F I D O N E W S Volume 18, Number 11 12 Mar 2001 +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet community | "FidoNews" | | | Crash Netmail Attach Articled To: | | _ |fido news@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778) | | / \ | for Telnet and Bink: | | /|oo \ | Fidonews@1:2320/100 | | (_| /_) | Filegate.net or 64.38.85.9 | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner | | | (*) | \ )) | editor@fidonews.org | | |__U__| / \// | wdbonner@pacbell.net | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Table of Contents 1. HEADLINE ................................................. 1 Headline ................................................. 1 2. CHAT WITH THE EDITOR ..................................... 2 *** Chat with Editor *** ................................. 2 3. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 6 4. CORRECTIONS .............................................. 9 5. THOUGHTS ................................................. 10 //+\ Thoughts /+\\ ....................................... 10 6. LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK ......................... 12 //+\ LETTERS /+\\ ........................................ 12 7. ARTICLES ................................................. 14 //+\ FATCATS & EDITORS /+\\ .............................. 14 8. FRANK'S COLUMN ........................................... 18 9. RECIPES .................................................. 24 10. GET EMAIL ............................................... 27 //+\ We Got Mail /+\\ .................................... 27 11. HUMOR ................................................... 30 12. NOTICES ................................................. 32 <<< IMPORTANT NOTICES >>> ................................ 32 13. FIDONET BY INTERNET ..................................... 35 14. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 40 FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 1 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= HEADLINE ================================================================= "He that is good at making excuses, is seldom good at anything else" ---Benjamin Franklin "Men are ALL inventors, sailing forth on a voyage of descovery..." ----Emerson ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 2 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= CHAT WITH THE EDITOR ================================================================= Michiel=MvdV>, Carol Shenkenberger=CS>, Editor=WDB> Discussion on echopol in progress, one thing leads to another: CS> Understood. If Warren were trying to make a cut on Z2, he would need to apply EP1 in areas where it was applicable right? MvdV> My link to the MODERATOR area is operational. I'd better answer you there in order not to antagonize Warren any more than I already did. I see you are in the seen-by's. WDB> Not to worry Michiel, this echo is for the discussion of anything to do with the betterment of Fido through exchanges here in Fidonews. CS> I think we all know Z2 doesn't participate here that much. It is my personal opinion this however has little to do with EP1 and more to do with language barriers. MvdV> Language does have an effect and EP1 is only a minor point. The biggest problem is that the Z2 sysops don't very much like the attitude that prevails in many Z1 echoes'... WDB> Attitude is a many colored, many flavored concept usually in the mind of the person pontificating the faults of others, that in turn is the key that responses are flavored and colored with. If one is careful with his/her words of negativity, the results can be positive. If on the other hand a resentment is partially concealed in most replies, it becomes obviously antagonistic. CS> What I perceive is an attempt to provide some articles in other languages than english. MvdV> That's not going to work. Not to get more contributions from Z2 anyway. We've long figured out that multilingual publications don't work. There are just too many languages. All attempts for pan European multilingual television have failed. Multilingual magazines never were a success. All companies trying have gone bankrupt. WDB> That is a broad brush statement, and is not true here in North America as we have many UHF stations that are of other languages and caption selection lets us know what is going on on the screen. Some Zenes have articled in dual languages, particularly the Spanish ones. MvdV> Believe me, FidoNews is NOT going to attract any Dutch readers by publishing an occasional article in Dutch with an English translation. Those who can read English are already there and those not able to read the lingua franca - English - are not going to subscribe to a magazine of which they can at best read an occasional article. FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 3 12 Mar 2001 WDB> True of paid subscriptions I suppose, but we are talking here about FidoNews a hobby newsletter where there is an interest in all fido persons of whatever nationality. It is no biggie to scroll down an article you can't read to the portion you can read. Sure, the Snooze will be a little longer in pages but the service is there. MvdV> The only way to attract Dutch readers that can not read English is to translate /everything/ in Dutch. WDB> Well we will see if that bucket holds water when and if Dutch articles come in as submissions in both Dutch and English. If none are forthcoming it is their loss. MdvV> Then again there are plenty of people in Europe that can read neither Dutch nor English. For those one would have to provide translations in French, German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Danish, Swedish, Bulgarian, Greek, Romanian, Polish, Gealic, Russian, Norwegian, Finnish, Lap, Karelian, Estonian Lithuanian, Oekranian, Tzjec, Slovanian, Hungarian, Slowakian, Kroatian, Serbian, Albanian, Bask, Catalan, Retro Romanian, Welsh and maybe a dozen others that I forgot. And that's only Europe. CS> I can't force Z2 sysops to write although I grant I have tried to, to the point where it was 'unseemly for one not the editor' to do so. WDB> That is true, I have tried in previous articles to enlist the help of bi-lingual Fidonetters as I know you have. If they wont respond then they are not worthy to be included in the Snooze. MdvV> The best way to get Z2 sysops to write is to move the chair of the editor to Z2.... WDB> If they choose not to read or write in the Fidonews, again, it is their loss. If, as you state, their mind set is to exclude anything not Dutch, German, French or Spanish, it is truly their loss. CS> Can you do something to assist? MdvV> I am afraid I can't do much more than I have already done. I have tried to make it clear why Z2 sysops are not eager to participate. My impression is that it falls on deaf ears. I am responded to, but I am not /listened/ to. WDB> In so many words you are saying to give the Fidonews editorship to Z2 and then your sysops will participate? WDB> How does that solve the language differences with the editorship there rather then here where Fidonews was invented, registered and copyrighted? WDB> You are listened to and answered, you apparently don't like the answer, so you say your sysops wont participate. Again their loss. CS> Many things are in P4 right now, due to Z2 conditions. MdvV> Eh????? Sorry Carol, but that is completely wrong. P4 was FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 4 12 Mar 2001 written by Z1 sysops and Z1 sysops alone in a time when Z2 had just come off the ground. The main problem we had (mind the past tense) at the time it was rammed through our throat was that it was entirely written for the Z1 situation and took no heed at all to the situation in Z2. WDB> Excuse me???? The entire ZC's input from all Zones devised and developed and APPROVED the Policy 4. It is ludicrous to state Z1 "rammed" it down Z2's throat. If Z2 is so unhappy with it, and holds `vastly more votes', WHY doesn't Z2 amend it and propose ratification of all Zones? CS> They do not and never did make sense to Z1 sysops. MdvV> That can't be. P4 was /entirely/ written by Z1 sysops. CS> One example is the situation with encrypted netmail. This is a legal issue (was, may still be?) in some Z2 countries. MdvV> It still is. CS> The P4 upheld position was that a sysop must be able to read intransit netmail for whatever reason they need to and believe me, that irks the HELL out of Z1 sysops once they figure it out. MdvV> Yet it was them and them only that put it there. There is not a single line in P4 written by a Z2 sysop. WDB> When Z2 or any other Zone accepts P4, it is the same as if the wrote every word. The final votes of ALL Zones become equally the author. CS> Had Z1 'taken over' on that issue, all netmail would be unreadable to whatever level the 2 ends could manage while still getting through the various intermediate 'hops' to get from 'sender to receiver'. MvdV> I have no idea what you are driving at. Do you object to the use of encryption or do you want to encourage it? I have lost you. CS> No one between would be able to read it per P4. In short, body of message encrypted. But can we do that? No. It poses major legal problems still in some zones other than Z1 (I think it's legal in all Z3 and Z1 but not sure of the others). MvdV> That doesn't seem to bother those using e-mail via the InterNet... CS> Z2 is now larger than the rest of us combined. MvdV> Moreover, some regions in Z2 are larger than the whole of Z1.. CS> Be careful to act wisely with today's standards and listen to all, not just your own zone or own region ok? MvdV> Sigh... Our main problem is Z1 not listening to US. Not when they were the biggest and not when they aren't any more... FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 5 12 Mar 2001 CS> It's not a `numbers of sysops' game. MvdV> Really? CS> Really. It's not. Z2 somehow has a block of RC numbers so large, that the other 5 zones together cant over-ride a P4 update if all Z2 RC's voted for it. MvdV> That's how it is now. At the time of adoption of P4 Z2 was very small. Just a few regions. CS> Back when P4 came in, we still have 10 Z1 RC's. We still do. Note it takes RC votes. It did then, and does now. We in Z1 were probably outnumbered in RC's even then though I am not sure. MvdV> Definitely not. P4 was adapted by a Z1 majority when Henk Wevers was in the plane back home after a sysop meeting in Z1 where he was promised that would not happen.... WDB> Ummmmm, Learn something everyday, do you have anything to substantiate that claim? I'm not doubting your word, just would like to see an article to clear that, and other things mentioned above, for all Fidonews readers of all nations. Cheers, Michiel WDB> Thank you and Carol for a very interesting chat. We all learned something to take home with us. I have a bit of "cogitating" to do after all that has been put on the table here today. Your Editor, Ol'wdb ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 6 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= GUEST EDITORIAL ================================================================= *Why are there so many points in zone 2? by Michiel van der Vlist ------------------------ This question was recently put to me by a zone 1 sysop when I claimed there are in the order of 50,000 points in Zone 2. At first I thought: what an odd question, I would have asked "why is it that pointing never took hold in Zone 1?" Is it because there is no incentive to reduce the off hook time because local calls are often free? Is it the Not Invented Here syndrome? Are there other reasons? She conjectured there was some arcane reason because she heard of a net in california that required prospective sysops to run as a point system for a year. "What is going on in zone 2" was her question. It started me to think about it and I concluded that it needed something more than an echomail message to compose a response that made sense to those not familiar with the ins and outs of pointing. So here is one of those "in depth" articles that takes distance from the day to day hectics of echomail. ;-) Pointing was introduced in 1987 by Henk Wevers, Host/NC of the then only net in The Netherlands: net 500. First net outside the Americas for that matter. Net 5000 was to be the fake net for use by all bossnodes and points were assigned a four digit point number unique across the net. Later the number 5000 turned out to be a bad choice but at that time it seemed ok and pointing was a hit. It allowed users to interface directly with the network without the burden of logging into a BBS and typing in their messages on-line. Note that contrary to the situation in the US, local calls were never free of charge in The Netherlands and most other countries in Europe. Until 1985 or so l local call was charged a flat fee of one unit independent of duration. The Telco changed that because IBM constructed a cheap country wide WAN by tying together dial up lines that were constantly kept open, thereby avoiding the high cost of rental lines. This was possible because local areas overlap. Metering on local calls put a stop to that. This was also a blow to the BBS community. The meter is running while you'r online! That put a strong incentive on off-line reading. There was of course of off-line readers like Blue Wave or QWK but a point system is much more flexible. As a user, on-line or off-line, one usually needs to go trough an authorisation procedure to obtain a level high enough to download interesting files. A point doesn't need that. Once the hurdle of obtaining the point number and getting it to work is taken, a point can freq files at all nodes in the network without further ado. Also a point system can run unattended. BBS's were often very busy in those times. Many tries were needed to get trough. As a user one has to stay close to take action when the connection finally came through. A point can just initiate a poll or FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 7 12 Mar 2001 have it scheduled by the event manager and walk away. Fire and forget. However busy the boss system is, the call will eventually get through and the mail will be there when one returns from a fishing trip or a good night sleep. True, a point system takes a bit more effort setting up then installing an off-line reader. Note that the melting cup where this all started - net 500 - was a club net and the members were all computer nerds of one kind or another. Apparently they didn't mind the effort. Later Joaquim Homrighausen introduced 4D addressing in his FrontDoor mailer and it was soon followed by others. Points became a major source of echomail and that enticed others to try pointing too. The number of points grew exponentially. I joined relatively late in the game; 1992. This was because I was too pig headed to submit to the Intel/Microsoft supremacy. I would have written an FTN compatible mailer for my 8 bit FLEX 6809 home brew concoction if I could have found the specs for the ARC compression algorithm. But before I was able to, my employer shoved me an IBM clone through my throat. The sysop of my favorite BBS saw his chance and came running in with a disk containing a mailer, tosser and message editor and before I could finish my coffee had it installed on my computer. It didn't take long for me to get hooked. From then on I was known as 2:500/13.10135. The number has changed a couple of times since then and I have had more than one number at the time taking echomail from a multitude of boss nodes but although I finally took the step to full node status, I have always remained a point at heart. As I said, the number of points grew like a rabbit colony. When I joined in 1992 there were about 1200 In R28. By the time I had my first point list utility programme running about six month later there were over 1600 and I had to change the memory model from small to compact because I couldn't fit the list in 64K! At the top in or around 1995 there were over 5600 listed points in The Netherlands. The number of points not listed is anybody's guess. There are no arcane reasons for the large number. There never was a requirement to be a point for some time before becoming a node. Not in The Netherlands and not in the rest of zone 2 AFIAK. That certainly is not the reason there are so many. Although the point pool has always been a source for new sysops and some have used it as a stepping stone, the majority of points never had the intention nor the ambition to go for full node status. Pointing is a thing of it's own. It combines the best of two worlds. The flexibility of the node to interface with the network and the freedom of the user. In particular points are relieved of the burden of ZMH complience. It is possible to run a node without a dedicated line, but it carries some social risk if one doesn't live alone. Family members do not take kindly to being woken up by a caller not understanding the concept of advertised on line times. A point doesn't have that problem. He only calls out. He doesn't need a second line, nor is there a risk that he will be called in the middle of the night every two minutes on his voice line by some badly configured mailer. So why are there so many points in Z2? The answer is there aren't. FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 8 12 Mar 2001 There are an average of five times as many points as there are nodes. A fairly reasonable number in a hierarchical network. Five zones in a global network, Five nets in a region, Five Hubs for a Host, Five nodes for a Hub, Five points to a Boss. Sounds reasonable doesn't it? That leaves the counter question "Why did pointing never really take on in Z1 unanswered." I'll leave that question to be answered by others. Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 vlist@hccfido.hcc.nl pa0mmv@vrza.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 9 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= CORRECTIONS ================================================================= By: Warren Bonner To: Carol Shenkenberger ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Warren, Michiel has a point. I hadnt noticed before but unless > these phone numbers lead to you somehow, they probably need to > be edited out of the banner. . > > xxcarol You are correct as usual. They are voice numbers on the DSL lines. (moderator and comoderator's lines on opposite sides of town) I will correct that. Thanks for the heads up on it. I read the darn Snooze every week b-4 hatch, and it just never dawned on me that the numbers were wrong for the addresses. Look to the next Nodelist for corrections. Janis is helping us out with auto pots attached submissions. Thanks again, Ol'wdb --- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401 (1:103/401) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 10 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= THOUGHTS ================================================================= Found in researching F D Roosevelt's Library "Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly." It's National Friendship Week. Show your friends how much you care. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote: Many people will walk in and out of your life, But only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. To handle yourself, use your head; To handle others, use your heart. Anger is only one letter short of danger. If someone betrays you once, it is his fault; If he betrays you twice, it is yourfault. Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. He who loses money, loses much; He, who loses a friend, loses much more; He, who loses faith, loses all. Beautiful young people are accidents of nature, But beautiful old people are works of art. Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself. Friends, you and me....You brought another friend.... And then there were 3. We started our group.... Our circle of friends....And like that circle.... There is no beginning or end.. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ __________________________________________________ FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 11 12 Mar 2001 Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 12 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK ================================================================= By: Michiel van der Vlist == MV To: Michael Grant ....... == MG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Michael, > Mv> That is not what the Z1 sysops said when they rammed P4 > Mv> through our throat the sheer power of numbers. Now that > Mv> the balance of numbers is reversed it suddenly ain't a > Mv> number of sysops game anymore? > MG> Using your argument, zone 2 ought to be "ramming" something MG> down out throats at the moment. MV> No, I am just saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too. It was Z1 that imposed P4 on Z2 by majority rule. Now that the numbers have turned you can't change the rules if we hold you to something in it that you don't like any more. MG> If the zone 2 members don't like things too much, why MG> aren't they very vocal about it? MV>For one, there is a long history of being shouted down. Now that the numbers have turned and Z1 no longer calls the shots, they are probably not all that interested any more in what goes on in Z1. "Let them make their own mess" is probably the general attitude. My personnel opinion is that they are wrong and that Z1's mess will affect the network as a whole and that is why I am one of the few that bothers to speak up. MG> If the vast majority of zone 2 members choose to sit on MG> their hands and do nothing, MV> What makes you think the Z2 sysops are sitting on their hands and doing nothing? WB> Good question. The answer that pops into mind immediately is your statement above, "Let them make their own mess", with no input of articles to show their participation. MG> you can't blame zone 1 for that. At least there are people MG> /trying/ to improve things in this zone. MG> Zone 2 is a victim of it's own disorganization and apathy. MV> What an utter nonsense. You have obviously no idea what is going on in Zone 2. There is plenty of activity and we are doing fine, thank you. MG> If you want your zone to have more clout, It is not me, it is the FidoNews editor that wants more zone 2 participation. I am trying to explain why there is so little. FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 13 12 Mar 2001 MG> tell it to get it's act together first. You know that saying about people in glass houses? MV> It is this arrogance that pisses off the Z2 sysops Michael. We _do_ have our act together. Zone 2 is running fine. However, every time a Z2 sysop has the guts to look beyond his own zone and enters a globally distributed area, he gets shouted down by a bunch of Z1 sysops as soon as he opens his mouth. The Z1 sysops /say/ they are interested in the views of others, but they never really listen to what the others have to say... No wonder Z2 sysops shy away from globally distributed areas. MG> It's this attitude that I always hear from Zone 2 members that it's "all zone 1's fault", I don't know how you got that idea. Sure, some things that have gone wrong /is/ Z1's fault. But not all of it off course. MG> While seeing few real live proposals to actually improve things in Fidonet. MV> Then you are not looking in the right places... WB> The only articles in the last six months are from you outside of the brief commotion Leeman caused when Ward tried to illegaly take him out of the nodelist. MG> That has led me to think that zone 1 would be better off ust drafting it's own zonal policy, and forgetting about the other zones. MV> Part of the problem is that from the point of view of the other zones, that is what Z1 has been doing all along.... Think about it. Cheers, Michiel WD> You are right in a way, Zone One has always taken the initive if anything got done. You people in Zone Two have a bad attitude toward each other, and some refuse to work with others, on any level. JMHO too Ol'wdb ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 14 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= Sun 11 Mar 01 11:42a By: Carol Shenkenberger == CS> To: Warren Bonner...... == WB> Re: Re: Moderator Rules as repeatedly requested ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ((( Since this is important for all to know I answered it here.))) *** Quoting Warren Bonner from a message to All *** WB> -12- WB> The change in moderators will be done in accordance with past tradition. The moderator will name a successor when he retires. If an emergency incapacitates the editor, the Z1C will choose a replacement. These Guidelines are subject to change at any time. The moderator's word is the final authority. -------------------------------- CS> Can I make a suggestion? Make it the IC as long as we have an active one? Then the various ZC's can 'suggest' suitable candidates to the IC (and so can anyone else with an opinion obviously!). WD>Sorry Carol, I cannot in good conscience fly the Fidonews Banner each week that is very specific about the originator of Fidonews and his ownership of the Logo and Copyright which is home based in Zone One, San Francisco, Ca. WD> The Fidonews is a separate entity from Fidonet. Fidonet has no authority over this entity. The Z1C and some of the RC's rallied very quickly in the emergency of Doug's demise, to keep the Snooze on track not missing one issue. This would not have been possible if the IC were the "most equal of all equals", seeking advice from Zones that don't respond to netmail for days or even weeks. Impracticable, IMHO. WB> The Z1C is the final say in an EMERGENCY, and accepts input from the RCC as to who may be a good PRO TEM EDITOR. WB> Once that is established in lieu of the editor's passing or becoming incapacitated, the ninety day pro tem period begins with the newly named editor, when no co-moderator or named successor is known. This is new ground as no editor has ever suddenly passed away before without a co-moderator. WB> Tradition in Fidonews has been for the Editor to choose the next editor with this one exception of Doug's passing suddenly. WB> In this editor's case, being promoted from columnist to editor was a shock at first. I went to work to first see that this situation did not occur again, and named Joe Jared as co-moderator. The co-moderator is the person to carry on in an emergency. Doug never appointed a co-moderator. WB> Joe is coding a modern "Makenews.exe" and can fill in should I FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 15 12 Mar 2001 fail. He is far too busy with a young business to be a permanent editor and I have for that reason tagged Frank Vest to be the next permanent editor. I am waiting his response, and expect it to be A-OKAY. CS> An alternative might be to add in a note to the IC, that it needs to be a site who shows interest and writes articles at least every (insert timeframe, possibly every 6 months as a minimum over an 18 month recent count). That seems possibly to solve some of the dilemmas? WB> Sorry to disagree with you Carol, you have been a wonderful help in articles for the Snooze. Hope this doesn't mean the "honeymoon" is over.. . Ol'WDB By: Frank Vest, Collin County Station (124/6308.1) To: Editor, Interim Fidonews Editor (1/23) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A little thing on cats. By Frank Vest (sort of) It's strange how things happen. I've been reading the chatter in the Fidonews Echo about cats and the ongoing "battle" (said jokingly) about what they do, how they do, ways to correct behavior and such. Just the other day, a joke came across my Point in a local echo. My first thought was, "Wow! This is weird. Maybe I should send this to the Fidonews." So, here it is. :-)) Diary of a Cat DAY 752 - My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of furniture. Tomorrow I may eat another houseplant. DAY 761 - Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the top of the stairs. In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors, I once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite chair...must try this on their bed. DAY 762 - Slept all day so that I could annoy my captors with sleep depriving, incessant pleas for food at ungodly hours of the night. DAY 765 - Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body, in attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear into their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little cat I was ...Hmmm. Not working according to plan ...... DAY 768 - I am finally aware of how sadistic they are. For no good FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 16 12 Mar 2001 reason I was chosen for the water torture. This time however it included a burning foamy chemical called "shampoo." What sick minds could invent such a liquid. My only consolation is the piece of thumb still stuck between my teeth. DAY 771 - There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary throughout the event. However, I could hear the noise and smell the foul odor of the glass tubes they call "beer." More importantly I overheard that my confinement was due to MY power of "allergies." Must learn what this is and how to use it to my advantage. DAY 774 - I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is obviously a half-wit. The Bird on the other hand has got to be an informant. He has mastered their frightful tongue (something akin to mole speak) and speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my every move. Due to his current placement in the metal room his safety is assured. But I can wait, it is only a matter of time. -- :-) Enjoy and have a great day, Frank http://texoma.net/~flv http://bise.tzo.com/r19 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: "William Downes" To: "Warren Bonner" Ever Wonder Why? Joe Smith started the day early, having set his alarm clock (made in Japan) for 6:00a.m. While his coffee pot (made in China) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (made in Hong Kong). He put on a dress shirt (made in Sri Lanka), designer jeans (made in Singapore), and tennis shoes (made in Korea). After cooking his breakfast in his electric skillet [made in India), he sat down with his calculator (made in Mexico), to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (made in Taiwan), to the radio (made in India), he got in his car (made in Germany) and continued his search for a good-paying American job. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (made in Brazil), poured himself a glass of wine (made in France), FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 17 12 Mar 2001 and turned on his TV (made in Indonesia), then wondered why he can't find a good-paying job in AMERICA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 18 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= FRANK'S COLUMN ================================================================= Date: Monday, March 05, 2001 5:17 AM More "Ancient" History By Frank Vest If you read the article last week, I posted a document from Tom Jennings about the history of Fidonet. There are two parts to this. I guess it would be only fitting to post the second part. :) In thinking on history (not my best subject in school), I want to give a little un-scientific timeline here. Major inventions: The Wheel: Some thousands of years ago, the wheel was invented. It is still used today. The Printing Press: Not as old as the wheel, but used the wheel in its operation. Still used today. The Horse and Buggy: Pretty old. Used the wheel. Is now pretty much obsolete. The Automobile: Fairly new. Used the wheel. Still in use, but becoming obsolete as technology moves on. The Computer: Very new. What wheel?? :) While not obsolete, each new machine created is obsolete before it is released to the market. It seems that as things advance, they become "outdated" faster. The wheel exists today in many forms. The horse and buggy is pretty well outdated. Printers and copiers have done away with much of the printing press work, and the poor computer can't even make it to the market. Anyway, here's the article. :-) ---------- Begin Fido History Part 2 --------------- This is Part Two in the history of FidoNet. It turned out that the original FIDOHIST.DOC (now called FIDOHIST.DC1, or just "Part One") was useful, and many people read it. Unfortunately, by the time everyone read it, it became totally obsolete. Oh well. Here is Part Two. FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 19 12 Mar 2001 FIDOHIST.DOC covered the early history of FidoNet, why it was done, how it was done, and the reasons for the organization and obscure rituals surrounding node numbers. If you haven't read it yet, I suggest you do now, because I'll probably refer to things that won't make any sense otherwise. The original FidoNet was organized very simply; each FidoNet system (each node) had a number that served like a phone number, uniquely identifying it. The NODELIST, generated by the folks in St. Louis that had all FidoNet nodes in it, contains information on all known FidoNet systems. Every system in FidoNet had a current copy of the NODELIST, which served as the directory of systems. (In the interests of brevity I'm leaving out huge amounts of information; I hope you have read FIODHIST.DOC by now ...) FidoNet has been growing steadily since it started by accident in May 84 or so. The node list continued to get out of hand; the original FIDOHIST.DOC was written to try and help smooth things out. It is impossible to overemphasize the amount of work involved in keeping the node list accurate. Basically, the guys in St. Louis were keeping track of hundreds of FidoNet systems in Boston, Los Angeles, London, Stockholm and Sweden, and publishing the results weekly. There has never been such a comprehensive and accurate list of bulletin board systems generated. We talked for many months as to how we could possibly find a solution to the many problems; it was at the point where if a solution was not found in a few months (by Aug. 85 or so) that FidoNet would collapse due to the sheer weight of it's node list. The newsletter, FidoNews, was, and still is, an integral part of the process of FidoNet. FidoNews is the only thing that unites all FidoNet sysops consistently; please keep up to date on it, and stock it for your users if you have the disk space. And contribute if you can! There were many constraints on the kind of things we could do; we had no money, so it had to be done for zero cost. Centralization was out, so obviously localization was in; just how to do it was a total unknown. We thought of going back to having people in different areas handle new node requests in their area, but that always generated confusion as to who a person should go to, how to avoid having someone requesting a node number from different people simultaneously, etc etc. The old method of routing was very different than the current method, and much more complex; instead of Fido automatically routing to hosts, each sysop had to specify (via the ROUTE.BBS file) how all routing was done in the system. The was done originally by hand, later by John Warren's (102/31) NODELIST program. Then of course there was the problem that no matter what we did, it would not be done overnight. (ha ha.) It would take many weeks at the least, possibly months, so that whatever we did had to be compatible FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 20 12 Mar 2001 with the old method as well. We went through probably hundreds of ideas in the next few months, some possibly useful, some insane. Eventually the insanity boiled down to a pretty workable system. We chatted by FidoNet and by voice telephone. Eventually, we settled on the two part number scheme, like the phone company does with area codes and exchanges. It accommodated backwards compatibility (you can keep your present node number) and the new "area code" (net number) could be added into an existing field that had been set to zero. (This is why everyone was originally part of net #1). When a fortunate set of circumstances was to bring Ezra Shapiro and me to St. Louis to speak to the McDonnell Douglas Recreational Computer Club on XXXX 11th, we planned ahead for a national FidoNet sysops meeting that weekend. Ken and Sally Kaplan were kind enough to tolerate having all of us in their living room. The people who showed up were (need that list) The meeting lasted ten continuous hours; it was the most productive meeting I (and most others) had attended. When we were done, we had basically the whole thing layed out in every detail. We stuck with the area code business (now known as net and region numbers) and worked out how to break things up into regions and nets. It was just one of those rare but fortunate events; during the morning things went "normally", but in the afternoon solutions fell into place one by one, so that by late afternoon we had the entire picture laid out in black and white. Two or three months of brainstorming just flowed smoothly into place in one afternoon ... What we had done was exactly what we have now, though we changed the name of "Admin" to "Region", and added the "alternate" node and net numbers. (We still seem to be stuck with that terrible and inaccurate word, "manager". Any ideas?) I previously had a buggy test hack running using area codes, and the week after the meeting it was made to conform to what we had talked about that Saturday. When version 10C was done, it accomplished more or less everything we wanted, but it sure did take a long time. 10C was probably the single largest change ever made to Fido/FidoNet, and the most thoroughly tested version. At 10M, there are STILL bugs left from that early version, in spite of the testing. Once the testing got serious, and it looked like we had a shippable version, St. Louis froze the node list, and started slicing it into pieces, to give to the soon-to-be net and region managers. (That word again.) This caused a tremendous amount of trouble for would-be sysops; not only was it difficult enough to figure out how on earth to get a node number, once they did they were told node numbers weren't being given out just yet. Explaining why was even harder, since FIDOHIST.DC2 (ahem) wasn't written yet. (I have to agree, this thing is a little bit late) It was a typical case of those who already knew were informed constantly of updates, but thee in the dark had a hard time. Things were published fairly regularly FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 21 12 Mar 2001 (am I remembering "conveniently" or "accurately" on this part?) Eventually, 10C was released, and seemed to work fairly well, ignoring all the small scale disasters due to bugs, etc. We couldn't just swap over to the new area code business until very close to 100% of all Fidos were using the new version. This was (for me) an excruciating period, basically a "hurry up and wait" situation. There had not been a node list release for a month or two, and for all practical purposes it looked like FidoNet had halted ... Finally, on June 12th, we all swapped over to the new system; that afternoon, sysops were to set their net number (it had been "1" for backwards compatibility), copy in the new node list issued just for this occasion, and go. I assumed the result was going to be perpetual chaos, bringing about the collapse of FidoNet. Almost the exact opposite was true; things went very smoothly (yes, there were problems, but when you consider that FidoNet consists of microcomputers owned by almost 300 people who had never even talked to each other ...) Within a month or so,just about every Fido had swapped over to the area code, or net/node architecture. With a few exceptions, things went very smoothly. No one was more surprised than pessimistic I. At this time, August, I don't think there is a single system still using the old node number method. This is all well and fine as far as the software goes, but it made a mess for new sysops. For us sysops who have been around for a while, there was no great problem, as we saw the changes happen one by one. However, new sysops frequently came out of the blue; armed with a diskette full of code, they attempted to set up a FidoNet node. Actually, I don't understand how anyone does it. The information needed is not recorded in any place that a non sysop could find. On top of that, most of it is now totally wrong! If you follow the original instructions, it said "call Fido #1 ..." if you found a real antique, or "call Fido #51 ..." if it is more current. Of course now it tells you to find your region manager. "Region manager???" Well, a list of region managers was published in FidoNews, but unless you read FidoNews, how does anyone ever find out? I'll probably never know. ANYWAYS ... the original reason for all the changes was to DECENTRALIZE FidoNet. It just wasn't possible for Ken Kaplan to keep accurate, up to date information on every Fido in the US and Europe. The decentralization has been more or less a total success. The number of problem introduced were negligible compared to the problems solved, and even most new problems are by this time solved. It is interesting to note that with the hundreds of systems there are today, the national FidoNet hour is less crowded than it was when there were only 50 nodes. FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 22 12 Mar 2001 Please, keep in mind that no one has done anything like this before, we are all winging it, and learning (hopefully) as we go. Please be patient with problems, none of us is paid to do this, and it is more and more work as time goes on. Somehow it seems to all get done ... HOW TO GET A NODE NUMBER AND ALL THAT 20 August 1985 This is by necessity a very general idea of how it's done, and you were warned earlier that this may be obsolete this very minute; with that, here's the "current" process for starting up a new FidoNet node. You can of course skip all or part of this if you've done this before; if you haven't, well, be prepared for a lot of searching and asking questions. Of course, you need to have your Fido BBS system running first. It's probably best that you play with it for a while, and get some experience with how it all works, and whether you have the patience to run a BBS. It can get exasperating, and you will never find time to use the computer ever again. Obtain the most recent copy of the nodelist possible; this may take some searching. If you get totally lost, you can always contact Fido 125/1 or Fido 100/51; though these are very busy systems, they both usually have the very latest of anything, and can direct you to the right place. The big problem here is to find out if you are in a net or not, and if not, then who your region manager is. If you are in a large city (Los Angeles, Cincinnati, etc) then there is probably a net in your area. Look through the node list (use the N)odebook command in Fido, or a text editor) for the right area code or city. If there is no net in your area, then you are part of a region. This is a little harder, because regions are large, and sometimes cover many states. Look at all the regions in the node list, you should find a region that fits you. Once you find this, you have to contact the net or region manager to get your node number. Exactly how this is done depends on who the manager is, and how sticky they are fir details. A near universal requirement is that you send your request via FidoNet, not by manually; this isn't done to make you life difficult, but to ensure that your system is really working right. IF you manage to get a FidoNet message to the manager, its usually safe to assume that you're system is working OK. If you get a reply in return, then you know both directions work. It is usually each sysops' responsibility to go get the latest nodelist and newsletters; they are not distributed to all systems because of the expense. (Though, I'm trying to get them distributed to more places than they are now, it's sometimes very difficult to get FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 23 12 Mar 2001 a copy of the nodelist!) Again, read the fidonet newsletter regularly; it is about the only way to stay in contact with the rest of the net. Programs, problems, services, bugs and interesting announcements can always be found there. FidoNews articles don't come out of thin air; send in anything you think might be of interest. They don't have to be lifetime masterpieces, or even well written. Please remember the entire network is made of the sysops; there is no central location from which good things come, the net consists entirely of the sysops and their contributions. If you don't do it, chances are no one else will! Tom Jennings 20 Aug 85 Ken KaplanFido 100/51314/432-4129 Tom JenningsFido 125/1415/864-1418 Ben BakerFido 100/10314/234-1462 ------------ End -------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 24 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= RECIPES ================================================================= By: Kevin Jcjd Symons To: All ------------------------------------------------------------------ Title: Red Beans & Rice Categories: Newsgroups, Cast Iron, Vegetarian Servings: 12 1/2 lb kidney beans -- dry 1/2 lb pinto beans 4 c water 4 c chicken broth 2 cloves garlic 2 ea bay leaves, whole 16 oz tomatoes, canned -- pureed 4 oz pimentos -- drained 1 lg green pepper -- chopped 1 lg red pepper -- chopped 1 lg red onion -- chopped 1 lg onion -- chopped 1 c celery -- chopped 4 oz green chilies 1/4 c fresh parsley -- chopped 1 TB vinegar 1 ts salt 1 ts paprika 1/2 ts red pepper flakes 1/2 ts cumin 1/2 ts hot pepper sauce Rinse beans. Place in a dutch oven with water. Bring to a boil, simmer 2 minutes. Remove from heat. Cover and let stand 1 hour. Drain and rinse beans. Return beans to dutch oven with broth, garlic and bay leaves; bring to a boil. Reduce heat; cover and simmer 1 1/2 hours. Stir in remaining ingredients. Cover and simmer 1 hour or until beans and vegetables are tender. Remove bay leaves. Source: "Taste of Home Magazine" Copyright: "www.soar.com" Yield: "1 1/3 cups" Recipe By :Charles Moffat U/L March 2001 - From George Reinier --- FLAME v2.0/b * Origin: Braintap BBS Adelaide Oz, Internet UUCP +61-8-8239-0497 (3:800/449) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Steve Quarrella To: Warren Bonner Re: Fidonews Submission - Recipe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 25 12 Mar 2001 Since Carol is busy providing recipes, here's one from the bowels of that magnificent thing of ours, the glorious cesspool known as HOLYSMOKE. Enjoy: KITTY LITTER CAKE 1 spice or German chocolate cake mix 1 white cake mix 1 large pkg vanilla instant pudding mix 1 pkg vanilla sandwich cookies Green food coloring 12 small Tootsie Rolls 1 new (and definitely unused) kitty litter pan 1 new plastic kitty litter pan liner 1 new Pooper Scooper Prepare cake mixes and bake according to directions (any size pans). Prepare pudding mix and chill until ready to assemble. Crumble white sandwich cookies in small batches in food processor, scraping often. Set aside all but about 1/4 cup. To the 1/4 cup cookie crumbs, add a few drops green food coloring and mix using a fork or shake in a jar. When cakes are cooled to room temperature, crumble into a large bowl. Toss with half the remaining white cookie crumbs and the chilled pudding. (Mix in just enough of the pudding to moisten it. You don't want it soggy. Combine gently). Line new, clean kitty litter box. Put mixture into litter box. Put three unwrapped Tootsie rolls in a microwave safe dish and heat until soft and pliable. Shape ends so they are no longer blunt, curving slightly. Repeat with 3 more Tootsie rolls and bury in mixture. Sprinkle the other half of cookie crumbs over top. Scatter the green cookie crumbs lightly over the top. (This is supposed to look like the chlorophyll in kitty litter.) Heat 3 Tootsie Rolls in the microwave until almost melted. Scrape them on top of the cake; sprinkle with cookie crumbs. Spread remaining Tootsie Rolls over the top; take one and heat until pliable, hang it over the side of the kitty litter box, sprinkling it lightly with cookie crumbs. Place the box on a newspaper and sprinkle a few of the cookie crumbs around. Serve with a new pooper scooper. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 26 12 Mar 2001 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 27 12 Mar 2001 ================================================================= GET EMAIL ================================================================= Sun 11 Mar 01 1:54p By: David Gonzalez To: All Re: I'm back but a little bad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi ya there All! I want this on the next snooze Mr Bonner pleas :( Well it may be rare for you to see me back again and you may be asking what's going on with this guy but i had a horrible time these days. First my 4gb Hard Drive crashed after backing up everything to CDs and now i'm working with my back up machine but it's a shit it has only 256Mb HD and i can't save too many msgs I've too purge day by day. Well but my misery is not the reason of this msg i want to tell you that our Z4C is going off-line as i've told you before he's tired and he's had some trouble and he says he can keep on maintaining Z4. This episode is very sad cause Luis had been around here for some time now and i remember happily when i asked him via 2:341/12 who's DOWN too the petition for my node number and then i received the well known 4:93/0, 4:930/0 and 1 which i proudly still own and after that it was a continuos contact between both of us, cause he helped me get around with FrontDoor, AllFix and FastEcho until i could walk on my own. I remember days when i was about to throw everything away and sent my CFG files to Luis askin' him to set my programs up and he wisely said " What are you learning when you send me your files?, i can set everything up but when it crashes and i'm not around how would you fix the problem, you have to keep up and try again and again, that's the only way you'll learn " :( So it's quite a sad thing he's going off-line he's helped lots of people in our Zone the best in Fido ;). Now the guy in charge of the GateWays and all the routing and stuff here is this Zambon guy Renato Zambon (4:801/161) i truly hope he can keep up with this job 'cause personally i was the one who wanted that mission but 'cause i'm new around i wasn't even heard, but well many if not always i her more from people and talk with more people from Z1, 2 but never with my own people. I ask again What's going on here in Zone 4???... Anyway i want all of you those ones of us who knew LUIS MANTEROLA and those of you who've never even heard from him, let's ALL give him a nice Good-Bye but temporally 'cause i personally expect to still contact and talk to him. ANd remember the song "A part of my heart dies when i say Good Bye". En Buena Hora Luis |'-(( FIDONEWS 18-11 Page 28 12 Mar 2001 ------------------------------Spanish Version------------------------ Bien chicos debe ser raro para ustedes oir de mi y se preguntaran que pasa con la constancia de este tipo, pero he tenido unos dias horribles. 1ro mi disco duro de 4GB se jodio cuando hice la copia de seguridad de todo lo que tenia alli a CDs. ahora estoy trabajando en mi maquina de remplazo pero esto es una mierda porque solo tiene 256 MBs de HDD y no puedo guardar ni ficheros ni muchso mensajes, tengo que estar purgando y borrando mensajes porque sino Imaginense que pasaria. Bien pero el motivo de este mensaje no es para contarles sobre mi desgracia sino para decirl;es a los que aun no lo sepan que nuestro Coordinador de Zona 4 Luis Manterola va a dar de Baja su nodo porque esta algo cansado y porque ha tenido ciertos problemas personales y no puede mantener la zona como es debido. Este espisodio es bastante triste especialmente para mi porque Luis ha estado aqui por algun tiempo y yo personalmente y felizmente recuerdo cuando le pedi via Enrique Lopez 2:341/12 "Tambien de Baja" mi numero de nodo y me fueron asignados los ya bien conocidos por ustedes 4:93/0, 4:930/0 y 1 los que orgul;losa y solitariamente mantengo aun. Despues de esto fue un continuo contacto entre el y yo porque el me ayudo y dio animos para conigurar el FrontDoor, el AllFix, FastEcho etc hasta que yo pude soltar su mano y caminar solo. Recuerdo ewspecialmente cuando le enviaba mis archivos de configuracion y el me decia " Que vas a aprender si yo te configuro el programa, poruqe yo lo puedo hacer pero si falla, como vas tu a resolver el problema?, debes esforzarte y trtar sin desistir hasta que lo logres ". |'-((( En fin es algo bastante triste y pues Luis Dejara de funcionar el 1 de Abril. Luis mientras estuvo por estos lados ayudo a mucha gente en nuetra zona La MEJOR de Fido :). Ahhora el tipo encargado de la zona este este tio Zambon, Renato Zambon (4:801/161). Yo dee veras espero que el pueda con este trabajo prque personalmente yo era quien queria ese trabajo, pero por mi nocedad dentro de Fido ni siquiera fui escuchado, pero en fin, yo muchas veces casi la mayoria oigo de personas de la Z1, Z2, aveces de la Z3 pero nunca de mi propia gente, de la que tengo mas cerca. Yo pregunto de Nuevo. QUE PASA CON LA ZONA 4???... En todo caso yo quiero que todos nosotros quienes conocimos y estimamos a Luis Manterola y aquellos que ni si quiera sabian quien era le demos un "En Hora Buena, Que DIOS te Bendiga y sigue adelante" y recuierden esa cancion que dice " Una PArte de mi muere cuando digo Adios " En Hora