F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 50 04 Dec 2000 +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet community | "FidoNews" | | _ | 1-714-639-0377 1:1/23 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner | | | (*) | \ )) | editor@fidonews.org | | |__U__| / \// | fidonews@netscape.net | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+ ZONE ONE COORDINATOR ELECTION DISCUSSIONS THIS WEEK Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1 -=+Editorial+=- .......................................... 1 2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 3 -=+GUEST EDITORALS+=- .................................... 3 3. LAND OF THE LOST NODES ................................... 7 *****NavyNode***** ....................................... 7 4. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 9 -=+LETTERS TO EDITOR+=- .................................. 9 5. ARTICLES ................................................. 12 -=+ARTICLES+=- ........................................... 12 6. COLUMNS .................................................. 16 -=*+DALLAS' COLUMN+*=- ................................... 16 -=*+JANIS' COLUMN+*=- .................................... 23 -=*+ROSS' COLUMN+*=- ..................................... 29 +*RUTH ARGUST'S COLUMN*+ ................................. 38 7. GETTING TECHNICAL ........................................ 45 8. WE GET EMAIL ............................................. 49 -=+ECHO MESSAGES OF NOTE+=- .............................. 49 9. NET HUMOR ................................................ 54 -=*Jokes for today*=- .................................... 54 10. QUESTION OF THE WEEK .................................... 56 -=+THIS WEEKS QUESTIONS+=- ............................... 56 11. NOTICES ................................................. 59 ===+NOTICE+=== ........................................... 59 12. FIDONET BY INTERNET ..................................... 61 13. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 66 FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 66 FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 1 4 Dec 2000 ================================================================= EDITORIAL ================================================================= Hi friends in Fidoland...er, fight-o-land! I hope you all have your sense of humor caps on this week! Wow... what a week it has been. As ol' Clem Cadidalhopper says onna hot day, "Boy-howdy it's hotter'n a fire-cracker"! Well the temperature in the echoes your editor has to work with, plus phone calls and netmails, indicates it is about to reach "RED-LINE" warning level. Everyone is excited, the adrenaline level is high, and the feistiest sysops already have their contest gloves on and are swinging. I just hope that EVERYONE comes together when the election is over, and not act like Floridians... oops 'scuse me Andrea, honest I wasn't talking about you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FRIENDS Love starts with a smile, grows with a kiss, and ends with a tear. Don't cry over anyone who won't cry over you. If love isn't a game, why are there so many players? Good friends are hard to find, harder to leave, and impossible to forget. You can only go as far as you push. Actions speak louder than words. The hardest thing to do is watch the one you love, love somebody else. Don't let the past hold you back, you're missing the good stuff. Life's short. If you don't look around once in a while you might miss it. A best friend is like a four leaf clover, hard to find and lucky to have. Some people make the world special just by being in it. Best friends are the siblings God forgot to give us. When it hurts to look back, and you're scared to look ahead, you can look beside you and your best friend will be there. True friendship never ends. Friends are forever. FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 2 4 Dec 2000 Good friends are like stars....You don't always see them, but you know they are always there. Don't frown. You never know who is falling in love with your smile. What do you do when the only person who can make you stop crying is the person who made you cry? Nobody is perfect until you fall in love with them. Everything is okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end. Most people walk in and out of your life, but only friends leave footprints in your heart. Send this on to everyone special in your life, even the people who really make you mad sometimes. Remember, every minute spent angry is sixty seconds of wasted happiness. ~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 3 4 Dec 2000 ================================================================= GUEST EDITORIAL ================================================================= By: Dave Hamilton, Aurora Exploratoria (229/622) To: Warren Bonner ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Answering a question about the election choice offered to R17 sysops, RC12 Darrell Salter responded: They don't. R17, like many Regions, believe in *C partisanship. They couldn't care less about Fidonet sysops except as a manipulative tool to get what they want. The R17 Good Ole Boys prop up their own Good Ole Boy in return for favour and power. Now they're hoping the Good Ole Boys at the RC level will prop him up as Z1C. That's why they advertise him as the best of the Good Ole Boys. He is. He didn't even flinch at selling out the sysops with P4, just like Ross, and both quickly and proudly exclaimed 'What a Good Ole Boy am I'. Has nothing to do with the choice of sysops. Whichever one is elected will serve the RCs and the RCs will serve them. Watch what happens, especially for those that have helped them perform the rape of the sysops. Dallas claims he'll do away with the system that sees ZC appoint RC who in turn appoints ZC. He'll never do that. He's into acquiring power not relinquishing it. Dallas is into manipulation and will use every tool available to him, especially Pee4. It's been his modus operandi as long as I've known him. That's where he gets his kicks. That's what makes Fidonet "fun" for him. I suspect he secretly despises sysops and wants only to lord over them. He'll be positively gleeful at the prospect of being an RC-elected Z1C. Once he's there, he'll be just like Satti, and it'll be eons before we're rid of him. Ross is nowhere near as intelligent as Dallas. Ross is a yes-man claiming to represent sysops but actually doesn't represent anyone that doesn't approve of him. He'll say just about any thing to any one to get the approval his sorry, frightened ego needs. He is deathly afraid of Dallas and I suspect he craves approval, perhaps because he was ignored as a child and is seeking that approval vicariously through Fidonet. Dallas knows this and will continue as Ross' father figure. Both are extremely dangerous *C-for-lifers that will choke the life out of this network in Zone 1 if elected by their RC buddies. Their goals are identical ... Getting what they want at the expense of the sysops. They both see themselves as superior sysops, and let's face it, most RCs do. Their reasons are different and have nothing to do with the betterment of Fidonet and it's sysops. One's a manipulator, one's a yes-man. Neither one has a shred of integrity where Fidonet sysops are concerned. I wouldn't trust either one of them. What they both have going for them is that most sysops don't care if they are truly represented or not. Pee4 saw to that many years ago by giving the RCs the big stick to use against any sysop that rose up to challenge them. Remember, we just recently saw 2 RCs, one of them Dallas, pick up that stick and use it FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 4 4 Dec 2000 against any sysop that dared to exercise a choice. Look for more of the same in the future. Ross the yes-man quickly sold out the sysops and fell in line. One region and one RC alone has demonstrated any spine, and that has brought onto them P4 threats of excommunication and a carefully orchestrated hate-mongering campaign. Such is the P4-era of Fidonet, the one Tom Jennings objected to so strenuously, and it'll get much worse soon. Watch for it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Gary Gilmore To: Ruth Argust ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RA> I have not jumped to =any= candidate's defense in this election. Of course not. You're too busy trying to beat up on all of them. You seem to have all the answers, but you declined to be a candidate for the Z1C position. If you truely know how it should all work, then one would think that you'd be more than happy to help our hobby by volunteering to lead. Of course, I also respect anyone's decision to participate as much or as little as they like, but don't hold a lot of respect for those that can tell everyone how it should be done while standing on the sidelines. To those types, I can only say "Show us how it should be done by running for the position yourself". I have great respect for all the candidates for being willing to take the unfounded accusations, tarring, implications, character assasinations and general miserable attitudes of some here just for the "honor" of VOLUNTEERING, not actually DOING the job yet, but taking all this crap just for VOLUNTEERING. Then they'll have two years of being beat up all over the Fidonet echoes when they don't serve the whims of each and every individual. (That "what's in it for ME" or "what have you done for ME" syndrome. Gosh, what an honor. They probably ALL deserve to be Z1C just for putting up with it. No where in policy, or any other Fidonet document, does it state or imply that "Those that run for any office in Fidonet shall subject themselves to be covered in flaming dogshit, have their parentage questioned, be lied about and have to answer each question to the satisfaction of each and every person", but that's what happens. Some of the same people that would have poo-pooed what Clinton did as "none of our business" would hold a Z1C candidate (someone who doesn't have control of taxes or nuclear weapons) to a much, much higher standard. It's a no-win situation, and we wonder why ZCs retreat, or quit. Hmmm, can't imagine why. My "defense" of Janis wasn't a defense, it was pointing out what YOU were on about. Let's see... 1) Janis mentions FileGate in her lists of activities. 2) You state that FDNs aren't Fidonet. You say this a few times. 3) You then start to ask leading questions about FileGate stuff. {I say something here, which you call "defense".) FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 5 4 Dec 2000 4) You then toss up an old conflict you had with Janis regarding the FileGate. 4a) When some question you about it, you basically state "Well, SHE brought it up first". Cheesy. Hmmm... Seems you were using your line of questioning not because of concerns for the ZC position, but as a weapon to "get even" for some past event which you harbor a grudge over. Truely honorable. I too have had disagreements with Janis WRT the FileGate. However, I don't hold a grudge over them. I'm not going to use that against her, because I feel she's a good candidate. (Indeed, I nominated Janis because there were only 2 "real" candidates IMHO, and the rest were nominated "in spite" or because someone thought they were being funny. I don't take the ZC position lightly enough to play those games with nominees.) I wanted to see a wider playing field and more choices. Perhaps others, instead of stamping their feet and crying "THIS ELECTION IS POOPY AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY AND WE'RE GOING TO TELL OUR MOMMY ON YOU ", should have nominated candidates that they believed in, and we'd have an even larger choice, and a more varied ballot. That didn't happen, so oh well. I've had disagreements with Dallas, though I think he's a good candidate. I'm not going to hold a grudge and use this time to beat him up to get even for something in the past. I know that, if he's elected, we'll have differences, which I'm willing to work with/around/to change. I've had disagreements with Ross, though I think he's a good candidate. I'm also not going to hold a grudge and use this time to beat him up to "get even".I know that, if he's elected, we'll have differences, which I'm willing to work with/around/to change. Point being, *I* can have differences with the elected ZC without trying to sabatoge them in the election. Differences are a part of nature. Being able to deal with them on a rational and honest level are part of being an adult. Now, let's take your line of questioning. You're were obviously leading up to a "get even" sort of thing. Let your grudges go, and ask yourself "will candidate X be good for the good of Fidonet as a whole?". I think they all would be, with varying degrees of how they'll do it. The ZC is but one leader, your RC is another, and the RCs will balance out the ZC. No renegade ZC will be able to do much if your RC (and the other RCs) are bucking them on the behalf of their regions. To paraphrase "ask not what your ZC will do for you, as what you can do for Fidonet". What have -you- done for Fidonet, Ruth? What's your legacy? If you're better and have done more than these three candidates, then by all means be holier-than-thou if that's what you want. All of these people have volunteered to do things "above and beyond" those asked of Joe Average Sysop to help better the hobby, or at least a higher level of resonsibility in it. I commend them for that, and I thank them for being willing to parade around with a huge target on their backs so people like you can shoot arrows at it. FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 6 4 Dec 2000 I have no problems with any of the candidates, and look forward to the decision of my region as to who they want to lead the zone, no matter which person it is. --gary ~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 7 4 Dec 2000 ================================================================= LAND OF THE LOST NODES ================================================================= (14725) Thu 30 Nov 00 9:25p Rcvd: Sat 2 Dec 9:22a By: SHANNON TALLEY To: WARREN BONNER Re: Navy? St: Rcvd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WB>I wasn't seeking an official declaration, just an ARTICLE exalting the lifestyle of a sailor on a technically equipped ship, at sea doing what most sysops do at home land side. Would be interesting to know how the computer time is allotted, and what your duties are. What is your rate? How old are ya? Do you do two year stints between xfers? Can you get the area/base/sta/ship you choose in xfers? I wasn't looking for mil. secrets about the ship at all... they are most likely available in Mil.com anyway. ============================================= Hi Warren! I'll try and answer these to the best of my ability. I'm writing this using DOS Edit on my personal laptop using Bluewave. I connect to the ships network using a P266/NT based computer and software specially configured to the ship's system. We can't install anything special on the server simply due to the possibility that some sailor might give the network a virus. It is a very logical security precaution. Bandwidth is somewhat limited, but I can't go into details regarding our bandwidth's capabilities or limitations. I download a QWK file from my BBS at www.fidotel.com / telnet.fidotel.com. I've got a simple way to download QWK via HTML on my BBS. It's VERY handy. Simply click a URL on my QWK page, and it creates a QWK file and it's automatically Emailed it to me. I am an "Intelligence Specialist First Class" (E6). Due to my occupation, I have unfettered access to the Internet. I spend most of my day reading material generated on other networks. Some of my time is spent reading CNN Emails I have sent to me as well as doing research on some news sites. I really enjoy the "White House Press Releases" as they are distributed in Echomail. I'm 33, and I've been in the Navy nearly 14 years. I've been assigned to an F14 Squadron (jets), Naval Special Warfare (SEALs), Instructor Duty, and the ANZIO is my second ship. In "my" occupation we serve 3 years at an over-seas job or ship, and 3 years stateside (shore) duty. I have 2 years left on the ANZIO and 3 1/2 years shore duty and I will be eligible for retirement. So far, I have received orders everywhere I have requested. I am in a small and very manageable occupation, so we usually get what we want (as long as the request isn't unreasonable or outside our standard sea/shore rotation). Basically I am an information manager. I funnel the right information to the right people which helps tactical commanders make sound FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 8 4 Dec 2000 tactical decisions. The crew has unfettered access to Email unless they have abused Email in some way. Internet access is available to the crew certain times of the day or night depending on bandwidth availability or restrictions. We have a general lounge with several computers available for Email and games. Most crew members have a computer available to them in their work center. Everyone who wants to send and receive Email has a computer available to them. When I first came in the Navy, Email was never heard of. I had used Fidonet before and thought Email was just a "dream" in the Navy. The fact is, it has changed the way many of us function. "NOW" when I go to sea for a long period of time, I have my bills forwarded to me here on the ship. I then connect to my bank and write online checks which my bank mails to my creditors (for only 5.00$ per month). I receive voicemail and faxes to my 800 number using Efax.com which are then forwarded to my Email account here on the ship. I can also "Send" faxes via Email using Efax. Technology has made going to sea much more bearable than what it used to be. "Instant" mail has made staying in touch with our families so much easier. The true benefit of all this technology was that I would often record a voice message on the computer and attach it to Email and mail it to my daughter. She would reply by leaving a message at my 800 number. I could listen to her say, "I love miss you daddy". It would often bring a tear to my eye as I was trying to do my job while operating off the coast Yugoslavia in the Adriatic Sea. I realize most of this is kind of jumbled thoughts... poorly organized... I just don't have allot of time out here to sit and write a thoughtful page. Please take this, and take some literary liberty with it and see if you can make it a little more coherent. Also - please run spell check.. this DOS edit doesn't have it... :) Thank you Warren! Shannon ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5 * Origin: FidoTel on the Web! www.fidotel.com, Virginia Beach!! (1:275/311) ~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 9 4 Dec 2000 ================================================================= LETTERS TO THE EDITOR ================================================================= By: Lesley-Dee Dylan, Leftover Hippies (250/525) To: Warren Bonner Re: Snooze submission ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MY OPINIONS ON THE Z1C CANDIDATES: THE BENEVOLENT ELFLORD Dallas Hinton - This guy believes that he knows what his region wants, and needs, and he will take care of it for them. He believes he is benevolent. Hebelieves he knows best. He believes that it is in the best interest of the sysops of Fido that the existing administrative structure and power of Fido is taken care of in all cases, even if it means losing a few sysops along the way. His region in Western Canada should not be required to hold any elections, because the sysops of his region do not want them, and he knows this because hedetermines what the sysops of his region want. If The Benevolent Elflord is elected as Z1C, he will >know< our needs are that we never be bothered with anything devisive or stressful like democracy everagain. THE WOULD-BE ELFLORD Janis Kracht - This gal believes just about everything Dallas believes, withoutthe part about benevolence. She was trained by Elflord-for-Life Martin Belcke, who recently resigned his Elflord position in Region 11, turning the reins overto his best buddy Gary Gilmore. In five months, Gary has not been able to "manage" to pull an election together (his latest excuse is that there is a Z1Celection on, so the region cannot have an election at the same time - didn'tstop Region 12). Janis turns to Gary for help on all matters that are over her head, which is just about everything. Gary is the asshole who filed a policy complaint against Net 163 for providing a node number to a node in Malaysia when there was no other way for him to be in Fido. Janis is expected to lean on Gary for support for a while, then get full of herself and throw him off. When she figures out that she is not capable of handling the position, and doesneed help after all, she will turn to Dallas Hinton, and he will end up controlling the zone. Since Janis objects strongly to any hint that Region 11 should have an election for RC, do not expect to every be bothered with an election for Z1C again if she wins. THE KISS-ASS ELFLORD Ross Cassell - This mail mover does not see a conflict of interest between mailmoving and nodelist clerking. He believed that the zone should have been allowed to have a one-sysop, one-vote, non-electoral college, direct vote for the Z1C position, but backed down on his position as soon as Dallas Hinton saidno and then Ross changed his vote. This is what we can expect from Ross throughout his term as Z1C. At the end of his two-year term, Ross Cassell can be depended upon to try to hold an election for Z1C. If Dallas Hinton still wants to be Z1C, then we will have an election, so that Dallas can try to grab the reins of power. If Dallas Hinton has decided that it is better to be the puppet master behind the Z1C, and let Ross take all the flack, while Dallas holds all the power, then we FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 10 4 Dec 2000 have no chance in hell of ever having a Z1C election again. My suggestion is that the first place vote go to Ross, and the second place vote to Dallas. Janis is the biggest threat to Fido I have seen in a long time. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Michael Grant To: Ross Cassell Re: Questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Ross; A little clarification on a point or two, if you please... MG> 1. Will you work actively as Z1C to bring about changes to the Fidonet P-4.07 policy document? If these efforts produce a palatable document for the majority of members of Zone 1, will you present it to the other Zone coordinators as a possible new policy document for all of Fidonet? RC> No. If we went this route, the other zones would see this as a ZONE1 authored document. Rather we get all zones to send representativces to a committee of sorts. It is my opinion (without any proof, I readily admit) that it is mainly Zone 1 that desires change, and that the will does not exist in other zones to change the document. What steps do you think you could take to confirm or deny this from within the ZCC? Would you take the other zone coordinators at their word or would you seek opinion from individual sysops in other zones, perhaps via an independant poll? MG> If the other Zones seem opposed or indifferent to it, will you then work to have it adopted as Zone 1 policy? RC> As suggested by myself earlier, I would favor the RC> creation of a Z1 policy document. Would you prefer to first attempt making a network-wide change to the P-4.07 document over drafting a Zone 1 policy? MG> Would you attempt to remove any RC whom you discovered was going against the wishes of his or her region, if that region had no recall mechanism? What criteria would you consider a valid one for such a removal? RC> Not unilaterally. I would consult with the members of that region to find out whats going on, what they want et al? Would your consultation be mainly weighted by the sysops of the region, or would you also consult the RCC? Can you state in some form of a percentage basis if you consulted both, what the ratio of weight of consideration you would lend to each group? Thank You. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 11 4 Dec 2000 ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 12 4 Dec 2000 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= By: Steve Quarrella To: ZC Candidates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I think George brings up a good point to address. What are your thoughts on this one? * Forwarded from '** FTSC_PUBLIC' * Originally by George Roberts, 1:220/10 * Originally to Leonard Erickson * Originally dated Wed 29 Nov 2000 10:52P -*- Forwarded message follows: -*- -=> Leonard Erickson wrote to George Roberts <=- -=> Quoting George Roberts to Steve Quarrella <=- GR> I believe that the ideal would be that ANYONE who has a POTS line be listed in the nodelist based on geographic area, and that anyone who is ION be listed in a completely seperate region. That way people could easily see that the people were ION based on their node number. LE> Two problems. First, "net" numbers *aren't* as closely tied to region numbers as some folks think. I understand that. LE> Second, a number of people get *really* irate at the idea of "forcing" ION nodes into different nets. Well, I wasn't stating that we should *force* people into the ION net, just that if someone was applying for a node # in Fidonet, they could be placed in an ION net for ease of getting them set up. Do you realize that it took me weeks to get into Fido? Not because the people who I was contacting weren't helpful, because they definately were. It's because there is NO WHERE that states HOW to get into Fidonet if you are an Internet Only node. I had to happen across someone who gave me point access and then route netmails to people I thought could help. Obviously, someone who is ION with an existing node number would not be forced to switch nets. I'm just talking for ease of bringing new sysops into Fidonet. In case people haven't noticed, Fidonet's numbers are slipping... yet people are putting up telnet BBSes everyday. Why aren't we getting these people quickly and easily into Fidonet? FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 13 4 Dec 2000 Regards, George A. Roberts IV, email: groberts@nexusbbs.net Developer, Nexus Bulletin Board System http://www.nexusbbs.net/ * telnet://bbs.nexusbbs.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: David Calafrancesco To: all candidates Re: questions for the candidates... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello all! I haven't seen any platforms from any of you as of yet so we need to ask some questions to get the measure of you as potential ZCs. 1) Are you willing to bind yourself to only invoking P4.07 to solve a problem rather than prevent someone from doing what they feel needs to be done? Examples would be using P4.07 to force a node into a local geographic net against their will when they want to be listed elsewhere and have an NC/RC willing to have the listing etc... 2) Are you willing to bind yourself to accepting the will of the members of a region in selecting their own RC (eg sysop voting in a region)? 3) In Region 13 we have a local election policy that allows for a recall vote for RC, will you bind yourself to accept the results of such a recall should it ever be needed? 4) What experience do you have working with people you disagree with? 4a) Can you work with them without losing your temper? 4b) Have you lost your temper working with people you found disagreeable, if so, what happened and what were the circumstances? 5) What circumstances (other than a dead telenumber) in this day and age are sufficient to toast a node's number? 5a) Do you support leaving a 'toasted' node in the nodelist pending their appeals except in the very rare case of there being demonstrable harm to the network if the node is left in the nodelist pending the appeal? 6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO? 6a) Will they conflict with your being the ZC? 6a1) if so, what do you plan to do about them? 7) Do you feel that P4.07 needs to be fixed? 7a) If so, in what ways? 7a1) What do you feel you can do to bring about change? 8) What do you feel should be done to market this hobby to potential new customers? 9) Do you support the inclusion of IP Only nodes? 9a) Do you support IP Only nodes in coordinator positions? 9b) Do you support the creation of an IP Only region or at least an IP Only net? 9c) Do you agree that any node in north america (at least) on the internet is local to every other internet node and as such could band themselves together into a net if they so desire? FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 14 4 Dec 2000 10) What techincal changes should be made in FIDO to make it more stable and open to potential new members? Thanks... Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2 dave@drakkar.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Dallas Hinton To: Steve Quarrella Re: Suggestion for the future ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Steve -- on Nov 30 2000 at 10:06, you wrote: SQ> I think George brings up a good point to address. What are your SQ> thoughts on this one? George is absolutely right -- there is no reason why we shouldn't be contacting telnet BBSes to invite them to join FidoNet. Everybody would win, imo. Who should do this? It would make sense for the invite to come from the NC of the net the telnet system might belong to, but as ZC I'd certainly have no problem writing a message which someone could deliver on my behalf. If *I* happen to see a telnet system I'll deliver it myself, but the more eyes the better! Cheers... Dallas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Foxy Ferguson To: The Candidates Re: Questionaire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of the members of my net wish me to forward to them the candidate platforms along with voting instructions. Here are eight questions for you as a candidate. Please try to cover these concerns as succinctly as possible. 1) How long have you been a member of Fidonet? 2) What volunteer/appointed/elected positions have you held during that time? 3) What do you envision the Z1C position to entail? 4) Do you believe you have the time and wherewithall to do justice to the duties you would be called upon to perform? 5) What is your vision of Fidonet's future and what can be done to achieve it? 6) As objectively as possible, analyze yourself and indicate the qualities you possess that would have a bearing on how well FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 15 4 Dec 2000 you would be able to fulfill the Z1C job as you view it. 7) Why did you accept the nimination? 8) Why do you think you would be a =better= person for the job than the other two candidates? I, the silent ones of my net, and no doubt many others shall appreciate your response to these points and I, personally, wish to thank all three of you for deciding to seek the Z1C job, despite the obvious hazards. Regards, Foxy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By: Jack Yates To: Steven Horn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SH> In other words, David did not get a sysop election across Zone 1 (if that is what he wanted) but he did get a sysop election within each region. Since he authorized the release of the election rules that led to this, he can't have been totally upset. JY> I've watched this football get kicked from one end of the parking lot to the next and wonder why no one has realized: David Moufarrege is the ZC, yes; David is also a SysOp, one SysOp out of many in Zone 1. While David can *want* a Zonewide election that does not involve the ultimate appointment by the RCC as mandated in Policy and say so pubicly *as a SysOp*, he cannot order one *as the Zone Coordinator*. Whether some of us deny it, ignore parts oor all of it, adhere to the spirit, but not the letter, or embrace it fully, Policy 4.07 does exist and is the guiding documentof this hobby; to decree that an election such as several members of Region 12 would like may be an improvement over what has been done in the past but the Policy Wankers would call him on the carpet with a swiftness, I'm sure. Further, a Z1C could (figuratively) walk into the ZCC, sit down at the table and be told to go back and be properly appointed before taking that seat; i.e. he would be powerless in the ZCC and not particularly strong among the folks inZone 1 who still believe in Policy, of which there are more than a few. AFAIC we have the best of elections we can have at this point in time and if weare to do otherwise in the future, we should create a Zone Policy that mandates the RC reflect the choice of their regions in a Zone-wide election. However, before such a policy is created, it should be determined if the grunt SysOps of all the regions actually *want* to vote on every issue. ~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 16 4 Dec 2000 ================================================================= COLUMNS ================================================================= By: Dallas Hinton To: All Re: Z1C questions 1 of 3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Group: Now that I'm home from work and have had time to consider your questions, I'd like to try and answer them all in one big message. That way, you've got all my answers in one place! From: David Calafrancesco 1) Are you willing to bind yourself to only invoking P4.07 to solve a problem rather than prevent someone from doing what they feel needs to be done? Examples Absolutely -- one of the basics of P4, imo, is the concept that each sysop is a self-governing entity and that the purpose of Policy is define standards for us to communicate easily. In the old days, that meant enforcing zone-mail hour -- but now that's unnecessary (at least in Zone 1) and Policy should be changed. 2) Are you willing to bind yourself to accepting the will of the members of a region in selecting their own RC (eg sysop voting in a region)? Absolutely -- just I have done with NCs in Region 17, so I would do with RCs if I were the ZC. And before anyone comments, let me tell you right out that I have replaced an NC on two occasions, and closed down several nets because of missing NCs. In every case, I took those actions as a last resort, and with appropriate consultation and support from the affected members. 3) In Region 13 we have a local election policy that allows for a recall vote for RC, will you bind yourself to accept the results of such a recall should it ever be needed? Yes. 4) What experience do you have working with people you disagree with? 4a) Can you work with them without losing your temper? 4b) Have you lost your temper working with people you found disagreeable, if so, what happened and what were the circumstances? :-)) I'm a high school teacher, involved in Career Preparation (Work Experience) programs. I regularly have to deal with other teachers who disagree with letting students leave school for a week to experience the work world. We're still able to sit together in the staff room. :-) I HAVE lost my temper with some -- I do my best to bite my tongue and go away until I can regain my temper -- if necessary, I apologize to them and try again. FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 17 4 Dec 2000 5) What circumstances (other than a dead telenumber) in this day and age are sufficient to toast a node's number? Beats me -- I'm sure there are some (Major and repeated spamming comes to mind) but I sure don't want to make up a blanket rule. Such things should be dealt with on a case by case basis with input from all affected parties, and from the RC council. RCs tend to have a lot of people skills, for the most part, as well as technical skills and it would be foolish of any ZC to ignore that resource. 5a) Do you support leaving a 'toasted' node in the nodelist pending their appeals except in the very rare case of there being demonstrable harm to the network if the node is left in the nodelist pending the appeal? Yes, even if it means providing an independent number (I've had to do that on one occasion). 6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO? 6a) Will they conflict with your being the ZC? 6a1) if so, what do you plan to do about them? I'm currently RC 17, and will be resigning that in early Spring, regardless of the outcome of this election. If I am chosen as ZC, I'll resign earlier. I move a small amount of mail for a small group of friends -- I don't see any conflict there. 7) Do you feel that P4.07 needs to be fixed? 7a) If so, in what ways? 7a1) What do you feel you can do to bring about change? P4 is badly out of date. Much of it is still quite workable ("too easily annoyed", for example) but other parts are just plain ridiculous (Zone mail hour) or fuzzy (ION). I believe I can bring together good people to redraft P4. A multi-stage approach will be needed, first to amend the revision process, then to do the actual revisions. Along the way, we may be able to use a Zone Policy to help accomplish what we (as a group of sysops) decide we want our hobby's policy to be. 8) What do you feel should be done to market this hobby to potential new customers? I've a number of ideas, but again I'd like to get input from the zone rather than trying to play the expert. I'm a coordinator, not a expert with all the answers. 9) Do you support the inclusion of IP Only nodes? Yes, absolutely. 9a) Do you support IP Only nodes in coordinator positions? With some hesitation, yes. The hesitation is that I think it's important that no sysop become disenfranchised by losing the ability to contact his/her coordinators even though s/he has only POTS connectivity. I've seen several suggestions for work-arounds, and I FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 18 4 Dec 2000 suspect we'll have to again deal with this situation case by case. 9b) Do you support the creation of an IP Only region or at least an IP Only net? 9c) Do you agree that any node in north america (at least) on the internet is local to every other internet node and as such could band themselves together into a net if they so desire? Yes on b and c. I already have an IP net in my region, although it's not exclusively IP. 10) What technical changes should be made in FIDO to make it more stable and open to potential new members? I wish I knew! Obviously we have to use the Internet to make echomail and filebone transfers fast and affordable. Equally obvious, those of us still running a BBS need to maintain POTS and (I'm working on this for my system) add Telnet capability. Beyond that, I think it's time we got some of our good people writing/assembling turn-key packages that will work as well as a Yahoo- type email account. Connectivity first, then technical knowledge -- goodness knows I couldn't have got MY system running without help and the challenge was to find that help! Continued to next message.... By: Dallas Hinton To: All Re: Z1C questions 2 of 3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi All -- following up a message from Dallas Hinton to you: From : Foxy Ferguson 1) How long have you been a member of Fidonet? I set up my first system on March 1, 1988, and joined FidoNet almost at once. 2) What volunteer/appointed/elected positions have you held during that time? NEC (2 years, I think), NC (2 years), and RC (7 years) 3) What do you envision the Z1C position to entail? The most important job, of course, is Nodelist building and distribution (yes, a nodelist clerk!). However, other jobs (in no particular order of importance) include representing Zone 1 to the other ZCs, coordinating the Zone as a whole (through a representational process that starts with the individual sysop and works up through the NC / RC chain), hearing any policy complaints or appeals beyond the RC level, and coordinating the formation and work of various groups to develop software packages, FidoNet advertising packages, and Policy revisions, and, of course, providing technical assistance wherever possible. 4) Do you believe you have the time and wherewithall to do justice to FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 19 4 Dec 2000 the duties you would be called upon to perform? I do, or I wouldn't have accepted the nomination. I gave it a lot of thought and discussion before deciding, and my wife still thinks I'm nuts! :)) I'm close to taking early retirement from work; I have most evenings free at home, and have a lot of experience as a coordinator. 5) What is your vision of Fidonet's future and what can be done to achieve it? I think I've addressed that in my earlier message. 6) As objectively as possible, analyze yourself and indicate the qualities you possess that would have a bearing on how well you would be able to fulfill the Z1C job as you view it. I've had close to 20 years as a teacher of adolescents, and I'm still (mostly) sane. I've spent most of those years persuading administrators to give my programs more money (with some successes and some failures). I'm a reasonably calm person and can usually find the humour in things that go wrong! I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. And yes, I think I can even work with Ward, despite our philosophical differences! 7) Why did you accept the nomination? Sheer stupidity? (see above) :-) 8) Why do you think you would be a =better= person for the job than the other two candidates? I'm not sure I do think that. I believe that any of the three of us would do a good job for FidoNet, and if I'm not the winner I won'