own electricity.
217
218 What a LOONIE! First, there is the not-insignificant possibility
219 that this could damage the TV. Second, TV's don't use much electricity,
220 anyway. Third, watching TV can use a lot less juice than most anything
221 else, including reading under a lamp. Fourth, the overall cost of food
222 energy is probably 100 times more expensive than hydropower, coal, or
223 nuclear-powered generation.
224 True, pedalling such a monstrosity would be good excercise, but
225 that wasn't that idiot's main idea. While this idea may be on the "lunatic
226 fringe", I see reasoning that is only somewhat less insane every day.
227 There are some places where conservation and recycling can,
228 should, and will be done. And I'll help. (I already do.) But correspondingly,
229 some things can't be done. Learn the difference.
230 ___________________________________________
231 EEEEEEEKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!
232 OHMIGOD!!! THE VALS LEAVE FOR JUST A LITTLE WHILE AND YOU SEE WHAT
233 HAPPENS!!!!?????? THESE SILLY GIRLS START TAKING THEMSELVES ENTIRELYELY TOO
234 SERIOUSLY!! GAG ME WITH TRASH BARFO MAXIMAL WHEN WILL THESE SILLY TYPE
235 A PERSONS GET OVER THEMSELVES!!!!!!
236
237 ANYWAY BACK TO CULTURE G I R L F R I E N D I'M NOT ON YOUR DRESS AND
238 MY DEAR PLEASE RETURN MY HOOPSKIRT EEEEEEKKKKK!!!! ANYWAY MY BOYFRIEND ERNIE
239 ALWAYS SAYS HIT ME BEAT ME HURT ME HOLD ME BUT NOT IN THAT ORDER
240 MOON U ARE YOU STILL ALIVE?????? HEARD YOU STOLE YOUR MAMA'S BOYFRIEND
241 GET OFF HER DRESS!!!!!
242
243 LIKE TOTALLY MAXIMAL
244 HUG YOUR FACE
245 THE VAL GAL
246
247 PS HAVE WE TRADED FILES BEFORE????
248
249 FLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFFFLUFF
250
251 ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
252 WELL VAL, YOU SOUND LIKE MY KINDA GAL.MAYBE WE COULD GET TOGETHER
253 AND PLAY WITH MY WHIPS,CHAINS,AND GREAT DANES.LIKE FOR SURE FOR
254 SURE. CAN YOU BE KINKY STRAIGHT AND GAY?DO YOU GET INTO WATER SPORTS?
255 ==========================================================================
256 To SPAM: Science DOES seek to establish truth. Even your beloved
257 empirical approach does. Both Special and General Relativity were
258 theoretical speculation that was later confirmed empirically by experiment.
259 As you pointed out, reasoning can be inductive or deductive. Truth is
260 the recognition of reality and is achieved thru reasoning. Truth is
261 verified empirically but is postulated theoretically. Seeking theories
262 that are "true" is implicit in all science. But as in all endeavors,
263 there are charlatans. By their fruits ye shall know them, as HUMBUG
264 alluded to. To HUMBUG: This is a free forum--you just don't like to be
265 rendered naked by clear analysis of your views. You complement my bright
266 style by expressing annoyance at it. I must be doing something right!
267 =====================AGORA CADRE============06APR83--2110==================
268 After reading for the tenth time the same repetitous verbage from Agora Cadre
269 et al, I think I shall bow out of this whole non-realistic/unethical/immoral
270 thing, and return to life as I love and know it befor I lose my sanity
271 (assuming you have left me with any at all.)
272 ........... finally yours, the exwarior ...... 6 apr 83 ............
273 AGORA
274 SCIENCE DOES NOT SEEK TRUTHS,BUT RATHER TO ESTABLISH FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE.
275 SCIENTISTS OBSERVE OCCURANCES EMPIRICALY TO FIND CONSISTANT REPETITION
276 OF EVENTS. THEY TRY TO MAKE A PREMISE OR FOUNDATION, FOR THERE
277 HYPOTESIS,IN THE FORM OF A PREDICTION. PROVE IT TRUE OR FALSE BY MEANS
278 OF DEDUCTIVE AND INDUCTIVE EXPERIMENTATION, AND GATHERING OF DATA.
279 APON PROVING THE HYPOTHESIS ENOUGH TIMES IT MAY BE ACCEPTED AS A
280 THEORY,WHEN THE THEORY HAS BEEN AGAIN CONSISTANTLY PROOVEN INUMBERABLE
281 TIMES,(HOW MANY IS ALWAYS OPEN TO ARGUMENT) YHEN SAID THEORY MAY BECOME
282 "LAW". THE DIFFERANCE BETWEEN "TRUTH"AND "KNOWLEDGE" IS MEARLY A PRIME
283 EXAMPLE OF THE HOMOGINIZATION OF OUR LANGUAGE THROGH USAGE.I EVEN
284 SAY THINGS ARE "TRUE" WHEN SPEAKING OF FACTS,BUT IN THE PHILOSOPHICAL
285 SENSE THEY ARE TWO DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT REFFERENTIAL TERMS. SORRY
286 FOR THE CONFUSION. HEY I REALY ENJOY THIS !! BUT IS GETTING A
287 BIT OLD ISNT IT? OH WELL ,THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK EVERYONE!!!!!!
288 SPAM
289 ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
290 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
291 please remember, electricity is not a recyclable material. whenever
292 you are typing characters into this system, you are using some small
293 amount of our resources. Keep this in mind, and be brief.......
294
295 SLOTH
296
297 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
298 AGORA...AGORA...AGORA....If only your ears were as active as your fingers!
299 Challenge you to re-read all your accessable tirades; read them out loud;
300 listen as you do. Grade yourself on clarity, applied logic, use of
301 acceptable expert documentation, and self-discipline and control.
302 Introspection, subject: projected image ... could be valuable for you now.
303 HUMBUG, hardly naked, and refraining from grade-school name-calling.
304 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
305 GLITCH--HAVE YOU READ LINES 48+? ADD TO THAT THIS NOTE OF CLARIFICATION:
306 In direct answer to your earlier P.S., any true intellect would first
307 consider the value to SOCIETY as he views it of the outcome of such a
308 situation. If he deems a particular outcome to be essential, he controls
309 it; if he finds triviality, he conserves himself for situations of
310 greater import. HUMBUG
311 ============================================================================
312 To HUMBUG: GRADE A++. My analysis of your views may offend you. You are
313 personally responsible for the views you express in public. And I am for
314 mine. Why don't you examine the substance of my views? You probably don't
315 because you find name-shoes that fit. I've done more philosophical essay
316 than name calling. As I've stated before, my aggressive style and
317 dramatic hyperbole is simply a way to spice the conversation.
318 =================AGORA CADRE==============07APR83--1846====================
319 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
320 Dear HUMBUG:
321 Yes, and thanks. It's interesting that yours is the only open comment.
322 I put you in for balance (ballast?). I find it amusing that "philosiphors"
323 don't aknowledge any contact with the outside world unless it is in the
324 proper "code". And they wonder why no one listens.... If one has to use
325 words of more than 15 letters to get across such simple (and important!)
326 ideas, it starts to look like mutual mental masterbation. Almost as bad
327 as economics.
328 the Phantom Glitch
329 ------------------------------------------------4-7-83---------------------
330 Now I know why philosophy isn't liked. Agora gave it too bad a name.
331 GAG ME WITH ETHICS.
332 ===================================================
333 Your Honor: My client is innocent! He has done more sleeping than murdering!
334 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
335 BYE
336 A RECIPE FOR ORGANIC GARDENERS: TAKE 30 GARDENSNAILS AND 30 EARTH WORMS
337 OF MIDDLING SIZE, BRUISE YE SNAILS AND WASH THEM AND YE WORMS IN FAIR
338 WATERS, CUT YE WORMS IN PIECES. BOIL THESE IN A QUART OF SPRING WATER TO
339 A PINT. POUR IT BOILING ON 2 OUNCES OF CANDIED ERINGO ROOT SLICED THIN.
340 WHEN IT IS COLD STRAIN IT THROUGH A FINE FLANNEL BAG. TAKE A QURTER OF A
341 PINT OF IT WARM, WITH AN EQUAL QUANTITY OF COW@S MILK TILL WELL, AT TWILIGHT.
342 *********** RAVEN ********** 4-8-83 A.D. *******************************
343 EXIT
344 Yummy, just love to eat organic gardeners
345 ...??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
346
347 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::4-9-83:::::::::::::::
348 IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT HAS A IDEA TO THE VALUE OF A 1950
349 BUICK 4 DOOR-SUPER 50 SERIES-STRAIGHT 8,STOCK WITH 70,000 0R. MILES?
350 CONCERNING THE BUICK-THE NUMBER FOR ANY RESPONSE IS 288-4047(RICK).
351 TO MIKE DAY
352 WAS WONDERING IF YOU RECIEVED YOUR CARE PACKAGE????????THE O.J. KID....
353
354 YES, TNX. THEY WILL BE VERY USEFULL.
355 ..............................................
356 TO: ALL USERS FM: CISTOP MIKEY RE: NEW SYSTEM FUNCTION ADDED
357 WELL, SINCE A FEW USERS OUT THERE SEEM TO NOT BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT
358 HOW TO HANG UP THEIR PHONE, I HAVE BEEN FORCED TO ADD A TIMEOUT
359 FUNCTION TO BWMS SO THAT THE SYSTEM WILL NOT BE TIED UP.
360 EFFECTIVE AS OF TODAY BWMS WILL HANG UP UPON 10 MINUTES OF NO
361 ACTIVITY ON THE SYSTEM. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL ALLOW THE SYSTEM TO
362 BE MORE AVAILABLE TO YOU ITS USERS.
363 ******** CISTOP MIKEY ***** 10 APR 83 ****************************
364 ABOUT THE VAL-GALS:
365 ARE THEY JUST DRUG-USING FEMALES THAT CANNOT FACE REALITY,
366 OR ARE THEY THE (MENTALLY) DEFECTIVE OFFSPRING OF VALIUM-
367 USING MOTHERS?
368 ********************MAX GRODY*******************************
369
370 HELLO, THIS IS JUST A TEST TO SEE IF I AM GETTING THRU.
371 ********************************************************
372 MY WORD, DID EVERYBODY UP AND KEEL OVER FROM EXHAUSTION AFTER THE
373 MARATHON ETHICS DEBATE? THIS THING HAS BEEN HORENDOUSLY QUIET FOR
374 SEVERAL DAYS NOW. EL ZIPPO ON ACTIVITY. THINGS HAVE GONE FROM
375 CHANGING DISKS EVERY TWO DAYS TO NO ACTIVITY AT ALL IN TWO DAYS.
376 TALK ABOUT YOUR WIDE VARIANCE IN ACTIVITY. GAD... COME ON LETS GO PEOPLE...
377 ****** CISTOP MIKEY THE PERPLEXED ONE ***** 12 APR 83 *****************
378 ?????/??????//////?????????///////?????????/////////
379 Ethics? Bah, Humbug. Let me get some sleep!
380 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
381 SLOTH-
382 WHAT ABOUT "VIBRATORS?"
383
384 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
385 EXIT
386
387
388
389
394 ANY CHICKENS OUT THERE , WANTING TO GO THRILLSEEKING ?
395 SIGNED,
396 CHICKEN HAWK
397 44444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444
398 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
399 IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW HARD THEY ARE BEING USED. DOESN'T IT?
400 SLOTH
401 ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
402 Here's a new subject, and one that will not go away:
403
404 How do we get the women interested in computers and modems????
405
406 Leave your thoughts on the matter - How, why, why not,
407 opinions about women in general, etc.
408 ***********************************************************
409 Did anyone see the Red-Head at CP/MUG tuesday????
410 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
411 If she's interested in computers, I'm interested in computers.
412 If she's interested in bluebirds, I'm interested in bluebirds.
413 etc, etc.
414 the Phantom Glitch
415 696969696969696969696969696969696969696969696969696969646139836969696969
416 Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. I would say about an 8.5.
417 ***** the exwarior *********************************************
418 FOR ALL WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED--------THERE WILL BE A GATHING
419 OF CONCERNED PEOPLE CONCERNING THE IRS AND THEIR ACTIONS ON APRIL 15,
420 1983 AT THE FEDERAL BUILDING DOWNTOWN AT 9:30 WITH SPEAKERS AND
421 ANOTHER AT 8:00 PM ON AT THE MAIN POST OFFICE DOWNTOWN ON BROADWAY.
422 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
423 Having thought at length about boy-girl-computer relations rather frequently, I
424 have drawn the conclusions that (1) if you are of high school or college age,
425 you'll probably have increasing opportunities for electronic gratification with
426 opposite-gender types, and (2) if you're out of school, you'll do better to
427 pull the plug regularly {don't want to become totally enraptured with these
428 things, do you} and to just ask someone you've met AROUND some computer in use
429 to join you for refreshments and recreation. Don't forget: computers are still
430 cold and impersonal to many people; the cry for opposite-gender friendship is
431 destined to be ignored by those who prefer face-to-face interaction, without
432 this electronic intermediary. If you buy (1) and (2), I offer you a home-spun
433 rule: If it's your work, don't also make it your hobby.
434 the real HUMBUG
435 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
436 MIKE: Why not ask callers to identify themselves by occupation, gender, and age
437 ? It couldn't help but be interesting to see who's using your system, right?
438 HUMBUG self-employed financial and computer advisor, M, 38
439 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
440 Why not, it sounds like a start at least...
441 CISTOP MIKEY - Chief engineer Edge Technology, male, single, 32
442 ................................................................................
443 after we hear from some female, it will become interesting to answer,
444 until then I guess I am in the company of men.
445 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~B.A.D. ~~male, 37~~~~~~~~
446 *************************************
447 Computers are especially addictive, often to the chagrin of the
448 computer-widows. Both my father and cousin are 'guilty' of
449 practically abandoning their wives for hours on end, totally
450 enraptured by their computers. I'm not claiming innocence:
451 I was the one that started them on this road.
452 Remember the old saying: "Women; you can't live with them
453 and you can't live without them." In computers, that saying
454 turns out to be: "Computers; your female friends can't live with
455 them and you can't live without them."
456 **************************************
457 The reason there are so few women on the BBS' is that they
458 are so selfish and self-centered and the computer does nothing
459 to flatter them
460 *****************Max Grody**********************************
461 Well, at least that's a different outlook on the subject. I can't say
462 as I agree with it, but it is different. Actually I know of a number
463 of women who work with or on computers, however most of them don't
464 really care for an extended relationship with the computer, and I don't
465 blame them for it. It is very difficult to have any kind of meaningfull
466 relationship with a computer. When was the last time you saw a computer
467 ask its operator out to a dinner, or the movies? Lets face it, COMPUTERS
468 ARE NO FUN!!! So why am I here using this computer? It is simple, I am
469 a certified C.P.A. (Computer Phreak Aholic) Maybe we should form a
470 group to help one anouther get over this insane and social threating
471 disease. We could call it CPA. (Computer Pheaks Anonymous) Some one help
472 me please before I turn into a Z80! How to identify a real C.P.A.
473 "Not now honey, I'm trying to get this sort routine working."
474 "I can't use the keyboard in that position!" "please, you're getting
475 whipped cream on the listings!" "What do you mean you have a headache?
476 It's only 2000 more lines of code for you to type in." "Honey?" Honey?..."
477 *** CISTOP MIKEY (In one of my more lucid moments) *** 14 APR 83 ***
478 ............................................................................
479 d
480 Which is more useful, a woman or a computer? Answer: That depends
481 on the kind of peripherals the computer has!
482 ...........................................................................
483 YOU'RE RIGHT, Mike: almost good spelling, some imagination, a touch of humor...
484 all in one outburst of lucidity! Don't stop now. HUMBUG (smirk)
485 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
486 COME ON, FOLKS...PLAY THE GAME...IDENTIFY YOURSELVES BY OCCUPATION ( or pre-
487 occupation), GENDER, AGE, AND your favorite NICKNAME for yourself. JOIN IN!
488 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
489 at midnight tonite (april 15 ) the telephone company will cut 42,000
490 customers over to a new computerized switcher, from 2 old relay
491 switchers, sxs and 5xb. tThis will affect all 252,253,254,255,256,257
492 office numbers. wish us luck.
493 ===================================================B.A.D.===============
494 THIS THE FRIST TIME I HAVE BEEN ON BROAD
495 HELP
496 ??????????????????
497 Which BROAD, might I ask?
498 ??????????????????
499 With wise cracks like 497, is there any question why ladies don't log on?!
500 =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
501 ;;;;;;;
502 With bad spelling like nearly every message on this disk, it's a wonder
503 we all can communicate. Cmon, folks, if you can't spell it, don't say
504 it. There ought to be a "National Be Kind to Literates" week.
505 ;;;;;;;
506 WHAT ABOUT A NATIONAL BE KIND TO ILLITERATES WEEK?
507 .
508 It is estimated that there were some 3 to 4 million computers sold last
509 year. Are they taking over the world? Not yet, it is also estimated that
510 1 human brain ha about the same computing power as all 3,000,000 of them.
511 And ther were over 50 million people born in the same time.
512 Of course, considering the comments on this BBS, I wonder if any
513 of them think. (either computers or humans)
514 ---not cynical, just B.A.D.------------------4/17/83///2320pn----------
515 Mike: Some modems WON'T drop carrier until the other end does!
516 I became painfully aware of this some time back. I have Ma Bell's
517 "wonderful" home executive service, which allows 2 lines on 1
518 phone (while using the existing wiring!). To hang up my phone
519 I had to turn off the modem. This sent a pulse(or something)
520 that the home exec unit would trip out on. THIS required dis-
521 connecting the phone (in 2 places!). I have since kludged up
522 a solution, but it was VERY annoying for awhile.
523 In case the above makes someone wonder about the home
524 executive service, my advice is DON'T!!!! Besides the problem
525 with relays inside the unit triggering out of sequence which
526 caused the above problem, there are others. The worst is cross-
527 talk between the lines. If line #1 rings while I'm on-line on
528 line 2 the ring pulses leaking over scramble data wonderfully.
529 (it once took 5 minutes for the download program to recover
530 from all the errors caused by TWO (2) RINGS!). I am slowly
531 rewiring for 2 lines so I can get out from under. Take my advice
532 and avoid this mistake.
533 Leonard- lapper/edge rounder at Wacker Siltronic-
534 28 male
535 ________________________________________________________________
536 B.A.D.:
537 In regard to my previous msg, since you seem to be
538 "connected" with Ma Bell, could you tell me where I could get
539 info on the pinout for 50-pin telephone connectors. I could
540 also use info on how the phone co. would feel about my wiring
541 one up so I could use both my phone lines from one phone (using
542 something along the lines of one of Radio Shack's multi-line
543 contollers)?
544 Leonard
545 _______________________________________________________________
546 WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HERPIES AND TRUE LOVE ?
547 ANS: HERPIES IS FOREVER.
548 HAW HAW HAW ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
553
557 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
558 I don't see much commentary on women yet- must be that you all agree
559 with me and/or really don't want women around!
560 **********Max Grody - who cares?*************************************
561 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
563
564 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
565 ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW HOW TO CONNECT A TS-1OOO AND
566 A JVC HR-6700U TOGETHER FOR ADDING TITLES TO TAPES OR ANY OTHER
567 SPECIAL EFECTS?
568 THANKS MIKE
569 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
570 COULD THE LACK OF FEMALE RESPONSE ON THE BOARD BE DUE TO EARLIER SOCIAL
571 PROGRAMING, ROLE MODELS OR SOCIETIES WILLINGNESS TO EXCEPT WOMEN IN
572 ROLES OTHER THAN BEING A HOUSEWIFE AND MOTHER RAISING KIDS?????????????
573 IT ALL RAISES A LOT OF QUESTIONS , BUT I THINK A LOT OF WOMEN HAVE AND
574 ARE BREAKING OUT OF THIS MOLD -IT NOT GOING TO BE-OH IT'S MECHANICAL OR
575 DEALS WITH ELECTRICITY SO I CAN'T DO IT- THE DOOR HAS BEEN OPENED AND
576 I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE CLOSED IN OUR LIFE TIME.****THE O.J.KID-4/18/83
577 MALE-AGE 28--PRESENT OCCUPATION OF MANY(MARINE MACHINIST)AND STILL LEARN
578 ING JUST AS I'VE STUMBLED UPON THIS BOARD AND THE COMPUTER.............
579 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
580 As if now (19:10, 4/18/83) and for a little while longer, CBBS(tm)/NW is
581 down because of power failure. The sysop is working on it and thanks all
582 you who were so nice as to call. ( especially the %&##@ who called and
583 wasn't so nice). The problem will be fixed as soon as possable.
584
585 the Phantom Glitch.
586
587 p.s. think nice thoughts of the construction work in beaverton....
588 may nothing impede it's progress.
589 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
590 Ironic thought:
591 A few years ago Byte magazine did a survey of its readers, and
592 found that only around 1% were female. This seems to be highly significant
593 (though in recent years it may have changed) because:
594 1. Computer industry isn't a old industry, set it its ways.
595 2. To program computers doesn't require anything in the way
596 of muscles or aggressiveness, etc.
597 3. Computing can be a 'private' hobby. There is no 'male
598 stigma' attached to it.
599 4. Most hobbyists are self-motivated, and do not require
600 external assistance to operate computers.
601 5. I have never observed an anti-female bias in fellow
602 hackers.
603
604 So why only 1%, when most other jobs that have lots of strikes against
605 them (old, male-dominated, competitive, full of bias) generally have much
606 more than 5% women? The old arguments that these factors cause a
607 disproportionate number of men in a hobby/job don't seem to hold up here.
608 My theory is that for some reason, women have VOLUNTARILY chosen to ignore
609 computers. This suggests that perhaps many other fields' "discrimination"
610 is similarly voluntary. Think about it.
611 ==========?==========?=========?========?========?========?=======?=======
612 REGARDING THE CONTINUING CONTROVERY OVER THE MODEM HANGUP PROBLEM, I FIND
613 (AFTER PORING OVER VARIOUS SPECIFICATIONS AND DATA SHEETS) THAT THE
614 RESPONSIBILITY FOR INITIATING THE DISCONNECTION LIES WITH THE ANSWERING
615 DEVICE (I.E., THE BBS). IT MUST EITHER STOP ITS CARRIER, OR SEND A
616 CONTINUOUS SPACE CHARACTER FOR OVER 1.5 SECONDS. EITHER OF THESE ACTIONS
617 WILL CAUSE A PROPERLY OPERATING SENDING DEVICE (USER) TO STOP SENDING THE
618 CARRIER. AT THIS POINT, THE ANSWERING DEVICE CAN (SHOULD) HANG UP, AND
619 SIMILARLY THE SENDING DEVICE CAN (SHOULD) HANG UP.
620 OF COURSE, AN ACCOUSTIC-COUPLED MODEM REQUIRES HUMAN INTERVENTION
621 TO HANG UP, WHILE A DIRECT-CONNECT BUGGER WILL DO IT AUTOMATICALLY (WE HOPE)
622 HOWEVER, THERE IS REALLY NO WAY THAT SUCH A MODEM CAN KNOW TO HANG UP
623 UNLESS IT DETECTS THE LOSS OF CARRIER ON THE LINE.
624 YES, EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE A STANDARD COMES IN HANDY. APPRECIATE THE
625 ONES WE HAVE, AND WORK OUT A FEW NEW ONES, PLEASE.
626 I,M JASON AND I DON,T LIKE GIRLS EXCEPT MY MOM AND MY SISTER SHAWNA.I
627 MEAN IT.MY AGE IS NINE.AND MY BROTHER IS EIGHT YEARS OLD.AND HIS NAME IS
628 TRAVIS.AND MY DADS NAME IS JERRY.AND HE,S THIRTYFIVE YEARS OLD.AND MY
629 MOMS NAME IS PAT.AND SHE,S THIRTYONE.AND I LOVE THEM ALL.HA HA HA.BY.GO