F I D O N E W S Volume 16, Number 07 15 February 1999 +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet community | "FidoNews" | | _ | +27-41-515-913 [5:5/23] | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editor: | | | (*) | \ )) | Henk Wolsink 5:7104/2 | | |__U__| / \// | | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | Submission address: FidoNews Editor 5:5/23 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | submissions=> editor@fidonews.org | | hwolsink@catpe.alt.za | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of FidoNews or the internet gateway FAQ | | please refer to the end of this file. | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1 2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 2 Cat Fight in the Backbone - Douglas Myers ................ 2 3. ARTICLES ................................................. 4 ECHO TALK - Kay Shapero on Cooperation ................... 4 4. NOTICES .................................................. 5 5. FIDONET BY INTERNET ...................................... 6 6. FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 10 FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 1 15 Feb 1999 ================================================================= EDITORIAL ================================================================= Greetings, And you had a good Valentine's Day? Great! And what happens now, that Billy is found not guilty? What a circus that was. Such a waste of money, only the guys in the US of A can do. Well, I suppose it's all part of politics, which only the people in Zone 1 can understand. ;-) What is happening in Zone 2, Region 29? I believe there are some very disgruntled SysOps there, who just had it with their Z2C. And my sympathy to all the Jordanians on the loss of their King. Read well, ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 2 15 Feb 1999 ================================================================= GUEST EDITORIAL ================================================================= Cat Fight in the Backbone Cat Fight in the Backbone Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, doug@mdtnbbs.com Arguments in the BACKBONE echo were described a while back as "Cats tossing sand at each other." The cats have abandoned scratching the sand in favor of scratching each other :( In the last two weeks, John Souvestre has been asked to leave the NAB, George Peace has been asked, Ken Wilson has been criticized for holding echomail, Butch Walker has been asked to resign as OBO, and several other mail movers have been invited to leave. One could easily get the impression that these folks don't want to work together any more. There have been some technical problems, for sure... but the arguments have moved beyond problem resolution and into the realm of punishment for those who have failed to move the mail in an acceptable manner. The conversation has strayed from how to best make the mail move for Fidonet as a whole to a discussion on who is the "best" mail mover. Echomail and Netmail are still moving*, though one questions how long it will continue if the mail movers don't want to work with each other. Cooperation is especially critical in a hobby, because the only real incentive to making things work is the satisfaction which each individual derives. Figure out how to work together, folks. I don't know how to restore enjoyment to the hobby for you all, but I'll make a few suggestions: 1. Remember the contributions which each of the mail movers has made to Fido instead of concentrating on the individual weaknesses or failures. Now is a time for restoring the satisfaction to the hobby, not a time for picking each other apart. 2. Concentrate on one technical problem at a time, rather than trying to draw a broad principle from each one. Now is a time for making things work, not pledging allegiance to policy documents. 3. Stop asking each other to leave. It's true that Fido could probably work without any specific individual, but the "invitations" foster an atmosphere where no one will want to pick up the slack. A while back, I'd been impressed with echomail from Kay Shapero, so I'd saved it. Though it was written before the current round of infighting in the BACKBONE echo, it applies. I've submitted it as a separate article. * Ironically, I was cut off from echomail and netmail for a couple FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 3 15 Feb 1999 of days this week. So far as I know at this point, it was a local problem - My NC couldn't connect with George Peace - and it's been resolved, but I was wondering if the big boys had pulled the plug... ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 4 15 Feb 1999 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= ECHO TALK - Key Shapero on Cooperation . -- -- -- -- -- ECHO TALK -- -- -- -- -- . | Food for thought from Fido's echomail. | | Purloined without permission by D Myers | ` -- -- -- -- -- -- - -- -- -- -- -- -- ' Kay Shapero on Cooperation -------------------------- DM> I remember that cooperation stuff. I think it got replaced by DM>P4 about ten years ago :( Actually it still goes on (speaking as one of the folks who just finished voluntarily notifying every moderator who hadn't checked in since the change of echolist keeper, to make sure they knew where to mail their updates). What people tend to forget is that P4 is a set of operational rules, not laws. Operational rules tell you how to do something, and if you don't follow them it doesn't get done. Laws tell you what you MUST do (or not do) under pain of enforcement. Operational rules can be pretty broad, so long as the necessary information appears in sufficient detail that the reader can figure out how to do it right. Laws have to be incredibly specific, in order to avoid loopholes. Operational rules are like explaining to a human being; laws are more like programming a computer. And ultimately, operational rules exist on the assumption that those involved intend to cooperate, laws on the assumption that a significant fraction do NOT. I submit that there isn't enough true enforcement power in the entirety of FIDOnet to convert it into a true rule by law organization, but that the attempt, if carried through forcefully enough can kill it. I know I'd be unlikely to hang around... and like the rest of us I do have other places to go. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 5 15 Feb 1999 ================================================================= NOTICES ================================================================= Future History 16 Feb 1999 13th Anniversary of the introduction of EchoMail by Jeff Rush. 12 May 1999 12th Anniversary of Fido Operations in Zone 4; 10th Anniversary of the creation of FidoNet Zone 4. 24 Jul 1999 XIII Pan American Games [through 8 Aug 99]. 9 Jun 1999 Tenth Anniversary of the adoption of FidoNet Policy 4.07. 10 Sep 1999 10th anniversary of Zone 5 operations. 26 Oct 1999 Thirty years from release Abbey Road album by the Beatles. 31 Dec 1999 Hogmanay, Scotland. The New Year that can't be missed. 1 Jan 2000 The 20th Century, C.E., is still taking place thru 31 Dec. 1 Jun 2000 EXPO 2000 World Exposition in Hannover (Germany) opens. 15 Sep 2000 Sydney (Australia) Summer Olympiad opens. 21 Sep 2000 10 years of FidoNet in +7 (xUSSR) 1 Jan 2001 This is the actual start of the new millennium, C.E. -- If YOU have something which you would like to see in this Future History, please send a note to the FidoNews Editor. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 6 15 Feb 1999 ================================================================= FIDONET BY INTERNET ================================================================= This is a list of all FidoNet-related sites reported to the FidoNews Editor as of this issue; see the notice at the end. FidoNet: Homepage http://www.fidonet.org FidoNews http://www.fidonews.org [HTML] http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html [ASCII] WWW sources http://travel.to/fidonet/ FTSC page http://www.ftsc.org/ Echomail [pending] General http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html http://www.nrgsys.com/orb/foti List servers: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion ============ Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org Region 10: http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/ Region 13: Net 264: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm Region 14: Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/ Region 17: http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/ Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/ Region 19: http://www.compconn.net/r19 Zone 1 Elist http://www.baltimoremd.com/elist/ Not sure where the following should be placed: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/snwvlly/fido.html ============ Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org ZEC2: Zone 2 Elist: http://www.fbone.ch/echolist/ Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish) FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 7 15 Feb 1999 Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish) Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German) Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/~lbehet/fido (English/German) Region 25: http://www.bsnet.co.uk/net2502/net/ Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French) Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German) Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian) Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish) REC34: http://pobox.com/~chr Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/ Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English) Region 42: http://www.fido.cz Region 48: http://www.fidonet.org.pl Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian) Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian) Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian) Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English) Net 5073: http://people.weekend.ru/soa/ (Russian) ============ Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org ============ Zone 4: Region 90: http://visitweb.com/fidonet Net 903: http://www.playagrande.com/refugio Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish) ============ Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/index.htm ============ Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 8 15 Feb 1999 Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html (Chinese) ============ Pages listed above are as submitted to the FidoNews Editor, and generally reflect Zone and Regional Web Page sites. If no Regional site is submitted, the first Network page from that Region is used in its place. Generally, Regional pages should list access points to all Networks within the Region. TCP/IP accessible node access information should be submitted to the FidoNews Editor for inclusion in their Region or Zone. -----------oOo------------- Fidonet Via Internet Hubs Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed | Basic Rate -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------ 1:12/12 | Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo. 1:13/25 | Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo. 1:106/1 | Matt Bedynek | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 64k | $5/$15mo. 1:106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP,VMoT | 64k | $5/mo. 1:107/451 | Andy Knifel | FTP, VMoT, UUE | 33.6 | n/c 1:124/7008 | Ben Hamilton | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 64k | $10/$20mo. 1:140/12 | Bob Seaborn | FTP | T1 | $5/$20 1:270/101 | George Peace | FTP | T1 | $30mo. 1:271/140 | Tom Barstow | UUE | T1 | n/c 1:275/1 | Joshua Ecklund | UUE | 28.8 | $10/yr. 1:280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo. 1:2401/305 | Peter Rocca | FTP,UUE | T1 | unkn 1:2424/10 | Alec Grynspan | FTP,UUE | T1 | n/c 1:2604/104 | Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo. 1:2624/306 | D. Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | $15yr. 1:345/0 | Todd Cochrane | FTP | T1 | n/c 1:346/250 | Aran Spence | FTP,UUE | T1 | $10mo. 1:396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr. 1:3651/9 | Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6 1:396/1 | John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1 | $15mo. 2:33/505 | Mario Mure | VMoT,UUE | 64k | n/c 2:254/175 | Alex Kemp | UUE | 56k | n/c 2:284/800 | Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c 2:335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c 2:469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c 2:2411/413 | Dennis Dittrich | UUE | 64k | n/c 2:2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn 3:633/260 | Malcolm Miles | FTP | 33.6 | n/c 4:905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT, UUE | ??? | n/c 5:7104/2 | Henk Wolsink | FTP | 28.8 | n/c -- * FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol * VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various) * UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers [I'm only cataloging transfer methods, eg, ftp, email, telnet. Specific programs using these protocols are no longer being listed. Contact the system operators for details of which programs they have FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 9 15 Feb 1999 available.] Compiled by C. Ingersoll, 1:2623/71, (609)814-1978, fbn@dandy.net Posted on the 1st of every month in FN_SYSOP, R13SYSOP and Fidonews. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 10 15 Feb 1999 ================================================================= FIDONEWS INFORMATION ================================================================= ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ------- Editor: Henk Wolsink Editors Emeriti: Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg "FidoNews Editor" FidoNet 5:5/23 BBS +27-41-515-913, 2400/9600/V.34/V.90 more addresses: Henk Wolsink -- 5:7104/2, hwolsink@catpe.alt.za (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews Editor P.O. Box 12325 Port Elizabeth, 6006 South Africa ------------------------------------------------------ FidoNews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. OPINIONS EXPRESSED in these articles ARE THOSE OF THE AUTHORS and not necessarily those of FidoNews and/or the Editor. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright (C) 1999 Henk Wolsink. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. 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INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via: http://www.fidonews.org ** http://www.fidonet.org/fidonews.htm ** ftp://ftp.fidonet.org/pub/fidonet/fidonews/ ftp://ftp.irvbbs.com/fidonews/ ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/Fidonet/Fidonews And in non-English formats via: ** http://www.hvc.ee/pats/fidonews (Estonian) http://www.fidonet.pp.se/sfnews (Swedish) ** LINK HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED *=*=* You may obtain an email subscription to FidoNews by sending email to: jbarchuk@worldnet.att.net with a Subject line of: subscribe fnews-edist and no message in the message body. To remove your name from the email distribution use a Subject line of: unsubscribe fnews-edist with no message to the same address above. * You may retrieve current and previous Issues of FidoNews via FTPMail by sending email to: ftpmail@fidonews.org with a Subject line of: help and FTPMail will immediately send a reply containing details and instructions. When you actually make a file request, FTPMail will respond in three stages. You find a link for this process on www.fidonews.org. *=*=* You can read the current FidoNews Issue in HTML format at: http://www.fidonews.org STAR SOURCE for ALL Past Issues via FTP and file-request - Available for FReq from 1:396/1 or by anonymous FTP from: ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ FIDONEWS 16-07 Page 12 15 Feb 1999 Each yearly archive also contains a listing of the Table-of-Contents for that year's issues. The total set is currently about 13 Megs. =*=*=*= The current week's FidoNews are now also available almost immediately after publication on the FidoNews Editor homepage on the World Wide Web at: http://209.77.228.66/fidonews.html There are also links there to jim barchuk's HTML FidoNews source and to John Souvestre's FTP site for the archives. There is also an email link for sending in an article as message text. Drop on over. =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews Editor, or file-requestable from 5:5/23 [5:7104/2] as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". ALL Zone Coordinators should have copies of ARTSPEC.DOC. Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141, and are used with permission. "Disagreement is actually necessary, or we'd all have to get in fights or something to amuse ourselves and create the requisite chaos." -Tom Jennings -----------------------------------------------------------------