F I D O N E W S -- Volume 15, Number 9 2 March 1998 +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet community | "FidoNews" | | _ | 1-209-251-7529 [1:1/23] | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editor: | | | (*) | \ )) | Zorch Frezberg 1:205/1701 | | |__U__| / \// | | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: FidoNews Editor 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | submissions=> zorch@fidonews.org | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of FidoNews or the internet gateway FAQ | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Whew! This *is* long! Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1 2. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 3 3. ARTICLES ................................................. 12 IP FidoNet in Region 33 .................................. 12 A Summation .............................................. 13 4. TRUE STORIES OF FIDONET .................................. 17 The "Larry (Larry-bud) Jaster" story ..................... 17 5. COORDINATORS CORNER ...................................... 26 Z1EC Election Results .................................... 26 Nodelist-statistics as seen from Zone-2 for day 058 ...... 68 6. NOTICES .................................................. 69 Future History ........................................... 69 7. FIDONEWS PUBLIC-KEY ...................................... 70 FidoNews PGP public-key listing .......................... 70 8. FIDONET BY INTERNET ...................................... 71 9. FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 73 FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 1 2 Mar 1998 ================================================================= EDITORIAL ================================================================= Most people presume that an editor has enough knowledge of the reader base out there to present an insightful and 'pleasing-to-the-eye' style of publication. Then there is the case of one sysop and hub operator who insists that unless the *full* 87K of the Zone 1 EchoMail Coordinator election results are not posted, some sort of collusion is going on. So, to satisfy his quest for information and his insistence, it is now here. To those of you in the *OTHER* Zones, I apologize, but since John has decided to personally direct editorial policy in the FidoNews, feel free to assess his efforts in editorial control to John Souvestre at 1:396/1 , or at his E-Mail address of john@sstar.com. To all Zone 1 sysops: The election protest period will be over and done on March 8, 1998. Several more relevant and important points... I'm having problems with some of the messages being sent to me...are these for _me_, or for "The FidoNews Editor"? Since these all of these appear to be for FidoNews or gave permission to be published, I have...but please be more careful in sending me things via NetMail or E-Mail. If it is for the next FidoNews, please indicate that by sending it to "FidoNews Editor". I'll see it... Also, with an aside to some at the Zone level, your nodelist is very much out of date. This is currently NODELIST.058, not NODELIST.044. On another point, and to all who would submit articles for FidoNews publication, I refer you to the file (MagicFileName ARTSPEC) called ARTSPEC.DOC. It is also available for view or download at my own Web Site at http://209.77.228.66/fidonews (look for the link). An updated copy has been hatched out as well. I'll point out now that if I have to hand-edit a message to fit the 70-character line limit, I will include the standard newspaper tear line of "### 30 ###" to indicate the article was modified by myself to fit. As always, we'll print what you send 'as-is' in all instances, though we may send it back to you for 'clean-up'. See the ARTSPEC.DOC for details. There is a complaint in one echo that NECs in some networks are claiming the 'power' to decide from who and when a sysop can get an EchoMail feed, and no changes can be made without the NEC granting permission. Perhaps this is a misinterpretation of a local "no dupes" policy; perhaps it is something worse. Anyone know of this situation? Also noted is that Net 163 has upped the ante on the pending Policy Complaint by picking up nodes in several nations and Zones, as well as one totally non-existant phone number for a node. There doesn't FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 2 2 Mar 1998 seem to be an "867" area code or country code...anyone know of one? Anyone know if the node in Malaysia listed in Net 163 is still active and operating? To that extent, and with some modification needed to fit it in, some one in Region 33 sent a copy of the R33 IP Nodelist, one of the new 'supplemental' nodelists to meet the needs of a FidoNet growing in a new direction, but without the benefit or support of either Policy or FidoNet itself. One point coming out of the FIDONEWS echo...there seems to be a consensus developing over the inclusion of the "page breaks" in the general publication of FidoNews...are these being used by anyone out there? Or is there a predominance to find a way to dump them? Your comments on this are solicited. Another point of concern is the various 'national' or 'regional' versions of the FidoNews out there. I've run across several, and would ask that the editors of these send me the URL for each, and the Region that they are published for inclusion in the InterNet section of the FidoNews. I also invite the editors of each one to contact me so that we can come up with a way to set up translations. Granted, Policy indicates that English is the "common tongue" in FidoNet, but Policy also encourages the free translation of FidoNet documents into other languages as well. It would be nice to have a roster for those who wish to see the Snooze in all the languages it is available in, no? Next to last...we get lots of mail...analysis of the Z1EC election and a lesson on statistical analysis to boot; responses to prior news; a comment or two on the new FidoNews; and more. And, lastly...articles, articles, articles. Send them in. From anywhere, on any thing, by anyone. Just use the ARTSPEC instructions to make sure that the publication software doesn't choke. Shoot, we even do guest editorials... -zf- ===================================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 3 2 Mar 1998 ================================================================= LETTERS TO THE EDITOR ================================================================= >from Matt McCarthy, 1:396/1.4 Hi Zorch. RE: FIDOECHOPOL, my thoughts. Since my NAB_POLICY is still getting linked I threw out the following 'off-topic' post to possibly stir interest, but see that the topic is better suited to FIDOECHOPOL where I've not requested write access. If you consider this 'annoying', please let me know. If I can be of any assistance to you for FIDONEWS, please let me know also. ================================(copied from NAB_POLICY) 008/010 24 Feb 98 10:32:42 From: Matt Mc_Carthy To: Dale Shipp Subj: Moderators Status -+------------------------------- In a message of <23 Feb 98 13:13:08>, Dale Shipp (1:261/1466) writes: So long as the rules have not been posted, this should be fair game: Copied from FIDOECHOPOL: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 020/021 23 Feb 98 01:58:14 From: Dale Shipp To: Steven Horn Subj: Re: Moderators and what -+-------------------- <> SH>Why would their being able to do their job more effectively SH>be against their best interests? They already have to have SH>access to their echo and be able to receive and send SH>netmail so is much more being asked? DS>Being on the nodelist would have almost no effect on a moderator DS>being able to do their job. Moderators are concerned with the DS>content of their echos. Sysops are concerned with moving mail DS>(and providing a BBS for users in many cases). Each job is DS>vital -- but one person does not have to do it all. DS>The only effect of a rule requiring moderators to be on the DS>nodelist would be to eliminate many good moderators. Nothing DS> would be gained. Well, we'd gain the right to vote, for whatever that's worth. Next reply from John Glinski: FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 4 2 Mar 1998 JG>which is that there maybe numerous moderators that will not wish JG>to comply with a nodelisted membership requirement to retain JG>their moderator status in Fido. They know that makes them JG>directly answerable to P4, a freedom which right now they enjoy JG>and probably will not wish to forfeit. John G's reply makes no sense. He would have the moderators become nodes just to be nodelisted? To what end? The resultant 'node' would certainly be subject to P4, but NOT the moderator. The word "moderator" is not to be found in P4, period. What John G. wants to propose is that 'all cars _must_ have trailers attached to them because we have rules for towing trailers, but nothing for cars'. Just some ideas for your FIDOECHOPOL discussion. I've not requested 'write' permission, and would rather not at this time. Too much to do here if we can get enough interest. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ As much as I hate to admit it, Bob M. is correct, but for the wrong reasons (if he's lurking, _that_ should wake him). :-) We _don't_ own our echoes, and in fact, there is _no_ policy anywhere that even gives us the authority to make our own rules for 'our' echoes, nor to authorize us to insist that users follow the rules. P4 makes 'enough' reference to "echomail" to cover that subject for the time being, but often refers to "echomail" as something that should be scraped from our shoes should we step in it. Heaven forbid if a node sends echomail during ZMH, and if a node gets too much "echomail" he can be restricted to 20 messages per day. P4 is in _SERIOUS_ need of a re-write! Times have changed! 1989, sheesh! Small wonder so many nodes are leaving. What we _DO_ need is a FIDONET 'moderator' policy. Something like: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Echomail" ---------- Echomail is the term used within FidoNet to refer to electronic "Conference Mail" messages that, while possibly containing the name of a particular individual in the "To:" field, are copied and distributed to multiple (possibly several hundred) destination systems. Echomail messages are segregated into "Conferences" based upon the topic being discussed. Echomail message content is usually restricted to the topic(s) for which the particular conference was created. The originators of each of those "Conferences", as well as their designees and successors are called "Moderators", and during their stewardship of their res- pective "Conferences" are empowered to establish and enforce rules of conduct and topicality to which users are enjoined to adhere. Moderators are responsible for insuring the topicality and decorum FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 5 2 Mar 1998 of their respective "Conferences" in consonance with their published rules. To accomplish this responsibility, a moderator may request that a user absent himself from the "Conference". When a user in that category fails to comply, the moderator may request the assistance of that user's SysOp, node, or hub, whichever is the lowest appropriate level, to effect the absence of that user from the "Conference". +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wording from "Echomail is..." down to "The originators..." was extracted verbatim from the FIDONET document GATEWAY.POL. Feel free to use this any way you wish! Good luck... M. ========================================== There is nothing 'private' in this message Zorch, feel free to use its content any way you wish. Thanks, M. ### 30 ### --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- >From Deb Milner, 1:112/285 It was with interest that I read Wulf Kreuger's article in a recent edition of FidoNews regarding the filtering/censorship that took place in Zone 2, after all, it's not the first time this type of thing has happened. Since last year, when a private CRP hub in Net 112 did the exact same thing to other sysops, ie: filtering and removing all echomail messages to/from individuals that particular hub operator had a dislilke for, I have been warning that unless some type of action is taken to prevent hubs from filtering indiscriminately, that it would happen again. It did. Both here in Net 112, by the same CRP, and now I read that it also happened in Zone 2, by Fidonet "officials", no less. Folks, if we allow it to continue, anyone, anywhere is going to start filtering/censoring echomail based on their personal dislike of others. Think about what this will mean to the integrity of the echomail areas you are receiving and reading, or even the mail you are sending. Echopol is a hotly debated subject, but an echopol could stop it. If not an echopol, we need to do something. What say you? --------------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 6 2 Mar 1998 ----------------------------------------------------------------- > From Alan Rackmill, 1:107/101 + Forwarded (from: Z1_ELECTION) by Alan Rackmill using timEd/2 1.01. + Originally from Alan Rackmill (1:107/101) + Originally to John Souvestre (1:396/1) + Original dated: Feb 28 '98, 13:45 Zorch, you can publish this in the Snooze if you want. Alan ====================================================================== John Souvestre wrote in a message to Alan Rackmill: JS> Hello Alan. JS> Case in point: You released this week's issue at 18:00 PT? JS> It didn't get here till 05:00, 11 hours later. AR> And that means that fidonet is going to fall apart because of AR> that time difference? JS> No, it just worries people when they can get the latest game JS> from the other side of the world in 6 hours but it takes 18 JS> to get FidoNews. :-) So what? The internet and fidonet are totally different things. They do things in a different way. If you NEED to have the Snooze that fast, then you oughta get a better life. This is a hobby John, although I know you make some money off it. Or maybe you don't. There are many other things that are more important than whether it takes 6 hours or 18 hours to get out. At this point in time, fidonet is the absolutely last thing in order of importance to me. Why should I worry about when Fidonews arrives when I had thyroid surgery to remove a malignant tumor, scheduled for 2/6/98 cancelled, because I had a stroke on 2/4/98. And now that the effects of the stroke are almost gone, and I am back to normal there, my kidneys are failing so that I will probably be going on dialysis very shortly. And that doesn't even get into my chronic Congestive Heart Failure, Coronary Artery Disease, High Blood Pressure, Arthritis and Gout. FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 7 2 Mar 1998 All of which are acting up. So, do you really thing I should get upset because it takes a little longer for the Snooze, or anything else, for that matter, to get to my system? No chance. But that doesn't mean that I am just going to sit by while you try to screw everything up because you can't control it, you can think again. It is about time you stepped back and stopped trying to take over everything, and trying to destroy what you can't control and get back to what this hobby is all about: Communicating with the other sysops and HELPING them when they need help. Alan Team OS/2, Fidonet 1:107/101, ibmNET 40:4371/101, OS2NET 80:135/15 internet: alanrackmill@mindspring.com ___ timEd/2 1.01 - Origin: The Maven's Roost * MAX/2 * WARP * v.34 1-908-821-4533 (1:107/101) ### 30 ### ----------------------------------------------------------------- An open comment to first, Bob Satti and then, all. It's from someone who genuinely cares about FidoNet, has the ability to operate within its scheme of things and, I think, has helped draw out a proper viewpoint from some of those who do care, in a proper way. Specifically, my congratulations to Bob Kohl.. He has demonstrated an interesting perspective in the dynamics of FidoNet opinion gathering... as have I by losing in the way I did. Now lets's examine that.... chuckle........... This has nothing to do about my losing or Bob winning. Please do *NOT* make the mistake of thinking this is sour grapes. Winning or losing is frankly not that important to me; FidoNet is. To those who voted for me, *THANK YOU VERY MUCH*. I had been wondering about what to do about spending time on Fido in the future. For anyone not known in Zone-wide circles to have done this well tells me there is a place for what we stand for. We should march forward. :) First, a *HUGE* vote of confidence and thanks to EC Martin Belcke for doing one of the most important jobs in Fido's history and doing it FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 8 2 Mar 1998 very well. I respect work. I admire good work. Martin's work was good work. Thanks also to Lisa Gronke. Yes, folks, she did a fine job. From here on, this is all about, "What if?" It is administrative analysis of what we must do to keep FidoNet as alive and well as can be expected, under the circumstances. I think I speak for all who supported me; I hope so. Skip the details of a vote not counted or a percentage point not rounded. This is about the big picture, including the small stuff. In this ballot process format I counted a published 314 votes: 25% or 78 - voters - cooperated with full vote choice slates. 44% or 139 - voters - refused to use it, voting a single vote. No, I'm not in favor of holding elections like P4 suggests, with a simple majority of those bothering to vote in a single round settling matters on big issues. As a "suggested" P4 format election, the "winner" would have had a 45 vote first round "win." That vote method would have said nothing that *MOST* of the few willing to help guide Fido are *NOT* happy with the way things are. This is not a minor issue; it is a biggee. It's critical to address this group for Fido to live. For FidoNet to survive, we must learn better how to upgrade the appointment game to walk a finer line between appointment and elections to best determine where that line is. Yes, FidoNet is not a democracy. I'm comfortable about that as a FidoNet member, NC and proponent. Yet, this election was so important because it was the best sounding board we have had for determining how to define that line, properly used. This election was crucial in a far greater sense, because the *FORMAT* of the election, preferential balloting, gave us a chance to really learn something about Fido and what may be really wrong. However, this *SPECIFIC* form of a preferential ballot may not be what is needed to save FidoNet. This preferential ballot format was, I think, an error. By counting partial ballot votes not carried to the full depth, we will never know what the MAJORITY really wanted. Refusing to fill it out completely, said, "I'm out of here", then silence. We can't afford that. More than half the voters didn't want it. They said so. Forced on them, although they cared and made an effort to get something done for the real majority wish in FidoNet, their real wants have, again, been stripped from them. This has nothing to do with who won or lost. We *ALL* lost: 1.) Only 78 or 24% of the total 314 voters were damned well firm about what they wanted from the start. Only this one-fourth of the voters bothered to vote a whole rank of candidates. On first round stats, as a "P4 compliant" election, (Just guidelines!), that would have produced a firm 45 vote "margin" for the "winner." Done that way, the simple majority of votes cast, I hold, would do a really bad job of producing any true view of the electorate. This election proved that, I think. FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 9 2 Mar 1998 2.) In this "ending", the "winner" had a 30 vote "margin", but won nothing. Run this way, 139+109=248 or 79% of the voters 'fixed' their opinion at the end. However, that's not the real story! The full 139 voters who wouldn't use the ballot format never really "voted." The "results" of the election merely indicate almost *HALF* of the entire crew just gave up messing with it. 3.) In my opinion, the total vote *DECLINED* from what it *COULD* have been, because of the ballot format! That's sad. These were people from which we badly needed to hear views. The worst part about preferential voting was also very beautifully shown here! Two top candidates together produced total first round results of 72+117=189 votes, more than the required 159 to win on the first round. The second and third place 72+54=126 votes were not enough to win. A run-off would have been between the top two candidates. In a conventional election, a waning candidate often declares support for someone else, if they wish, at run-off time. I believe this markedly alters elections. Thus a preferential ballot, in general, stole that opportunity away from FidoNet at a time when we most decidedly need to know the real best answer from our members. I believe people often change their vote, at times, completely, after further discussion and round one, yielding a greater worth to an election, more accurately measuring desires of the people. This election didn't yield that, in my opinion; it prevented it. Secondly, preferential balloting makes it more difficult to bring in the fold of lesser candidates for the common good, following an election. I have come to understand, of elections, long before this one, this is a necessary part of the political "healing" process required to forge future alliances for good, those that move polity out of the "graveyard" so the skeletons can be bleached in the sun and we can move forward. In politics, as in much of life, psychologically, we are still "hedonistic calculators." We make decisions as human beings, very much on the basis of our personal integral calculus. This hurts so much we either want more or we don't; a little less or more and see how much less or more we hurt. That is the pinnacle of human existence, the thing that best separates us from other animals, and, in fact, from some of the most animalistic of the human race itself! Preferential voting deprives us of this human need. Now, again, in the below here, do *NOT* interpret what follows as sour grapes. It is not. It is a very genuine attempt to use the results of the ballot to really show just how bad the issue of Bob's way of doing things is hurting FidoNet and what absolutely must be addressed to plan for Fido for the future, if, as I see it, we are to survive. In the best analysis I can make, of the people whom DID vote for more than one candidate, somewhat per the format, the following is Bob Kohl's final position - the *LAST* person any voter wanted to see run things: FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 10 2 Mar 1998 53 of those voters ranked Bob Kohl dead last. 9 of those voters ranked Mike Luther dead last. Of course, irrespective of a #2 choice only, chuckle! But wait! When the voters *DID* cooperate *FULLY* with the format, Messr. Kohl was in the unadmirable position of being disliked so damned badly that he was, in the case of the 78 voters that were good enough to rank all of the candidates... even WORSE off: 42 of 78 such candidates who really knew what they wanted, or 53% told us *EXACTLY* what is wrong with FidoNet. 2 of 78 such candidates who really knew what they wanted, or 3% put the #2 candidate in that unenviable place. We see a perfect example why we shouldn't use this form of preferential balloting here, in my opinion. Because the fallacy of permitting a one vote-level ballot, or a repetitive same vote ballot was allowed in the count, it hid, "If my candidate is really that bad, whom do I wish to suffer under the least?" How? It hid the real ripoff of this election for FidoNet! Most importantly, the real ripoff of this experiment is that 21% or 65 voters were deprived of voicing their *ALTERABLE* opinions in a run off! Those 65 votes could have swung this election wildly either way, folks. That is why it may never be clear to anyone, what might have happened, had folks been given a chance to vote the way they wanted to vote, the way they are comfortable in voting and the way in which they could have best given in service to FidoNet! In making appointments on what we did here, we may never best make them now, simply because of the ballot format! I stated in the comment in the election process, that the most divisive issues always focus closer and closer to one vote wins, or losses. What this election cost the opportunity to determine, for FidoNet, because of the way the ballot was set up, was a real opportunity, for the amount of time invested on the part of all. We lost a real handle on just how close or far we are to what will be needed to carry us forward. What we really lost, was the ability to best determine, whether what Bob Kohl or Mike Luther stands for will kill us, or carry us into the future. We really settled nothing about the divisions of leadership in Fido that are the single most important thing we *MUST* fix to best keep Fido alive and guarding the dog house for us all. To really understand what is needed, we needed *ALL* six vote steps from *EVERYONE*, or at worst, have a reasonable majority of those in FidoNet whom did vote do that! I hope an awfully good chance to really look at what is needed for FidoNet is not thrown away. If I were Bob Satti, I would invite anyone whom wanted to fill in the rest of the ballot to do so, netmail him the results. Then he should FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 11 2 Mar 1998 act accordingly. The fate of Fido is too important for any less, I opine. The deal you do not investigate is always the deal you lose and this has nothing to do with who "won" or "lost" this race. :) Mike @ 117/3001 ### 30 ### --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 12 2 Mar 1998 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= IP FidoNet in Region 33 by Marco d'Itri [Editor's Note: This IP Nodelist segment was _well_ beyond the 70-character limit required for FidoNews production. If you plan to use this IP Nodelist, remove the extraneous spaces beforehand. -zf- ] ;A manually generated R33 IP extended nodelist Zone,2,Europe_&_more,Belgium,Ward_Dossche,32-3-4480880, 9600,CM,XX,U,K12,Z19 Region,33,Italy,I,Mario_Mure',39-931-833773, 9600,V34,XX,CM,MO,U,Z19,ENC Pvt,505,Agnese,Mario_Mure',-Unpublished-, U,#,INET,agnese.fidoitalia.net,33.6K,RAW,IFC,BND,TELN ; Host,331,Alberto_Network,Mantova_I,Maurizio_Andreoli,39-376-364001, 9600,CM,XA,V34,U,X75 Host,332,Italia_Centro_Nord,Bologna,Mario_Battacchi,39-51-6236527, 9600,CM,XA,H16,V32T,VFC,V34,U,X75 Hub,800,Quasar_HUB,La_Spezia,Roberto_Mascolo,39-187-750175, 9600,CM,XA,V34,VFC,#,INET,195.120.155.157,0,BND ,806,Quasar,La_Spezia,Thomas_Capasso,39-187-23155, 9600,CM,XA,V34,VFC,U,X75,U,#,INET,195.120.155.157,0,BND ,807,Quasar_II,La_Spezia,Roberto_Mascolo,39-187-750175, 9600,CM,XX,V34,U,X75,U,#,INET,195.120.155.157,0,BND ,801,Banana's,Parma,Nicola_Lottici,39-521-941845, 9600,CM,XA,V34,VFC,U,#,INET,bananas.netsis.it,128K,BND Host,335,Italia_Centro_Sud,Taranto_I,Gaetano_Ble',39-931-833773, 9600,V34,XX,CM,MO,U,Z19,ENC ,437,Connecting_BBS,Perugia,Francesco_Marozzi,39-75-5140631, 9600,CM,XA,V34,V42B,#,INET,os2.iw0qmn.ampr.org,0,BND,TELN ,626,Car_Systems_Service,Montesilvano_Spiaggia_PE_I, Lorenzo_Di_Blasio,39-85-4492408,9600,CM,XA,V34,V42B, U,#,INET,stevens.alicom.org,64K,BND,TELN,VMP ,680,Eagle's_Nest,Montesilvano_Spiaggia_PE_I,Stefano_Brandimarte, 39-85-4455650,9600,CM,MO,V34,V42B, U,#,INET,tella.alicom.org,64K,BND,RAW,IFC,TELN,FTP, #,EMAIL,fido-vmailer@tella.alicom.org,UUE ,705,The_Ghost_Multisystem,Bari,Gianni_Medusa,39-80-5023688, 9600,CM,XA,V32B,V42B,VFC,U,#,INET,ghostbbs.pandora.it,0,TELN,VMP -- ciao, Marco d'Itri ### 30 ### ------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 13 2 Mar 1998 A Summation [Editor's note: I have been asked to place this into the Snooze by several individuals who see it as being of general interest to FidoNet at large. The opinions contained within are wholly my own and do not necessarily reflect the editorial policy within the FidoNews itself. Comments/responses welcomed. -zf- ] ===================================================================== * Original In : Z1_ELECTION * Original To : John Souvestre, 1:396/1 * Original From: Zorch Frezberg, 1:205/1701 * Original Date: Feb 18 17:18 In a msg on , John Souvestre of 1:396/1 writes to Zorch Frezberg: ZF>> If you wish to deny that John has made significant efforts ZF>> to attempt to influence or force a change in Region 10 ZF>> without the consent of the majority of the sysops here, ZF>> feel free to do so. JS> Zorch, you are one of the largest hypocrites I've ever seen. JS> You claim to be for "free speech" - but only as long as it JS> isn't critical of you. Do I? Hmmmm...perhaps it's because I believe free speech works _both_ ways. I believe that is the part of my claim that you don't seem to understand. Part of 'free speech' is the right to _disagree_, something you tend not to tolerate too well. JS> The only change I've worked for in R10 is to give SysOps a say JS> in who there C and ECs are. Finally, a clear admission. You have been working in Region 10 to interfere with the process already in place. JS> Indeed, to make these title subject to the consent of the majority of the JS> SysOps - not the other way around. The majority of SysOps, or the majority of those who participate? An important distinction here, John...could you please clarify it? JS> Your only interest in supporting democracy is when you don't like JS> the current leader. Let me ask you a specific question, then, John...when Bruce Bodger put his hat in the ring for the Z1C post last, did you support him? Did you support Bruce because you supported democracy, or because you don't like Satti as Z1C? JS> That's a very shortsighted view, one which you will certainly FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 14 2 Mar 1998 JS> live to regret. I doubt it, John...that's a fundamental principle of any government, democracy or otherwise. The power elite always does what it can to insure that it remains in the control of the societal macrocosm. The "13 Old Men in Geneva" or the "Illuminati" are archetypes of that structure, though the more correct and proper power elite are the holding companies which provide the financial support for industry, and thus the economy. In Britain and the US, and to a large extent most English-speaking nations, that power structure is the insurance/pension industry which is heavily invested. In Asia, particularly Japan, and some of the so-called Lowland Countries in Europe, that structure is the banking industry. If anyone were to threaten their ability to dominate and influence the power structure, then the organic model of governmental theory comes to light...the 'system' reacts as a 'living being' and does what it can to repel the 'threat', up to and including damaging itself as necessary. Or, if you will, like the various species of lizard, the 'system' will be willing to lose a leg or a tail if it insures continued survival. The dynamic questions present in FidoNet currently are whether the sysops are reacting to the overt control expressed by the *C structure as well as the growing monopolization of the control of echomail/file distributions, or if it is the *C/*EC structure reacting to both mollify the sysops and protect itself from being overwhelmed by the echomail distribution system's growning influence over FidoNet operations, or if it is the effort of the echomail distribution to bring about a change in the societal understanding of cooperation between the various levels of FidoNet by incurring a larger influence on the events of sysop connectivity, inter-network distribution (between nets, Regions, and Zones, as well as between the various smaller distributions) as well as attempting to insure that a sufficient income is available to offset the costs of echomail distribution as much as is economically feasible. At this point in time, it appears that the echomail distribution services (EDS) is taking it in the shorts, and that the *C/*EC structure is ganging up on it with the cooperation of the sysops. The net result of this will either be that the EDS will shut down, leaving a vacuum for the smaller distributions to move into, or the EDS will finally look to the reasons *why* this point in time has been reached, and how it got there...the key factor will be if it can look _past_ the personalities involved, and truly _examine_ the issues rather than casting blame on anyone who happens to disagree with it (see above, your comments and mine on "free speech"). The end result will be that FidoNet will become a close-knit, almost incestuous group that will dwindle down to nothing for fear that FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 15 2 Mar 1998 'cooperation' and 'philanthropy' will be considered signs of weakness, or FidoNet will figure out that no _one_ group can control the whole...and that all parts need to cooperate openly and clearly, without resorting to the "Me! Mine!" mentality that leads to the previous. Or, total order and total anarchy. Without the breaking of the pattern, those are the two futures that FidoNet faces. One person/ group overwhelmingly controls it, micromanaging it to death; the other disregards any and all rules and works "at the moment". Your reactions and response fit into the classic patterns that most any student of governance and governmental structures can see. Lots of laymen, too. Your stated objectives may be noble-sounding, but your actions and efforts say far more about your agenda than what you wish others to believe. To wit: JS> The only change I've worked for in R10 is to give SysOps a say in JS> who there C and ECs are. That you are _making_ an effort and doing it _in_ any Region is a clearer indication of your goals than anything else could possibly display. Your otherwise noble statement of wishing the SysOps the ability to choose their own leadership is belied by the effort you've made to cast aspersions and doubts on the ability of Bob Kohl to do his job, and repeated comments on how an election needs to be held, when there hasn't been any 'popular support' or 'groundswell of discontent' to back it up. There is dissent...if there were not, then I would be one of the first to complain, if for no other reason than to _provide_ that dissent. But there is no reason to not allow _response_ to that dissent, regardless of how it is phrased....again, refer back to the comment of "free speech" at the beginning. JS> You spend the majority of your time attacking personalities JS> rather than debating the issues. You have a small mind. Not at all, John. No matter what happens, it will always boil down to personal matters...after all, that's what "free choice" is about. In many cases, the issues being discussed are beyond, above or irrelevant to what is on the minds of most of the readers here. In others, the issues are occulted by lesser discussions that _seem_ more important but are irrelevant. It ends up leaving those who would be involved to either throw up their hands in frustration (the majority response) or to delve into the issues and understand the dynamics involved. FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 16 2 Mar 1998 In this case, you apparently don't want a ZEC who will act against _your_ wishes, even if it is for the *betterment* of FidoNet _overall_. You apparently don't even want the _possibility_ of such a ZEC coming to power. Unlike yourself, however, I see where decisions may be made like that which I won't agree with, either...but I can see beyond myself, and look to the betterment of the group _as_a_whole_. You and I are only two small _parts_ of a larger mechanism. Our independence of action is solely based on how we wish to interact with the whole, not just _parts_ of the whole. If you want _total_ individuality, then you shouldn't be in an association of cooperating individuals. JS> Chris Baker pegged you well. Perhaps he did. Didn't seem to indicate this when we discussed matters after the weekend just past. Or are you simply exhibiting poor taste again in bringing up Chris' name at this time? Either way, John, is there now any point in contacting you about hatching the FidoNews into distribution as Chris said to, if your opinion of me is so low? Or are you going to take the 'far view' as I do, and do it for the overall benefit of FidoNet itself? Your call. The issue goes out Sunday at or about 1800 Pacific time. -zf- --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 17 2 Mar 1998 ================================================================= TRUE STORIES OF FIDONET ================================================================= The "Larry (Larry-bud) Jaster" story... by Jack Sargent, 1:379/12 In April of 1997, we finally caught up with the infamous anal retentive, Charles Wharton, alias Jaster or "larry-bud," who had literally plagued a number of Fido echoes, including UFO for several years. As it happened, a friend, Pat Parrinello was attending his web site when Charles Wharton "signed in," and proceeded to leave behind his foul vulgarisms of an anal-retentive nature. Pat monitored the situation and also notified Don Allen, a past moderator of UFO, and long-time victim of Mr. Wharton. Pat and Don then notified me of the incident and furnished me with "Larry-bud's" address. Here is the story, told in a series of e-mail exchanges between "Larry-bud" and myself. Note his tone in the beginning compared to his demeanor at the end. ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:25) Number: 343 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 1 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ufo1 Full-Name: Jack P Sargeant To: cwharton@pdq.net Fcc: Sent Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:33:21 Subject: You Message-ID: <19970413.143215.4655.0.ufo1@juno.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 I often wondered what I would say to you if given the chance. All I can come up with for now is... ...WHY? Jack Sargeant, Moderator - UFO --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 18 2 Mar 1998 BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:26) Number: 344 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 2 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "cwharton" Received: from x7.boston.juno.com (x7.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.24]) by m12.boston.juno.com (8.6.13/8.7.Alpha.4/1.34.kim) with ESMTP id PAA09842 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:36:25 -0400 Received: from mailserv.cybersim.com (MAILSERV.CYBERSIM.COM [204.145.251.222]) by x7.boston.juno.com (8.6.13/8.7.Alpha.4/1.34.kim) with SMTP id PAA18838 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:36:25 -0400 Received: from mailserv.cybersim.com by mailserv.cybersim.com (NTMail 3.02.10) with ESMTP id ja554043 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:43:15 -0500 Return-path: cwharton@pdq.net Reply-To: To: "Jack P Sargeant" Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:28:52 -0500 Subject: Re: You Message-ID: <19431533129816@cybersim.com> X-Status: Replied X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 First of all, I never left any messages that Don Allen is referring to. I have discussed this with the person complaining about messages on his Internet page, and have informed my provider that, if the messages came from my provider, then I want to know from whom. So do they. Second, if it is so that Don Allen, or someone, left libelous messages on various computer discussion groups, then that is a job for a lawyer on Monday morning. Third, as this flurry of messages was going out, someone, probably the culprit, left a message with my Internet address, that was forwarded to me on a Usenet group, containing some libelous material. That has also been retrieved by my provider and they have the means to track exactly where it came from and from whom. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:27) Number: 345 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 3 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ufo1 FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 19 2 Mar 1998 Full-Name: Jack P Sargeant To: chuckx@geocities.com Cc: dona@totcon.com Fcc: Sent Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:59:15 Subject: Re: You Message-ID: <19970413.195821.4655.2.ufo1@juno.com> References: <19431533129816@cybersim.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 On Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:28:52 -0500 "cwharton" writes: >First of all, I never left any messages that Don Allen is referring >to. I have discussed this with the person complaining about messages >on his Internet page, and have informed my provider that, if the >messages came from my provider, then I want to know from whom. So do >they. >Second, if it is so that Don Allen, or someone, left libelous >messages on various computer discussion groups, then that is a job >for a lawyer on Monday morning. >Third, as this flurry of messages was going out, someone, probably >the culprit, left a message with my Internet address, that was >forwarded to me on a Usenet group, containing some libelous >material. That has also been retrieved by my provider and they have >the means to track exactly where it came from and from whom. > The information I have is, you were caught in the act of writing an obscene message, because your provider was brought on-line as you were typing. ...And traced the call back to... ...You! This looks like a no-win situation for you, so why not just say you're sorry and get on with your life? Jack Sargeant, victim --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:27) Number: 346 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 4 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "cwharton" Received: from m15.boston.juno.com (m15.boston.juno.com FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 20 2 Mar 1998 [205.231.100.192]) by m12.boston.juno.com (8.6.13/8.7.Alpha.4/1.34.kim) with ESMTP id UAA22817 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:53:27 -0400 Received: from mailserv.cybersim.com (MAILSERV.CYBERSIM.COM [204.145.251.222]) by m15.boston.juno.com (8.6.13/8.7.Alpha.4/1.34.kim) with SMTP id UAA15979 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:53:26 -0400 Received: from mailserv.cybersim.com by mailserv.cybersim.com (NTMail 3.02.10) with ESMTP id oa554646 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:00:20 -0500 Return-path: cwharton@pdq.net Reply-To: To: "Jack P Sargeant" Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:47:01 -0500 Subject: Re: You Message-ID: <01002057833566@cybersim.com> X-Status: Replied X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 >> The information I have is, you were caught in the act of writing >> an obscene message, because your provider was brought on-line as >> you were typing. ...And traced the call back to... ...You! >> This looks like a no-win situation for you, so why not just say >> you're sorry and get on with your life? >I won't say anything more except this information is wrong, I wrote >no such message, and that as owner of the Fidonet echo where someone >posted libelous information to the contrary, you appear to be >willingly providing a forum for this libel. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:28) Number: 347 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 5 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ufo1 Full-Name: Jack P Sargeant To: chuckx@geocities.com Cc: dona@totcon.com Fcc: Sent Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:18:49 Subject: Re: You Message-ID: <19970413.231751.4655.1.ufo1@juno.com> References: <01002057833566@cybersim.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 On Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:47:01 -0500 "cwharton" writes: FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 21 2 Mar 1998 >> The information I have is, you were caught in the act of writing >> an obscene message, because your provider was brought on-line as >> you were typing. . ..And traced the call back to... ...You! >> This looks like a no-win situation for you, so why not just say >> you're sorry and get on with your life? >I won't say anything more except this information is wrong, I wrote >no such message, and that as owner of the Fidonet echo where someone >posted libelous information to the contrary, you appear to be >willingly providing a forum for this libel. It is YOUR hand that's been caught in the till! I am willing for you to pursue this issue to its climax, so go ahead with your legal options. Hell, man, I'm the victim here, not you! You had better be prepared to prove you were not within miles of your computer when the obscene material was posted (on a number of occasions) to Pat's website. All I want from you (at present) is 1. Your apology. 2. Your promise to cease from posting anal retentive, obscene, thilthy messages into my echo. You do that, and I won't sue your ass off! Do you understand that, mister? You enter my echo with your real name and apologize, it's that simple. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:29) Number: 348 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 6 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ufo1 Full-Name: Jack P Sargeant To: cwharton@pdq.net Cc: dona@totcon.com Fcc: Sent Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:27:18 Subject: Well? Message-ID: <19970415.002623.4655.1.ufo1@juno.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 You haven't told me what you intend to do, so the wheels are in motion. 2 more of your accounts have surfaced... Your "PLOON" acct, and the one on Flash.net. Strange that "Jaster" has found his way onto all 3 of these accounts of yours. I want that apology, and I want it within 48 hours, or else your next alias will be MUDD! Your server has agreed to assist us in this matter, to avoid further FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 22 2 Mar 1998 complications. Maybe YOU think you can bluff your way out of this, but the evidence is in. You've had it, and the best thing you can do is admit to it, or face the consequences. ...And you have the nerve to threaten me with a libel action! Har! Have at it "Larry bud," you're on! --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:29) Number: 349 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 7 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ufo1 Full-Name: Jack P Sargeant To: pparri@sat.net Subject: ufo1: Re: Explanation X-Status: New --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: ufo1 To: cwharton@pdq.net Cc: dona@totcon.com Subject: Re: Explanation Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:52:48 Message-ID: <19970415.125145.4655.0.ufo1@juno.com> References: <33537F23.5A9E@pdq.net> On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:14:11 -0500 cwharton writes: >I don't have an e-mail account with the name ploon and I have never >used the provider flash.net, but after I was given evidence that >abusive messages came to Pat Parrinello from my provider, I >expressed the belief to him, my provider and now to you that my >account had been hacked by an individual, probably at one of these >other accounts you uncovered. > If you or anyone else is in touch with my provider and they are > giving out this information, they will confirm that I do not own > these accounts and do not compensate them for them. > I had an easy password to hack and have since had the provider > change it when I reported the illegal use of my account. However, > since Pat's evidence shows that my account was used for at least > some of the abuse, I suppose because of a too-simple password that > I have always used on-line, I have told him that I am sorry for > this and I have to bear responsibility for that. I extend to > everyone my regret for any attacks or unhappiness that anyone has > suffered by these messages. FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 23 2 Mar 1998 > This is the information that is available to your provider when you use your account: The account name. The phone number. The address the phone is located at. The type of computer by brand and size (from internally encrypted information) i e: Mac, IBM, IBM clone, desktop, portable, etc. Not all of this information has been made available to us, and won't be until ordered by a federal judge presiding over FCC regulation infractions. (Read the first 3 pages in your phone book, or those that apply to obscenity laws.) Establishing your guilt or innocence is not a problem, as you can plainly deduce. ...Should charges be brought forth (not entirely my decision), it becomes an open and shut case, and damages will be awarded. Your wife Sharon will know you for a maggot. Your church will excommunicate you. ...Yet you brazenly still deny wrong doing. Once a judge demands the information from your provider(s), the attorneys will make their decisions (usually determined on the financial worth of the defendant). You know how lawyers are. You have a little over 24 hours to decide what to do about my demands for a public apology (provided the others involved haven't changed their minds and are seeking independent counsel). You're really out of time >now< because it's going to take longer than that for your note to show up on my conference. I don't want your money. You don't have enough to alter my resources by much. ...But I do want your >public apology<. Your next reply may alter your entire life, "Larrybud." --------- End forwarded message ---------- --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:30) Number: 350 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, 8 of 8 Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ufo1 Full-Name: Jack P Sargeant To: cwharton@pdq.net Cc: dona@totcon.com Subject: Re: Explanation References: <33537F23.5A9E@pdq.net> <19970415.125145.4655.0.ufo1@juno.com> FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 24 2 Mar 1998 <3353C5C8.7305@pdq.net> On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:15:36 -0500 cwharton writes: >>you're really out of time >now< because it's going to take longer >>than that for your note to show up on my conference. I don't want >>your money. >>You don't have enough to alter my resources by much. ...But I do >>want your public apology. > I don't have access to FidoNet any longer, Jack, and haven't for >several years so I cannot enter any message into your echo, but you >are welcome to enter this one. As I've told you I am deeply sorry >for any messages coming from my account which offended or hurt >anyone and, as I explained to Pat Parrinello and my provider, I have >taken necessary steps to ensure that this will never occur again. > I see! Well, I'm not sure what I'm going to do next, but this note and its predecessors will be posted in their entirety on Fido UFO, and will probably be cross-posted to other echoes as well. Jack Sargeant, moderator - UFO cc Don Allen, Pat Parrinello --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- Charlotte, NC (1:379/12) ===================================================================== BBS: The Transporter Room Date: 04-15-97 (15:44) Number: 351 From: JACK SARGEANT Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Larry Jaster, follow up Conf: (442) Recr: Ufo --------------------------------------------------------------------- As you can see, folks, Mr. Wharton starts out rather brazen, and makes inuendos about taking legal action. ...But as the communiques progress, his attitude changes... ...Not to one who has been falsely accused, as an innocent person would normally feel, but to one who sees the rope hanging on the gallows, waiting... ...And ends with his apology. Are these the replies of an innocent man? ...Or are they instead, the words of one who is fearful of the consequences of his actions for 3 years. You be the judge. My thanks to Pat Parrinello, his swift attentiveness, and his long-distant phone calls that helped bring this to our attention. ...Also thanks to Don Allen for gathering the initial information together, and presenting it to the echo in an informative, well put together package. FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 25 2 Mar 1998 If the transcripts of the dialogue between me and Charles Wharton seem a little repetitive, I did the best I could moving them from a WINDOWS environment into a series of text files that I could present to you here. Jack Sargeant, moderator - UFO ### 30 ### --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 26 2 Mar 1998 ================================================================= COORDINATORS CORNER ================================================================= Z1EC Election Results Zone 1 Echomail Coordinator Election Election Results as posted by the Election Coordinator In accordance with a directive from the Zone 1 Coordinator charging the Region Echomail Coordinator Council (RECC) with the task of organizing an election for Zone 1 Echomail Coordinator, the RECC selected an Election Coordinator (Martin Belcke) to conduct the election. Following the selection of the EC, the ground rules for the election were written, using input from the Sysops of Zone 1 and the RECC. The final draft of the election rules were approved by a vote of the RECC. The election coordinator then announced the time-frame as called for in the election rules. During the original time-frame set for the campaign period, a severe winter storm affect a large portion of Zone 1 and the campaign period was extended a week to accomadate those nodes affected by the storm. This was the only change made in the election process once started, and was within the rules of the election as the rules did not specify specific length of time for each phase of the election process, thus leaving some flexibility for unforseen circumstances, such as the storm. Of the estimated number of nodes in Zone 1 (6,000), only 316 nodes chose to participate in the Z1EC election process. This is around 5% of the total nodes in the Zone. Of the 344 nets in Zone 1, 111 nets were represented by at least one person voting from that net. This represents 32% of the total nets. Since there were more than 2 candidates, a process known as preferential balloting was used to eliminate the need for holding multiple elections between run-off candidates and to allow the casting of a single ballot, listing the candidates in order of preference. During each round of tallying the votes, the candidate listed first on the ballot was used as the 1st choice for that ballot, removing the names of any candidates that had been eliminated during any previous round tallying the ballots. If the 1st choice candidate was eliminated, the name was removed and the rest of the names moved up one position. If all names on a ballot were eliminated, the ballot was then also eliminated and the total number of valid ballots was reduced by the number of ballots eliminated. The total number of votes required to win was also adjusted in the same manner. The actual tallying of each round is listed after this synopsis of the election results. BAD BALLOTS: ============ There were 8 invalid ballots received. Ballots were required to contain certain information as per the election rules. If the FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 27 2 Mar 1998 ballot did not contain the required information, the ballot was an invalid ballot. The election coordinator was not required to notify a voter that the ballot was invalid, but I fealt it only right to notify the voter and allow the opportunity to re-send a valid ballot. Nine voters took advantage of this and re-sent the ballot with the required information. Ballots declared invalid and reasons are: Ballot 1 - Name of sender did not match name as listed in nodelist. Sender was notified, but did not respond. Ballot was declared invalid at close of voting. Ballot 2 - Name of sender did not match name as listed in nodelist. Sender was notified, but did not respond. Ballot was declared invalid at close of voting. Ballot 3 - Node number not listed in nodelist. Unable to notify sender as node is not listed. Ballot was declared invalid at close of voting. Ballot 4 - Name of sender did not match node number listed in nodelist. Sender was notified, but did not respond. Ballot was declared invalid at close of voting. Ballot 5 - Ballot did not contain any candidates name. Sender was notified and re-sent same ballot. Ballot was declared invalid at close of voting. Ballot 6 - Ballot received after the close of voting. Time stamp of netmail was prior to closing, but ballot was sent direct after the close of voting. Sender was notified via routed netmail. Ballot 7 - Ballot received after the close of voting. Time stamp of netmail was prior to closing, but ballot was sent direct after the close of voting. Sender was notified via routed netmail. Ballot 8 - Ballot received after the close of voting. Time stamp on ballot is after the close of voting. Sender was notified via routed netmail. Statistics of invalid ballots: Ballot 1 ML DC JB JG JS WD BK Ballot 2 JB Ballot 3 JB Ballot 4 BK Ballot 5 I abstain Ballot 6 BK JB DC Ballot 7 BK Ballot 8 WD Statistics of the election for those who like them are as follows: NOTE: Percentages rounded off. FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 28 2 Mar 1998 Overall Stats: Total Eligible Voters: 6,256 (Info provided by David Bowerman) Total Nodes Voting : 316 Percent of Eligible : 5% Total Nets : 344 Total Nets Voting : 111 Percent of Total Nets: 32% Votes Sent Via DIRECT NETMAIL : 182 58% Votes Sent Via ROUTED NETMAIL : 72 23% Votes Sent Via INTERNET E-MAIL : 62 19% Nodes Per Region Stats: Nets Per Region Stats: REG TOTAL VOTES PERCENT REG TOTAL VOTED PERCENT ============================ ========================== R10 549 61 11% R10 25 17 68% R11 755 39 5% R11 45 15 33% R12 713 26 4% R12 25 6 24% R13 979 62 6% R13 44 24 55% R14 318 10 3% R14 21 3 14% R15 339 7 2% R15 19 6 32% R16 378 7 2% R16 14 4 29% R17 662 30 5% R17 34 11 32% R18 983 26 3% R18 78 11 14% R19 580 47 8% R19 39 14 36% =================================================================== In Round 1 of the tallying, the breakdown is REGION MOST VOTES TO MOST VOTES PER NET ====== ============= ================== 10 BK BK 49 11 BK ML 21 12 ML DC 14 13 JB TIED 12 14 JS JB 7 15 BK JS 5 16 JG JG 2 17 BK WD 1 18 BK ===== 19 ML TOTAL NETS 111 ROUND 1 RESULTS BALLOT STATISTICS: ================== Total Ballots Cast : 324 Total Invalid Ballots (See FOOTNOTE 2) : 8 ======= Total Beginning Number of Valid Ballots : 316 TALLYING RESULTS: ================ NOTE: A VALID BALLOT is any ballot that meets the ELIM = Eliminated election requirements and still has a valid FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 29 2 Mar 1998 candidate listed. ROUND ROUND ROUND ROUND ROUND ROUND 1 2 3 4 5 6 =========================================== Valid Ballots : 316 =========================================== Required to win : 159 =========================================== WAYNE DELISLE, SR 7 =========================================== DAVID CALAFRANSESCO 54 =========================================== MIKE LUTHER 72 =========================================== JEFF SMITH 26 =========================================== JIM BALCOM 31 =========================================== JOHN GLINSKI 9 =========================================== BOB KOHL 117 =========================================== PASSWORDS AND ASSOCIATED BALLOT =============================== 1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH 5TH 6TH 7TH ================================= (NO PASSWORD) DC JB _ABOUT_TIME_TOO_ BK <KASA> JG 10AACHENZEC BK WD JB JG ML JS DC 1326ELIZ BK DC JS ML JG JB WD 171HMB39 DC BK JB JG JS ML WD 18411 ML DC JG JS JB WD BK 349UIO DC JB 34U890890U ML JS 357LAWTOK ML JS DC WD JG 45048657 ML DC JB JG JS WD BK 5881TUBE BK 8890TAURUS ML 946253366 JG ML JS WD JB DC 9A701 DC JS ML JG WD JB BK A4M3O6R1C DC JB JS AAAPOST BK BK BK ACE5ACE5ACE BK AK322332 JS ML DC WD JG ALADDIN DC BK JB JS JG ML WD ALINCOLN2 ML JS DC WD AMORPHIS BK ANDROMEDA BK ANIMALS DC JS ML JG WD BK ANNAONE2 ML ATCHAFALAYA WD BK JB JG ML JS ATHENS BK ATLANTIS JS FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 30 2 Mar 1998 ATL_NC JS AUNIDIAL DC BK ML JB JS JG WD BANKER JB BASEMENT BK BEAR BK BK BK BIGWIG ML DC JB JG JS WD BK BINGLEJINGLE DC BKJSJBJGDC BK JS JB JG DC BLACKHOLE JB BK WD JG BLACK BK BLOSSOM ML BNSFDSF1 BK BOOGER ML DC JS WD JG BOOKS BK BR549369 DC JS ML BRAVO BK DC JG JS ML JB WD BTSVOTE JB DC BUBBLES ML DC JB JG JS WD BK BUGGYMUTHA ML DC JS WD JG BULLPEN ML DC JB JG JS WD BK BUM_RAP BK JB BUNNIES3 ML DC JB JG JS WD BK BURTONC ML BYTEHEAD DC JS ML CABINET BK CABLECAR ML DC JS WD JG BK CALADAN BK CAMPAIGN98 BK DC JB CANNONBALL JB CARIBOU BK JB DC JG ML JS WD CHEST JB DC CHRISTIAN JB CHUVEN JB CJ4681 JS CLAWSON JB DC CLMBBSOMNI BK CMBTARMS ML WD DC JB JG CORDLESS ML DC JB JG JS WD BK CREATIVE ML JG JB WD DC JS BK CRYPTIC JB CSID_HQ ML DC JB JG JS WD BK CYGNUSX1 ML DC BK D_P_S:4285 BK DARKSTAR ML JS DC WD JG JB DEI#3 BK DILLYGAF BK JG DIRECPC ML JG DC WD JS BK JB DOGGINIT ML DUFUS DC JS ML JG WD JB BK DUMPBOFAQ BK BK BK BK BK BK BK DUOFONEIXI JS DUQUEPHUQER BK BK BK BK BK BK BK E363 BK EAGLE JB EAGLE103 JS EDNAMG ML DC JB JG JS WD BK FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 31 2 Mar 1998 EILEEN BK ELECT1 BK JB JG ELMO JB DC EMAILJUNKY ML EPENDYMAL JB EREBUS ML JS JG DC WD EREVER DC JB ESUOHTUO BK JG JB JS EXEGETE JS FAIRVIEW DC FALLPON DC WD FARFROMIT JS DC ML JG WD FIDOELEC DC JS ML FIDOGATE BK FIREWATER BK FLACT ML DC JB JG JS WD BK FLAME_NOW BK JB FNEEP ML DC JB JG JS WD BK FOLLOWER JB FORVM JG FOXWOOD DC JS ML JG FRAMOUS DC ML JG JS JB WD FRANKY DC FROG BK JB FUNNY BK BK BK BK BK BK BK FUR_FACE WD DC JB JG ML JS BK FUTUREIC BK BK BK BK BK BK DC GANDALF BK GETTHEVOTE DC BK JS GLIMMERMAN BK JS JB WD JG DC ML GOBSMUSTGO BK GOJEFF JS GOKOHL BK GOLLY-GEE DC BK JG JB GOODLUCK DC JB GORP JB GRELBER DC BK ML WD JB JG (1) JS GRIM BK GRYPHON ML DC HAGGIE BK HAMILTON BK HAMMERBAND BK JB DC HATAMOTO JG DC BK ML HCS/ORCO BK JB WD ML JS JG DC HEREWEGO WD DC ML JB JG JS BK HEREWEGOAGAIN JS HERMAN BK HIDESYSOP ML JS DC WD HIMALC DC ML HISTORY ML JG DC BK WD JS JB HOSPITAL JB HURRICANE JB IBOGAINE ML DC JB JG JS WD BK IC3DE1612 JS ML JB DC WD JG BK IDOP0 BK JB WD DC ML JS JG IMAVOTIN ML JB FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 32 2 Mar 1998 IMPEACHCLINTON ML JS DC WD JG JB INVICTUS ML DC JG JS JB WD BK ISBBS DC JB ISRAEL BK IVOTED DC JS ML JG WD JB BK IZZAMYVZ BK JACLYN JS ML DC JG JED106-977 ML DC JSARGEANT WD JUSENKYO ML JS JG WD DC JUSTBOB BK JB DC JUSTDOIT ML KCUL_ON JG BK KEEP8088STR8 BK KEEPER JS DC ML WD JG JB KIYOTI ML KNOTKINGKOHL ML JS JG DC KUR-IR-BUMBA ML JS JG DC JB WD BK LADYBUG ML JS DC JG BK WD JB LASERMEAT BK LAURA WD BK DC JS ML JG JB LOSTPINES ML JS DC WD JG JB BK LUCENT/TECH DC JS ML JG WD JB BK LYONESSE BK MAGNUM JS ML DC JG MAJICALLY JB MARTIAN BK BK BK BK BK BK BK MARYLANDS ML MASTBLAST BK WD JB DC ML JS JG MAXIMAX JB MBJDJWJ_LKGCSDB ML BK JG DC JS WD JB MCDONALD BK MERTLAMY JG DC ML BK JS JB WD MESSAGE ML METALLICA BK DC JG JB MIDNIGHT DC JB JS ML JG WD BK MIDNIGHT15 DC MILESG ML DC JS WD MOMINCOL ML DC JS WD MONALOH DC JB BK ML MONETARY ML JS DC JG JB BK WD MONITOR BK BK BK BK BK BK BK MOONLIGHT DC JS ML JG WD JB BK MOUSE1 JB MTBMWITE JS ML DC WD JG JB MYOBMBZ1EMP DC WD ML BK JB JG JS MYSTI ML JS DC JG JB WD BK NAGANO BK JB NATURIST1 DC BK JB JG WD JS ML NECROMANCER JG NITRAM BK NMB8UIO BK NO_BACKBONE_WEENIES BK NOBOZODIPS ML DC JB NOKOHL JS DC NOMOREGOBS BK FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 33 2 Mar 1998 NONOTIME BK NOSPAMERS DC NOTDWAYNE BK NOVELL DC JB BK NOVEMBER BK BK BK BK NOWAYBK JS NUKEFROG DC JS ML NYRANGERS JB DC OAT66MAN BK OGNOLAZY BK JB DC WD ML JG JS OMMANIS ML DC JB JG JS WD BK ONEAGLE DC JB OS/400V3.4 BK JB WD DC JG ML JS OSCAR JS OSSBBS BK OUTLANDISH JS PA-5-NODE DC PACKARDS DC JS ML JG WD JB BK PARAMEDIC BK JB JS PASSTHISONE BK PASSWORD3073 BK DC PEANUT DC JS ML JG WD JB BK PEPPER01 WD DC ML JS JB JG BK PEPSI BK PICKLES ML WD PINKEROONIE DC PINKFLOYD BK PIONEER ML PLUSFOUR ML DC JS WD JG PONTOON DC JS ML JG WD JB BK PRIMESTAR BK PROGRAM BK PROMISE JB PT2716FL BK DC JB JS ML PUDDING ML JS DC WD JG JB QUICKIEP JB BK R80RT BK RABBIT3 JS ML (1) ML WD DC JG REACT BK REDSARAH ML DC JB JG JS WD BK REDWOLFPACK BK RFC832 BK RLEDC1 BK ROBERTA JS ML DC JG ROCKETSCIENCE DC JB ROGIER BK JB ML JS RONTOLDMETO ML ROSE DC ROSES! BK JB JG WD DC ML JS ROTTWEILER BK DC JB SAFE BK SAFETY22 JS SALMO BK SANE4REALITY DC JS JB BK WD ML JG SC2COUPE ML SCHLITZ JB FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 34 2 Mar 1998 SCHWARTZ JG SCORPIUS ML DC JG JS SCREWS BK JB WD ML DC JG SCYLLA WD BK DC JB JG ML JS SEATREND DC SERAMANDIAS JG DC BK SEYCHELLES JB DC SHEEPDIP ML DC JB JG JS WD BK SIG2VOTE JB SIGMAONE BK JS SIGNAL ML JS BK SIKMY ML DC JB JG JS WD BK SILLINESS BK SIMBA ML SNERDLY BK SOLIDROCK BK SOYLENT BK DC JS SPACEACE DC SPECIFIC BK WD SPITZBARTH DC JS WD ML JB JG SQUIRT ML DC JB JG JS WD BK SSBEER JS DC BK STUPID JB DC SWALLOW BK BK BK BK BK BK BK SYBHAMGK JB TAXTIME DC JB TERRI BK TESLA001 BK TFS..1012 BK BK BK BK BK BK BK THE-FUTURE JS DC JB BK THEKING BK TICKLEFOOT DC JS ML JG WD JB BK TOADMAN BK TOMJLIVES BK BK BK BK BK BK BK TSKTSKTSK DC JB JS ML JG WD BK TURKEY ML JG DC BK UPTOLATE ML JS WD DC USAA DC ML JS JG USAGIYO JB BK DC VALHALLA JB VERYLATE BK DC JS VETBBS5 BK BK BK VIKINGS BK JS DC ML WD JB JG VILLAGE DC JB BK VULGAR32 BK JB W2KIN2000 BK WARBOND JS WARLORD BK JB WARP3MRSULU BK ML JS WHERE BK WILDCARD BK JB DC WILKEN ML DC JB JG JS WD BK WOLFHYB JB WOMBAT ML JG DC WD JS BK JB WONDERBUNNY JB WOOFWOOF BK FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 35 2 Mar 1998 WOTMEWORRY DC WPETSUCH BK WYSIWYGOUT BK BK BK YEAR2000 ML DC JB JG JS WD BK ZABBADO BK ZAJADICI ML DC JB JG JS WD BK ZELAZNEY BK JB DC JS ZZYZX123 JS ML BK DC ========================= END OF BALLOTS =========================== FOOTNOTES: (1) Invalid candidate listed (2) An INVALID BALLOT was a ballot received that did not contain the information as required by the election rules. Any person that cast such a ballot was sent a netmail (or e-mail) message informing them that their ballot was invalid and given the opportunity to re-send the ballot with the required information. If the person did not re-send the ballot with the required information, then the ballot was declared invalid at the close of the voting period. An INVALID BALLOT was also a ballot received that was sent after the voting deadline. For the purpose of routed netmail ballots, the time the ballot entered the routing stream (first via line) is the time of the ballot. ==================================================================== In Round 2 of the tallying, the breakdown is REGION MOST VOTES TO MOST VOTES PER NET ====== ============= ================== 10 BK BK 50 11 BK ML 21 12 ML DC 14 13 JB TIED 12 14 JS JB 7 15 BK JS 5 16 JG JG 2 17 BK ===== 18 BK 111 19 ML ROUND 2 RESULTS BALLOT STATISTICS: ================== Total Ballots Cast : 324 Total Invalid Ballots (See FOOTNOTE 2) : 8 ======= Total Beginning Number of Valid Ballots : 316 TALLYING RESULTS: ================ NOTE: A VALID BALLOT is any ballot that meets the ELIM = Eliminated election requirements and still has a valid FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 36 2 Mar 1998 candidate listed. ROUND ROUND ROUND ROUND ROUND ROUND 1 2 3 4 5 6 =========================================== Valid Ballots : 316 315 =========================================== Required to win : 159 158 =========================================== WAYNE DELISLE, SR 7 ELIM =========================================== DAVID CALAFRANSESCO 54 57 =========================================== MIKE LUTHER 72 72 =========================================== JEFF SMITH 26 26 =========================================== JIM BALCOM 31 31 =========================================== JOHN GLINSKI 9 9 =========================================== BOB KOHL 117 120 =========================================== PASSWORDS AND ASSOCIATED BALLOT =============================== 1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH 5TH 6TH 7TH ================================= (NO PASSWORD) DC JB _ABOUT_TIME_TOO_ BK <KASA> JG 10AACHENZEC BK JB JG ML JS DC 1326ELIZ BK DC JS ML JG JB 171HMB39 DC BK JB JG JS ML 18411 ML DC JG JS JB BK 349UIO DC JB 34U890890U ML JS 357LAWTOK ML JS DC JG 45048657 ML DC JB JG JS BK 5881TUBE BK 8890TAURUS ML 946253366 JG ML JS JB DC 9A701 DC JS ML JG JB BK A4M3O6R1C DC JB JS AAAPOST BK BK BK ACE5ACE5ACE BK AK322332 JS ML DC JG ALADDIN DC BK JB JS JG ML ALINCOLN2 ML JS DC AMORPHIS BK ANDROMEDA BK ANIMALS DC JS ML JG BK ANNAONE2 ML ATCHAFALAYA BK JB JG ML JS ATHENS BK ATLANTIS JS FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 37 2 Mar 1998 ATL_NC JS AUNIDIAL DC BK ML JB JS JG BANKER JB BASEMENT BK BEAR BK BK BK BIGWIG ML DC JB JG JS BK BINGLEJINGLE DC BKJSJBJGDC BK JS JB JG DC BLACKHOLE JB BK JG BLACK BK BLOSSOM ML BNSFDSF1 BK BOOGER ML DC JS JG BOOKS BK BR549369 DC JS ML BRAVO BK DC JG JS ML JB BTSVOTE JB DC BUBBLES ML DC JB JG JS BK BUGGYMUTHA ML DC JS JG BULLPEN ML DC JB JG JS BK BUM_RAP BK JB BUNNIES3 ML DC JB JG JS BK BURTONC ML BYTEHEAD DC JS ML CABINET BK CABLECAR ML DC JS JG BK CALADAN BK CAMPAIGN98 BK DC JB CANNONBALL JB CARIBOU BK JB DC JG ML JS CHEST JB DC CHRISTIAN JB CHUVEN JB CJ4681 JS CLAWSON JB DC CLMBBSOMNI BK CMBTARMS ML DC JB JG CORDLESS ML DC JB JG JS BK CREATIVE ML JG JB DC JS BK CRYPTIC JB CSID_HQ ML DC JB JG JS BK CYGNUSX1 ML DC BK D_P_S:4285 BK DARKSTAR ML JS DC JG JB DEI#3 BK DILLYGAF BK JG DIRECPC ML JG DC JS BK JB DOGGINIT ML DUFUS DC JS ML JG JB BK DUMPBOFAQ BK BK BK BK BK BK BK DUOFONEIXI JS DUQUEPHUQER BK BK BK BK BK BK BK E363 BK EAGLE JB EAGLE103 JS EDNAMG ML DC JB JG JS BK FIDONEWS 15-09 Page 38 2 Mar 1998 EILEEN BK ELECT1 BK JB JG ELMO JB DC EMAILJUNKY ML EPENDYMAL JB EREBUS ML JS JG DC EREVER DC JB ESUOHTUO BK JG JB JS EXEGETE JS FAIRVIEW DC FALLPON DC FARFROMIT JS DC ML JG FIDOELEC DC JS ML FIDOGATE BK FIREWATER BK FLACT ML DC JB JG JS BK FLAME_NOW BK JB FNEEP ML DC JB JG JS BK FOLLOWER JB FORVM JG FOXWOOD DC JS ML JG FRAMOUS DC ML JG JS JB FRANKY DC FROG BK JB FUNNY BK BK BK BK BK BK BK FUR_FACE DC JB JG ML JS BK FUTUREIC BK BK BK BK BK BK DC GANDALF BK GETTHEVOTE DC BK JS GLIMMERMAN BK JS JB JG DC ML GOBSMUSTGO BK GOJEFF JS GOKOHL BK GOLLY-GEE DC BK JG JB GOODLUCK