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NUMBER OF LINES: 629 
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.
2 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
3 ************************* REMOVED: 23 NOV 82 ****************************
4 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
5                     THIS SYSTEM.
6 BWMS WAS CREATED AS AN ELECTRONIC BILLBOARD. BWMS IS A PRIVATELY OWNED
7 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
8 NO RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON THE USE OF THE SYSTEM.
9 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
10 ADVERTISEMENTS BY THE USERS. AS THE SYSTEM IS PRIVATELY OWNED, I RETAIN THE
11 right to remove any and all messages from the system which are offensive
12 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
13 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
14 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
15 OF THE ENTER MODE. THE MESSAGE IS AUTOMATICALLY STORED.
16 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
17 use the replace command to replace the line.
18 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
19 ********************************************************************
20 Welcome yee merry travelers to the Backwater Inn. I hope you enjoy your
21 STAY HERE AND FIND IT PLEASANT. IF YOU NEED HELP, OR ARE LOST, SIMPLY
22 ASK ANY OF OUR FINE SERVANTS, AND THEY WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO
23 OBLIGE. AGAIN I WISH YOU A HAPPY AND PLEASANT STAY, BE SURE TO TELL
24 your friends of our fine hospitality, as we aim to please one and all.
25 ****** CISTOP MIKEY ****** 23 OCTOBER 1982 ***************************
26 TO: d and all else who are frightened by the loss of the words that were
27 here. Fear not! they are not gone, only moved to drive 'b' if you are
28 unaccoustomed to finding drive b, simply type 'DB' followed by a carrage
29 return after the '>' prompt is sent.
30 ****************** CIST OP MIKEY   5 NOV 82   11:53 PM ******************
31 *************************************************************
32 34SYH>............transmission begins     again we taunt &7
33 you earthlings 0kk will you not beckon to our call >>. seek
34 refuge nbefore it is too late @po44 we have been monitoring
35 your air waves it seems as though you do not 239858 compre
36 hend the meaning of disaster danger is eminent prepare to
37 die or escape @p3020f %#"%jf translation difficulty 23500
38 
39 153
40 gbfh3heryeej4y45yhnbaaaY$jkjjkgjjj jkroise28234 stand by................
41 ATTACK............66555GFF2436RGBVEA MORE THOUGHTS LATER
42 .....................COMMANDER DESTROY ALL 9018dG wet325v&7#


%#GB;D
43 Hj%$#&y3547Y6NLKMV902U4YY$%u#y$92Q6,BZTE END translatiuon:32;195-08
44 blkp53cdkgo9040, 1534#%'&tg,w0:gfv24&$(w0kgv
45 Hello dl:  I hope one of these messages get saved,  I'm not sure i know what i'm doing.
46 tk
47 Mike,  sorry about messing things up here.
48 TDK
49 
50 THE PREVIOUS MESSAGE WAS LEFT BY MISTAKE.
51 OBVIOUSLY LEFT BY AN ATARI OWNER WHO RAN
52 OUT OF GAMES TO PLAY. WHAT A SHAME, HE/SHE
53 SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT THE ONE AND ONLY - TI99/4
54 WILL PEOPLE EVER LEARN.
55 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
56 Do you mean you can play games with these things?  And you don't
57 even have to put in a quarter?  This is really one of the wonders
58 of the electronic age.  I even heard that the "BIG 'A'" or someone
59 like them is even selling Terrible Instruments 99/4 computers
60 with a pyramid marketing scheme.  They must really be a drug on 
61 the market!
62 ==================================================================
63 I'd like to see ANY TI 99/4 with 64K RAM
64 like my ATARI has!!!
65 In fact, do any of you "small" computer owners
66 have 64K of RAM (or more)???
67 ===+++++++++++++++===========+++++++++++==========+++++++++++
68 ////////////////////////////////////////
69 LET'S NOT GET INTO ONE OF THESE "My computer
70 can lick your computer." JAGS.  ENOUGH
71 ABOUT QUARTER ATARIS, TRASH-80, CRAPPLE,
72 TERRIBLE INSTRUMENTS, ETC. HAS BEEN WRITT@EN.
73 BESIDES, I'vE GOT THIS 512K TIMEX THAT I
74 JUST BOUGHT FROM MEIER AND FRANK FOR $59.95
75 THAT WILL KICK ANYBODY'S BUTT!!!!
76 ///?////////////////////////////////////
77 Why don't we get into one of these "My computer can lick your computer."
78 jags?  My computer CAN lick your computer, it weighs in at about 155 lbs.
79 and stands 4'3" and packs two Z-80 processors, 65535 bytes of memory,
80 two 8", two 5 1/4" disk drives, three RS-232, 2 1/2 parallel I/O ports.
81 and a PMMI MM-103 modem.  Any challengers?  Warning, I have acces to my
82 computers 'Big Brothers' at work and I can and will call for help if 
83 needed....
84                                  the Phantom Glitch
85                                       10/7/82, Noonish.
86 
87 ================================================
88 Well, my Model II TRS-80 won't lick, run circles, or overwhelm
89 you boys, BUT I SURE LIKE MY SEMI-DISK!
90 GREAT for compiling...
91 ===========================================
92 Well, my poor 'ol computer doesn't really care much about if it can
93 beat up some other poor suckers computer. It just likes to work.
94 It does that very well thank you 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and
95 no complaints. 
96 +++++ The believer +++++ 1:46 AM +++++ 8 Nov 82 +++++
97 WHAT A SYSTEM!!!!!  Its so simple I love it!!!!!  Not alot of silly old
98 commands to remember!!!!!  This will be popular!!!!
99  
100 TO MIKEY, THE LEADER OF THE PACK, THE TALL ONE IN THE SADDLE,
101 THE IDESTRUCCCTABLE ONE.
102  
103 I just found out what you were talking about a while ago.....
104  
105 Yes, I to have the answer of life the quest is near complete.
106  I two have seen the light the glimmer of hope the ray of
107   completion the true meaning..........yes, those little 
108   four legged creaures were running our lives all along....
109  
110                                   yes,  42  is the answer...
111 ****************************************************************
112 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
113 Still haven't seen anything that beats
114 my Atari with 72K of RAM & ROM!
115 Keep trying boys (and girls).
116 As for reliability, Haven't had a problem
117 since I bought it!!!! And it logs in
118 several hours every day.
119 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
120 I have always been curious.  How does a 6502 processor with
121 a 16-bit memory register access more than 64k?
122 (ATARI users see CBBS under BWMS trouble!!!)
123 GUESS WHEN THE FIRST SNOW WILL FALL ON PORTLAND...........
124   I SAY NOVEMBER 22ND AT 3 AM
125 *****************************************************************
126 Well, I'm trying again.  So far so good.  Mike,
127 you have another message on CBBS.  This isn't working.
128 (Sorry!!!)
129 
130 TO THE JERK WHO THINKS 64K IS ALOT OF CORE FOR A MICRO,
131 MOST OTHER MICROS HAVE 64K RAM TO. MOST DON'T HAVE TO
132 PLUG IN BASIC LIKE THE STUPID ATARI DOES. THE MACHINE IS A
133 JOKE TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO SOMETHING SERIOUS WITH COMPUTERS, NOT
134 JUST PLAY GAMES. OH SURE, ATARI HAS CENTIPEDE AND PACMAN, BUT
135 MOST OTHERS HAVE LANGUAGES AND APPLICATION SOFTWARE THAT WOULD MAKE
136 AN ATARI OWNER'S HEAD SPIN. AND HOW ABOUT THAT GREAT 40 CHARACTER SCREEN.
137 WOW! HOW ADVANCED. THEY MADE IT THAT WAY SO YOU COULD HOOK UP THE THING
138 TO A TV SET. NOW THERE IS A DEDICATED COMPUTER IF I EVER HEARD OF ONE.
139 LETS GET SERIOUS. THE ATARI IS GREAT FOR THE FAMILY ROOM FOR PLAYING
140 GAMES, BUT LEAVE IT OUT OF THE SERIOUS COMPUTER SCIENCE WORLD!
141 
142 BY THE WAY, THE DAYS OF 64K BEING THE 'ULTAMITE' SYSTEM ARE GONE. IT
143 JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW SMALL THE ATARI USERS ARE USED TO THINKING. IF
144 YOU WANT TO START BRAGGING ABOUT MAIN MEMORY, YOU BETTER START AT 256K
145 AND WORK ON UPWARDS!
146 
147 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
148 1) The Atari with 64K of RAM accesses part of
149 that ram by Bank Selecting.
150 2)All 8-bit Mican access only 64K of total
151 memory. in many Micros the 64K RAM is bank selected
152 and is usually overlayed by the ROM (which contains
153 their BASIC), changing BASICs' is difficult.
154 3)Atari has a true Operating Sy - most micros do not.
155 4) Languages for Atari:
156     Atari BASIC
157     Microsoft BASIC
158     Assembly
159     Macro-assembler
160     Pascal
161     Forth (several versions)
162     Pilot
163    ? Compiler BASIC
164     PLUS 2 or 3 less common languages!
165 5)Atari came standard years ago with "Sprites" -- Just
166 now becoming available for other computers.
167 
168 6)Atari has the best Graphics System in their price range!
169 (its the same kind as used on the BIG graphics machines)
170 uses the 6502 processor -- same as Apple
171 and Vic and several others.
172 SAME AS SYM, KIM AND AIMENGINEERING COMPUTERS!!!
173 8)the list goes on -- actually the Atari is more
174 complicated than most of the machines
175 it requires more programming ability!
176 *********************************************************
177 Alas, the trees wither and chill winds blow!
178 Darkness creeps across the land.
179 Where can I hear the voices of my fellow creatures?
180 Bring back the light and the rainbow land!
181 *******Grey Ghost*******************************************
182 I like the Atari just fine but my 3084
183 can run rings around it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
184 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
185 ================================================================
186 Scientific observation, like how much my cat is eating and how deep
187 the earthworms in my flower beds have chosen to lie, tell me that theirst
188 city-wide snowfall will occur mid-morning, December 14.  Count on it.
189 The darkness has not yet completely come, there is stil a glimmer of hope
190 in this cold hard world. I offer my hand in friendship that we may both
191 be the betFor though the end of the golden age seems near
192 it is but the begining of a new and more wonderess time of joy. Spring
193 forth oh stormy weather and bring on the clouds of wetness. For in those
194 clouds lay the seeds of life for the rainbows yet to be. The good is only
195 good when there is bad against which to compare. And in the end as with
196 all things of this sort we still must ask what is good and what is bad.
197 @@@@@@ Leo the Bull @@@@@@@ 11:06 PM  11 Nov 82 @@@@@@
198 HEY LEO...TODAY IS THE 10TH....NOT THE 11TH....YOU CALLIN' IN FROM IDAHO?
199 STOP
200 *************************************************************************
201 personally or is it personnelly..
202  
203 who cares about Atari ????????   
204 my 409 dual quuads onmy Hemi can n my Hemi can take all you guys,
205 got any takers or all of you whimps got cream cheese for
206 guts?
207 
208 *******************************************************************
209 Has anyone ever noticed the fierce competition evident on this system?
210 While the Dragon Lady was here, all of the elfin dialog was obviously
211 geared toward some sort of sexual conquest machoism.  Now that she(?)
212 is gone, everyone has to pit their clock frequencies against each other
213 to prove their superiority.
214   Let me throw down the next gauntlet.  My modem can go faster than
215 yours any day.  I have a supercharged Ma Bell 208 that can do 4800
216 bps over unconditioned lines from a standing start.  Anyone want
217 to line up for pink slips?
218 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} PM Nov 10
219 Let's be even less hostile.  Lovely we're having weather, isn't it?
220 Snow on more than the west hills by November 28.
221 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Glen Groundhog^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
222 
223 TO THE BIG ATARI EXPERT. I NOTICE, AMOUNG OTHER OMISSIONS, TWO 2 SMALL
224 COMPUTER LANGUAGES ARE MISSING. NOW I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I SURE
225 DON'T KNOW
226 ANYONE WHO USES COBOL AND FORTRAN. NOW THERE ARE TWO UNIMPORTANT COMPUTER
227 LANGUAGES. AND ATARI PASCAL...GEE WHIZ MISTER, LET'S GETS SERIOUS, IT IS
228 GREAT TO USE WITH ATARI GRAPHICS, WHICH ARE NICE, BUT WITH ALL ITS
229 'UN-NEEDED' LANGUAGE DELETIONS, IT CAN HARDLY BE TAKEN AS A STANDARD
230 PASCAL. IT IS MORE OF AN ATARI PASCAL. ATARI PASCAL PROGRAMMERS WILL
231 HAVE TO BE CONTENT IN THEIR OWN LITTLE WORLD. TO INCLUDE BASIC AND ASSEMBLER
232 AS 'EXTRA' LANGUAGES IS LIKE SAYING 'MY CAR CAME WITH TIRES!', I
233 THINK WE CAN TAKE AS A STANDARD THE COMPUTER COMES WITH BASIC AND
234 ASSEMBLER.
235 IF I WAS A COMPUTER SALESMAN TRYING TO SELL A SYSTEM TO A BUSINESS, AND
236 ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE ATARI HAD GOING FOR IT, AND IT A POINT THEY
237 NEVER FAIL TO MAKE, IS THE TERRIF PLAYER MISSLE GRAPHICS, I DON'T THINK
238 I WOULD SELL MANY OF THEM TO THESE PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE COMPUTER
239 VERY SERIOUSLY. BUT DAD AND SON, COMING TO LOOK FOR A GAME WOULD BE
240 IMPRESSED. LET'S NOT GET THE ATARI OUT OF THE FAMILY ROOM AND INTO
241 THE 'BIG GUY' COMPUTER WORLD. ATARI SHOULD THINK OF THE 10 OR 20
242 FORTRAN AND COBOL PROGRAMMERS WHO ARE BUYING IBM'S AND APPLES AND TRS-80'S
243 AND CPM MACHINES AND ALL THE OTHERS THAT FOR SOME REASON, CHOSE TO
244 MAKE IMPLEMENTATIONS OF THESE, AS ATARI MUST THINK, UNIMPORTANT LANGUAGES.
245 IT CERTAINLY COULDN'T BE HARDWARE AND/OR PROGRAMMING CONSTRAINTS COULD
246 IT? CONSIDERING THE ATARI IS SO FAR AHEAD OF ITS TIME.
247 AND WHILE WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT, ANYONE WHO BRAGS ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY
248 OF PROGRAMMING A COMPUTER, SAYING THE PROGRAMMERS AHO MUST DEAL
249 WITH IT ARE BETTER, BUST EITHER BE KIDDING, OR LIVING IN THE MIDDLE
250 AGES. THAT ARGUMENT WENT OUT WITH THE NOVA 2!
251 
252 *****************************************************
253 I never could get the hang of digital watches, but then I never
254 did see what was so nifty about them anyway. 
255 @@@@@@ Leo the Bull @@@@@@ 10:53 PM @@@@@ 10 Nov 82 @@@@@
256 ********************************************************
257 WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE OLD CREW? SHIFTY, DBBS SYSOP, DINGY, ET AL?
258 ****** THE ALWAYS FEARFULL CISTOP MIKEY **************************
259 
260 ******************************************************************
261 THE OLD CREW DIED AND WENT TO WHERE EVER THEY SELL ATARI &
262 COMMODORE STUFF.  THE OLD CREW GOT THE SHOCK OF THE ENTIRE
263 WORLD WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THE WORLD WAS INDEED NOT FLAT.
264 THE OLD CREW A BB REAL NEAT COLLECTIION OF LEFT-OVERS GOT
265 STALLED IN TRAFFIC WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THAT WATER REALLY 
266 WILL NOT WORK AS GOOD AS GASOLINE IN AUTOMOBILES.  THE OLD
267 CREW IS IN AFGANISTAN (OR WHAT EVER) STILL TRYING TO USE
268 THAT LONG TUNNEL TO ESCAPE FROM DANGER.  THE OLD CREW IS
269 NO LONGER THE OLD CREW.  FOR THEY ARE OF PAST TROYS OF YESTER
270 YEAR.....
271  ***********************WILSON PICKET***************************
272 Well while you "serious" computer programmers
273 are re-inventing the wheel for your "serious"
274 computers, us Atari programmers will be learning
275 to program the Atari to do the things that
276 your computers can not do and we will be making
277 lots of $$. Decry the games if you will, but
278 no other machine can match Atari there and the
279 people who wrote those games are raking in the $$'s!!!
280 As for serious applications, Why the field's
281 wide open for me (and other Atari programmers)
282 to write some good applications programs and
283 make big $$. Can you say the same for your machine?
284 **************************************************************
285   A lot of programmers apparently like to use Pascal. I'll admit to
286 never having used it, but I have read several articles and one book
287 on the language.  Frankly, I don't see what all of the fuss is about.
288 It does have some nice features, such as mixed data types in records 
289 and convenient procedural organization, but I find the whole thing
290 just a bit too rigid for my taste (just as BASIC is too much like a
291 piece of overcooked linguine).
292   Several of the professional programmers that I work with really
293 don't care for it either.  I'd like to hear from a Pascal addict;
294 what is the attraction?
295 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} pm Nov 11 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
296 
297 TO THE ATARI NUT. SINCE THERE ARE SO MANY MORE IBM'S AND APPLES AND
298 TRS-80'S OUT THERE THEN THERE ARE ATARI'S, ANYONE WHO PROGRAMS THEM
299 WILL MAKE A HELL OF ALOT MORE MONEY THEN HE/SHE COULD WRITING GAME 
300 PROGRAMS FOR THE ATARI. GAMES ARE BUT A NOVELTY, THEY SOON DIE OF LACK
301 OF INTEREST. I STILL DIDN'T SEE ANY REBUFFS TO THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS,
302 SO I'LL TAKE THE SILENCE AS YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO REFUTE MY CLAIMS. I AND
303 ALOT OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THE POOR ATARI GAMES MACHINES BITE THE
304 DUST IN YET ANOTHER TEST OF COMPUTER MUSCLES.
305 BY THE WAY, YOU BETTER GET OFF YOUR LAURALS ABOUT THE ATARI BEING
306 SO SOPHISTICATED. THERE ARE NEW COMPUTERS OUT NOW THAT MAKE THE GRAPHICS
307 ON THE ATARI LOOK SILLY. HOW GOOD AF PICTURE CAN YOU GET WITH A TV
308 ANYWAY. IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DISPLAY IN GOOD CLARITY HIRES
309 GRAPHICS ON A STANDARD TV. FACE FACTS BUD, YOU AND IT JUST CAN'T HACK
310 IT. LITERALLY.
311 ********************************************************************
312 There are so many I don't know where to start. But let's look
313 at the last comment - It turns out that the Atari comes
314 with a outlet for a Monitor (B&W or Color) as well
315 as a connection for a TV.
316 Next:  Basic CPU for Atari is EXACTLY the same as for Apple.
317 Anything (including Languages) that can be run on the
318 Apple can also be adapted for the Atari.
319 The Atari also has a separate computer chip for handling
320 the display - saves the CPU a lot of processing time!
321 The basic off-the-shelf Atari comes with upper AND lower case,
322 and includes a text mode that has TRUE DECENDERS!!
323 The basic Apple comes with upper case only - lower case = extra $.
324 The Atari not only has a redefinable character set,
325 it also has a redefinable keyboard! - great for foreign languages.
326 Player/missiles can be used for special symbols -
327 like mathematical sigmas, functions, deltas, etc. these
328 symbols can span more than one text line and can be positioned
329 anywhere on the screen.-- mathematical formuas can look
330 the same on the screen as in the book!!!
331 Atari handles the screen as an I/O device - this permits 
332 self-modifying programs (executable code as well as Data statements)
333 try that with your Apple!
334 This is just a beginning - so far YOU have't
335 made any specific claims for superioity other than
336 some of these other machines have been around longer 
337 and have more software for them (remember, computer
338 languages are software!), so how about you digging up something
339 your MACHINE can do that Atari can't (besides cost more!).
340 *****************************************************************
341   **** FLASH *****
342 That super-charged Atari MAY become even more supercharged!!
343 Coming soon for the Atari 800: 192K memory upgrade -
344   48K hardwired main memory plus 32 banks of 4K each!!
345 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
349 That ol' reflex hit me again...... the Phantom Glitch
350 
353 ========================================================================
354 TO THE ATARI DEFENDER:  If you are truly a serious programmer, heed this:
355 I will consider taking on an associate in my business, to concentrate
356 on financial applications in retail sales, written on WANG hardware.  You
357 will eventually take over my client base, my specialty software, and my
358 headaches as I move on.  Serious responses only, in personal message form,
359 on Connection 80, xxx-xxxx.  Dave Rodman, Systems Consultant  11/12
360 ========================================================================
361 **************************************************************************
362 
363               NEED A COMPUTER? CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY ONE ?
364                            RENT ONE!
365 
366                          DATASOURCE COMPUTER
367                                CENTER
368 
369                            
370                         PORTLAND, OR. 97201
371                               xxx-xxxx
372 
373 
374 TO THE ATARI DEFENDER
375 WHO THE HELL SAID I HAD AN APPLE. AND WHO THE HELL SAID I
376 DIDN'T HAVE Upper lower case either. You have got your facts all wrong
377 bud. tell me mister, what computer worth its salt doesn't have
378 a redifinable keyboard. That is old hat, just like most of the otehr
379 stuff you brag that your Atari has. If and the damn CPU is the same as
380 an apple, how come you don't have a decent pascal, or a fortran or a
381 cobol? What will you tell me this time to side step the main issue?
382 The Atari is a great machine for writing interesting games and limited
383 applications software, but it just can't hack demanding applications like
384 most serious computer users need. Atari themselves don't advertise
385 the atari computer as being a competitor to the systems that are
386 capable of putting out when required. You make the Atari sound like the
387 best thing underneath a keyboard. Well you are wrong, dead wrong. I
388 personally know of several people who went shopping for computers, and
389 all of them looked at the Atari as one of the choices. All came away with
390 something else. Whether is was the ridiculus keyboard(I'm talking about
391 the 800), or the 40 char screen, or the lack of serious software, or the
392 'game machine' atmosphere painted by the salesmen, or the decrepite disk
393 drives that are slower than sin, or the lack of a reasonable hard
394 disk, or a host of other weaknesses, they all chose something else.
395 Who is going to buy a computer that looks and acts like a toy. Sorry fella,
396 you stay in your own little atari world, and let the rest of the world
397 'dwell' in their choises of their 'vastly superoir' computers.
398 
399 End of tirade.......................by a semi-mad man..................
400 ******************************************************************
401 As I recall, you are the one who mentioned in a previous message
402 about Apples (and IBM and TRS80) being "serious" machines.
403 Also 80 columns vidio is avail. for Atari (extra cost just like
404 for Apple and some models of TRS80's)
405 You keep carping about "serious" applications but have declined
406 to enumerate them.
407 Disk drives? Slow is a relative term -- I know one thing:
408 My Atari Disk Drive gives me almost no errors while my CP/M
409 machine gives me BDOS errors about every third time and often
410 gives me a bad program load!!!
411 As far as languages and other software, if Atari had been first
412 out of the gate instead of Apple, there probably be more for the
413 Atari than there is for the Apple and the TRS80 combined!!
414 As for why other people choose other computers:
415 A guy at work was saying about the same things about the Atari
416 as you have been, but when I pinned him down he admited that
417 the reason he preferred Apple and TI was because his brother
418 had one and he was more familiar with it than the Atari
419 (actually he didn't know anything about the Atari!!!!!)
420 One advantage of Atari over IBM PC:
421 IBM has RAM dedicated for the display and is therfore limited -
422 The Atari display memory can reside ANYWHERE in memory!!
423 Multiple display memorys can be built an accessed by the program!
424 As far as Atari being a game machine - yes so far it is
425 BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.
426 The Atari Word Processor program has some features that
427 are superior (more convienient) than Wordstar!!! (we use both!!)
428 *****************************************************************
429 ps: Hard Disk - Corvus Hard disk interfaces to the Atari.
430 Other hard and soft disks are expected soon!!
431 *****************************************************************
432 pps: Quote:: "Atari Pascal supports the International Standards
433 Organization (ISO) draft standard (DPS/7185 as of 10/1/80),...."
434 "Although Atari Pascal isn't completely compatable with
435 UCSD Pascal, both versions are written around a common core-
436 Pascal as defined by Jensen and Wirth. the differences
437 aren't as significant as, for example, the differences
438 in various BASICs"
439 Unquote.
440 Besides, You gotta expect that ANY language written for a
441 machine with superior capabilities (GRaphics for Atari, What you got?)
442 is going to have commands unique to that machine!
443 If your machine uses exactly the same languages as 
444 a bunch of others, then maybe yours is just another overpriced
445 dime-a-dozen machine like the others.
446 (Atari pascal costs $49 - how much did yours cost??)
447 *****************************************************************
448 
449 I have been reading the big argument between the Atari fan
450 and the person who is not so hot on Atari. I see good and
451 bad points by both people. While it is true the Atari is
452 seen mostly as a game machine, it seems to me, given a chance,
453 it could become a more serious machine. But it does have some
454 drawbacks. It doesn't have one big powerful language such as
455 Cobol or Fortran. It took atari quite a while for them to
456 even get Microsoft BASIC. The atari pascal, which is more
457 a development language for the atari itself, does have some
458 nice features. But unfortunatly it also has some of the features
459 one might expect from a $50 pascal. Not unlike JRT pascal, there
460 are some annoying compiler bugs. It is also missing some of the
461 extensions of pascal, which, although are not standard, are
462 standard amoung micro pascals.
463 
464 Someone mentioned how the atari can put its screen memory anywhere
465 in memory, and the IBM PC didn't have this quality. Well I'm sorry
466 to say that the IBM PC, although it does have dedicated screen
467 memory, it has more screen memory that the atari has in its entire
468 memory. It also has a higher graphics resolution, and can display
469 more colors. But the IBM doesn't even have the best graphics for
470 the so-called second generation micros. Some like the new Dec
471 Rainbow, the Epson, and some lesser known names.
472 As for software, have you ever seen just how many programs are
473 available for TRS-80's and Apples. Thousands apon thousands of
474 programs. I doubt that the Atari itself could surpass these 2
475 classic computers in software available. Both have CPM options,
476 already have a variaty of soft, hard, and ram disks available,
477 and now co-processors. Both TRS-80 and Apple can get 8088 CPU
478 and 8087 co-processor boards. They will then be able to address
479 up to 256K, WITHOUT bank selecting. There may be more sophisticated
480 computers out there, but none have the software base these 2
481 have. Do you realize there are over 1 million apples and trs-80's
482 out in the world. That is far more than any computer has now or
483 will have in the near future. Lets not get carried away with
484 Atari. It is an interesting machine, but not yet a classic. I am
485 speaking from experience. I have hdone extensive programming on
486 all three computers. All are nice, but some of the amenities on
487 the TRS-80 and Apple make them much nicer to program on. I hope
488 the Atari's limitations don't deter people from working on it though. Most
489 all the micros deserve as much priase as they can get. They are
490 all marvelous machines.
491 XT
492 
493 On the subject of whosa-gotza the finest micro....
494     (by the way, my monster does indeed have a Semidisk(tm) installed.)
495 Please do not credit Apple Corp., or Tandy for all the neat software
496 that is available for the machines they build.  Both companies have
497 gone out of the way to dscourage outside vendors of software and es-
498 pecialy hardware add-ons for these systems.  (it's gotten a little
499 better, but not much)  I find it mildly humerous tha Apple is now
500 against copy protection, it seems no one is buying the Apple hard disk
501 because YOU CAN NOT COPY THE SOFTWARE FROM THE FLOPPY ON TO THE HARD
502 DISK!!!!!  Tandy is famous for 'if it wasn't bought here, it will break
503 our machine' syndrome (and yes, I understand all the reasons for this 
504 policy).  
505 IBM is happy to have anyone and everyone building anything for the PC.
506 (by the way, if you want a poor mans PC, call WRAM at xxx-xxxx and ask
507 for Gary, he will fill you in on the swindle)~ If you make something 
508 really nifty, IBM will be happy to buy you out.  ~I believe that almost
509 every PC in the first 6 months production is in the hands of someone who 
510 plans to make something for the PC.  This is a triumph of faith over 
511 judgement.  Some are going to get rich, a lot will have a rather nice 
512 little machine....
513 The Glitches Law:  All the good software was done on someone elses time.
514 Anyone like to refute it?
515                                  the Phantom Glitch
516                                  13:00 11/14/82
517 
518 ************************************************************
519 Thanks Glitch for the support.
520 There is also a CP/M board for the Atari.
521 Lest some misunderstand me, I am not saying that Atari is the
522 best Micro that has ever been (or ever will be) built.
523 What I am saying is that Atari is in the same class (and in some
524 respects better than) with computers such as Apple and TRS80.
525 As for Atari colors: 128 can be on the screen at the same time
526 and creative programmers can extend this range even further
527 Is that enough colors for you???
528 As for IBM PC's Display memory: The specs show 4K for monochrome
529 and 16K for color - against Atari's 48K for a STANDARD OFF-THE-SHELF
530 machine.
531 Also, Atari is about 3 yrs old - a lot younger than Apple or TRS
532 As for High Level languages such as Cobol and Fortran,
533 what good are they going to do for the average Micro owner??
534 Thats one question I would really like an answer to - 'cause
535 so far I can't see anything I can't do with a combination
536 of BASIC and Assembly (especially Assembly).
537 As for making money: I (or someone else) can make $$
538 by writing a Wordstar equivalent for the Atari -
539 but I sure can't make anything writing Wordstar for a CP/M
540 machine 'cause IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE!!!
541 The Atari Keyboard isn't all that bad - we have used it
542 for 8-hour a day Word Processing -- it's not great
543 but it is acceptable. As far as that goes
544 the IBM PC is reported to have the best computer keyboard, yet 
545 it too has faults!!!!!!!
546 One thing that stands out about Atari is its rugged build
547 Since Atari had games and Kids in mind, they built it
548 to withstand abuse that office computers will never see!!!
549 As to total number of units: Atari is selling them faster
550 than they can make them and is expanding their production
551 in hopes of catching up with demand.
552 ************************************************************
553 HA! COBOL AND FORTRAN ARE NOT IMPORTANT? I COULD NOT HELP BUT ENTER MY
554 OWN THOUGHTS HERE. HOW DARE YOU SAY COBOL AND FORTRAN ARE NOT NEEDED
555 BY THE AVERAGE MICRO OWNER. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AT THE AVERAGE MICRO
556 OWNER! I BET THE ONLY REASON YOU SAY THESE LANGUAGES ARE NOT IMPORTANT
557 IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THEM! THE AVAILABILITY OF THESE HIGH LEVEL
558 LANGUAGES, AND I MEAN GOOD IMPLEMENTATIONS OF THEM, HAVE SOLD MANY A
559 COMPUTER FOR TANDY, ATARI, AND APPLE. ATARI CAN'T HACK IT IN THE BIZ
560 WORLD. WHAT PROGRAM HAS SOLD LOTS OF ATARIS? STAR RAIDERS! YES ANOTHER
561 GAME FOR THIS DEDICATED GAME MACHINE! ATARI ISN'T IN THE CLASS OF THE
562 APPLE, TRS-80, AND IBM, AND IT NEVER WILL BE.
563 IT IS ABOUT TIME PEOPLE STARTED REALIZING MICRO COMPUTERS ARE MORE THAN
564 GAME MACHINES. BUT ATARI DOES JUST THE OPPOSITE. THEY PAINT THE GAME
565 MACHINE IMIAGE ALL OVER THEIR ADS. THEIR COMMERCIALS SHOW CENTIPEDE AND
566 PACMAN, NOT ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE AND VISICALC. WHEN ATARI FINALLY
567 GOT VISICALC, THEY PUT OUT A CHOPPED UP VERSION HARDLY WORTH THE
568 MEDIA IT IS DISTRIBUTED ON! THEY JUST WANTED TO SAY THEY HAD VISICALC
569 AVAILABLE!
570 
571 AS FOR GRAPHICS, A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE HAS AN IBM. HE HAS FAR MORE THAN
572 16K AVAILABLE FOR GRAPHICS. GRAPHICS MEM IS REALLY UNLIMITED. THE RESOLUTIION
573 ON THE IBM BLOWS THE SOCKS OFF THE ATARI. IT IS A FAR MORE SOPHISTCATED
574 MACHINE GRAPHICALLY. IT ALSO COSTS MORE, BUT TO GET A COMPUTER
575 THAT IS WORTH ITS SALT AND CAN DO THE WORK REQUIRED, THE DIFFERENCE
576 BETWEEN THE 2 COMPUTERS IS MINIMAL. I HAVE ALSO USED THE ATARI. THEY HAVE
577 A COUPLE OUT AT MHCC. WHEN PEOPLE COME IN, THEY EITHER ASK FOR
578 PACMAN FOR THE ATARI, OR ASSEMBLER AND/OR DOS DISK FOR THE TRS80 AND APPLE.
579 ONCE AGAIN........GAMES ATARI....APPLICATIONS OTHERS.
580 
581 ________________________________________________________________
582 Re: Atari
583 
584 	I wish to state two problems with the Atari.
585 It is almost impossible to get USEFUL info regarding its
586  capabilites from salesmen OR from the "sales literature"
587      at the store.
588 2.   Atari has an attitude regarding outside vendors of software
589      that makes Tandy & Apple seem like saints! I do NOT care
590      to deal with a company that says that they have the right
591      to determine what software can be used on their machine.
592      (i.e. the lawsuit against the makers of "Custer's Revenge)
593      (I'm not saying it is a good program, but if Atari wins
594      then they can use the decision to prevent ANY outside
595      vendor from writing for their machines.) 
596 
597 I also dislike their "if it remotely resembles our software, it
598 must be a copyright violation" attitude. I mean sueing someone
599 over a TRS-80 (!) program that VAGUELY resembles one of their
600 arcade games!?
601 (oh, by the way, TI has 56k of PROGRAM memory & some 60 or 70k
602 of rom sp
ace available (WITHOUT bank switching). It also has
603 sprite graphics. It doesn't have much software, but I seem to
604 remember someone saying that lack of software (for the ATARI)
605 didn't matter it was the HARDWARE capabilities that counted!
606 I don't have a TI but if I know this much about it, I wonder
607 what someone who OWNS one would have to say!)
608 If Atari is so dead set against outside software companys
609 why did they release their Operating System Manual,
610 their Hardware manual, and a book All About Atari?
611 From what I hear, you can't get a tenth of this
612 information from other computer manufacturers!
613 Pardon me, but I
614 have thought a lot about it and I think perhaps
615 it might be better (for me) if I shut up and let you
616 "serious" computer programmers continue to denigrate things
617 befor really looking at them.
618 You've earned your place next to ENIAC!
619 (AND THE DINOSAURS)
620 **************************************************************
621 
622 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
623 Hey S---mouth, instead of badmouthing my computer,
624 why don't you answer my question:
625 WHY IS COBOL AND/OR FORTRAN DESIRABLEFOR MY COMPUTER
626 (WHATEVER BRAND)?
627 
628 How  is it better? faster?
629 What can they do that BASIC & Assembler cannot do????